Hard science mecha?

Is there a reason all these guys who get their panties in a bunch over realism in a fantasy cartoon environment come to the board about fantasy cartoons involving physics and logic defying machines to ask questions which are inherently explained by "because it looks cool"?

Not a bait but a genuine noob question here.

>>15702440
Your almonds seem to be quite activated

>>15702427

>>the realistic mecha meme

just watch Boston Dynamics videos on YouTube why are you here

>>15702427
Literally watch MSG 0079.

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>>15702449
>tfw asking actual questions gets you called out
Have I wronged you somehow?

>>15702427
A hard SF approach tends not to work well with classical mecha. There's stuff that tends towards a more realistic approach, but I'd be surprised to find anything that reaches the level of scientific accuracy of, say, The Martian. If you're really focused that kind of thing, you'll be disappointed; if you're ok with a few impossible things and most of the rest makes sense, there's a bit of that.

>>15702427
Watch Flag. It tries to be very realistic.

>>15702449
>genuine noob
>activated almonds meme
yup, checks out.

>>15702427
To actually answer your question:
if you want maximum, completely physically accurate, "first chapter of Red Mars" hard, it doesn't exist. if you're looking more isaac asimov, foundation-level "it's possible but not now or anytime soon" or clarke's rama/2001/fountains "it's possible but we also through in some supernatural/alien stuff", VOTOMS or 0079 might work for you. But really giant robots are never going to make practical sense. The mode of locomotion is not that valuable and the square-cube law puts a logistical limit on size.

HARD SCIENCE FICTION IS A STYLISTIC CHOICE AT BEST AND AN OBSESSION AT WORST.

>>15702427
Patlabor and FLAG, I guess.

Honestly you're in the wrong genre if you're expecting hard SF. Mecha by its very nature is rooted firmly in soft science fiction. It's a genre that routinely tells the square-cube law and laws of motion to suck its dick.

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>>15702517
>HARD SCIENCE FICTION IS A STYLISTIC CHOICE AT BEST

Anon, there are two types of hard scif: One is fiction about science, like 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, which is about the sciences of maritime biology and oceanography being put front and center with the help of a plot device submarine. The other type is "Around the Earth in 80 Days", which is about telling a fantastic story that's being achieved by modern, already-existing technology.

EVERYTHING ELSE IS VARYING LEVELS OF MUNCHAUSEN PULLING HIS PONY SO HARD THAT HE ACHIEVES FTL TRAVEL.

>>15702427
VOTOMS tries harder than most.

>>15702427
Being very honest with you, I doubt that you will find a mecha anime with really high degrees of realism on it. My personal advice would be to you to low down your standards so you can enjoy anime, mangas, comics, or movies at all. Otherwise I think you will be a bitter chap who cant enjoy anything, because there will be always something, in this kind of media, lacking in realism.

You maybe would like to check Planetes, and in a lesser degree, Flag, anyway. They may slightly fit in what you want.

>>15702539
>EVERYTHING ELSE IS VARYING LEVELS OF MUNCHAUSEN PULLING HIS PONY SO HARD THAT HE ACHIEVES FTL TRAVEL.
hating on that sounds like some fagass turk talk

>>15702545
I'm not hating because I agree that it's pretty awesome. It's just not hard scifi at all.

>>15702543
>VOTOMS
>The ninjas in space-series about the ascend of a new god

>>15702427
>hard science fiction genre
As a physicist, hard science is still bullshit science. Not realistic in anyway.
If you want realism, then watch documentaries.

>>15702573
At least he didn't say Gasaraki

>>15702427
Not really, but check out Moonlight Mile.

>>15702539
Precisely. Hard sci-fi is fun when it is used as a way to apply present or very near future technology in fictional challenges or as ways of conduct mind experiments, but the keyword is FUN. Any science fiction without a sense of wonder and aw is tryhard edgy garbage. This is not a controversial concept, because even grimdark settings has a certain wonder, so it's always baffling why certain strains of sci-fi fans insist that everything must be as nihilistic and dry as possible.

So how hard did Domon pull his Gundam to generate that much dramatic tension and character development?

>>15702581
>implying that most documentaries accurately represent anything resembling "reality"

Are you high, or did your fingers slip when you tried to type "academic journals" or "encyclopedia"?

>>15702642
He's probably some retarded spic, anon.

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>>15702427
Ghost in the Shell, Patlabor, and FLAG.

Appleseed for the most practical mecha design bigger than powered armor, pic related.

