Mobile Suit Gundam: Char's Counterattack

>>15380006
Because judging from the interviews, it seems that Tomino wanted MSG to be a complete series and not make any sequels.

>>15380006
A lot of people on /m/ literally can't understand how Char could become an antagonist again. And they hate Quess.

CCA is god tier.

>>15380012
Sure, but CCA actually uses some of the ideas he originally intended to include in 0079. Like Char taking control of Zeon and the White Base having to defeat him.

CCA is part of the holy trifecta of /m/ Gundam trolling. Diss this 0083 or 08th MS Team and you get guaranteed replies.

>>15380027
I really wish that had happened in the original. I wonder if he would have had Amuro and Sayla end up together like they did in the novel. Or have Amuro die at the end.

>>15380012
Why would that matter? That's like saying MGS 2 is terrible because the first one was supposed to be standalone

>>15380093
>That's like saying MGS 2 is terrible because
>is terrible
I never said it was it was terrible. It's just one of the reasons why people on here don't like it. I have no problems with it honestly.

>>15380006
Because it's pacing is pure garbage and every new character is under developed despite hogging screen time. They're all beyond annoying too.

Pretty animation and good music can only get you so far.

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>>15380006
>Why do we hate it?
AAAAAMMAARRROUUUUUUUU! UGGGGHHHH!

It's bad
I HATE IT

>>15380027

Where did you get that he originally intended that to happen in.0079, because I've never seen that before. Just that brief outline about Char realising that his fixation on Amuro allowed Gihren to become King of Space so helps the White Base crew infiltrate Axis.

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>>15380006
I love CCA.

Millenials seem to hate anything older than 1995.

I'm glad I'm Generation X. We may have been known as slackers, but at least we didn't jump on blogs and whine about everything.

also, Reegeez is love.

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maybe the greatest Zeon MS design evar

>>15380049
There's no quess or Nina purpleton in 8th ms tho

T B H Char and Amuro's rivalry is stupid. It was great in 0079, but didn't need to be dragged on past that. But despite that, it still could've been good, had the movie not been bogged down with a slew of new characters who were all absolutely shit.

Still, I'm grateful it exists so that Char and Amuro's bullshit didn't get shoehorned into ZZ.

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>>15380330

While my personal bias has me leaning more towards the Qubeley, and Zeta's overall art direction, I must admit that Izubuchi's art style is pretty much a perfect match for the Zeon aesthetic.

>>15380135
What a cunt
>unforgivable
>irredeemable

>>15380006
It needed another movie to properly flesh out it's story.

>>15380202
>also, Reegeez is love.
>Rigazi
This I don't know why but I love this suit, probably because of the opening with Amuro holding his own against both Char and Gyunei (and even blasting a bit of that fool) and looking good as ever.
This while I kinda disliked the Zeta...

>>15380339
Instead, we get a hamfisted romeo and juliet plot.

>>15380012
That's what the novels are for.

>>15380006
>>15380012
Could it be that you two know what you are talking about?
CCA is a masterpiece. My favorite Tomino. His writing is something else as it is but CCA still excels in term of complexity and presentation. All other Chinese cartoons look childish in comparison.
I'm so sorry it's considered to be the domain of autistic manchildren with appallingly simplistic ideas on morality and how human psychology works.

I loved CCA for all the reasons you listed, OP.
I still don't understand how some people can hate the movie just because they found Quess or Hathaway unlikable.

>>15380006

Gundam was only 9 years old as a franchise by the time Char's Counterattack was released. That's hardly long running.

I'd also argue the perfect part personally, since I think 0079 already had a rather appropriate and satisfying end to their rivalry, and that Zeta was the better cap to their rivalry if it needed more - with both of them starting to move on with their lives but disaffected by their experience and able to work together without really bring friends because neither can quite forget the past. It's a more interesting and relatable end to their rivalry to me.

>>15380135
>decided to watch CCA because I heard it's pretty good
>that bitch just shows up out of nowhere
>"she must be interesting" I think to myself
>bites her parents
>literally defects to Char for no fucking reason at all
>tries to cuck Char, and Bright's son at the same time
>becomes a Mary Sue newtype who's suddenly the best pilot Neo-Zeon has to offer after trying to cuck a cyber-newtype by piloting his Mobile Suit
>screams and cries until she gets what she wants
>gets damaged in her very first fight
>pilots the best prototype Zeon has made up until that point.
>controls a fuckload of funnels, and uses them to fuck anything up
>tries to get back at Amuro for ""abandoning"" her, but fucking jobs horribly against a damaged mobile suit and dies
>provides no benefit to Char and Neo-Zeon as a whole
>goes down in history as one of the most worthless characters in Gundam
Holy fuck this movie was unbearable to watch with this little shit in it

Beltorchika's Children is the better version of CCA.

