What was their fucking problem?

Incompetence, arrogance, and poor political leadership.

>>15643901
Turns out global government is hard and means incompetence. Who knew?

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>>15643975

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>>15643978

Fucking lol

>"DAMN FEDDIE GLOBALIST SCUM, ZEON DESERVES ITS FREEEEEEEDOOOOOM, AGHHHHHHHHH"

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>>15643901
The entire world was conquered by Brazil.
That should tell you all you need to know.

>>15643901
Faceless bureaucracy orchestrating events so as to maintain their power and influence. We know that the Zabi family ruled Zeon, but who runs the Feddie government? OPEN YOUR EYES SHEEPLE OPERATION BRITISH WAS AN INSIDE JOB

>>15643975
That's easily said for individual governments. Globalization just ups the scale

>>15644181
Precisely. We should be looking for smaller governments, not larger ones.

>>15644160

>Spacenoid independence

HUEHUEHUE

>>15644187
What if we had one large government that handed down degrees of independence to smaller sub-governments? I wonder if anybody has ever tried doing that before.

>>15644306
We did. It did alright until it was forced to disband after losing economic dominance.

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>>15643901

A massive but somewhat obsolete force led by people who believed "have a lot more doods" was all you needed to win a battle.

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>>15644187
Well, then you just get war and infighting over resources or bullshit like religion.

Seriously, the ONE TIME they tried to allow for full autonomy, that Nation State wiped out half of humanity.

Granted the Feds were dicks and went out of their way to deny them trade and implemented policies directly aimed at hurting their economy in retaliation for their declaration of independence, but still...Giant left-leaning globalist government is preferable to a far-right Extremist regime that blows up it's neightbors simply because of who they associate with.

Small governments are better in theory, but in the context of Gundam's world, they've only lead to trouble.

>>15644319

The idea that an island could rule a continent was always ridiculous.

>>15644536
I've never heard it put that way. Neat.

>>15644541
Tom Paine?

>>15643975
The Future Century timeline.

>>15644424
> Giant left-leaning globalist government is preferable to a far-right Extremist regime that blows up it's neightbors simply because of who they associate with.
Only to a leftist.

>>15643901
Space Nazis kept dropping giant space colonies on them.

>>15643901
>A COMPLETE AND TOTAL SHUTDOWN ON SPACENOIDS HAVING INDEPENDENCE UNTIL WE CAN FIGURE OUT WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON


I think they grossly underestimated the lengths to which angry space nazis would go to implement their special brand of national socialism. Like, who in their right mind would unironically drop a space colony on Earth right?

>>15644424
>Zeon
>Right-wing
Zeon, while lacking the size and scope of the Federation, was still an authoritarian state. the government and especially the Zabis, held all power. Everything was centralized there.

>>15644844
>Zeon, while lacking the size and scope of the Federation, was still an authoritarian state. the government and especially the Zabis, held all power. Everything was centralized there.
>everything centralized in the hands of a few wealthy autocratic elite
That sounds about as right-wing as you can get.

>>15644813
Are you trying to imply that right-wingers want to blow people up for no reason?

>>15643978
>>15643998
Why the fuck isn't he fighting to break all the states to independent states? USA is just a smaller scale of one world government. Hypocrite piece of shit.

>>15644862
Thats... thats not even close to being right.

Since you don't seem to know what left or right is, the basic gist is left is bigger government while right is smaller. Left wing puts more power in the government while the right gives it to the people and reduces the role of a centralized government.

>>15644912
Economic is what keeps the US together, despite the pretty obvious fractures in the country.

The states would literally not be able to survive by themselves.

>>15645005
>The states would literally not be able to survive by themselves.
Good

TIME TO GAS THE ENTIRE EARTH

>>15644536
And yet it worked for centuries.

>>15644912
Secession is against the law.

>>15645328
>implying laws mean anything
KEK

>>15645389
Without the people, the state is powerless. Without the state, the people are powerless.

>>15644912
Because the principles that founded the nation were greater than what founded the individual states.

The problem with globalists is that they're elitists who believe libertarianism should only apply to them. So they cheat on taxes, exploit third world workers to increase worker supply and drive down wages, and they do whatever they want and settle things with power.

