Gundam 0079 staff's comments on the animation

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Here's the Yasuhiko comments

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>>15647245

>>15647241
>Bad translations
>More ANN threads
It's like a double threat now. If this post had been about Zeta it would've been a deadly trifecta.

In all seriousness, this is about as surprising as the sun coming up, OP.

>>15647241
Why not leave a comment on the ANN article

Some Rider fags got them to change an article saying Ex Aid had the first female Kamen Rider. I don't see why you can't.

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>>15647248
The Tomino quotes

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>>15647253
Most important quote haha
>>15647251
>>15647252
>implying I'm not doing that already
Lauren ignored my messages and is not going to change her article, she's not the open-minded type to admit to mistakes. The best I can do is leave a forum comment, which I will do later today.

I'm just making these thread cuz not a single person questioned it back in late 2015. I suspected it was bullshit (why would they include an interview shitting on the visuals on the BLURAY RELEASE, something that exists only to give you a clearer image of the art?) but I didn't know it was THAT different.

And it's not a translation mistake. She read the subtitles and still bullshitted about it.

>>15647262
So it isn't just me? She really is Anita Sarkesian: Mecha Edition?

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>>15647262
Also, some of Tomino's mech sketches that the finalized designs were based on. It was difficult to teach the mech designer what the intended feeling of the mecha design was and Tomino was constantly busting his balls about it, because his experience was with cartoony light-hearted mechs for shows like Yatterman.

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>>15647262
Well good luck to you then.

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>>15647270
'nother pic
>>15647268
Pretty much yeah. I didn't even know she was an AnimeFeminist writer when I read the article, just found out later that day.

I'm not against criticizing anime for sexism, hell I've done it myself. I just hate that site because it's so obviously a disingenuous money-making scheme and a CR shilling HQ. "This is a fanservice show about asses, which is inherently bad by our standards, but it's also extremely feminist and woke so watch it" - it's more annoying than autistic Tumblr girls because at least the latter are honest and can say "this show is crap, don't watch it". The AF writers pretend to be against fanservice, lolicon and a whole slew of other shit but still tell everyone to watch the show no matter what because they're BFFs with CR. And then of course after getting their first somewhat mean comment they claimed harassment and instantly plugged their Patreon.

This is why I didn't even vaguely expect Lauren to change her article. AF is so dishonest and shitty.

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>>15647272
Haha yeah I personally know the guy who made that pic. It's really funny how they jizz over Yuasa and say his work is high art but then shit on Shin-chan, which is his favorite project he's worked on and a series that he loves the animation for.

I mean fuck he even did some cool mecha animation for Shin-chan!

>>15647274
That Kamen Rider article WAS changed though. It only took like four people commenting with links to proof.

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Oh and Tomino still hates how Doan Island and is vocal about it, but it's because it was the most rushed, not because the animators were shit.

I still think it looks relatively better than the average non-Kanada Zambot 3 episode though.

>>15647283
>but it's because it was the most rushed, not because the animators were shit
Really? The way he tries blocking it at every opportunity makes me think the episode director slept with his wife or something.

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>>15647279
Well I made my comment, feel free to contribute too http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=4929876#4929876

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>>15647292
I honestly am not sure and I suspect he did have some grudges. I think he exaggerated about the backgrounds too and it might be due to not having gotten along very well with the background artists beyond Nakamura.

This is all me taking a shot in the dark though, maybe there really was something about the backgrounds and the specific animation on Doan's Island that truly, honestly bothered him in particular. The weird plot holes in Doan honestly bothered me more than the animation, which was below-average for 0079 but, as I said before, better than a lot of stuff in Zambot.

Nothing in Doan was as bad as this bit. Sure the mechs looked really blobby at times and Doan had fucked up eyes in that one frame but at least they didn't use the wrong background for the wrong cel, making it look like a mech was floating.

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I suspect the biggest mistake people make when judging 0079's animation though is comparing it to Zeta because "it came out only 6 years later!" - 6 years makes a huge difference given that not only did Gundam become huge during that time, Japan was well intto the famous "bubble economy" era when technologically-focused otaku shows could get a fuckton of money.