>>15380776
In what way?

>>15380012
Tomino never liked sequels in the first place. That's one of the reasons he had a habit of killing of the entire main cast in his show (the other reason being his depression). His logic was that if he killed off all the characters then he wouldn't have to make a sequel if the show got popular.

>>15380774
>parents
Her only parent is her father. That woman near him is mistress.

>>15380006
Pacing is awful. They tried to cram a series into a movie This was the problem with F91 as well . If CCA had been a series, or even an OVA, it would have been much better.

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Reminder that CCA and F91 were ruined by ((((Bandai))))

>>15380006

I only have only major problem.

I really dislike Quess and Hathaway. This movie should've been entirely about Amuro and Char, let us get into their heads, and build up to the final clash. You don't really need Quess's pointless plot and Hathaway's rather peripheral presence.

>>15381114

Reminder that that isn't actually true, has never been suggested to be, has no real evidence it is true and is just paranoid "it's always the big companies fault, never the creator" theory most likely.

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>>15381121

>>15381129

You know, oddly enough, I think it helped the movie. F91 would've been rather less exciting as a series, especially since they wouldn't have been able to keep up the animation.

The main draw was how the F91 had a really sexy design, the final battle, and the animation.

>>15381129

Wait, are you actually using a wiki as a source? There was an interview posted a few weeks ago that Zeonic translated part of and the staff working on F91 never knew whether they were earning on a TV show or movie. It was Sunrise that decided it's fate as well, not Bandai. I'm not even sure Bandai owned them at that point.

>>15380006
It was too boring to be a classic, at least it was better than 0080.

>we hate it

I like it

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>>15380511
>This while I kinda disliked the Zeta...
>Preferring the bootleg to the original

Please do explain yourself.

>>15380093
>standalone
What are metal gear 1 and 2

>>15381282
Not him but I also prefer it
I like the sleeker and more streamlined look

Quess and Hathaway

>>15381121

t. Bandai Shill

>shut it down!

>>15381354

Fair enough I suppose. But if you're a Feddiefag, wouldn't sharper/blockier designs be something you're more accustomed to?

>>15381282
>Please do explain yourself
I really can't... To be honest, I don't exactly "dislike" the Zeta, it's just a bit meh to me (though I ended liking it more during ZZ than during Zeta, I thought having it as a specialized speedster alongside the bulky ZZ was a good thing, it made a good duo). Why I like the Rigazi? the head is a bit better I guess, the weaponry looks better too (I didn't liked the rifles of the Zeta), I thought that the transforming part of the Zeta was a bit too cheesy and I was bored of it at the end, this plus the retracted wings don't look good imho, so the backpack I think is better (what would be noice may have been a psycommu controlled backpack ala Justice). Overall, I wanted to like the Zeta but couldn't, then I did it with the Rigazi.

At first I thought it was because Amuro is super-baller and fun to watch in the Rigazi, holding his own against Char and Gyunei, but it's not really that because I really liked Kamille and Roux (him more than her though - now try to guess which is whice), so it's not even a pilot thing.

I guess you don't always know why you fall in love but the Rigazi is definitely one of my favorite suit of the entire franchise...

>>15382196
>>15381282
Oh and now there's one thing clear I realize re-watching both designs, I'll fite anyone over it if need be but I think that Zeta's shield is absolute dogshit, it's disgusting and stupid looking, while the Rigazi's shield, which is closer to the MkII really, is perfectly fine. I'm really not a shield lover but the one of the MkII is fine.

Finally a thread actually praising CCA

I love you OP

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>>15380886
>Hi-Nu and Nightingale
>No Chan
>Hathaway taking down Quess like a boss (this also leads to Hathway becoming the GOAT known as Mafty)
>Psyco Geara Doga (picture)

>all the replies posted during /the merge/ were deleted

>>15380006
probably because that pointless green girl.

>>15384353
The Nightingale is fucking awful
It just a shitty fat Sazabi
At least the Hi-Nu was different looking

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>>15384498
your sense of scale is shit.

>>15380774
Pretty much nailed it. Plus Chan gets shot down for no good reason.

