Max in his blue VF-1 vs. Amuro in the RX-78 Who wins?

Amuro would fuck him sideways,I think.

Look at it this way, Max spent several decades not piloting and is well beyond his prime by 7. He still outpilots everyone else in the franchise with the possible exceptions of Millia and maybe Isamu. Amuro is great but if this is MSG Amuro and he's in his worst suit he doesn't stand a chance.

>>15732754

It's an unfair fight simply because the VF-1 is faster, more maneuverable and can properly fly if they're in an atmosphere. Unless you have a complete idiot in the cockpit a VF-1 is going to run circles around any mobile suit Amuro used, including the Nu. And Max is hardly an idiot when it comes to piloting. You'd have to give Amuro the F91 to be able to keep up with the VF-1 - though the F91 is a bit faster than the VF-1. It's probably off set by the lack of transformation and inferior agility however.

>>15732772

> maybe Isamu

If he's better than Basara according to you, then he's better than Isamu.

>>15732754
Max, Amuro is just for show

>>15732775
Give Amuro his Zeta

the question that this thread always boils down to is whether the vf-1's cannon can hurt the gundam

>>15732786

The VF-1 is a much faster and more maneuverable unit than the Zeta, even with the Zeta's transformation. It also probably has a higher flight ceiling.

>>15732791

The point that's always ignored is that even if for some reason it can't, missiles can and they can also be dumbfired even if you want to assume that a single mobile suit can output enough Minovsky particles to scramble sensors.

Why are people forgetting that Amuro is a newtype? Max would get sniped from a long range beam rifle shot before he would even get a chance to see him.

>>15732808

Why are you acting like Max has no reflexes of his own? Being a newtype is not and never has been a guarantee of victory, not even for Amuro.

>>15732808
Since when has being a newtype allowed that? Neither Kamille or Judau pull the shit you're suggesting using newtype powers and they're both a fair bit stronger than Amuro in that regard.

>>15732832
lalah sune does that exact thing
please dont be so aggresive

>>15732833
She does that with bits, Amuro is in the RX-78-2 which doesn't have those.
>please don't be so aggresive
>he thinks that was aggressive
Your first time here or something, mate?

>>15732832

Amuro is a much better marksman than either Kamille or Judau, or did you forget the time he sniped the bridge of the Sidori from miles away?

>>15732844
My point was being a newtype doesn't let people just become god tier snipers, most of Amuro's ability comes from his own skill. Besides, hitting a ship from an incredible distance is several leagues easier than hitting a VF-1 with a pilot like Max from the same distance.

>>15732844

Did you forget all the times he missed even after becoming a newtype?

>>15732791

Why is it never a question of whether the RX-78-2's rifle can hurt the VF-1 given that it has energy conversion armor, spends the entire show facing enemies using particle beam weapons, soaks up shots from them on occasion and is otherwise a tough unit that can do things like fall several miles through a couple of buildings with only last second thrust to break the impact and have no damage?

>>15732922
Because the RX-78-2's beam rifle is battleship class?
Fuck off retard

>>15732928

So what? By F-91 it'd be a pitiful weapon. Context changes how you view particulars, and just because the people in UC for that particular year thought it unstoppable doesn't mean squat because there's no reason to assume the people (or aliens) of Macross find it that way. Saying it's battleship class means nothing.

>>15732928
That's a mistaken assumption based off of one hyperbolic line by Char. There has never been any indication that the beam rifle even approaches the power output of the main cannons on White Base or a Musai.

>>15732935
>hurr durr
Impressive

>>15732797
>The VF-1 is a much faster and more maneuverable unit than the Zeta

>Zeta haters actually believe this

>>15732945

> implying I hate the show or the suit for saying something is technically superior than the suit
> implying it isn't true

The Zeta has nearly a third of the VF-1's acceleration and fights in SDF regularly cover more ground than those in Zeta. Not to mention the VF-1 has to be able to keep up with the SDF Macross, which can cover the distance between Pluto and Mars in a few weeks, which is at least a factor faster than any ship in Gundam bar the Sumeragi in 00's epilogue.

Amuro. No contest.

>>15732928
They refer to the beam rifle as a battleship class weapon because until then beam weaponry was only mounted on ships. You're also ignoring that even in the context of Gundam MS portable beam weaponry isn't always an instant kill, stuff like The O can soak a few direct hits and battleships need to be hit in critical locations.

>>15732954
>The Zeta has nearly a third of the VF-1's acceleration

Show me official numbers for this.

>>15732972

http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/MSZ-006A1_Zeta_Plus_A1

> Maximum Acceleration: 1.48 G

http://www.macross2.net/m3/sdfmacross/vf-1j-valkyrie.htm

> Thrust-to-weight ratio: empty 3.47; standard T-O 2.49

http://www.macross2.net/m3/sdfmacross/vf-1j-super-max.htm

> Thrust-to-weight ratio: (with FAST packs) standard T-O 6.36

I stand corrected, it's twice the Zeta's accelation on average, not three times. With a fast pack it's over four times the accelation.

>>15732808
>doubting Max
Max fucking ordered his guys to fire the Macross Cannon of the Battle 7 at empty space.
After charging, they fired the cannon, and an enemy fleet defolded in at the same time. You think he wouldn't fucking foresee a sniping attempt?
And its only possible if Amuro could keep up with him in the first place.

>>15732754
For Amuro to be able to keep up with the VF-1, he'd need to be in a far better unit than the RX-78-2. Even Magnetic Coating only goes so far.

Wouldn't you have to give amuro like a V2 or at minimum an f91 to even compete with a VF-1"

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>>15732754
First off all of you suxx at comparison .
You do not compare A & B with C & D equipment.
you compare them with similar equipment.
I was just watching Macross Plus , now that was a good comparison between Isamu & Guld in two comparable VFs .

Therefore both Max and Amuro must be put in either two RX78s or two valkyries to have a comparable outcome .

>>15732860
>>15732844
>>15732836
>>15732808
I think you are all getting it wrong or rather you forgot one advantage a Newtype has over a regular veteran pilot , they can use pressure to influence the outcome . EG: Char in the hyaku shiki + mega bazooka launcher tries to snipe the mofo in a huge pink battleship but was unable to due to pressure affecting his accuracy .

My personal conclusion is Amuro will have the advantage . IMO personally only a newtype can take out another newtype .

>>15733245

Your opinion is wrong, because Yazan killed at least one newtype and could have killed a much stronger and more capable one in Kamille a few times if not for outside intervention. Chan also killed Quess. There may be other examples I'm forgetting.

>>15733245
>only a newtype can take out another newtype
Explain characters like Garrod and Yazan repeatedly shitting on newtypes. Also Char, one of the more notable newtypes in the franchise gets his ass kicked repeatedly in Zeta, even by oldtypes.

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>>15732754
>Who wins?

