IBO Seven Stars

>bunch of self-serving assholes wait patiently to swoop in like vultures while their adversaries & political enemies fight each other
>come out looking like the heroes who saved humanity with minimal losses sustained

It wouldn't be surprising.

Not necessarily.

The Seven Stars organization is named after the Order of the Seven Stars, which people get from killing the most mobile armors. Given the complexity of the later suits, Flauros and Kimaris, over the earlier models, Bael and Barbatoss, it's quite likely that the later suits were better at killing mobile armors without dying in the process.

I mean, in world, only about thirty of the 72 Gundams were operational in IBO. That's a pretty significant attrition rate.

>>15784996
The fact that they made their leadership over Gjallarhorn hereditary makes any altruism suspect, plus they immediately made the control system that gave them said power illegal.

>>15784930
They only weren't known because Gaelio was the only one to drag his family Gundam out of the vault.

>>15784930
Not really. We don't know the production rate of Gundam frames. Maybe all the frames were rolled out within a couple months, and number 72 is only a bit later than number 1. Plus, there's no reason they couldn't have been piloting other frames before they got their Gundams.

>Eugene Seven-star-k
Is this one of the changes staff made in S1? I know in the original draft he was supposed to betray Tekkadan. Was he actually supposed to be a Seven Stars mole?

>>15784996
>The Seven Stars organization is named after the Order of the Seven Stars, which people get from killing the most mobile armors.
I thought it was because there were seven noble families that make up the ruling class of Gjallarhorn. They're the council that we see meeting a couple of times, especially in S2.

>>15785983
Dantalion is number 71 and according to its manual was rolled out nearly at the end of the war using combat data collected from other gundam frames. Now while that doesn't give us much of a time frame, we can at least assume there was a significant amount of time between the late numbers and early numbers.

>>15786259
They're the seven noble families because of being awarded the Order.

>>15786345
Nah, you've got it the other way around. Source?

>>15785019
>The fact that they made their leadership over Gjallarhorn hereditary makes any altruism suspect,
That was also like 300 years prior, more than enough time for their original intent to get completely corrupted.

>plus they immediately made the control system that gave them said power illegal.
Well, it DOES also completely fuck up your body if used without limiters.

>>15786351
Pretty sure it was mentioned in the show getting the Order will also get you a place on the council. It's why everyone was so mad the writers quietly dropped the issue after Mika killed the mobile armor which supposedly should have gotten him the award and thus a place on the Seven Stars council.

>>15786375
>Pretty sure it was mentioned in the show getting the Order will also get you a place on the council
I don't recall that at all. Iok has it in his pea-brain that McGillis wanted to reactivate Hashmal just to take it down and earn more influence with the rest of the Seven Stars, because no one has earned an Order of the Seven Stars since the Calamity war.

Each seat on the council is already occupied by the leader of each of the 7 families. McGillis is already on the council, representing the Fareed family. There aren't any empty places, nor are they going to kick out one of the existing 7 families.

>It's why everyone was so mad the writers quietly dropped the issue after Mika killed the mobile armor which supposedly should have gotten him the award and thus a place on the Seven Stars council.

I genuinely don't remember anything like that in the discussion at all. Mika isn't even a part of Gjallarhorn and Tekkadan is at best neutral to Gjallarhorn and at worst hostile to them, so Mika wouldn't be eligible to receive it in the first place.

>>15786375

> It's why everyone was so mad the writers quietly dropped the issue after Mika killed the mobile armor which supposedly should have gotten him the award and thus a place on the Seven Stars council.

He's no-one. He's literally human garbage. It would have been entirely moot anyway, because McGillis promptly launched his coup.

Why would the Seven Stars get together and decide to promote him to nobility, when that action would only harm their position? It makes no sense. The whole point of the series (see Baal) is that the people in charge don't actually believe in that kind of irrational mysticism.

And guess what, after Rustal won the final battle by shooting everyone to death with Dainseifs, it turned out they were right.

>>15786624
>He's no-one. He's literally human garbage. It would have been entirely moot anyway, because McGillis promptly launched his coup.
>Why would the Seven Stars get together and decide to promote him to nobility, when that action would only harm their position? It makes no sense.
It would have been interesting to see exactly that go down in the show, though. "Why would we give this fucking space rat one of our highest honors? GTFO." Instead we got the whole thing being all but completely forgotten.