>>15382196
Why do people here insist on saying "Rigazi" instead of "Re-GZ"?

>>15380006
it took me 2 times to watch it because i feel asleep the first time (my fault) but the second time the final battle just drug on a little too long

>>15380006
>>15384716
also i have 0 idea how Char suddenly decided to be a bad guy again

>>15384600
To get people like you talking.
More seriously, the person I was responding to had written "Reegeez" so I wrote it Rigazi as it's how RGZ is pronounced in the movie and then I stuck with it for no particular reasons.

>>15380006

Does it explain in detail the events that broke Char?

Or was that something that occurred in Zeta?

By the time of CCA, the so called Red Comet seems like a mad shell of his former self.

>>15388515
As always, the video games will fill in the blanks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQMz7YHPIiI

>>15388597

As always, the blank filling is rather pointless fanwank by fans well after the fact and can be mostly ignored. There's nothing in the movie that suggests it was because of Kamille. Nor does it really make any sense given that he left before he could find out what happened to Kamille anyway.

>Char goes from fighting beside Earth-based rebels against the federation to wanting to drop an asteroid on the whole planet
>no real attempt to justify this plot-wise

The Char vs. Amuro fights were cool but I can't accept the plot. They turned a complex antagonist in 0079 (and protagonist in Zeta) into a xenocidal maniac and it's hard to understand his transformation except as a reason to make him fight Amuro again.

>>15389258
The AEUG wanted everyone off earth so it could restore itself to its natural balance. Char wanted to crash an asteroid into earth to induce an ice age that would drive people from earth for a long enough time so that by the time it normalized they wouldn't want to go back, because they'd be all over space. This was addressed in the movie.

>>15380006
foreigner

>>15380006
>Deconstruction of the archetypical antagonist.
>Basically just a brainless guy who wants to crash something huge on Earth.

>>15380564
>I'm so sorry it's considered to be the domain of autistic manchildren with appallingly simplistic ideas on morality and how human psychology works.
Damn nigga, you are watching children cartoon don't start to talk about "morality" and "human psychology", especially since there is like 3 lines about that.
Go read an actual book my friend.
>>15380006
I didn't like it at first. I remember hating Quattro being gone, not understand the whole magical T thing, that I thought was coming straight from Tomino's ass, most of the cast being annoying, Tomino's writing and yet an other fucking Zeon. But with years, I've started to appreciate it. I mean, I thought the whole T thing was dumb but when I look back to 79, I thought the trippy space psychic thing was cool, so why wouldn't it be in CCA? The music was good, Amuro literally died for all of Earth and earthlings so that's pretty badass. The mechs looked cool, the music was cool. I guess I still have a hard time wrapping my mind about why the fuck would Spacenoids still follow any Zeonic movement after failing twice before and bringing so much death but whatever.
>>15389391.
>The AEUG wanted everyone off earth so it could restore itself to its natural balance.
Not the guy you replied too but I honestly don't remember any mention of the AEUG in CCA or this being said in Zeta but then again, I had a hard time following what happened because of the pacing and dialogue.

>>15389258
>Char goes from fighting against the federation to fighting agains the federation
Gee, I wonder.

>>15389258
>they turned a complex antagonist in 0079 into a xenocidal maniac
Watch the part of the movie where he talks to Sayla.

>>15388515

If you watched Zeta and ZZ you get that humanity was not moving in the direction that Char wanted it too, and he explicitly mentioned this in CCA. He got impatient and fed up, and decided to do things supervillain style, since the AEUG's more moderate methods to achieve his goals were a failure.

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Not gonna lie, former Char Supporter here. This is fucking hilarious watching him crash and burn. But in all seriousness, we can't let him get his hands on the Amber Alert codes.

>>15389391
>The AEUG wanted everyone off earth so it could restore itself to its natural balance.
>Char wanted to crash an asteroid into earth to induce an ice age.
They wanted the same thing. Char just didn't think the way they wanted to do it was going to work.

>>15389181

As a New Type, couldn't he have sensed what had happened to Kamille without having seen it directly if he was in the general area?

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>>15393327
Can we just stop discussion this silly topic?
If he wanted to he could have learned about it in a thousand ways. Why should this particular detail matter?
Assuming that Kamille was the one and only specific reason is stupid but thinking that all of Char's close relationships ending up badly didn't have a major influence on his outlook and the decisions that stemmed from it is even more stupid.

