And he meant it

>>15500302
again team meat with the win

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He's a Machiavellian. I don't know why this is hard for people.
>Goal
Achieve peace in space
>step 1
Kill obvious threats to order with overwhelming power of dainsleifs.
>Step 2
Throw the general population a few olive branches to ensure loyalty and protect order, and prevent future threats
>Step 3
Retire in peace

>>15500302
After McGillis died, he probably could have bribed Tekkadan off Mars for a pittance compared to what he lost in matériel and lives fighting them.
If he wanted a big Fake News spectacle, that would have been easier to control than what he had planned.

>>15500577

He could have but then he wouldn't have destroyed their influence. Tekkadan made a very good case for the usage of child soldiers, proving not only to be effective but showcasing the powers of the AV system. Tekkadan created a boom in the Human Debris market and served as the posterboys for what those kids could potentially be. Only children could get AV after all.

You wipe out Tekkadan, the guys who made it cool and had these powerful Gundam mobile suits, you send a message out to anyone who attempts to emulate them. "You think you can stand to us just because you have AV-equipped children? Did you see what happened to the last guys who tried? Just don't even bother, we will stop you."

If Rustal simply bribed them or accepted surrender, the message isn't as strong. It could even look like he (and by extension Gjallarhorn) was afraid to deal with them. But by making it appear that Gjallarhorn combated the demonic Gundams and prevailed, while at the cost of many lives, it would only renew people's faith in Gjallarhorn to be the protectors of the people.

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>>15500302
The argument against Rustal in a nutshell.

It was an asspull, not amount of headcanon will change that

>>15500759
>headcanon
Oh look, that word again.
Next you're gonna say >plot armor

No amount of justification can stop the ending and the show itself from being completely pointless and absolute shit.

Rustal's role might make sense if examined alone, but in the context of the show it makes for terrible storytelling.

>>15500302
>>15500527
>>15500718
>>15500753
>>15500763
>Rustalfags are still at it even after that interview

No amount of headcanon can save the fact that he's a nothing character who was going to die like nothing in the original script but because Nagai and Okada are incompetent they wanted to make Tekkadan's fall more "tragic" despite the fact that they had no personal strife against him at all.

>>15500816
>he's a nothing character who was going to die like nothing in the original script but because Nagai and Okada are incompetent they wanted to make Tekkadan's fall more "tragic" despite the fact that they had no personal strife against him at all.

What a fucking mess, holy shit.

>>15500816
>after the show ends one writer says
>nuh uh everyone who won loses and all my favorite characters got good
kys

>>15500816

But in the original script, all of Tekkadan (including Kudelia and Atra) died. Rustal still cruised to a complete victory.

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>>15500302
You're forgetting the fact that he also BTFO'd the idea that giant robots make for practical military weapons, which is probably the most "Realistic" IBO ever got with it's setting.

I'm not knocking it. I'm glad at least one villain had the nerve to show how retarded giant toys for children are as tools of warfare.

>>15502076
Shh, leave him be, he's still salty that his idol is actually a delusional retard, so he turned being delusional to escape from reality.

>a month later
>anons are still assblasted by IBO and trying to deny it's ending
You guys sure are Rustaled

>>15502130
I hope Rustal finds a way into GBF-valhalla so he can crush children's enjoyment of gunpla battle as a fun pass-time. Little faggots need to play a real game like Call of Duty.

Rustal only existed to antagonize McGillis

>>15500302

I agree. Also one of the themes of the series is how events are chained together. The insurrection was ill advised and Mc Gillis clearly delusional, but caused a situation in which the system couldn't continue without reforms. Rustal ended up being the architect of this change and we saw him ready to pass the legacy to Julieta. He is the ultimate pragmatic leader.

>>15500302

You know what's ironic is he was basically taking hints from Orga's playbook while Orga defaulted to hoping the sheer crushing force of the Gundams after Biscuit died. Nothing stops Rustal from pulling out his family gundam and mounting Dansleif weapons on it and giving it to Julietta but it is made clear he doesn't want to give McGillis any satisfaction.

