Things Tomino shouldn't have done in CCA

>>15437203
I feel bad for Astonaige. He was there for like 100 episodes and then he died in that stupid way

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>>15437224
Tomino likes shock value

>>15437224
How did he die again?

Honestly, my only gripe with CCA was that it starts in the second act and ends immediately after the climax. It would have been nice to get a complete three-act story, however they might have done it.

I agree that killing off Astonaige, especially so casually, was a big WTF moment for me.

>>15437239
Trying to stop Hathaway.

>>15437239
Burned by Re-Gz's thrusters or getting hit by missile? Gosh he's so irrelevant I can't even remember how he exactly died.

>>15437239
Gorged himself on two portions of salad.

>>15437203
Screw Quess and Hathaway. Two recycled characters from Zeta only two time worse than the original.

Even Hathaway couldn't get over Quess he died because of it.

>>15437258
>You mean, Chan?

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>>15437203
CCA should have been a straight adaptation of Beltorchika's Children, seriously there is nothing in CCA that BC didn't do better

>>15437203
Imagine the reaction if he casually killed Bright instead or have Bright killed by Hathaway

>>15437276

There is at least one thing: animation.

>>15437239
He tried to stop Chan from going out with the RE-GZ and died by a stray missile

>>15437203
I wish CCA was series of OVAs.

>>15437276
This, Beltorchika's Children is the superior version of CCA.

>>15437302
I never read it. How is Beltorchika's children better than CCA?

>>15437203
It should have been called Char's Assault or Amuro's Counterattack.

>yfw the nu-gundam first appears
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahViU8_KMBg

>>15437203
>Adults are evil, children are pure.
This isnt Ideon motherfucker, and also I never once got the whole "children are pure" from Gundam, if anything they are just as murderous as the rest, see Hathaway, Quess, Katz, Sarah, and more!

>>15437313
Chars Revenge, Amuro's Counterattack, good point anon.

Or, and just hear me out, it should have been called "Chars Midlife Crisis.

>>15437401
What the fuck are you talking about? Gundam has that shit in spades

>>15437309

Here's some of the differences

- Chan doesn't exist as Beltochika is Amuro's love interest and pregnant with Amuro's child
- Nu Gundam, Sazabi, and Jagd Doga were replaced with the Hi-Nu, Nightingale, and Psyco Doga
- Various name changes on Neo Zeon's side
- Quess pilots the Alpha Azieru right off the bat and actually ran off to find Char naked after throwing a fit
- The Psycoframe technology wasn't leaked through Anaheim, but salvaged when Amuro captured the Psyco Doga after Fifth Luna
- Hathaway kills Quess, which is important since Hathaway's Flash follows this canon instead of the movie's

There's actually an on-going manga adapation of the novel being published in Gundam Ace right now and scanlations is up to volume 4 (beginning of the first attempt to destroy Axis), volume 5 just came out last month but scanlations isn't out yet.

>>15437448
Wow that does sound better than CCA

>>15437432
>Dont kill this bitch I like and have been stalking.
>Even though she has killed multiple of our friends.
>Oh no, you killed her, now I am gonna kill you.
>And blame adults! Its adults fault reeeeeee!!!
>Whoops Im gonna fly into an asteroid and die now bye bye.

Ya, and the ones who do that kind of shit, get blown the fuck out and killed, you didnt see Amarou do that, well, he did, then he realized how big of a dumbass he was for it and changed his ways.

>>15437203
At least my man got to have Su's special salad

And fuck her

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>>15437309
>Psyco Doga

>>15437203
>He also should have cut back on his adults are evil and children are pure thing because at that point it was getting really old.

This isn't a thing at all in Tomino's gundam.

Children in Gundam aren't pure in any moral sense, they're foolish and need guidance. Adults aren't evil, they're misguided and end up neglecting the children or bring the kids into the fold either intentionally (Char and Quess) or not (Katz).

Tomino's UC is about the old generation failing the next, so the next generation turns out as misguided as the last, or worse. And it's not only parents to child but also between regimes and successors.

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>>15437448
>>15437496
You guys got it a bit wrong. Psyco Doga isn't in that picture and it isn't even in Beltorchika's Children, it's from CCA MSV and is basically a miniature prototype Alpha Azieru.

http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/cca-msv/nz-222.htm

Psyco Geara Doga is the machine that appears in Beltorchika's Children and it's this sexy thing. It's less aggressive but more.. regal looking than the Jagd Doga.

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I'm sure one of the big things some people wish he did was go into detail on what Haman's brazen action because the phrase 'Brazen action' doesn't mean 'it happened in ZZ' if Zeta happened and you just skipped to CCA.

I'm gone for a bit and you couldn't even bother to keep the thread alive?

You disappoint me /m/, now let the endless waltz commence again where you repost your arguments so I can read them and shoot them down.

>>15437469
Did someone say Suu?

>>15437545

Apparently the name was chanaged from Psyco Doga to Psyco Geara Doga after the NZ-222 came to be to avoid any confusion, the BC manga still just calls it Psyco Doga though as seen as the page you posted

>It's less aggressive but more.. regal looking than the Jagd Doga.

