What's your favorite Shirow manga?

>>15378647
>What's your favorite Shirow manga?

First 2 volumes of Appleseed. From the third volume onward Shirow made it clear he didn't give a shit about the story.

Appleseed and Dominion.

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>>15378647
Dominion Conflict

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>>15378647

OILY

>>15378647
Apart from Orion and Man Machine Interface, I like all of his mainstream works.

Greaseberries 2

Appleseed.

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>>15378647
Horsecok

>>15378647
Appleseed, Dominion and Orion.

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Any recommendations for other manga artists with similar style and genre?

(pic related is my choice for Shirow)

>>15378647
Appleseed(Over-all). Maybe GitS 1.5(fun+art) best, but that's more like a 2.0 side-story, so I don't know if that counts.
I'm a Sprawl Trilogy fan, so GitS 1 has a place in my heart.
The rest is probably... That mystic feng shui one(fun+actiony), Black Magic, and then GitS 2.0(sorry, just soooo much text+I read all the liner notes).

>>15378647
the one with the strong female lead and the robots

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>>15380237
>Actually liking Black Magic

>>15380427
hey, the part with the M-77 is cool!

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>>15378647
>>15378647
Dominion and Orion, clearly

But Orion does lack robogirls and police brutality

>>15380237
There's obviously Jouji Manabe

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>>15380237
I'd love to see Shirow revisit Black Magic. It has a ton of awesome designs with goofy details, like how he drew mecha arms back then - I'd love to see the M-66 or M-77 redone with his modern design styles.

But instead, there's this thing, whatever it is. Has anyone read this?

>>15380518
I haven't

I've read some of black magic ghost drive but it sucks balls

all those sub-contractor mangakas who draw stuff from his IPs always fall short of the real thing.

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>>15380518
The M-66 looked perfectly fine in the OVA, his contemporary style would be a significant downgrade.

Really the only way to improve the OVA designs would simply be to give M-66 girls a leotard or bikini, and maybe to diversify them like in the appendix.

>>15380427
It was pretty fun and the robot girls were cool

>>15380624
Not as cool as in the OVA!

>>15379409
What is Deunan Nuts pouting about?

Why so many people like Orion? Shirow mixed a lot of philosophical/religious themes with sci-fi, and Orion basically has the worst mix.

>>15380654
Because it was a fast and loose rollercoaster of fun. It's the least philosophically "heavy" of his works. You want a "deep" manga, look at his other works.

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>>15380654
Orion has the best mix, explained in a clumsy way.

Really, it's GitS that has the worst mixture. It starts off as what seems like hard sci-fi, and if you didn't take the side-notes seriously (and who can blame you? they sound really out of place and autistic) the revelation that psychic powers and ghosts and god are real at the end of the manga seems like it comes out of fucking nowhere, and even taking that into account, the sequel is still a confusing mess.

Orion is confusing if you try to understand exactly how and why stuff is happening, but the events themselves are still very clear, the plot is fairly straightforward, the moral of the story is simple and explicit, and the whole thing is cohesive from a worldbuilding standpoint.

Whereas with stuff like GitS, technology and the influence of magic on the world are very inconsistent, and so are the characters' philosophical musings, as well as the way they behave.


Other than that, there's a shitload of things to like about Orion: actually exciting, spectacular action, tons of interesting character designs, a ton of humor, characters with tons of personality, lots of cool monsters, an exotic and very characterful setting, Seska's legs, Seska's butt, Seska's leotard, and Seska's goofy reaction faces.

Really the only thing that prevents it from being his best work is that the taoist physics require way too many explanations to even begin to make sense.

But on the upside, reading Orion will at least make you begin to understand the Puppetmaster's mystical ramblings and how magic stuff works in GitS.

Really, Orion is just a great manga. And if you've grown up reading Jodorowsky, Bilal, Druillet and Moebius's comics, it really won't seem that weird.

>>15380672
Let's just clarify that you're specifically refering to GitS 2.0.

>>15380664
This.
it's just fucking fun as fuck.

>>15380678
No I'm referring to the first manga as well.

It's fairly clear from the get-go that GitS 2.0 is science-fantasy, whereas in GitS, you run the risk of interpreting the fantasy elements on a purely philosophical level and get even more confused as a result, because they're introduced way too late and way too sporadically into the course of the story.

>>15380684
Dude, GitS is literaly Shirow reading Neuromancer and doing his take on it.
You may be thinking too deep on a somewhat shallow story.