Black Magic (OVA) for some cool scenes of a cute android murderbot.
Black Magic (manga) for that but worse and with a bunch of retarded, confusing, unrelated bullshit before and after it.

All You Need Is Kill has realistic powered armor, but pretty unrealistic aliens, and it's a time loop story.

Gundam 0079, 0080, 0083, 08th MS team, MS Igloo, and Thunderbolt, there's some totally impossible shit but in other ways it's more believable than 90% of sci-if settings, even the impossible stuff tends to follow well thought out and consistent rules, the main problem with the setting's realism is that outside of giant robots a lot of stuff is ridiculously low tech for something set hundreds of years in the future.

VOTOMS for more realistic mecha, Dougram for a more realistic setting.

Front Mission.

Deus Ex.

Metal Gear for a fairly believable alternate Cold War/2000s setting where every once in a while a 60 foot tall nuclear equipped mecha and some asshole with superpowers walk on screen for five minutes, also conspiracy theories.

Obviously lots of old science fictions books involving robotic shit, 'Starship Troopers' and 'Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep' for examples.

And most of the realism-fag mecha designs you'll find come from artwork on Pixiv and Deviantart, along with plastic models like Maschinen Krieger stuff, and various other obscure artists out there.

>>15702545
>fagass
That is probably the least insulting insult I've ever heard. Practically elementary school tier.

>>15702658
>spic
What could you possibly have read from his post that gave you such a specific assumption?

Jesus Christ this board gets dumber by the day.

Is mecha even a genre by itself?

>>15702584
>Gasaraki, which takes place entirely on Earth in actual country with on the nose politics and even a dose of combined arms here and there is less realistic than VOTOMS, an intergalactic space journey, just because some spooky Noh armors are relevant for like 3 episodes

>>15702898
Not unless you think Doraemon and Tekkaman Blade deserve to be grouped under the same label. Calling mecha a genre is like calling anime a genre

>>15702898

>>15702898
It was, and still is, more a central element in determined shows. It somehow evolved to be considered a genre.

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>>15702543
>>15702573

Childhood is looking for realism in fiction.

Adulthood is realizing that giant fuckoff sniper rifles that drain the entire power of a nation and robots kicking monsters so hard they explode in an array of gore are cool.

>>15702427
>Is there such thing as a "hard mecha" genre like there is a hard science fiction genre?

No.
Next question ?

>>15702535
>It's a genre that routinely tells the square-cube law and laws of motion to suck its dick.

If we're talking about giant 17+m tall robots that can compete with Superman then yes. If we're talking about power suits that are slightly bigger than the pilot then no. For instance Shirow's Landmate concept is much more realistic than any Gundam or giant robot concept.

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>>15702898
Yes. In that a "mecha" show is a show that concerns itself primarily or at least in some significant part with mecha as a motivator for conflict, a plot device, and something more than casual visual dressing. You can say that it's just a simple element, that mecha is to the science fiction genre as a magic sword is to the fantasy genre - it's simply a common object. But really it's expanded beyond that, because we consider works that span other genres, like Big O, Dunbine, GGG, and Dougram, as just as or even more similar to each other than they are to other works in their respective genres (mystery, fantasy, and science fiction, respectively). Because japan and, to a lesser extent, the west, has explored mecha so thoroughly that it has become the prominent focal point of so many stories. Stories which are now better described as "mecha stories" than anything else - and this categorization I would say is the basis for calling mecha a genre.

But still, it's tricky. Some stories have a small mystery without being in the mystery genre. Many stories have mecha without really being in the mecha genre - but because we're the only ones consuming and talking about this stuff, we don't know where the definition ends; how large should the genre be? It's a blurry line.

>>15702543
>VOTOMS tries harder than most.

No it doesn't. We might as well say that SPT Layzner tries harder than most. But it wouldn't work either so...

>>15703144
>You can say that it's just a simple element, that mecha is to the science fiction genre as a magic sword is to the fantasy genre - it's simply a common object. But really it's expanded beyond that, because we consider works that span other genres, like Big O, Dunbine, GGG, and Dougram, as just as or even more similar to each other than they are to other works in their respective genres (mystery, fantasy, and science fiction, respectively). Because japan and, to a lesser extent, the west, has explored mecha so thoroughly that it has become the prominent focal point of so many stories.
What a load of horse shit. In no way would I consider Big O more similar to Dougram than I would to Batman

You're also full of shit in saying that works with mecha always have a mecha as a focal point of the story. This is simply not the case. It's casual visual dressing about 85% of the time. In the vast majority of shows, you could replace all the mecha with the characters that used mecha having super powers instead and nothing would change. The aforementioned Dougram, GGG and Big O all being examples, and probably Dunbine as well, but I haven't watched Dunbine so I can't confirm. And of course there's the matter of shows that do have mecha but don't have them as a focal point, prime examples being stuff like Gatchaman and Iczer, or even stuff where mecha are a background element or a side character, like Yamato, Captain Tylor, Space Dandy, etc.