Aside from the fact Max is a genuine ace (while Amuro simply stumbled into an overpowered machine), Macross is light-years ahead of Gundam in power levels.

>>15733245

I think it's more interesting to put them in units outside both their universes ; preferably ones that vaguely resemble both at once. The Overmen in Overman King Gainer, the Guardians in Sidonia, the Aestis in Nadesico or something maybe. Neither has the home side advantage that way.

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>>15733264
I'm not saying newtypes are invincible . .but quess allowed herself to be killed . . can you imagine Char doing that standing by getting killed .

>>15733264
nobody said Yazan couldn't be a newtype and not all newtypes are powerful . .

but we are talking about AMURO + newtype senses here .

>>15733325
yes that is much more interesting !


Imagine Max getting in between this fight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB89HFPsbDw

now if Max suddenly had Newtype sences then that be another story as you can see Char and Amuro anticipating each others moves 2 ~ 3 steps ahead . . .

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>>15733285
OP states VF01 vs RX78-2
so if you're implying VF22S vs RX93 with fin funnels . . oh boy prepairuranus for some 5D funnel raping >:D

now if back to RX78
does it soak up normal cannon fire like nothing y/n?
does the other guy have a beam saber y/n?
does he have infinite missiles that a newtype can likely dodge y/n?

the odds aren't that good if all the VF has is speed and agility but will have it's day ruin if you get brightslapped out of commission .

lastly which side has the honor of being called the WHITE DEVIL (連邦の白い悪魔)

vid related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpbS-hvcnlo

VFs run circles around any UC Gundam until like, fuck I don't even know, F91 or V2

>>15733362
>>15733448
You haven't actually seen Macross, have you?

>>15732754

Max literally shits all over him in any of his incarnations vs any of Amuro's

VF-1 >>>> RX-78

>VF-22 has shields, nukes, and a beam weapon

lollllllllll

>>15733285
>Macross is light-years ahead of Gundam in power levels.
Only if you ignore G Gundam.
This is the same discussion we have in every Macross Vs Gundam thread. Someone compares the two original series, someone else jumps straight into Frontier tech, and someone mentions G's physics-breaking wackiness that Macross can't actually touch.

Also you are legitimately misinformed. Amuro is an ace, and has one of the highest kill counts of the One Year War. Also the Gundam is only overpowered for the first half of the series, later Zeon units are able to match or exceed it (but not its pilot).

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>>15733448

> prepairuranus for some 5D funnel raping

The VF-22S can accelerate at something like 20Gs, has an unlimited flight ceiling and is fast enough to reach ground from space in minutes. Amuro can make the funnels move as fancy as he wants, he won't hit anything because by the time the funnels reach shooting distance Max could be in a different country

> normal cannon fire

Normal for 0079 and normal for SDF have no reason to be comparable. A VF has energy conversion armor that can take a volley of particle beam shots with minimal damage and even fall several miles, crashing through several buildings afterwards without serious incident; I think it can soak up normal cannon fire from a Zaku II as well.

> if all the VF has is speed and agility

You say that like having a massive advantage in speed and agility isn't enough on it's own. How often do you see prop planes downing jets in dog fights? Because that's basically the comparison you're making. A VF has an extra dimension of mobility on the mobile suit regardless, since it can actually fly.

>>15733476

> someone else jumps straight in to Frontier tech

No-one has mentioned Frontier besides you.

> someone mentions G's physics breaking wackiness that Macross can't actually touch

Only if you ignore 7, which has Basara stopping a black hole that's about to swallow the universe by singing really hard for instance, among other things he does by singing.

>>15733489
>Only if you ignore 7
7 isn't real, it's in-universe fiction. It's no different than 80's rock videos where if you rock hard enough you can change the physical properties of matter. G Gundam, on the other hand, is canon to the Black History and is the basis for the highest level tech in Turn A (the Moonlight Butterfly is made from DG Cells according to Tomino himself).

The only fair comparison in this entire bait thread is this...

Armuro with a sword

Max with a knife

>>15733510

> 7 isn't real

The cast of Frontier meet the cast of 7. Some of the events of all Macross shows are exaggerated for dramatic effect, but noone has ever said which. Saying it's an in universe show proves exactly nothing, since even in Frontier and Delta there's off shoots of the song energy introduced in 7 and we don't know which parts did it didn't happen.

>>15733285
Amuro isn't an ace?

News to me. He hopped into an unknown machine and started killing trained soldiers.

It wasn't all Gundam plot armor.

Remember him reading through the manuals and erring at first? He picked it up quickly, however, being an ace.

>>15733517
>fair
>giving Max a knife
Amuro came out of his duel with half a sword in his shoulder, Max came out of a knife fight with a wife.

>>15733489
So, a fast plane will out-run a laser.

Understood.

>>15733525
particle canon =/= laser

the fast plane though does have a laser

>>15733525
>Gundam beams
>lasers
Confirmed for not actually watching Gundam.

>>15733517
>Armuro with a sword
>Max with a knife
Maybe if you give Amuro a beam saber and Max a wooden spoon Amuro might actually put up a fight.

>>15733510

By that logic all of G doesn't count either, since according to the Turn-X manual every Gundam is a myth that may or may not have happened.

>>15733525

It doesn't need to since UC doesn't use lasers and the particle beams it does use are nowhere near the speed of light. It can outrun a funnel so that it's miles away by the time it reaches firing distance though yes.

>>15733529
>>15733528
Cute, but you're both harking on terminology.

Particle cannon, beam cannon, plasma cannon, whatever cannon.

It's drawn as a fast-as-light laser beam that doesn't take into account the timescale of the participants near it.

For practical discussion, unless of course we're talking about magical particles here, it acts and moves as if it were a laser in our reality.

Get bent as far as reading into franchise experience because of terminology used. I'm an old man.

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>>15733454
All early VF's can do is round around a more powerful adversary . . but if they get in range of a MS's deadly weaponry. . . chances r kaput

>>15733460
I'm actually a big macross fan !
started out watching robote . .pu pui pui.. . .
Saw Macross / macross DYRL / Macross ll / Macross Plus / Macross-7 / Macross F + movies and Macross Delta . .

Mylene Farina Jenius is my fav gurl btw :P
say something nice about her :3
yes she is a bratty little half meltran . . .

>>15733462
(you) really cant technically compare anything huh . . . here hold my Romulan ale !

the VF-1's armament is a 55mm gau MG the Zaku has 120mm MG and did absolutely JACK to the RX78-2's Gundanium armor .

If the VF1 and the Gundam went head to head at CQB the Gundam would win as it has 60mm vulcans and beam saber .

If the VF shoots it's 55mm MG at mid range the Gundam can stand there and absorb hits like nothing.

If the VF fires missiles Gundam can likely dodge them till the other sides run out of them .
PS: micro missiles aren't that powerful and you have limited more powerful high maneuver missiles which can be taken out by vulcan fire .

