Will a disaster of such proportions ever be topped?

We already have IBO. Destiny is a trainwreck, but at least it is entertaining one. IBO is just inexusably boring.

>>15662602
The only enjoyable parts of Destiny is crab and and spider mobile armours.

Geass R3, if it's a clusterfuck.

Part of the problem with Destiny was that people went into it with high expectations, because back then people liked SEED well enough and the first eight episodes of Destiny were fantastic. Many people wanted it to be good, and then it shat the bed. There have been worse shows in the last decade, but none of them have started with so many people having high expectations, so they had less far to fall when they botched it.

>>15662602
>>15662621
When the writer of any show listed get smote by God as divine retribution for shitting up a series. Then it will compete with Destiny as the king of disasters.

>>15662604
Wrong again, Mecha Talk

>>15662595
IBO just finished not too long ago.
Just to put it in perspective there are still interesting things to talk about Seed nearly 20 years later, meanwhile IBO is so boring, so shit there is nothing worth discussing.

For all the shit Destiny gets Seed is even worse. And as for shit worse than Seed, I think Valvrave manages it. If the objective is simply to be worse than Destiny then Code Geass and Cross Ange are worthy opponents too. Neither is an untouchable opitome of badness. Sunrise in particular have shown time and again that they can pull horrible things out of their arse and I expect they shall continue to release montrosities that rival the Seeds in the future.


>>15662602
Boring hardly tops an emotionally painful trainwreck.

>>15662602
THIS.

>>15662604
Destinys first ten or so episodes are genuinely engaging and fun

>>15663303
The main issue is that they're basically a large action sequence with minimal character build. I remember even back then thinking it was kind of odd. Elements like Shinn supposedly being friends with the mechanics that were mentioned in profiles back then basically only had one or two cameos on screen.

>>15663274

>For all the shit Destiny gets Seed is even worse

SEED had something resembling a coherent plot and managed to give a reasonable conclusion. It was mediocre but it wasn't nearly as rage inducing as Destiny.

>>15663333
>if I overlook the time Jesus magically survived getting fragged in the Strike, it's ok!

Honestly I dunno how anyone can give the soap opera writing in SEED a pass then in the same breath shit on some other show for being a trainwreck when it executes soap opera writing.

I mean, I'm down with the shit that happens between Nicol and Tolle getting got due to bad battlefield luck, but I get the feeling there's a double standard in play that it's a trainwreck when literally any post-Geass Sunrise anime pulls a similar stunt.

>>15662595
>What is G-Reco that we won't admit is worse because Tomino must be infallible?

>>15662602
>>15663243
Samefag

We've already had AGE, G-Reco, and GBF Try, and that's just the Gundam series. My personal go-to for a truly terrible show came out just a year after Destiny: Gin`iro no Olynssis. Which also happens to feature large amounts of Hiraiface.

>>15662602
>entertaining
No

>>15662621
It's not even called R3 and at this point we have no idea about new Geass will be about, so that's a big question mark.

>>15663274

Cross Ange was very gross in terms of excessive and occasionally violent fanservice and Fukuda went full self-referential with SEED nods here and there in the process, but at least it had a better main character than Shinn. Furthermore, I'd say Code Geass had that much and also turned out better, in the end, though it was also a different kind of show despite making an obvious riff of Kira with Suzaku. If you want really terrible stuff, there's all Dai Shogun, Comet Lucifer and AGE, among many other shows.

And yes, it's foolish to claim the original SEED was worse than Destiny. It definitely wasn't.

>>15664012
If we're going to complain about soap opera writing then that should be applied to plenty of pre-SEED shows too, including about half of Tomino's output, especially his more murderous shows. Are we going to group all of those together then?

>>15664217
I fearfully await the day Zeta Gundam is deemed a trainwreck. We've been standing on the precipice since the inaugural Zeta bashpost.

>>15662595
Aldnoah.Zero is pretty close.
A.Z - topkek trainwreck
Destiny - painful trainwreck

>>15662724
Then 08thMS must be worst Gundaam since its director does as it was in production.
Morosawa didn't die until well over a decade after Destiny.

>>15664289
People have been calling Zeta proto-valvrave for years now.
It's just shitposting, I think, but if it catches on it'll just blow up because no one on /m/ actually watched these shows, they just sit through a handfull of episodes and check the wiki.

>>15662595
Years ago I used to somewhat blindly hate Destiny after seeing everyone else on the internet do it.
But after watching it a few times I found that its not that bad outside the final 2-3 story arcs.

The show had a lot of interesting setup early on, but its biggest problem was not paying off on any of them.