Also, reminder that libertarians and ancaps are idiots who think outsourcing work and specialization of nations is a good thing even though it would collapse the white collar class of most advanced nations

>>15643901
They were lenient, forgiving and generally laid back.

When some space nazi hurled giant metallic home built by them for the spacenoids onto Earth. They persevered and when the war finally over, no prosecution no mass genocide just peace albeit a shaky one but still peace.

When the survivors from the last war came back and decide to hurled another colony on Earth grain supply, they were stopped there and now. Again Earth still forgive those who had wrong them.

When some maniac from Earth decided to go full crazy, they finally saw the evil in him and back down from supporting the Earth borne group and gave its full support to those who willing to fight said evil. Even then they still accept those who survive to rejoin the Federation

When some maniac from space decided to go full retard and wanted to end mankind living on Earth, they compromise, wanted no more blood and suffering but they were tricked and were punish for their naivety but a miracle happen and save them all.

again when some maniac from space break away from the Federation and formed its own aristocracy, the Feds use economic sanctions to pressure the rouge state to file for bankruptcy and they still were allowed to rejoin the Federation

Finally when some maniac from Jupiter wanted to end all life on Earth via mind crippling device the Feds weaken but not beaten gave everything they have better to die than surrender for one final showdown.

The Feds are the true Hero of the UC era, while most fiction govt would have hurled every spacenoids to the sun for their crimes for the past 75 years the Feds forgive them and believe the potential of humanity.

>>15645485

This. Everyone who tries to sell that the Feddies were evil is fucking stupid. If the Feddies were even just halfway evil, the spacenoid factions after the OYW would be so crippled that anyone that tried to pull Neo Zeon bullshit wouldnt have anything more dangerous to use than a pair of scissors, and being seen carrying them would get him and his family deported out the airlock.

>>15644864
In an universe with giant robots, who wouldn't?

>>15645579

But what reason did they have to not allow spacenoids their independence?

>>15645579
>If the Feddies were even just a little bit evil they would've crippled spacenoid rebellions post-OYW
>Feddies create a military organization that gasses an entire space colony.
Uh, Anon...

>>15643901

A bunch of space assholes dropped a colony on their planet

>>15644952

you fucking clueless retard.

eat shit and die.

>>15646429
Because literally every independent Spacenoid nations is lead by and composed of genocidal psychopaths? Side 6 is probably the only Spacenoid nation that wasn't insane and even they had the good sense to rejoin the Federation before they got infected with the crazy.

>>15647281
>Side 6 wasn't crazy and they had the good sense to rejoin the Federation
Probably were afraid of the Federation moseying in with some tacticool mobile suits and gassing their entire population.

Casting aside all the memes, the Federation joined every other faction in Gundam (except maybe AEUG) in committing some mass murder.

>>15646449
That happened years later AFTER the spacenoids went ahead and nuked their fleet and dropped another colony on them.

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>>15647289
>That happened after Zeon nuked and colony dropped!
You're right, Anon. That totally excused taking a no-tolerance policy that included randomly gassing entire space colonies.

That sounds like a very rational and logical way to dissuade this kind of reckless, mass-murdering behavior. Honestly, I don't know why we don't just do this in real life. I mean, it seems so obvious!

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>>15647285
>Probably were afraid of the Federation moseying in with some tacticool mobile suits and gassing their entire population.

Except the ones well known for gassing colonies even in-universe are Zeek scum.

>>15647289
It gave them a justification to beef up their forces and to hunt down other Zeon-like factions so they wouldn't do something similar
But it will never justify all the shit Titans did

>>15646449
Yet when they knew how evil Jamitov was, the Feds backed down and gave the AUEG its full support and even disowned the Titans but kinda too late since most the feds equipment were lease to the Titans.
>>15646429

>But what reason did they have to not allow spacenoids their independence?
But Side 6 and Zeon already are independent. Unlike Side 6, Zeon went the militarist route and this scared the federation of the impending attack, that's why they beefed up their Navy with thousands of Battleship and still researching about MS capability in war when Zeon themselves has few battle ready MS for war.