>VF-22 has shields, nukes, and a beam weapon

technically it's a barrier , nukes are special purpose . Has a good amount of micro missiles and High maneuver missiles but ...

If you bring out the VF-22S then it's contemporary should be the RX93 which has
beam rifle , bazooka , beam sabers , FIN FUNNELS that can become a beam pyramid barrier .

Also do enjoy your 5D Fin Funnel RAPE
lolllllllll gg

Haman in a RX93
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aZDSPrLUBY

pic is one Max's daughters , if it's one thing Max did beat Amuro is that he did raised a nice family !

>>15733534
>It doesn't need to since UC doesn't use lasers and the particle beams it does use are nowhere near the speed of light

Where is this ever explained? They certainly aren't portrayed or drawn in a way that shows off velocity, only lessening density as the beams turn off.

>>15733537
>It's drawn as a fast-as-light laser beam
No it fucking isn't, beam shots are dodged with startling regularity for something you claim is fast-as-light and are even getting shot out of the air by Uso towards the end of Victory.
>unless of course we're talking about magical particles here
What are Minovsky particles? You know, a staple of UC Gundam?

>>15732966
By Zeta Gundam had anti-beam coating had been developed. It was why Hyaku Shiki was blinged out.

beams in gundam

https://youtu.be/t7fM5B3-Tg8?t=53s

laser in macross

https://youtu.be/nZR_lGjtIHM?t=40s

>>15733537

> It's drawn as a fast-as-light laser beam that doesn't take into account the timescale of the participants near it.

So are the Zentradi's beam tech and VFs deal with them for an entire show so ignoring the in universe lore for on screen animation makes no difference. In fact, Max dodges beams at melee distance with no light and in a confined space going by DYRL.

>>15733545
Whenever someone is shown "dodging" beams it's just the pilot lucking out or getting out of the line of fire before the beam is shot, be it thanks to experience or newtype intuition. I'm not saying that the beams move at light-speed like >>15733537 said, but they obviously travel at a speed that far exceeds human reflexes or mach speeds. Given the nature of the beams, it'd be impossible for any person to avoid being hit by a beam once said beam is already heading into their direction.

>>15733538

> here hold my Romulan ale

Can hold it while pointing out, as someone does in every one of these threads that muzzle calibre means nothing on its own and that even I universe the Zaku gets a smaller caliber gun later in the war to account for superior armor, not a larger one?

>>15733548
The O didn't have anti-beam coating, the Hyaku Shiki was basically the only machine in the Gryps conflict with it. The O just had shitloads of armour.

>>15733567
>getting out of the line of fire before the beam is shot
And what's stopping Max doing exactly this?
>it'd be impossible for any person to avoid being hit by a beam once said beam is already heading into their direction
Early UC you would be correct but by F91 and Victory you get people doing just that like Uso at about 3:50 in embed related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lu1c-LtGhs
While I will concede Katejina was a fairly large distance away from him and Uso is far and away above your average pilot that's the sort of skill you need to be able to deal with to even hold a candle to Max.

>>15733534
>according to the Turn-X manual every Gundam is a myth
That is patently false.
It says "history is full of inaccuracies, and in the end everyone believes what they want to". That's nowhere near "every Gundam is a myth".

>>15733476
>>15733489

Guys I know it's my bad but lets keep the discussion in context please .

Max vs Amuro VF1 vs RX78-2

>>15733522
Max with a wife I chuckled there good joke man XD

>>15733519
NEWTYPE

>>15733489
The VF19 reached the outer atmosphere from ground in about 48 seconds , the VF are light and can accelerate with tremendous speed but . .

The 40 seconds you are with in range of any weapon and in this case 5x Fin funnels firing from 5 different arc has a low probability of survival imo .

>>15733577
But the VF's armor can't even stand up to its own gun. There's no way it could withstand a beam rifle shot, even from the earliest UC beam rifle. Max would have to get a PERFECT to win, because Amuro only needs to land one shot. Also maneuverability doesn't actually count for much against newtypes since Amuro doesn't need to aim where you are at the moment, he can reflexively aim at the spot you'll be in when the shot goes off. He was sniping funnels he couldn't actuall even see, and they're both highly maneuverable and far smaller targets than a VF-1.

>>15733603

What's the difference, because I really don't see one. Or any reason to argue that saying "history is full of inaccuracies" is any less an indication G is no more real than 7 regardless.

> Max vs Amuro VF1 vs RX78-2

You could put Katz in the VF-1 against Amuro and it'd still win.

>>15733606

> The 40 seconds you are with in range of any weapon and in this case 5x Fin funnels firing from 5 different arc

I wasn't aware fin funnels could hit space from the ground.

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>>15733577
If you want to do a decent comparison in our discussion we must .

the VF1's 55mm gau = Gundams 60mm vulcan
those vulcan rounds aren't weak either but the Gundam can take considerably more dmg then a VF1 .

The Zaku FZ got a 90mm MG later .

The King of Vulcan spam GP02A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbT52lIPHZg

>>15733593
to be fair uso is a newtype who is dodging before the shot is fired.

>>15733622
>Katz
>win
You do realize Katz lost to an inanimate object, right?

>>15733619

> But the VF's armor can't even stand up to its own gun.

It can however stand up to particle beams and high impact environmental damage.

> Max would have to get a PERFECT to win


Not actually outside the bounds of possibility with Max.

> Amuro doesn't need to aim where you are at the moment, he can reflexively aim at the spot you'll be in when the shot goes off.

Good thing max does it he same thing them i suppose.

> He was sniping funnels he couldn't actuall even see, and they're both highly maneuverable and far smaller targets than a VF-1.

The VF-1 shoots down droves of missiles, I don't think 5 bigger, slower funnels will be a problem.

>>15733623

> decent comparison

When are you going to start, because all you did was reiterate the same argument while acting like it actually means something.

Amuro and Max are closely matched but Max has more experience at high speed combat, though Amuro objectively has future sight.

That said a RX-78-2 is no way a match for a Valkyrie. Valkyries are too fast and apparently have infinite operational time. You'd need something like a GP01FB just to keep up with early ones and a V2 or Turn A to keep up with the later ones.

>>15733631

You do realize that's why I picked him right?

>>15733622
Katz could lose in manga Shin Getter.

>>15733626
He was still in the line of fire when it was fired and managed to intercept it as it was flying at him.

>>15733632
>max does it he same thing
So Max is a newtype now?
When did that happen?

Or do you just think that leading a moving target is the same thing as precognition?

>>15733643

No, he's just really good at predictions enemies. And he does it in 7, using a starship cannon when the enemy isn't even in the same system given they warp in. And no, it literally can't be leading the enemy because there's no enemy when he orders the ship to fire.

>>15733645
Predicting troop movements exactly is a great feat but it doesn't make him psychic and moreover he won't be able to block Amuro's senses with KONO PRESSAH

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>>15733622
Amuro only needs to close his eye and wait for the right time to shoot . .

