Mikazuki Augus

He's intelligent, nihilistic and with a wicked sense of humor. Just like me!

>>15777739
He's the first protagonist to not give a fuck

>>15777739
Mikazuki is the coolest Gundam protaganist, he's not afraid to get his hands dirty and he's an absolute savage.
It doesn't matter that he had no character arc, agency or personality because that stuff is boring.
Mika just kills people unlike those peacefags and that makes him the best

he's just solid snake, super autistic soldier who doesn't really care about anything else but fighting

>>15777739
A spade who mated with a maid
That's it

>>15777739
He's the most recent yet only got 7th place? Yikes

He's Setsuna but boring

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He knew when to shoot his shot.

>>15777739
He didn't give a fuck. He didn't try to UNDERSTAND THE ENEMY, or cry about piloting. He just did what he was told.

If Orga told him to kill, he would without question.

He was just different from your typical Gundam protag.

Not saying IBO was a masterpiece of anything, but it did things differently with characters, compared to your typical Gundam show.

>>15777739
Because he was the edgy yes, I used that word "nothing personel kid" stoic killer. However, he sort of wasn't even the MC. Orga was.

>>15778092
On the contrary I think it's pretty impressive. Mikazuki isn't a very common character and he still manage the 7 place from all Gundam protagonists. Not to mention Mikazuki lacks a lot of things that make a "good" character but he's still popular

He dies?

>>15777739
Gee mikazuki, 2 girls?

>>15777739
he's an edgelord

>>15777739
I liked the first season on IBO and parts of season 2 but almost none of that had to do with Mikazuki

>>15777739
No idea why, his character was so boring that the gundam might as well have been on autopilot.

>>15777739
He was demonstrably broken.

The conditions of society led to him being a hard-working but disassociated youth, much like modern-day Japan. His relationship with Orga was compelling and complex, and not black and white logic - much like real life relationships. His fighting style and general philosophy was refreshing despite its baseness. And most of all, he doesn't escape his sins via magical plot armor.

>>15777739
He got shit done. I like the scene when he attacks Carta's unit while they are declaring a fight, standing outside their frames not even operating them. Seeing how flabbergasted they get was a nice change.

>>15777739
He managed to pass on his seed before he died unlike those faggots Amuro and Char.

>>15778137
It's really not impressive at all. The opposite really. The most recent characters always rank in the top five in these things because they're the new hotness and have the most current hype behind them. It's not just Gundam but pretty much any major series anime, video games, manga, it doesn't matter which.

>>15778094
>Setsuna
>Not boring

>>15777739
He might have been received more positively if he wasn't the main character. His autistic devotion to Orga and his orders is a nice insight into the psychology of child soldiers, though he seems to be the only one in Tekkadan to be that broken and (after a certain point, literally) dysfunctional to function in society other than a Mobile Suit pilot.

However he's not a viewport for the viewers into the world of IBO, a catalyst which enacts change, the subject of a character study, or the embodiment of the ideas of his environment. The only thing which makes him the main character is that he pilots the Gundam. Maybe a more solid point to argue is that IBO doesn't really have a main character or that the main character is in fact Orga, but the screentime ratios between characters beg to differ. He would have been an interesting side-character, but I just don't think he's a good main character because he fails in every way what's supposed to make a main character compelling other than the coolness factor of not giving a shit and fucking things up, but that's a shallow way to grade characters.

I hate his eyebrows

>>15777739

Mika is only really interesting in that he is so different from most other gundam protag who say "SPACEWAR IS BAD!" and "WHAT ARE WE FIGHTING FOOOOR!". That doesn't make those types of characters bad but it's a pretty typical trope that mika subverts.

Mika on the other hand got shit done, killed basically everybody in his way without remorse, fucked a lady and then went out fighting a battle they knew they were going to lose.

gjallarhorn were totally justified calling Tekkadan terrorists when they literally have a guy on the frontlines who kills indiscriminately and that (maybe unintentionally) insights large scale rebellion exactly like a terrorist would. It's an interesting plot thread that basically goes nowhere once you realize that gjallarhorn is just going to wipe them out.

He is an interesting take on the psychology of a child soldier. Unfortunately any plot that could have happened to him as a character is crushed by the larger overarching politcal plot by other characters

That being said Orga is way more of the main character than Mika. Mika is literally a side-character who just coincidentally pilots the series flagship suit.

>>15777739
Mikazuki couldn't even stand out in his own show

>>15777739
>It's not a mistery to anyone that Mikazuki is consider by many to be one of the best if not the best Gundam protagonist
It was a 'mistery' to me. Even people I know who like IBO don't seem to like the main Gundam pilot much.