Remember back then Orga relied on n tactics and sound strategies with Biscuit making most of the plans happened. If Biscuit was still around during S2 and they still had to fight, Biscuit would have strategized with Orga to counter the Dansleif problem or hell basically most of the shit that sent Orga up shit creek without a paddle.

>>15502182
You wanna know one of the more ironic things?

After turning 1st Group into a diversion, Orga was afraid of what they would do next. 1st Group was nearly wiped out, and there were concerns that Orga's kids would be put into dangerous situations that would see many casualties. To protect them, they staged a coup and one of Orga's original ideals was they would only take jobs that didn't involve being shot at.

... Only to find out the coffers were nearly empty, so they take the Kudelia job.

Biscuit dies and under Mika's influence Orga starts playing by a different set of rules. He starts taking a bunch of high risk jobs against incredible odds, all in the name of getting to those violence-free jobs as quickly as possible. In the end, he joins up with McGillis.

Orga put his men into the situations he was trying to escape when he took over CGS. Probably even worse.

>>15502076
Rustal also died in the original script retard

>>15502240

That is another ironic thing, he was too soft when making decisions that counted and too hard on those that weren't. Saving Naze would have at least given them a bigger fleet at the possible chance they would be screwed if they lost. Only after Lafter bit it did they decided to cut ties, Orga doesn't realize if he wants to be king he had to actually step on some toes of those close to him. Saving Naze at least gives them some backup for the battle against Rustal and someone who is familiar with Dansleifs and put Jasley in an uncomfortable position as Iok and him are going to be arguing over the botched hit and Rustal is going have to offer much more on the table to keep McMurdo calm.

>>15502076
The original script also had Rustal dying. Him living was a very last minute decision according to the interview.

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>>15502171
>>15502182
>>15502240

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>>15502265
the real question is, would the ending have been better or worse if everyone died?

it was pretty pointless either way granted.

>>15502076
I would have respected that more. Why not nuke them from orbit in the first place? Kudelia getting BTFU is icing on the cake.

>>15502263
>>15502265
[citation needed]

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>>15500302
>When your villains is so bland that you literally have to make up shit to make him seem more of a threat than he actually was.
Sure can't wait to blow him the fuck out in SRW and the SD Games knowing that they won't follow Okada and Nagai's fuck retarded script.

>>15502293
>When you can't refute arguments that you literally resorted to namecalling and reaction image along with wishful thinking which its probability to happen is next to none.

>>15502130
Even in the original they knew that aren't practical, that's why them came up with minovsky particles
and besides, pretty much every gundam show has a superweapon that can easily wipe out mobile suits, that's even how they beat the Titans in Zeta

>>15502143
>use powerful weapon to crush terroist in actual warfare
>a game of enjoyment with no real consequences
yeah totally the same amrite
gee, these modern soldiers with their suppressive fire, wasting clips and bullets shooting at nothing, what a bunch of pussy, I can totally charge in and noscope everybody, I have 300 hours in cowadotty, nothing personel ;)

>>15502300
You can't refute fanfiction anon because none of this shit is in show.

>>15502130
Really? That's the thing that above all else tickles your pickle?

>>15502319
>N-no, I-it doesn't count because I said so.

>>15502300
>refute arguments
What arguments? A lot of the shit Rustalfags post isn't in the actual show since Rustal never got proper development hence why his heel face turn at the end comes out of fucking nowhere and doesn't match the shit he spouts throughout the show. IBOfags really want to believe he was a memorable villain when he clearly wasn't.

>with wishful thinking which its probability to happen is next to none.
You do know how SRW works right?

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>>15502329

>gundam has beams that can oneshot gundams
>WAAAH BEAM SPAM I HATE DO NOT WANT
>gundam has no beams, is fucking invincible and maces everything out of its way
>wow so gritty and realistic I love it
>finally introduce a weapon that can kill special snowflake gundams that's not another special snowflake super rare unit
>NOOOOOO FUCKING PLOT ARMOR ASSPULL
still one of the greatest moment on /m/

>>15502336
When your MC is so bland and forgettable any barely decent antagonist will seems miles better in comparison, also if they ever include IBO in SRW McGillis with his power hungry has a bigger chance to be the real villain in it.