Cmon . .there's the technical aspect and comparison between the two pilots .

I'm not saying Max will flat out lose , but he will lose in the very end . I'd give max winning 3 out of 10 engagements .

Guys it falls to us to create the environment for a controlled comparison :D

The VF does carry a good amount of weaponry it is fast and can reach battle fields quicker. It is also a mass produced unit .

To be fair in our Max vs Amuro discussion , Amuro would have to be in a RGM79C for Max to have a 40~50% chance of winning . The Gundam is OP in Amuro's hands .

If we put Amuro in the RX78NT1 then Max's chances just shrunk down to 20% . . IMO

>>15733643
>>15733654
>newtype sense=precognition
Did you not pay any attention at all? He could sense the bits because he had a deep connection to the newtype using them and the other cases of predicting his enemies moves are him detecting his enemies hostility. It's telepathy not actual precognition. You're also conveniently forgetting that it's outright stated the Gundam can't keep up with him and he still took hits in his fight with Char despite being the stronger newtype.

>>15733652

I'd he can predict an enemy that isn't even on the battlefield down to a measure of meters in the void of space he's indistinguishable from a newtype in practice. He also dodges beams in a confined corridor in the dark in DYRL.

>>15733654

Amuro would need to be in the F91 to make it a fair comparison. If Amuro is in a GM he'll flat out lose every time. A GM doesn't even have the armor to argue about. Better to put them both in a unit neither is familiar with, like a Machine Walker or something.

OK. I'm willing to give this one to Amuro if you admit that Macross is simply a lot more ridiculous than Gundam, even leaving technology aside.

>Newtype pilot does crazy shit thanks to their explicitly stated superhuman abilities
>DAMN NEWTYPE HAX OUT OF THEIR ASSES!

>Max does crazier shit while being a normal human
>THAT'S AN ACE FOR YOU!

>>15733510
nigger all of macross is in canon fiction

>>15733489
>unlimited flight ceiling
don't you mean unlimited missiles. to be fair RX-78 should not be able to move in space, it has no direction thrusters. So, comparing those two units specs are pointless.

>>15733537
>It's drawn as a fast-as-light laser beam that doesn't take into account the timescale of the participants near it.

nigga what?

>>15732776
>If he's better than Basara according to you
Not him but Max himself says in 7 that Basara may be a match for him now, but if he was still in his prime the boy wouldn't stand a chance.

>>15732808
Because Max is an inhumanly good pilot, he borders on gary stu with how perfect he is.

>>15733525
Well I mean if anyone can do it, it's a jenius.

>a mech in a setting where fighter can reach orbit in minutes
> vs mech that can't even fly
>can literally snipe the gundam while out of optical range
lol
>ever being a threat to a valk at all and assuming they're going to be fighting face to face to begin with
LOL

>>15732754
>that OP pic related
I-is that a girl? pls don't have a penis

>>15733672

No-one ever said Macross wasn't ridiculous. It doesn't even try to pretend it isn't. Max gets away with being almost perfect all the time because he's always a secondary character and the main character is far from perfect.

>>15733689

Max is also capable of overestimating himself or underestimating his opponent. Besides which I never said that Basara was better than Max, only that if Basara wasn't in contention then Isamu certainly isn't because Basara is a far better pilot than him.

anyone remember that the 55mm gau on the VF is not firing your typical low powered rounds due to the fact it has to overcome the energy conversion armor

overtech magic

>>15733705
>he thinks a character voiced by Show Hayami is a girl
Lurk more.

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>>15733702
>a mech in a setting where fighter can reach orbit in minutes
two very different machines .

> vs mech that can't even fly
still have to engage your enemy to finish the fight.

>can literally snipe the gundam while out of optical range
snipe with what ? 55mm MG vs a BLASH beam rifle ?!?!

>ever being a threat to a valk at all and assuming they're going to be fighting face to face to begin with
The point is moot if you do not want an out come one side must engage the other to have an outcome .

Lets take Macross Plus Isamu VS Gald scene on Earth . . those fancy flying at the end what if one side lost a wing and cant fly .

Your missile doesn't hit coz the other guy is good enough to dodge them so you have to CQB .

Good luck CQB ing a Gundam with a VF1

I'm >>15733672
>give this one to Amuro
I meant give this one to Max

>>15733723
>The Gundam
>being able to dodge the amount of missiles a Valk can fire
>being equipped to intercept them
What part of the Gundam being too slow for Amuro don't you understand?

>>15733723

I'd give the VF-1 the advantage in close quarter as well as distance given that it's still faster, more maneuverable, can transform on the fly to dodge (Max basically pioneered doing so) and repeatedly takes beam hits in the show without breaking.

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>>15733733
Watch this clip and tell me to my face a GUNDAM can't dodge missiles . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWXPIfSI6ZE

PS: the two idiots aren't even NEWTYPES

>>15733750
except those arent guided missiles
i think you forget guided weapons cant be used in minovsky particle environments

>>15733750

Not him, but both of them block or dodge beams after they're fired multiple times even in the first few minutes of that clip.

>>15733750
>posts Thunderbolt when we're talking Mobile Suit Gundam
>an OVA based on a manga where the author has outright stated the tech is not meant to be in line with actual UC
Also it's strongly hinted that Daryl is a newtype, why don't you try actually watching this stuff instead of just the fights?

>>15733723
to be fair the VF-1 cant go into orbit without an assist booster, but both the VF1 and the RX-78 gundam can return from orbit unassisted

>>15733756
>i think you forget guided weapons cant be used in minovsky particle environments
Only laser-guided ones, which is not the case here.

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This alone is more impressive than most anything Amuro has done really.

>>15733664
>I'd he can predict an enemy that isn't even on the battlefield down to a measure of meters in the void of space he's indistinguishable from a newtype in practice. He also dodges beams in a confined corridor in the dark in DYRL.

Not exactly. If you're in a battle even a normal person might be able to predict where bombers might fly in and take out a position or where reinforcements might land. What Max did was a cool feat but it's also taking a huge risk on guess work. Reality is that people have predicted and anticipated troop movements in lieu of hard data throughout history.

>>15733772
What? Lasers are one of the ones that do work

>>15733774
I think max fold jumping point blank for reaction weapon deployment was more impressive

>>15733772 Here
Sorry, >>15733756, I misread your "can't" as a "can."

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>>15733756
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
VF1 enters battlefield , Rader doesn't work missiles doesn't work . . thanks I actually forgot about minovsky particle environments :P

>>15733760
Gundam is Gundam . . . the BLASH XBR-M-79E Beam Rifle in 0079 still has the same power output in 0079TB it's not like they have AT fields or some shit like that it is comparable at best .

Also main motive was to show the agility of both Zaku's and Gundam .

