When was the absolute peak of tokusatsu?

>>15621903
Ex Aid

>>15621903
On rider/sentai/ultra side, I think it's around 20s or so, I love all Ultra series between Gaia and Nexus. the same to rider and sentai
Outside of those 3, I don't really know

>>15621903
Tokusatsu is all about the VFX aspect, so whenever Eiji Tsuburaya dared to create new and interesting ways to show giant monsters.

>>15621903
ex-aid+amazons 2017 is a great year to live.

But sentai is not doing well.

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Anyone who knows fuckall will tell you it was the 50's into the late 60's. Of course /krg/ will screech and shit their diapers and demand toku didn't get good until 1999.

>>15621903
Either 80s or late 90s. Metal Heroes in general did seem to get a decent run before the late 90s though.

>>15622438
>/krg/
It's literally just the one guy.

>>15622505
I wish it was.

2032. Trust me.

>>15622647
AQUA HYPE

1954-1968. It's literally called the Golden Age for Japanese special effects.

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>>15622438
>>15622667
These guys understand.

Speaking of 50's and 60's, what shows and movies are worth checking out besides Godzilla ones and Ultra series?

>>15622505
No it isn't. /krg/ legitimately does not give a fuck about tokusatsu beyond Heisei Rider, and even worse they are openly dismissive of the medium's origins and evolution.

>>15622671
What is this from?

>>15622671
Damn, Daimajin is one of the finest looking Kaiju films.

>>15622734
You can quite easily discuss Showa Rider on /krg/ but That Guy will attempt to derail the thread with his autism if you do.

1975 is quite a good year for Toei toku, you've got the good batches of Goranger episodes, plus a little Amazon and then Stronger. Though it's pretty good up to around '77.
I'm a little conflicted because the 80s period around Gavan is kinda the peak of their practical effects meeting stunt effects.
Tsubaraya... 66-67, Ultraman and Ultra Seven is kinda a magical period.

>>15622950
The first movie is fucking fantastic, second and third have good scenes but are overall not great. It feels like they put most of their thought & effort into the first since all three were made so quick.

Any particular reason as to why tokusatsu hasn't come close to the Golden Age at all?

>>15623258
It certainly has, it just depends on what you consider a priority.

In terms of flash and spectacle, toku's as good as it's ever been, not just in the big three but in other productions like GARO.

In terms of writing, we've had a run of very good Rider shows for the past seven years, with only two exceptions, a far better hit/miss ratio than Rider had for the previous decade. Whether you think the writing of post-Decade Rider is better or worse than Showa is for people who've actually watched both to debate. I haven't, so I won't comment. Sentai's writing quality has largely been consistent throughout its lifetime. There were a few high points back in the 70s and 80s, but there've also been a few high points in the past five years. Zyuohger just last year was fantastic.

Practical effects and stuntwork are the only place where toku quality has significantly declined, which is somewhat inevitable with the advent of cheap CGI. Studios are still capable of producing those sorts of scenes, though, they just don't because standards of what's acceptable to show on television have changed. In the past year or two they've started using online releases as a way to cut loose and revive some of those lost techniques: look at the level of violence in a regular Ex-Aid episode and compare it to the Beast Riders special, for example. Amazons is another case of bringing back a lot of what used to be commonplace in Golden Age toku by using a format where they don't have to worry about parents complaining.

Quantity is another area where you might argue there's less than there used to be at one point, but mecha anime as a whole have been in a similar situation. There was a period where toku was everywhere, eventually the market all but collapsed, and now it's worked its way back up to being a bit more common than it was about ten years ago while still not hitting those old heights. The recent trend for toku has been positive.

>>15622671
I didn't know Gasaraki had a toku

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>>15622438
This.Anything else is wrong.

Tsuburaya walking home overhearing little kids talking excitedly to each other that they get to watch giant kaiju at home every day instead of waiting to go to the theatre because of Ultraman is hands down the best arguement you could make.

Imagine making children all across Japan happy.

>>15623133
Why the hostility?

What exactly does the "effects director" job that Tsuburaya had for Godzilla entail, and what does it normally entail? The way Shinji Higuchi talked about it in the 90s Gamera DVD/BD specials it seems like he had full creative control over the visuals in the monster scenes including things like cinematography and fight choreography. He didn't get full director credit, though; only "effects director", with Shusuke Kaneko being lead director.

On the other hand, Akio Jissoji got a lot of credit for his Ultraman episodes, Ultraman/monster scenes included (I personally think the action in those episodes has better cinematography too) even though I don't think he was in charge of the actual effects direction (at least the wiki has a separate "Special skill director" credit which I think means effects director?)

