>reforming your changelings

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>>29941174
I have no problem at all with the fact that they were reformed. I just think that it was a bit rushed, like everything Haber writes.

But I think that the transformation was absolutely stupid and pointless. Thorax already proved that a changeling that looks like a changeling can be good, backpedaling and pretending that good changelings actually look different from bad changelings sends an awful message. Judge people by their appearance, kids, if they're good they will look like good people.

>>29941174
I liked them as they were
I don't like them as they look now
What's hard to understand?

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>>29941174
I loved it, and the teasers we've been getting so far hint at some changeling focused episodes that deal with their new society. That will be really cool.

>>29941174
It's just like the midachlorians or whatever they're called. Changelings were better when they were a mystery. Whatever the show can reveal about them is a disappointment compared to whatever we had autisted up.

In Canterlot Wedding, Chrysalis remarks that she's attacking Canterlot because she has to feed her drones. She did it out of necessity, same way a carnivore has to kill to survive. Tragic and interesting. But in the glimglam adventure episode she's shown as a tyrant keeping the drones in line through lies and threats, and it turns out changelings don't need to eat after all. And one dissenting changeling is enough to destroy the hive in an explosion of friendship. That's like a single jew destroying the USSR in an explosion of capitalism. And everyone's ushankas instantly convert to baseball caps.

It's shit.

I think the design itself is pretty silly, I also feel like it would have been better if the transformation had happened over a greater period of time, as opposed to literally occurring in an instant.

Limiting the transformation to a few small details, like Thorax's wings and maybe filling in their leg holes would have worked just as well while still maintaining their core identity. As it stands, it feels like the changlings have essentially transformed into an entirely difference race, which in turn leads to "green changling = good, black changling = evil" styles of thinking which seems totally counter to what episodes like "The Times They Are A Changeling" have said.

>>29941174
>So why's this a bad thing?
Shit execution. Concept isn't nearly as DOA as somee of the other things we've seen, but it was done really reaaly shitty.

We never even got an explanation as to why Thorax was a zero-testosterone bitch compared to the rest of his kind.

>>29941290
>>29941290
>We never even got an explanation as to why Thorax was a zero-testosterone bitch compared to the rest of his kind.
We did. Kill yourself, because you don't watch the show or you are literally autistic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB37d-JR0ik

I understand why it had to happen and I'm okay with it, even if I don't like it.

My problem is that the new design is eye-gougingly awful. I don't even want to look at the fuckers, though as an unrepentant bugfag, I'm admittedly biased.

>>29941302
>I was born different.
That's not a fucking explanation, that's a terrible copout.

I hope your family get murdered by bears.

>>29941318
He is basically the chosen one.
Like the mane 6 were the chosen ones.
>but that's retarded
Welcome to the whole plot of the show. Faust is a hax.

>>29941302
Legitimately surprised we didn't get some explanation regarding Dash's sonic rainboom fucking with Thorax's egg or something.

>>29941324
The mane6 actually had some foretelling. We never had a prophecy saying "the changelings turn good".

So fuck off and stop defending shit.

>>29941340
Because they are the main characters or were but Thorax is something weird and we don't know what his place is gonna be.

Changelings are basically North Koreans.

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>>29941290
>>29941302
>>29941318
>>29941324
>>29941340
>>29941349
>8 months since his episode
>still ZERO art of Thorax as Bug Jesus
pure suffering tbqh

>>29941250
I like that they have mud Chagelings so they can look down on something.

>>29941406
>Wee will never see his weird bug deer dick.

>>29941441
>deer
How the fuck do you think he is a deer? His new shape is based on those bugs that have horns, very strong ones, beetles.

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>>29941448
>Stag
>Beetle.
>STAG
>A hooved creature with antlers called a stag.

>>29941448
Stag beetle was named after a deer

>>29941302
I really hate his voice. It sounds like such a generic dork with a nasal voice. It's one of the animators isn't it?

>>29941538
His voice is like that because he is literally a defect.

>>29941437
They still have wings dude.

>>29941469
fuckin Tex
love that madman

he still hang out here?

>>29941250
huh, never noticed but theres 3 types of nulings.

beetles ones with no fucking wingtail and a cut in their shell(never seen one of them fly either), with a little double horn, which actually look decent.

then the really flat shelled ones with gems on their chest and spikey tipped horns, fuck those gay ass faggots.

lastly we have mini horned middle ground shelled ok-ish but still shit guys, fuck those wing tails seriously.

neat, but seems odd. id almost have to guess their gonna somehow relate to the ponies a bit. Wingless and tailess strong types, gems use better magic, tiny horns are better at flying or something.

i still dont like them at all.