>>15380684
To be fair the first chapter does mention that Motoko is kind of superstitious and has premonitions, but the way it's presented (tiny sidenote) makes it seem like it doesn't really matter from a worldbuilding and story standpoint, when it's actually hugely important and explains her final decision to fuse with 2501.

>>15380693
I know that, but there's still two problems:
In Neuromancer, browsing the network is immediately introduced as this weirdo pseudo-mystical experience, so the new agey elements that pop up later don't seem out of place and you're already prepared to accept them as part of the setting's world.

Whereas in GitS, Motoko is the only character who displays (very rarely) spiritualist tendencies, the rest of the manga seems pretty hard scifi, and all the philosophical discussions up to that point are compatible with a physicalist worldview.
So when a literal angel meets her right as Aramaki is pestering about the psychic division, and then tells her about how you can meet God (and not just a digital equivalent of a divinity, the literal God from the Torah) through the internet, it's kinda hard to take that stuff seriously, especially since it's mixed in with a bunch of ideas from very down-to-earth science papers that make all the religious stuff sound almost metaphorical when you read it out of context.

>>15380694
I thought the part that was severely underplayed was when she told that one chick that she wasn't sure if she even had a ghost. Though they confirmed at the end that she indeed was human.

>>15380707
it's both, really.

It's not immediately clear that Motoko seriously believes in souls, and it's not immediately clear that she might be worried about being soulless.
So when she has her existential crisis at the end, it just sounds like Shirow is using her as a sockpuppet to say a bunch of random shit he wants to write.

Which is probably also the case.

>>15380705
>In Neuromancer, browsing the network is immediately introduced as this weirdo pseudo-mystical experience
Not really, at most it's described as a "shared consensual hallucination", but always physically described as a gridwork overlayed over vast nothingness with primary colored geometric shapes representing different servers and data banks.
As far as her being superstitious, she wasn't any more or less than an average japanese person.
Most of the shittness comes from 2.0

>>15380718
She doesn't have an existential crisis at the end, especially since he quickly told her she was basically human. Also, it was the puppetmaster speaking through her that was going on and on and on...

>>15380720
>always physically described as a gridwork overlayed over vast nothingness with primary colored geometric shapes representing different servers and data banks
Sounds exactly like what several early abstract painters (Mondrian and Malevich among others) did in order to depict supernatural entities and mystical experiences. Which is mostly in line with neo-platonism.

And don't forget that right in the first chapter the protagonist describes the destruction of his implant as "the fall". There's a bunch of mystical overtones to it.

>>15380727
No I mean before that. When she was going through her trial, and even Batou was worried about her becoming suicidal and Aramaki was trying to defend her by bringing up her emotionally disturbed state.

>>15380734
You're reading too much into it. The only thing case every described in a mystic way was biz, and always describes the net as a combination of adrenaline rush and high as fuck. Even when they introduced the vudu gods in Count Zero, they just ended up being splinters of the Rio/Wintermute entity.

>>15380746
fair enough; anyway there's no denying that the supernatural bits of GitS were introduced either way too subtly or way too bluntly, and that's what I was complaining about, when comparing it to Orion, where the whole gimmick is that taoist magic is the basis of technology (instead of being an anomalous byproduct of the most advanced technology) and physics follow the principles of karma.

>>15380749
Orion was done between GitS and 2.0, I wonder if that's where that spiritualism aspect came from.
Well, no better example of how to do it right and do it wrong than Orion and 2.0

>>15380749
...You know, we essentially agree, except that I distance or seperate the original from 2.0 to a great degree. Can't say I'm not bias, for obvious reasons, to want to disassociate them.

>>15380753
I'm pretty sure the spiritualism aspect came from reading a bunch of comics from les humanoïdes associés.

The influences are visible in the first GitS volume (the russian chick who looks like Bilal drew her) and Orion totally reads like a Moebius/Jodorowsky homage.

So my guess is that while he was working on GitS he read L'Incal, learned about the aborted Dune project and figured "hey that's pretty cool. I can do that shit too!" so he started jerking it to mystical stuff in the end of GitS before actually blowing his load with Orion.

and 2.0 is probably just what happened when his editor told him that his stories in 1.5 weren't high-brow enough compared to the movie.

>>15380760
That reminds me, I've gotta go back and finish the Incal. Amazing comic. Love those Where's Waldo-esque pages where you can spend 5 minutes looking over all the stuff they threw in.

>>15380772
Speaking of where's waldo, did you spot Deunan and Bri in the first main chapter of GitS, and prof. Matthews in the second volume?

