how would you write this mary sue?

>>29635830
it cant be done since shes not a mary sue.

>>29635830
Exactly as she is now, except with my penis inside of her

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>>29635836
>not a mary sue

topkek, the delusion of this guy.

>>29635836
she is though

>>29635840
>>29635841
lets hear your definition of mary sue.

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>>29635830
Learn how to bait!

>>29635830
I'd change her color pallet to red & yellow. Change her name to fit that. Change her mark to one of a sun. Make her more of a proud, egotistical type of social shut in rather than Moondancer type of nerd. I'd change her VA from Tara to the girl that does her singing voice. I've always liked it. She would still have problems with friendship like before but now it's because her ego stands in the way rather than social awkwardness. I'd make her less reluctant to do magic. I'd change her backstory to where she was power hungry and passionate to get stronger magic to a point where she demands that her teacher, Celestia turns her into an alicorn but Celestia refuses and explains to her why she isn't ready. She asks what else she needs to do so Celestia sends her to Ponyville to learn about friendship. That about covers it.

>>29635851
character that is spoiled by the universe, akin to self insert

>>29635839
spbp

>>29635862
thats a very vague and subjective definition.

>>29635856
>fix twilight
>by making her exactly like twilight but shitter
wew

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>>29635830
Someone here should analyse the Mane 6 + Starlight as balanced characters and put them on this graph.

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>>29635872
I'm not either of those guys but this is a Mary Sue to me.
I don't think there is one in MLP

>>29635881
kek, ive got that saved as well.

>>29635856
>Crawling In My Skin: The Character

FiM would have flopped massively. Pass.

>>29635872
it's based on the hundreds of faggots i've seen debate this simple concept, and I decided this was the best definition, as simple as it gets

twilight is spoiled by the universe in almost every regard, her success, victories, everything does't feel natural or like it was earned

>>29635879
My waifu would be a "Strong Character"

>>29635881
>Brohoof
what did they mean by this?

>>29635886
I don't think you know how to use the crawling in my skin meme

>>29635879
>balanced
twilight is thousands of times more powerful than she needs to be, than the story would ever possibly need her to be

the writers don't know what the hell balance is, the series would have lasted a lot longer if twilight was had the qualities of a good character, and we wouldn't have mary sue knockoff characters like glim/shim, it's all twilight's fault

>>29635878
There's nothing to fix

>>29635881
that's a blatant parody of a mary sue you dipshit, something highly exaggerated

>>29635909
We each have our own definitions.
How do you define a Mary Sue?

>>29635888
nice trips.

thats a pretty subjective definition as well. what qualifies as spoiled by the universe?

AJ didnt lose her farm when she should have. spike conveniently gained a memory that turned him from a rampaging adult dragon back into himself, and the fact that worked at all. if you wanted to study the show im sure you could find an example of the universe spoiling every character.

>>29635896
/)

I can smell all the rustled jimmies itt

>>29635913
>what qualifies as spoiled by the universe?
characters with an absurd amount of fortune, talent, etc, way above what they should be

twilight has more magic than all of the ponies in her town combined, she lives a life of luxury where she wins at every corner and is guaranteed to be successful no matter what

i'm not ever here to debate this crap, if you can write a more interesting twilight then I'd love to read it, otherwise fuck off

>>29635970
>i'm not ever here to debate this crap
Then why are you here?

>>29635978
see >>29635830

>>29635985
See>>29635856
Also, you can't just accuse someone's waifu of being a Mary Sue and not explain or debate why. That's a very insulting thing to do.

Nyx and Starlight

One is a badly written mary sue with OP power dispite what she is.
The other is Nyx

>>29635991
how would you change her for the better then? I won't call her a sue if you can do that

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>>29635999
The numbers make it so

Eat shit, poochiefags

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>>29635970
>fortune, talent, etc
she earned that shit if you paid attention to cutie mark chronicles. she may have some natural abilities, but the same could be said about anyone in reality. hers just happen to coincide with her passion for magic.

>twilight has more magic than all of the ponies in her town combined
if you mean ponyville then id retort that said town is almost entirely earth ponies. if you mean canterlot then id retort that most of the unicorns there are snobs who likely dont work hard on anything, let alone developing their magic. twilight on the other hand has shown shes been studying and practicing just as hard as her body can manage since she was a filly. of course shes going to be good at it.

>i'm not ever here to debate this crap
you shouldnt post an opinion if youre not ready to defend it. twilight is plenty interesting as she is. shes already been shown over and over to not be as strong as many other characters and villains in the show. shes not even the most powerful magic user. calling her a mary sue is ridiculous as she isnt by any stretch of the definition.