>Also it's strongly hinted that Daryl is a newtype, why don't you try actually watching this stuff instead of just the fights?

I've seen them all , Daryl in this fight is not a NT yet but psycho assisted pilot .

strongly hinted
> strongly hinted
are you trying to imply something ?

someone mentioned how fast a VF can go . . mark 20 was it so they wanted to end up like Guld in his YF22 eyes popped and crushed because he went too fast ?

>>15733794
>Gundam is Gundam
>misspelling mach
>emoticons
Got it, you're retarded.

>>15733794

> VF1 enters battlefield, rader doesn't work, missiles doesn't work

Only if you have ships on hand to flood the battlefield; there's never been an indication that a single unit can do it on it's own. The closest I can think of is in G-Reco, and even then in required multiple Grimoirs releasing clouds of particles in a direct way that's never seen outside that one instance.

>>15733794

> Also main motive was to show the agility of both Zaku's and Gundam

And valkyries are more agile. They can and do dodge beam guns point blank by changing forms.

> someone mentioned how fast a VF can go . . mark 20 was it so they wanted to end up like Guld in his YF22 eyes popped and crushed because he went too fast?

Me, and Maxs' VF-22S has inertia dampers to prevent that.

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>>15733774
MAX fly in to a hole expecting the enemy to ambush him . . . quite likely from behind .

Actually gets shot at from behind . . . OMG closes eye pray and spray dance around shoot out the lights until RNG take one of us out . sure damm lucky .

Amuro chase a green suit NEAR it's ship , suits chickens in hiding same hole .

Amuro proceeds to empty entire beam rifle in to ship . . ship blows up with everyone on board . . clean kill nothing fancy . .

>>15733775

Some people may have predicted where an enemy will appear when there's a handful of entry points and some offer distinct advantages. No-one has ever predicted where an enemy will appear to within a matter of meters in an empty void with literally infinite entry points, most of which offer no distinct advantage.

Remember the time Max defolded onto the planet's surface right near the ground, something that generally gets the pilot killed, then just kept flying like he didn't even fold in the first place? And it was in a plane that he was only piloted for like the 2nd time in his life?

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>>15733833

> simplfying like that
> forgetting to mention that he was directing fire at an enemy in a space with no lights beyond those coming off his gunfire
> forgetting to mention that he point blank dodges beam fire for several seconds

Good try.

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>>15733850

>>15733843
Which is why Max is a genius and an anime character with nerves of steel. Still doesn't make him a psychic. He did it once in a stroke of genius but Amuro routinely knew of remote enemy presences and what they would do and even their emotions. The difference is the reliability of their abilities.

>>15733850
>>15733859
Remember that he's also aging and hasn't actually been a combat pilot for years at this point.

>>15733872
>Newtype shenanigans
>more reliable than inherent skill

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>>15733821
oh god I am talking to one of those robotech fan boys . the start calling names kind ? (you) actually got something constructive to contribute ? no ? got it .

>>15733827
So we're back to a controlled environment for our experimental discussion ?

Neither can hit the other so high chance of CQB . all the Gundam needs to do is brightslap the VF1 . (13 tons vs 60 tons )

>And valkyries are more agile. They can and do dodge beam guns point blank by changing forms.
lol obviously they are faster , I was implying the Gundam is also capable of dodging missiles especially with Amuro piloting it .

>>15733854
Except their sensors would pick up each other even in low light.

>>15733827
>The closest I can think of is in G-Reco, and even then in required multiple Grimoirs
Gundam 00
Yeah, I know...GN Particles and not Minovsky Particles but who honestly gives a shit?

>>15733872

I never said it made him a psychic, I said it made him indistinguishable from one and the distinction pointless because there's nothing indicating it was a one time miracle he couldn't replicate. Especially when he's routinely dodged beam particles at short or melee range.

>>15733882

> all the Gundam has to do is hit the VF-1, a unit that is faster and more agile than it

Good luck with that. The VF-1 also routinely fought units several times it's weight in SDF. Glaugs were 41 odd tonnes for a start.

>>15733883

You imply that in the split second when the lights went out before he was hit he went from visual data to exclusively relying on radar/sensors. Which is doubtful. It also wasn't low light, it was no light.

>>15733883
Doesn't matter, DYRL was just a movie. The actual fight happened in Macross City inside the SDF-1 as seen in the series.

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>>15733854
Plays Left For Dead 2 , directing fire at an enemy in a space with no lights beyond those coming off my gunfire , point blank dodges zombies for several seconds . . . .

> am Max Jenius tier ace
Got It !

>>15733903

That's like saying the Gundam movie trilogy doesn't count. DYRL is just as canon as SDF, and later works take several cues from it and just as much as from SDF itself.

>>15733854
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GpXUrmSbkY

Chris Redfield and random filler movie villain > Max

>>15733909

If you can do that then you are, in that particular, simulated environment. Congratulations. That doesn't mean Amuro is better, because you can bet your ass multiple people have done anything you care to name that Amuro has done within a computer game too.

>>15733882
>oh god I am talking to one of those robotech fan boys
Robotech fan here, end-of-series Amuro would PWN end-of-series Max. First-mission Max would have a heavy advantage over first-mission Amuro because Max already had dozens of hours of simulator time for the VF-1 and Amuro wasn't a psychic yet.

Mellowlink could take them both at once, though, with nothing but a rifle and a hydraulic jack.

>>15733916
haha Everyone an Ace now .
personally I prefer this fight .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzPdR1bRtBw

ada wong vs svetlana

>>15733916
>running in circles shooting the ground behind each other's feet
that was hilarious.
i'm sorry that i paid money for this movie, but kinda glad that i never got around to watching it.

>underestimating the 55mm gunpod
They tear up Zentradi ships with the fucking gunpod. Remember, Macross weaponry is stupidly powerful.

The armor of the Gundam being effectivr at all is doubtful.

>Macross VFs fly around at sonic speeds
>RX78-2 can jump
Like I know amuro is a death blender and all but the mobility is skewed so far on one side it's not even funny.

>>15733538
>Fin Funnels being an advantage against an ace VF pilot
VFs with a good pilot regularly take on larger numbers without breaking a sweat.
5D fin funnel rape? Experienced Macross pilots fight in the same 5D rape condition for breakfast, except its like 20 missiles and the guy that fired the missiles and his buddies on their ass everytime instead of a handful of funnels and a MS.

Then there's the fact that Ghosts exist and fighting enemies reinforced with Ghosts is about equivalent to fighting a squadron of individual enemies, while a Gundam+Fin Funnel is ultimately still 1 single human mind.
Funnels would simply be another target on the screen for the VF pilot. Does anything change? Not really, they deal with this shit regularly. Max in his first battle(where he just came out of basic training) takes on superior numbers on his own, comes out without a scratch and rakes up more kills than the protagonist right there.