Cause I did.

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>>15380237
The upcoming Infinity: Outrage Manga.

>>15380870
Wow that looks even worse than the usual Infinity stuff.

>>15380870
nice nerf guns

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>>15380237
old city blues

>>15378647
...does the porn count?

>>15380718
I haven't bothered with 2.0 as I hate its use of CG, but GitS basically proposed that all types of matter (which includes electrons in cyberbrains and light signals in cables) are in fact potential carriers of minds. So there's no actual qualitative difference between the ghost of Mokoto and that of that AI.

It wasn't supernatural at all in that sense. He kinda set himself up for a trajection towards the deep end of Nihonjinron though.

>>15381220
>GitS basically proposed that all types of matter (which includes electrons in cyberbrains and light signals in cables) are in fact potential carriers of minds.
Not just minds as in consciousnesses; Ghosts, as in autonomous psychic entities that can live on independently, and have superpowers (like perceiving glimpses of the future in Motoko's case).
And yeah it does, but the notion is introduced in a tiny-ass weirdo sidenote that's written from Shirow's point of view.
Same with god. It's a tiny sidenote that makes very little sense.

It's straight-up supernatural, magical events and ESP are explicitly mentioned in the first manga, in a very matter-of-fact way.

So when that happens, either you go "oh shit so those sidenotes were actually part of the story's worldbuilding?!" which is correct, or you fumble your way around the concepts of "god" and "ghost" by trying to equate them to more neutral concepts like "fate" and "mind" when they actually are very much religious concepts. I did the latter for way too long and 2.0 made me re-read the original manga and I realized that I had overlooked the supernatural aspect.

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>>15381362
That's terrible storytelling for ya.

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Okay that's god and all but who's your favorite Shirow gal and why?

>>15381544
good*

>>15378647
Appleseed is a chill postapocalyptic slice of life manga with occational bouts of paramillitary action. I like it.

the one with the oily horsecocks

>>15381362
What is this "volume 1 esp" thing you keep mentioning, because I'm at a lost at what parts you're talking about.

>>15381866
the first volume of GitS, the one where Motoko is floofier.

>>15381220
Sorta, but not quite. Puppet-master specifically states he choose Makoto BECAUSE she was different, human, so her algorithm is something completely unlike his AI. But, yeah, as far as being able to be digitized, you're right (until the 2.0 retcon).

>>15381923
Are you saying you aren't able to give examples of the parts where she has "ESP"?

>>15381945
Oh it's loosely mentioned, almost never shown. For example right before she goes diving. She later explains (during her conversation with 2501) that she had a premonition of them fusing.
And when right before she sees that 2501 is an angel, Aramaki tries to contact the psychic division in charge of extra-sensory perception events. His request is refused because they're busy dealing with a major magical phenomenon somewhere else in the country.
that's in the second volume.

>>15381945
Second chapter, she shittalks Togusa, and Shirow explains in a sidenote that it's because she believes that Togusa doesn't have "ghost whispers" which is how she calls a lifelong cop's ability to just inexplicably "guess" stuff.

>>15381970
>>15381962
Nice, now I hope that somebody's going to analyze his works and its relation to Nihonjinron in a language I can read.

>>15381987
According to Shirow himself his interpretations of magical stuff are very loose and based on conflicting sources, so there isn't much wisdom to be gained just from reading his manga.

As for Motoko's ESP, it's entirely possible that they were simulated by the puppetmaster to manipulate her. But, regardless, magic is real enough for a whole section of public safety to be dedicated to it.

>>15381962
After reviewing all 369 pages, here are my findings:
1. The diving scene, this happens after she "flat-lined" the first time she interfaced with him. Sensing the pattern of an entity that both had tried to take you over and was actually on the fringe of your firewall isn't necessarily "ESP".
2. "Premonition" of merging happens after their first interface where he literally tells her she needs to "cast away her shell" and "be part of the same system" AND being aware that he's watching her.
3. Aramaki called two different ESP divisions, one mystic and one scientific, because she had gone into brain-death after trying to force the Puppet-master "into a box". It was a last resort. Also, let's not forget this is Japan, shintoism and all, "psychic-quake" sounded like a joke.

>>15382031
Why would she tell 2501 that she had a premonition of their merging if that's just something 2501 told her?
That wouldn't make any sense, especially considering how critical and cautious she's been throughout their second discussion.
Like, in their second discussion she constantly questions all the stuff 2501 tells her, but in the end she accepts, because 2501 told her the same thing in a previous conversation? Very unlikely.