>>15778353
>However he's not a viewport for the viewers into the world of IBO, a catalyst which enacts change, the subject of a character study, or the embodiment of the ideas of his environment.
I THINK he was supposed to be the very last one there, but as you said pretty much no one else in Tekkaden is fucked up in the same way as him, and the show seems to imply part of that is just his nature, not just him adapting to his environment.

>>15778371
>Mika is only really interesting in that he is so different from most other gundam protag who say "SPACEWAR IS BAD!" and "WHAT ARE WE FIGHTING FOOOOR!". That doesn't make those types of characters bad but it's a pretty typical trope that mika subverts.
You've never watched a Gundam anime before have you?

I am a bit torn about Mika about how to make Mika work to be very honest.

I mean, I agree with >>15778353
Mika would have worked if he'd been the Kallen to Orga's Lelouch. Important... but not enough so that he could be considered one of the leads. A dip into the psychology of child soldiers would have been good too.

At the same time, I think that Mika could have also worked if you either did four things.

The first is remove Orga entirely, either killing him off or not having him in the story at all, and had Mika and the rest of Tekkadan helping Kudelia both out of necessity (Money and what is likely their best chance of survival) and them trying to find a purpose in life. To be honest, I think the story would actually be a bit better this way, as it would give Mika's character a lot more depth.

The second way where you keep Mika as the main character is basically write him as a 'fuck you' to guys who unironically believe stuff like this >>15778047. The guys who write edgy fanfics about a main character becoming a total 'badass'. Essentially show how fucking horrifying that is, to have someone who lives for killing and seemingly enjoys it, all for a dream which isn't his own. Basically write Iron Blood as a character study.

The third is quite simple. Work with the idea that Mika experiencing life and building his morality based on that. Keep Orga around, but keep him as this sort of Gold Age Griffith character. One who the protagonist fights alongside, but at the same time is an antagonistic figure.

The fourth is basically making him a similar figure to Guts. A man who lives for killing, but begins to question his reasoning before trying to find his own 'reason for existing'.

>>15778508
He had the exact same background as everyone else

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Why did murder manlet have these feelings?

>>15777739
Nah, he just got a cool mobile suit. Big claws, gorilla arms, T-Rex feet and tail, that Gundam is a total killer!

I heard from somewhere that they created Mika to be someone which solves all the recent bemoaning about Gundam protagonists. Is this true?

>>15778530
>Mika is only really interesting in that he is so different from most other gundam protag who say "SPACEWAR IS BAD!" and "WHAT ARE WE FIGHTING FOOOOR!". That doesn't make those types of characters bad but it's a pretty typical trope that mika subverts.
>You've never watched a Gundam anime before have you?
Man, the people who spread the common perception of Kira have a lot to answer for, because I think this perception stems pretty much entirely from complaining about him (most other Gundam MCs struggle with their place for a while, but pretty much invariably resolve that it's necessary for them to fight). And that's irritating! Even more so because it's not even all that accurate: Kira is an awful character and rightfully loathed, but it's not because he's 'too wimpy' or because he dislikes fighting or killing (which would be a perfectly understandable way to feel, even), but because he's a massive narcissistic holier-than-thou hypocrite and because the show lauds him for it.

There's just this indelible image of him around the internet formed from second hand experiences that paint him as some namby-pamby goody-two shoes who whines about violence when he's actually kind of a loathsome little shit who refuses to consider other people's outlooks and who resorts to force to solve everything, and that's kind of the opposite of UNDERSTANDING.

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He was a flower blooming on the battlefield. The flower of death. Love how they added the spider lilly in his eye in the last Op.

I wanted the protagonist of g-reco to go as crazy as mikazuki.

>>15778952
no one mentioned kira yamato

if you believe what you do in kira yamato's character, then you wouldn't be suspecting the comment referred to kira either

>>15778694
>A dip into the psychology of child soldiers would have been good too.
I thought they were teasing at this being a plot point in S1 after that confrontation he had with Orga in the boat.
I was hoping they'd make Orga realize how fucked these kids are, but then nothing really happens with that and they just chug along.

>>15779181
>no one mentioned kira yamato
No one has to, for over the last decade the perception of Gundam protagonists has been twisted by Kira and idiots who don't even watch the source material and can't form their own opinions keep on pirating the idea that Kira was about understanding and peace.
On top of that they also get into their heads that all Gundam protagonists were like that which is incredibly stupid.

The only Gundam protagonists that were truly characters who desired peace were Banagher and Kio.

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Shoving your first into a cockpit and mashing up the enemy pilot is extremely brutal.
I like him soley because he does that all of the time

>>15778347
Setsuna but more boring.

>>15779228
>First
I meant fist
I'm an idiot.