Despite their apparent inept and corrupt rule, the Feds never once deploy a weapon of mass destruction on a planetary scale on its fellow inhabitants, most of the time the Feds either deploy Nukes, Gundams or Amuro in the field against the enemy not the non combatants even that when the Feds went near total economic collapse they still gave the spacenoids a good kick in the ass, so much so the're willing to gamble everything for the sake of humanity

>>15647546
Not for lack of trying, Anon. They couldn't actually deploy weapons at the same scale Zeon did, because there would be little point in doing so, and the challenges would be immense. They did all the same shit Zeon did either in the OYW or preceding the Gryps Conflict, but they couldn't do colony drops. The logistical challenges of pushing a colony way out into Side 3/A Baoa Qu/Konpeito would be too high, and even if they succeeded Zeon could just send that shit right back at them.

Although since 0083 exists I guess I can't technically say that's true. The Federation actually colony dropped itself as a false flag, so scratch that. As it turns out they did copy everything Zeon did in the end.

>>15647553
>The Federation actually colony dropped itself as a false flag
The action of one corrupt and evil person does not represent the nation they're fighting for, if we go by that standard then Zeon is a team killing bastard that shoots their higher ups because reasons.

Jamitov acted alone with few federation member supporting it and they kinda redeemed themselves when the assembly at Dakar were shown footage of the Titans atrocity and disowned them there and now. Show me a scene where some Feds unanimously decided to push all remaining colonies onto the Sun or deploy high concentration of Nukes on the colonies better yet when Feds create a mind fuck weapon to mindwipe all spacenoids.

>>15647572
>The action of one corrupt and evil person does not represent the nation they're fighting for
>one
Jamitov wasn't alone, Anon. He had support within the military and politically. They didn't just hand him the Titans on a silver platter because MUH REBELS, they did it because he had allies and he was pulling those strings.

>Show me a scene where some Feds unanimously decided to push all remaining colonies onto the Sun...
So now the evidence you need to believe that the Federation was also staffed by evil and corrupt people is evil and corrupt people unanimously deciding to cartoonishly destroy all of humanity's space colonies?

Let's try a different game:
>Zeon's evil actions were just perpetrated by one evil family. The actions of one evil family do not represent the nation they're fighting for.

>>15647553

> The Federation actually colony dropped itself as a false flag

No, it didn't. There were no Federation forces involved anywhere in the colony drop in 0083. Hymen, Bask etc. appear to have realized it was going to happen and taken advantage of it, or even perhaps influenced Delaz to think about it but at no point were Federation people of any rank or stripe involved in the operation and Delaz and his brand of Zeon were still ultimately responsible for deciding it was an appropriate action and following through on it.

>>15647617
So it's just a coincidence that the Federation had all the tools necessary to stop the Delaz Fleet's colony drop prepared ahead of time? I guess the Federation got really lucky with that one, and then really unlucky thanks to Kou and the Albion.

>>15647595
>>Zeon's evil actions were just perpetrated by one evil family. The actions of one evil family do not represent the nation they're fighting for.
That's pretty much the message of the original MSG, yes. Amuro comes to the same conclusion after seeing crazy Newtype shit when fighting Dozle, and during A Baoa Qu states that Char is not his true enemy, but rather the Zabi family who controls Zeon.

Delaz, Haman, and so on just continue the insanity. Hell, Side 3 didn't want anything to do with Axis in ZZ and so Haman has to occupy them.

>>15647625

First of all, why would the Federation not prepare and equip measures to combat colony drops as a general rule given recent history? More importantly though, them being prepared for and possibly even influencing the decision of Delaz dropping a colony does not make it a false flag operation because it was still a Zeon action at the end of the day. The Federation was not conducting the plan while pretending to be Zeon or placing the blame for it on Zeon after the fact despite doing it themselves, and if they were involved it was obviously in a roundabout way given that Delaz thought it was his own plan. Collusion is not the same thing as a false flag. And even if it was collusion it was pretty circumspect and not Federation approved, but still something Zeon decided to do on their own regardless.

>>15647625
>that the Federation had all the tools necessary to stop the Delaz Fleet
What tools? Nuke and the Solar system? Solar System was made way back in oyw when the Feds only relied on nukes as their superweapon while spacenoids have massive colonies and unlimited supplies of asteroids that can be throw at Earth, not having the Solar System or soon Colony Laser is stupid considering the enemy would likely to developed it first. and even that the Solar System was not design to destroy colonies but rather to soften the spot for easy Fleet attack as demonstrate when they attack Solomon.