The flag-bearing scene made it even more so than usual

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>>15437315

>>15437553
I forgot why you think ZZ isn't canon

>>15437203
>Your soul is pulled by Earth's gravity

>>15437545
>Space MP40...
Zeon you were suppose to try not looking like nazis...
At least the Sazabi had Aliens pulse rifle.

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>This nu Neo Zeon isn't just for show

>>15437585
Movies take priority in canon.

When ZZ gets a movie treatment, the timeline will get realigned again.

>>15437621
What's your take on it now that the Origin movies exist?

>>15437632
It's going to sound like a cop out at face value, but it's an alternate timeline along with Thunderbolt due to the fact they aren't retcons of existing series and have different tech. (Examples being Char's Zaku possessing Vulcan cannons and a sniper rifle that would one shot the Trojan Horse.) Furthermore they didn't try to integrate it into the rest of the series like with War in the Pocket's designs which were originally going to retcon the designs of the original series, but that was scraped and they then created the Universal Maintenance Plan to make them an offshoot.

You have:
>Movies

>TV series

>Origin

>Thunderbolt

I'll also stress that just because a series isn't canon, doesn't mean it's still not an officially recognized and doesn't exist. G-Savior is a perfect example

>>15437666
How do you explain Hamon deciding to drop everything and leave in ANT?

>>15437694
She clearly explained the situation was to hot and she pulling out of the Earth Sphere until things cooled down. If that's not satisfactory, file complaints with Tomino

>>15437666
What about Origin's attempt to tie itself into the prime timeline technologically?

http://www.gundam-the-origin.net/msd/images/flow.jpg
http://www.gundam-the-origin.net/msd/images/flow2.jpg

They're clearly making references to 08th MS Team and MSV material with links to Aina's Zaku prototype with Dom legs and stuff like Aqua GM and the Psycommu System Zaku.

>>15437621
B_K you already got BTFO on this subject the last thread. Don't do this to yourself.

>>15437700
Tomino? The guy who made the Zeta movies as a stand-alone alternative ending to the TV series? The one that cares extremely little about narrative synergy because "I's just robot anime!"?

That Tomino?

>>15437708
It depends on if they actually go anywhere with this and deal with the obvious contradiction in Char's Zaku having to be downgraded and changing the paintjob by the time MSG began.

>>15437710
When the entire crux of your argument boiled down to 'What the definition of 'is' is'? I would understand why you seem not know what 'blown out' means either. But go on, tell me how great the Federation is great at suppressing information so no one would know about her actions during the Gryps Conflcit.

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>>15437571
Geara Doga Psycommu Test Unit is my favourite

>>15437666

You should probably also stress that the entire thing is assumption on your part, that there has never been any official word from Sunrise, Bandai or Tomino to say that the A New Translation movies are now canon and that ZZ and Unicorn continue to receive support in info books, games, manga etc. as how things went down despite the A New Translation movies being a decade old or more at this point.

>>15437763
More like it gives legitimacy to the whole TV/Movie deviations since Unicorn, which does make mentions of ZZ, got a TV series.

If I see Tomino again, I'll be sure to ask him.

>>15437773

Unicorn getting a TV doesn't actually legitimize anything. Until and unless Sunrise, Bandai or Tomino say anything about canon nothing you say is officially supported canon - just how you personally think it should go. Which is fine, no-one's stopping you from doing that. Pushing it as official canon for years at a time is silly though.

>>15437726
Isn't the assumption that Origin will take precedent over the original series and movies? Especially -if- they ever get to the point of starting to cover the storyline of the original series and movies? It's not so much a contradiction as it would be a revision or update?

>the obvious contradiction in Char's Zaku having to be downgraded and changing the paintjob by the time MSG began
There have been other "contradictions" before. Zakus originally didn't even have thruster nozzles on the backpack. Rocket thrust just came out of the backpack's lower bottom. Now it's just accepted that it was a limitation of the animation at the time, and we know that Zaku backpacks have thruster nozzles, newer lineart having taken precedent over the original series animation.

As for why the equipment is used or not, they can find other explanations. Perhaps Char just didn't choose to take the sniper rifle with him, or he didn't bother to use the vulcans because he didn't think they would be worth using because of how durable the Gundam's armor is.

Or maybe if they do cover Char's initial encounters with the White Base, he will bring the sniper rifle and use the vulcans in new animation. We already know that Origin's depiction of Char in the Battle of Loum "contradicts" MS Igloo's depiction of Char in the same battle. The former has him with wingmen and using a sniper rifle, the latter has him going entirely alone and using sturm faust rockets.

>>15437448
Pointing that while the movie practically tells you Char leaked the Psycoframe to Anaheim, the Psyco Doga is left behind so Amuro could use it.

>>15437776
All we can do is work with what they give us unless they finally come out with an official statement to settle things once and for all. Until then, it's just a constant drip, drip, drip and working with the presidents set. 'Film'.