>>15393327

He could, but (a) not showing or even implying it is bad form and (b) if he did then his newtype senses gave him some both accurate enough info to know something had happened to Kamille and inaccurate enough information to tell him Kamille is either dead or irrevocably hurt. Which he wasn't. A few days later he's psychically lucid, and within a few weeks he's speaking as well as moving around. An level of inaccuracy newtype senses have never really been implied to grant, given that the entire point of said newtype senses is that they allow someone a deeper and more accurate understanding.

If Char had detected that and actually cared about Kamille enough to change his life plans based on him being hurt you'd also imagine he'd do something besides immediately leave without ever checking in on Kamille again as far as we know.

It's more likely that Char is just incredibly impatient and doesn't trust A.E.U.G.s methods to work. That and Tomino changing his plans mid production to account for a film that wasn't originally included when he wrote Char disappearing.

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I liked CCA but am I the only one that thought DYRL was the better movie?

>God-tier animation
DYRL looked better and it came out 4 years before CCA.
>Amazing score
I felt DYRL had more memorable scores not including the pop music.
>Endlessly quotable
That's subjective I guess, I can't really quote this movie though.
>Char's post-post-modernist deconstruction of the archetypical antagonist
I guess.
>The culmination of Amuro and Char's rivalry
It kept getting pushed to the side in favor of Quess and Hathaway though. DYRL doesn't have a rivalry focus but the fight between Max and Milia is amazingly good.

One last note, CCA doesn't have a best girl or even a decent girl. DYRL has Misa.

>>15380006

If it didn't have Quess in the movie ruining everything it'd be a pretty great movie. Unfortunately Tomino could not resist letting his utter disrespect and contempt of women flood into the project lowering the general IQ of things down to child autist fanfiction levels as usual.

>>15393546

Why would you compare the DYRL movie to CCA? Apples and oranges.

>>15393569
Because they're both big budget movies of two different mecha anime franchises. I was just surprised to learn CCA came way after DYRL.

>>15393581

There are other big budget movies of other mecha anime franchises though?

I still don't get the comparison, it seems really out of place.

>>15393587
Is it though? Each are big budget first timers on the big screen. I could make another comparison but whatever. I just wanted to make this one since I didn't enjoy CCA as much as DYRL and people hyped me up for that shit when I started Gundam.

>>15393605

Tomatoes potatoes, anon. Go watch more anime.

>>15393393
>to change his life plans based on him being hurt
Of course he didn't change his life plans just because of this. It's clear from the start of theseries that his interests didn't completely coincide with those of the AEUG and if he ever felt he could really cooperate with them he starts backtracking hard about halfway through and everything goes downhill from there.
CCA stands on it's own and provides all of the information you need to understand it within itself but if after watching it you feel for whatever personal reasons of yours the need for any further explanation, all of it is right here in the latter half of Zeta. There is no need for a Zeta montage, of direct references to it, of heavy-handed exposition in the middle of CCA in order to understand how both relate to each other.

>>15393645

Actually, there is. Because you don't need to account for Kamille at all to explain his actions. Char's Counterattack provides context and reason enough on it's own, so if one is to believe anything to do with Kamille is even partly motivation then the film must provide some kind of clue. It doesn't have to be a montages or heavy handed (because exposition cam be light and feel natural), but it has to be something.

>>15380135
THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>15380774
gah i hate this fucking movie so much

nu-gundam nu-male nu-type

I love it too, why would the perceived common consensus of about twelve people mean much to somebody's enjoyment of a film

>>15393662
What? The movie doesn't even reference his own sister and you don't need to know about her to understand the way he feels but if you watch CCA after MSG and Zeta will you conclude that their estrangement has nothing to do with it since it isn't directly referenced?

>>15393693

Test, because again said estrangement is entirely unnecessary to explain his actions. Frankly, given how he treats her between all the entries there's no impression he even misses her or feels that distance is notable. He doesn't try to find or interact with her in Zeta,ZZ or CCA. I can't even recall him doing so in 0079 - I'm pretty sure their meetings were by happenstance rather than design.

>>15393710

> Test

Yes even.

>>15380006
I like how you can watch 0079, completely skip Zeta and ZZ and still understand everything in Char's Counterattack.

It's like, what the fuck is the point?