>>15502357
>also if they ever include IBO in SRW McGillis with his power hungry has a bigger chance to be the real villain in it.
Nah they'll just kill them both

>>15502346
>introduce a bullshit weapon at the last minute that tips the balance scale just so the protags can lose
>wonders why people are so angry

>>15502357
You are not siding with GH in an SRW

>>15502391
>last minute

this shit was in the show for the past 10 episodes since Nabe's death.

Rustal is a faggot.

That feel when space rats didn't join Rustal.

That would have been perfect.

>>15502402
Then SRW must be pretty garbage

>>15502402
You don't need to, GH can be just enemy faction until around mid-level where Choco suddenly appear with his Bael trying to crush both of you with his space monster minions in the middle of battle.

>>15502426
that sounds abit more accurate.

i love rustel's design but he's so one dementional i can't see SRW doing anything with him without a complete rewrite

>>15502426
You think they'll go full on "Kira in Yamato Z"?

>>15502143
>There will most likely never be a Ramba Ral, Master Asia, and Rustal team in Build Fighters
Fucking hell

>>15502357
>IBO level, scene where Vidar confronts chocoman in gundam hanger
>Vidar is enemy faction
>your party shows up, Barbatos forced deploy
>chocoman: ay mika my dude kill dis fool for me
>mika: k
>you lose control of mika, barbatos becomes allied NPC with priority to target Vidar
>yfw

ITT: SALTY TEKKADAN EDGEBABBYS

HAHAHHAHAHAHA SO EMBARRASSING TBQH

>>15502522
> Carta appears with her forces to challenge Tekkadan

> Mika deploys. You have no control over him this level.

> Other leads see the attack as pragmatic, others are just opposed to it. When Mika begins taking his time tearing Carta herself apart, other leads call him on it saying he's it's gone from being pragmatic to just cruel. Mika just wants to avenge Biscuit.

> Player is given the choice to agree with Mika or try and stop him. If they side with Mika, people from other shows will refuse to participate in the battle. IBO's plot plays out as it does in canon.

> If you save Carta, your faction's relationship with Tekkadan is on thin ice for a large part of the game as arguments ensue.

> At Edmonton, Carta will deploy with the rest. McGillis will deploy as a third party and target her and Gaelio. If she is killed (or if Gaelio HP falls to zero, which triggers her taking the fatal shot), IBO plot proceeds as normal.

> If both survive, McGillis's plans are in ruins as they reveal his actions to the rest of Gjallarhorn. He disappears in this route, joining up with some antagonist faction later to steal Bael. He tries to get Tekkadan to join him, but differences in this route cause them to decline.

>>15500302
Yeah, that's fine. But WHERE THE FUCK WAS THIS EVER EXPLAINED IN THE GODDAMN SHOW?!

>>15502391
com'n man, how much gundam have you watched?
the ultra doomsday weapon is something that comes up in the last 10 episodes of nearly every series...genesis, colony laser, etc

>>15502596
Does everything really need to be explained?

Stick to A/Z faggot

>>15500302

Good things will happen if you just live long enough.

>>15502661
Unless everything aren't being repeatedly spoken in 3 exposition episodes, nothing is explained.

>>15502589
>>15502522
Oh please, this series forced you yourself to blow up Saviour Gundam in Z1 and Ms. Episode 19 from RahXephon in MX, they'd let you do those fights yourself.

I'm also wondering why everyone's expecting McGillis to suddenly be the REAL bad guy in an SRW; if anything, he'd be savable and playable more often.

>>15502308
The only consequence is getting to see the tears of gunpla faggots crying when their game is ruined by OPPLZNERF superweapons they have no hope of defending against.

And I want that. I want that so bad because fuck kids having fun, and fuck giant robots.

>>15502327
You're goddamn right it does! The minute kids realize giant robots are stupid compared to conventional missile launchers and other armchair military stuff, the quicker gundam as a franchise can die.

>>15502602
yeah but you don't see colony laser being spammed like a mother fucker

>>15502130
what annoyed me about Dansleif, there was zero down side. I mean every weapons that powerful in any story there is some good reason why it can't be spammed tipping the tide of battle so one-sided

I mean normally shit like recharge period or massive blast radius

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>>15500302

He brought shame to the Nielsen name.

