Was Furu Furuntal more of a Crescent clone than a Char clone?

>>15649537
No they just seem similar because both shows are shit and trying to sell 0079 to people who didn't watch it

>>15649537
Well, Unicron was essentially SEED shoehorned into the UC setting, so I don't see why not.

The terrible thing about Full Frontal's nihilism is that it essentially comes out of nowhere. At least Rau had the 'I'm a clone!' explanation for why he was batshit. The sad thing is that with a bit of effort, they could have tied in Full Frontal's nihilism to his origin (well, the origin from the novel, because the anime did fuck all to explain where Frontal came from) where he was some Neo Zeon sap who was transformed via surgery and psychoframe memories into a figurehead Char. Make it so that he's bitter that his entire sense of self was erased just so a bunch of Zeon dead-enders can have a puppet Char. If even a person's very soul can be twisted into anything, then what is the point of everything?

>>15649537
>>literally some form of clone
Wrong

>>endgame is nihilism
Wrong

>>has no waifu
Retard

>>15649951
Try watching a series before joining in on a thread related to it. Thank you!

>>15649537
Yeah, but with a less awesome dub voice.

>>15649992
Rau was also Makaan, right?
I can't unhear the two of them speaking each others lines.

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>>15650020
Meant to include this.
https://youtu.be/Cy5NNU4L2ks
https://youtu.be/0Awfq95GSSo

>>15649951
Ah, the "never actually seen Gundam" starter kit. Seems like a lot of people are buying those these days.

>>15649770
>where he was some Neo Zeon sap who was transformed via surgery and psychoframe memories into a figurehead Char.
Venom Char.

>>15649984
>>15650034
Why bother responding? It's just the same 'no u' shitposter that thinks that Destiny was good, IBO is literal Satan, and everyone who disagrees with him is from ANN or whatever boogeyman site he's paranoid of this week.

>>15649537
>>15649549
>>15649770
>>15649984
>>15649992
>>15650034
Ah yes, you're all fitting in wonderfully, sadly shitposting is against the rules.

>>15650261
I agree. Unicorn is the best UC Gundam show, much better than shit like Zeta

>>15650261
>shitposting is against the rules.
Are you going to ban yourself from the site then? You yourself just posted a shitpost, after all.

Besides, shitposting isn't against the rules on /m/. If it were, there wouldn't be so many troll threads posted every day.

小説が始まったのは種死とダブルオーぐらいの時期でしょう

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>>15649537
>has no waifu
There's where you're wrong, m80

>>15650029
Dub SEED is worth re-watching for Rau alone.

>>15649770
Tangential note: That's why VR is terrifying.

Even more tangetial note: There was an art film at this year's Whitney Biennial that posited that since smell and taste are so deeply embedded in the mechanics of the human memory system, that it could be possible to engineer smells and tastes that conveyed experiences that people hadn't actually had. So, a smell that invokes the pseudo-memory of having been tortured, or someone completely different.

Just food for thought.

>>15650261

>Literally going No U

You must be 18 or older to be here.

>>15650211
Boredom, mainly. Even when it's an obvious shitposter, if it's about a topic you're into, and there's no new material to mull over, it's yet another opportunity to rant and debate and analyze at each other.

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>>15650029
Why is Rau so amazing?
>mfw the violins coming in in the last scene

>>15649951
Explain further on all points.

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>>15650739
Not that poster, but I'll take a crack at it.

> clone
He wasn't a traditional clone in the sense that they took a Char clipping and grew a new one. Apparently he was just a guy that was sorta similar in looks, and they subjected him to heavy genetic modifications and plastic surgery to fix the differences. Then took Char's psychic residue from the Sazabi's cockpit psycoframes and grafted them onto the guy, giving him his memories.

Basically, he says he's a vessel because he's literally an unrelated guy they gave an extreme makeover and then told to play the role of Char. They totally got the hair wrong though, far too fluffy.


> nihilism
He's nihilistic, not his endgame. I mean shit man, he's a dude that got copypasta'd over, of course he sees no purpose to life, and that whole bit with the eventual heat death of the universe was an expression of it.

However, his endgame was exactly what he spouted, more or less what he'd been given to spout. He wanted to use the threat of the box as leverage over the Feds to set up a Side Co-prosperity sphere, in part because Side 3's status as a republic was about to expire, and it was literally their last and only chance at having any sort of recognized colonial government.