>>15437778
Animation error and limitations are one thing, if you were to ask the original animators if they had the time and money to draw and animate the thruster nozzles would they? We don't know but I'd like to see you try and make the argument of them saying no. Regardless, it's a false dichotomy since there's a major difference between animation limitations and outright changing the design and loadouts. The major difference is previous times the Zaku's design was changed, it was justified that it was a different model. War in the Pocket had the FZ and Stardust memory had the F2. In Origin, they're using the same designation as the original models. So Origin is going to represents a major shift in canon or it's going to be its own thing. And considered the source material, it's obviously going to be latter. (Remember that Amuro built Haro in the original series, it was not something bought and given to him like in Origins.)

Weapon wise, the choices wouldn't make sense, even if you claim Char was being pragmatic and opted not to use his sniper rifle, it wouldn't justify one of his wingmen not to use it and either down the Trojan Horse or provide Char cover from afar. Also the idea he wouldn't use his vulcan cannons because he knows they would have no effect on the Gundam doesn't make sense because he's going into battle with his machine gun. With the intel he has, he should be using the 280mm bazooka. Speaking of that, you should take into account how that is now magazine feed and not front loaded.

>>15437726
>When the entire crux of your argument boiled down to 'What the definition of 'is' is'?

No, you misunderstand your position in this argument. Your argument rests on this convoluted headcanon of what-ifs and stories untold simply to justify this claim that the films and TV series have separate timelines based on a misunderstanding from Mark Simmon's paraphrasing of an interview from Dengenki Hobby in 2001, when the actual literal translation of Horiguchi Shigeru's claim is "I count whatever's in footage as official" (no context of actual film format is mentioned, nor is there any attempt to distinguish film from TV in that interview beyond Shigeru saying he thinks of Gihren's Greed as in-universe fictional film.)

In other words, the burden of proof is on YOU to prove YOUR stance on the matter, and the facts stand against you.

>But go on, tell me how great the Federation is great at suppressing information so no one would know about her actions during the Gryps Conflcit.
Why would they even have to? Haman didn't do anything but destroy the Gate of Zedan, which had been taken by the Titans by that point, and then promptly fucked off to go be harmless away from the feds and colonies. She contributed very little to the strife in the Earth Sphere. Beyond maybe pissing off a politician or two. Even the population of Axis is only around 30,000, so those that decided to stay behind aren't have been enough to cause a serious refugee crisis.

Haman's brazen actions is an obvious reference to the First Neo Zeon War, and seeing as ANT was not even an idea at the time of CCA's production, the burden of prood rests on you to prove there is a clear connection between ANT and CCA, and given that there are inbetween stories that fill in the very concerning blanks and plot holes, that is objectively impossible without fanfiction.

>>15437943
tl;dr you are, at best, a fanfiction idea guy (not even a writer) INSISTING that his ideas is objectively correct in the eyes lf Sunrise, and there is nothing you can say that will change that.

>Black Knight returns
RIP this thread. At least there isn't a tripfag called Black Squire yet

>>15437943
You seem to be the one not understanding your position since the article you're citing when translated comes out as 'film'. Also they go out of their way to say that animated scenes in game are not considered canon which blows up your assertion on 'footage'.

Destroying the only major military stronghold tof Side 3 (Even if the puppet government just handed it over to the Titans) and then returning claiming you were going to revive the Zabi Dynasty is going to raise some eyebrows and heads in Side 3 even if it does not come to anything in the end. It's like if we found out that Russia did try to hack the voter rolls, alter vote counts in the election and have all this covered up by the US government. Sure the Russians failed in their objective, but the fact they tried to go after our electoral system directly would be kinda of a big event that would make people go 'I want to know more'

>Haman's brazen actions is an obvious reference to the First Neo Zeon War
When it first came out yes, but with the glory of retcons and the the vagueness of Char's speech, it means what happened in A New Translation.


You should stop getting so mad at me and actually post things that are concrete. So far you're being more subjective than you're accusing me of being.

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>>15437872
>The major difference is previous times the Zaku's design was changed, it was justified that it was a different model.
But don't newer depictions of Zakus include the thruster nozzles? Originally the Zakus in MSG were just Zakus, but we know they're F type Zakus. In later depictions of F type Zakus, the backpacks obviously don't look like they did in the original series and movies.

>Remember that Amuro built Haro in the original series, it was not something bought and given to him like in Origins.
Is it confirmed that Amuro built Haro from scratch? I thought Haro was always a commercial toy, the one we see in MSG having been modified by Amuro. Amuro doesn't strike me as the kind of person who would be interested in building or buying toys, since it seems like Haro was more of a annoying hindrance than something actually useful at his home.

Given his tech-tinkering background and personality, it's much more likely that he was given the toy as a child (as a companion for him since Tem Ray would be away from home a lot) and that he modified it?

>Weapon wise, the choices wouldn't make sense...
Then it might just be a case of Char being limited with whatever supplies he has. In the first movie, Char already has first-hand knowledge that the 120mm machine gun doesn't really work against the Gundam from the first battle, yet he still uses a machine gun for their second battle. He does try to engage the Gundam in a melee fight with punches and kicks, though. I'm sure that if he had a heat hawk to use, then he would have brought one along with him if there was one available but he didn't.

>>15438002
Why does ZZ not canon? I really want to know why you believe this, even Unicorn considered it canon by directly referencing ships and events from it.

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This is how it should have went

>>15438010

Because of his positively baffling interpretation of the word 'film', mostly.