>>15778347
His operator scenes and religious perception of Gundam was interesting.
But his personality was pretty bland most of the time.

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>>15779228
Agreed. The final battle scene where he tackles a graze, rips out the cockpit block and proceeds to smash it in his hand left me in awe. I think the blood looking liquid exploding from the cockpit as it got smashed was neat.

>>15777739
He was fucking evil and toppled Loran for the title of worst gundam MC

>in before Destiny haters /y/ne.

>>15779292
Considering the only person he killed that was somewhat decent was Crank, calling him evil doesn't really bear any weight.

>>15779181
Pretty much what >>15779222 said. Somebody mentioned 'Gundam Protagonists', and cited a misleading stereotype first attributed to Kira.

>>15779222
>The only Gundam protagonists that were truly characters who desired peace were Banagher and Kio.
You might also be able to make a case for Shiro, since he was quite content to bail on the war, his was just a more personal motivation than a big ideological one.

>>15779300
His superiors in ep 3 and that banker in ep 28 say hello, so yes there is weight, now go back to Anime Suki where you belong.

>>15777739
ask this in 5 years and see if he is even remembered.

>>15779311
>Reeee buzzwords

>>15779311
>That banker in ep 28.

You mean the guy who hired pirates to kill a group of major VIP politicians and businessmen out of spite?

>>15779401
He was still innocent and Tekkadan was way more evil, again go back to your masturbatory forum.

>>15779311
His superiors? The guys that profited from child slavery, those superiors? Decent?

>>15779228
>>15779262
Why is that good though?

>>15779310
>You might also be able to make a case for Shiro
If Aina wasn't a Zeon Shiro wouldn't give a shit about peace.
The only thing he fought for was his dick

>>15779460
Not them but it's just fun. Gets extremely close, reaches in and turns everything into goo, along with the sound of an enemy unit getting smashed all up close and personal. Makes you whisper a delicate 'hell yeah'.

>>15779467
I meant that he wanted peace personally (for himself), deserting to attain it, and had never developed a stake in the war, unlike e.g. Amuro.

>>15777739
>no whining
>no annoying pseudo-philosophical drivel
>piloted one of the most badass gundams of all time
>got shit done
>he was so good they had to give his enemies plot armor
>knocked up the childhood friend and got the Princess
>enjoyed piloting a giant death machine and fucking bitches
I liked him because unlike most other MC he wasn't a huge annoying faggot

>>15779460
Who said it was good? It was cool.

>>15779414
In comparison, yes. Man you felcher gundam defenders are the worst.

>>15779460
It kind of drives home how much of a fucking psychopath Mika is.
Like he's willing to turn someone into silly string without a moment of hesitation. I don't know about you but being turned into a meatball and having to be scraped off a mecha hand sounds like a horrible death

>>15779478
>enjoyed [...] fucking bitches
I don't think that's the case, he made those babies because that would make his precious friends happy, we don't know if he got any particular enjoyment out of the process, and he didn't care about the sex itself.

>>15779492
He thought babies might taste like ham, he is a fucking monster that earned his destruction.

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>>15777739
Looking back, Mikazuki was okay.

He fought for his friends.

>>15779498
Babies do taste like ham though.
haha don't ask how I know that my friend told me haha

Why are ANN maggots infesting our board again?

The latest innovation made by the Japanese for self insertion. Now instead of being a stock shy boy or bitch, the main character has no personality at all. Makes it all the easier for the standard neet to see himself as Mika because there's literally nothing to replace.
And because he's edgy with how hard he murders dudes, you get the attention of all those people liking REALISTIC and DARK and NOT AFRAID TO KILL main characters. Also he's a manlet so manlets can have someone they can admire.

Orga was the true main character. Mika was just his loyal dog.

>>15779222

Lacus gives Kira the Freedom in SEED because he's resolved to go to Earth and fight to end the war. She basically questions Athrun in to same mindset. They want to stop both sides from annihilating each other and the war from spreading and taking everyone out. Their desire isn't any different from Banagher or Kio. Or from Loran. Or from Heero. Or from Kamille for that matter.

>>15779841
>Heero
Was literally only doing it to accomplish his mission, he never advocated peace on both sides which was Relena's job

>Kamille
Also didn't advocate peace for both sides he just wanted to destroy the root of the conflict

People actually think this character was good? Even though IBO was shit it had some silver linings, but this guy definitely wasn't one of them, just a lazily written and unlikable psychopath. There was no kind of development or character arc to this guy, he was basically just a robot meant for killing from beginning to end. Maybe it was meant to be some kind of commentary about how child soldiers are bad, which might have had some merit if the writers didn't obviously want you to think he was a cool badass. He was like Heero Yuy except edgier and with no character arc. Probably the worst Gundam protag I've yet seen.