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Max was checking out her tits while he was winning the video game.....damn

2:12
https://youtu.be/OpPDQsxici0

>>15734397
>takes on superior numbers on his own
Yeah, but the Zentradi were idiots. They just zergling-rush you with disposable battle pods. There is absolutely no comparison between the White Devil and Zentradi grunts.

>>15734351
The Gundam shrugs off 120mm Zaku machineguns like nothing.
The problem are the missiles, the VF-1 speed and Max being a literal genius well into his 40s, just watch that ep. of Macross 7.

>>15734439

I think his point is on the effect rather than the caliber, since caliber means nothing on it's own. The VF-1's 55mm autocannon destroys Zentradi ships that are all 1mile+ in length, while Zeon's battleships in Gundam are normally only about 250/300 meters in length. They still go down to the Gundams beam rifle mind, but the autocannon destroys ships that are half a dozen times the size or more, so it's effect is more visually immediate really.

>>15733712
>Max is also capable of overestimating himself or underestimating his opponent.
Not canonically.

>>15734531

Where's it established he is a completely unbiased source regarding pilot comparison out of interest?

This thread is what happens when people forget that Amuro has psychic powers, showing that literally no one on /m/ has actually seen the ending to the show

Skilled enough Oldtypes like Yazan push NTs shit in regularly. The tech is a lot far apart, even funnel spam is not that threatening to Valks especially considering the amount of shit being fired at them in a normal engagement. add En conversion armor, pinpoint barrier shenanigans as well as reflex/dimensional weaponry, and there would only be limited Gundam units that can be n the same league.

>>15734538

This post is what happens when someone thinks that being a psychic is the be all/end all and that it's an instant win card against any opponent, showing the poster hasn't actually seen the franchise at all.

>>15732754
Max by a mile. The VF-1 uses alien tech. The Gundam would look like it was sitting still next to a Valkyrie. It just wouldn't be a fair fight.

>>15734563
>The Gundam would look like it was sitting still next to a Valkyrie
And the moment you get a target lock on him, he spins around and no-look one-shots you.
You're right that it wouldn't be a fair fight, though.

>>15734568

Like all those times he no effort shot Char as soon as he was targeted? Yea, I remember how he always shot him down instantly and with no problem.

Why all of Max's daughters suck?

>>15734568
The RX-78 still has its limitations. Amuro was already damaging it because it couldn't keep up with him in 0079.

I'm not saying Amuro wouldn't win if he was given an even, or even closer to even suit, but not in the first Gundam.

It would be like saying Manfred von Richthofen in a Fokker dr.I vs. Joseph C. McConnell in an F-86.

>>15734594

Skill isn't genetically transferred.

>>15734594
Turns out fucking a hot alien chick means retarded babies.

>>15734571
Yeah, let's just ignore all those people he *did* do that to and focus on the guy with the heaviest plot-armor in the franchise.
Sure.

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>>15733525
He literally dodges lasers in 7 with his VF-22S.

>>15734606
Let's also conveniently forget plenty of the non-newtypes that gave Amuro shit and didn't go down instantly.

>>15734606

> let's just ignore the one guy he consistently fails to do that with because apparently him failing to kill a skilled opponent repeatedly has no bearing on whether he could one shot another, different, skilled opponent

Good idea.

I have confidence in Amuro's abilities but putting up the Gundam against a Valk is just crazy.

>>15732754
Max definitely has the range and speed advantage here. Close range probably Amuro, I doubt the VF-1 can shrug off a beam saber, that's IF he can get a hit in. Maybe Amuro might get in a lucky shot on Max if his newtype powers activate. I doubt the RX-78 can eat the missile barrage. Max wins, Amuro was dealt the losing hand in this unfair scenario.

>>15734632
>failing to kill a skilled opponent repeatedly
>Char
>skilled

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>>15734594
Not all of them.

>>15734644
That's the crux of this issue for me. Amuro is the better pilot and freaking psychic, but his machine just isn't equipped to fight a Valkyrie.

Pairing the pilot and the machine creates two different arguments with two very different outcomes.

>>15734653

> Char repeatedly gives Amuro longer, tougher fights than any other opponent
> in their last fight makes Amuro use up all his weapons, personally destroying several of them and putting it down to a fist fight
> not a challenge

>>15734598
If we're giving Max his blue VF-1J, we should be giving Amuro the magnetic coating upgrade, these are the end-of-series versions of both characters, so the
>damaging it because it couldn't keep up with him
doesn't apply here.

>>15734666
>a fist fight
Is that what you call one guy ripping the other one's throat out with almost no resistance? Amuro fucking STEAMROLLS Char in CCA.

>>15734668

I don't believe anyone ever specified Max would have a VF-1J instead of a VF-1A. The only difference is there's two head lasers instead of one on top of a fancier paint job anyway if I recall. It's only really applicable for shooting down missiles and even less of an upgrade than the magnetic coating so I doubt it'd really make a difference personally.

>>15734673

It's what I call it when both units are punching each other. Which is what happens in the finale of their fight. It's only a steamroll if you ignore the previous ten minutes and act like Amuro punching the Sazabi's head off is the totality of the fight.

>>15734536
Macross has a really realistic KD ratio as far as anime go-- IIRC Focker, the most famous pilot in the damn Spacy, had only like 30something downs. No other character, named or otherwise, has the same undefeated streak Max has. This guy is a fucking god. He's totally carefree in the heat of battle and just wrecks seasoned Zentraedi on scales that even other protagonists are shown to do. This dude is like 18. When confronted by Millia, who was on the same bullshit level to the Zentraedi, he doesn't once register her as a threat.
He is not shown once to overestimate his opponent, as he already knows the outcome of the fight. I don't mean in a tactical sense, this guy knows he's the comic relief character in an 80s cartoon, so he's already read the script.
He matures with the position of leadership, which would change how he approaches dogfights; but if we're talking 18yo Max Jenius there isn't a robot pilot in sci fi who can beat him. The only way to would be to use characters like Jesus Yamato (who would lose, but magically survive and then kill some civilians).

>>15734419
The point is that, VF pilots take on superior numbers regularly.

Adding funnels to the fight just puts Max more into his natural environment.

>>15734715

None of which is a canonical source for him being an infallible source of pilot appraisal, especially in comparison to himself. Just because he doesn't over or under estimate opponents in one show doesn't mean he's incapable of it later in life/another show

>>15734668
The only variant that is really an upgrade is the VF-1S Max gets in DYRL though. 1S has a more noticable performance difference than the difference between the 1J and the 1A.

>>15734736
MAHQ has all three VF-1 combat variants (A, J, and S) as having the same performance outside of the number of laser barrels. Though logically they A should have marginally the best performance as it should have less weight due to just having the single barrel.

For some reason I thought Max used a D. Not sure where that came from; D is the trainer model, right?

>>15734762
Yes, D is the trainer.

