Gundsm is technically not the first real robot, that would be

>>15838545
Care to explain why ?
Not that is wrong but right now this is nothing more than a bait. But I will take it if this mean we can get an actual discution going.

what caracterizes a real robot?

>>15838871
According to Wikipedia
>The robot is used as an industrial machine with arms/manipulators and is manufactured by military and commercial enterprises of various nations.
>The concept of industrial production and commercial manufacturing processes appeared for the first time in the history of robot shows, introducing manufacturing language like "mass-production (MP)", "prototype" and "test-type".
>While classic super robots typically use special attacks activated by voice commands, real robots more commonly make use of manually operated scaled-up/advanced versions of human weapons, such as lasers/particle beams, guns, shields, and swords.
>Real robots use mostly ranged weapons that require ammunition.
>Real robots require periodic maintenance and are often prone to malfunction and break down, like real machines.
The last one is a bit of a stand-out, I remember that coming up in a fair few super robot shows before Gundam (the Robot Romance trilogy always have maintenance scenes, for example).

>>15838871
does yelling make it stronger? yes is super, no is real

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>>15838930

>>15838893
>The robot is used as an industrial machine with arms/manipulators and is manufactured by military and commercial enterprises of various nations.
Getter Robo
>The concept of industrial production and commercial manufacturing processes appeared for the first time in the history of robot shows, introducing manufacturing language like "mass-production (MP)", "prototype" and "test-type".
Getter Robo
>While classic super robots typically use special attacks activated by voice commands, real robots more commonly make use of manually operated scaled-up/advanced versions of human weapons, such as lasers/particle beams, guns, shields, and swords.
Getter Robo
>Real robots require periodic maintenance and are often prone to malfunction and break down, like real machines.
Getter Robo

>>15839327
B-But Getter Robo is a super robot show

>>15839333
Maybe super robot and real robot are actually fairly nebulous terms, and it's better to classify mecha by genre (action, adventure, space opera, etc.) instead?

>>15839353
You mean we could have nuanced opinions on /m/ ?
Why would we do that when we can instead divided everything in two arbitrary categories ?

>>15839353
I've been making this argument for years, but newfags to the genre or idiots who only watch one type of work (i.e. standard pleb who only watches Gundam, Macross etc) always want to push the super/real labels.

Actual genre labels are far more accurate than super/real. The real difference between Gundam and the works before it is that it's a military fiction story. It's not more realistic, it didn't introduce realism to the mecha, but it was the first to be so heavily military in its narrative. It copies war movies.

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>>15838893
>>The robot is used as an industrial machine with arms/manipulators and is manufactured by military and commercial enterprises of various nations.
>The concept of industrial production and commercial manufacturing processes appeared for the first time in the history of robot shows, introducing manufacturing language like "mass-production (MP)", "prototype" and "test-type".

Great Mazinger fits.

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>>15838893
>The concept of industrial production and commercial manufacturing processes appeared for the first time in the history of robot shows, introducing manufacturing language like "mass-production (MP)", "prototype" and "test-type".


GMKA is a test type.

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>>15838893
>>While classic super robots typically use special attacks activated by voice commands, real robots more commonly make use of manually operated scaled-up/advanced versions of human weapons, such as lasers/particle beams, guns, shields, and swords.

Yeah, Great Mazinger does use that too.

>>15839494
I can't think of any that are actually activated by voice commands. I can think of loads with manual controls where pilots call their attack, but that's about it.

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>>15838893
>>Real robots use mostly ranged weapons that require ammunition.
>>Real robots require periodic maintenance and are often prone to malfunction and break down, like real machines.

Yeah, Great does that too...

IS GREAT MAZINGER A REAL ROBOT?

>>15838684
>Care to explain why?
Sure, but before, what makes you think those two are super?

If by super means the robots have super weapons, then neither tetsujin 28th or giant robo qualify.

The idea of super robots exist purely because of Go Nagai who had the outrageous idea of mixing super heroes with giant robots.

It wasn't a normal development for giant robot fiction.

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>>15839499
Maybe some magic ones like Rayearth

>>15839506
First I think the whole division into real and super is kind of stupid, but there is some differences between Giant Robo and Macross, and I found this interesting.

Secondly I think your definition of the super robot is wrong, you blame Nagai but this anon made it clear that to some extent, Nagai robots can also apply to be real robot (I'm not agreeing with everything he said, but >>15839481 >>15839489 are good point).