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>>15437872

Actually all we can do until then is work with what we have but we aware of the limits of that. Which includes acknowledging that nothing we make up is official or canon, including your preferred timeline.

Also, the precedent was not and has never been "film". The precedent you're referring to, as has been pointed out to you numerous times is that "only suits that are in material on film are canon/official". Which is a much different thing, with a couple of important provisos. Those being that it was an interview with a couple of Gundam producers giving their opinion on whether suits in games (mostly the Gihren's Greed games) were official or not and is neither official word on the matter, or word on canon applying to timelines - only suits. Nor is the word they use film as in movie, it's film as in the material that cels go on.

Even if you want to continue to disregard the word of people who actually speak Japanese and insist on using Google Translate's translation of the single word with no context despite every translation bot that gives context for the translation going against you, it doesn't change that film was never used to refer to timelines or official word in the first place - just a couple of guys giving their opinion on some games.

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>>15438010

He doesn't like ZZ basically, or at least, he doesn't like it's effect on characters and continuity. He will swear blind otherwise, and insult you for implying it (and presumably insult me for saying so), but pressed the right way he flares up and admits the truth occasionally.

>>15438003
>>15438018
And?
>Amuro doesn't strike me as the kind of person who would be interested in building toys
Did you even watch the first episode? He's a shut in tinkering with electronics and building things. Also the Haro was mass produced, they'd more than likely run into another Haro, yet it's the same Haro in multiple series. That seems like a major logistical problem to have a full compliment of Zakus and limited munitions especially when commanding a custom Musai. You also ignoring bigger problem of why would these weapons not show up any time during or after the war? A weapon with the power to two shot a Magellan class ship would be in high demand for anyone against the Federation.

>>15438028
Your entire argument comes down to quibbling over the word itself after it's translated and then translating it back to get away on a technicality. I'll await for you to next say that backstroke of the west is a faithful translation of star wars.

And even if you want to continue to disregard the words that people used because you disagree with the translation and then try to then discredit them as some guys giving their opinions on games. (Which is where you're retreating.) When later series use it, even if inadvertently as precedent. (See Gundam SEED.) And we'll see if the G-Reco movies ever take off and if Tomino makes any changes there.

>>15438079
>He's resorting to the old strawman of claiming I'm specifically targeting ZZ because I dislike it.
If that were the case, I'd be going after a series like SEED Destiny with even more vigor. Inb4 he then tries to claim my tongue and cheek comments after the series ending at episode 34

Nice try.

>>15437943
>and given that there aren't inbetween stories

>>15438108

I'm not translating it and then translating it back though, I'm just translating it. Machine translating it even, since it's apparently the only way to get an unbiased translation that you can trust. Nor is it any more of a technicality than your use of the word void of any context. It's less of one really, but it's certainly not more of one. I'd say I'm not retereating on anything either, since I never changed my mind on anything, but I don't even know what you mean by that so I can't say it definitively.

It doesn't matter if later series use films to establish canon, inadvertently or not, it only matters what someone in an official position says officially on the matter about the A New Translation films or UC continuity as a whole. Which no-one has ever done. Including the use of the word film you keep trying to set as a precedent.

>>15438108

> specifically says he doesn't like it
> calls people who do like it idiots
> specifically says he doesn't like it because of it's longer, does things he doesn't like and doesn't fit as well to his mind
> You're just trying to make a false argument that I say it's not canon because I don't like it

>>15438002
>You should stop getting so mad at me and actually post things that are concrete.
Not him, but you haven't posted a single damn concrete thing in this thread or last.

>>15438002
>Destroying the only major military stronghold tof Side 3 (Even if the puppet government just handed it over to the Titans) and then returning claiming you were going to revive the Zabi Dynasty is going to raise some eyebrows and heads in Side 3 even if it does not come to anything in the end.
There you go again writinf fanfiction; why would the spacenoid population care, Side 3 or otherwise, care about that? Sweetwater wasn't Side 3, why would they have any investment in a former RoZ installation?

Again, -what brazen actions-?

>>15438194
>Implying anything you greentext has any merit if I stick to principles.
Now find me posts where I try to claim other series I dislike should be retconned if you're really going to go down this path.

>>15438166
If that's the case, why would the original translation come up as film? Seems extremely odd that your translation you use for your picture then magically only applies to the film camera uses.

And even if you decide to go with 'there is no official policy' just look at how they are doing things. Origin is its own timeline. The author of Thunderbolt specifically said he was told he could ignore canon and do his own thing. Any retcons that did happen were done in movie versions. Unicorn magically gets a TV version.

I mean you COULD just say it's just happening like that, but first times an accident, second times a confidence...

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>>15437553
>I'm gone for a bit and you couldn't even bother to keep the thread alive?
That thread was bumped two or three times several hours apart, you just couldn't think of how to respond.

>>15438228
The Brazeen actions were stated, you're response is "'nuh huh' those don't count because there's no way people in Side 3 would know or care.'"

>Sweetwater wasn't Side 3
But it was located in Side, with citizens of Side 3 living in it. These are not hard dots to connect.

