Let's talk about Bael

Macky thought the same way.

Truth be told, it was a nice machine and Macky was a good pilot.

But it turns out that's all it was. A basic gundam without the varied loadouts and upgraded systems of later models.

It has Agnika's soul

>>15390499
McGillis had bought into the romantic view of Agnika Kaieru and assumed most of Gjallarhorn had as well. Its purpose was political, though it seems to be a pretty good dueling machine on par with Kimaris (though the latter had a few more optimization passes for hot Gundam on Gundam action while Bael was likely using what had been good for fighting MA).

>>15390499
Bael fills the "go-fast" quotient, actually. It's the RX-78 of the Goetia. Macky just can't chunni hard enough to be Agnika Kairu, no matter how good his cosplay is.

If you want to bitch about melee MS being army leaders, Epyon was pretty effective when it had an army of mobile dolls with it.

>>15390499
I think it's only gimmick is that it has crazy wings.
Unless it had a weapon 300 years ago that it doesn't have now , those gold swords were actually grimgerdes

>>15390499
According to a card game it's like 50% faster than Kimaris Vidar.

But it's the first Gundam, what did you expect?

Barbatos Lupus Rex is a highly tuned up and upgraded version of the Calamity War version (Form 4). Form 4 is pretty basic and probably even more boring than Bael.

Gusion Rebake Full City is partially calamity war version but supposedly with more long ranged stuff. And it wasn't all that great. It was slow and about as strong as a regular MS when Guts used it.

Flauros and Kimaris are both very late models, in the 60s. No surprise they have a bunch of stuff, including Dainslief launchers.

Astaroth Origin is smack dab in the middle.

Dantalion's number 71, no big surprise that it's got the strangest gimmick.

>>15390566
They're slightly different and they're the Bael's swords. Made of gundam frame material according to the gunpla, so it's actually a downgrade to the Grimgerde's swords. But McGillis needed it for that sweet collector's set so he had to use them.

>Girls will never pilot a Gundam in IBO's setting

>>15390586
They're probably too weak to survive the surgery. Mika's tiny but he was strong enough to choke GaliGali like a bitch.

>>15390499
Bael is a gundam that was really only good with its original pilot agnika who nagai has described as a hot blooded shonen protagonist. I.e. Just imagine His pilot was domon kashu.

Macky thought he could do it. That he could be the legend that didnt need anything other than 2 swords to cut a oath to victory.

>>15390603
Nah, models with female pilots sell less.

>>15390575
>McGillis needed it for that sweet collector's set
I wasn't aware that Fashions Dark Souls was a thing in IBO. I guess that means Macky was a dexfag who liked his L2 attacks.

>>15390567
What are Astaroth and Dantalion in?

>>15390659
>These ancient swords have like 200/500 durability
>I'll be fine

>>15390613
That could be because they keep making Gundams or MS for girls pink or giving it feminine attributes for no good reason. The Rozen Zulu had fucking spike heels and had funnels shaped like flowers. The Strike Rouge was fucking pink.

>>15390671
>the ONE time Repair Powder would have been a good thing to use

>>15390499
Imagine what Barbatos can do in red-eyes mode, but can also fly. This is what made Bael so fearsome. It was the pilot that made Bael shine, not Bael itself.

Can we stop pretending that Bael is shit? It's the best Mobile Suit for 1vs1.

If IBO was written as a super robot series, Macky would have won the moment he got his hands on Bael.

>>15390660
Astarothis from the horrendous side manga, Dantalion is from the Gundam Tryage arcade game.

>>15390660
Astaroth's from IBO Gekko, a manga sidestory. Another gundam frame shows up in that too (Vual)

Dantalion shows up in Try Age (Arcade Game)

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>>15390691
then why he lose 1v1 against kimaris?

>>15390692
IBO isn't a SR, but come on. He would be doomed anyway because Galieo had the power of friendship of his side.

>>15390708
REVENGEANCE
Oh, and a helper in the form of an Ein brain.

>>15390708
Because Ein is the best pilot of this universe.

>>15390691
>Couldn't win against Gaelio
I dissapointed, the moment I saw the colour scheme I thought his gimmick was going to be funnels or some shit

>>15390673
>Rozen Zulu
>Female pilot
That said Kshatriya is pretty popular despite the female pilot

>>15390499
>So IBO's over and we're having a bunch of threads saying that it was both great and shit
>great
Where?

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You can't make a gundam design this fucking cool and do jack shit with it. Fuck you Sunrise.