>>15664209
>but at least it had a better main character than Shinn
No it didn't. You're just giving Ange a pass because she makes your dick hard.

>>15664209
I have to agree with this guy
>>15664572
I would even take it further and say Ange and Shinn are the same character.
The only difference is that Ange gets slightly more development.

By the third part, AGE felt like it has a similar vibe of soulless executive meddled garbage. It took longer to get there though.

>>15664562
>But after watching it a few times I found that its not that bad outside the final 2-3 story arcs.
What usually makes a show bad is when it's ending sinks at the end.

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>>15662621
>the first eight episodes of Destiny were fantastic

>>15663274
>For all the shit Destiny gets Seed is even worse

It's like this...

SEED was an unambitious retread story with good execution. It took first Gundam and shined it up. Good music, good mecha, but the characters were all cardboard cutouts rehashing a thirty year old story.

Then we get Destiny. And the first few episodes of Destiny are GOOD. Same technical execution, but now we're on new territory. We've got new characters who don't immediately fit into old roles, and it's a post-war vaguely Zeta-ish intrigue setup.

And then it goes to shit.

>>15664582
>I would even take it further and say Ange and Shinn are the same character.

>Shinn gets fucked over by Kira
>Ange gets fucked by a Kira-look-a-like
Yeah, I can see it now.

>>15664619
I've heard a lot about how many SRW games, and even Dynasty Warriors Gundam games to an extent, all try to 'fix' Destiny. I've haven't heard of any other show getting that kind of treatment.

>>15664209
>but at least it had a better main character than Shinn.
This is not a viable defense when Tusk exists

>>15664619
No it doesn't, SEED Destiny, along with SEED, is the best Gundam show.

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>>15664687

The biggest problem with Destiny is that they pushed reset on the characters. It starts out setting up Shin as another Camille with Athrun playing the Quattro mentor. In the first arc they paraphrase Stardust Memory, cameo Issac and Deaka, and in general set up for what could be a really good series.

Then they dump Shin for Kira and rehash SEED.

>>15664724
One major problem for me was the Earth Alliance not really having any character with personality "representing" it later on, in the beginning they seemed to be going for Neo vs Rey. But no after the whole oh look im Mwu it never went down and he was reduced to doing fancy poses in not Hyaku Shiki.
Seriously how did they not have a Neo vs Rey go down christ fucking morons one the few battles where you could sit down and say oh this can go either way.

>>15664687
>all try to 'fix' Destiny
That's one of my biggest questions: How did such a gigantic fuck up of a series get the budget and approval from Sunrise to do:
- A Final Plus OVA
- 4 Special Edition movies (yes, FOUR!)
- An HD Remaster
- Numerous games

Did Fukuda have blackmail leverage on all of Sunrises' executives or something? No other Gundam series in franchise has gotten this kind of red carpet treatment.

>>15664770
And that's not even counting Stargazer.

>>15664770

Despite all of that SEED Destiny is still horrendous, in the end it just proves you can try to polish a turd as much as you want but in the end it's just a turd.

>>15664770
It prints money.

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The thing is, Destiny had good ideas to work with. They had the pieces to make a good story that revolved around Athrun. But then they dump all that and bring back Jesus Yamato.

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>>15664767
Also fuck them for not exposing the Exus more.

>>15664784
I'm pretty sure all enthusiasm for the series (even from SEED fans) had drained by the last 10 or so episodes of the original broadcast.

It just doesn't make sense that Sunrise would continue throwing money at a failed project. Unless the disc sales really WERE that good...

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JUST

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>>15664767

Earth Alliance didn't need to be represented beyond Neo.

A better story would have been Athrun vs Durandal, with Kira only making an appearance near the very end (so Shin can have his fight and then move on).

>>15664792
Destiny literally had Athrun repeat the same character arc from SEED. If anything, it should have focused on Shinn more.

>>15664823
Would have been better if Neo was legitimately Neo and not some pussy ass way to asspull Mwu's resurrection.

>>15664823

Also, I wouldn't have had Freedom fight Destiny.

Shin vs Kira would be a punchup.

>>15664025
This. Destiny might be bad but it was a financial success at least so it's not a "disaster". G-Reco and Age were miserable failures on every level.

>>15664034
Meh, Try was worse than the first season but it wasn't awful or unsuccessful, particularly at moving plastic.

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How to fix Gundam SEED Destiny:

Rip off Macross. Lacus vs Meer

>>15664770
Because SEED and Destiny were only flops in America. They were MASSIVE hits in Japan and Sunrise never forgot.