>>15393710
>because again said estrangement is entirely unnecessary to explain his actions
You don't need to know about it to understand the way he feels. Still if you are curious about what exactly caused him to feel the way he does it is a piece of useful information.
>given how he treats her between all the entries there's no impression he even misses her or feels that distance is notable
But that is completely wrong.
>he doesn't try to find or interact with her in Zeta,ZZ or CCA.
And I assume you based your above statement on this fact? It's a fairly realistic behavior pattern in broken families that is mostly the result of shame and self-hatred though it's probably a good thing that you are not aware of that. Or is it?

>>15393730

> completely wrong

Prove it.

> reality works this way, therefor a fictional character was written to mimic or can only be explained by the same behaviour

Char wasn't shaped by an actual childhood anon, he was shaped by a writer. And production decisions or circumstances. Including that Sayla wasn't in the other productions for some reason (yes, I'm aware if the commonly cited safari trip - which I doubt lasted multiple years). He didn't think of or try to find her, which is a deliberate decision by the writers. And his character reflects that. If he was ashamed them he never showed it.

>>15393745
>he was shaped by a writer.
He was shaped by a good writer.
>If he was ashamed them he never showed it
The person who said "People have the heart to feel shame."?

>>15393753

Whether or not Tomino (or any of the other writers) was good is not proof that they wanted him to reflect reality in that particular manner. Nor is him mentioning the word "shame" synonymous with "this must be, at least partially, in reference to my estranged sister".

>>15380006
>discarded continuity
>characters replaced by literal who copies
>rehash of Zeta/ZZ
>nonsensical characterization
>everything is half developed, nothing is satisfying
>pointless focus on pointless characters
>feature length toy commercial
>shitty spirit bomb super robot ending
It's a trash movie.

>>15393761
Now you are just being stubborn. In the first place if you are trying to imply that there is no indication he cares about her at all I honestly find that statement quite bewildering. Do you have some sort of positive evidence for it?
Further, the realistic portrayal of how human psychology functions is the main draw of Tomino's writing. When I'm saying that Char's behavior is realistic do you think I am making shit up? It might actually not be something that is easy to explain so I don't expect you to accept it but can't you at least give me the benefit of doubt?

>Nor is him mentioning the word "shame" synonymous with "this must be, at least partially, in reference to my estranged sister".
Of course not. The phrase is much more abstract than that.

>>15393995

I don't need to provide evidence when the statement is that there's no evidence to support something. Since you can't prove a lack of something beyond it's non-existence. If you want to say that he does feel that separation though then you must, because you're making a claim. And when people say that Tomino's writing is realistic I accept it because the stuff that's actually there on screen is realistic by itself and doesn't need assumption of hidden factors that are never alluded to to become realistic. You can think them if you want, no-one stopping you - but trying to cast other people as being wrong because they don't accept your version of events when you have no proof to back it up beyond "well it's realistic that it'd be this way, so it must be" isn't just giving the benefit of the doubt.

And frankly, I find the idea that a good writer will leave something entirely unsaid and for the consumer to interpret with no indication of meaning or existence kind of annoying too. A good writer can be good without making a character 50 layers deep, but a good writer can also include indications of a character's thoughts and feeling if they want to create a character of layers. Assuming something must existence despite lack of evidence and then calling it good writing seems almost the opposite to me. If anything, it's head-canon.

>>15393546

What people don't understand is that the Quess and Hathaway plot point is required to show how Char and Amuro were never able to become proper mentor figures who could guide the new generation, and instead we Char getting bogged down in the rivalry of his youth, and Amuro neither or them actually ever getting over what happened with Lalah, leaving Amuro cold and Char unable to really let others in ( other than Amuro, ironically).

It also plays on the main theme of Tomino's original UC saga: humans always make the same mistake, progress (newtypes - in their philosophical sense) is illusory, the same tragedies will always repeat themselves - the best we can do is hope for a miracle (Axis Shock). But newtype girls will always die, people will always throw giant shit at earth, and 14 year olds will always be dumb.

DYRL did indeed look better than CCA. But DYRL looks better than everything else, so that is a bit of a high bar to compare it by. Though it isn't really the animation as much as it is the art, especially those highly detailed shots of the Macross.

DYRL has an issue with character development that CCA does'nt, mainly that Hikaru is first with Minmey, she supposedly dies, and then he is very quickly with Misa and chooses her in the end for no real reason. It follows what happened in the series, but lacks the strong motivation that the series gave us for Hikaru to make the choice he did because of time constraints.

CCA does'nt really have a problem like that. Char, Amuro, Quess, and Hathaway all do what they do in a way that makes sense given their personalities and motivations.