>>15503169
that's because dainsleif is only really reliable as a barrage

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>Tekkadanfags cheering when Carta got killed because LOL NO SUCH THING AS HONOR ON THE BATTLEFIELD

>Later super salty when Tekkadan gets wiped out effortlessly by orbital artillery

>>15503796
> "Mikazuki is one of the best Gundam protagonists ever. No whining, no discussing philosophy, just a kid doing his job. He's a total bro."

> Doesn't realize that Mikazuki's influence over Orga was a big factor leading to Tekkadan's downfall.

Granted, these are often the same guys who say that IBO was shaping up to be one of the best until the last quarter. They wanted it to be the power-fantasy Gundam they always wanted.

>>15503177
>>15503736
I got the impression that Dane's leaf was an anti-ship weapon, using it against individual mobile suits was overkill.
Also, how did they go from orbit to ground in seconds? With only about 0.5Gs to accelerate them?

>>15503867
They can only store one shot, requiring another MS for reloading them. You get within CQC range, the weapon is beyond worthless. We even see this when Julietta messes up Shino's shot. They're not invincible as people say.

They're like an archer unit in Fire Emblem. They break the weapons triangle and are effective against flying units, but get in close and they will quickly fold. (Now I'm waiting to be told about changes to FE since I haven't played since the GBA games).

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>>15503796

I think we can all agree the best girl survived.

>>15503896
Carta's still dead, and a lot of Tekkadumbs hate Julieta with a passion.

>>15503896
Why did you post a blank image?

>>15503907
Nah pretty much everyone hates Okada's self-insert

>>15503796
Except Carta went above international border law to capture/attack Tekkadan in a Private residence that should of been safe by Gallahorns interference.
Not only that, she sent an overwhelming force against Tekkadan, sending out 3 warships with multiple Mobile suits and her own "Elite" force from space.
It was only after all her efforts came to naught, she was shamed by her adoptive father and 'admired' my mcgillis, that she chose the "Honorable" path of 3 on 3 combat.

To Tekkadan, she no longer deserved honor. She was no different from all the previous opponents they fought who only saw them as 'Rats' and 'Trash' and tried to crush them with overwhelming force. Her sudden change of heart was never going to convince them she was any different.

So in other words, Tekkadan acted like Rustal would of in this case. they were 'Pragmatic' in dealing with an opponent who wanted to overwhelmingly crush them by responding in kind.

>>15503896
>best girl

Nope.

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>>15502522

>you gain control of Vidar

>>15502357
But I want McGillis to join us so his Loli can be happy.

>>15503896
>Liking self inserts.
Best girl was the purple hair loli.

>>15500302
It still dosn't explain why things went too smoothly for him.

>Intentionally planned on slaughtering dort workers, is exposed by Kudelia
Yet no backlash and is shown for him and he's still putting down insurgents who are pissed at Arinhood for it.

>Revealed that His protege used illegal weaponry
"grounds"/hides protege during mcgillis investigation to protect him

>Revealed he started a war between 2 economic blocks
No backlash or investigation

>Coup attempted
No one questions if he is even guilty or not,not even after the battle.

>Plans to have a Deinsleif fired on his own forces, and "Conveniently" has several armed, organized and ready almost instantly
What? was no one ever going to question this? even years after no one thought this was obvious that he was breaking the law he was suppossed to uphold.

>He and his pal call and see tekkadan as 'Rats' 'Trash' 'Dogs' and 'monsters'
But we're expected to believe he honestly cares for just one to the point that she'll succeed him? or that he even cares about human debris?

All these things just make the ending unbelivable because its is beyond unrealistic that NO ONE was ever going to question and expose him. he just has control of the 'Media'? what? the future only has the one news source? and everyone just buys it? even those who've been victims and witnessed the arinhoods fleets tryanny? what about the families of the rebels? they never asked questions?

It dosn't matter ir Rustal is pragmatic or not. The ending sucked not because Tekkadan withered, but that the victor ended up being nothing like he was presented, and there was no realistic consequences for his actions. To of gotten away with it all likens him to a dictator who feigns democracy and crushes everything opposed to him in the shadows, even committing war crimes to do so.

>>15502265
>interview
You guys keep citing this, but where is this interview and were can I read it?