1985 is also the year when the first Area 88 OVA came out in, which had fucking mind-blowing animation. Just look at the beginning of this clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z_BewoOw1w

The 70s had some great stuff too like pretty much everything proto-Ghibli and even some of the non-Miyazaki late episodes of red jacket Lupin, but they were few and far between compared to the constant stream of great animation that was the 80s. Animal Treasure Island looked great but it could might as well be a 60s work because it was 1971 and its financial failure marked the time of Toei deciding "okay fuck it, we'll be cheap motherfuckers from now on and not make fully animated movies anymore". Dezaki stuff could look very good but from what I recall had more budget-saving occasions that didn't necessarily require motion. I love the late 70s Treasure Island show (note: completely different from ANIMAL Treasure Island) but the animation was more limited than 0079. 0079 could get blobby and there was reused animation but the mechs constantly moved around and the lasers and explosions were constantly animated in the combat scenes.

>>15647349
I'd be willing to wager that in that 6-year period there were some pretty useful technological advancements as well. It's easy to forget how rapidly consumer electronics advanced to get to where we are today.

>>15647349

the animation direction even changed dramatically in 0079 towards the end when Tomino gave Itano a shot. The space combat towards the end gets pretty good. They took it to a whole 'nother level.

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>>15647356
Yeah I'll be honest I have no fucking idea how the technology used for cel animation evolved over time, I'll have to look into it one day. All I know is after drawing & animating digitally in shit like Flash since I first got a computer the process of having to hand paint every frame & the slightest inking & coloring mistake showing in the final product (since you can't edit it out easily like with digital) makes me hugely respect what they pulled off during those days.

>>15647241
The key amimation was actually amazingly good. It's the inbetween frames that were sometimes a little bit shoddy.

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>>15647368
That's a really funny part though, the review also implies that Tomino & co said that the ALREADY HORRIBLE! animation only got WORSE!! during the second half even though Tomino specifically praised a scene from the second half & said his most visually-hated ep is from the first.

Honestly I think some of the really early space combat was good too.

This missile-firing sequence felt kinda... proto-Itano https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziD00EtOOpU&t=2m40s

>>15647245
>they were half-baked

Gundam 0079 production crew confirmed massive stoners

>>15647356
>>15647373
There were no major technological changes. It was possible with time and skill to make something that looked much better than 0079 in the 1930s. Even by the standards of rushjob TV anime, Yamato looks better than 0079 and especially has coloring that doesn't look like ass and it came out four years earlier.

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>>15647376
I referenced this shot before in the OP but it really is fucking beautiful https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvtO3Me1tAA#t=18m
>>15647374
Ehh that's going a bit too far, I do remember a specific part that was just zooming in on a pretty badly drawn still shot of the Gundam. But generally you're right.

The most famous shot with the stretchy Gundam was actually an inbetween, and I don't think it was even a mistake technically as much as the animators using out-of-place cartoony animation for the mechs. Most of the time the mechs are more human-like, gestural & less mechanical than they got in later Gundams, but they're only very rarely cartoony and when they are it looks odd.

For example this part. The drawings are not bad, but it's weird for the Gundam Hammer to be so obviously cartoonishly squash-and-strerchy up.

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>>15647385
Or here, where the Gundam...

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>>15647389
.......has its neck stretched out as it gets hit by Char's Zaku. It's not "awful art"; it would be fine if a drawing like this came up in something like the 70s Getter manga, which had consistently cartoony mechs. But 0079 did not so it looks out of place.

>>15647376
>The missile-firing sequence felt kinda... proto-Itano
For every noticeably bad scene in MSG there was a scene that was done beautifully for the time, and some like the one you pointed out that were done beautifully period.

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>>15647376
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XDZn4Z2e7A&t=15m45s I always loved this shot. Great impact.
>>15647381
First of all, you are comparing a 43 episode series to a 26 episode series, so your premise is inherently flawed.

Second, I've not seen Yamato but I watched episode 1 and I recall it being relatively unimpressive in comparison. I've seen some "sakuga" clips from later episodes posted on Twitter though so if you want to make a better case feel free to do what I'm doing and link clips.

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>>15647399
Some of the POV shots could get really good:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TddFpfBGkN8&t=18m58s

Some miscellaneous cool space combat shots:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziD00EtOOpU&t=17m54s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziD00EtOOpU&t=20m24s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XDZn4Z2e7A&t=13m20s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziD00EtOOpU&t=10m28s Tomino didn't like this but I always preferred the TV version of this explosion for some reason, it felt more fluid & unique & how every frame was drawn & how it flowed.

