Is Char an Anti-Hero or an Anti-Villain? Was his plan to drop

>>15424050
He was a hero and he was proven right by Late U.C

>>15424057
Elaborate.

>>15424058

He's talking out his ass. Late UC proved him wrong if anything, and late late UC stuff like Turn-A and G-Reco definitively proved him wrong. Spacenoids are the ones in control in both settings yet newtypes are barely a thing in one of them and completely absent in the other but people do continue to war and all of them just want to live on Earth in both shows. Both also had apocalyptic scenarios that scoured Earth but people continued to live on them despite it, rather than abandoning it to recover because things had gotten bad.

>>15424069
So he's more Anti-Villain then?

>>15424050

Char was a trickster.

>>15424074

I wouldn't call him anti anything to be honest. He's an antagonistic character in 0079, but not really anti-heroic or anti-villain in his attitudes and behavior, just antagonistic. He's not an antagonistic or anything in Zeta either. And in Char's Counterattack he's just plain a villain. He wants to do something he thinks is good, and thinks of himself as a moral crusader of some kind, but he's really just a villain in it at the end of the day.

>>15424069
turn-a and g-reco are both different timelines than uc

>>15424050
It depends. In 0079 he was an antihero, in Zeta he was a hero, in CCA he was an antivillain. Then he was a hero again in Gaia Gear

>>15424090
But he's not exactly evil though, right? He's misguided, antagonistic, and known for evil acts, but he's not a truly evil person.

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>>15424099
This. Char is without a doubt the most complex and well-written character of the Gundam franchise.

>>15424050
He's an idiot

>>15424094

No, they're not. They're different calendars, but not different timelines. It doesn't matter whether they make sense, it's still true regardless. Fiction doesn't have to make sense. It's desirable, but not always achieved.

>>15424099

What was his heroic goal in 0079 though that he was going about in a non-heroic manner to render him an anti-hero? His goal in 0079 is to get revenge. There's nothing heroic about him in 0079.

>>15424106

He wants to start a war and enact a plan that will kill billions. That's about as evil as it gets. His motive doesn't matter when his plan involves those things really, but even if you want to say it does his motive is still irrevocably tainted by his desire to get revenge as part of his plan. A part that eventually undoes the whole thing. He acts partly in pursuit of something it's possible to view as good, but only partly, and even then it's only a possibility it'll result in good regardless.

>>15424187
Zeon under the Zabi family is arguably evil. Even if he was doing so for selfish reasons, killing them could be considered a heroic act.

>>15424191

Their death could be considered a good thing, someone killing them for revenge is at best a morally grey act that makes him neutral, not heroic. He wasn't acting out of a desire to stop their plans or kill them because their goal was awful though - he wanted to kill them because he thinks (and has no proof) that they killed his father. There's nothing heroic about that.

>>15424205
That's what makes him an antihero. He's doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.

>>15424208

He's not trying to do the right thing though. He doesn't care whether what he's doing is right or wrong.

>>15424216
Exactly. Antiheroes are often morally ambiguous, or even amoral.

>>15424050
>Is Char an Anti-Hero or an Anti-Villain?

Neither. In 0070 he was a villain who happened to have goals which sometimes benefitted the heroes, then in Zeta he was fairly straightforwardly heroic, though perhaps not always for the right reasons, then in CCA he was a straight-up villain. There's nothing anti about him, his circumstances just shift over the years and with them his allegiances.

>Was his plan to drop Axis onto Earth right or wrong?

Fucking wrong? How is this even a question up for debate when his own soldiers turn against the plan at the end? He tried to kill billions of people and make the Earth uninhabitable for thousands of years.

>>15424222

Anti-heroes also desire something good or heroic but go about it in a way that is villainous. That's what makes them morally ambiguous, that they pursue a good agenda using bad means. Char doesn't desire any good or heroic thing, he desires revenge. Revenge purely for it's own sake and with no thought of or concern for the aftermath. That's neither heroic or anti-heroic.

>>15424239

An antivillain is "a villain with heroic goals, personality traits, and/or virtues. Their desired ends are mostly good, but their means of getting there are evil." Char's goal was to bring humanity to space, allowing them to achieve greater heights while simultaneously allowing the Earth to heal. That's not evil. His means, genocide, was. Therefore, he is an antivillain.

>>15424250
Did Char really not care about the aftermath? With his revenge completed, he could actually try to fulfill his father's dream of humanity moving into space--and he did.

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>>15424191
The Zabis were OBJECTIVELY evil and needed to be stopped. Char's reasons for wiping them out though were out of revenge for his family rather than altruistic reasons.
>>15424239
This. In Zeta, Char was heroic only for the sake that he wanted to stop Haman Karn from brainwashing Mineva Zabi into becoming the next Gihren and bringing back the Zabi family.
In CCA, Char felt that the only way to end all warfare and get all of humanity to evolve into Newtypes like Zeon Zum Deikun wanted, thus creating eternal peace, was to drop a fucking meteor onto Earth and create 1000 years of Nuclear winter, thus forcing humanity off the planet.
Char is just the kind of character who will do anything to fulfill the wishes of his father, regardless of whether the actions are villainous or heroic.
He's not evil, but he's not good. He's amoral.

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>>15424250
Not exactly. He wanted revenge, sure. But he also wanted to fulfill the wishes of his father Zeon Zum Deikun, and was amoral in his means of trying to do so.