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>>15504461

As if that relationship was ever going to have a happy ending.

>MUH DAINSLEIF

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>>15503896
Why not post an image of either of them then?

>>15502596
Think for yourself.

>>15504513
>Intentionally planned on slaughtering dort workers, is exposed by Kudelia
Huh? Kudelia exposed GHorn in S1, but Rustal wasn't involved and it wasn't his sphere of influence.

>Revealed he started a war between 2 economic blocks
Unproven claim used for propaganda, Bearded Man destroyed all evidence

>Coup attempted
McGillis clearly was guilty of the coup, Rustal stopped him and families sided with Rustal.

>Plans to have a Deinsleif fired on his own forces, and "Conveniently" has several armed, organized and ready almost instantly
Please. Any strategist would thought that the enemy known for not giving a shit about spirit of medieval honor that already used banned mecha crossbow would require mecha crossbows to deal with. Can't blame the man for foresight, and no soldier and their families on his side gonna cry over efficient plan that didn't require to risk their lives in a big pointless battle.

>He and his pal call and see tekkadan as 'Rats' 'Trash' 'Dogs' and 'monsters'
>But we're expected to believe he honestly cares for just one to the point that she'll succeed him? or that he even cares about human debris?
Politics. Human Debris were source of manpower for criminals and rebels, that's the only reason Rustal needed to ban the thing. And let's not forget that Tekkadan sided with a two-faced traitor solely on a promise of getting power and influence.

>>15503144
It sounds like you're not really a fan of the franchise

>>15503895
>You get within CQC range, the weapon is beyond worthless. We even see this when Julietta messes up Shino's shot
Julietta wasn't even anywhere near Shino, much less in CQC. That's a whole nother pile of bs

>>15506500
>Politics. Human Debris were source of manpower for criminals and rebels, that's the only reason Rustal needed to ban the thing.

Another thing is that Human Debris are a major source for AV system recruits (since the surgery can only be done on kids) and Tekkadan showed how effective AV can be, so banning Human Debris is actually a sensible way to ensure that there won't be another Tekkadan or more AV pilots to challenge Gjallarhorn or disturb the status quo in the future. It's more ruthless pragmatism and less caring about the 'plight of the children'.

>>15506915
Maybe that's because of messy directing, but Julietta thrown some metal thing at Shino before Mika hit her, and that metal thing hit Shino making him miss his shot.

>>15506500
>Think for yourself.
So everything you said is bullshit. Good to know

>>15506500
>>15506940
I like how he didn't refuete a single point and instead just went on with his headcannon

>>15506940
>Human Debris are a major source for AV system recruits
not really, all of tekkadan had AV, yet only a dozen of them were debris
major source of AV soldiers are just poor kids (like Hush's brother), only faction we saw use human debris extensively are pirates.

>>15507171
Throwing something at someone isn't cqc.

Cqc is close quarters combat.

>>15507268
I'm not the guy who used cqc argument, but that scene showed you can fuck up mecha crossbow if you are just anywhere close to it.

>>15507258
>here's a simple logical explanation
>SO IT'S BULLSHIT
Ok.

>>15507261
>Here's what in the show is against your problems
>HEADCANNON
Ok.

>>15500302
Who cares that series sucked ass so much it had a felching fetish.

>>15507266
Orga said only like 6 members had AV at the start of s1.

>>15507544
>Nothing I wrote was stated in the show so you must take it as fact
>Gets called out for it
>NO U

Okay

Are you talking about the 10,000 word ACE interview that came out? Because I have it and could scan it front to back. Nowhere does it say Rustal was slotted to die in the original "Tekkadan dies" ending.

Though a funny tidbit from the interview is that apparently Nagai and Ogawa both think Kudelia will not last long in office and that she's got too much dirt on her, especially in relation to Nobliss murder and how things will come out about him and her connection with him. Nagai said he thinks she would be ousted.

He also said the human debris treaty wouldn't actually do much to stop human debris, since most people who partake in it don't follow what's legal anyway.

>>15500302
No Rustal did reforms because he is fucked if he doesn't. He was to make Tekkadan an example of Gjallarhorn's might but instead of accepting surrender Rustal double downed. This resulted in making Gjallarhorn look weak in the face of Power Blocs increasing their own military forces.