Watch more and absolutely lurk more.

>>15702427
I'd hesitate to call Patlabor "hard sci-fi" but I always felt it was one of the more realistic depictions of how mecha would work.

>>15702573
To be fair, the new god thing only comes up in like the last part of the series. I wouldn't have seen it coming if I hadn't heard of it previously.

That said, I can't think of much media, even hard science fiction, that has the amount of attention to detail you'd like, OP. Even hard scifi novels like The Forever War tend to wave away the mechanics of FTL travel so they can concentrate on thematic elements (how people react to being away for immensely long periods of time). The only thing I can think of is Children of a Dead Earth on Steam. It's a scifi spaceship war game. but the simulation there is so accurate that you spend more time calculating trajectories so you don't run out of fuel than actually pew pewing.

>muh mechanics
definitely a newfag question

>>15703220
Dunbine doesn't necessarily require mechs, but it needs some sort of advanced tech element. An arms race is a big part of the setting.

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>>15702427
Well, you can`t have "hard science" mecha. You can only limit the amount of "magi-technology" in them. If you want some "realistic" mecha experience, try looking for Patlabor, Gasaraki, probably Blue Gender or something along the lines. Not completely magic-proof, but at the very least, those series try to look plausible. As a general rule, look for compact mechs, that sticks to the ground. Heck, even golems from Break Blade, who literally works on magic, are more plausible, than mobile suits.

Using giant robots to combat isn't realistic to begin with. I don't know why do you want to enjoy mecha if "because it looks cool" isn't explanation enough to you.

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For fuck's sake, /m/.
Learn to use the fucking SAGE option for once and stop bumping absolutely obvious bait threads.

It's science-FICTION you retarded ape. If any sci-fi uses nothing but current technology, it's not sci-fi, it's just another movie set in the presence.

>>15702508
>>15702544
>>15702795
>>15703233
>>15703533
Thank you all for your answers and recommendations. I'm gonna start with these shows. Patlabor sounds like one of the kind I can really enjoy. I'm also pleased to have a debate engaged about the definition of the "genre".

>>15702581
Your post made me chuckle. Yeah, probably gonna do that as well.

>>15703294
What part of "noob question" didn't you get, retard?

>>15703647
>sage anything that I don't like so I can live in my safespace
>I resort on the belief that science-fiction has nothing to do with current or past technology so I can justify my lack of knowledge

Fiction always internalizes parts of reality, simply and solely because writing fiction occurs in reality. Some of us just like when the implementation is rich and heavy. Deal with it you idolatrous moron.

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Always remember Clark's third law
And as answer to OP's question, pic related

>>15703668
I thought your question was fair OP.

People just got triggered because "muh realism" is common bait and a frequent reason given by other anime fans who hate the mecha genre while they go and watch more "realistic" stuff about magical lolis instead.

>>15705623
Nice strawman, but the people who circlejerk about muh serious gritty realistic war anime usually loathe magical girl shows as well.

>>15705641
He was talking more about retards like you can find on /a/ that dislike all giant robots and use realism as the reason even though anime as a whole is about as realistic as /a/ ever becoming a good place to discuss anime

>>15705661
I go on /a/ almost every day and I've never seen anyone say that. Nanoha and Symphogear have a ton of fans and threads on /a/ and everyone on /a/ knows that those two are basically mecha shows but with girls.

>>15705677
Because /a/ will pretend to give a shit about anything so long as they can ask each other which girl has the best feet

>>15702427
If you want hard scifi in the sense that an attempt is made to explain decisions and abilities impossible to modern engineering, I'm gonna throw muv-luv out there in addition to UC gundam. There are still psychics, mad scientists, and absurd design aesthetics, however the creators of both franchises make determined efforts to explain why mecha are used in the universe, and why other existing technology wouldn't suffice, without the scenarios being so contrived as to seem deus ex machina towards their mecha bias.

If you want hard scifi in the sense that pretty much everything introduced is possible within the limitations of immediately available technology or a conservative near-term extrapolation... the first 2/3rds of Robotics;Notes comes to mind.