>The whole point of the series (see Baal) is that the people in charge don't actually believe in that kind of irrational mysticism.
It would have cemented the theme better to have some more scenes of Gjallarhorn doing exactly that. It also would have established a more solid motivation for Tekkadan to join McGillis' rebellion having been denied recognition from Gjallarhorn for their deeds beyond Orga's hubris.

>>15786624
>The whole point of the series (see Baal) is that the people in charge don't actually believe in that kind of irrational mysticism.
Except the only reason 3 of the Seven families remained Neutral during Mcgillis's coup was BECAUSE he had Bael, otherwise he would have been placed under house arrest at the very least when Gaelio made his accusations. Hell Rustal flat out admitted he was going against the law of Gjallarhorn by fighting against Mcgillis after he gained Bael, which implies it wasn't exactly mysticism.

>>15786624
>And guess what, after Rustal won the final battle by shooting everyone to death with Dainseifs, it turned out they were right.
Which ironically, required him to rely on "outdated" traditions.

>>15786668
>"Why would we give this fucking space rat one of our highest honors? GTFO."
That's what happened though. Gjallarhorn literally pretended that Mika never destroyed it. They never acknowledged it because they never wanted to award anything to him.
If anything, it's why Rustal destroyed Tekkadan, with the tacit approval of the rest of Gjallarhorn. Gjallarhorn are in the position of power they are because of their ability to defeat the Mobile Armors and thus establish a hegemony over "peace-keeping" and other duties. Tekkadan defeating one just lessens their own authority, thus they needed to be eliminated.

>>15787138
Right, but the problem is as far as the show has displayed what you just said is nothing but headcanon and the writers forgot about the issue.

If that was a plot point IN the show, it would have made the plot far more compelling, as it is you're spouting nothing but headcanon.

>>15787175
Mika destroying the MA was mentioned once afterwards. Where Rustal said that anyone who could destroy an MA single-handed could no longer be considered human and that using Dainsleifs was a fitting way to kill such a "Beast".

>>15784930
Chances are most of the original pilots died off and later models were better.

It also doesn't stop them from having fought in the war before getting a Gundam.

Kimaris had a lot more firepower than most of the earlier Gundam.

>>15787200
Never mentioned anything about considering awarding him anything.

>>15787216
The thing is we only know the loadouts of Three Calamity War Gundams, Agnika used twin-blades because his synch rate was high enough that it was all he needed , along with being his preference, while the Flauros was buried with the Hashmal despite having two Dainsleifs. Meanwhile while the Astaroth definitely had a good loadout, the fact that all gundam frames have the same base specs means that pilots most likely found what they liked and stuck with it.

>>15787223
Considering Rustal called him a "Beast" it's likely that the seven stars refused to award it to him, not confirmed, but likely based on Glallarhorn's overall views on AV users.

>>15786342
How strong is Dantalion?

>>15785019
I can almost guerentee something shady happened. Wars tend to be expensive as all hell and the money and/or resources needed to wage an apocalyptic interplanatery war would ruin entire nations. If I had to guess, the 7 stars families weren't all pilots in the war.

>>15787342
It's possible that they had pilots marry into their families and claimed their "Order of Seven Stars" for themselves, that said, I personally think their ancestors WERE pilots, since we see the vault where they keep their gundams.

That said, Rustal somewhat enigmatically hinted that something happened after the calamity war. Specifically that Agnika Kaieru wasn't around for the aftermath.
While this is purely mass guessing, It's possible that the Gundam pilots of the Calamity War broke off into factions and fought against each other after the war ended. With the Seven Stars being the descendants of the victorious faction, which would explain why they made the AV system illegal so that it couldn't be used against them again.

>>15787487
>which would explain why they made the AV system illegal so that it couldn't be used against them again
Maybe, but they also outlawed or severely limited almost all of the Calamity War tech. Modifications to humans, even robotic limbs, were clamped down on; more significant weapons of war like the Dainslief were banned; and access to Ahab reactors was limited through Gjallarhorn itself.

Seems to me like this was a case of deciding that all of these things were evil.

>>15785019
AV was never considered illegal though, it's just that body modification (which including AV and artificial limb) that was shunned upon by their modern society.

>>15787503
It was perfectly legal to own MS and ships powered by Ahab reactors outside of Gjallarhorn. It's just the reactors production method was kept secret and monopolize by them so they were the only ones making new reactors.

>>15787231
The manual paints it as being one of the strongest Gundam frames ever built.