Anyway about the psychic division of public safety, it exists, and Aramaki seems to take it seriously enough to call them and get angry when his request is denied. He even seems familiar with one of the guys who runs it. Didn't sound like a joke to me.

>>15382087
He was inside her head, man. Infiltrated her to the core to the extent that she reached brain-death, then she felt him stalking her. Of course she had a feeling it was going to happen. If someone told me they were gonna murder me, then they stalked me around town, I'd sure as hell have a "premonition" they were gonna murder me.
Most people read her as being curious, she wanted to know what'd happen to her. The fact that she was cool with it once he finally told her they'd both cease to exist is a testament to that.

>>15382110
Your comparison doesn't hold. 2501 wasn't threatening Motoko, so she had no reason to be sure that they would merge.
And yeah, you'd have a "premonition", in quotes. Which is to say a strong feeling. Not a premonition without quotes. And Motoko had the latter. Knowing that she's a little superstitious there's no reason to interpret the word "premonition" in a figurative sense.

And really she didn't seem cool with it, especially considering that 2501 DIDN'T outright tell her that she'd cease to exist, but rather that there was no guarantee that she'd still be herself.
Motoko seemed really skeptical, somewhat anxious, 2501 didn't give her any solid reason to accept the proposal, just the vague promise that she'll be real good at analyzing data if it works. And yet she accepted, her only justification being "I had a premonition".

You better believe it's more than just a gut feeling.

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>>15382158
1/2
Yeah, far more than gut feeling. It was the Puppet Master. The outright reveal at the end that it was him making contact during the diving scene.

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>>15382158
2/2
By revealing what it looks like when he makes contact. Even in autistic mode, he's able to make contact. To claim that as supporting evidence that she has ESP is absurd. Especially since that was the first time the effect had been shown and didn't represent him in Makoto's mind in that form.

>>15382158
>You better believe it's more than just a gut feeling.

They mentioned in the first story that brain-dives result in the exchange of a lot of ancilliary information besides the obvious surfarce data. Mokoto probably had a decent idea what the AI was trying to do after the first time they merged, the same way Batou could tell that the kid whose sensory channels they jacked was actually trying for a suicide-by-cop.

Also the Puppeteer-scene states that the AI's ghost is shedding complexity and the scene suggest that the two of them actually already fused at that point to some degree. Would mean that the two of them only put the final touch to a done deal in the last story when they fuse their non-core-functions as well.

>>15382172
As I said there's always the possibility that 2501 simulated that premonition in order to manipulated Motoko, but regardless there's still the whole after-death experience and the psychic division's existence, and it's clear that when Motoko is referring to her premonition, she isn't referring to the first time she ghost-dived into 2501's head.

If she does, then she's just really stupid and/or self-destructive.

Besides, if Motoko the "ghost whispers" were bullshit all along, then the Net's God may as well be bullshit, and so are all of Shirow's sidenotes, and there's no reason for Motoko Aramaki to be seeing ghost tanukis in 2.0

>>15382182
For the hundredth time, her name is Motoko.

I get that you want to separate 2.0 from the original as much as possible but there's explicit (not entirely undoubtable, but still explicit) mention of supernatural elements in the first manga, and the premonition is one of them.

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>>15382087
As far as psychic powers, it's treated as a joke all throught the comic.
In fact, if you want to be real, the scene you keep talking about went something like
>aramaki: call the heads of mystic esp and sci-tech esp, STAT!
>assistant: (before she has time to dial) head of sci-tech esp on the line, said he had a feeling you'd need him, said he can't help.
>aramaki: WHAT! what about the head of mystic esp?
>assistant: sorry, he's busy dealing with a "psychic-quake".
And then they were never heard of again. Sure, if this was the end of the manga, but it was like 2-1/2 chapters before that. Even the Togusa scene you mentioned was depicted as a joke.

>>15382193
Yeah but Motoko doesn't say that she feels that they have already began merging, she says that she knows they are going to merge. I suppose it'd take a look at the original version to know for sure but all the stuff that happened during the first brain-dive could just be 2501 anchoring herself onto Motoko.

>>15382203
That's not the Togusa scene I was mentioning. I'm talking about a side-note in the middle of a chapter. The one with the garbage truck if I'm not mistaken

And the scene with Aramaki you're re-writing here really really DOESN'T sound like a joke. It's very dramatic, it takes almost an entire page, and none of the characters are drawn in chibi mode.