>>15662595
Yes, it's called IBO

>>15664823
>Earth Alliance didn't need to be represented beyond Neo.
Not if they're going to have Neo jump ship and go back to being Mwu. Then they have no characters to do any fighting, and unless they're going with the "overwhelming numbers" or "automated drones" maneuver (which they aren't) the Earth Alliance is effectively of no consequence.

Remember how in Gundam SEED, the Three Ship Alliance couldn't just do whatever the fuck they wanted because they had the Dominion Task Force after them, and fighting Forbidden/Raider/Calamity took up significant time and energy? Or how they couldn't just save Orb by having Freedom blast everything? Nope, no more of that. After Destiny 'runs out of energy', Kira flies about and blasts a bunch of grunts and ZAFT has to pull back fo a bit because there's no one to oppose him.

GSD's problem isn't that "Shinn didn't win" or some crap like that. It's problem is it's poor execution and subpar writing. It wanted to have it's cake and eat it too. But intsead, it screwed up on the time needed to make the cake and forgot half the materials, whipped together a cupcake instead, and insists it was supposed to be like that in the first place.

Perhaps decide if wanting to have the old cast go against the new cast is actually the angle you want.

To this very day, I don't know why Shinn (and the majority of ZAFT) in the Destiny Plan in the first place or even show any doubts about it. We just need a reason for the old cast to show up and smash things.

>>15664813
>Unless the disc sales really WERE that good...
SEED and Destiny were both the top selling anime of all time for a short while.
Now that title is held by Unicorn iirc

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>>15665106

> the Earth Alliance is effectively of no consequence

Uh, yeah. Just like the EFSF was in Zeta.

I'm envisioning a totally different story for Destiny. Logos still exists, and is still vehemently anti-coordinator, but they're being manipulated at the top by Durandal. Think the Alliance Civil War arc of Legend of the Galactic Heroes.

Durandal facilitates the theft of the ZAFT prototypes. Durandal wants justification to attack to remove OMNI as a threat. He wants Athrun back in the fold as an ace fighting for ZAFT.

The Junius attack happens a bit later in this version and is reversed, with Logos trying a kessler syndrome attack against PLANT. This brings Kira and the Archangel into the fight, protecting PLANT (briefly, and then going away again).

In the process, Shin meets Kira, beating him bloody until Athrun intervenes. Kira has no words to offer Shin, it's only the situation that gets Shin to work with Kira. Ultimately Shin's arc is an unhappy one, like Char still hating Amuro for Lalah 13 years after the fact.

Athrun and Lacus are forced to take on Durandal, and the final conflict is a ZAFT civil war in which Athrun (backed of course by Issac and Dearka) prevails against Durandal and Rey. The deciding factor is Shin, who in the end sides with Athrun. Shin is wounded defeating Ray, but Lunamaria keeps him from dying (Hayato-Fraw ending).

Ultimately, Athrun joins the PLANT supreme council. No longer suffering from the enui he experienced with Cagalli, he marries Meyrin.

Meer is outed as an imposter but Lacus passes the torch and Meer continues to be an idol.

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>>15665182
>Uh, yeah. Just like the EFSF was in Zeta.
Don't give me that "Uh, yeah" sarcastic quip shit.

Did you fucking forget about the Titans? You know, that big group the AUEG was formed to oppose, and generally gets in their way?
You remember when these guys and their stupid net almost took down Zeta Gundam?

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>>15665197

No, I didn't forget them. I'm just not string replacing Zeta.

My envisioning of Destiny is a ZAFT civil war. It borrows more from the Neo Zeon War of Double Zeta than from Zeta.

>>15664821
What did those monsters do to Providence?
What the fuck?

>>15664289
The Zeta ending was pure dogshit though, I was so mad with that ending.

>>15665411
They improved it! Welcome to Librarian!

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It's still humorous how SEED is popular enough to have gotten a sort of "Origin" like manga that also retells the story a bit and further expands the MS development chart.

I'm wondering if there's a Destiny:RE as well.

>>15664209
>And yes, it's foolish to claim the original SEED was worse than Destiny. It definitely wasn't.
Why's it foolish? To me, it's simple maths. Both shows go to absolute shit soon enough so which has more decent episodes? Destiny has a fairly strong start, Seed is pretty much bad from the beginning, though it's a very different flavour of bad than it ends up. I say that a show with 7-10 decent episodes out of approximately 50 is better than a show with none to 5 out of ~50.

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>>15665528
>Librarian
The designs are like, pants on head retarded but instead it's backpack on shoulders retarded

they also have awful colors

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Lacus is my waifu.

>>15666830
Most of them are awful, yes. But I actually kind of like the Hail Buster, Regen Duel, and Vent Savior designs.

>>15662595
Valvrave already did it.