So in the case of 50s/60s Godzilla & Ultraman, who do I credit for the quality of the cinematography in the monster/effects scenes Movies like Godzilla '54 and Radon/Rodan also had kickass angles and general cinematography but I dunno who to credit for that: Honda or Tsuburaya? Both?

>>15621903
Mid to late 90s, with the Gamera and Rebirth of Mothra trilogies.

>>15623308
I'm condescending about 00s toku, because I've watched most of it and by and large 00s Rider sucks, while 00s Sentai is about the same as it is today.

>>15623509
I made a separate thread cuz I'm really curious now >>15623623

>>15621903
For TV effects? Probably the 90s. Model work and compositing had hit their absolute peak, Tsuburya was doing fantastic new stuff with digital effects and the industry was just dipping into CGI effects, supplementing it with practical effects.

In terms of sheer ground breaking quality and actual importance>>15622438
>>15622667

Tokusatsu have never really peaked. Not yet at least.

70s-80s shows were campy and fun with some interesting ideas, sort of like anime of that same time. But anime managed to tackle more complex and interesting concepts, which helped it to evolve into more versible and well-known Japanese production. There is a reason Evangelion is more popular outside of Japan than Kamen Rider Black. Tokusatsu is a very limited and narrow type of entertainment. Even attempts to westernise it didn't work, aside from Power Rangers (one of like a hundred attempts).
90s Toku were "peak" at the sense that it perfected old formula to its possible end, but that was it. 00s Toku generally looked like poorly made fan-films and first really visually impressive Tokusatsu of 21st century was first Garo movie (which I think came out in 2010?).
Today genre is pretty much died out, like its mech anime cousin.

I like my spandex heroes as much as everyone here, but it really saddens me that even great story-driven Tokusatsu like Agito, Gaim or Ex-Aid have to suffer from its MoW format, obligatory toy-push with ugly forms and weapons, inability to provide the necessary sense of scale, acting problems etc.
All these things seems little, but together they prevent Toku from becoming not just a curious cultural phenomenon, but truly engaging and well-recognised form of art. Tokusatsu deserves it fully.

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>>15624652
Are you fucking stupid? Are you honestly oblivious to Godzilla? Ultraman? Heisei Gamera?

>>15623155
Why does Daimajin look so good compared to other stuff in that era?

>>15624668
So, are going to say that they don't restricted by limited budget?
Both Godzilla and Ultraman were impressive for its time, but by the time of Heisei Ultra and Final Wars they still weren't all that different (in case of Ultraman, it was even worse, since franchise didn't really go anywhere really new until... probably Nexus. Even now, when Ultra pretend they have this big space multiiverse with many characters and planets, it still nothing really exceptional).
They are still mostly Asia-centred products with all supposed "bonuses" of that, which I have already mentioned.
Western Godzilla movies were generally unimpressive as well so far.

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>>15624688
What are you even trying to say you BR piece of shit? Are you really going to argue anime is more recognized worldwide than a cinematic icon like Godzilla? Are you REALLY going to tell us the original Godzilla didn't stand the test of time and wasn't made specifically to expose the 'complex and interesting concept' of nuclear holocaust just recently visited upon the country? Why are you rambling about budget?

>>15624652
I think this really depends on what your criteria are. In terms of icon and metaphor probably original Godzilla. If you look at purely special effects it is probably the late 60s. However physical stunts were pretty weak until late 70s early 80s. After that it seems like most tokusaku has plateaued, if not declined.

>>15624688
Pretty sure Godzilla's a big cultural icon around the world dude, and the 1954 movie is considered a masterpiece, I mean it's there in the Criterion Collection right alongside Seven Samurai.

>>15624715
I would say it plateaued during the 80s, dropped off in the 90s and 00s, then started climbing back up in the 10s.

>>15621903
Define peak. Peak as a technology or peak as story telling?

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>>15624652
Ultraseven is a masterwork of not just special effects but also science fiction storytelling. Educate yourself.

>>15624723
I think it's possible that we will get better work in the future, but I don't think we'll ever get the stuntwork back with the advent of CG.

>>15623282
>Practical effects and stuntwork are the only place where toku quality has significantly declined
Yeah, no shit, the main appeal of Tokusatsu is the visual intricacies.
Modern Toei productions look like absolute abominations, the shitty CGI and pathetic particle effects are disgusting. There's no love in the special effects side of Tokusatsu, and that's fucking terrible.
Ultraman productions used to care a little, but they're falling in the Toei model.
Shin Godzilla was a glimmer of hope though. And that's because Shinji Higuchi actually gives a shit about making interesting looking special effects shots.

