So how was she able to get a message through to Starlight? It

>>28721491
Because changelings can't enter dreams. That's Luna's special ability.

And yet they did since they dragged her away.

... I don't fucking know.

>>28721491
she was not captured during that scene, she was sleeping and when they captured they woke her up and that was manifested in her subconscious like the changelings pulling her out

>>28721491

Because magic.

>>28721491
The finale was plot contrivance: the episode

>>28721491
It could have only been in the moment while she was in the process of being captured.

When Luna entered the anti-magic field, her ability to wake up at will, which is a divine power of her, was nullified. At the same time, the changelings could enter her realm because ...

>>28721491
It's a show for little girls, remember, they don't pay attention to continuity/consistency/logic, etc.

>>28721723
That's a pretty fucked up view on little girls.

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>>28721746
Ok, Anon, go ahead, gather up the 'target audience' and ask them how they feel about all the things I just mentioned.

>>28721491
Enjoy Jim Miller's era, where he doesn't give a shit so this will keep happening over and over again.

>>28721491
Because Starlight is a Sue and had to save the day, no matter what fycked up logic there was.

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>>28721697
>It could have only been in the moment while she was in the process of being captured.
But then how would she know Starlight hadn't been captured?

>>28721502
Same question, if she wanted to warn somepony, how did she know to specifically warn Starlight because she hadn't been captured yet? Also, if she was sleeping and knew the Changelings were coming, surely she'd have woken up and tried to fight it off?

>>28721811
>Starlight is a Sue
Starlight did fuck all in the episode though, except assemble the team.

>>28721811
It's not so much that she's a Sue and more that she's becoming the show's new main character.

>>28721497
>Because changelings can't enter dreams. That's Luna's special ability.

Changelings can also use mind control, it makes sense that they can also enter into minds to take over, and are skilled enough to handle Luna.

>>28721697
>At the same time, the changelings could enter her realm because ...

If she can enter into any dream, then theoretically she could have used it to find them in the first place, it could have even been by accident. Logically, since they're an invasive species, they would develop some way to prevent mind-reading of any kind by someone else, because otherwise their whole plot would be spoiled. Following this, and that Chrysalis has demonstrated the ability to control minds directly, we can conclude that the lesser changelings or Chrysalis herself forced Luna out and this was a visual representation of the control 'forcing' her away from it.

>>28722379
But she is a Sue if she shows up out of nowhere, and suddenly when she's around EVERYTHING has to revolve around her.

>>28721775
>doesn't realize jim doesnt actually write the show

>>28722255
bump

>>28721491
Dreams operate on a different frequency/plane/dimension than magic.

Like communicating from inside a faraday cage using quantum entaglement.

>>28721491
Ponies aren't really asleep when inside the pods, just in some sort of unconscious yet awake state, it had also been quite a while since they got captured so it was clear to Luna that all captured ponies were already in the hive, and the dream starlight was having was a good indicator that she had interacted with the disguised changelings. She had also been awake inside the hive long enough to know what was happening, it's probable she even saw all the other prisoners as well.
eh, Luna said the dream called for her and she was able to escape, and we know that she visits dreams physically; nothing like what the mind control spell of the changelings that just seems to diminish the will of the target. So I'd say the changelings inside the hive saw her slipping through the portal or whatever it is that lets her enter dreams and started pulling her out, and either it worked inside the hive because it's completely different from all other magic or that she was actually able to escape the magic-nullifying area by herself, but was followed by changelings, but that would arise the question of why didn't she defend herself with magic, unless again that she can't use conventional magic inside dreams because those powers work differently, and every instance of regular magic we've seen her do inside dreams is merely a manifestation of her dream powers covered by illusions also created by them.

>So how was she able to get a message through to Starlight?
Through the mqagical power of something called 'shit writing'

>>28723210
He doesn't write but he directs the show, he has the final says on what goes or doesn't

>>28722419
well then,in that case I think that we can safely say that you need to go fuck yourself

bumpo

Imagine two changelings entering her dream and trying to drag luna away from that hole

Imagine them having troubles because that royal moon butt posterior is so heavy and huge

And now draw the scene in your head

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>>28723852
>it worked inside the hive because it's completely different from all other magic or that she was actually able to escape the magic-nullifying area by herself,
The former seems possible, but it's still magic isn't it? The latter seems less likely, Luna somehow escaping herself just doesn't seem like something that happened.