I also disagree on the score front. The combat music in CCA is as good if not better than DYRL's rendition of dog fight and the theme song.

>>15393851
Can you justify some of these points ? I'm not seeing most of this.

>>15394474

I think it's pretty important to note that while Char never got over Lalah, Amuro was at least trying to. First with Beltorchika, and then with Chan. And that it was only after Lalah appeared to him in his dreams to tell him that Char was a good guy deep down that he really got cold with her. And more obviously that while Char completely missed what Quess was looking for and just decided to use her for his own end since she was fawning on him anyways, Amuro at least recognised what she really wanted and just decided he couldn't give it to her. Either because he was too busy (hunting Char and Neo Zeon, trying to stop asteroids) or perhaps that he didn't feel himself capable of it.

>>15394526
You are completely failing to take the context into consideration.

>>15393393
I think ZZ would have been better if Sunrise hadn't greenlit CCA and Tomino had brought Char into it and then maybe a CCA OVA later could have told the Second Neo-Zeon War better also.

>>15395877

What context?

Quess and Hathaway just felt like pointless retread of Sarah and Katze, and they were a good portion of the movie.

>>15396163
All of the details that led to these particular developments and everyone's individual situation.

>>15396278

Like what? Am I supposed to give their life story now? That Char was blind to Quess' feelings and self absorbed because he'd spent years being undercover in various ways and guarding his feelings, thoughts etc as a result?

>>15396284
What is your definition of self-absorbed?
And in any case why do you think that noting that is "pretty important"?

>>15396294

The same as the regular definition: someone focusing so much on their own feelings, plans etc. that they fail to see other people's feelings, plans etc. And I thought noting the difference between Amuro and Char was important since the original post made them sound too similar in how they had taken Lalah's death and treated other people.

>>15396775
>someone focusing so much on their own feelings, plans etc. that they fail to see other people's feelings, plans etc.
And this is...bad?
>since the original post made them sound too similar
And this is...bad?

>>15396826

> someone being self-absorbed
> implying this is a good thing
> trying to differentiate different characters actions and reactions
> implying this is a bad thing

>>15396949
>implying this is a good thing
No, it's not a good thing but does it necessarily make a person bad?
>implying this is a bad thing
I don't see why you found it "pretty" "important" to the purpose of the post which was providing an explanation for Quess and Hathaway's role in the movie and which was sufficiently well achieved.

>>15397077

> does it necessarily make a person bad?

No, but then, I never said it did. Only that it was a difference between them.

> I don't see why you found it "pretty" "important"
"I" "don't" "see" "why" "you" "felt" "the" "need" "to" "individually" "emphasize" "those" "words", "but" "I'm" "sure" "you" "had" "a" "reason".

> which was providing an explanation for Quess and Hathaway's roles in the movie and which was sufficiently well achieved

I disagree. Given that one of their major rorles is to reflect how Amuro and Char are perpetuating the same cycles of use that created them, even if not by intention, I think establishing why they perpetuated those cycles in the first place is pretty important.

>>15397107
>establishing why they perpetuated those cycles in the first place is pretty important
Why?

>>15397117

I feel like I'm explaining basic logic here or something. Some people find establishing why something happened as well as that it happened at all important. You apparently don't. Good for you I guess. Not everyone feels the same.

>>15397137
>I feel like I'm explaining basic logic here or something.
I also feel like that sometimes with you. That's why I'm trying to figure out the way you think.
See, communication is not just a tool for exchanging facts but also values and opinions. Communication has a certain goal and this goal more often than not goes beyond the exchange of simple facts. Considering the context of our current discussion it's purpose is sharing our opinions rather than exchanging facts in a purely informative way. Though we could argue if and to what extent the exchange of pure factual information without added value content is actually possible, to me in this particular context simply wanting to exchange facts looks meaningless. What would the goal of the exchange of such particular information be? How can we apply that information in any practical purely objective way to reality?
From here it seems natural for me to deduce that this goal goes beyond the purposes of the immediately useful and is an attempt at exchanging information about values. That is also implied by the use of the word "important" which suggest the investment of some sort of value. I just want to know what that value is?

>>15397240

The value is that establishing that they used others is meaningless to me without establishing why they used them in the first place. And that establishing that Amuro was cold to Chan is meaningless without establishing why he was cold.

You (presumably at least) chided me for posting things without giving them context, but saying Amuro was cold just like Char or that they both used people is the same: information without context. Useless.

