Thorax

The whole point was that he risked his reputation for him. And I doubt even Twilight would have believed him at the very start.

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>>29345966
Wasn't it still quite a risk to trust this bitch? Celestia's word is good and all, but couldn't it still have been a scheme on Nightmare Moon's part to help infiltrate Equestria? Not a knock on Luna, but it's not like Nightmare Moon had a reputation for being nice

I would have just shot the dude, Tbh.

Or at least gleaned him for information, and then shot him

>>29345987
>I doubt even Twilight would have believed him at the very start.
Well, why not? Surely the only difference between the start and the end is that Spike actually stood up for Thorax whereas before he hushed a bit when confronted

And I get Spike risked his reputation and that it worked out, Thorax is a good dude, but I'm saying despite that couldn't he really have just been lured into a nasty Changeling scheme?

>>29345966
would changelings do that? just go on the crystal empire and tell lies?

>>29345966
I'd fill his butt with my love

>>29345966
Yes, it was. I brought it up in the episode threads at the time: I've no problem with them tentatively giving a Changeling a chance - he seems honest, and with some precautions could be kept away from anyone or anything dangerous. But the way everyone went from "no fucking way" to "A-okay with us!" was definitely a leap. Especially for Prince and Princess "our wedding got fucked by changelings".

>>29346141
>master of disguise and infiltration
>exposing yourself on purpose
it makes no sense when he could just turn himself into a citizen or guard and accomplish whatever he wanted while avoiding the risk of it not working.

>>29345966
Hug the bug
Fug the bug

>>29346147
This. The only reason he pretended to be Crystal Hoof was because he knew ponies would inherently hate a Changeling. If Thorax truly were a spy or it was a part of a master plan, why would he even stick around with Spike? Just impersonate a guard.

>>29346147
Exactly. It makes sense to not kick him out immediately - he obviously wasn't openly hostile - but that everyone (including those with a deep and strong personal reason to dislike changelings) were instantly so okay with him that gets me. If they'd had Cadance, say, instead of literally presenting her baby to a changeling she only met hours earlier take an approach of "I want to trust you, and I recognize that you've given us some reason to. But what the Changelings did isn't something I can forgive so easily, and I'm just not personally comfortable around you yet" - see, that would've been good.

For that matter, why did literally nobody suspect it might be a plot specifically to get them to accept a changeling as okay?

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>>29346147
>>29346322
>when he could just turn himself into a citizen or guard
There were identity checks in place though. Exposing himself could have been part of the actual plan to get close to the Crystal Ponies in order to steal the love out of it. Sort of similar to what Chrysalis did in A Canterlot Wedding, pretending to be nice and gaining the admiration that way until you can finally strike

He wasn't a hostile Changeling, but isn't there quite a big risk he could have been?

>>29345966
that's racist anon

>>29345966
I doubt that the Changelings have the ability to act.

>>29346675
Why is AJ raising her leg like that?

>>29346547
again, for what purpose? what would he gain by deceiving them that way instead of just spying on them like a normal changeling?

>>29347543
Because they would be prepared to identify a potential straight-up replacement: It's something they've seen before. Hell, maybe they've even got an anti-changeling spell or measure they can try. So, you don't go in with the same tactic you did last time; you straight-up reveal yourself early on and plead that no, you're different now!

They accept you, let you in, and then boom - a few months later, invasion part 2.

>>29347751
thats just silly anon. they could do that by quietly replacing guards or citizens like in the s6 finale.

>>29347874
While that's obviously a better plan, you surely can't rule out the possibility of a Changeling pretending to be friendly for the simple reason of getting closer and attacking from the inside.

It's not like Thorax went and revealed himself anyway, he got caught by Spike. He did save his life shortly afterwards, which is really the sign that he's a good dude but couldn't that also just be seen as a way of gaining favour to execute the plan?

>>29347983
>you surely can't rule out the possibility of a Changeling pretending to be friendly for the simple reason of getting closer and attacking from the inside
but he can do that already by just using a disguise quietly. thats what im not getting. theres literally no benefit to outing yourself when youre a perfect spy already.