I always saw the Changelings inside the dream merely being a representation of her being forcefully stopped by the Changelings rather than the Changelings literally and physically being in the dream realm. If Luna had snuck away, she could have woke herself up and fought off the Changelings in the real world which is why I don't think it's all that likely. That, and it's not exactly easy leaving the hive.


It hadn't actually been that long since they were captured. The Sun set and the Moon rose, which are the duties of the Princesses. From that we can assume Chrysalis' kidnapping of the Princesses happened the night Starlight returned, Chrysalis herself says she just received word that the Princesses had been replaced that night, so I don't think they were gone all that long really.

The Ponies do seem to awaken in the Changeling pods, so maybe they are aware of their surroundings and that's really the only way I can think that Luna would know to contact Starlight. But if that were the case, she'd have to be doing it from inside the Changeling hive, which is where magic is blocked

>>28721491
Not even magic nullifying rock thrones can stop Luna from watching ponies have wet dreams.

>>28723852
The pods must be draining desu

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>>28726112
>she could have woke herself up and fought off the Changelings in the real world
But here's were you are making a mistake; Luna doesn't go to sleep when she visits pony dreams, if she had been asleep all the while she would've never known she and the others had been captured by changelings, because she'd be still asleep, we also know ponies aren't actually asleep when inside their pods. Let's say that she somehow sees chrysalis mind and she dreams of her plans for world domination; she wouldn't have been able to tell just from that if the plans were real and already been carried out, or even if she was/had planned anything at all.
There's no "representation of changelings waking her" because she isn't dreaming.

>t hadn't actually been that long since they were captured. The Sun set and the Moon rose
I don't know how long the trip to Starlight's village is, but we know that she went there, went back to ponyville and the next day after that she got teleported by discord to a "near ending" festival which last supposedly a whole week. We also know that she went back to ponyville, the moon rose and by the time Discord teleports them all to the hive it's day already, the only explanation is that changelings somehow found a way to move the sun themselves.

>but it's still magic isn't it?
Well, changelings change their bodies with magic too, don't they? and they still could do it inside their own hive. Even Chrysalis more conventional spells and love-draining magic worked, so there are obviously loopholes.

>>28722455

That's not what a Sue is.
Contrast it to the show's pilot, how Twilight shows up out of nowhere and suddenly EVERYTHING revolves around her. No one in their right mind is claiming Twilight is a Sue then, she's just simply a main character.

A Sue is someone who circumvents any potential plot with their powers, acknowledged or otherwise.
Imagine if Discord's magic wasn't thwarted, and he just teleported to the changeling kingdom, waltzed in there, saved Fluttershy and everyone loved him forever. All the buildup and every other character's investment would be for nothing, because everyone loves Discord. THAT would be a Sue.
Even in scenarios where Discord's magic isn't nullified, there are other ways his character can be kept in check making him a non-Sue, like for example Make New Friends but Keep Discord, his power is best described as godly, but the narrative doesn't give him control over emotions - other characters get upset at him, Fluttershy is dissing him, etc.

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>>28721491
>But then how else would she know Starlight hadn't been replaced and captured yet? So where was Luna when she sent the message to Starlight and how did she know?

They showed her being grabbed.

>>28728298
That doesn't answer the question

>>28728691

It wasn't answered in the show. Either it was before she was captured, or she momentarily escaped before getting put in those alien pods, or she could somehow get into dreams even from inside one of those things.

>>28727195
Changeling magic is different.

About Luna's dream walking, I don't know man, you're saying she literally goes into dreams in her own physical form? If so, how the heck would the Changelings get in and pull her out?

>>28727195
>changelings somehow found a way to move the sun themselves.
That seems unlikely, it takes real power to do that
I don't think they could physically fly up to the sun and push it down router

>>28723729
Isn't dreamwalking magic based though

>>28721723
they do but in my expirience they latch onto the most obvious bit of retardation and focus entirely on that while adults see something really bad and decided to go searching for every minor mistake

in this case the little girls will be more worried about how rushed the changlings turn on crysalis scene was

>>28721502
That'd be odd

>>28721491
BECAUSE THE PLOT SAID SO!

