"Antagonists" that did nothing wrong

>>15462091
>Antagonist
What? He's a secondary protagonist/rival if anything

>>15462131

Thus the quotes

murdered the fuck out of the Thunderkittens though but they deserved it

>>15462127
Shinn please.

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Compared to the options of allowing the AEUG to become an extension of Anaheims shenanigans or allowing Haman to invade Earth during ZZ, this man did everything he could to try and prevent such horrors. The only thing he did wrong was allow a Jovian to serve alongside him.

>>15462136
He also destroyed clone town and fucked up the entire train central station

Not to mention he accidentally shot his own brother

The thunderkittens where asking for it though

>>15462136
>Thunderkittens
What?

>>15462163
It was his plan to start a war between spacenoids and the federation by riling up the spacenoids. Scirocco explains it. Jamitov would've approved of Haman's Neo-zeon war.

>>15462185

Is that truly so wrong though? It was inevitable that spacenoid animosity to the Federation was beginning to boil once again following the the 30th bunch gas attack and confirming the hold out of Zeons hiding on Earth and at Axis.

On the other hand, the Federation had grown stagnant and horribly corrupt, to the point of it focusing more on re-election campaigns and census fudging rather than actually trying to protect the Earth or its people.

To ensure a true future for mankind, both the Federation and Zeons remnants would need to be snuffed out. By allowing Haman to attack Earth with the full power of Axis behind her, not only would the last spark of Zeon be finally snuffed out for good, but the Federation would be driven to be brink of collapse, allowing for a reformed system to replace, one that would ultimately benefit the restoration of the Earth.

Note: A lot of this information technically comes from the Gihrens Greed series. After defeating the AEUG, the Titans are able to recoup themselves at Kilimonjoro base to stop the radicalized African Zeon corps from ravaging Dakar and the Middle East, thus cutting the total losses from the ZZ series, which tallied to about 1.7 Billion killed in Africa/Europe and Eurasia to roughly less than 500 million. Add this alongside using Gryps 2 to stop the Colony from hitting Dublin, many more lives being thrown into the meatgrinder by the Federation are spared as well.

Basically, its commiting a great evil to accomplish and a greater good for humanity. The only real flaw of this entire scenario is if Bask is still alive. Going by the events of Gihrens Greed, had Bask survived, he would have eventually had Jamitov assassinated, and turned the Titans in an actual Right Wing death squad with no long term goals or motives. Scirroco, despite being an underhanded sociopath, would have opened up many of the Jupiter Energy Fleets to Earth, essentially putting more pressure on Earth and Space to obey the Titans.

>>15462176
Twin children who worked for the big villains.

IIRC the main cast hesitated fighting them since they were kids. Ray just sniped the crap out of them and killed both.

>>15462231
Oh, the twins? Why are you calling them Thunderkittens, I don't remember that name.

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DIO

>>15462288
they basically had the same gimmick , being annoying little children with similar hairstyle and...pranktastic weapons

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>>15462091
I'm serious

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Yeah, on one hand, his schemes were horrid and his end goal was an extinction event, but on the other hand he never actually accomplishes anything that does lasting harm after his escape from the laboratory (which itself wasn't evil given Big Bang's plans with him).

He's also pretty much one of the only good things about the show during the later parts before the final arc, so that's great. And NORIO FUCKING WAKAMOTO too.

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>>15462091
He literally did nothing wrong.

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>>15462383
this

stagnant peace can be fearsome, look at europe

>>15462383
>thought he could be a mere spectator on a battlefield
>nothing wrong

>>15462091
Ray was technically something of a deuteragonist to Van. They were a parallel convergence of 2 guys seeking revenge on Clawed Man because of their murdered wives. In fact, I would've loved a side-story that depicted the events of Gun x Sword from Ray's perspective.

>>15462163
>The only thing he did wrong was allow a Jovian to serve alongside him.
The Jupiter Empire was fucking up the Earth Sphere and the colonies ever since Zeta. I've always wanted to see Crux Dogatie and Jamitov in the same room with Char, Haman, Delaz (if Stardust hadn't happened), and Brex Fora.