But if we talk about the Yokoyama robot, I think that what set them apart from the rest is the fact there are not piloted from the inside, this to me is very important, I think placing the pilot in the heat of battle with his robot is the first step of the "real" robot subgenre, plus, the battle is some early Yokoyama title are quite far away and somewhat clean compared to the war drama that happen in Gundam or to the violence of some Nagai stuff.

But then again, these things are also very frequent in Nagai stuff, and I don't think Mazinger is "real" robot.
To me, the robots have to be mass produced, but as normal weapon and not like super-weapon, that why I think shows like Macross are a better fit to the "real" robot than the first Gundam, wwhich still use the RX-78-02 as some kind of super-secret and insanely powerful asset.

>>15839506
It was just a way to sell his robot as being ultra cool. Something like:
>my robot's not just an ordinary robot, it's a super robot and therefore at least twice as cool as a regular one

>>15838930
>does yelling make it stronger?
This trope was invented by Gundam. It is not a super robot thing. You imbecile.

70's super robots have more defined limits and never operate on willpower.

>>15839912
Any of the stuff you mentioned about being mass produced or secret weapon isn't what I think. I wouldn't include stuff like war drama as a attribute of real. That's an attribute of just the storytelling. Like you said yourself, both the works of Nagai and Tomino can contain war drama, both expressed differently.

I want to move the real and super term in the domain of the fantastical. When you look at Giant Robo and Tetsujin 28th, the fact that they are giant robots is already fantastical. But Nagai's bots are even more fantastical, is that these giant robots are now super heroes. I find Gundam to be a simple return to the roots, and Votoms even more by downsizing the robots and making it as plain as possible.

The 7 years that followed Nagai's Mazinger seemed like a fad, where everyone wanted to copy him and Toei before everyone decided to just get back to the plain Giant Robo. There's really nothing fantastical about Giant Robo other than the fact that it's about a giant robot. Daisaku is a plain spy (amidst the espionnage films fad of the 60s), not some super pilot. The enemies are still normal humans, not some half man half woman, or a guy who looks like he's been in the sun for far too long, or a talking head.

>>15839912
>the first Gundam, wwhich still use the RX-78-02 as some kind of super-secret and insanely powerful asset.

I think Gundam's an odd one because it was an early step towards real robot show, most of the other MS in the show are presnted as miltiary machines, but like you said the Gundam itslef is OP as fuck (it's still a machine that need to be repaired and rearmed, though) and most of the more Monster of the week prototype and Mobile Armors still seem strainght out of the Super Robot shows before it

>>15842240
>it was an early step towards real robot show
I would argue that stuff like giant robo was already the first step towards real robot.

>>15839499
I seem to remember Neo Getter having that, but the original sure as fuck didn't.

>>15842240
>(it's still a machine that need to be repaired and rearmed, though)

This applies to a shitload of robots from the 70s. While you don't often see, say, Daitarn getting repaired or resupplied, you certainly do things like Mazinger Z or Getter Robo.

>>15842210
That's a hock of shit.

>>15842531
Mazinger got trashed in the movie.

>>15842908
No argument.

>>15843103
You have no argument in the first place, realisticuck shitposter.

>>15843160
Argument first, realistic shitposter

>>15843103
>Mazinger got trashed in the movie.

And quite a few times in the show proper. Getter Robo got the shit beaten out of it multiple times as well. As have most old Supers.

>>15843418
Maybe Astroganger didn't.

>>15838545
I think the super/real comparison shouldn't be of the robots themselves, but about the availability of the robots

in mazinger Z, the only people that have robots are kouji and dr. hell's group

in getter, it's only the getter pilots and the antagonists

in gundam on the other hand, there are entire armies of robots

in patlabor, there are robots of civillian use

of course they might blur the line on subsequent iterations, like unicorn or even nu gundam posessing magic powers, or mass production of mazinger-type units, but then you could take into account how much a model outclasses the others

unicorn can still take a beating and mazinger still outclasses everything else

>>15844367
So any story about the development of robots can't be considered real robot because only a small portion of people would have them?

>>15844367
>in mazinger Z, the only people that have robots are kouji and dr. hell's group

So, the Mazinger Army doesn't exist? And no, you can't say "oh that was the sequel" because it was in the original.

And even that aside, there's also that german scientist that had one, and there were one or two other new episodes with other robots.