>>29941250
I agree. I also am glad they didn't lose their ability to change their appearance. Redemption shouldn't come with a loss of power, unless it's an inherently evil one. I think that would send the wrong message.

I would be more happy with the change it at least some changelings were kept black and full of holes. Maybe half of them could have followed Chrysalis. Maybe Chryssie is currently popping out a new army of original changelings for the season finale

>>29941174
That they were reformed at all isn't a problem. Nobody was up in arms about Thorax when he first appeared, even if that episode was a bit rushed too.

The problem that people have is twofold:

>The change was instantaneous and complete
You're right - the show has never taught that people are inherently damned-from-birth. But the Changelings' "redemption" swung the complete opposite way, doing away with any and all further conflict stemming from both their appearance and predatory nature. This undermines the story in two ways: First, am I really supposed to believe that the Changelings never, ever in the entire history of their race ever thought to share before? That paints them as unbelievably moronic until the ubermensch ponies rolled in to show them The Right Way. Second, it effectively negates any potential for future stories: Changelings struggling between their nature and acceptance or fitting in with ponies - which could be very well done without re-treading Thorax's own territory - or desiring to follow Chrysalis, because she has literally nothing to offer them compared to bug jesus at this point.

>The change massively backpedaled on Thorax's story up until that point
His entire arc had been about coming to accept and improve yourself, and then this change comes in. The story gets wrenched around from "if you put in effort and willpower, you can overcome your weaknesses and improve yourself for the better" to "if you want it, life will spontaneously remake you to solve all your problems". The idea that you can not just be absolved of your problems but physically remade just by wanting it feels like a hollow one.

I - and while I hesitate to speak for every anon, quite a few people I've spoken to - would have been fine with Changeling redemption, so long as it came with conflict and effort, not a spontaneous rewrite that did away with the interesting facets of the buggers.

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>>29941279
>Changelings were better when they were a mystery.
The fuck are you talking about. Changelings were never a mystery. They were bug-like ponies that lived in a hive, disguised themselves as other ponies, and fed on emotions. Eating love left their victim feeling empty and them feeling full and powerful, but they get hungry again and need to feast on more love. They were an analogue for a succubus, or at the least a parasitic relationship.

The reformation did not "solve the mystery". It was worse than that. It was more like Anakin's relationship with Darth Vader, where the prequel showed us how Anakin was not cool, or dangerous, or smart. It totally undermined Darth Vader.

Changing the Changelings to where eating love was there detriment overrode everything anyone might have known or liked about them.

And in a nutshell, that's everyone's problem with everything lately. Ever new reveal is another disappointment that undermines something we used to like.

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>>29941174
Because of pic related; aside from their new designs looking terrible, their transformation was rushed, didn't make sense in context and throws a lot of more interesting worldbuilding and potential storylines out the window.

An entire race has been rewritten because one writer needed a way out of a creative corner for the season finale ending. Plus "black = bad, colors = good" is an incredibly lazy and cheesy trope. The comics had more respect for the changelings than this.

I will also freely admit that a part of the reason why I hate their transformation is that /mlp/ has come up with plenty of cute/feelsy stories over the years involving Chrysalis and her changelings, that were a hell of a lot better written than what we got.

Maybe this season will see Chrysalis get reformed and mutated into some pink Cadance-like creature, that'll piss off enough of the furries and fetishfags that like her to make the show writers take notice.

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>>29943677

>>29943711
Bring back Larson rrreeeeeeeeeeee

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Their reformation makes zero sense.
You cant have
>Literally no changeling apart from thorax ever decided to share love.
and
>Literally every single one of them decided to share love when prompted.
co-exist because it cheapens their intelligence, cheapens the entire concept of 'love' and cheapens their entire fucking existance.

Before this they ate love because it was literally their food, they had to eat regardless of how they felt about it, it opened the door to so many interesting stories and ideas about morality.
But now after this that door's been shut and the house has been set on fire, every changeling but thorax was bad but now every changeling but chrysalis is good hahahahahha pass the sugar bleach fellow horsebug.

>>29941305
The worst part is that the new design isnt actually that bad if they were going for "Fantasy Insect+Horse crossbreed.", it's literally just the colours ruining the whole thing.