>>15462227
That's a slipper slope if there ever was one for UC Gundam. Putting your faith in Jamitov and the Titans is being in bed with a viper.

The only chance that there MIGHT have been a better outcome in the long-run with the Federation and Zeonic elements amongst Spacenoids if Gihren hadn't assassinated his dad and General Revil. Degin and Revil might have been able to hammer out moderate terms that would've prevented even more serious rifts between Federation and Zeon.

But yeah, fuck Basq. 0083 made me hate that dude even more.

>>15462231
>sniped
First one yeah, second got AT gunned in the fucking face at pointblank range, that was hype as fuck

>>15462383
He was fucking retarded

>Earthnoids will always be warlike
>I'll introduce WMDs to prove that
>Holy shit they are killing each other, whyyy

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>>15462342

>>15462426
Vindel Mauser plz

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>>15463649
But that's Quad Vagina

This a Char who did nothing wrong

>>15462574
>Ray was technically something of a deuteragonist to Van.
Except he doesn't have nearly if not at all much focus and the only person who cares about him is his faggot brother Joshua in fact Van doesn't care much for him at all.

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>>15462091

With exception of not refocusing all nuclear attack efforts on destroying GENESIS at the battle of Jachin Due, this man was the last real hope of correcting the error of Coordinators.

The moment Coordinators were allowed to isolate themselves in space, along with the quickly developing genetic sterility flaws that were becoming more prominent in the third generation Coordinators, Coordinators began to redesIgnate themselves as a separate entity from humanity, and as such would have eventually waged war militaristic and/or economically against the Earth. Elimination was the only real option left to preserve mankind from a future of endless conflict and strife.

>>15462426

Counterargument: men with a romanticized view of what constitutes strength and how to preserve or restore it are usually the ones to fuck up good times and make them hard in the first place.

Addendum: I don't mean that to sound like social justice shite, because Marine le Pen and other women prove that they can be just as retarded about strength as a personal virtue that needs guarding as men, it just historically is normally men because of how society has organised.

>>15462150

>TRAITOR AND HOMOWHORE
>Thinking that a bunch of chunni samurais wouldn't either betray him or leave Earth in ruins

Ruling over Earth is pointless if it became a nanomachine covered wasteland (again)

>>15463916
>romanticized view of what constitutes strength and how to preserve or restore it
Such as?

>>15462165
>Not to mention he accidentally shot his own brother
He fucking deserved it, that stupid little shit jumped in front of the fucking bullet that was otherwise going to kill the Claw, directly resulting in the deaths of several people and Rey. His brother killed CHILDREN because that dumbass "didn't want his brother to kill anybody".

>>15463927

Sebastian Gorka is a pretty good example, holding up white nationalist propaganda and parading it as strength while happily advising on how to send other people's children off to die to help keep himself safe. Nationalists as a whole tend to romanticize strength, both personal and social, as something they have to guard and that keeps society functioning and whose absence or deterioration is what's responsible for all of society's problems.

>>15462091

What the guy in OP was the sidekick buddy like Genos or Jet or Jin.

>>15464020
Strength is very important, to be fair.

>>15463639
You're retarded. His entire plan was for people to go to war because he believed peace created freaks like the Venusians of his homeland. He's not even the guy who put a literal WMD in the G-self.

The show even goes out of its way to show him enjoying the viewing of battles.

>>15464053

It is, but strength is only one important virtue and comes in many forms. It's also important to balance strength with creativity, empathy and other virtues. And to not romanticise strength as being the definitive answer to problems or a particular view of it. Mental acuity (mental strength basically) is responsible for a whole lot of the technology and systems that keep modern society running, but tends to be first to be vilified or abandoned in societies looking to purge 'weak' men (or women).

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>>15463916
>>15463927
To take an /m/ example, you could argue that the militarist faction of the Free Planets Alliance in LoGH were this. They went on about how it was their patriotic duty to fight the Empire, and that negotiating a peace with Reinhard would have been "weak," but their emphasis on military strength meant they neglected economic strength, and the FPA was ruined because of it.