And considering that the psychic division is one of the major actors of 2.0 I really see no reason to assume (like you're forcing yourself to) that it was a joke in the original manga.

There's one or two jokes about god or magic, and there's at least as many serious mentions or side-notes detailing them.

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>>15382207
1/2
This is the scene. She gets so close to permanent brain-death that she sees an angel before...

>>15382221
yeah, could either be Motoko somehow witnessing 2501's soul, or Motoko having a glimpse of what they are going to look like once they merge.

Either way that's not something you'd show in a hard scifi manga and it's perfectly in line with how Motoko Aramaki can see spirits in 2.0

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>>15382207
2/2
...they pull all the her wires (like how people pull connections when they're getting hacked in movies). If not for that, he'd have taken her then and there. He had deep dove into her.

>>15382232
Considering she was stated as flat-lined brain-death and he was a single moment from erasing the existence of the entity called the Major, it sounds like she saw an angel because she was about to expire as flesh and blood being. I mean, that's specifically that the image of an angel represents in popular culture.

>>15382234
That's a possible interpretation. One that doesn't take into account the fact that Aramaki was desperately trying to reach the psychic division, in a non-comedic, very dramatic way.

Cause if you take that into account, then Motoko isn't really getting hacked, she's having a mystical experience and meeting an angel or having a vision of the future.

And no matter how bad 2.0 may be, it objectively confirms the existence of supernatural stuff in GitS.

>>15382207
Motoko isn't an all-knowing protagonist though and the whole rest of the series deals with the malleability of the mind.

The AI also mentions that they already exchanged copies of their minds on some level, that part of it has been present in her for a while. It put a religious spin on it, calling it a type of Karmatic bond, but on a technological level, what most likely happened is that the originally non-ghost core parts were transfered to Motoko where it slowly re-built itself by means of the data she inputted into herself day in and day out.

Furthermore, other works of the same author also are fundamentally pantheist stories that use scientific terminology to back up their religious argumentation.

>>15382215
You seem confused. 2.0 isn't a part of the original manga.

>>15382249
Yeah but we don't know exactly who that angel was. it looks like it's soaring upwards (shedding a feather in the process) so my guess is that it's 2501 showing her the way to heaven or someshit.

In the movie the angel comes down to her instead.

>>15382252
If your only counter-argument is "it was a thing in 2.0", then your argument needs serious reconsideration.

>>15382261
No, but I'm simply explaining that if the psychic division is a very real and serious thing in 2.0, there's no reason to assume that it's a joke in the original manga.

Especially considering the tone of the scene.

>>15382253
That much seems obvious, but what's exactly your interpretation of this scene (genuinely asking, no sarcasm)
>>15382221

>>15382264
>we don't know who the angel was
It was just an angel. You're the only one I've ever heard need the angel to have an identity or needed the angel to be an existing character.
Angels, and the "bright light" it emerged from, are motiffs. Together they paint a clear picture: impending death.

>>15382267
My argument is "Aramaki was obviously really serious when he tried to reach the psychic division as one of his best agents was dying".
I'm mentioning 2.0 as further proof that Shirow had something serious in mind when he introduced the psychic division in the first manga.

>>15382272
Being a throw-away bit in one work, and super-serious in another work aren't mutually exclusive.
One iteration doesn't supercede the other, they don't "merge", they're their own thing.

>>15382277
impending death, and subsequent survival as an angel.

The angel doesn't need to be an existing character but it's still a strikingly precise use of a christian motif in a series that's been Japanese as fuck up until that point. So I'm just assuming that it might be an existing character, and there happens to be two obvious options for that.

But yeah it could just be a random angel.

or a simulation created by 2501.

Still, interpreting it as an allegory of death seems really far-fetched seeing how it's not a silly caricature

>>15382281
>they're their own thing
They're the same fictional entity.

And it may be a throwaway line, but it's still significant enough for Shirow to dedicate several panels to it, in the middle of a dramatic scene.

Sure he probably didn't think of the psychic division as a bunch of naked chicks strapped into chairs with a bunch of cables plugged into their butt, back then. But he still used it to convey the notion that what was happening to Motoko was supernatural and not unheard of in the context of the story.

>>15382287
>and subsequent survival as an angel.
That's not how angels work. You don't become an angel, you go to the next (non-specific religious) plane of existence (the net/heaven analogue).

>>15382295
Do you not realise we aren't talking about the series as a whole? We talking about a specific work, constantly citing something that didn't exist till years later makes no sense.