>>28728236
No, you're wrong. Twilight wasn't a Sue in the pilot, because the Mane 5 were still incredibly necessary. She started to be called a Sue around MMC when everything did start revolving around her.

>>28729875

Did you accidentally reply to the wrong post or something? Because you're agreeing with the statement.

>>28723863
But Lauren wasn't writing this episode.

>>28729918

nice meme

>>28725326
>Luna gets stuck in the hole
>With every push and shove her bottom squishes tantalizingly against their hooves and jiggles back
>They towel the sweat off their heads in unison
>Then say 'aw, fuck it' while they take turns giving her the ol' changeling love, hard as a carapace and throbbing with magic

>>28729918
Plotholes are McCarthy's thing.

>>28730041

What sort of newfaggotry is this? Since when?

>>28728925
>Changeling magic is different.
Exactly, it could be that Dream magic is also different
>how the heck would the Changelings get in and pull her out?
It the only way it would make sense, if he has to physically enter the realm of dreams, then changelings can follow her, depending on how exactly that happens. Because it's even less likely that they could actually enter dreams on their own, and a manifestation in Luna's mind doesn't make much sense; if she just looks asleep when she dreamwalks then changelings wouldn't have a way of knowing she's doing it.
>>28728926
>I don't think they could physically fly up to the sun and push it down router
Neither could Celestia does she? I'm saying they found a way, look at the fact; Chrysalis gained enough power from SA's love to overpower Celestia; now, imagine a changeling receiving the love the entire nation feels for her.

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>>28730114
I just don't think raising the Sun and the Moon is something you can just do though, especially with Changeling magic. I never saw the Changelings themselves as having that much power, even when fueled with love. Chrysalis perhaps, but you may be right really.

Physically entering the dream realm isn't something that's shown to be possible at all, is it? It's not like Luna just steps through a portal to go to dreamland.

I've literally never thought of her in the Dreamworld being her actual physical self, always saw it as a manifestation she controls.

Just feel more confused about how the Changelings got her now then honestly. It seems like it had to have happened whilst she was in the hive, as otherwise there'd surely be no way of telling Starlight isn't captured, but then how did she get into the dream and how was she promptly caught? She does mention having a connection to Starlight's dream which I think is an important point though

>>28730355
>Physically entering the dream realm isn't something that's shown to be possible at all, is it? It's not like Luna just steps through a portal to go to dreamland.
Judging by Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep, Luna projects an image of herself into the dream realm, her physical body remains in Equestria while her mind (or a part of it) enters the dream world, there are scenes where she's still in the castle casting her spells while the rest of the mane6 and Ponyville are sleeping.

>It seems like it had to have happened whilst she was in the hive, as otherwise there'd surely be no way of telling Starlight isn't captured
I see two solutions.
One, since she visited Starlight earlier just before the attack, she knew Starlight would be traveling far away, and correctly guessed Starlight would be out of the changeling's immediate reach.
Two, since she can maintain and cast more spells than any other pony we've seen and has a repertoire rivaling Twilight's own, it's not unthinkable she sent messages to dozens or even hundreds of ponies simultaneously. Starlight with Discord's help would still reach the hive faster than for example the royal guard.

>>28730449
>correctly guessed Starlight would be out of the changeling's immediate reach
That'd be quite a guess considering she did return shortly after, and if the Changelings were after her they'd surely find her relatively easily. I think even with the knowledge that Starlight would be away, it isn't really a solid assumption to make that she'd be safe

As for the latter, I don't know. I was about to make a point how that doesn't seem possible because back in DPDoMS she struggled to hold Ponyville's dream together, but that's really a different thing altogether. It doesn't seem likely though, if it was some Ponies may still be on their way to the Changeling hive, whilst others would probably try to attack the "imposter" Princesses.

>>28730475
>it isn't really a solid assumption to make that she'd be safe
No I'm with you, it's a gamble. But in Luna's case it's better to gamble on Starlight than to not play at all and just accept changeling victory.