>>15787503

The AV augmentation could only be given to children. It's a tool for making effective child soldiers. Making AV taboo doesn't just make it so it can't be used against them, it also is a measure to prevent future use of child soldiers by any knucklehead that went "gee. It sure went well for Gjallarhorn and their Gundams. Maybe I should try it too."

>>15788632
Only the backalley surgery version of AV they used on Mars could be given to children.

>>15788632
And we saw how well that worked.

>>15788648

Except not. The technology didn't advance at all during the 300 years after the Calamity War, and it's only because of the research that went into the Graze Ein that an adult like McGillis was able to receive it.

>>15788649
Crank's reaction to CGS employing child soldiers indicated they were not common until Tekkadan showed how effective they could be..

>>15788727
>Except not.
Except that's exactly how it worked according to the Mechanical Works book, pg 123.
The version that McGillis got was Calamity War tech that was "lost" after the war because Gjallarhorn kept it to themselves, the shitty back alley version that only kids could get was all that anyone not Gjallarhorn had access to.

>>15787228
There was never any conversation about awards. Positions could just be fixed.

The way they were decided originally doesn't mean they were still up for grabs.

I have a question that you chaps just might be able to answer. When a MS gets damaged do AV users feel that damage as their own? During the MA fight augus punches the MA until his hand completely disintegrates. He them shoves his num arm into the MAs body. The camera panes to his IRL arm and it's spazzing out and looks like it has arthritis.

>>15788791
>num
*nub

>>15788791
He's a special snowflake that can become one with the machine, so he's the only one who has the enhanced feedback.

for everyone else it is literally a non-issue

>>15788791
We don't know if he was feeling anything just that it was fucking with his body.

>>15788800
You didn't watch the show at all, huh?

Mika wasn't a "special snowflake that can become one with the machine" Mika was a psychotic idiot who turned the filters off that would have kept Barbatos from frying his brain and in turn let him become one with the machine. Gaelio did it too but had Ein's brain as a feedback filter. Everyone else just wasn't that crazy.

>>15788814
but he was the only one who survived the most surgeries, more than anyone

>>15788884
That's because he's originally a Newtype.

>>15788814
>Everyone else just wasn't that crazy.
But no one else has the same number of implants, right? No one else can access that level of "bond with the machine" bullshit.

>>15788925
>But no one else has the same number of implants, right?
Yes
>No one else can access that level of "bond with the machine" bullshit.
False, there's nothing saying no one else could have. Space Guts had the option but opted not to sacrifice his body the way Mika did. Macky had a completely different version of the AV but it never came up if he could or couldn't, but given his goals and his ego it's easy to assume he wouldn't have wanted to either way.
And to directly disprove the idea "no one else can": Ein was literally his machine, his connection was even deeper than Mika's, and Gali-Gali achieved Mika level connection using Ein's brain as a filter.

>>15788937
Ein also had the same number of implants that Mila has. Also if McGillis's AV is the original version that was "lost" during the 300 year timeskip, it could be theorized that even a person with 1 whisker can go full throttle like Mika did.

>>15788598
Gunpla manual also said that Bael's swords are unbreakable.

>>15789098
Exactly.

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>>15789098
I don't know what's real anymore.

>>15789101

Bael's original swords were lost. McGillis is using replicas i.e. the Helmwig's swords.

>>15788727
>child soldiers were not common
>except they were fucking everywhere
If anything, it only consolidates Rustal was ignorant about anything outside of his office and Gjallarhorn's inner politics.

>>15789394
He mentioned Crank said that.

All the exposition said they weren't supposed to be that common and their popularity grew after Tekkadan got famous.

Mobile suits also weren't supposed to be common

>>15784930
Maybe before the calamity war ended they kept churning out Gundam because the Gundam in the field were getting too fucked.
Imagine ... IBO where you didn't get 9001 alternate forms.

>>15789883
They portray the calamity war as a grind, but there are so many perfect-condition Gundams that survived it. So either

the Gundams were so fucking overpowered they soloed everything in the war flawlessly, and the meat grinder applied to everything else

or

they were invented at the end after all the serious fighting was done and were barely used AND they dogpiled the MAs

or

they made way more than 72 and just reused the names often

In any other scenario where they have serious opposition, most of the 72 produced should have wound up as piles of scrap with very few good condition or restored working examples still around.