>>15397268
OK. That's obvious from the start since you yourself stated it was "important". But why? Why is it valuable to you to make that distinction?

>>15397284

Why do we feel love anon? Why do we feel despair, or joy or hate? You're asking some really existential/psychological questions here in response to a relatively simple answer. I think establishing the context of those decisions is important when discussing them because it's important. I don't know why. No more than most people know why they like ice-cream beyond they like the flavor. Or beyond why most people know they find X good, but couldn't explain why it's good beyond that they derive enjoyment from X in the first place. Why do you feel the need to chase down the exact reasoning of a random stranger's response? I get that you find it important anon, but why? What's the psychological reason that you feel the need for that information before you're satisfied?

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>>15382572

Is that thing what Neo Zeong would be derived from?

Also, what did they ever do with the wreck of the Azieru anyway?

I heard it mentioned the Buch Concern got their hands on it, which raises a number of questions regarding Federation competency.

>>15397301
Emotions are biological processes that activate appropriate survival mechanisms depending on incoming stimuli.
Love securely binds us to a person or group and ensures our mutual symbiotic survival. Hatred is a combination of anger and negative moral judgement that induces aggressive behavior against potential threats which increases the likelihood that we will take action to preempt those threats etc. You get the drift. Feel free to redefine.
The judgement for an appropriate reaction is based on our innate values that can be deduced through analysis of our natural constitution and our acquired values which are formed through unconscious analysis and evaluation of the information coming through the five senses and can be deduced through a conscious replication of said process.
Indeed the question of why you like ice-cream is curious. It's probably some sort of genetic predisposition or a combination of such. My first guess is that food should have nutritive value though for some reason that doesn't actually reflect reality in most cases. Then maybe your love for ice-cream is an evolutionary freak like peacock tails. This is speculation of course. If the question won't give you sleep you can dedicate the rest of your life to finding out the answer. Or google it.
I feel the need to chase down the exact reasoning of a random stranger's response because I suspect that I might morally disapprove of it. I don't like it when something contradicts my personal values. It makes me feel offended. It is not a very pleasant feeling. Thus I feel the need to analyze this opinion to determine if it is indeed threatening for me and then if it indeed is to analyze it further until I can either disprove it or agree with it or in some other way remove the perceived threat to my personal values.

tl;dr "It's important because it's important" is not a valid reasoning. It won't kill you to express a simple opinion.

>>15397713

I already expressed a simple opinion long ago anon. You just continue to dig for the exact psychological reasoning behind it when that reasoning is not something most people know or care about.

>>15397734

Also, there is no mystery behind peacock tails to suggest it's an evolutionary freak. It's simple sexual selection, and that's been the prevailing theory since Darwin himself. There have been tests with fruit flies to find out why sexual selection is a thing and seems more prevalent to producing exotic males over females, so you could call sexual selection a mystery/freak perhaps, but the peacock tail isn't.

>>15397750
What is your definition of an evolutionary freak? Sexual selection is perfectly logical but it often produces stupid results. In this case tails, although advantageous for mating, are quite useless for anything else and frequently actually get in the way. They are pretty impractical. In the same way ice-cream is not very nutritious(or is it?). Well, evolution doesn't always have to make sense.

>>15397734
That it's important because it's important because it's important because it's important?

>>15397783

No, that's not an opinion. That's the reason behind the opinion. My opinion was that having context as to why the characters acted the way they did as well as laying out what they did is important. You're trying to dig as to why it's important. Which isn't an opinion, it's reasoning.

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>>15397796
You're trying too hard to reason with an autist

>>15397796
So your opinion is completely irreducible and is based on your innate sensory perception that important things are important? You have no idea on what basis you distinguish important things from unimportant, nor are you willing to examine and discuss it in any way. You just want to leave your opinion here because you felt like it because you felt like it and the reason for it cannot be deduced and should not be questioned in any way?

>>15397774

> quite useless for anything else and frequently actually get in the way

So what? Evolution doesn't create perfect solutions, it creates ones that are "good enough". Extravagant tails don't have to be useful for anything else, or even innocuous outside attracting a mate because as long as they're useful in attracting a mate and not a dangerous hindrance that causes a majority of male peacocks to no longer reproduce because they're killed by other predators or trip and die in the fall then that's all the criteria necessary to reproduce. Suggesting there needs to be a deeper reasoning behind them that explains why they exist despite being annoying at times betrays a misunderstanding of evolution.