>in getter, it's only the getter pilots and the antagonists

Texas Mack says fuck you.

>in gundam on the other hand, there are entire armies of robots

But in Gundam, the army of robots on the ally side only happened late into the show. How is this different than the Mazinger Army precisely?

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>>15839506
>The idea of super robots exist purely because of Go Nagai who had the outrageous idea of mixing super heroes with giant robots.
>It wasn't a normal development for giant robot fiction.

>>15838545
Seems like every one has a different definition for the terms.
For me it's always been about the size of the mecha. If they are comparable in size to whole buildings, like in Gundam, then it's super. If the mech is more on the same scale as real life military machines, like the ATs or Labors, then it's real.

>>15845954
What makes you think this is funny?

With Yokoyama, all the robots to this point didn't have any special abilities.

>>15838545
Ah yes Gundsm a classic.

The same way that the world isn't black and white, just because some real robot tropes happen to apply to some super robots doesn't mean Gunbuster is real and Gundam is a super.

Fucking iill yourselves already. People have pretended to be retarded far too long now and newfags just keep parroting dumb shit as if they're truth.

Stop pretending you don't understand simple concepts and labels you humongous retards. Stop right now I can't take it anymore after so many yeafs of the same shit everyday! Fuuuuc offfffffffffffff

>>15839353
I think of it as more of a scale than a hard definition

Realist Robot being Mechwarrior and Super Even Further Beyond being Guren Lagann

>>15846260
>mechwarrior
>realist
And this is where you fail.

>>15846038
>With Yokoyama, all the robots to this point didn't have any special abilities.

Didn't the Toei Giant Robo have the ability to shoot magic cross fires at things?

>>15846273
Don't know about Toei. I was talking about the original manga.

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>>15838545
Its Gubdsm, jesus get it right OP

>>15842240
>the Gundam itslef is OP as fuck
It becomes outdated halfway through the show

>>15839353

It's more about writing style than the specs of the robots.

Also, Super Robots more often than not treat the robot as a character, while real robots often treat the robots as just tools.

>>15846026
So a tiny robot that can alter reality is real? Nice one, dumbass.

>>15846629
>Also, Super Robots more often than not treat the robot as a character, while real robots often treat the robots as just tools.

Patently false. The vast majority of early robot series specifically treated the robots are tools. Tetsujin, Giant Robo and Mazinger all have the same theme of "it can be a hero if controlled by someone good, but it can be a destructive force in the wrong hands".

>>15846629
>It's more about writing style
That's retarded.

There's no such thing as a super robot writing style and a real robot writing style.

Why the fuck is /m/ made of so many dumb 20 something morons? Holy fuck, it's embarrassing.

Military genre = real robot
Not-Military genre = super robot

They're just bad substitutes for actual genres that people started twisting with all sorts of misinformation such as
>super robots use magic
>real robots are realistic
etc.

>>15846896
These don't work either, because realism shouldn't be equated with the military. I wonder who's the dumbass who came up with THAT.

And let's not forget that early 70s mecha also made use of the military, albeit ineffectively, but it's not like they don't exist.

>>15846026
So Bilbine, King Gainer, and Heroman are Real Robots?

>>15846580
Not really. The first robot to outright surpass it at basically anything was the Dom, which had to use much shitter weapons. The first robot that just was better in terms of specs was the Gelgoog, and that only became a thing at the ass end of the war. And even that was significantly less well armored, it's just that by that point beams were a thing.

>>15846896
Dancouga and Gunbuster are Reals, then?

>>15846986
>These don't work either, because realism shouldn't be equated with the military
Real robots aren't about realism.

>>15847165
>Dancouga and Gunbuster are Reals, then?
They are not military fiction. That's like saying Getter Robo is military fiction. Votoms, Macross and Gundam are military fiction.

>>15847309
>Real robots aren't about realism.
What's the real stand for then?

>>15847318
>Real robots are about realism
Then why do they break the laws of physics?

>>15847309
Getter Robo is military fiction. Do you even know one thing bout it?

top gun with robots = real robot
capeshit with robots = super robot

tubes = old and busted
boxes = new hotness

>>15847447
Shit taste

>>15846867
>>15846867
Depends on how small it is and to what extent it can alter reality. If it's smaller then any possible human pilot (baring magical tiny fairy pilots or some shit), it isn't a mech anymore.