If you want engineering porn within a scifi context: http://www.adastragames.com/products/bundle-objects-in-motion-the-hot-equations Is an excellent treatment of what everyone gets wrong and how to fix it.

>>15705725
>If you want hard scifi in the sense that an attempt is made to explain decisions and abilities impossible to modern engineering, I'm gonna throw muv-luv out there in addition to UC gundam.
Macross also has a somewhat decent attempt at explaining away the VF's.

>>15705641
I wasn't intending to strawman or even insult fans of magical girl anime. "Realism" is just a common thing people say to dismiss mecha anime out of hand.

>>15705729
The part where they're just alien technology or the silly part where they wanted their jet planes to turn into giant infantry because the aliens were giants?

>>15705739
Yes.

Also the way that VF's are produced is pretty realistic as well, like how grunt units like the VF-1 and VF-11 will have several different variations, incremental block upgrades, and flight testing competitions (like the Supernova AVF competition). Some of the other bits like how the engines can switch between in-atmospheric flight and outer space are decently explained as well.

>>15705725
>without the scenarios being so contrived as to seem deus ex machina towards their mecha bias
>UC gundam

>>15702427
Giant mechs never make realistic sense because it would be like taking a tank and putting the thin section vertical instead of horizontal making a huge shooting target with maximum thickness at the edge your not going to be getting shot at in normal combat (top). A giant ball (heavy object, still not remotely realistic) or tank (realistic, low profile is better) makes much more sense. In space/air non-humanoid combat vehicles would make much more sense so flying/space mechs are also unrealistic. (Space is 3d and barely needs walking on rough surfaces the main advantage of a legged robot) Even tanks nowadays are pretty out of date as foot soldiers are more often needed in cities if you don't want to destroy everything and go through human sized doors. Even powered armor or mech infantry make no sense as they will make more noise than a squishy meat bag and stealthy operation in building is critical. The other problem with robots made of metal is that most buildings and surfaces can't handle the weight even from human to giant sized they would absolutely wreck roads, weak floors, ... making it difficult to get anywhere.

If you have magic technology (complete gravity control, magic shields, super light impossible materials, ...) then mechs can work but that is outside realism and you can safely ignore trust to weight ratio and all of physics. Hard sci-fi is also not usually very realistic either if you look closely which is what your asking for here. Fiction by nature requires a suspension of disbelief and technically speaking if it is fictional then it isn't entirely realistic. Basically it is unrealistic for you to ask for proper real science/engineering in fiction as that is extremely rare. Just assume mechs are par for the course just like FTL is common in scifi but has little to do with reality.

>>15705913
>Even powered armor or mech infantry make no sense as they will make more noise than a squishy meat bag and stealthy operation in building is critical.

That's like saying a jet plane is useless because you can hear it coming

>>15702427
Mecha, is unrealistic to begin with.

>>15705919
The jet plane provides a tangible benefit to the battlefield that outweighs the heavy costs of their use.

Mecha as depicted in anime are always seen used as a combination of a tank and an infantryman. This means they can't do either job very well, whilst introducing even more complex maintenance requirements and training.

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Titanfall seems kind of realistic. They based parts of the mecha off of modern day tanks.

>>15705919

jet planes are supersonic you retard, you don't hear them coming.

>>15705966

Titans are about as realistic as Gundams.

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>>15705966
If the designers would make the Titans somewhat less "overengineered", read litered with meaningless gribbles, that could work. Thinking a bit about armor protection, ease of maintenance, etc would be good too. Titanfall is a good day and somewhat fresh look. However, VOTOMS, HeavyGear, early Knightmares (before magik mumbo-jumbo was involved), TAs from Gasaraki - those looks more "plausible design", than Titans.
For example - why hind legs? Is there a reason to use reverse-joint? No. Where is the engine? We got exhausts, we got some sort of fuel rods, but literally all internal space is occupied by cockpit! Sensors on most titans have a huge amount of blind spots, because they are placed to "look cool", and not to be practical. The list can go on and on. Still, I liked Titanfall. Titanfall 2 singleplayer campaign especially.

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>>15706033
>>Titanfall is a good GAME and somewhat fresh look.
Fucking microsoft autocompletion.

>>15703289
>That said, I can't think of much media, even hard science fiction, that has the amount of attention to detail you'd like, OP. Even hard scifi novels like The Forever War tend to wave away the mechanics of FTL travel so they can concentrate on thematic elements

This. OP is just bait.