>>29636026
>some natural abilities
she lifted a giant bear a thousand times her size with some other huge shit, that was in an early episode, if that isn't absurdly powerful then what is
>id retort that said town is almost entirely earth ponies
let me reiterate more clearly, twilight has way more magic than even a thousand unicorns
>you shouldnt post an opinion if youre not ready to defend it
my intention was to debate this obvious crap, if you can write a more interesting twilight I'd like to hear it, that's the intention

>>29636052
Someone being powerful doesn't mean they're a Mary Sue, especially considering Twilight earned all her power through hard work and study.

Now if Twilight was incredibly powerful for no reason, like say, she was leader of a village in the middle of nowhere for twenty years but still managed to be one of the most powerful characters, and all the main character's loved her despite her lack of actually doing anything for or with them, and she succeeded at most of what she attempts without trying, then she might be a Mary Sue. But luckily, there's no one like that in the show.

>>29636052
telekinesis is one of the only magical abilities every unicorn seems to be able to use. theyve never explained how much magic that takes, but considering the previous fact id estimate its an extremely basic level spell; one that fillies can cast. she struggled to lift that bear, but i dont see why it would be impossible. she and cadance lifted a giant flower later without nearly as much trouble.

glimmer has been shown to have more raw magic than twilight. rather than point it out and use it as an example that twilight isnt the strongest, people instead use it an cry about glimmer being a mary sue as well. theres no winning with people who cant accept twilight is strong and at the same time cant accept that anyone else is stronger. theres always a bigger fish.

your stance is also confusing.

>>29636072
>heres no winning with people who cant accept twilight is strong and at the same time cant accept that anyone else is stronger. theres always a bigger fish.
I have never once contested talent and strong, leader protagonists until this show

>>29636052
It feels as though you're confusing the mary sue character definition with qualities that are simply exhibited by a significant and well written character. She has attributes that make her stand out while also not being the greatest or most well maintained in these qualities within the series. She is definitely not perfect and most definitely goes through struggles. Twilight is a great character and i'm sorry to say that if you or anyone else feels as though she is a mary sue then you all don't have a firm grasp on characterization or storytelling in general.

>>29636101
She only has 'likable' flaws, not actual, real flaws. That's part of the very definition of a Mary Sue.

Stop arguing otherwise, you so obviously know nothing about what a balanced character is it hurts.

>>29636455
>She only has 'likable' flaws, not actual, real flaws
its not real socialism.

>>29635888
>spoiled by the universe
>literally studied daily to learn all her magic
>progressed as a character to learn about friendship
>still not as powerful as Starlight when she's a FUCKING ALICORN
Okay

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>>29635856
>nobody has managed to guess yet that he's talking about Shamwow

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>>29635830
Have the next season opener be about her slowly having a mental breakdown from all of the stress of trying to appear to be a perfect princess, and have her friends reveal they had noticed she was acting different but didn't want to stop her if she wanted to be more like Celestia. Twilight decides to relax somewhat and let her real personality start showing again.

A sublot throughout would be Starlight thinking Twilight's real personality is evidence that she was replaced by a changeling AGAIN and trying to expose her, culminating in the entire town finding out and collectively letting Twilight know the miss the old her and wouldn't mind if she was herself.

And then have her show more of her character traits and flaws throughout the next season continuing until the show ends. Making her an adorkable nerd again.

I didn't even have to think that hard about this. I started typing with just the idea "revert her personality."

>>29636485
>>29636068
>>29636072
>not spoiled by the universe.
>becomes the exclusive pupil of the god-empress of all pony kind before she's even in high school.
Imagine if the fucking president of the united states visited your junior high and then ask you to intern for him. It's fucking ridiculous. I'd work pretty hard too, if I got that opportunity.

>>29636499
Not even that, imagine if Jesus-fucking-Christ came down from the heavens and said "Yo dawg you work super hard, I'm gonna teach you shit while slowly and secretly molding you into a demi-god." to you if you were like seven and went to church often.

THAT'S what it was like for Twilight.

>>29636499
>is spotted to have the magical potential needed in a protige
>is asked to be said protige
It's not as if she got the role for nothing.

>>29636499
i suppose you missed the part where she worked her ass off to even get into the entry exam, and then exploded into a torrent of raw magic and cast extremely advanced spells, including transformation and either aging or growth.

and since you insist on using a real life analogy, the government does in fact recruit young people who prove they have exceptional abilities. like hacking into their shit. its how a friend of a friend ended up working at the FBI.