> waifu
His only reason for being is furthering a political agenda, he has no space for anything personal. He already gave up self-identity or any kind of existence as anything but a puppet playing a role. And there's not really any character introduced that he's supposed to have such an interest in. Angelo's affections are one-sided, and Banagher is both an obstacle he's forced to deal with and a fellow vessel he can empathize with.

The thing is, Full Frontal is little more than a carefully-made tool, and sees everyone else as one too. Tools which are there to be used until they break, and then discarded.

>>15650261
Hell yeah! Unicorn is much better than Felcher Gundam!

>>15649770
In the anime, Full Frontal is basically a clone of Char.

>>15649537

No. Look, it's very simple.

Full Frontal is a man with Char's memories. That's basically what he is: Everything else is tangential to that.

He's a Cyber-Newtype and a true believer to the cause, prepared to take up the mantle of their greatest hero. And he finds out - surprise, surprise - Char didn't give a fuck. Char was no hero, he was a man going through a mid-life crisis with a death wish and a crippling inferiority complex. There was no master plan, Char just wanted to take everyone down with him.

And now everyone's looking at Full Frontal, going "Well? Now what? Full Frontal, please, SAVE US!". He can't possibly tell them "Look, I don't know either. Char didn't know. THERE IS NO PLAN." All he can do is to put up a strong front, fake it, and pretend that it's what Char would have done.

This is why Audrey goes "No, you're not Char." Full Frontal's plan is too sane, too rational and too limited to be the kind of shit Char would think up. The real Char would try to drop another fucking colony on Earth.

He's a nihilist because - to him - it's all a fucking lie. The hero-worship of Char is a sham, because he knows Char inside-out and Char was fucked-up inside. Char wasn't a great philosopher-warrior, he was a lost soul like everyone else is, telling people what they wanted to hear.

And if CHAR was like that, what hope is there for anyone?

>>15650861
>Char didn't give a fuck. Char was no hero, he was a man going through a mid-life crisis with a death wish and a crippling inferiority complex. There was no master plan, Char just wanted to take everyone down with him.
Great, another asshole who missed the entire fucking point of Char's Zeta - CCA arc.

Try watching the fucking shows and movie again. Or at least don't watch the fucking dub or something.

>>15650922
You're not going to explain it because it would give people a chance to blow your ideas sky high.

>>15650922
Char's thing all through 0079 was worming his way into the top brass and using that position to bring the Zabis to justice. He set Garma up for a fall, the Feds took out Dozle, Gihren killed Degwin and Kycilia killed Gihren. So when he finished it by blowing Kycilia's head off, his purpose was complete.

Zeta arc he's wrapped up in resistance to the Fed's excesses, because holy shit man they are fucking over hapless spacenoids, what else he gonna do? He does everything he can to try to move heaven and earth and get some sort of decent peace going. But in the end, he's fucked over by all sides. Everything he tried to do, every avenue, twisted and wrecked by shitty people.

So by the time of CCA, he basically gave up on changing any of these people and started playing along. He played the Feds like a fiddle at their own backroom games and dropped an asteroid on their heads for their trouble. He gladly took the aimless, purposeless spacenoid insurgents, who clung so blindly to a name and a slogan and did little else of substance, and turned them into willing cannon fodder, marching them off to the deaths they so badly wanted.

In the end, he orchestrated yet another war between Earth and space, the war that seemed to be all anyone in the world wanted anymore. This time, however, he was going to see it to fruition - since they could not come to peace, they would carry this incessant, seemingly unavoidable conflict to its natural end.

If you think about it, it's a lot like mid-east politics. You can run yourself ragged trying to make peace between sides, but they just keep breaking down and fighting each other, so at some point you might just have to let them fight the apocalyptic war the whole region seems so bent on and be done with it. Same as the Americans did over slavery, or the Europeans over... everything.

Full Frontal was such a lame idea. He was exactly what you thought he was the whole time, just a clone. Pretending he was channeling Char's spirit was stupid too, since Char's priorities were not the good will of Zeon, unlike Full Frontal.

Rau Le Creuset at least had ulterior motives. Even if he was different from Char, he also had more to him than the viewer originally thought.