>>15438247
>Just hours apart
>Still manage to let it die.
I can assume you possess the ability to post the same reaction image every day for at least a week.

>>15438247
>That thread was bumped two or three times several hours apart,
Try a whole day

>>15438243

The original translation does come up as film. In all of them. It just gives context for and examples of use of the word in a sentence as well as translating it. Context and examples that make it clear it means the material film, not the type of entertainment.

And while you can quote Thunderbolt as an example of someone being told they can ignore canon till the cows come home, what you can't do is cite anyone, anywhere, ever saying that A New Translation is canon, or that films take precedence over TV shows as canon in all cases.

>>15438108
>Did you even watch the first episode?
You didn't even read my entire post. I already stated that he's a tinkerer. What I said was that he's not interested in toys, but he's tinkering with electronics. Therefore it's more likely that someone gave him a Haro toy and due to his interest in tinkering he tried to improve it, rather than Amuro actually deciding from the outset that he wanted to build a bouncy toy that says pointless stuff most of the time.

>yet it's the same Haro in multiple series.
It is not the same Haro. Kamille's Haro was said to be mass produced post-war toy. Banagher's Haro was given to him at the age of what, 5 to 10 years old, which means it was the same generation as Kamille's Haro. In CCA, Amuro describes the Haro he picked up from the hotel as being a "third generation" model.

>That seems like a major logistical problem to have a full compliment of Zakus and limited munitions especially when commanding a custom Musai.
Dozle gave Char shit for losing Zakus during the initial raid on Side 7 and it's clear that Dozle doesn't give Char much special treatment. On the other hand when Char is taken into Kycilia's care, he does get special treatment and their newtype testing unit is well equipped with the latest weapons, including a Zanzibar cruiser.

>why would these weapons not show up any time during or after the war? A weapon with the power to two shot a Magellan class ship would be in high demand for anyone against the Federation.
Simple, Zeon has limited manufacturing capacity and resources. Besides, we know that the EFSF was decimated early on so by the time of the Earth invasion, those weapons aren't in high demand anymore since anti-ship combat is no longer a priority. By the time the war goes back into space, beam rifles and cannons are the new trend (which Zeon cannot produce in large quantity either) and everyone wants those instead.

>>15438002

>When it first came out yes, but with the glory of retcons and the the vagueness of Char's speech, it means whatever I think it means in order to suit my own preferences

Let's exercise a little bit of honesty here, shall we?

>>15438258
>But it was located in Side, with citizens of Side 3 living in it. These are not hard dots to connect.
No it's not. Originally it was thought that Sweetwater might be at or near Side 3 since it's partly a closed-type colony, but there's no actual evidence of that, unless you can tell us otherwise?

http://www.mechatalk.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=15506

Some sources have even claimed that it's not located at any lagrange point, as weird as that is.

http://archive.li/7L5rl
>A makeshift space colony assembled to house refugees from the wars of the Universal Century. Sweetwater is constructed from one open and one closed colony, haphazardly bolted together. This decrepit refugee camp, located outside the stable orbits that house the other space colonies, is often overlooked by the Earth Federation and thus serves as a breeding ground for underground resistance movements like Char Aznable's Neo Zeon.

>>15438258
>But it was located in Side, with citizens of Side 3 living in it. These are not hard dots to connect.
Actually, Belty's brats is the only time it's location is ever mentioned, and in that, it's located near Side 5.

>>15438243

You don't have to be doing it with all possible examples to be doing it for one example. Humans aren't that consistent or logical.

>>15438349
Mark Simmons actually did some sleuthing on that subject, and came to the conclusion that it's actually closer to Side 7's neck pf the woods. Wish I could find the thread.

>>15438364
See >>15438329

>>15438423
Oh, fuck me.

>>15438258
>The Brazeen actions were stated, you're response is "'nuh huh' those don't count because there's no way people in Side 3 would know or care.'"

The people of Side 3 neither affect or are even involved with the plot of CCA, which makes it kind of bizarre that you keep coming back to the Gate of Zedan since it has nothing to do with anyone but Side 3, and even then, when it was destroyed, it no longer belonged to the Republic of Zeon in any capacity any longer.

Tomino shouldn't have made gundam

>>15437590
I'd rather see a space PPSh. That would be more fun

>>15438273
>The original translation does come up as film.
Exactly, all it comes down to is you attempting to nitpick. So until someone comes along and contradicts this or outright says A New Translation isn't canon. You can't just say it doesn't count.

>>15438289
I like how you make sure to state he doesn't like toys and he just likes to tinker in order to side step any notion he could build or invent things. I'll need to confirm it sometime, but I'm sure it was mentioned he built Haro. Why would it call Kamille Amuro then? Dozle gives Char shit because he his entire team was killed and he had nothing to show for it, that doesn't change the fact that Char's team lacked firepower. Furthermore to claim resources are the reason they didn't produce them is absurd because that would mean there'd be a general shortage of weapons. Also beam weaponry was not wide spread for Zeon mobile suits because only later models had reactors powerful enough to handle them. So doing anything to give older models like the Zaku an edge would be a must.

>>15438311
>I can't create a reasonable counter-argument so I'm going to be self righteous in making a rebuke against common sense.
There, I added honesty to YOUR post.