>>29636509
No it pretty much is. Hard work is cheap. Everyone works hard. Fucking Mexican landscapers work HARD. Japanese salarymen work themselves literally to death. Crazy talent + ridiculously outlandish opportunities + hard work is the very definition of a mary sue. She's a shit character and you know it.

>>29636520
>hard work is part of what makes a character a mary sue
alright, you need to go to bed.

>>29636515
Yeah, well there's also a difference between working for the FBI and working for God -- and then becoming a fucking demi-god. Again, it's totally ridiculous and it ruins the show.

>>29636526
Can a mary sue be a lazy shit? I don't think so.

>>29636534
Being a lazy shit who solves problems with no effort is one of the defining traits of a Mary Sue.

To speed up this argument, how about you give us your definition of a Mary Sue and we can work from there.

>>29636539
>Being a lazy shit who solves problems with no effort is one of the defining traits of a Mary Sue.
I just googled Mary Sue. First result: "A Mary Sue is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character, a young or low-rank person who saves the day through unrealistic abilities."

No idealized fictional character would be lazy.

>>29636548
Look up the fic the term "Mary sue" is coined from

>>29636548
since a perfect character wouldnt need to work hard to achieve their goals, they would already be lazy.

>>29636548
>solves problems with no effort
>saves the day through unrealistic abilities.

Basically synonymous.

Besides, if that's the definition you're using, Twilight is clearly not a Mary Sue. Twilight is hardly idealized or perfect.

>>29636553
I didn't say she was perfect. I said she was idealized.

>>29636559
Whatever, I'm done with this argument. You're just being willfully obtuse at this point and falling back on semantics.

>>29636560
>has character flaws
>often fails
>has to work hard to achieve anything
>incapable of victory without help from others
>isnt always the one to save the day

>>29636562
It's my first post in the thread, but whatever.
Have a nice day. I'll catch you in another thread.

I'm sure someone else will come along and offer a counterpoint eventually.

>>29636567
Second*

Sorry, just wanted to be clear in case you came back.

>>29636492
The very first sentence was what gave it away for me. I don't get how nobody else sees this.

How I would redo twilight And the rest of the crew

1). Instead of twilight being picked up by celestia as a child because of plot, have her work towards it, and it be a new-ish thing(Have her private magic study with celestia being with in one or two years before show starts).

2). Have mane 6 in canterlot, yes she is a Recluse, but she still had friends at cantorlot, she had no reason to uproot and leave them permanently, there were good friends(Just not good enough for plot) have them be friends before the show starts, and have twilight's nerdyness flush out the relationships as the story plays out

3). Get rid of the Elements, Yes they can still exist, but not it the "Super friendship lazer of death raw" but in something more...subtle, have "Harmony based spells" where 2 or more ponies can do better magic if they work theater as a team. Hell cannon the 3 tribes did an EoH based thing, why doesn't this happen more?

4.) Axe Shining and Cadence as rulers, Make Cadence babysit twilight Pre-Alicornhood and build on her and shining's relations before she ascends, if anything to make sure to drive home his "Love" isn't a side effect of her magic.

5). Make one of twilight's old friends the first villein, it will drive home the need to save them then "Hay look it's the rulers sister, congrats you saved the princess" Make it something real-world like, such as a slight mana high from a certain spell making them crave more and more dark magic


6). Make the timeline more defined and possibly, the whole 6 seasons MLP canonically took around a year(Using the Summer sun in ep one and Season 4 premiere, as time points and my the best pet win and Tanks for the memories as additional time points) Make it take course over 4 or 5 years, to show they are growing rather then being just shoved from one event to another.

7). Re-do twilight's ascension, have it be an inner conflict Hell, I'd work off original draft by Larson 1/2

>>29636578
2/2
7). Have twilight be the issue, rather then fucking everyone else up, then fixing it, have her be the one who is fucked up and trapped in her own mind, thinking that she didn't connect well enough to her friends to be worthy of being saved. While she is fighting her inner demons about herself. Celestia tells everyone that they are the key to save twilight and has them put in a small matrix style sleep, where they go into twi's head and fight off her demons showing she is not alone and allow her to truly embrace friendship. Thus allowing her to ascend and not let everyone thinking that she died from magic rebound from the elements.

>>29636529
She isn't really at a demi-god level I would say. I mean sure she has had some instances where it's baffling how absurdly strong she is written at times, though what character doesn't?