>>15397871

It's not sensory since I'm not using a sense to decide if it's important or unimportant. And I could try and ascertain why something is important, but I don't care that much so why would I? I wanted to add something to the original post since I found that important, but I don't find why I find it important an important piece of information. You do. Good for you. Doesn't mean I'm going to sit and ponder that possibility for your satisfaction.

>>15397890
Dude,why are you even arguing about this?
Wait, you can't answer because you are incapable of introspection. I forgot.

>>15397946

Not being willing to indulge in introspection for someone else is not the same as not being capable. Nor is introspection necessary to understand or explain evolution. I'm answering because you appear to be operating under a flawed understanding of what evolution is and how it works, which I wanted to correct.

>>15397956
I remember saying that evolution doesn't make sense. I don't remember saying that you need introspection to understand it (though it might sort of help sometimes actually). What is it to you what I think about evolution in any case?
You like arguing about pedantic shit but you don't feel the need to argument your "opinions"?

>>15397985

If you have a flawed sense of how evolution works and I can correct it I'd like to, because I think understanding it better would help people, even if only in small ways. Or at least not hinder them. I've already argued my opinion as deeply as I'm willing to. You want to push deeper and argue psychological reasoning through introspection, which I don't and have no interest.

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Between the Char we see in Counterattack and Full Frontal, whose had the more sensible plans?

>>15398137

Sensible? Full Frontal. Char got closer to pulling his off despite it being ridiculous on the face of things, but Frontal's plan to turn the tides through economics was more sensible really.

As annoying as Quess and Hathaway are I think the culmination to their story was good. Between those two and Gyunei we see these characters that fell into the teen angst, idealism and naivety that we saw in characters like young Amuro and Kamille. Amuro rolls out into the fight an absolutely shit cans them. They end up with these quick, unceremonious deaths. I find it to be an interesting juxtaposition of what Amuro was and what he grew up to be.

>>15398206

Doesn't what Full Frontal was proposing reach it's fruition in Turn A?

I've heard it said that Turn A proves Full Frontal right on something concerning Spacenoids.

>>15398435

Not really. Full Frontal wanted to unite the colonies in boycotting Earth, or at least imposing trade sanctions so that the Colonies became the dominant power. In Turn-A the Colonies are not in a power struggle with Earth at all before the beginning of the series and have only had contact of any kind with them once in centuries prior to that point (Dianna's flashback, original Will Game's time). They are more technology advanced, but not because of economics, instead because the Turn-A wiped out technology on Earth for millenia (5,000 to 10,000 years, depending on source).

Full Frontal didn't really have any views on whether Spacenoids were superior or anything, but even if he'd had some kind of view regarding Spacenoids, Turn-A really just shows that people are equal regardless of station or birthplace, so it wouldn't be validating him regardless.

I have seen some people espouse the view that Turn-A and/or G-Reco prove Char right in Earth being the problem, Space being the place and so on, but I don't understand how anyone can think that honestly. Both shows have the Spacenoid factions wanting to return to Earth because living in space is so shitty, and people on Earth living there through disasters that nearly wiped the planet (an ecological one in G-Reco's backstory, nuclear radiation in Turn-As), making Char's plan to induce a nuclear winter and force people off Earth somewhat silly, since they show it doesn't work. People will continue living there regardless basically.

>>15398571
>the Spacenoid factions wanting to return to Earth because living in space is so shitty
But that precisely is the problem. In early UC people almost ruined Earth's ecosystem because no one wants to live in space. Nobody said that living in space was better. Just that somebody has to because there isn't really place for everyone but nobody really has to because it's so shitty, so Spacenoids hate Earthnoids for kicking them off Earth and
taking their land and Earthnoids are like "What the fuck is your problem? We have the right to live wherever we want." and then class pejudices ensue and then war and mass destruction ensue.

>>15398667
*but nobody really wants to

>>15398667

Though, how'd they wind up getting most of Earth's population into space?

I remember reading that most of the Earth Sphere's population was supposedly in space by the time of the One Year War.

>>15397774
ice cream is incredibly nutritious from the perspective of a wild animal. it's extremely calorie dense, which is the primary determinant of how good a food is in the wild. it also has tons of sugar which is what our tastes specifically are for because of herbivore ancestry, and it being a soft mush means it's very easy to eat/digest.

it's just that we value different things in food today than for the entirety of our evolutionary history. there is nothing weird about people liking ice cream.

>>15399121
Resettlement programs, social security benefits, job offers?