Story in /m/ media - worth a damn?

SEED is inexplicably popular.
Good animation wouldn't stop it having an awful, derivative plot and loathsome characters.

>>15599304
>are by and far the overriding opinion on /m/.
Two loud idiots doesn't prove this is the general consensus of the board. Majority in my experience have said they can enjoy a series off cool visuals but that lacking the substance of good or even adequate storytelling/characters makes a series bad/shallow and prefer a series that tells a good series.

There's a difference between appreciating some good animation and saying "this is all I need, fuck story and anyone who needs story is wrong."

Some people prefer watching music videos than shows, let them be.

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>I'm sure most of us would agree that IBO and SEED would be in the top 10 anime of all times were they only well-animated.
No.

Why would you go beyond the opening if that were the case? It's not gonna get better.

Zambot 3 comes to mind. It does have some good cuts animated by Kanada but most of it is pretty static.

OP, there are a lot of people here, myself included, that place the visual aspect as one of the most important factors of the show. Maybe 40% of a weighted score. There are a ton of other elements to a show, like plot, music, editing, and designs which, while not weighted as strongly, can influence a show in more ways than animation alone. I mean L-Gail looks like shit, but it's well regarded here. Hell, 0079 has it's fair share of ugliness, but it has so much else going for it. Counterpoint, there are like grand total of 7 people on this board that like Star Driver or Captain Earth, and both have excellent animation.
If this board only cared about animation, G-Reco wouldn't such a point of contention.

>>15599396
Gundam X's first OP might suggest otherwise.

>>15599304
>Hell, I'm sure most of us would agree that IBO and SEED would be in the top 10 anime of all times were they only well-animated.
This is why I can't take "muh story" fags seriously. Animation always comes first in an animation. It's a visual medium. You don't turn to a cartoon when you want a good story. You only watch children's cartoons for the story because you're too stupid and immature to pick up a fucking book.

>>15599304
>IBO, good story
Umm, hell no. They had good ideas, but the actual execution was horrid. I mean Jesus Fucking Christ the writing was bad. You can't expect me to look at the Brewers arc and make me believe that that was anywhere near good writing.

>>15599582
>Judging a work's maturity based on its medium alone rather than its actual contents
Hmmmmmm

>>15599582
It's not a visual medium, if it were it would be a compilation of gifs. It's audiovisual, and people still don't talk so much about voice acting, sound design and music. That doesn't mean it doesn't matter, I could get my laptop mic and dub whatever cut you want and completely ruin it without even trying. Different people care for different stuff and weight it differently, but everything can ruin a show if it's bad enough. Story is one of the few things that can save a show that fails in every other regard, that's why most focus on it to such a degree.

On the second argument, I don't know if you've read enough books, anon. Novels have different stories because they have their own strengths. Dune sucks in an audiovisual medium because the good of the book is the polisci and world building, the story is really bad in terms of plot. You couldn't adapt the ground dog fights of VOTOMs to a novel, and those scenarios bring up stories that can't exist outside of the medium.

If all you care about is animation why even bother to watch anime, just watch youtube clips or webms

>>15599304
It's ridiculous to try and boil down enjoyment of all works in any one medium to a singular factor. Different things are good for different reasons

Yes, I'm okay with Escaflowne just because it has gorgeous animation even though I don't really like anything else about it

Now let me rattle off a list of other shows that have mediocre/bad animation that I like for various other reasons
G Gundam (characters, premise, voice acting)
Zambot 3 (story)
Iron Leaguer (Characters, story, premise, 44 SONIC -ON FIRE-)
Macross 7 (characters, story, music, premise, mecha designs, moving the damn mountain)
Detonator Orgun (OOOOOORRRRRRRGGGGGUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNN)
Tekkaman Blade (characters, story, designs)
Gravion (mecha designs, Sandman)
And so on

It doesn't matter how good your production values might be if the viewer isn't invested in the story.

Good writing can make up for lackluster visuals and a decent show can be propped up if it looks great but bad writing can't be salvaged simply by throwing money at it.

Claiming that storiy doesn't matter is either blatant shitposting or just retardation. Animation is just a medium, an instrument to tell the story. It should be valued of how well it manages to do it. So it's important, but not as much as some people claim.
Animation can complement good story, but it can't do shit if story is bad. But when animation is flawed, but it still manages to tell the story, good story, well, people will overlook these flaws.

>>15600448
>It doesn't matter how good your production values might be if the viewer isn't interested in the story.
Careful. Don't want Michael Bay to hear you were talking shit.

>>15599304
Dougram is carried by its story

>>15599304
Threads like this are proof that /m/ is too retarded to understand most shows they hate on.