>>15382272
It's most likely the AI ascending after it was channeled through Motoko when they tried to copy it to an external medium. At that point, it was probably going to use her like a chryssalis and crack her ghost wide open as it ascends, but Batou and the others pulling the cables, halting the transfer process and purging her system stopped that.

Its proposition to fuse is the result of its higher functions re-constituting itself as a ghost from her ghost's inputs and most likely from data it got from its network of ghosts it had previously infiltrated as part of its original mission. So at that point, the two of them have been part of the same ghost for a while already, but not quite one and the same yet.

>>15382308
If what you're saying (and can only be known by reading 2.0) is true, then that angel is either Motoko's premonition (and therefore not necessarily accurate) of merging with 2501, or a literal angel that just happens to be passing by as Motoko is about to reach heaven, or a simulation.

But anyway, even having read 2.0, how can you tell for sure that you don't become an angel when you're in the Net?

It seems pretty consistent with Shirow's use of angel imagery in Orion.

>>15382329
Hmm, that does sorta reconcile the angel scene from the manga and the '95 movie, but it needs the movie version to hold up.

>>15382313
Do you not realize that in order to understand obscure points of a specific work, it is entirely fair to bring up other works made by the same person?

>>15382329
Alright so it's basically 2501 with bits of Motoko in it, then.

>>15382337
The movie's very ambiguous but it's totally shot like a supernatural thriller, so I wouldn't put it past Oshii to have the angel be an actual one rather than a hallucination.

Then again it's also shot in a very depressing way, so maybe Motoko's "I put away childish things" line at the end was just her realizing that 2501 was going to fuck her over and that there ain't no such thing as a soul or angels.

What's your take on it?

>>15382334
Because 1.0 wasn't that deep, though the liner-notes with Shirow's constant prattle about research papers he read might give that illusion,
A bright-light, a vocal statement that life on this plane of existence is over, and an angel only beginning her decent are very simple symbolism.
His going back to that universe in 2.0 and going full-tilt into trying to make it 3deep5u doesn't change what 1.0 was.

>>15382374
And it doesn't change that in 1.0, there's a division of public safety that investigates supernatural events, and that Aramaki takes it somewhat seriously.

Even if Shirow had no plans to develop it into something more, it's still a very straightforward way of telling us that what Motoko is witnessing might very well be real, because there's a public institution dedicated to such cases.

Really, "angels exist in GitS" doesn't make it more or less deep than if they don't. It just means that it's not hard scifi and has fantasy elements in it.

>>15382339
>Do you not realize that in order to understand obscure points of a specific work, it is entirely fair to bring up other works made by the same person?
It isn't an obscure point. It's a one-off bit that years later, after specifically doing a spiritual manga, was given the spotlight in a different work. Saying it's obscure so you can bring in things from a different work might make sense... if it wasn't one of the simpliest things in the manga. It's "this" here and "that" there. Simple.

>>15382397
whatever, as long as you don't go claiming that it's "a joke"

>>15382391
So, your point is they "exist". I agree. They exist.
>Really, "angels exist in GitS" doesn't make it more or less deep than if they don't. It just means that it's not hard scifi and has fantasy elements in it.
People seeing "bright lights" and "angels" before during near-death or dying moments isn't "fantasy", they're called hallucinations, and that experience is very real. Remember, in the manga version, she has an actual brain inside the brain-case, she can have such an experience.

>>15382367
I don't, really. Her head gets shot off right before. It's why I think your theory potentially reconciles the two angel scenes. If the guy pulled the trigger just one second later...

>>15382421
No, my point isn't that they "exist" as hallucinations. My point is that Shirow coming up with the psychic division on the fly during this specific moment is his way of saying that angels literally exist as real autonomous entities in GitS, or at the very least that Motoko's vision is a supernatural vision of her future self.

Why the fuck else would he dedicate several panels to the psychic division when it's not even funny?

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>>15382431
Those leaps are dizzying. I'm going to post the only mentions for posterity.
Might not have been outright funny, but the uselessness of psychics in these are humorous.
Especially how the first guy pre-empted the call, but was still useless.

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>>15382431
2/2

>>15382457
that's completely beside the point.
Aramaki takes that shit seriously. If Aramaki takes psychics seriously, and if it's officially sanctioned by the government, then it means that Motoko isn't just having a hallucination.

It's not something that deserves being called "a leap".

>>15382431
I just realized these are psychic agencies and not government organizations. Though one does have the prestige of working for the emperor.

>>15382474
>Aramaki believes in psychics
>therefore ESP in the entire universe is real
Whaa...