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did someone say murder

>>15779841
When discussing Kira people tend to include the events of Destiny. Which I think is fair, it is a part of his story after all.

I don't think he's contesting that Kira eventually decided on a reason to fight, rather he was questioning that reason. You'll note though that Kira just wanted to end the actual war, and once he did that was perfectly content to sit on his hands during the glorified re-arming period and watch the unresolved racial tensions reach a boil again and erupt into another one because nothing was done to fix anything. And that his stated solution to this is to keep doing nothing about it.

Getting back to SEED, it honestly felt more to me like the mounting emotional and mental anguish of Kira's experiences hit a peak when he threw down with Athrun, and he just kind of threw up his hands and stopped trying to make any sense of things himself, instead basically outsourcing all his moral reasoning to Lacus and doing what she advised because he believed she could be trusted implicitly, an attitude that carries over into Destiny.

>>15779871
>Maybe it was meant to be some kind of commentary about how child soldiers are bad, which might have had some merit if the writers didn't obviously want you to think he was a cool badass
Rather, it might have had merit if the show wasn't chock-a-block full of other child soldiers who shared a background with him and who were all, if not exactly healthy, still far more mentally sound than he was.

If the show was going for such a commentary (and I strongly suspect it was) then they really needed to lay it on a little thicker, because if it was meant to be subtle, with his normal behaviour being intended to be unsettling, then it missed the mark because...I guess people are just used to allowing for unusual behaviour in fictional characters. I mean, if you met Mikazuki in real life, whether or not you approve of him you would find him creepy as fuck, with his blank stare and his dead little eyes and his nonchalant disregard for basically everything and his lack of capacity for any emotion but explosively violent rage, but in fiction that effect is muted.

If we give the writers some credit, the ones making him out to be a cool badass isn't them, it's the kind of people who really, really like a character jus for having a callous disregard for killing instead of finding it at worst unpleasant but unnecessary.

>>15779916
>instead of finding it at worst unpleasant but unnecessary
We've had a bunch of those in gundam, a change of pace to no questions asked, just murder, was perhaps not a bad decision to make with a main character. Shame everything about IBO is half baked at best, since it didn't go quite as well as it could have.

>>15779866

> Heero

Muh puppy.

> Kamille
> just wanted to destroy the root of the conflict

He wanted to stop both the Titans and Zeon in the end, since both were contributing to the conflict disrupting people's lives, which isn't really any different from several other protagonists. Kamille's personality was, but his motivations weren't.

>>15779882

Lacus basically just serves him tea and acts as a shoulder to cry on for his recuperation. It's only when he resolves to go back to Earth and try to help the people he cares about that she starts acting as more, showing him the Freedom and starting to show herself as a political player. Kira's resolve is his own originally, it just morphed in to dependence and unquestioning loyalty as an apparent show of pure love at some point.

>>15779920

I think he meant to write "Unpleasant but necessary"

>>15777739

Mika was utterly flat as a character but he was by far one of the most competent Gundam protagonists in a long long time.

His honest failing in being stupid as hell made him somewhat endearing i suppose in wake of his constant ruthless kill after kill to pave the way for Tekkadan's rise to power, that got boring and gratuitous over time.

>>15779929
Ah, that's what I meant too, I hadn't even noticed the typo.

>>15779920
>>15779929
>"Unpleasant but necessary"
Yeah, this was what I meant to say, sorry.

Thing is, I have no problem with a character being willing to kill, even with them being jaded enough to it that it doesn't really affect them. But Mikazuki irks me for some reason. Maybe it's because murder is his first and only solution to anything, and that: 1. gets real old real fast and 2. is honestly kind of juvenile and embarrassing.

>>15779929
Yes! Boring and grauitious, that was exactly what I was trying to convey, thanks!

>>15779923
>an apparent show of pure love
This is kind of an aside, but I feel like I might have been far less judgemental of Lacus and her dynamic with Kira if they'd had even the remotest smidgeon of chemistry that would allow me to buy into this. But there's just fucking nothing because Lacus has to seem all perfectly perfect and pure. I would have taken an awkward blush, tripping over her words, a cheesy grin, anything! Anything that would break her character even once and make her feel more like an actual human. But there's nothing! They don't even sleep together! There was a scene with Lacus in a bed huddled up to something and for a glorious moment I thought it was Kira and almost bough them: in this vulnerable unguarded moment they were doing something completely mundane and normal that any couple might do....then I realised she was hugging an orphan because she has to look like a saint no matter how cartoonish, and Kira is sitting outside by himself staring off into the distance and brooding. Kind of summed up everything I hate about the pair of them in a microcosm really.