>Federation conspiracy
Why would the feds nuke 1/3rd of their fleet just so they can create Titans, they could've done other things less wasteful than that. When Jamitov knew about the Stardust plan, he scheme with Cima to help Delaz accomplish the plan for his own benefit not the benefit of the Feds, he took advantage of the circumstances and in the end the true winner was Jamitov when he out manuvered everyone, from the Federation to the Zeon forces themselves

>>15647666
Pretty much this, Zeon as a whole is not a bad bunch, and the Feds are not all noble in their cause but what seperate Zeon and Feds was simple, Feds fought for the status quo, and future on mankind as a whole while Zeon focus on supremacy over other lesser race. When humanity faced with a population crisis what did the feds do? they built up their space colony program and built numerous colonies for mankind. Zeon or rather Gihren solution to the overpopulation was simply killing them off and let the master race control the Earth.

>>15644952

You appear to be confusing part of one nation's ideological split between it's two sides as the defining difference between left and right wing politics world wide. The left can basically be summarized as wanting to change things, while the right is more traditional and wants to keep things as they are, or at least slow the pace of change to what they view as a more manageable pace. There are some more things that generally apply, like left wing politics wanting egalitarianism and social justice while the right often works to promote traditional values and structures, but change versus static values is really the defining aspect of left/right wing political differences.

Even in the US it's not so much the the Republicans want a smaller government as that they want a more distant, less intrusive government; one that doesn't step in and help or hinder people and organisations as much. There's no real Republican push to make the government smaller in practical terms, to make the US more of a loose coalition than it currently is or anything. Besides which, putting power in the people's hands is almost the defining tagline of communism, an extreme left wing political ideology, not right wing politics in any nation.

The right in America for instance want to dictate how people define marriage, how abortion is handled (or not handled, whichever) and so on, which is increasing the role of government really, rather than reducing it. They generally want to do it for monetary reasons to, rather than strictly political ones, since the Republicans are rather fiscally conservative and generally act to reduce government spending or privatize any part of the government they think is too much of a burden on the taxpayer and deficit.

>>15645485

> they cheat on taxes, explot third world worker supply and drive down wages, and they do whatever they want and settle things with power.

That sounds like every established power or organisation of any kind, ever and not just those (or even mostly those) of one political leaning. You could as well be describing Ancient Rome, the British monarchy in it's head day, any current world power or any major corporation. It's an incredibly generic set of complaints.

>>15644952
dude you have that completely backwards. national socialism is the furthest right on the political spectrum and is a massive bureaucratic government.

Zeon Zum Deikun's teachings are indisputable from a moral standpoint.

>>15649354
You mean the ramblings of a space hippie?

>>15649354

They're disputable by simple fact of non existance. We have no idea what he preached, or what actions he championed based on any ideology or philosophy he espoused. We know he was in favor of Contolism and coined the idea of a new type of human adapted for space as an example of why it would be good, but that's about it.

And leaving aside that his idea of Newtypes is probably distinct from the reality of what they were and that he had no scientific or even really sociological basis for their virtues, there's no reason to morally support moving in to space based on the idea they exist since there's no proof living in space is actually necessary to be one. Or even really that being one is a net gain, individually or collectively.

>>15649362
>>15649379

>"It is the height of arrogance for those who remain on Earth to look up at the heavens and believe they can continue to rule over all its inhabitants. It is true that we- the space colonists- were largely shipped from Earth against our will as a population-control measure. But now we are developing a new identity and awareness. We are a new people. We live, eat, and sleep among the stars. We live in infinite space, and we will have access to infinite energy until the sun burns out fifty billion years from now. Our consciousness will expand, and infinite space will be our true home. God has given us the stars to live among. We are the people of the universe. We have struggled to survive in a harsh environment, and new generations of colonists testify to our success. Now, when we gaze back at Earth, we see a sacred blue and green orb- the cradle of civilization and a sacred home that we must eternally preserve and protect. Our new consciousness as a people of the universe tells us that Earth was not created to be abused and polluted by a few members of an elite, privileged class. Men and women who have never been into outer space still believe Earth belongs to them and still continue rape and plunder it, but their time has passed. Earth must be preserved as the sacred homeland of all mankind. It does not belong solely to an Earthbound elite! By continuing to dream of controlling all of mankind, they forever deny mankind its true destiny."