>>15703668
>yuh safe space
Fuck off back to tumblr, pol, v, tv, reddit, or wherever you came from.

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>>15706033
The designs in Titanfall would look so much better if they just got rid of the greeble, got rid of the dumb claw feet with terrible ground pressure, and made them less gray.

I really want the simplicity of Northstar Prime's limbs combined with regular Northstar's spherical torso.

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タイタンフォールは性能は別にして発想はパトレイバーやフルメタルパニックに近いからな

>>15706054
比べるならフルメタルパニックの方だろ

>>15706068
And a chin chong nip nong to you, my dude.

>>15706033

Whenever someone says a western design is "realistic" it almost never is for many of the same reasons you describe. Like battlemechs. I'm so fucking sick of people pointing to chicken legs, exposed joints and impractically slow movements and cockpits that move up and down 10 feet per step and calling them realistic. And it usually comes with some kind of air of superiority as if its somehow more realistic than a 100 ft tall super robot that runs on literal magic. I know that's not exactly what's happening here but we have these kinds of threads with those kinds of posters like once a month and I've been here since 2007 and need to vent whenever I get reminded of them.

Someone please post that page from 20th Century Boys where the CEO BTFOs the toy division.

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>>15706054
"Claw feet" are somewhat reasonable. Sort of rapidly deployable anchors on uneven terrain. TA from "Gasaraki" had a similar function (piston-driven anchor bolt in the foot). Ground pressure is a problem for all bipedal mecha, so you can`t repair the problem, without equipping your mecha with ski. Foot surface of titans is more or less in reasonable range. At least they wouldn`t drown fast on normal, not muddy ground.

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>>15706090
Chicken legs are somewhat reasonable, because thay are easier to controll and maintain (fewer joints, fewer servos, simpler travel path). Hind leg, with reversed second knee joint - isn`t.

>>15702427
>hard mecha
Picture extremely unrelated.

ダチョウの足を言っているのか?
性能として優れているが、中の人間の動きを伝えるなら人型関節の方がいい気がするが、titanの足は人より関節が1つ多い、理由と性能向上は解るが

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>>15702427
>Hard mecha
Spaceships are technically mecha.


Even though it would likely make more sense to use unmanned drones and lasers to deorbit space debris IRL it is some seriously good quality scifi.

>>15705844
I'm not saying they weren't contrived, just that the reasoning was more than just to SellCoolToys. Example:

"To create cinema you have to rely on the structure of each scene. Normally within each shot you tend to need two points (allies and enemies) to focus on to make it work. Such as you and I for example. However, if you are going to make a story based around a war in space, how can you frame a scene like that? As the setting itself is so vast in terms of the distances involved.
So you have things like radar, which can detect an enemy's position, but that means you won't be able to get these objects into the scene. This means if things don't get closer to one another, they won't be able to fit into one shot and it would be impossible to depict the drama.
To solve this problem, my team and I came up with the idea of the Minovsky particle. When this was distributed across large areas, you couldn't rely on radar or detect where the enemy might be. This meant the forces had to come closer to one another in order to fight.
By inventing this particular setup, we were able to create something equivalent to the depiction of a cinematic (and theatrical) drama within this space war scenario. That meant within the next 30 minutes of the story, due to the Minovsky particles the forces had to fight in close proximity to one another. This wasn't done because I necessarily wanted to make a story based around a space war itself but was invented purely for cinematic purposes." -Tomino, 2017

>>15706313
So really, M Particle is the DRAMA particle.

>>15702427
>(for instance, thrust-to-weight ratio is fucked or never explained).
If you want explanations for all that shit (like how stuff doesn't collapse under its own weight) then you want Knights & Magic.

they use magic

>>15706336
Suddenly UC Gundam makes a lot more sense.

>>15706030
>you don't hear them coming
you only hear them after they came

>>15706336
>So really, M Particle is the DRAMA particle.

Gundam's greatest secret lol.
The UC is full of technobabble on the level of STTNG and Minovsky particles is its central core. A bit like "remodulate the shields in STTNG".

>>15708781
TNG is much worse about it and substantially less consistent.

>>15708781
No, I don't think you know what technobabble is. Technobabble is intentionally incomprehensible obfuscatory-handwaving. Minovsky particles and I-fields are internally consistent within UC gundam. They are explained to the audience in an effort to clarify technical and tactical concerns such as those OP expressed. They are jargon.