>>15438329
>>15438553
Interesting, but a few things you might find interesting yourself. Unless it was stated otherwise, Side 3 was the only source of closed colonies in the Earth sphere.

Also Marky's thread made a REALLY interesting observation
>I find even more odd that the Federation actually decided to repair its propulsion system after it was supposedly destroyed by Glemy's forces
You know what would solve that whole question of motivation by the Feds of repairing something that could easily be turned into a weapon of death against the Earth? Not repairing it because it never got destroyed in the first place.
Also it looks like you bumped the thread, good job whoever did that.

>>15443288
>I like how you make sure to state he doesn't like toys and he just likes to tinker in order to side step any notion he could build or invent things.
And yet you're also unwilling to accept that he might have just modified it. Should we call it quits on this point?

>Why would it call Kamille Amuro then?
Wong, Quattro, and Emma don't even bat an eye at that fact. Quattro says it's a "marketed item". Presumably it says Bright and Amuro's names because it's preprogrammed to say that as a generic line.

>Furthermore to claim resources are the reason they didn't produce them is absurd because that would mean there'd be a general shortage of weapons.
No, certain weapons can be in shortage because they may be mechanically complex and require more hours, material costs, or more effort to produce. There's also the fact that other heavy or anti-ship weapons exist that can cover the same role like the magella cannon for long range fire or bazookas for anti-ship use. Besides, sniper weapons are always a niche role. Simply because Char can land a precision shot to a Magellan's bridge with armor piercing beehive ammo doesn't necessarily mean every team needs a sniper rifle.

>Also beam weaponry was not wide spread for Zeon mobile suits because only later models had reactors powerful enough to handle them.
Even then Zeon still had issues producing enough beam weapons. Going off databook fluff, the first production Gelgoogs came off the production lines in what, October? Yet beam rifle production was set back and they weren't fully deployed until December. Similarly, the Act Zaku were meant to be able to use beam rifles but had to make do with machine guns instead.

>So doing anything to give older models like the Zaku an edge would be a must.
If that were true, then they would have refitted the Elmeth's bits into a portable self-powered beam gun, or produced more beam bazookas like the ones given to Rick Doms, yet they didn't.

Why did a thread about CCA's faults balloon to 85 repli-
>Black_Nazi infestation
Never mind, thread is unsalvageable.

>>15443288
>Unless it was stated otherwise, Side 3 was the only source of closed colonies in the Earth sphere.
Sweetwater is half open and half closed, right? That doesn't mean a closed type colony can't exist anywhere other than in Side 3's lagrange point.

That said.. Doesn't Side 3 consist entirely of closed type colonies because it doesn't get that much sunlight, being on the other side of the moon? That isn't to say it's in perpetual darkness, but if Sweetwater were to be functional, it'd have to have more sunlight than not since the open-type half of the colony needs it, otherwise they would have more "nights" than "days"?

>>15443368
tripfags ruin everything

>>15443388
>That said.. Doesn't Side 3 consist entirely of closed type colonies because it doesn't get that much sunlight, being on the other side of the moon?
If that's official that's retarded. L2 (the only point further away from the Sun than the Earth) is not far enough away for it to suddenly get that fucking cold.

It's a million miles past the Earth, yes, but Earth's closest and furthest approaches to the sun vary by like 3 million miles and we don't freeze solid every time it happens.

>>15437203
I liked the idea that Gyunei was originally Kamille. Yeah sure some would have complained, and it would have undermined the coma thing, but whatever.

Also do something with fucking Sayla Mass.

>>15443408
>Amuro casually murdering Kamille
I am surprisingly ok with this.

>>15437666
You've got G-Saviour wrong, it's actually the opposite: G-Saviour IS canon, but it's never officially recognized (they really hate acknowledging that it is canon).

>>15443406
He's not referring to distance or temperature. I think he means that L2 might receive less sunlight because of how close it is to the moon.

There are certain times where the orbit of the earth or moon would position it where it might be in between the sun and certain lagrange points, blocking sunlight, no?

>>15443288

Pointing out that the transaction has context that defines it's meaning and changes it entirely is not nitpicking. And while you can insist all you like that I can't say A New Translation is not canon because of it you also cannot insist that it means it is canon regardless because it's not an official statement and they still weren't talking about anything but the suits in games.

>>15443408

You like the idea the recovered Kamille at the end of ZZ who hates people who start wars for any reason and makes that abundantly clear during Zeta suddenly drops every bit of character he has to join a cause he'd hate and completely reverse everything he stands for?

>>15443449
A quick look at wiki's Lagrange info says
>It is, however, slightly beyond the reach of Earth's umbra, so solar radiation is not completely blocked.
You might need a couple of extra reflectors to bring more sunlight in, but it's not a blackout zone or anything.

If it was, it begs the question of why anyone in their right mind would want to set up colonies there? UC seems to make it abundantly clear Side 3 produces nothing the rest of the Earth Sphere can't do without, and it's not as stable a point as L4 or 5 so you'd need to constantly waste propellant keeping even a single colony cylinder from drifting somewhere unpleasant. If you can't even get enough free solar energy to make it self-sustaining then why fucking bother? Was it Space Australia, made solely for the purpose of exiling the scum of Earth there? No wonder Zeon was full of shitters.