>>15649392

> Zeta novel
> speech can basically be summed up as, 'they shouldn't pollute Earth anymore because there's a whole universe to inhabit, so get off', which is barely a complete philosophy on it's own and is morally objectionable since there's multiple reasons living in space sucks physically, socially, mentally etc, from the lack of a natural atmosphere that multiple characters comment on in Gundam through difficulty in communication and general living to an apparent tendency towards mental instability and support of radical movements

Nothing in that speech constitutes a morally inarguable position.

>>15649417

But as you just said, living in space already sucks as it is, so why should the Federation be allowed to exploit the spacenoids shitty situation for their own gain. Spacenoids are right in wishing for their independence.

>>15647617
Actually they were aware of the plan because Cima was a mole, and attempted to give the plans for what Operation Stardust was to Hamilton before the Albion interfered with the exchange.

Later when Cima's fleet openly betrayed Delaz, you had Bask's fleet telling the Albion that they were now allies with Cima, which they ignored and wiped them out. The fact that the Feddies would instantly work with the Cima fleet means they already had a proper arrangement made where Cima sold out Delaz and Zeon and told them what the plans were. That is also why they were able to set up the Solar System II because they wanted the colony drop operation to occur, but they wanted to stop it before it made planet fall so they could use the attack as justification for their power play, but not suffer any major losses. Also the fact that the Feddie command and Jamitov didn't evacuate Jaburo meant they knew the target was North American which should also be telling.

>>15648543
The reason Jamitov and the Federation did care about the navel review being attacked quite honestly, because all the people there were expendable because the long term goal was the creation of the Titans and to subjugate spacenoids. They would need a major event to help justify those action and a nuclear attack on the navel review and colony drop were exactly the sort of thing the Federation was looking for. It doesn't matter how many Federation soldiers were killed, because they are just cannon fodder and can be easily replaced.

>>15647685
Because creating a weapon that can potentially destroy a colony would needlessly inflame tensions among Spacenoids, and they wouldn't want a second uprising to occur. Also from a practical perspective, you don't want that weapon to fall into the hands of the enemy and be used against you. (See that actually happening when Gryps 2 wiping out the Titan's Fleet)

>>15648928
>That sounds like every established power or organisation of any kind, ever and not just those (or even mostly those) of one political leaning. You could as well be describing Ancient Rome, the British monarchy in it's head day, any current world power or any major corporation. It's an incredibly generic set of complaints.

It's no secret that they keep giving the same old message a new name. The difference is the current establishments across the world are more connected than ever and they've successfully sold a majority of their constituents on the idea and it's been getting worse for the past few decades.

>>15643901
They're nice, it's just that the their Counter Insurgency branch got too powerful because a lot of people were afraid of Zeon returning again after UC 0083 Zeon's Operation Stardust

The Titans even got away with gassing a whole colony, shit was fucked until AEUG unveiled how corrupt the Titans were

>>15648890
First off, you seem to be under the impression that everyone in the republican party is actually right leaning. Theres a lot of centrists and left leaning people. There exists a term RINO for a reason.
Anyone can call themselves whatever they want. Party affiliation means nothing. But actions are another thing.

Second off, literally google "difference between left and right". Its right there.
Moreover, why do you think Libertarianism is also on the right?

On that note of all, you seem to not realize why said things you listed are opposed. Take abortion. Its viewed as essentially murdering the unborn child. Moreover, not all try to ban it, but rather stop the government from funding it.
Spending and taxes are a form of big government. Small government is not necessarily no government. The reason privatization is preferred is that, not only for the reason you posted, but also for the belief that the Free Market does things better.

Finally, and this needs to be stressed, you seem to be confusing Communism and other far left ideologies. While decentralization and such reduces the role of government, the opposite does so for the people, and this is important, as a /collective/. This is one of the many reasons why communism and socialism always fail due its inherent inability to actually grasp human nature.

>>15648966
Not really, actually.
The problem is, National Socialism does not fit into a standard left/right way of thinking. In fact, Hitler himself attacked both the left and the right.

If anything, Hitler was a meeting of both the left and the right, but rather than being a centrist, it was a case of him being so far on both spectrums that they met, like a circle.