>>29943677
>Maybe this season will see Chrysalis get reformed and mutated into some pink Cadance-like creature

I mean, there's no two ways around that, they fucking wrote themselves into a corner with this transformation bullshit, so if Chrysalis ever gets reformed continuity dictates that she'd also change appearance, and dear God I hope that never happens, because one of the things Chrysalis always had going for her was her already 10/10 design.
Pray she doesn't get the same treatment as Discord and almost all the other antagonists.
Pray that if she isn't written off, that she just gets lowered to ineffectual recurring villain.

>>29941174
I'm fine with reformation
Not fine with them turning into garrish eyesores

>>29941174
Because they were more interesting as predators and parasites. Because the instant heel-face turn was both disappointing and nonsensical. Because the mechanism of their reform, "just be nice bro :)", was so stupid and anticlimactic that it defies belief.

The overall concept of reformation is fine. It's the entirety of how they went about it (mechanisms, designs, etc.) that's the issue.

>>29943936
>I hope that never happens
Why? It doesn't matter anymore. You have to be crazy to still be emotionally invested in the characters or the setting. I kind of wish they'd go all the way and plunge into frothing incoherent madness.

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>>29941538
>It's one of the animators isn't it?
No, it's Kyle Rideout. He voiced the gecko from LPS.
He's a really nice guy.

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>>29942726
>>29943809
>why didn't the changelings ever think to share love before?
I get fucking triggered every time someone brings up this nonsense criticism. Sharing love is not what did it, Thorax shared love the entire time he was living in the Crystal Empire and all he got to show for it was a pair of glittery wings, and that's only because the Crystal Empire was filled with more love than anywhere in equestria.

Furthermore, even if none of them ever thought to share love, which is unlikely considering the changeling at Cranky and Matilda's wedding, it still wouldn't be a problem because they were all operating on a love deficit. You can't "share" what you don't fucking have.

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>>29942726
pretty much this. i absolutely loved how thorax was introduced. it was mature. it was great. this "im suddenly good now" bullshit was terrible.

not to mention their new designs eye sores, and theres no reason they had to physically change form at all. it should have stayed a political and nature dilemma.

>>29944955
>I get fucking triggered every time someone brings up this nonsense criticism.
In fairness, it's not clear what made all the changelings reform. They said it was something akin to sharing, though. I don't know why you're mad at us for saying that's what it is. Yes, it doesn't make sense, but we're not dumb for repeating what the show appears to have done.

>>29943677
>The comics had more respect for the changelings than this
nigga they were beaten by a pooper scooper

>>29945040
The difference is that Torax didn't just share his love, he gave it, all of it, unconditionally with no strings attached.

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>>29943809
I got the impression from the finale that none of the others were AGAINST the idea, but that they just deferred to Chrysalis (who was, incidentally).
They all seem pretty uncertain when Glimmer/Thorax make their case. Presumably it's a matter of the hivemind deferring to the queen and Thorax's mutation made him exempt
from her influence.

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>>29945040
I watched some Borg episodes of TNG because of horshow so it made perfect sense to me
they're connected by a group-mind. New ideas spread through the species like a virus.

>>29945192
BUG
JESUS

>>29945252
>they just deferred to Chrysalis
See, but we've confirmed that if the bugs give themselves over to love, they both become more powerful and they retain all their original abilities. Objectively speaking, Chrysalis has no reason to not give love.

What cause could she have? Pettiness? Revenge? What if she kills Glimmer? Would she accept friendship after her anger is sated? According to Twilight's fear of rogue changelings, it seems like there's nothing preventing them from still being evil dicks after the transformation.

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Consider the following:

Changelings are based off of eusocial hive insects, like bees or ants. They have one Queen, who directs the swarm and lays all the eggs, and many castes of asexual drones who do the work and soldiery. These insects are known for their cooperation and "altruism" in nature; they all work together, sacrificing themselves for their swarms and sharing food and living space. All the changeling canon from the show seems to support this.

The really obvious redemptive angle is to teach a lesson about tolerance (not sharing, they already do that among themselves!) by getting the changelings to integrate with, and coexist with, the ponies. Of course, this would require finesse and talent on the part of the writers, and we already saw how much trouble they had concluding Thorax's first episode.

IMO there's really no point in trying to theorycraft or make sense of the S6 finale. The story we got went off the rails in the last 5 minutes and now we're stuck in nonsense land. Apparently they're still called changelings, but they have a "king" (so are there any females? who makes the babies?) and now eat plant stuff (???) instead of love...but they're still shapeshifters who live in a creepy hive in the middle of nowhere. Making this all coherent would require some significant talent, or a major retcon, and I sincerely doubt we'll get either this season.

>>29944955
If you don't want to call it sharing love that's fine, but what would you call it then? The mechanics remain the same: He willingly gave up his internalized energy by choice.