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>Storyfaggots
Can you pseud cucks just fuck off back to MAL, AniDB, ANN or whatever cancerous shithole you crawled out of? Or better yet, fuck off back to school and read a book.
Kek
The only reason to watch anime is to see cool mechs and sexy girls.

The reason for that, op, is that /m/ is filled with fucking idiots that have no idea what a good show is. And I say these as a person who enjoys spending times on /m/, NOBODY here has anything remotely close to "knowledge of a good show."

/m/ is quite possibly one of the dumbest boards on 4chan, and I am not shitposting when I say that. Not to mention, a lot of them are actual manchildren, so "pretty fights" are exactly what they want, while "story" is something they find boring. Not shitposting, not trying to talk about /m/'s opinion on any show in specific. That's just how it is. You are quoting people with the mental level of actual children.

>>15600542
>mechs
Everyone who says this instead of "mecha" or even just "robots" should kill themselves.

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>>15600549
>He thinks anime has good story
Holy fuck this manchild

>>15600563
>gets so upset somebody called him a manchild he tries to perform a sick own using somebody the person didn't say

I didn't say shit about anime having good story. The only mention of good is "good show" and if you wanted to argue that anime isn't good. Well I wouldn't disagree to be honest.

>>15600549
>a lot of them are actual manchildren
Well that's what happens when your board is dedicated to glorified toy commercials.

If visuals were all that mattered wouldn't things like Unicorn and G-Reco be far and away the most beloved Gundam entries?

Bad animation can be hugely affected by budget, time constraints and all kinds of other uncontrollable factors. Bad writing is just incompetence.

Neither are mecha but

>Good visually, no story
Angel's Egg

>Shit visually, good story
any recent Berserk adaptation

>>15600663
TFW watching Berserk means supporting a piece of shit adaptation, but not watching Berserk will give the impression that interest in the IP is low. Damned if you do, damned if you don't

>>15599304
>are by and far the overriding opinion on /m/.
It's one shitposting cocksucker.

>>15600542
Stop false flagging.

>>15599304
>are by and far the overriding opinion on /m/
You didn't provide near enough evidence to make that kind of over arching statement.

>>15600663
"Birth" can also fit the first category. But you really could have come with a better example for the second.

>>15599304
It doesn't matter in this case unless you're a mouth breathing retard. >>15599582 is pretty much the best post ITT.

>>15599304
>animation quality is the most important factor in determining whether or not an anime is good.
Yes, you'd think the name alone would have tipped you off to this. Go hear an audio drama for story nonsense.

>>15599606
Not the guy you're replying too....
>It's not a visual medium
Yes it is
>On the second argument, I don't know if you've read enough books, anon. Novels have different stories because they have their own strengths. Dune sucks in an audiovisual medium because the good of the book is the polisci and world building, the story is really bad in terms of plot. You couldn't adapt the ground dog fights of VOTOMs to a novel, and those scenarios bring up stories that can't exist outside of the medium.
Wow your mouth talks with dialogue.
>>15599610
I watch it to sneak back to forums I was wrongfully banned from (mission accomplished)

>>15600448
>It doesn't matter how good your production values might be if the viewer isn't invested in the story.
You've never been to America, I can tell. Stories only get you so fat here, most people prefer production values such as myself.
>Good writing can make up for lackluster visuals and a decent show
Wow do you have a narrow minded viewpoint.

>>15600493
>It should be valued of how well it manages to do it.
Genesis of Aquarion does just that, but not enough people here talk about it. Hmmm. It's almost like people are sheep.
>Animation can complement good story, but it can't do shit if story is bad.
Yes it can/

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>>15600549
Here is your (you)

Production values superior, plot and character nonsense inferior

Is half this thread just one person or what? I can't imagine this many people willing to eat whatever shit is handed to them as long as it looks pretty enough.

>>15601246
More like you snobby elites are getting a dose of reality outside your hugboxes

>>15601238
Wouldn't valuing multiple facets instead of having a one-track mind for animation be exactly the opposite of "narrow minded"? You're just closing yourself off from shows you might enjoy if you turn your nose up at every less-than-perfect visual presentation.

>>15601246
>Is half this thread just one person or what?
There's atleast one falseflagging idiot who's trying to make all animation appreciators look bad.

>I can't imagine this many people willing to eat whatever shit is handed to them as long as it looks pretty enough.
You need to understand that looking pretty makes it not-shit to people who like pretty things.

>>15601246
Most likely. He probably just baiting, since people are willing to argue with him. Or he could actually be that retarded.