>>15650941
Different anon so my perception might be different but since it bothered me too:
In the first place I don't like how people are confusing any type of depression with middle-age crisis. Another anon ones argued that it is just a semantic difference but the popular associations for middle-age crisis and its causes are entirely different than the ones we have at hand. Understanding the motivations of the character correctly is important for understanding correctly the role they play in the story and how they contribute to the general theme of the show.
Char is not someone who is reconsidering his priorities. He is someone who had a particular goal from the very start of his life and consistently pursued it throughout even beyond common sense. With this he stands out from other people. It's important to understand that if you want to properly understand the themes of individual vs.collective and the roles both the individual and the collective play in history.
If view of the above I think it's quite inappropriate to say that he had anything as a "death wish". As I said earlier he is a person that had a sense of mission from the start so even though he felt that his private existence was worthless to himself and to other people this wouldn't be enough to convince him that existence itself is in general meaningless.
In this sense, no, he didn't have a "master plan", he had a goal and he guided his actions in accordance with his circumstances in order to reach that goal.
Considering these points, the commentary "he just wanted to take everyone down with him" is misinformed and quite irrelevant and disconnected to the case at hand.

>>15650941
As a conclusion, as for being a hero, in the first place questioning and redefining the role of the hero is one of the themes of the series. This has to do with the "role of the individual in history" theme I mentioned earlier. When you are saying "he was no hero" you are simply employing an archaic understanding of the concept that is not applicable to reality.


Following from the above I think that the point made by Unicorn is interesting. Full Frontal's the statement "He was a defeated man" is an expression of hopelessness. He considered Char foolish. A person without personal ambition or sense of identify would feel that way.

>>15651118
>Char's thing all through 0079 was worming his way into the top brass and using that position to bring the Zabis to justice.
Well he sure did a shit job of it considering Kycilia immediately knew he was to blame for Garma's death and for some reason still kept him around.

>>15651146
Hero implies he was working towards a larger goal rather than pursuing his own endeavors. Which really isn't true with Char. He tried to work towards a greater cause in Zeta but ended up disillusioned and once again focused on creating a scenario to achieve his own personal desires in CCA.

>>15651165
>Hero implies
I told you to get rid of your archaic understandings.

>>15651165
'Hero' means little by itself. It's a term applied to people by others after that person did something they liked. The most common way to get people to like you is to do something that benefits them, or in some way advance a larger cause. But there's just as many people who say 'my dad is my hero' because they admire the way that person lived.

Char was a hero to many, and that was exactly the problem. He was just a man, working toward his own agenda, but tons of people looked at him and read into him all sorts of virtues and revolutionary aspirations. They wanted someone to cheer, someone to save them, and if it hadn't been him it would have been someone else.

>>15651217
He's clearly speaking from the viewer's perspective, not any given character's.

>>15651513
Same applies to viewer.

>>15651533
Not at all. We have the advantage of knowing Char's true intentions.

>>15650279
>>15650631
>no u
See you next week.

>>15650801
>and it was literally their last and only chance at having any sort of recognized colonial government
Maybe they would have had more chances if all their previous attempts didn't end in mass murder? Just sayin'.

>>15651674
As >>15651217 said hero is just someone who we admire.

In the show a lot of people thought he was a cool guy and admired him, and a lot of other people thought he was a jerk and hated him and in general neither of those groups actually knew or cared to know anything about him

Same applies to viewer..

You think you know his "true" intentions. You have your warped idea of what is admirable. Then feel free to hate him all you want but don't imagine you are the ultimate authority or anything.

>>15650801
this guy got it. full frontal was the ideals of neo zeon personified. I doubt the character even worried about anything else.

>>15651217
>Char was a hero to many, and that was exactly the problem.
Well yes, being a hero to the segment of the population that is a-ok with mass-murdering the rest usually implies problems, and lo and fucking behold, Fifth Luna and Axis.

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>>15652638
>You think you know his "true" intentions.
You most certainly do. What is your implication here?
>You have your warped idea of what is admirable.
Even Char knows deep down he was not being admirable in CCA. This isn't some personal opinion, it's a reflection upon his character and how he perceives himself.

How other characters in-universe perceive Char does not change the fact that the viewer is given a much more complete picture of who he is.

>>15652682
>Look at my totally objective opinions.They are totally righteous and I couldn't possibly be wrong and everyone who doesn't interpret the world in the same way I do is bad and wrong.
Classical Char hater.