>>15382337
The Angel-scene is what she sees after the AI got access to her visual centers. At the very beginning she mentions that she can't get visual data, so she's opening her language channels to it. Batou and the monkey keep telling her that the AI's started utilizing her systems for its own ends halfway through the scene then.

The first attempt was the AI using Motoko's ghost as a ladder it was absolutely going to kick away under it.

>>15382339
Nah, the AI wasn't the same at that point. Originally, it was constituted from data it gathered as an un-incarnated online entity and it was going to return to that state by ascending through Motoko's Ghost from that blank android shell it had been forced into.

What remained in Motoko after that failed was the re-written core that had attained a solid basis for another shot at its ascension, but the data that constituted its higher personality were apparently lost and required for that to take place. Being incarnated into Motoko's ghost and body, which wasn't a blank for sure, then meant that when it reconstituted itself, it did so by participating in Motoko's being in an absolute and total way. Calling the two of them seperate entities at that point doesn't really cut it. Their situation was pretty shitty, but the AI basically had semi-willingly incorporated so much of her original being into itself that the continuity between her and them united was a rather smooth one.

>>15382498
Well yes, it pretty much does.

What more do you need?

The fact that Motoko believes in ghosts? the fact that 2501 claims to have been to the afterlife?

>>15382500
Yeah, so it's 2501 with bits of Motoko in it.

>>15382522
That's not what "ghosts" means in the GitS vernacular.

>>15382546
Well it's clearly something more mysterious than just "consciousness" or "mind" or "self", because apparently Motoko thinks she can get preternatural insight from it.

That's a lot of stuff you're dismissing just to make sure that 2.0's explicitly supernatural elements don't "contaminate" 1.0 despite being already present in a more vague state.

>>15382563
The fact that you think a future work can "contaminate" a past work really shows your mindset. It's a tad bit delusional, like you've warped the reality of the past work to match a future work. Not how it works.
Also, ghosts are continuously portrayed as "conscienceness" and whispers as "intuition".

>>15382534
Their cores aren't identical, but the whole framework of its re-constituted ghost plus the modifications it made upon itself previous to that originate from her. The AI basically shed everything that constituted its non-Motoko-derived self in its previous attempt to ascend already.

>>15382585
I don't think that. You're the one who does. You think that if you recognize the supernatural elements of 1.0 for what they are, it will forever be tainted by its association with 2.0.

Maybe you're right in that regard. Maybe 1.0 is dumber for it. But who cares? it wasn't a masterpiece to begin with.

Also "ghost whispers" is a really fucking weird way of saying "intuition" and you know that. The fact that they make a big enough deal of it to say "ghost" and not "mind" should be enough to make you ready to accept that Motoko did see an actual angel.

>>15382563
>That's a lot of stuff you're dismissing
Try listing them without assumptions based solely on another title. Try listing them without assumptions on what "the author meant" based on another title. Try listing them solely based on the merits of the title we are actually discussing. I'll wait.

>>15382601
You're delusional. You've referenced 2.0 in almost every post you've made, not me. No, I don't need to go outside the source material to back up my theories.

>>15382601
>The fact that they make a big enough deal of it to say "ghost" and not "mind" should be enough to make you ready to accept that Motoko did see an actual angel.
Statements like these come off as insane. You're jumping from a to c without explaining the logically connecting b.

>>15382609
no I didn't

The vast majority of my post for the past hour and a half have been about 1.0

>>15382603
I already did.

The existence of two paranormal agencies that investigate ESP
Aramaki's trust in them
the use of the "ghost" terminology
the apparition of an angel
2501 explaining Motoko that "the Net" is the afterlife and the truth behind the Kabbalah and other religions
Motoko using terms like "premonition" deadly seriously

That's a lot of stuff. And MAAAYYYYBE it's all a bunch of hallucinations and flowery language but you still have to willingly overlook it to avoid concluding that it makes GitS 1.0 a fantasy manga.

>>15382624
Clearly we're at an impasse. No point in continuing, lest it devolves into arguing.

>>15382615
and statements like yours come off as disingenuous. You know perfectly well that logic is in good part made of jumps that rely on common sense to work.

Like it or not, GitS 1.0 isn't a perfectly autonomous isolated work. When he was finishing it, Shirow was beginning to work on a high fantasy manga. And it shows, to the point where it's unreasonable to claim that 1.0 cannot contain supernatural elements.

>>15382646
I'll settle at saying that the supernatural elements in 1.0 are ambiguous and dubious.