>>15601262
>Wouldn't valuing multiple facets instead of having a one-track mind for animation be exactly the opposite of "narrow minded"?
That's what he was saying

Storyfags are massive hypocrites if you think about it:

>follow meh rules!
>ugh it follows the rules!
>must be interesting!
>whoa too out there!
>who cares if effort was put into other aspects
that is window dressing waaaaaaa!
>how dare something stick its genre!
>people don't go to monster movies for monsters they go for humans!
>who watches action movies for action and not humans that is so wrong!
>who cares about author intention it must have the exact same judgments because how else can I complain!
>unless it has my specificity you must not attempt something so bold!
>muh legacy of old things!
>there must always be depth or it is bad
>x is a craftsman while why is not because I'm promoting a meme!

I'd like to thank Toho Kingdom, Kaiju Phile, Evageeks, Anime News Network, Channel Autism, and whiny internet critics in general for these examples. You schmucks are an ideal reason why we need to remove net neutrality in the US.

>>15601291
What's your problem with animation?

>>15601291
you forgot
>actors must say this exact thing with this exact emotion or its wrong cuz I seid so!!!!!!
As long as they don't stutter and stay in character acting is pretty meaningless

>>15601291
Be sure to include Macross World because giving movies a fair chance means you're a sponge according to that place. They deserve to have Harmony Gold hold their franchise hostage for the entire century.

if you prefer animation to a good story, you are retarded.

>>15599304
Fafner is a series that had very mediocre animation, but the story saves it.
The same goes for evangelion, I can listen to the dub while doing other stuff and still enjoy it.
Also Ghost in the Shell is incredibly dependent on thematic story elements, that's not to say that the visuals aren't playing a part, because in GitS they really do.
But that film is still enjoyable and well written from a story standpoint.

>>15599618
I can totally agree with this.
I love Gundam 0079 and definitely not because of its animation because it's horrible.
But the story and characters are so charming that they create a really classic experience.

Nobody has ever said "watch the original mobile suit Gundam, it has great animation" and that's not what the anime was even known for.
It was able to have staying power because of the gunpla and the timeless tale.

>>15601507
I mostly agree but how do you listen to Eva's dub without stabbing yourself in the ear every time Spike Spencer talks?

>>15601489
Why do you say that? Or are you just trolling?

>>15601515
honestly it's because I grew up with dubs.
It's weird for me to watch most dubs now because I can get what subfags are saying when it comes to the voices.
I don't have vehement hatred for dubs but they can be grating sometimes.
I don't think I've encountered too many outright horrible dubs though, the worst I've seen is Build Fighter's and this one DS or PS2 game that was basically dubbed by a guy and his family.

>>15601510
>Nobody has ever said "watch the original mobile suit Gundam, it has great animation" and that's not what the anime was even known for.
That is why we have SEED aka UC done better

>>15599304
>using a low point in the gundam franchise as the opening picture

>>15601548
I actually think that SEED handles its backstory as well as if not better than the early UC.
Also its technological stuff is very well developed too.
I really wish it had gotten a full on remake, it desperately needs one, there's so much that could've been further elaborated on.

>>15601515
He's the least grating to me. He has the appropriately whiny and nasally voice I picture for Shinji

There is not a single /m/ series that has objectively good writing of any kind. To think otherwise is delusional.

>>15601868
You never watched the 2004 Tetsujin, did you?

>>15601240
Sousei no Aquarion has garbage animation.
Also, it is generally pretty fucking shit, with a few very good episodes, that's why nobody talks about it, my dude.

>>15602262
Man fake news is getting desperate to deceive sheeple these days

>>15601080
>But you really could have come with a better example for the second.
Really? I can't think of anything that looks worse.

>>15599304
>Hell, I'm sure most of us would agree that IBO and SEED would be in the top 10 anime of all times were they only well-animated.

>seed
>redundant OYW rehash with themes of genetic engineering and eugenics wasted with saving grace being some stories

>ibo
>cheap gimmicks and character deaths for the sake getting some reaction out of audience

No amount of good animation would had saved it

>>15599304
>That all hand drawn and cel-painted anime are, by virtue of being those things, infinitely better than any anime made after the year 2000
But tetsujin 28 gou, and fafner are better than just about everything made before 2000 other than Macross DYRL, Turn A gundam, VOTOMS, GaoGaiGar, and Ideon Be invoked.

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>>15605724
Wasn't 2004!Tetsujin 28 hand drawn and cel-painted?

(Also, on the other hand)

>>15599304
LOL

AS LONG AS THERE'S ROBOTS IN IT I'M FINE