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>>15625028
I was actually really impressed and surprised at how much of Shin Godzilla were real models and even water. I was especially shocked that the ending shot of the tail was an actual built and sculpted piece. But personally I think the lose of the animatronic puppet was a tremendous loss.

>>15624734
I'm interested in watching it, but is there an actual main plot it's building towards or do they just fight the MotW?

>>15625057
MotW. Most of Showa Ultraman are MotW except maybe Leo at the tail end when everyone fucking dies

>>15625057
There's no overarching plot, but it's also not a Monster of the Week show. UltraSeven is more like Star Trek or Have Gun--Will Travel. Most episodes are "Moral and/or Philosophical Problem of the Week," and the monster is secondary to that. There are some Monster of the Week episodes, however, and even the more intellectual episodes still feature some great monsters. It does tend to be lighter on battles than most Ultra shows. There's a few episodes where Seven is only on screen, in full hero mode, for a few minutes if not seconds.

>>15624722
>Pretty sure Godzilla's a big cultural icon around the world
Not that anon, but I thought it's far less known worldwide than in its key markets, Japan and the US. I mostly base this on the occasional comment I've read here and on other sites by random foreigners and on my own experience in talking about Godzilla with other Europeans. Of course that's a small sample size, so maybe my understanding is wrong, but one thing I repeatedly hear is that a lot of countries either have no clue about Godzilla, or only have some vague, misinformed notion of it outside of the two American movies.
Which isn't really the fault of Godzilla or toku, it's probably just that the international distribution of this stuff in the last 60 years has been too inconsistent to leave an impression everywhere.

>>15621903
PGSM.

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>>15625092
Godzilla's probably high on the list, especially among icons that originated in film, but I can't imagine that he's more well known worldwide than Sherlock Holmes, Tarzan, Frankenstein, or Micky Mouse.

Frankenstein is such a big deal that "Frankenstein" is basically the German word for monster.

>>15625078
>Most episodes are "Moral and/or Philosophical Problem of the Week"
You know, this is interesting. Growing up watching Ultraman I was mostly looking for the rubber suit rassling and light shows at the end. Nowadays when I rewatch some episodes I really do appreciate the story. I remember one episode in Jack where the kid picked up a piece of a monster and grew it in his home. Shit was fun as a kid imagining getting your hands on something cool, but now as a father I fear what my kids would find on the streets and bring back without telling me.
Similarly there are quite some stranger-danger episodes that really does fuck with me

>>15625097
Yeah, I'm sure the mislabeling of films didn't help much in creating a sense of a coherent franchise either. Reminder that the Germans also marketed at least one Gamera movie under the name Godzilla and some countries slipped King Kong into the titles too.

Ironically, from what I know, Germany is still one of the few territories where Godzilla films are relatively well known, regardless of their crazy titles.

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>>15625136
Germans apparently don't give a shit what anything is called. They're like your grandma calling every robot a Transformer.

>>15624652
>There is a reason Evangelion is more popular outside of Japan than Kamen Rider Black.
Eva had multiple releases and lots of marketing behind them. Black barely even got any actual releases outside of Japan so this is a really fucking stupid comparison.

early heisei
before the full switch to digital

>>15625166
>heisei era

>>15624652
>I literally just watch Kamen Rider
Fucking pleb, get some taste.

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>>15625136
Frankenstein pops up a lot too

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>>15625674
Indeed.

>>15625633
But to /krg/ Heisei Rider is all that matters. All other tokusatsu is irrelevant and inferior.

When Tsuburaya was alive.

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>>15622438
>Anyone who knows fuckall will tell you it was the 50's into the late 60's.
>>15622667
>1954-1968. It's literally called the Golden Age for Japanese special effects.
>>15622671
>Daimajin
THIS.

70's got KR and Sentai, I love the 80's, but 50's-60's was really the most important phase for toku. No doubt about it. Only a fanboy or noob would say 90's or 2000's.

>>15623073
>I'm a little conflicted because the 80s period around Gavan
80's, specially 85-89/90, was the most hardcore themes for toku TV shows. Technically speaking, analog chroma reached the peak in 99-2000, with Go Go V and Timerangers. Post-2000 was just digital video, widescreen and cheap massified CGi.

>>15622675
The Daimajin trilogy (or at least the first one).

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>>15624722
Armageddon>Seven Samurai