The idea that if freely giving energies is all it takes to solve their issues with zero downsides, the idea that this was never before attempted in all of the buggers' history still falls flat to me. Furthermore, it sets up a huge logical paradox in its wake:
> If they shared openly before and understand the concepts of altruism and caring for their needy, then why has no bug jesus manifested before?
> If they did not, and literally every other changeling up until this point has been an utterly heartless bastard who never gave a drop of love to a hungry fellow bug, do they really deserve to be freed from all their problems instantaneously?

>>29942780
>Eating love left their victim feeling empty
>citation needed

>>29941174
Spike did fuck him

>>29944445
Chrysalis is one of the (admittedly very little) characters left which are actually good. She's one of the only if not the only character in the show right now who had an interesting enough character to say "fuck this friendship business". That's saying a lot of you consider all that has happened.

Also, implying non canon, but the comics also give her a really good backstory which doesn't necessarily conflict with the show. That's also one of the very little cases where the comics don't go on utterly insane tangential adventures which are still somewhat significant.

tl;dr in all mediums so far Chrysalis is one of the better if not the best character right now. You can't just give up hope for her yet, anon.

>>29947610
>comics also give her a really good backstory
You're not talking about the utterly retarded magic pinecones backstory, are you?
The one where they got their holes because Celestia shot them, and the one where they're an infertile race?

The one that clashes both with the established canon on almost every point?

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>>29945351
Far back as S2 I thought it was likely that she simply didn't know. Or rather didn't WANT to know. Gurl has a pretty aggressive personality. Maybe selflessness just sounded too retarded to be true to her. Plus she'd be down a lot of power & influence if it WERE true.
IIRC the episode supported that. When the protagonists propose that love can be accepted freely and the hordes start to look quizzical she butts right in with a THAT'S STUPID YOU'RE STUPID DIE NOW.

>>29947750
>>29947610
Also it'd explain her butthurt when she saw that she was wrong. She & her people had been suffering this long because of her own false presumptions. That's a lot of bitterness to take in instantaneously. So in the midst of her confusion she lashed out & put all the blame on the the pones.

>>29944445
>I kind of wish they'd go all the way and plunge into frothing incoherent madness.
Is it a consolidation to tell you that this fandom has already done that.

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>>29944445
>>29947843
Is it a consolation to say that wacky fantasy shit has been show's appeal to me since S1 and I've become increasingly invested with each passing shake-up?

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>>29941279
>That's like a single jew destroying the USSR in an explosion of capitalism. And everyone's ushankas instantly convert to baseball caps.
more like a single jew destroying the tsarist empire in an explosion of communism
and yes,that did happend

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...Have we even HAD nuChangeling toys?

That's usually the scapegoat. BUY OUR TOYS THE FORCE AWAKENS

>>29948421
Apparently not...they've actually been releasing toys for the old changelings/Chrysalis recently. Makes the reformation even MORE retarded.

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>>29948660
VOGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL

>>29948660
Actually, that's a good thing. Might force the writers to allow Chrysalis to make a new hive with the original non-shit changelings. Vogel can fuck right off with his reformation if toys have to be sold.

>>29948980
Yaaaaaas please make this happen

>>29949493
I'd be for if only because - if they're not treated as cartoonishly evil - it'd send a message of not judging a book by its cover.
That was my biggest gripe with the episode desu. Even everything resolving so quickly wasn't a problem IMO, they're a hive species. But implying that they have to LOOK like good guys if they're going to BE good guys is pretty lame.

>>29947610
Shame the comics fucked lings in general with that kill those they feed on bullshit.

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At least the gameloft game people understand the old bugs are fan favorites.

>>29949977
Just 'cause they DID doesn't mean they HAD to.
Not that I'm defending comic lore. Sombra's still a garbage fire and NMM has lots of problems.

>>29950048
I like the new designs just fine.
I just don't like what they represent (purely in-universe).

>>29950145
any story that says nightmare moon was anything but natural unaided jealousy and tries to explain in as some outside magical force is automatically shit.

>>29949977
What, of course they kill their victims. What else would they have those fangs for? In the comic they're shown to snort(?) their victims, but that's just because it's not okay to show blood in a pony comic.

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>>29944955
>"GIVE HER ALL OF IT" (love)
>Pink waves of light.
>Transformed.
>Other changelings do the exact same thing.
>This isnt love.
Then what the fuck was that pink shit that changed them all then.

>>29949599
>>29948980
I will take back everything i ever said about vogel if this is setting up the nuChangelings to be absolutely incapable of fitting into pony society due to the forced and sudden change, wheras the few changelings that didnt get caught in this bullshit are able to integrate with no problems.