>>15424284

He didn't show the slightest concern for the aftermath during the actual show, and only pursued his father's dream years later. You could say he started when he joined AEUG, which was still 6 years later or something, but that was really because he wanted to stop the Titans, not because he wanted to pursue his father's dream. He does start doing so while a part of AEUG, but it's never indicated as the reason he joined.

Besides, there is literally no reason he couldn't pursue his father's dream while the Zabis were alive. Beyond that he wanted personal revenge.

>>15424300
This.

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>>15424304
Origin and 0079 Char: Get revenge on the Zabis for killing his father and tarnishing his father's dream of having humanity evolve into Newtypes, instead exploiting it for the sake of gaining power.

Zeta Char: Stop the Titans from enslaving humanity, which would restrict mankind from evolving into Newtypes like Zeon Zum Deikun wanted. Also stop Haman Karn from turning Mineva into the next Gihren Zabi.

CCA Char: Drop Axis onto Earth and force all of humanity to immigrate to space and evolve into Newtypes like Zeon Zum Deikun wanted, thus hopefully ending war.

Char's motivations have always remained consistent: to fulfill his father's wishes. He's just amoral so his means of doing so fluctuate between heroic and villainous.

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>>15424349

>>15424349

I don't know about Origin Char, since I haven't read it, but 0079 Char didn't want revenge because the Zabis twisted Deikun's dream of humanity. At least partially because Deikun didn't dream about humanity evolving in to newtypes in 0079. Deikun wanted people to move in to space because he viewed the Earth as sacred and came up with the idea of newtypes as a means of illustrating why Contolism was good, not for it's own end. Newtypes were only a small factor to him. Contolism was his end goal, not newtypes. 0079 Char just wanted revenge because the Zabis killed Deikun, at least as far as he knew.

blah blah blah I didn't betray anyone in my life

blah blah blah tried to put his moma complex into a child indian prostitute

blah upset he was never as good as amuro

fuckin does a 180 every series he shows up in

new types suck

>>15424393
>Deikun didn't dream about humanity evolving in to newtypes in 0079

In Origin, Deikun sees Earth as sacred and even refers to it as Gaia as though it were a person. I don't remember ever seeing Deikun mention anything about human evolution in Origin. The whole deikun newtype shenanigans is only present in the 0079 novelization, so he did dream about humanity evolving into newtypes in 0079.

>>15424416

> it was in the novels, therefore it was in the anime
> it wasn't in the manga retelling, but that doesn't count, presumably because it's an an alternate story
> but somehow the novels aren't

speaking of, is the torrent for thora release of counterattack still up anywhere? I don't wanna use a gorillion gb for the 1080p release

>>15424435
Well, the novels are officially licensed, so they can be described as semi-canon.

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>>15424050
He's a lolicon. That much we know for certain.

>>15424515

So is the Origin. Whether something is licensed or not isn't what determines whether it's canon or not. Not unless you're Black_Knight anyways.

>>15424535
deikun newtype stuff is more of a 0079 thing than an Origin thing. Basically, you got egg on your face now. It can't be helped that you fucked yourself trying to shit on Origin.

>>15424526
>lolicon
>four of all the girls haven't met him in person
>1 girl had a crush on him, but he didn't accepted her and she became an ice cold bitch
>1 girl had a crush on him and he used her in non-sexual way
>Only Lalah had full-scale relationship with him and she already wasn't a loli

>>15424535
That's why I used the word "semi-canon". I mean that parts of it are canon aside from a few discrepancies.

>>15424535
>>15424556

UC 'canon' has always been ill-defined at best.

>>15424542
Lalah was 17, so that'd also make Char a hebe for going after jailbait.

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Char's a Vice cop

>>15424565
That's only a year underage And in Japan she's probably well over the age of consent, from what I understand

>>15424556

If you can do it for the novels you can do it for Origin in that case.

>>15424540

I didn't try and shit on Origin anon. Literally all I said was that I hadn't read it and that it was as canon as the novels. Neither of which are "shitting" on it by any stretch of the imagination.

>>15424050
I bet that she passes through most of the age of consent laws in the world.

>>15424598
>>15424576
Fucking application

What was Char's endgame?

>>15425149
See >>15424349

>>15424050
He is a foil to main hero while dining a ton foil hat.
He was wrong because he did that out of desperation. Even Gaia Gear calls him out.

He's a manchild just like all the char clones that came after him

>>15425149
>Muh dad's ideals

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>>15424050
And he was right to do so. Humanity is the cancer of the universe and its needs to be eradicated.

>>15424050
Maybe instead of trying to fit them as a hero or villain in some show, try to look at him as a person dealing with the context of his universe

>>15424291
>eternal peace
Why do people spout this shit? Where in CCA does Char ever say that dropping Axis will result in eternal peace?

>>15424565
Char was like what, two years older than her? That's nothing

>>15425402
It's hard to have a war when everyone's dead.

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>>15424568
>>15424568
>I came here to do cocaine with you

>>15425418
Most people live in space in Gundam. People that live on Earth is a huge chunk, like maybe a quarter of the population, but the other three-quarters would still be good to go

>>15424568
Then who's Tubbs?

>>15425204
Does Reinhard count as a Char clone?

>>15425978
Yeah.