Why do you think Rustal supported an independent Mars with the Mars Union? Martians were fine being autonomous settlements of the Power Blocs the only problem was Gjallarhorn interference. Kudelia was pushing for resource economic independence not secession.

Rustal wanted the Mars Union to offset the Power Blocs to prevent them from unilaterally coming after him for war crimes.

>>15506500
>Huh? Kudelia exposed GHorn in S1, but Rustal wasn't involved and it wasn't his sphere of influence.

Um no the Airanhod fleet that was massacring the Dort Workers was under Rustal and as shown in Season 2 has a habit for False Flags like Dort.

Maintaining Status Quo to Rustal means keeping to stall progress of the rest of humanity as Gjallarhorn stays on top. As shown with the CEO and African Union they were actually reasonable and willing to give workers their due rights. Abrau as show was willing to give Chryse its economic independence so it would be mutually beneficial.

What this means is that the Seven Stars are idiots when it comes to economy and Enlightened Self Interest. It was after Tekkadan killed a sizable portion of Gjallarhorn ground forces on Mars did Rustal see the writing on the wall that the Power Blocs may have the right idea. Only to save his own skin.

>>15508573
>Only exposition is canon, anything else is headcanon.

Okay

>>15509460
I would say that character's actions are important as well. But the problem lies in the fact that Rustal is a severely underdeveloped character and nothing he says or does indicates that he sees human Debris as a threat

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>>15508891
>Martians were fine being autonomous settlements of the Power Blocs the only problem was Gjallarhorn interference. Kudelia was pushing for resource economic independence not secession.

Kudelia was the face of the independence movement and there was a free mars rally in episode 1 of the series. She was just pushing for the deregulation on mining and working to fix mars' economy as steps towards that independence.

>>15510883
Oh good, something connected to what I wanted to say.

MARS. IS. FUCKED.

Think about it. Even if that quote about Human Debris is fake, it still brings up a good point. The people who use slaves in PD aren't concerned about what's legal or not. Pirates, mafia, mercenaries, they'll still continue doing it regardless of the legality.

It was already bad with Gjallarhorn present on Mars, but now they're gone. The police have left the building. They're not there to protect the people any more. Mars is going to become even more lawless in all likelihood and is going to have to create it's own defense force and you know what? Gjallarhorn has a monopoly on Ahab reactor manufacturing. Mars doesn't know how to make those things in order to create mobile suits.

Pirates around Mars are probably going to get worse, just like they did between s1 and s2, and they're going to use Human Debris. Depending on how far away Gjallarhorn pulls out, the shipping lanes are sure to become infested with the bastards. This will cause the price of imported goods to go up due to the need to hire protection, not to mention driving up prices for the buyers of their exports, creating more demand for mercenaries and the less legit ones may use child soldiers. Prices going up may increase poverty.

So, Mars is stuck buying MS or Ahab reactors from someone in order to protect itself. Sure, Teiwaz is there but they're mafia. Their MS are probably considered black market and Kudelia can be booted from office by the public, a public who love Gjallarhorn right now. It's either that or Mars asks Gjallarhorn to reopen their local branch. Mars may be independent now but sooner or later they're going to be crawling back to Rustal.

This is that false happiness Nagai was talking about, isn't it?

>>15503896
>declares sexual intent

>>15508785
Please post.

>>15508785
>Because I have it and could scan it front to back. Nowhere does it say Rustal was slotted to die in the original "Tekkadan dies" ending.
Cool horseshit bro. The interview says clearly that was the case.

The second part is also bullshit

>>15511639
>It was already bad with Gjallarhorn present on Mars, but now they're gone. The police have left the building.

Anon, Mars was a libertarian paradise and G had been bribed into not enforcing laws on it while the rich hired PMCs to look after their interests for at least a decade already at the start of S1. With them being gone, all that'll change is that they'll be throwing even more cash at hiring mercs to engage in more open warfare.

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Even if this thread is full of "Toriyama totally said in an interview SSJ5 is real!" levels of bullshit, it's actually giving me some good ideas for running an IBO tabletop rpg campaign set post-series.

Carry on.