>>15443481
Well, the closed type can hold more people. Sounds about right for shoving as many refugees as they could into space.

Now that I look it up, some sites are stating that the reason why closed type colonies were sometimes used as opposed to the Federation just building open type colonies that every other side seems to have, is that closed types are easier to build. No need for giant transparent windows or mirrors, it's just a simpler sealed tube with more nuclear reactors just to power the internal lighting.

That said, there are other closed type cylinders out there too, not just the ones at Side 3. Gryps in Zeta Gundam is a closed type colony, and it's located at side 7. It's eventually converted into the Gryps colony laser...

>>15443481
Ok, scratch this, there's a whole other detail I've forgotten to account for in this mess:

Which Lagrange Points are we using?

There's a set for the Sun-Earth system specifically, and then a smaller set for the Earth-Moon system. The latter points are what UC uses, and, lo and fucking behold, aside from closer proximity to Earth itself these are even worse places to set up shop than the Sun-Earth Lagrange points, thanks to the fact that the Earth-Moon points still have a BIG OLD FAT SUN pulling on everything to boot.

On top of all that, the Sides themselves seem to be in halo orbits around the individual points (hence how you're getting more than one Side per point without things getting exceptionally crowded), but this means wasting even more propellant for station-keeping than just hanging out at the point and calling it a day. So you've got shit orbiting shit orbiting shit ad nauseum. Wheels within fuckin' wheels, man. except all the wheels are ellipses -- if you're lucky -- and in three dimensions and wobbling all over the goddamn place.

Fuck gravity.

The upshot of all this, re: the shit that started this whole quest for knowledge to begin with, namely Side 3 and how much sunlight it receives is: it should get fucking plenty. More reliably so than the equivalent Sun-Earth L2 point, possibly, and Side 3's orbit wobbles it out from behind the moon enough for it to probably not care.

So Side 3 being closed on account of AIDS (which we mean solar radiation, which at least still is cancer) is hilariously bullshit and written by a guy who never stopped to think why every fucking month isn't a solar or lunar eclipse. Lovely.

>>15443527
Coming back to this: this probably makes more sense. Ease of construction and willingness to shove nukes and more people into each colony, especially for a Side that, in the long run, is contributing jack shit to the Earth Sphere other than living space.

I still maintain it's the system's Space Australia.

>>15437230
It was this .gif that made me watch Ideon and I'm glad I did.
it was my first anime series from start to finish +movies, so it was technically gateway anime for me

File: 200000% MAD.gif (3MB, 500x746px) Image search: [Google]

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>>15443538
Bah. 'movie'. No 's'.

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As a further aside on the whole closed-colony mess, this pic pops up. Note what's flanking said colony.

>>15443570

> space flatbeds parked in their space backyard

Fucking Side 3 rednecks.

>>15443572
>Zeon is the space version of Confederate fanboys
It all suddenly makes sense.

>>15443288
>Unless it was stated otherwise, Side 3 was the only source of closed colonies in the Earth sphere.
The source of closed-type space colonies is the Federation, not Side 3. Side 3 is just comprised of mostly Closed-type colonies.

Sweetwater isn't even the same kind of closed-type cylinder.

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>>15443855
The source of ALL colonies is the Federation, closed-type or otherwise, and Sweetwater is newly built.

Black_Knight doesn't really have much of a point, there. Either way, it still begs the question of why he keeps coming back to the Gate of Zedan. It had become the Titans primary headquarters by the time it was destroyed, so even if the Republic of Zeon had anything to do with Char's Counterattack (which they don't), they'd be pissed off at the Titans for taking it in the first place. Haman destroying it, if anything, made them and spacenoids as a whole a lot safer from...y'know, gassings.

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>>15438002
You seem to be under the impression that the Titans were renting A Baoa Qu.

To clarify, it no longer belonged to the RoZ and nobody was under any obligation to give it back. It would be beyond silly if they were mad about Haman bisecting the space fortress they didn't own anymore, not to mention that the Titan's occupation of it served as a direct and present threat to spacenoids. Spacenoid refugees in the context of ANT have no reason to be mad at Haman, or even know who she is, really.

Sorry Black_Nazi, you're going to have to write some new fanfiction.

>>15437203
Why didn't bright have a framed picture of Astonaige in his office?

>>15437981
You called?

So why do people even bother having a debate with B_K if he's just going to use mental gymnastics for every single response? Are they hoping for a breakthrough or something?

>>15444360
Bright actually only had a picture of Amuro up to show off to privates and brag about having worked with him

>>15437276
Beltorchika's Children came after CCA.

>>15437448
You forgot that it's Beltorchika's fetus who pushes Axis back. And Hathaway's Flash makes more sense following the original CCA plot anyways.

>>15437621
>Movies take priority in canon.
Why?

>>15444408
It's actually kind of fun poking holes in his headcanon and seeing what bizarre, convoluted nonsense he comes up to justiwith next, so we can poke holes in that, too.

It's a vicious, but amusing cycle.