>>15652638
So some people were wrong about Char and thought he was fighting for the greater good. So what? Their misguided faith in him and the pain it brought them just shows more ways in which he wronged people.

>>15652697
I love Char. But he is a villain. By CCA he knows he is a villain. Even he does not drink his own koolaid.

>>15652653
He was also willing to put his fantasy involving his rivalry with Amuro ahead of the goals of those people who saw him as a hero in CCA. Him handing off the psycho frame just so he could have a more romantic final encounter exemplifies this.

>>15652711
What can I say to someone who thinks in such primitive term as "hero" and "villian". Even though I already said that the story goes beyond that and is even a metacommentary on that but you just continute trying to drag this down to a self-centric system of morality.

>>15652723
The only romantic fantasy is in your imagination.

>>15652746
This has to be the more pretentious attempt at moving goal posts that i have ever seen.
You are just trying to alter the definition of these terms to fit your narrative, when the meaning has been made very clear within the context of this thread. Char actively takes advantage of those who believe and trust in him and uses that to further his personal goals, often resulting in the deaths of those who trust him. This is based on actual events in the series and movie, not personal interpretation.

>>15652755
>You are just trying to alter the definition of these terms to fit your narrative
I am trying to alter the definition of these terms to fit the narrative of the show we are currently discussing.
Why should I accept your definitions of something if I don't think they match reality? Are you an objective authority on everything?
If you are not willing to agree with me then stop bothering me.

ITT: Charfags show they are so delusional that they can't admit that Char is full of shit when Char HIMSELF admits he's full of shit.

>>15652796
As I said you are free to believe whatever you want but I hope you do realize "Char HIMSELF admits he's full of shit" is not a valid argument?

>>15652802
>evidence is not a valid argument
Anon just stop. The only thing being shown in this thread right now is a complete inability to form good arguments, and you're presently taking this to a whole new level of stupid.

>>15652809
"Somebody said something is this way so it must be true" is regarded as evidence now?

>>15649770

If Unicorn was SEED transplanted into UC then why wasn't there an Azrael equivalent? Unicorn would've been a lot more interesting if an Azrael copy appeared in the Federation halfway through and started hamming it up.

Hell, I'd rewatch Unicorn if it had him suddenly pop up halfway through, demand that all Newtypes must die for an unspecified reason, and start nuking random colonies he suspected that had Newtypes while chucking every super duper prototype he could find at Banana, Marida, and Full Frontal so that they'd die.

>>15653220
>Azrael equivalent
I don't know, Riddhe's mom was pretty quick and happy to fire that Colony Laser

>>15652769
>Waah waah people are seeing right through my word salad mommy, make them stop

>>15654162
meh, not genocidal enough

they only aimed the colony laser so it would shear off the magellanica rather than destroy the colony

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>>15650801
huh...

>>15655760
Writing coherent English is word salad? Do you have anything of value to say?

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>>15650801
>Tools which are there to be used until they break, and then discarded.

Ditto for poor Marie darling

>>15650029
>>15650717
Mark Oliver is fucking great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz8OkIPNhpw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOpN1r-C_CM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqw3lmaG7hA

In fact, Seed and Destiny's dubs are pretty underrated. They're a lot of fun.

>>15656884
And speaking of which, does anyone have a link to listen or download the version of Anna ni Issho in the third video towards the end?

>>15650801
>Basically, he says he's a vessel because he's literally an unrelated guy they gave an extreme makeover and then told to play the role of Char. They totally got the hair wrong though, far too fluffy.
who are these people who experiment on so many people in Zeon?

>>15650191
>>15655835

AS I BECOME MORE PRESENT NOW

>>15649537
How can you not see the battle between Buddhism and Shintoism in Unicorn? The NeoZeong has a gigantic golden ring around its back that represents one of the major beliefs of Japanese (or most denominations of) Buddhism. The Unicorn and Banshee are the opposite of the Zeong. Instead of embodying "emptiness" (Śūnyatā) they embody humanism in a way that you can compare it to the mirrors you see in a Shinto shrine.

Frontal's AnCap ambition was more reasonable than Char's at least.

>>15659925
Full Frontal was pretty much just surface level Char, so he lacked the more deranged features that become apparent as you dig.