>>15734715
>in order to win an argument I'll denigrate this character by saying he's a joke looney tunes character!

Time to stop. By the same logic Jesus Yamato would survive and come back in something that shits over any Valk Max has and then shit all over him in a fight and then win the show flawlessly. And Kira would have more meta authority because as a franchise Gundam dumpsters Macross in monetary value.

>>15734743

The VF-1S Super Valkyrie is basically the code for a VF-1 with fast pack if I recall.

>>15734776
No, Fokker's VF-1 was a 1S and he had it from Ep 1. I think it was the only 1S shown for quite awhile.

>>15734776
The Super Valkyrie is the FAST, the VF-1S is the regular Valk with the four-laser head. In the original series, the only one of those you see is Skull One which is the overpowered prototype, and in DYRL all the VF-1S you see are using the FAST so there's no real way to know if those VF-1S are actually any more high-performance than the VF-1J other than the addition of the FAST system. It actually seems to be just a rank designation and/or excuse to sell more toys.

Max is the cancer killing /m/.

Max is the One Punch Man of mecha ace pilots and should be left out of vs. threads.

Even Chirico has an explanation for his bullshit.

>>15734877
The fact that looks like a pussy makes everything worse.

On top of that, if you get to know in real life any guy who goes by Maximilian Jenius/Sterling online, you'll find out every single one of them are assholes.

>>15734821
1S is the commander variant.
The one Roy had wasn't really stated to be any special.
Iirc the 1S(like all commander variants in Macross) has slightly higher thrust than the other variants.
I'm pretty sure it being a super prototype is a robotech thing.

>>15734906
>001
>not prototype

>>15734886
It's true. This was my first online handle in the 90's and I was an asshole.

>>15734877
>Max is just a joke character like OPM!
>SDF Macross isn't one big show that serves as an excruciating and expertly executed set up for the punchline

You're saying that he's a bad joke that fell flat.

>>15732754

General consensus is that the VF1 is the superior machine, but its unclear how well its gunpod will deal with the Gundams armor, since both the Gunpod's ammo and the Gundam are different kinds of fictional space supermetal.

If Hypercarbon is on par or better than Lunar Titanium, the Gundam gets chewed to ribbons by a faster opponent that can engage from further away.

If the LT can shrug off the Gunpod, Max will have to either find a way to trade up for a weapon, or get creative to have a realistic chance of beating the Gundam. That said, Max could probably just fly at the Gundam and slam the VF's arm into the Gundam's chest for a win. The Gundam itself would be fine, but the pilot inside would be all sorts of messed up from that.

Amuro's newtype powers basically don't matter in this fight. Max has been shown more than once to accomplish feats by pure skill that even a Newtype would find hard to match.

A 'rusty' Max got dropped into the middle of a firefight with a near suicidal quick insertion maneuver, took out a dozen enemies, and flew through a confined tunnel (where even a simple piloting mistake would have resulted in a crash and burn) avoiding barrages of beam weapons from multiple directions in a single run without slowing down. This took him less than a minute from start to finish.

Max literally wouldn't even notice funnels. Being attacked from 10 directions at once is the easiest fight he's had all day.

>>15733525

Yes, actually. This is canon. In Macross Plus, you absolutely CAN dodge lasers controlled by an AI that attacks with beyond-human aimbot precision. And these are actual lasers, not Gundam's slower-than-light minovsky beam tech, which are blasts of hot gas.

>>15732772
>>He still outpilots everyone else in the franchise with the possible exceptions of Millia and maybe Isamu.

Isamu asked who the hell were those blue and red VFs zipping by in the Wings of Goodby novelization.

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>>15734954
While max dancing around with his fancy gay moves, Amuro does a simple maneuver and shot him down. Didn't have to use his newtype power. IMO, Amuro is more skilled pilot, VF1 can go fast, but both in gearwalk and robot mode are weak against RX78. So, what we have now just a mecha vs airplane. An airplane can't do a 360 quick turn right? RX78 can, that alone has huge advantage over the VF1/airplane.

>>15734954
Hypercarbon and Luna Titanium are definitely in the same ballpark, and unless one is much stronger than the other I say that they should be considered equal, just for the sake of these powerlevel arguments. Although I'm not as familiar with Macross as I am with Gundam so I do feel like I'm giving Luna Titanium a bit too much credit, considering that it's been shown to melt due to high heat while VFs can survive reentry without any special systems. But I guess that can be attributed to the VF-1's plane mode, and the flying armor + Zeta's Waverider mode are also able to handle reentry.

Regardless, I'd argue that the Valk's gunpod should be able to pen Luna Titanium. The Gouf Custom's 35mm machinegun was able to pen the Luna Titanium-armored Guntanks, and crunching the numbers for the GU-11 shows that it delivers a damn respectable amount of kinetic energy per second http://www.macross2.net/m3/macrosstechman/tech-gunpod.html. I doubt the Gouf Custom's is even near that.

No matter what though, Amuro's going to be hard-pressed to win a fight against Max simply because of the beam rifle's limited ammo. Newtype or not, Amuro still misses shots against contemporary MS/MA throughout his piloting career. With Max in a Valk dodging shots shouldn't be a problem at all. And beyond the beam rifle the Gundam's got very little for Amuro to actually use in this fight. Unless Max lets him, Amuro's never going to be able to get close enough to use beam sabers (or even the beam javelin), and Valks have shrugged off far more punishment than the head vulcans can put out — again, that's assuming Amuro can hit Max with them. The hyper bazooka could work, but once again there's ammo and actually hitting Max to deal with. Besides, if the RX-78-2 gets its hyper bazooka then I see no reason why the VF-1 can't get missiles.

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>>15735144
Why can't Max dodge in this situation, especially when Amuro's not using his newtype abilities?

>>15735144
>360 quick turn
You mean, 180?
A plane can't do that.

A VF can, even if its not using battroid.
Fighter into partial-gerwalk(legs down), turn and thrust vector till 180 turn is done, hell, it'll work for any quick turning the VF needs to do.

>>15735144
>An airplane can't do a 360 quick turn right?
If its in space, any VF can do a 360 degree quick turn.

>>15735144

> Amuro does a simple maneuver and shot him down

Amuro has never, ever done this against any skilled opponent. He's only ever done it against mediocre scrubs at best. Even by Char's Counterattack he can't do it, and misses several times against mediocre oldtype pilots like Rezin if I recall.

> VF1 can go fast, but both in gearwalk and robot mode are weak against RX78

Why, exactly? There is nothing the RX-78-2 can do physically as a robot than the VF-1 can't do in battroid mode, as well as being faster and more maneuverable. For example, the VF-1 can switch from plane form to robot form in less time than the Gundam needs to turn around, even after the magnetic coating (0.9 seconds compared to 1.1 seconds), never mind turn around.

> An airplane can't do a 360 quick turn right?