Hell, some of the nuLings going back to chrysalis would be fucking perfect.

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>>29950252
Funnily enough I liked the Legends of Magic story a lot more despite it basically being more of the same.
That Fiendship one-shot's angle of LUNA DINDU NUFFIN SHE A GOOD GURL just ground my gears. Pure BS, I agree.
Not against the idea of there being SOME outside influence though. "Nightmare" forms are surprisingly consistent across the B-canon. Comic, card game, EQG... there being some metaphysical ideaspace template makes a lot more sense to me than Luna being that autistically committed to her edgy teen OCs.

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>>29950340
>Then what the fuck was that pink shit that changed them all then.
Meme Magic.
Literally.

>>29950519
Well at least we can agree that fiendship went way overboard on it yeah.

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Surprised to see this thread's still up
>>29950340
You misunderstand, I elaborated more here:>>29945192

>>29946220
There is a huge gulf between "sharing" something and "freely giving" something. When you share a sandwich, you both have some sandwich, but if you give a sandwich, they have a sandwich, but you don't have any sandwich. The same could be said of this situation, before Thorax was letting go of some of his love and only to those who would love him back, the key to the transformation was giving up all of it without the expectation of reciprocity.
>no downsides
The changelings all believed that they needed to hoard that love energy to live, it would take an extraordinarily brave or reckless changeling to take that next step beyond just sharing a little. Thorax himself only did so because he believed he was going to die anyway. Not saying Glimmer was asking Thorax to shoot a kamikaze love beam at Chrysalis by the way, her logic was probably that if sharing a little love gave him glitter wings, then freely giving all of it would just make him more sparkly.

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>>29950888
>Just giving it all = transformation.
That explanation falls flat though when you consider that thorax was fucking terrified of chrysalis.
Meaning, his actual emotional state means fuck all to the act of giving love, meaning literally any changeling could have had the ultimatum of "Give me all the love you've been hoarding and i'll not kill you." and transformed after complying.
A changeling that was particularly loyal to chrysalis or the hive as a whole could have done the same thing.
Not exactly something outside the realm of possibility, the sheer ease with which the rest of the hive did the same thing as thorax despite having none of his development just adds to illogical nature of the whole thing.

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>>29951059
Haven't read the back-and-forth going on here just yet but judging by the images you should love a waifu no matter what she looks a like & shame on you if you aren't

>>29950340
I'd take it all back too, but I seriously doubt that we'll get treated to such a display.

>>29950888
Problem here is that you need a sandwich to give to be able to give a sandwich away. Changelings were starved for love so they can't just give away something they don't have.

>>29942780
We didn't know over half of that for sure. Even living in hives was just a fanwank thing before the S6 finale (comics featured a sp99ky castle IIRC). "Analogue for a succubus" DEFINITELY reads like headcanon.
Whether they HAD to forcibly drain love was never concretely established. Neither was whether they had to feed on LOVE at all, the official card game caused a scene thereabouts way back when. That very ambiguity is what made them such an interesting species that I was eager to see revisited 4 years strong. So speak for yourself my dude. Liked them then and I like them now.

>>29943936
>and almost all the other antagonists.
3 reformed vs 3 not. Seems pretty even.
And for every Gilda & DT there's a Suri & Iron Will.

>>29941279
The two aren't mutually exclusive. See >>29947750/>>29947757.

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>>29942572
>Maybe Chryssie is currently popping out a new army
l-lewd...

>>29952358
>& Iron Will.

Was he technically an antagonist? He didn't actually do anything antagonizing, he just provided the base conflict and then he left when FS told him she wasn't satisfied. It's not like he outright sabotage anything or was even particularly rude.

It's still a thing.

>>29941174
I like them. They look very happy. And Faggot Deer was destined to become the next king regardless, because he had a normal voice.

Also it didn't take much to convince them is because they saw Thorax.

>>29952538
Lightning Dust then, his name was shorter

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>>29954051
>Lightning Dust
Lightning Dust did literally nothing wrong though. And she was even supposed to be "reformed" in Wonderbolts Academy, but the episode was too long and they cut it out.

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>>29954065
FLIM FLAM THANK YOU MAM

>>29954065
>tfw we will never see her again

>>29954065
>Lightning Dust
Fuck ya, her ass are very dust~

>>29954051
>his

>>29956114
His referring to Iron Will.
I was very tired during the first post.

>>29954065
it's better this way anyway

>>29957119
But Friendship...