>>15779923
>Muh puppy.
Not disproving my point at all.

>He wanted to stop both the Titans and Zeon in the end, since both were contributing to the conflict disrupting people's lives, which isn't really any different from several other protagonists
Actually it is. Kamille didn't advocate himself as a peace bringer he just wanted to stop the root of the problem and just be done with. Every other Gundam MC has only thought for survival not to end all conflict at him, Kira sought himself as someone with the ability to change the perspective of both sides fighting by being a harbinger to not experience the same tragedy he witness during the Valentine War this meant attacking both sides of the conflict and not the true ringleader until the very end.

>>15779969

When MURDER is a characters primary personality you usually have to go about it in one of several different ways.

You got your edgelord schlock fest e.g MD Geist that's just going for pure visceral appeal

you got the tortured anti hero e.g The Punisher

The killer who learns that killing is wrong and seeks to give it up. I don't have an example.

And Im not even counting the guys like Snake who will kill in the line of duty or whatever because they usually have a personality beyond "Who are we killing today"

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>>15777739
>mistery

>>15779483
While Mikazuki was definitely brutal with how he killed them in the end, He had no reason to spare their lives, those soldiers had just been doing their a>>15779479
bsolute best to kill every member of tekkaden, so frankly calling him a psychopath for showing no hesitation on killing them is kind of missing the fucking point.

>>15779222
>The only Gundam protagonists that were truly characters who desired peace were Banagher and Kio.

And Loran, but I can't help but find the people who suck Kira's cock hate him with a passion for some reason. I think it's because people like Loran better and how Turn A's reception has improved since SEED's time making them jealous.

>>15780178
>He had no reason to spare their lives,

No one's saying he should spear them. He was absolutely right to kill them. The issue is that the fact that he can kill so easily is unnerving at best and PSYCHOTIC at worst and he never grows as a character around it

>>15780178
Also, aren't Tekkadan like legitimately a murderous band of notorious criminals?

>>15779525
Its because of Mikazuki being a yes-man and Orga's greed that majority of their friends are dead.

>>15780261
Yeah, Biscuit was the sole functioning brain among the lot of them and once he bit it, Tekkadan bringing about their own sticky end became a certain inevitability.

>>15780246
>The issue is that the fact that he can kill so easily
You know the entire "soldiers actually didn't shoot at each other in WWII" thing is a big myth that was published without evidence mostly for fame right? Soldiers have brutally massacred each other for millennia without batting an eye. The lack of fear is another thing though.

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>>15780241
Because Loran was never trying to be a harbinger of peace while he was a pacifist that wanted to stop both sides he at no point stopped fighting alongside the Earth forces it also helps that both the Moonrace and the Earth forces weren't bad so it was easier to sympathize with his plight whereas in SEED pretty much everyone is a piece of shit and needs to be wiped out and you wind up siding with Rau's ideology. Turn A benefits for being a much better written show with appealing characters where all of SEED/Destiny's faults lies within the characters and the setting being terrible.

>>15780246
That applies to just about EVERY character that atually kills someone in IBO, don't forget that most of Gjallarhorn frequently, and in some cases gleefully kill people without any hesitation whatsoever.
Dort for instance.
Hell I think Takaki is the only person to actually regret killing someone in the entire damn series.

He would be better as the big bad's personal lapdog

>>15780315
Dort wasn't exactly gleeful the only character we saw from that side was Gaelio and he was upset.

>>15780331
Note the "In some cases" Personally, in season one I only remember Carta and Orlis being particularly gleeful about killing, still doesn't change the fact that Gjallarhorn is apparently made up of sociopaths who don't hesitate to kill civilians just because they were told to.

>>15780040
I think Heero might fit into the character learning killing is wrong and seeks to give it up category, at least in Endless Waltz.

>>15780254
They were a known mercenary band, and were lauded as heroes for a bit. What irks me about the ending is that they end up destroyed and regarded as criminals, because they were framed. And even when they tried to get an out Rustal just tells them he has to kill every last one of them. Mostly Rustal having a complete and total victory seems wrong to me, the dude lied, manipulated, and murdered his way to victory and is ultimately rewarded for it.

>>15780254
Not really, if you actually watch the show then you'd see that they've literally never picked a fight just because they wanted to, every single time they were forced into it by an outside party.

>>15777739
I like him because he's arguably the most "soldier" out of all the Gundam protags. He doesn't moralize or give a shit about honor, he just follows orders and gets shit done. His fights also do a really good job of treating Mobile Suits like the pieces of combat machinery they are instead of the shining armor that other series sometimes do. There's more non-instant explosion mech damage in IBO than the other series, which makes it a little more realistic.