This clip has one of the legit shit parts that people meme about but it also has some great parts. I LOVE the parts where the Amuro cockpit shot changes color along, the Gundam getting up, and the sketchy semi-transparent shots of Amuro freaking out (the same effect that was used in Gunbuster ep 5 in Obari's scene):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYCUBb3W0FY#t=16m55s

In fact some of the expressionistic color use is great and a big part of why I disagree with >>15647381

>>15647412
>I always preferred the TV version of this explosion for some reason
I actually hate seeing it myself, and I understand why Tomino would. It's the super-colorful explosion effect they used under the debris inbetween the shots of Side 7's bays exploding and the smoke escaping. It just looks so cartoony and cheap compared to everything else. It's like if Adam West Batman directors wanted to show an explosion but didn't want to blow anything up; they'd take those couple of frames and play it as the explosion and then show the aftermath.

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>>15647420
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FrE0BZqltA#t=20m8s this shot of Char shooting down missiles is good and pretty elaborate.

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>>15647421
I meant this one specifically. I may have linked the wrong clip the first time hence the repost. It actually looks less cartoony than the flamboyant beautiful looking explosion he replaced it in the movie to me.

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>>15647427
I dunno, the movie one feels more extravagant and pretty but kinda flows less naturally. For the record I like both, I just like the TV one a little more.

>>15647262
I know you're autistic, but normalfags don't care about articles written 2 years ago. Yes, it's still on a website and possible to be changed but it's not work efficient to change old articles because the biggest userbase doesn't give a shit anymore.

What you can do is compile all their mistakes and make a thread on their forums or mal or wherever and complain so more people notice it, not bitch about it on /m/.

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>>15647430
Tomino did not like the Gundam Hammer back then so this shot is not in the movie, but I love the effects animation here when the Hammer makes contact with the Zaku's projectile https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvtO3Me1tAA&t=12m2s

It's so fast and fluid it turns the choppy budget-saving slo-mo right before it into an asset since it feels like it's build-up of the large blast.
>>15647431
>normalfags
I didn't make this thread for normalfags. As I said earlier I made it because no one knew what Tomino & Yas actually said when a thread was first made about this article and I wanted to make it clear that Tomino looks back fondly on the key animation & even most of the inbetweens.

If you can't see why misrepresenting Tomino & Yas so hugely to push the "0079's animation is legendarily bad and the staff is ashamed of it" narrative is really shitty I don't know what to say.

>>15647450
You misunderstood my post, normalfags was referring to the author of the article.

Besides, I have yet to see /m/ use ANN as a credible source or consider their articles the truth.

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>>15647452
It's more that she was citing a Blu-ray special she had just watched, so not even I expected her to have talked out of her ass so hard. ANN is ignorant about a lot of shit but I can't see how anyone's memory could be so fucking bad so I really suspect it was purposeful misrepresentation.

>>15647462
Well yeah, that's for certain, CR and ANN love their mistranslations and misquotes. It's not even about mecha, the staff is incompetent when it comes to anime in general but the gundam posts I've seen are particularly bad.

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tl;dr but did you find the interview ripped somewhere? Don't tell me it's on AB.

>>15647487
The BD is on AsianDVDClub. I'll try to rip the interview specifically it and Youtube it.

>>15647492
Aaaand I have absolutely no fucking idea how to rip this or even upload the original files and I don't have much time to look into it now. The file is
>MS_GUNDAM_0079_ COLLECTION_2.torrent
and listed as
>Mobile Suit Gundam 0079 (1979) R1 NTSC 4xDVD9 - Collection 2 of 2

If anyone else has an Asiandvdclub account or can find it on other trackers they can try, otherwise I'll figure it out later.

For the record, the problem is that the full interview is broken down into two .vob files; one has in-built
subtitles if you launch it normally with a media player, the other is only 4 minutes long and doesn't. I watched the full thing by just launching it all as a disc.

>Another busterbeam autism thread
Why do ANN users keep coming here to make threads about their shitty site?

>>15647241
>Well I finally watched the interview
Link please or I'm calling your claim bullshit.

>>15647692
I'm gonna upload the two interview files right now but it'll take a while cuz it's like more than 1gb

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INTERVIEW FILES DELIVERED

https://mega.nz/#!q5kh0AaR!TUSj7pTPu8neHqQi-yeTVeMm08bvTgCjKxb-i7zoJpc

https://mega.nz/#!P8VyCJyZ!wFLAw28j616zaWh_sWAMfWKhy9cpszDedVxHpklk_DI

>>15647766
Thanks.

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>>15647777
here's the best part of the interview. please share on tumblr and reddit

>>15647673
Because guys like Psycho 101 censor the forums, I've seen him do it. ANN is now right wing and /a/ somehow thiinks it is left wing when it is not.

>>15647431
autistic retard detected

>>15648023
But that's not busterbeam, the literal autistic slow-talking retard.