>>15390499
Bael being overhyped is the point. The idea of super special gundams winning a war by itself is silly. It's the anti strike freedom

>>15390499
Its powerful enough, it went head to head with kimaris with ein(remember graze ein kind of moves) also new weapons. Choco clearly underestimated gaelo + ein. He couldve wiped them if kimaris was not there

>>15390708
Ein hax

>>15390744
What if bael has wing guns like freedom only all of it are mini dainsleifs shooters? That wouldve been rad

>>15390740
The whole concept of a more modern Gundam was great.

>>15390702
>>15390706
Thanks, chums.

> Try Age
That sounds horrific by association.

>>15390708
DEXfags always lose to righteous STR Lords

>>15390691
>best for 1v1
>loses only 1v1 it has

I can't remember a gundam more disappointing then Bael. All that hype and the only thing it has are head mounted mgs and two shitty swords and gets wrecked in its only real fight.

And don't give me the "it was just a symbol" nonsense, even if thats the case it shouldn't be such a pathetic piece of shit.

>>15390763
That could probably win an engagement by itself, yeah.

>>15390763
Kimaris Vidar has those. His "wings" can be used as shields, also.

>>15390808
Weren't those in the lance?

>>15390734
Ah, right. I kept thinking of him as a girl (for obvious reasons). That said, it has the same issues.

>>15390810
Yes. You're right.

>>15390692
no, he still would have lost because of the shonen trope where he wasn't actually the chosen one to pilot the special robot, it was someone else

>>15390708
because kimaris was giant dad in comparison

>>15390926
An actual good build compared to a cosplay one?

>>15390929
>giantdad
>good
Pick one
Barbatos is in the giantdad build, meme powered, slow, parry bait, loses to a Quality build.

>>15390941
It being not the best (or cheese) doesn't make it bad. By definition, if it has natural use competitively it's good, and Giantdad did have some until the Legend died in 2 and 3 when Poise and staggerlock mechanics got weird.

>>15390613
Kshatriya is popular as hell, though. People like the Quebely, too.

They just need to stop pigeonholing female pilots into shitty suits. Julieta's Reginlaze is a step in the right direction.

>>15391013
>shitty suits
>G-Lucifer
>Gastima
>Mazraster
>Qubeley Papilon
>Reginlaze Julietta
>Graze Ritter

>shitty
Eat shit you faggot. The Gastima in particular is one of the best design Gundam's had in the past 10 years and shits in everything from IBO except the Gusion Rebake.

>>15390499

Bael was good since Agnika was basically using its AV system at Hashmal vs. Barbatos levels of compatibility all the time. Also, McGillis was so delusional that he forgot that although Agnika and Bael were powerful, they didn't fight like a lone wolf; they were constantly being backed-up by the Seven Stars pilots and the Gjallarhorn grunts who fought with them.

>>15390740
vidar was fucking perfect as the tacticool design for a gundam frame

also helps that kimaris purple eyes made its face look intimidating

Bael is basically Reginlaze Julia with added performance and symbolic weight.

An extremely fast, melee focused suit. Agnika himself didn't seem to want or need anything more.

>>15390744
I would be on board with this analogy, except Bael has 0.1% of Strike Freedom's arsenal.

>>15390797
For a Gundam packing only two swords and head vulcans, I'd say it was punching above its weight dueling KV, and gave as good as it got despite that.

The way I see it, Bael's value was more its symbolic value than its combat capability...which is still really good, just not more powerful than the other Gundam types really.

McGillis basically gambled on Baels' symbolic strength and the political and social shockwaves of him piloting the Gundam piloted by the Hero of the war. It was a gamble that lost, cause like Rustal said: McGillis is a hypocrite for attempting to reshape the status quo but still rely upon gjallarhorn's mythos

Also, they're obviously teasing something with mad scientist woman who obviously knows way too much for a throwaway character leaving Bael back in its resting place with a mischievous smile.

I bet it's not the last we've seen of Bael.

>>15390499
Turns out it was just for show.

>>15391418
Problem is McGillis not good as Agnika Kaieru Not because Bael.

don't forget that Agnika Kaieru/Bael fight a lot of MA (who strong than normal MS) and end Calamiy War.

>>15391485

Of course but my point is that I think McGillis didn't want Bael for its battle prowess as much as for its symbolic status. Remember, this is a guy that for all his scheming...is essentially trying to live a fairy tale. Rustal summed him up perfectly as someone who "never grew up".

He expected to take control of Bael and have everyone get so wow'd by the spectacle of him piloting it that they'd just give him the planet. It's entirely possible he overestimated both his own abilities and the abilities of the Bael out of sheer arrogance too, but I think he wanted it more to become a symbol cause that's how his weird mind worked.