I also like the fact the the characters are all fundamentally broken. None of them are normal or ok. They're pretty solid depictions of the classic child soldier, especially season 1.

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>>15781025
So people who like IBO are every much the equivalent of people who like the SW prequels at this point.

>>15781025
All it just absurd as liking a character for using the products the sponsors asked the creators to place in their work.

Define him as a character because all of those attributes can be applied to anyone in tekkadan, pirates and gjallhorn

The thing is his character was just a person who piloted gundam just for Orga's sake till the bitter end, and we were never told why

>>15781399
Dude, Orga is Punished Snake and Mika is Ocelot. Orga creates a place for soldiers to just be soldiers regardless of origin (and take back some pride) and Mika believes in the dream so much he gives all he has to make it a reality. The fact that they're not entirely in the right and they get used as pawns doesn't take anything away from the dream. Reality is that they were pretty much set up to fail from the first episode.

>>15781408
>Orga is Punished Snake
>Mika is Ocelot
pls stop posting

I like mikazuki, but find the protag tandem of io Fleming and Daryl Lorenz to be superior in terms of what was likeable about mikazuki.

Io is murderous as a result of his personal desire to excel in warfare, and Daryl is a softer guy that doesn't whine and does what's necessary to survive. Both are products of war (physically for Daryl and mentally for Io) that have meaningful interactions with the circumstances around them thats more convincing than mikazuki's passiveness and the moral righteousness of the other gundam protags

>>15779880
The moment you realize Caim, even he cannot speak, has a personality, relatable and more likable than Mikazuki.

>>15781368
Wrong, the SW prequels were good, this was horse shit.

>>15781025
>I also like the fact the the characters are all fundamentally broken. None of them are normal or ok. They're pretty solid depictions of the classic child soldier

IBO was literally a story about frat bros failing at a mercenary startup.
None of them were "broken" outside of mika and some of the human debris.
The series isn't even consistent with how it handles child soldiers.

>>15779975

> Not disproving my point at all.

Heero felt guilty for killing innocents via his actions, and carried that guilt for years. His question to Wufei about how many times he'll have to kill that girl is really him asking when he can stop being a soldier/fighting, which is only achievable when there's peace. Put that together with how he reacts to the news that he killed Noventa and all the peace delegates, and that he gives a speech shortly afterwards wondering whether humans can ever escape war or whether fighting makes people feel accomplished and it's a pretty clear picture that he was fighting for peace. Especially since the literal mission of Gundams was to destroy Oz via an insurgency in order to garner peace for the colonies.

> Kira saw himself as someone with the ability to change the perspective of both sides fighting by being a harbinger to not experience the same tragedy he witness during the Valentire war

Maybe he did during Destiny, which I haven't seen most of, but he certainly didn't see himself that way in SEED. He decides to return to Earth to help his friends even when he has no mobile suit and it's then that Lacus gives him Freedom, and when Athrun turns up all he does is say that he intends to try to stop the war from escalating and that this might make them enemies again but he can't help that. Which is what pushes Athrun to finally help him. He spends most of the rest of the show just trying to stop the invasion of Orb and the complete destruction of the Plants, not trying to stop all conflict or anything. He just wants to stop the war by helping where he can in SEED. The execution of that desire is bad, but he's no different than Kamille in concept.

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He smells like death 24/7. Love this little psychopath.

>>15783434
Once again nothing you posted disproved my point and most of what you wrote is headcanon

>Maybe he did during Destiny, which I haven't seen most of, but he certainly didn't see himself that way in SEED
Hey dumbfuck! Kira's characterization in Destiny is a result of his development in SEED you can't just ignore it and say "he wasn't this way in SEED" that's the same kind of stupid logic Kirafags use whenever people point out how shitty his character is.

>but he's no different than Kamille in concept.
Its completely fucking different. Go watch Zeta before spouting garbage

>>15777739
Sure he was one the strongest MCs being a good pilot and getting shit/not giving a fuck, but that was it. He was barely a character at all and slightly similar as a stoic edgelord type of guy. IBO is just fucking bad my dudes.

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Can I watch this without seeing any of the previous series? It looks interesting.

Murder manlet, murder hobo, murder midget, murder cripple, murderzuki, The Devil of Tekkadan, potato sack.
He has the coolest nicknames of all MCs.

>>15785099
Its an AU of course you can watch it with out seeing anything else. It is its own setting with no connection to any other series.

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He drops his Gundam from space.

>>15778371
>"SPACEWAR IS BAD!" and "WHAT ARE WE FIGHTING FOOOOR!"
There is a good way to counter this trope, and that way was taken twenty years ago by the masterwork of Mobile Fighter G. IBO's protagonist is just as cringeworthy in a different way.