As for OP, I always joke that we might see people say "DENON DID NOTHING WRONG" eventually, but you really could make a good case, all of his actions were motivated by his love for Earth.

>>15462439
>Earthnoids will always be warlike
No, RC era is the era of peace and posperity. Mankind haven't wage war on a planetary scale for over a century or more. Cumpa hated that, he tought to himself that peace made mankind weak and decadent and he wanted to end it all.
>I'll introduce WMDs to prove that
He leak all the taboo techs to everyone not to prove everyone is warlike but to let them feel the taste of battle and hoping that will create conflict thus create another mass genocidal war.
>Holy shit they are killing each other, whyyy
Nope, his only gripes in the show is how inefficient these men at waging war, funny considering he himself don't know how to war himself.

>>15464126
whoops meant to tag this >>15463639

>>15463703
He did almost everything wrong. His only saving grace was his faction's mobile suits and the Purus. And he couldn't even use those right.

>>15463916
>>15464020
>>15464087
I would say that the people who idealize strength, hardness and the nation are the weakest of the weak. They set up this false ideal to cling to, and set out to create it as they have nothing else. Look at Hitler, a man who was a failure at his chosen vocation of artist and during WW1 clinged to the military command away from the front lines. He rose to power preaching strength of nation and the necessary clash of the Aryan nation against all others, yet he knew little of the true experience of war. tl;dr: If you gotta constantly talk about fighting and how strong you are, more than likely you're a weak lowlife rather than someone with experience of true strength

>>15464087
yeah Denon was addressing his responsibilities towards Earth avoiding starvation
And really Deloyer is basically Just a shitty religion away from being goddamn filthy bajorans.

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>>15463887

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>>15464087
Denon really did do nothing wrong
Actually I think imprisoning all the cabinet people from this scene was pretty morally dubious
But on the wider scale he was just trying to do right by earth and he had his responsibilities.

>>15463887
>sterility flaws
>endless conflict and strife
Blue Cosmos logic at its finest.

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>>15464277
denon is sketchy until he starts bullying lecoque at which point then he's an anti-villain because helmut has no morality

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>>15464301
>bullying Lecoque
Fuck off Lecoque.
That said, your plan somehow worked out pretty well

>>15464301
Denon did wrong when he didn't fire leCock and appoint Rick to Vice Secretary of Beating The Shit Out Of leCock Some More

>>15464209
What about any of those individually, since those are desirable traits?

>>15464284

The threat of impending extinction would drive Coordinator efforts to find ways to either cure or at the very least stunt the development of the flaws. Given how the Coordinators were already fully capable of developing N-Jammer technology, which could completely derail entire national energy grids and economies, along with radioactive super weapons like GENESIS, what is to stop them from claiming total dominance over the resources of space, along with using the previously mentioned weapon and technology to strong arm the Natural population of Earth into being a lower caste to them, possibly leading into an even more draconian control system than Durrandals Destiny Plan.

Honestly every option in the Cosmic Era is bad, but going from most reasonable to worst, it would most likely go...

1.Blue Cosmos
2. Z.A.F.T [Durrandal]
3. Three Ships Alliance
4. Z.A.F.T [Patrick]
5. LOGOs
6. Terminal/ORB

>>15464352
It's almost as if there needs to be an Alliance to keep them in check.

>>15462227
the best ending for UC would have been if char the manbaby kidfucker had grown up and led AEUG himself

>>15463649

char only betrayed people as char, never as casval, hence he never betrayed anyone.

>>15462288

He's making a Thundercats joke

>>15464398
You are on the right track with that thinking, however Char alone would have eventually pushed for removing humanity from Earth by force. Had he been mediated by Blex Forer and the two of them worked alongside one another to bring reform, I imagine the Earth would have been given a form of stability, along with having Char around would allow for Anaheim to be pushed to the side instead of becoming the lord and master of AEUG's future development.