>>15666830
Those are Lego Ice Planet colors... they get a pass from me. Really dumb placement with the shield though.

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>>15666837
Me too anon, me too.

>>15665078
They would have to rewrite Meer to actually know what she's doing.

>>15667882
I think Meer is fine as she is. She's probably the only character with any development in the series, and has something to do with the dangers of the Destiny Plan. The problem is that none of this has anything to do with the ultimate end of the story.

Also, it brings up the issue of Lacus having so much influence that just having her around is enough to have people support a war, or that Gilbert would be dumb enough to create a fake that could have been outed immediately as she showed up on television,, before trying to get rid of the real one, and we'd have characters as stupid as Athrun go along with it.


Why not have Meer just be another superstar that doesn't have o rely on Lacus's image? It's not like she'd fail being backed by ZAFT's chairman.

>>15667894
>She's probably the only character with any development in the series
Do you mean when she finally realizes she was being manipulated for the wrong reasons and then they kill her off cause they don't know where to go from there? I wouldn't really call that development. It could have been if they had the balls to continue with that plot, but it was no longer convenient to have her around for the writers.

>>15667894
She is introduced as a naive young idol trying to do the right thing and dies a naive young idol trying to do the right thing.

I'd say Shinn had more development than that, even if it was just him becoming a jaded asshole.

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> Lacus

Pink Relena?

>>15664562
It's rather the opposite for me. The beginning is what irritated me, I had trouble accepting the idea that everyone in Orb was going along with joining the Federation that tried to invade them and take their shit only three years prior. Also Cagalli's personality being transmogrified from "Our goddess of war" to a helpless princess in an arranged marriage. Once I accepted the fact those inexplicable changes to the setting, I thought the story progressed nicely from there. The ending could have been a bit better if it were less of a flawless victory, though I rather enjoyed seeing Shinn be completely innefective against Athrun.

If I was going to change any one thing about Destiny, it would be removing the cut-and-paste UC suits and replacing them with advancements on the Dinn and Ginn types.

>>15667785
That's Meer.

SEED's first half was good mostly because it's just a retelling of 0079. It still had problems like all that melodrama. The second half however is boring thanks to Kira suddenly acting all Obi-Wan Kenobi to everyone. The last few episodes were good too because Rau made it worthwhile.

I never understood why people say Destiny's first half was masterful. It isn't. It is good. Just good. It still had trouble focusing on Shinn like it should have. Then the second half came and the entire thing became a big fucking mess.

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>>15667970

> It still had problems like all that melodrama.

Was there an episode about them looking for salt? No? Then it isn't as bad as First Gundam.

Can you see the flaws (and sometimes even the edges) on the cells as they slide them around to move ships? No? Then it isn't as bad as First Gundam.

>>15667946
Nope. Meers right next to her in that scene.
Plus it's easy to tell them apart by dresses.

>>15667996
>an episode about them looking for salt?
confirmed for never watching MSG series. The episode, "Sayla's Agony", has maybe two minutes total worth of dialogue about them being out of salt in an episode about Sayla . You think it's "the salt episode" because you only read the wiki episode descriptions and didn't actually watch it.

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If only Kira got to fuck both.

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>>15668261
That could be lethal though.

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I wish they got to hang out more.

>>15668199
Not to mention the rest of the episode is preserved in the compilation movies, just minus the salt problem.

>>15667894

Because Meer also serves as the confirmation that the up till then reasonable Durandal is evil beyond the vague Destiny Plan notebook, with him immediately shelfing Meer once the real Lacus appears, then later using her as bait to kill Lacus and having his squad shoot to kill Meer with the rest of the group.

As well as Meer's "sin" of rejecting Athrun in favor of contining to play Lacus knowing full well it was lies, until the actual one appeared and Durandal had to dump her because Meer didn't have Lacus's polticial savvy. If she'd gone with Athrun not only would Rey have a harder time justifying killing them if "Lacus" was there rather than the easily replacible Meyrin but Durandal would have a kink in his plans.

If Meer was a rival popstar Lacus showing up would do nothing, nor would there be any danger of Meer being a loose end. She could keep doing her thing even after Lacus returns.

Plus a big thing was Lacus just inheriting her father's support group, because that's basically how Japanese poltics work. No other singer could command Lacus's influence regardless of how much they sang about peace for the crowds because she wasn't a former chairman's daughter.

>>15662602
>>15663243
>>15665084
>>15663299
Fitting right in.

>>15667928
I don't think they are as similar as it might seem at first. Relena is a primarily reactionary character, while Lacus seems to actually do things of her own volition and often instigates a change in things on her own.

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>>15664619
>best boys fighting instead of being bros

for what purpose