So, is FiM a feminist show or not? What do you think about its

>>29755927
It used to be definitely "feminist" in the classic, non-Tumblr definition of the word, "women are people too", and "girls deserve a good show with a good story and strong female characters"

Now that the supervising director dismisses criticism saying that the show "is for little girls" and therefore it can be shit, it's any-other-old-school-girl-show tier. No wonder why /mlpol/ loves the new seasons where the mane 6 are idiotic retards, it's what they expect from girls.

>>29755945
I'm not sure that's exactly what Jim meant. I think the idea was "Little girls get such little quality content, we make it for them, what they think matters most, everything else is just gravy."

What makes the show not feminist now, because the characters are emotional, or act dumb sometimes? If anything wouldn't that be more progressive than having them be perfect? What your last sentence explains is EqG, not FiM. EqG is a very traditional show in comparison and has a lot of the pitfalls that FiM at least initially avoided to keep it from being written of as "girly" fluff.

>>29755956
>what they think matters most
They don't, though. The direction of the current show is based on what BRONIES think is best and what think matters most, hence the several Maud episodes that would have been much better suited to exploring the rest of Pinkie's family. Just for one example.

They don't know what little girls want. They think they do, and I can't even imagine how much money Hasbro spends on focus groups to try and brainstorm that exact thing. Faust did, but she left.

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>>29755927

>>29755966
/thread

>>29755964
Honestly given things like toy channels on YouTube, everyone is overestimating how smart kids want entertainment to be. Its sad.

>>29755966
yet you are here

>>29755927
Lauren Faust is a self-avowed feminist, her beliefs are bound to be reflected in her work.

>>29755945

It's still got some classic feminism in the show. Kristine Songco and Joanna Lewis's episodes in season 6 really stood out to me in this way. In Gauntlet of Fire, you've got the generic plot of a girl wanting to win at some sort of physical challenge or sport. But they don't write it like the whiny norm about being oppressed and instead include female dragons in the competition from the start and make the conflict about her overprotective father instead. It also just has a sense of unison between the genders with Spike being able to take the win and hand it over to Ember without a hint of animosity at any point. I found Top Bolt to be similar in that it didn't try to paint the relationship as abusive and instead let the characters flow naturally with each other.

Ironically, I think the way they wrote those episodes is much more egalitarian than say A Dog and Pony Show in season 1 where Spike is depicted as fantasizing about Rarity's predicament as a good opportunity to save her, subtly saying that Spike is objectifying her. I think it kind of backfires since I think most people just find Spike to be brave and caring in that episode. And obviously Dragon Quest from season 2 is not so subtly preaching against toxic masculinity.

I think the most drastic change from "there's more than one way to be a girl" that Faust based the show on was how they handled Fluttershy as the seasons went on. In Season 1 her outbursts and contrasts to her shy personality were always under a maternal pretense, sparingly used, or were wrapped in some sort of cute consequence. Putting Your Hoof Down was kind of a catalyst that got the ball rolling on changing Fluttershy's personality to be less passive. But between the overdone gags like Flutterbat and Saddle Rager and her newfound assertiveness, I think she became kind of an unlikable bipolar mess rather than the soft, feminine, and maternal character she was in season 1.

>>29755956
But the characters were already emotional and they acted dumb sometimes. They had defined personalities which were far from perfect, and they were good characters. Why does Jim think that his interpretation of how a women is supposed to be is more accurate than Lauren's or Meghan's vision?

A fun fact I like to bring up. In an old interview, someone from the staff admitted that during the first seasons, some writers thought of Rainbow Dash as a male, because it was easier for them to write a male brash character. As stupid as it sounds, I think that that's the definition of feminism, thinking that you can write a male character, change his gender and present her as a female character without changing anything else. Showing a girl acting exactly like a boy was progressive, and a beautiful message to all those girls who "act exactly like boys" according to the society.

If the show had started now, with the current direction, the director would have said to those writers "you can't write her as a boy, she's a girl, write her thinking of a girl", and those writers who literally couldn't think that a girl can be brash would have written a completely stupid character.

>>29756082
>Kristine Songco and Joanna Lewis
I absolutely agree. I don't understand how they fucked up so much the characterizations in LoE, but their episodes in season 6 were solid.

>>29756082
Gauntlet of Fire and Top Bolt were pretty impressive regarding their depiction of gender relations. I'm glad they didn't keep up the whole "dragons embody shitty men, ponies are nice girls" thing.

I think part of the problem is that men are treating writing a female character as anything special when it shouldn't be.

>>29756083
If they did that it may have ruined the show. That's the best part about dash, she's strong and prideful but still had that softer feminine facade with some latent insecurity sprinkled on. It was realistic and felt authentic. If they ruined that she wouldn't have much of anything left.

God knows what would have happened to the rest of the cast.

>>29756095
>part of the problem is that men are treating writing a female character as anything special when it shouldn't be
A million times this.

>>29756097
"Tomboy who secretly likes traditionally feminine stuff" is an archetype that has been done lots though.

>>29756095

That's probably why FiM was so enjoyable in the first place. You've got endless amounts cartoons where all the female characters are the same old strong girl in an oppressive world archetype where they're constantly trying to signal how strong and smart they are, desperately trying to get the young audience to adapt this into their mindset as to what girls are.

With FiM, since the majority of the characters are female, they actually have a ton of variance and aren't treated as anything special. They're allowed to have so many more flaws and archetypes compared to shows that only have a few female characters in the spotlight.

>>29756103
Name one time it had been done to an adorable pony with an interesting coloration.

>>29756110
Its just that Embers gender was never even an aspect discussed in the episode. That's what makes FiM different from older shows or even other shows. It could have easily been a boys vs girls thing. But it wasn't.

>>29756103
>secretly likes traditionally feminine stuff
She's becoming more of an archetype. She started liking the spa in season 6. Her season 1 self was a brave pony who literally only hided her fear of failure. Now she's hiding that she likes to go to the spa. She's becoming a fucking tsundere cliche because they're trying to write her as a girl instead of keeping it as she was written in early seasons.

>>29756097

I don't really think Rainbow Dash as any kind of groundbreaking character. But I do like that her Equestria Girls design has long hair and is overtly feminine, instead of a more dyke look.

But in the show, I think AJ is a refreshing take on a more athletic character with more masculine traits. With Applejack, I don't doubt that she's a girl for a second despite her athleticism, physical strength, and dedication to her job/family. Rainbow Dash honestly just strikes me as a boy with the gender flipped the vast majority of the time.

>>29756130
That's probably why she is considered so attractive to be honest, she doesn't come off as an emotional wreck of a female.

Compare her to rarity and you can see the differences in appeal. I agree about eqg, she easily had one of the best models.