>>15444449
They don't, he's just a fruit loop

>>15443346
The fact it's preprogrammed to say Amuro's makes it much more likely that Haro was originally built by Amuro and it ended up being marketed after the war. That might apply to certain things like the Rick Dom's beam bazooka because of the requirements to build it. But producing a standard ballistic weapon would not have the same issues. Remember Char still had to be relatively close to fire his rounds with accuracy, and in the Black Tri-Star's case, they used scatter shot at point blank range. Also (production changes) wouldn't explain why the 280mm changed from being magazine fed to a much more impractical front loaded type. Not seeing how beam weaponry really comes into your point, it's matter of a mobile suit's reactor being able to handle it. Which is why you had certain weapons like the Rick Dom's beam bazooka have its own internal reactor instead of having the weapon use the mobile suit's reactor as a power source. As for the case of Elmeth, we don't the exact inner workings of it outside of the fact it has its own reactors and is connected to the Psycommune system, and more importantly, there was only a week left for the war, if they had more time, would they have created a weapon weapon that even units like the Zaku II could use and not be as bulky as the beam bazooka which was limited to space use because of its size?

>>15443388
It's half open, half closed, but Side 3 is the only source of closed colonies in the Earth Sphere unless something gets retconned to say another Side was constructing them.

>>15443416
Going to have to source me on that one.

>>15443463
How is it not nitpicking because you're using something that only helps your case, while at the same time whenever a movie version of a Gundam show is released, the movie takes priority. If anything, I'd compare it to a director's cut or DVD release where they fix flaws that weren't just from animation.

>>15444899

Every argument ever only helps someone's case. That's the nature of an argument. Just because it helps my case doesn't make it a technicality or wrong. I might as well dismiss your arguments because they help you. Nor does every movie released take priority. That's a circular argument. You want to argue that every movie that comes out takes priority to prove that the A New Translation movies take priority over the TV animation, but you have to assume that the A New Translation movies take priority over the TV animation to make that argument in the first place or else it's not every movie even ignoring the special circumstances the Zeta movies were released under (i.e. completely changing the finale of the series decades after it and several sequel shows and movies had been made).

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>>15444899
You know that whole "retcon" claim you like to employ so liberally?

It can just as easily apply to the minor changes in The Origin OVA. Hell, if anything, they'd be a lot less awkward and jarring, since various gunpla kits tend to subtley change up designs whenever Banrise decides they need to milk a model number further. Even Haro's backstory can easily be rewritten to be a mere extensive modification of a talking toy than an lone product of Amuro's engineering that people mistook as his invention, and the existence of Guncannons can be explained away by the fact that the RX project was already well underway in 0078 and the battle at Mare Smythii was covered up, not to mention Char's line about the Federation building mobile suits can be explained away by the fact that technically Anaheim Electronics was behind the failed RCX-76, and that the V-Project suits were built in-house alongside the White Base. Those mental gymnastics can go both ways and I'm better at them than you are.

Still doesn't answer the question of what "Brazen actions" Char is referring to in regards to Haman, considering we've already established that the people of Side 3 have no reason to be angry at her for destroying a space fortress that was no longer theirs and that they no longer had any entitlement to or political leverage to win back, and that the population of Axis as a whole is not even close to enough to contribute in any meaningful capacity capacity to a serious refugee crisis, much less merely the ones that stayed behind, and they don't really have much reason to know who she is considering she never made any public declarations or appearances. Also doesn't answer how Char took power over Neo Zeon, an organization that does not exist in ANT's setting considering Haman Karn leaves the Earth Sphere, from Haman Karn who had no reason to give him her fleet, which has apparently now had an entire refit pro-bono by Anaheim's former Zeonic employees?

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>>15445055
>since various gunpla kits tend to subtley change up designs whenever Banrise decides they need to milk a model number further.
It's not just Gunpla kits.

As someone pointed out, the Zaku II in the 0079 days didn't even have visible thruster nozzles on the backpack; that was introduced by later iterations (mostly Gunpla). In addition, you could easily argue that 08th MS Team takes place in a different universe considering that IT was actually the first series to show Zakus using magazine-fed bazookas,
not Origin (Black_Knight, take notes) and subsequent animated series, games, and mangas introduced a 90mm machine gun to the Zaku's standard arsenal, to the point where it is considered a standard issue late-war weapon.

Origin is actually pretty inoffensive, as far as changes to the MS-06 go. Zakus going through changes from iteration to iteration should be no surprise, and if anything, welcomed.

>Anaheim Electronics was behind the failed RCX-76, and that the V-Project suits were built in-house alongside the White Base.

Don't forget that, if the boxart is any indication, the RTX-65 had to have been retroactively labeled a mobile suit by the Federation come the late 0070's, considering the term "mobile suit" was invented by Zeon far after the Guntank's original deployment (not to mention officially designating it an "Early type" when you are mass producing it is kind of silly in the present tense, and only makes sense in a past-tense rebranding.)

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>>15445089
The best part is, the Origin Mechanical Archive actually shows that the 280mm bazooka is modular, meaning the magazine-fed version is just the same weapon with a modification.

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>>15445096
>includes the 08th version within the modifications.

Based Katoki thinking of everything

>>15437203
Everything

>>15437203
Amuro