It does make me wonder though what the Bael could be capable of with a pilot meant to take it to its potential.

>>15391514
With thrusters that size, I expect it could dodge most things that weren't Dainsleifs.

>>15391418
>IBO is now a new franchise timeline where beam weapons are no good
>Bael is the recurring suit that rises every few centuries with fewer and fewer surviving Ars Goetia suits each time it does
I want it now.

>>15391514
>It does make me wonder though what the Bael could be capable of with a pilot meant to take it to its potential.
Macky took out several ships' worth of suits and ships using a pair of swords and remained mostly intact after a beastly throwdown with a superior suit and two-ish AV connected pilots. I know people detract the swords for breaking but did take a lot of punishment even before going up against Gali Gali so I don't see how much more potential Bael would have beyond what we saw.

>>15391418

Mad scientist woman removed the cockpit unit and put locks on its limbs so that it can never be used again. It was a not so subtle way of saying that the Gundams belonged in the old world, along with the mobile armors and all the other crazy murderous tech they had used back then, there's no need for them in the current era anymore.

>>15391514

Bael was pretty much the personification of McGillis' belief that personal power is the only thing that you should rely on. Remember Bael's loadout? It was only equipped with a pair of swords and some vulcans. As in, the pilot only had the most basic of equipments and actually needed to rely on only his piloting skills in order to survive. This is in direct contrast to Kimaris-Vidar, which was basically pimped out with a bunch of optional equipment and a handicap easy-mode auto-pilot support unit.

>>15391736

If Mikazuki is any indication, McGillis wasn't piloting Bael at Agnika Kael levels of AV system output yet. Agnika himself was mentioned to have liked fighting MAs using only Bael's bare hands. Full output Bael was probably on par or even better than Barbatos during its fight with Hashmal.

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>>15391907
>Remember Bael's loadout? It was only equipped with a pair of swords and some vulcans.
It has wing-mounted cannons.

>>15391950

Yea, they did jack shit though. Kimaris-Vidar had a pair of Dainsleif launchers in its lance, let that sink in for a moment.

>>15391032

The Graze Ritter, Gastima and Mazraster were crud, though.

Did you not see how little they did?

>>15391966
The Gastima is a monster. It's like the love child of Epyon and Penelope, armed to the teeth and able to body anything not from Venus Globe in the series.

Mazraster was kind of eh, but it could still reasonably beat down most MS in Gundam by sheer tech superiority.

IBO tech is outright primitive next to G-Reco, they're not even in the same league.

>>15390499
>Why did McGillis/Tekkadan ever think they could win with just this?

Blind fanboyism.

>>15391957
But those launchers are useless in a close combat. Swords are the best weapons in this universe.

>>15391719
beam it work when your wreck enough ms armor.

Has it ever been confirmed if Agnika and the other Gundam pilots received the Ain treatment and were just torsos inside a water tank? or did they have a more advanced version of AV that lets them get full control and still retain their human bodies?

>>15391991
IBO has that sweet NO BEAMS ALLOWED coating/armour, which means it fucks most non-CE suits raw

>>15391991

>Able to body anything

And yet the only standout moments it has are it getting the shit kicked out of it by both the G-Self and the Dahack.

Truly, a monster worthy of rememberance.

>>15392085
Mackie said that Ein's version was the true version of allaua vijana.

>>15390740
is like they dont want the model kits money anymore

>>15390726
>>15390763
I really wish Bael did more. I hoped for an Ahab wing gimmick or something
>>15391907
>Bael locked up
She's giving a shit eating grin because she knows it will happen again.
The bitch was knew people were "giving up their humanity to take on the demons". She probably helped facilitate it maybe doing work on Ein Mackey and Gali, how many AV experts could they have.
She's like the devil you make a deal with to control a demon.

>>15392085
I don't think they got the Ein treatment. Agnika and his Gundam buddies founded Gjallarhorn and became its first leaders, it'd be hard to do that if they were just torsos in a tank.

Like many aspiring fascists McGillis believed in weird fairytale occultism bullshit

>>15391991
G-Reco and IBO are both utterly awful series, their tech bullshit doesn't make it any better.

did they ever give a reason for why none of the suits have no armor over the abdomen region

>>15392658
frame material is strongest in this timeline apart from grimgerde swords. Torso region also closest to dual ahab reactor setup benefitting from the ahab particles that give it even more protection.

It comes down to theres no point to arm the torso, its the only part going to survive since the ahab reactor literally cannot be destroyed.