If it's in space, it can. If it's on the ground it won't be a plane and if it's in the air it won't have an opponent since the RX-78-2 cannot fly.

>>15733510
The one that isn't part of the canon is II, not 7. It was retconned into a parallel Universe or something.

>>15736176
None of it is canon. That's Kawamori's cop-out about continuity errors, he said that all Macross shows are historical fiction and none of the shows are what actually happened.

>>15736854

Alternately it's his justification to fanboys to stop worrying about continuity and just enjoy the shows regardless because he wants to make them without having to worry about whether something he could do is going to contradict a previous work and obsessively work within the constraints of canon.

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>>15736176

>>15734954
>>15735148
Hypercarbon is used on warship hulls like the Macross. The VF-1 uses heat resisting Space Metal and Energy Conversion Armor.

>>15735648
>> An airplane can't do a 360 quick turn right?
>If it's in space, it can.
This is the only way to play Elite: Dangerous. You should also be listening to intense eurobeat.

>>15732754
VF-1 uses technology from aliens.

RX-78 uses human tech.

Which do you think will win?

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>>15741121

>>15732808
>Why are people forgetting that Amuro is a newtype?

And Max is piloting a machine based on ancient alien technology.

It's like a flintlock gun vs an assault rifle here.

>Max in his prime vs anyone
Max in 2059, where he's like over 60 years old, flies so goddamn well that even motherfucking Isamu(who has the feat of soloing Earth's defence net alone and getting through the defences) are impressed.
Max in his prime would destroy Amuro with his skills, and newtype shenanigans will not save him because even Gundam itself shown that skilled pilots can outpilot newtypes.

The real question is .. Max vs Graham Aker who are both in flags

>>15745211

> even motherfucking Isamu(who has the feat of soloing Earth's defence net alone and getting through the defences)

Isamu neber "solo'd" the defence fleet, he never even tried. As soon as he arrives in Earth space he details his plan, which is to turn off all power and appear to de debris as he drops to Earth. When it's pointed out by the scientist guy with him how that's a suicidal plan that relies on luck, Isamu says luck is one of his skills and goes for it. That is on no way solo'ing the fleet. Guldeford did the same thing by the way.

>>15745412

> Guldeford

Guld even, fucking autocorrect.

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>>15733538
>CTRL-F 55mm
>tfw when some retard is stupid enough to compare a 120mm gun to a 55mm gun knowing only the calibre, apparently oblivious to the fact that IRL smaller calibe often means far more deadly. eg .5.56 vs .45 acp

Every fucking time.

>>15747834
>apparently oblivious to the fact that IRL smaller calibe often means far more deadly
That's not how it works.

>>15747834
You don't understand the reasoning behind what you are saying. The generally the more the velocity the more damage is caused. There is more velocity because the rounds are lighter but that is not a straight rule. There are many factors. You can just say smaller caliber means more deadly rounds. Also >rifle vs pistol

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>>15748185
>pistol

>>15748197
>doesn't know that it fires a pistol cartridge

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_ACP

>>15748210
>implying

Everyone knows that retard. Doesn't change the fact it was used by the military in machine guns. At this point you're just arguing for the sake of arguing when anybody with half a brain knows that it's fucking retarded to compare two weapons on caliber alone.

>>15734410
Yeah. He's that good. I'm pretty sure he would defeat her even if he was fapping with the other hand, but of course, can't do that in a public place.

>>15732754

Depends.

If it's not Amuro at the end of original MSG where he awakens then Max wins.

If it's Amuro as he was at the end of MSG then he wins, he doesn't even have to kill Max he became so awakened into seeing everything at once that it would be impossible to hurt him.

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>>15747834
>>15748133
>>15748185
>>15748197
>>15748210
>>15748250
> eg .5.56 vs .45 acp
WTF ?
the gap in that calibur from 55mm to 120mm is so large you are comparing a auto cannon cartridge to an arty shell modded for auto firing.

Every fucking time.

>>15750686

Except Amuro, even after the end of MSG, regularly misses shot against enemy pilots that are only somewhat better than average.

His newtype abilities are not insignificant, but they are pretty clearly fallible. There is nothing, NO-THING, that Amuro has fought that's as fast as a VF1. He is going to have a devil of a time landing a hit even with newtype powerups, because the Gundam isn't actually designed for fast pace space combat, and a Vf is.

Max can change mech modes and blow away 3 zentradi approaching him from different directions in the time it takes the Gundam to pull a 180 degree turn.

>>15734410
Max isn't a newtype... he's something far greater.

>>15750900

He's a Nutype, not just for show.

>>15750900

That makes me realize, if Max was in UC everyone would assume he was a newtype.

I wonder how often that happens in Gundam. Someone attributes a pilots skill to newtype bullshit when they are really just freakishly good. Everyone I can think of who got called out as a Newtype invariably turned out to be one.

>>15750931
Considering that he answered with "A genius' intuition" when asked how he managed to accurately predict when and where enemy reinforcements will defold in and order to fire the Macross Cannon right before they defold in, I'm pretty sure he probably would be mistaken for a newtype in UC

>>15750931
I don't remember Uso doing any magical space bullshit and people called him a newtype constantly.

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in the last episode of MSG , Char was hiding somewhere near the A Baoa Qu base and Amuro suddenly showed up out of nowhere and he just shot Char point blank to Zeong's chest , this whole sequence lasted less than a second and it was impossible feat to do unless you already knew exactly where the enemy's position was.

I don't see Max was able to pull out shit like this.

>>15753462
The difference is Max would have dodged.

>>15753462
Char was shooting at him from that spot. Amuro ducked out of sight to close in, popped back out and fired at where Char had been literally standing still for the past like 30 seconds. While it was pretty cool it's more a display of Char being poor at fighting than Amuro's skill or newtype senses.

>>15753462
>you already knew exactly where the enemy's position was.
Max ordered the Macross Cannon to be fired at empty space.
When they charged the cannon and finally fire the cannon, enemy reinforcements defolded in at the location they were pointing the cannon.
When asked how he knew when and where they were coming, he answered, "A genius' intuition"

>>15745211
Where did this happen?

max is awesome and i would want him to win but that beam rifle is bull shit strong

>>15753536

Novelisation of the films if I recall. Isamu briefly appears in the second film but he's never even shown, just his plane. The book has him wondering about who's piloting planes that are obviously belonging to Max and Millia.

>>15732754
Whoever the writer wants to win...

>>15753573

I think you mean

> Whoever the sponsors and producers want to win

>>15753538

Is it? Do we ever see it do something bullshit strong besides actually penetrate armor? Which doesn't make it bullshit strong, just bullet strong, and working as advertised. I'm not even saying it didn't happen, just genuinely curious since I don't recall any instances off hand but am aware that doesn't mean it didn't happen. And I mean the RX-78's generation of rifle now, not one from 20 or 50 years down the line developed off the back of that technology.