>>15787023

I love G Gundam, but G Gundam didn't tackle the issue at all; it completely avoided the issue entirely by coming with a silly reason that there was no war and then dealing with that in a serious way that drew the viewer in because it had verisimilitude.

He's the newest character, as soon as the next series comes everyone will forget he existed

>>15779167
Yeah, I still remember after his first two kills (which were accidental) many people went "just wait 'till he'll start killing people intentionally, the body count will be huge" and it never ended up that way. Good times.

>>15783690

> most of what your wrote is headcanon

Tell me anon, what do you think it means that finding out he killed the leaders pushing for peaceful solutions is probably the most emotionally affected Heero gets in the show? Why do you think he ponders whether it's possible for people to escape war only a few episodes later? Why was he pondering the killing of that child years later and asking Wufei about it?

> Kira's characterization in Destiny is a result of his developtment in SEED you can't just ignore it and say "he wasn't this way in SEED"

I wasn't ignoring it, I was abdicating on speaking about it because I haven't seen it. Would you prefer I try to speak with authority I something I have no experience on? That aside, there is no reason Kira can't have changed for the better or worse in the two years or whatever between SEED and Destiny. His characterization is still built on that in SEED, but it's not necessarily something you can't judge seperately.

> Go watch Zeta before spouting garbage

I really wish people wouldn't use such blanket defenses, it does nothing beyond pointlessly escalate discussion. Do you honestly believe anyone would actually take that advice at face value? Do you seriously think someone is going to read such a confrontational and substantively empty refutation and actually follow it? Even if someone you replied like that to hadn't seen Zeta, do you think asking them to not comment on it without seeing it in such a hostile manner will actually make them do so.

The main difference between Kamille and Kira as you're putting it is that Kamille had a specific target in mind to end conflict, Scirocco (and Haman to a lesser degree), while Kira was mostly trying to help his friends and stop things getting worse. Both were fighting primarily to end the current conflict though, even if it took Kira longer to get a definitive target.

>>15788062
>Tell me anon, what do you think it means that finding out he killed the leaders pushing for peaceful solutions is probably the most emotionally affected Heero gets in the show?
So emotionally affecting his expression never fucking changes
>I was abdicating on speaking about it because I haven't seen it.
Then your notion is worthless. What happened in SEED is pretty much worthless because it was before he came to his resolution at the very end WHICH IS WHAT PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT and yes you can judge it separately.You're stance is like using 0079 Amuro in an argument about his characterization in CCA you're a fucking idiot.
>while Kira was mostly trying to help his friends and stop things getting worse.
In the first half of SEED not everything that came after it but since you never watched Destiny what do you know.

>>15788405

> So emotionally affecting his expression never fucking changes

So emotionally affecting he puts aside his mission for several episodes to seek out the families of everyone he killed and give them the chance for revenge.

> WHICH IS WHAT PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT

The topic was started when someone started complaining about his actual portrayal versus the common perception of him. And they may have complained about the characterization in Destiny, but the actual characterization includes SEED too. Ignoring his portrayal in SEED so you can moan about how he's terrible because of Destiny isn't really any different when a lot of the common perception is founded in SEED in the first place.

> In the first half of SEED

And the majority of the second half too.

>>15777739
that whole series is shit tier. I nearly killed myself watching just the first 2 episodes. It felt like I was watching Shit Wing all over again

>>15779880
Caim should be a Gundam protagonist. I'd watch the hell out of that.

>>15788436
>So emotionally affecting he puts aside his mission for several episodes to seek out the families of everyone he killed and give them the chance for revenge.

With the same fucking expression and the same monotone voice and the same...
>And they may have complained about the characterization in Destiny, but the actual characterization includes SEED too.
No they were specifically about his characterization as a whole which includes Destiny. You're only talking about his characterization in the first half of the show because you have no even seen Destiny to begin with.

>. Ignoring his portrayal in SEED so you can moan about how he's terrible because of Destiny isn't really any different when a lot of the common perception is founded in SEED in the first place.
His portrayal in SEED isn't good to begin with because that;s where people get that misconception.

>And the majority of the second half too.
Wrong again retard

I liked him the little psycopath was entertaining as fuck. As a MC tough it could have been better.
The worse part of IBO is all the potential wasted, those good desings, the characters, the world... With a good hand it could have been awesome.

>>15779236

I think Setsuna showed a decent bit of personality in the first half or so of season one with him getting PTSD flashbacks at one point in a park early in the show or freaking out when Nena kissed him, but once the show established his personality they never really did much to reinforce those aspects and instead concentrated on showing him evolve out of that. Which is fine, but he never fully evolved out of any of those aspects. Which I personally like, since I don't think someone with his past should grow entirely out of his personality, but the execution, especially in season two, kind of pushed him becoming friends with Saji and it leaves him in a point where he's still defined by his past and stoic personality but not much is done to reinforce it and he never moves on. Which is just a kind of odd half way ground. I like the over all character, but it does have problems.