I wish they gave us more detail on the war beyond 'boo hoo it was bad for 300 years also the legends saved us'

>>15789940
Gendum Frames aside the ones under Gjallahorn's custody are badly beaten. It just shows that they most of the time, fought against mobile armors and shit.

Seven Stars ancestors we're just lucky enough to survive the war, co married with several prominent people and established present Gjallahorn. Some Gundam pilots fought and died during the war while those not interested in politics went their own ways and just "vanished" from history. Some might have fought each other and died out as other anons have pointed out earlier.

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Iinda off topic does bael look like it has a very light shade of grey with purple to you?

>>15789039
I don't think there's anything that supports the idea that adults could get the AV before s 2 of ibo.

>>15790003
Ein was an adult.

>>15789940
Judging by how the Hashmal made most of it's MS kills by just crushing the cockpit my guess would be that the reason why there are so many relatively intact Gundam frames is simply because most of them that were lost, were lost simply because the MAs smashed their cockpits and just killed their pilots.

This would explain why the Barbatos was mostly intact apart from the cockit, which they replaced pretty easily with a mobile worker's cockpit. If cockpit replacements are this easy, then most other organizations capable of fielding MS shouldn't have any issues fixing up these MA-defeated Gundams.

I know meme-sters will disagree but the lore and world building in IBO was one of my favorite parts. The Calamity War is common knowledge in-universe but also very romanticized.

I wish they took it further with the mobile armors than they did (and I say that as someone who enjoyed the ending we got). I also really enjoyed the mythical quality that the Gundams had.

>>15789940
My interpretation of this is that the Mobile Suit was originally designed to take on Mobile Armors. Mostly via dogpile. As the losses mounted up the human armies needed more and more pilots and didn't have the time to train them. Hence the AV system.

Gundam frames, as far as I can tell, started when somebody realized they can get more out of the AV system then they usually used. Normally, this wouldn't do a whole lot since a mobile suit can't do too much but make a mobile suit frame with two reactors and the only limit is how much you can attach to it.

Anyhow, the title of Seven Stars came from those that killed an MA. Considering that there are 7 stars and 72 Gundams produced I'd say that the title's actual terms are either A. kill an MA and survive the war, B. Solo kill an MA, or C. both.

>>15790067
What would you say to an IBO prequel set during the Calamity War?

>>15790089
It's stated that at the very least Bael and Barbatos were created by Agnika Kaieru's father,after he created the Hashmal, so it's likely that he knew the mobile armors weakness and designed the Gundams specifically to counter them.

>>15790067
>the lore and world building in IBO was one of my favorite part
That's sad as shit. Makes me happy that you're in the minority because even people who like this garbage didn't care for it.

>>15787042
Nah, that was just their excuse. McGillis quite literally had guns to their head so they couldn't oppose him without consequence. If they weren't imprisoned they would have been on Team Meat. Being "Neutral" was their way of not helping him while keeping their lives.

>>15789940
>>15790053
>>15790089
Only 26ish of the 72 Gundam frames survived the war.

>>15790822
Pretty sure that's not what they said; it's not that 26 survived so much as only 26 suits are known about. Suits like the Flauros, for example, are not counted in the 26 official survivors.

>>15790053
Well, to be fair here, all of the suits that fight the Hashmal were either designed to fight it, or were built way later. It's quite possible that early mobile suits lacked nanolaminate armor to deal with the beam weapons.

>>15790003
>>15790042
Adults couldn't get the type of blackmarket Tijuana back-alley surgery that the space rats got.

What Gjallarhorn did to Ein, Gaelio, and McGillis involved specialists, clean operating centers, and high-end implants.

>>15789039

It's on Page 123 of IBO Mechanical Works. McGillis' AV system is the original Calamity War-era version that could also be used on adults. The one being used by Tekkadan is an incomplete version that requires three implants in order to reach the same effectiveness as the Calamity War-era version. McGillis only needed one in order to pilot Bael effectively since he got the Calamity War type implant. Also, IIRC, the page about AV system in IBO World and Mechanics I mentioned that the Calamity War era version did not cause any adverse effects if the nano machines failed to take hold in the pilot's spinal cord/brain. Meaning you don't end up becoming a cripple if the surgery fails, unlike the cheap one used on space rats. There's also a blurb on p123 that states that AV Type E is inhumane, and that GJ doesn't want its use to become widespread, which is why its use is limited to only Kimaris/Vidar.