A Mary Sue is more of a character who is absolutely perfect in every fashion in writing. Each of the characters the show focuses on has their own shortcomings. Going from Twilight being so socially awkward she preferred to study over visit friends.

I think if you want a shining example of how Twilight is not a Mary Sue, Lesson Zero is a really good example of this. Or even with some of the recent season where she literally was biased against Trixie and believed she could not change.

A Mary Sue would have been "oh it's all water under the bridge, you're okay." Twilight has character flaws and a good number of them.

Granted I feel the whole Starlight Glimmer has the magic proficiency of an alicorn is a shitty copout on Hasbro trying to downplay the power that Twilight has. Instead of it being "Oh Starlight's magic is crazy!" That's just personal speculation however.

>>29636578
I can agree with 3, 4, 7, but not the others.

1: Twilight's relationship with Celestia was a large part of her character in Season 1 and 2. From the letters she sent to her constant need to impress her and even in the first episode you can see how important that relationship is to her. You'd be removing a large part of her character by removing that Celestia element.

2: Ponyville is the entire setting of the show, and uprooting that 'small town' vibe for the big city just makes no sense. Hell, the majority of problems she faced were exclusively because she was in Ponyville.

5: I don't really have anything against this. I just personally don't like the idea of her first villain being an old friend. It's cliche.

6: Canonically, the show's taken place over two to three years, hasn't it? I'd argue that's more than enough time for character development and change.

>>29636607
1). Yes I know that and why i didn't axe it completely, Twi will still want to please her teacher.

2). Again, it was moved there so they could jerk off from gen 1. there is no real reason for her to move there, Sweet apple acurese could have AJ living from a store in Canterlot and running it as she does the farm. Rarity would shit her dream to opening a shop in manehatten(Rather then Canterlot) RD could be enrolled in a training school that the wonderbolt have been known to recruit from rather then just hoping for an opening. alot of the tings could be easy worked into a small suburb of canterlot and still have a "small town" feel to it.

5). There is a reason cliches exist, they work sometimes, but i see your point
Nope, because as stated, Celestia was partly worried on Luna's reaction on the Summer sun celebration. My the best pet win was after winter wrap-up (Both season one) And tanks for the memories(s5 or 6 i forget witch one) states it's RD and tank's first winter. Time in season 5 and 6 got a bit funcky so IDK how they really fit

>>29635830
Go back to Season 1, and establish the boundaries of magic clearly. The show's current power creep gets away with it because magic is so ill-defined and arbitrary. Cut that shit off immediately, and they will have no excuse.

>>29636578
I'd rather not have Cadance ascend. She doesn't fit in with the others and there's no reason at all for her to be an alicorn (other than sell toys). She would be perfectly fine as a normal pony, leave the ascension thing to characters that actually do shit and fucking earn it

>>29636638
2: No, I still disagree. Ponyville is essential not only for Twilight's journey into the unknown, but as a huge crutch for many of the ponies personalities. Fluttershy's character would suffer without the small isolate cottage she lives in and the wild animals she takes care of, both of which can't exist in Canterlot. Pinkie Pie as well, with her knowledge of everyone and need to please them, can really only thrive in a small town. And even uprooting Applejack from her hardworking farmer roots is a large stretch. There's different connotations to someone who works a field and someone who works a cash register. And many of the plots and problems faced by the mane six can only exist in the context of a small town. It would effectivly be an entire different show, with an entire different tone, if set in Canterlot instead of Ponyville.

Canterlot is a city of high sophistication, it should remain that bastion of upper class. It works best as an opposite to Ponyville, not as a replacement.

Plus, Twilight coming out of her shell and making friends was also a large part of her character, and having her already be friends with the mane six would render that entire point moot.

> Again, it was moved there so they could jerk off from gen 1

Wasn't it called PonyLand in Gen 1? With the ponies living in Paradise Estate? What are they jerking off?

>>29636677
Meah, fair enough

My bad, it's gen 3, when they have all the ponies divided by race, the earth pony town is called ponyville (with playsets)

>>29636677
Also Twilight coming out of her shell, that could still happen, like i said she's an recluse and doesn't go out much, them coming to drag her from her studies(Or celestia booting her out at the request of her friends) I think it could still work

>>29636686
There's still a difference between being pulled out into an adventure with all your friends, and being pulled out into an adventure with a bunch of strangers and becoming friends.

Still, I will agree. The theme of the show is friendship, and having Twilight interact with ponies that are already her friends is just as valid as not. After all, that's what 90% of the show is.