He was a good guy.

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>>15789209

> With the same fucking expression and the same monotone voice and the same...

He pretty much always has the same expression and tone of voice. Just because someone doesn't express emotion doesn't mean they don't feel it. Or are you telling me Heero felt no emotion at all when he saw he'd killed a child and her puppy, and that he just picked up the puppy and carried it's corpse around for funsies? And that his superiors wanted him retrained to rid him of kindness because he felt no emotions?

> No they were specifically about his characterization as a whole which includes Destiny

It also includes SEED.

> His portrayal in SEED isn't good to begin with

I don't believe I ever said it was. The closest I came to doing so was, if I recall, saying the concept was good, but not the execution (>>15783434).

> that's where people get the misconception

No, people get the misconception by attributing a lot of Destiny's characterization to him within SEED as well as Destiny. Characterization that he doesn't have, since he fights for rather human reasons to help his friends and stop the war from spreading and hurting the people he loves while trying to look at the bigger picture and find the causes (in this cause, Rau).

> Wrong again

In episode 34 he finds out that ZAFT are targeting the Alaska base while having tea with Lacus, then freaks out when he realizes that's where the crew of the Archangel are and tells Lacus he's going to Earth. Shortly afterwards in the same episode he says he'll fight because not fighting or doing anything would be worse than doing nothing. A few episodes in episode 39 later he's talking with Mwu he reiterates that he'll fight alone because it's all he can do. He spends the next chunk of episodes either fighting to protect Orb or fighting to protect the Three Ships while they try to come up with some kind of plan.

>>15794011
>He pretty much always has the same expression and tone of voice
Which makes everything you wrote headcanon.
>It also includes SEED.
Nope. Kira's development doesn't end at SEED.
>the concept was good
The concept is the same as every Gundam lead up to that point "I need to fight for survival" it eventually became "I want to stop all conflict" when he met Lacus later on which of course loed to the infamous scene where he refused to relay information to Murrue and Mu his comrades because he couldn't trust them.

>No, people get the misconception by attributing a lot of Destiny's characterization to him within SEED as well as Destiny.
All of his characterization in DESTINY started in SEED. The most character Kira displayed was when he threatened Sai all that came about in Destiny was him continuing on his streak he gained in the latter half with less crying.

>stuff
Good job nitpicking. I can do that too!

>>15777739
>What is that makes Mikazuki stand out
shooting prisoners in the face instead of spending 1/3 of the show crying about how he doesn't want to fight
That one scene where Orga's questioning the guy who sold them out and Mika just calmly asks "Why are we even talking to him?" and pulls his pistol out of his pocket.

I'm not saying that makes him better, btw, just saying that's what makes him stand out from everyone but Heero. What makes him stand out from Heero is his loyalty to his teammates and comparatively normal social interactions (compared to Heero, anyway).

Is murdermanlet the only gundam MC to have offspring?

>>15794164
Already forget the very concept of AGE?

>>15794177
yes

>>15794164
Seabook in Crossbone, IIRC.
Tobia as well.

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>>15777739
Because they try to use real history figure as MC but end up mixing with japan edgelord
yeah and more pathetic is gundam fans don't even figure out about this

NO ONE even japs themselves

>>15794916

Flit and Asemu both did in show, and Amuro had a child in Beltorchika's Children, which is about as acceptable as Crossbone for consideration given the formats and canon.

>>15794125

> a webm of a movie scene where his handlers say he needs to be retrained to rid him of kindness is now headcanon
> Include now means "ends at"
> reducing all of a character's personality to one moment you don't like
> describing several scenes where a characters motivations are on display is nitpicking

Oh, you're just a troll. Well, you could be an idiot too I guess. Either way it doesn't matter.

>>15794930

> a child soldier who is blase to conflict after a lifetime of it, doesn't care for people other than his comrades and wants to live only as a soldier because it's the only time he feels any self worth is based on a medical student from a decent family who became a revolutionary because he empathized so much with the suffering of a whole society

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>>15779478
>>piloted one of the most badass gundams of all time

>>15795213
>che was a gud boy revisionism
Lel

>>15795342
Pepes be gone

>>15795595
This is 4chan bro. Getting rid of the peps is as hard as getting rid of the moes or traps or bronies

>>15795196
>He's proving me completely wrong in every regard
>whelp better say he's an idiot and a troll just so I can stop talking to him.