>>15647241
To be fair she could've just half heartedly been skimming through the interview and then went all aggressive paraphrasing on it, which would believably result in erroneous claims. Like an accelerated version of the telephone game.

English is kinda terrible about that, every degree removed from the source makes the original message fuzzier, less consistent. Especially in any form of journalism getting the second hand means a single report can be a flawed account when taken by itself.

But that's me being devil's advocate for a bit. Still sloppy journalism to warp the original statement like that, indicates you're too impatient to cover the subject matter.

>>15647349
>beginning of the clip
>it's the entirety of the Act 1 and 2 compilation

Some clip anon, that being said if you watch it enough times you'll see how Area 88 has some funny moments in how it animates scenes.

Like, no doubt the money shots are excellent, I'll swear up and down about how good Area 88 OVA looks, but have you ever stopped to think how steep Shin's descent is on approach to the runway at the end of the intro sequence?

>>15647385
Only because I halve to.
https://youtu.be/POKD2MBmAeE?t=5m35s

Zeta and ZZ looks miles better because they actually had budget.

>>15647349
Honestly while it's fun to dig on all the QUALITY in 079 I actually do think it's good animation considering the horrible circumstances the staff had to put up with. I'm willing to live with the Gundam shapeshifting if it results in smooth battle scenes like the gif you posted rather than the Gundam just floating across the screen beam spamming on a backgroundless colored plane with speed lines to trick you into thinking it's moving.

>>15647277
NGL that's a good mechanical design by itself, I first saw it in a pic dump thread and thought it was legit.

>>15648023
Autism tourettes detected

>>15648128
>She could've just half heartedly been skimming through the interview
>Still sloppy journalism
It's completely unethical and if your devil's advocate argument is at all accurate it demonstrated a potential pattern of unethical behaviors that is arguably just as bad as the supposed malicious writing she's being accused of. Personally I think lazy and unethical behavior is worse, because at least with malice you can point to her and say that she's just a piece of shit.

>>15648668
Dude she wrote it two years ago cut her some slack.

>>15652163
>she wrote it two years ago cut her some slack.
All I'm hearing right now is that she's done another two years of unethical writing. Also why the fuck did you feel the need to bump this thread from its death throes with this bullshit?

>>15652167
Shut the fuck up dude do you know how rare it is for a hot babe to like mecha?

>>15652168
I know you're trolling, and I appreciate you being willing to do so in such blatant fashion, but don't bump with that shit. Sage your shitposts, Anon. Have some self respect.

>>15647272
rotoscoping is the worst thing to ever happen to animation.

>>15652172
I'm 100% serious and it's your shitty attitude that scares girls away from our hobby in the first place. Fuck off.

>>15652168
>hot
>babe

kys fag

This cunt is basically slandering Tomino and her "translations" are no better than the fake meme interview about Tomino trashing Gundam and Fukui (though he deserves as much)

>>15652179
Don't tell people to commit suicide you can land yourself in prison for it.

>>15652180
What are you even talking about?

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>>15652173
>rotoscoping is the worst thing to ever happen to animation.
I hope you don't seriously believe that. It's one of the things that helped to make early animated features possible.

>>15652197
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/16/us/suicide-texting-trial-michelle-carter-conrad-roy.html

>>15652199
It does have legitimate use, but most of the time it's just used to be lazy while claiming to be artistic.

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>>15652206
I get what you're trying to say. The problem is shitty animators directly tracing instead of understand it's a starting point. Aku no Hana was an abomination of what not to do, but honestly they pay the animators in food stamps they kinda get what they deserve when you give them an opportunity to trace.

>>15652199
Rotoscoping is not referencing.

Those examples are very obviously different enough from the live reference that anyone can tell it's not rotoscoped. Rotoscope is literally tracing, roughly or not, film.

Peter Pan's body isn't even at the same angle as the life actor. His torso is facing forward towards Wendy, his face off angle in a near 3/4 view, his left leg facing foward, etc. The witch's entire body is in a completely different pose, not even remotely similar. The actress is restrained and entirely faced forward dangling a lantern box. The character is leaned forward, her torso almost facing the audience with her arm stretched backwards, and only her head facing directly at the prince (and also tilted up).

When an artist uses a visual aid and recreates (loosely) with his freehand then he's just using a reference. If he's somehow tracing it, either the silhouette through a lightbox or just the frames themselves, with the intent of creating animation then it's rotoscoping. It's a great disservice to Disney's early animators to call that rotoscoping when it's self evident that it's not.