>>28730355
>I just don't think raising the Sun and the Moon is something you can just do though
Unicorns could before Celetia and Luna came around, why couldn't overcharged changelings?
>Physically entering the dream realm isn't something that's shown to be possible at all, is it? It's not like Luna just steps through a portal to go to dreamland.
We do not exactly know how Luna enters dreams, not even in the comics have shown how that works, we only can deduce it from the surrounding events
>She does mention having a connection to Starlight's dream
She did say that the dream called to her, as if she could detect all bad dreams ponies have and them some dream-force-magic stuff summons her.

>>28730587
>if she could detect all bad dreams ponies have and them some dream-force-magic stuff summons her.
I think she does, considering she's helped out a few Ponies with their problematic dreams now. Doubt it's just by chance that she saw they were having a bad dream.

I suppose we don't know how Luna enters dreams, but wasn't it sort of touched on in Magic Sheep? I don't think it is something you can just follow her through to get to the dream realm.

>>28730488
It still sort of leaves the question as to when Luna did manage to do that if it were the case. On the way to the hive?

>>28728298
Was it rape?

>>28731390

Those rape pods they put them in are pretty rapey.

>>28721502
If she woke up, surely it'd be a cause of concern for the Changelings
She could easily call a guard or fight them off

Dreamwalking is strange, isn't it?

>>28721491

>>28731992
And there's no way she could've been able to tell the changelings captured her, her sister and the elements if the last thing she remembers is falling asleep in her own bed. So she had to be at the hive or under some magic nullifying spell when that happened.

>>28733813
>when that happened
The dreamwalking? If she was at the hive, it raises the question of how it wasn't blocked by the throne, or if it is a different level of magic, how she even got caught dreamwalking in the first place.

>>28721491
Princess Luna

>>28721594
Blocked

>>28721491
She was using a Nokia.
The resulting explosion gave her time to get out a message.

>>28736521
Wew been a while since a Nokia joke

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>>28721491
We can only speculate that Luna's dreamwalking isn't a conventional form of magic that can be drained by the throne.

Secondly, she herself was struggling to dream properly while cocooned, so she'd be able to infer that since Starlight was dreaming properly, she hadn't been captured.

The biggest plothole is this. Who was raising the sun and moon?

And what was with the look on Celestia's face?

>>28737338
>she herself was struggling to dream properly while cocooned
What are you basing that off?

And how would she know Starlight's dreams aren't improper?

>>28737338
Not far fetched to think the Changelings did it themselves
They had a LOT of love

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>>28737372
>"Your dream called to me and I was able to break through."
This one line is what I'm basing both assumptions off of. Besides, being a dream perve is kind of her job, isn't it? I think she'd be rather good at it after all the years she'd been doing it for.

>>28738053
Had she even collected any yet, though? Her dialogue implies she hadn't collected any yet. The sunset festival almost being over at the end of part two puts the timeframe of the whole thing happening over a week. Around three days for Starlight and Trixie to get there and three days to get back, and one day for Thorax Magical Mystery Cure to take place.

Or it could all be shitty writing because it's a show for little girls, according to Jim.

>>28738266
She took over all 5 Alicorns and the Elements of Harmony

She had a lot of love

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>>28738266
But was Luna dreaming when she was in Starlight's dream? If she was, surely she'd look asleep? How would the Changelings even know what she's up to if she does to sleep and dreamwalks?

>>28721491

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>>28739174
>But was Luna dreaming when she was in Starlight's dream?
She was in a kind of coma state, not asleep and not quite awake. I guess by 'breaking through' she was able to get to the dream realm for a short time because her dream thing tends to pull her to ponies with problems, which Starlight has in spades.

>Changelings even know what she's up to if she does to sleep and dreamwalks?
They likely didn't, the Changelings didn't know they were coming until Discord got loud.

>>28740232
She literally got pulled away from the dream by Changelings though, I think they knew but I don't know how

>>28740260
Dreams are highly metaphorical, Anon. But like I said, this all speculation attempting to fill in the plotholes of a mediocre toy commercial

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>>28740277
Tbh I find it interesting how differently people saw this scene in this very thread. I think she was stopped by the Changelings, but, I mean, them simply being representations of her struggle to connect could be the case too. Dream world leaves a lot open