>>15392658
It's dumb? The only one is Man Rodi and that things a fatass. Waist armor does nothing but cut your flexibility in half.

>>15392675
>the ahab particles that give it even more protection
???

>>15392658
Because it looks cool

>>15390499
Bael is just for symbolic purposes; while it has it's speed and the "unbreakable" swords, Bael is just pretty basic and its weapons are 300 years old already.

Considering the strain the sword sustained during previous battles, we can say that the swords are pretty much durable.

McGillis expected that the people will obey him once he get it because it represents Agnika, who became deified after the calamity war. He mocked people for being forgetful about history and forgetting that you need to have an AV to operate this mobile suit. But he himself is also a fool for forgetting the fact that people will only obey the Bael's "chosen one" if he/she appears in time of mobile armors wreaking havoc in the world.

Last Falg event:
>Orga VA: What was Agnika Kaieru like?
>Ogawa: He's like a hero in a shonen manga - very charismatic, is there to save his friends, etc.
MacGills a SHONENFAGGOT!

>>15392725
But McGillis is "I trust nobody' and " friends are for pussy" guy.

Either McGillis totally misinterpret Agnika's character or that biography is total bullshit.

>>15392740
ep49 Macky told Gali if he trusted his friends he would waver, that's why he needed them out of the picture.

>>15392679
Not him but Nanolaminate has something to do with ahab reactors IIRC

>>15392109
I think the setting guide thing said Ein's AV is actually a result of the constant research Gjallarhorn was doing in secret. It's "true" AV in the sense that it's on par with the original AV systems used during the calamity war, while CGS's AV surgery is basically a bootleg shitshow that has higher risk than it should. Also, AV was originally designed for space work IIRC. There's a thread on animesuki somewhere

>>15392801
But that's literally the opposite of what Agnika would've done. If Macky wanted to follow in Agnika's footsteps he would've told Gaelio and Carta to follow him.

I dunno, there's a part of me that wants to think that Agnika was nothing like the pomp and pretense that gjallarhorn's later generations exhibited. Like, I love to think he was actually all rough, unsophisticated and all of that. But I'm always a sucker for that sort of revisionist history stuff in stories. Or situations where they sugar coat a person's actual personality or mannerisms in the future

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McGillis you fuck. it was only a legend. he was the first Gundam to be produced. only had two sword. and that was it.
Meanwhile Agnika Kaieru was one helluva pilot.
not only did you couldn't even kill your garma. You got killed by him. fuck you, man. fuck you

>>15392856
It's like if Amuro had the Rx 78-2 become a legend and his family worshipped because he single handedly won the war.

Bael is the RX 78-2 of the IBO universe whereas the final few gundams are around Nu Gundam levels of specialisation.

>>15392925
>It's like if Amuro had the Rx 78-2 become a legend and his family worshipped because he single handedly won the war.

So...Gundam 00?

>>15392950

Imagine if Ribbon's entire plan was to use the 0 Gundam to scare the A-laws into surrendering and for all of CB to follow him because he had 0 Gundam.

That would be what McGillis's plan was.

>>15392950
Setsuna is the only one who worshipped 0 Gundam though.

>>15392966

It was still worshipped though!

Even one person is still worship.

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>>15390499
>>Gusion's got 4 arms for additional slicing/dicing with his God Hand nippers

>>15390708
Kimaris had the type E system, which had no limiters.

They were on par if not better than Mika in his MA fight.

>>15390734
If anything having Marida pilot the Kshatriya made it even more popular

>>15392998
I think the whole fading faster then sight Vidar after he shouted "Ein!" was to illustrate that it was as good as No Limits Barbie with out the Vegetable Mini Max

>>15390785

Goes back and fourth.

Suls everyone forgets: Best Greatswords and Ultra Greatswords. But then dual Kats. Blueblood is luck. Still mostly STR.

Suls 1 Dex ruled with an iron fist. Falchion, the longer spears, Great Scythe, Katanas, Rapiers.

Suls 2: Pretty equal though I think STR weapons edge out thanks to Polearms, Greatswords, THE Great Sword, but mostly equal.

Born of Blood: Again pretty equal, since STR has Whirlygig, spiked mace, and some other things, and Arcane has the best Moonlight, but Dex might edge out thanks to broken ass Rakuyo, Saif, Mercy Blades, Chikage.

Suls 3: Dual Fucking Ultra Greatswords. Exile Greatswords. Giant Halberds. Giant Axes. Just big guaranteed damage shit to kill the shitty meta as quickly as possible.

Sorry I know no one asked but I'm mildly venting.