>>15702427
the only settings I can imagine for hard science mechs to be sensible are either on the moon (wheels suck in low gravity because they depend on traction, and also moon dust is basically like ground glass and will clog up and quickly destroy axles or any necessarily exposed thing that has to repeatedly rotate)
and a far future earth where most of the battlefields are leveled city ruins where the ground is so broken with toppled skyscrapers and mechanical wreckage that wheeled vehicles can't navigate it at all.

>>15708781
UC never tries to impress away the layman's skepticism with technobabble. In fact UC's explanations are dismissive and are one step away from just plainly telling the viewer it's for the sake of the show. Minovsky particles are honestly more like magic or the supernatural than actual tech, even the way MSG just pops it out when necessary. It's a drama in space, not sure why people insist it tries to be anything else.

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The most unrealistic part of mecha anime to me is that the military would allow pilots to have crazy anime hairstyles
hell to the naw

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For me the lack of realism in mechanics doesn't come so much from the mecha themselves but how they're used and whose piloting it. Watching teenagers piloting unstoppable death machines gets boring after a while. Personally I'd like to see a Gundam series or any other mecha like pic related.

>the mechs are a component of a larger military force rather than nigh invulnerable gods of war
>the protagonists are assholes who shit talk the enemy, their commanding officers, and themselves to stave off boredom and build comraderie
>the enemy is hopelessly outgunned and outmanuevered, so the series is less about large battles and more about dealing with the locals and scattered resistance with only one or two major battles the whole series.
>Fruity Rudy in anime form

>>15710685
Isn't that basically FLAG and MS08th team (for a bit)

>>15710690
I like FLAG and 08th MS a lot but they're not quite at what I described. They're very close to it though.

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>>15710690
08th MS Team has other, serious issues. The war it may be presenting might be more realistic, but even ignoring the characters in the war you get shit like this and the Apsalus 3 (its engine is IIRC the equivalent of three Dom engines stapled together and it wrecked a fucking mountain in a single shot.)

>>15710724
Those were mostly to run its Minovsky craft systems. I doubt it was supposed to be capable of continuous fire.

>>15710724
>the entire village scene will forever be complained about and mocked for that one dumb moment even though without it realismfags would say it's the best action scene in the entire franchise

God dammit, 08th was so close to being excellent UC grunt kino but fucked it up with unnecessary shit like dodging bullets and the whole romance plot.

>>15710508
UC has the benefit of literal decades of supplemental materials that puts a surprising amount of effort into explaining the in-universe tech. In the shows themselves, they are fairly dismissive in that nobody sits down and goes "hey, what'st he nuclear equation used to make Minovsky reactors," but someone bothered to come up with that shit.

Otherwise, there's a lot of stylistic choices that push it into anime bullshit territory.

I'd like to see a realistic UC OVA focus just on the crew of a Salamis cruiser within a larger fleet. No gundams, no GMs, maybe a small attachment of a couple of balls or core fighters that are perpetually out of commission due to supply chain issues. Just a relatively small crew of lifers and draftees dealing with all the bullshit going on around them in the larger war, knowing that they are stuck in a glorified tin can that can explode from the slightest stray round. No heroics or martyrdom, no super-weapons or experimental prototypes, no plot armor or super elites. Just space-M*A*S*H

Nobody would watch it though :(

>>15702427
Patlabor and Ghost in the Shell. That's it.

>>15706054
>western concept
Why don't you write American instead dumb-ass? Everyone knows Americans suck at industrial design. Compare muscle cars with European sports cars, for example.

>>15710950
I still think the staff messed with the scripts after the first director died.

>>15702508
>But really giant robots are never going to make practical sense.

They are never going to make sense if used in today's war contexts. If one wants to use robots, then he must literally think of a completely different type of war, but this is never done.

>>15710508

same reason people get caught up on the technology and lore in Star Wars when Star Wars is literally just a western in space. The sci-fi crowd is totally artless and can't do abstract thinking

>>15714439
>Star Wars is literally just a western in space

Wasn't it actually some really shoddy copy of an ancient Japanese movie?

>>15714471

Well it basically follows the plot of Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress (and samurai movies are a lot like westerns, structurally). But it's totally different in execution, I definitely wouldn't call the first two shoddy

>>15714439
>>15714471
>>15714494
it's the absolutely standard hero with a thousand faces plot, draped over world war 2 in space, with references to the hidden fortress and space battle scenes ripped shot for shot from dogfights in world war 2 movies

>>15714494
Pretty nice. I didn't know that.