>>29348004
The problem with using a disguise is that's only good for distant observation. Want to put an agent in close proximity to someone who's already familiar with Changelings? Good luck pulling a replacement. Want to put a changeling into an area where they're actually doing reasonable security checks? A hasty replacement isn't going to cut it either.

>>29348004
>he can do that already by just using a disguise quietly.
But he couldn't. He'd already been spotted and identity checks were put in place. What's more is even if he hadn't been spotted, Spike found him and it's not like he was trying to get caught

>>29348109
>He'd already been spotted
because he wasnt disguised due to not having the interest in spying

>>29348197
>he wasnt disguised due to not having the interest in spying
True, but I'm not sure we actually got any details on how he was spotted. Maybe he was disguised and his thirst for love revealed him? In a theoretical case of him having an interest in spying, maybe he just screwed up?

With or without the prior detection, his encounter with Spike pretty much led to his reveal. If Thorax outed himself as soon as he met Spike then there'd be less reason to doubt, since as you say he'd have no reason to do that, but he got detected by Spike. As soon as that happened, it could even have been a makeshift plan from Thorax with some on the spot thinking. I know it seems an unlikely one, but I don't think it's really outside the realm of possibility at all

>>29345966
It's the traditional double agent shtick. He presented himself as a defector, thus earning the trust of the enemy so that instead of infiltrating (since changelings are inept as fuck), he would earn a place in their organization. But since changelings are retarded, he went with it too far, helped Starlight instead of betraying her, and got turned into a bad OC. Then he probably just rolled with it.

Or he might have been working for someone else the entire time, and has been playing both parties like a fiddle.

...mister President.

>>29345966

Spike is used to being a creature who is generally feared but being trusted by ponies, so maybe he naturally sympathized with the outsider.

>>29346675
>There were identity checks in place though
But he still managed to disguise as Crystal Hoof????

>>29348533
Because he didn't exist

>>29345966
The nu-changelings are ugly.

>>29348533
>>29350091
Oh and also, he was a friend of Spike the Brave and Glorious, who they love over there

>>29351293
Watch the episode again. They weren't allowed into the palace at the beginning just because they were with Spike, and they made an identity check with Twilight.
Face it, the only reason he was allowed to go around in his disguise was because if shitty writing.

>>29345966
>but couldn't it still have been a scheme on Thorax's part to help infiltrate the Crystal Empire?
Maybe it is. Chrysalis is obviously an idiot who doesn't know how to play to the Changeling's strengths. Maybe this has all been a scheme to get ponies to trust changelings, allowing them to move into place for a perfect strike.

>>29351846
Come on mate that's a stretch

>>29351621
That's still irrelevant to the point the friendship between Changeling and Dragon could have been a ruse to simply get closer and strike from the insider. Even with alternate options available, the fact of the matter is Thorax was caught, so it could have been his Plan B.

Changelings are schemers, a plan like that sounds right up their alley. Spike made a decision to trust Thorax, but surely it could have backfired trusting a Changeling

>>29351846

I doubt this show would disillusion us, and all the nice kids who actually watch it, by undermining the fundamental message that everyone can be redeemed.

But a really nice trick would be Chrysalis tricking everyone into believing that and framing Thorax.

>>29351621
>Watch the episode again. They weren't allowed into the palace at the beginning just because they were with Spike, and they made an identity check with Twilight.

And also did one with Spike.

So, why would they check Crystal Hoof if Spike came back in? "Hey guys, I'm me! I'll confirm it *Confirms thing they would know*. Oh, this? this is my friend. I confirmed he's who he says he is. You want to confirm it?... How? You've never met the guy. See the problem there? But the important part is, I'm me. Gonna let us in now? There you go."

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>>29345966
Even in the finale, when Thorax does confront Starlight, isn't it really a risk to trust him just on the basis he's a Changeling?

For one, the other Changelings could have been pretending to be Thorax and for another, even if it was Thorax, who's to say he wasn't in on it?

A spy on the inside would give them key information as to when to attack and how.

Thorax didn't turn on the Ponies and that was never his intention, but is there anything to suggest it couldn't have been? I'm sure there were theories as soon The Times are Changeling aired that it was an inside job