>>15392740
The whole conflict would have been avoided if either McGillis or Rustal voiced their thoughts.

Its part of what I hated about IBO, all they said was ideals and were extremely vague on what they actually were.

>>15390726
>AV system
>funnels

Washio said he regretted not adding more weapons/gimmicks to Bael

>>15390499
Mobile suits in IBO are just not very threatening.

>>15393245
IBO is terrible, everything to do with its designs and the retarded tech they slap onto them. Somehow its even dumber than the Celestial Being suits that in the end were still just gundams like any other series but more advanced.

>>15393214
He's a retard then because then Barbatos would be the worst Gundam.

The form 4 literally has nothing compared to even Bael. What the fuck were they thinking?

>>15393285
Think of it this way: Bael's the first gundam and Barbatos is the eighth. We don't know much about Barbatos's original loadout asides from the gauntlet it had for the first two forms, so maybe Barbatos was a punchy Gundam at one point.

>>15393329
You mean the blue buckler? Pretty sure that's just some junk they had laying around. Form 4 is supposed to be a replica but they didn't bother keeping the buckler even though they swapped it out for that spike thing, so they probably had it in storage.

>>15392089
The 00 universe also still fucks around with physical weapons, theyd probably do okay.

>>15392089
People forget that by late Universal Century, most MS had anti-beam coating, which was why during F91 you saw ballistics still being used and why the den'an and the other MS used by Cosmo Babylon were using regular lances instead of beam sabers.

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I have to think Bael wouldve done better if Chocolate wouldve postponed his rebellion for a while and had Bael upgraded. Rustal had no intention of fighting on Earth and Macky had loyal mechanics who wouldve been willing to modernize it.

I wouldn't be surprised if Dantalion outclasses Astaroth and Kimaris and definitely Vual

GUYS GUYS GUYS
I FIGURED IT OUT
BAEL CAN GET TO ORBIT BY ITSELF
ITS POWER IS FLIGHT

>>15390499

300 year old weapons are only as good as they are 300 years ago.

Every other Gundam Frame in IBO, as you've listed, got modern equipment and weapon upgrades.

>>15390523

For all the good that did it :/

>>15395941
It doesn't have gliders like original Astaroth

>>15393344
Mika was constantly going through gear like it was nothing though, and as a result they kept upgrading barby to his preference.

Mika liked going full offence with weapons that would do lethal damage no matter what ergo his various maces and Club Sword. He also had a preference for built in weaponry that he couldn't loose hold of which likely led to the lupus rex

>>15395941
So can Vidar

>>15395949
Considering how basic Bael was, it did very well against a fully pimped out Kimaris.

>>15392816
That's the point, Macky completly misunderstood both Micka and Agnika. He though power was the only thing those two had for themselves wheras in truth they also had friends who they could fully trust.

Jesus christ, IBO isn't even complex. I'm begining to think the whole "found the retard" meme was justified.

>>15391013
This..
It's not that the Gundam piloted by women does not sell, it's more like that they often have an inferior design than the ones with male leads.

>>15391013
>Reginlaze is a step in the right direction.
>jobbing suit getting beat down 24/7, never won a legit fight

>>15392966
>>15392977
Yeah but he didn't worship the actual suit, just the concept of Gundam. S1 Setsuna would have called McGillis an idiot.

>>15395899
Macky wouldn't upgrade Bael, he'd see it as trampling on Agnika's memory or something.

He didn't have time to do much either after finding out that Gaileo was still alive and ready to fuck up his plan, he had to rush through everything.

>>15390499
>300 year old swords that break at the slightest tap.
He used the same sword on a lot of mobile suits, blocked shots with it and pretty much used it on every battle without replacing and maintaining it before it broke.
Those swords are tough.

>>15392089
Give me 20 good Dom's and I'll take the gundam's out.

>>15396626
These are apparently the original Bael's swords, instead of the Grimgerde swords.

>>15392725
Calamity war OVA when?

>>15396631
Julietta still lost her entire squad of Reginlazes in the space battle against Mika. She also lost quite a few Graze Schilds when reinforcing Iok's and Mars Branch units

>>15396654
Pretty sure that that was I was implying. But yeah, point still stands, that he used the swords a lot of times without maintenance or replacement.

>>15396662
Calamity war OVA is just as likely as Black History OVA from Age

It's such a good opportunity but they'll just waste it like last time

>>15396715
CW ova.
Barbatos Origin piloted by a girl.

>>15391719
If we can only move up from here I'm totally down for that.

>>15396670
But it's a Graze, not a Dom, most things are better than a Graze.