>>15382647
Never said there wasn't supernatural elements, I said the examples that Mokoto had ESP were weak.
Doesn't matter though, best to concede to an impasse while it's still friendly.

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>>15382875
which is best? big girl on small bike or smol girl on big bike?

>>15382875
Those legs are something else.

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Who would you rather get police brutalized by?

Motoko?
Deunan?
Leona?

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Is it /m/ time again?

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>>15384445
Motoko all the way man

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>>15384510
She's not very good at police brutality, though. But she did nearly fracture Batou's skull by throwing a mug into his face at least once.

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Anyone have panels of the fairy from Dominion acting clueless? I think there were panels where she says things but everyone just ignores her and they were cute.

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>>15384761
yeah but they're low-res as fuck

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>>15384761

>>15384445
Can i choose all three?

>>15384817
Again, more proof that the Puma Twins are pure.

>>15378647
I tried both Appleseed and Dominion but didn't really like either of them. Haven't read or watched anything else by him (including GitS)

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>>15385315
Gits is one of his least good manga

maybe you'll like Orion

So I've re-read the chapter in which the Puppetmaster was first mentioned and I'm having trouble figuring out what the fuck she was trying to do.

Apparently she's the one who carried out the multiple ghost-hackings required to make Togusa's gf (the interpreter) go apeshit during the Gavel/Japan conference in order to create a diversion so that the two bad guys could embezzle funds and put the blame on the Gavel government. Apparently.

But what bothers me is that she clearly fucked up: she used a traceable virus, and despite using at least four proxy hypnotized guys, S9 still managed to find out whodunnit. Not only that, but the Koreans had already told S9 that the bad guys had hired her even before they'd manage to find a clear connection between the bad guys and the interpreter. And, more importantly, she was going to be PAID for that job (or rather, one of the guys she'd hypnotized was gonna get paid).

So my question is: did she purposefully let S9 crack that case, and what in it for her?

Cause it seems pretty obvious that money is useless to her, and it doesn't seem like helping the two assholes (and making them pay hard cash for it) was going to be beneficial to the Americans. So it wasn't part of her job as a super-spy AI.

Was she just trying to get Motoko-chan to notice her?
Or was Shirow not even planning to make her an AI at this point in the writing process?

I read Dominion manga and liked it. Which OVA version is better?

>>15385655
Everything except the CG OVA is good in the Dominion franchise

>>15385608
Puppetmaster wants babies, sees Motoko as a means to do so, fucks over her creators to get dat cyborg brain pussy.

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>>15387226
That stupid memebot IS a babby.

>>15385292
>>15384445
I was going to make this post but the board was down.

>>15388011
>>15385292
No you can't choose all three, there'd be a clear conflict of jurisdictions.

>>15390308
Nah, see all we need is for Olympus to have a consulate or embassy or a diplomatic visit to Newport City.

Leona can have first crack at me as I try to get to the place, then Deunan as I try and get close to her, and finally Motoko to finish off as she tries to find out what I was doing.

>>15390317
Now you're thinking.

>>15384445
I'd rather have them brutalize each other.

>>15390327
As long as I stay conscious long enough to headpat the three of them, I'll be happy.

>>15390335
Right, even if I'm falling into unconsciousness as I get the last headpat in. I'd still count, right?

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>>15390349
You can't headpat a rowdy police girl if both your hands are broken.

>>15390349
Worth the concussion and compound fractures to feel dem tufts.

>>15390360
That's why you cover your hands while you can.

complete the following:
Artemis deserves _________________
The Puma twins deserve ______________
Assistant-inspector Katsura deserves _______________
Project 2501 deserves __________________

>>15390383
This. Tuck into a ball and let your legs and back get the brunt of it.

>>15390386
Am I being graded?

>>15390386
Artemis deserves a flea bag and spaying.
The Puma twins deserve luxury and wealth.
Assistant-inspector Katsura deserves to get upstaged at the Police Ball by Leona.
Project 2501 deserves a slap and being sent to bed with no McDonalds for driving Motoko crazy.

>>15390397
No, you're being interrogated, punk!

>>15390398
flea bath.

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>>15390398
>Assistant-inspector Katsura deserves to get upstaged at the Police Ball by Leona.

>>15390405
I don't feel confident in my answers, teach. What if I don't get a sticker?

>>15390416
>Flanked by her goon squad of bitches, looking gobsmacked as everyone turns to gaze at the beautiful section chief as she walks in with her dreamy date.

Is it legal to carry an amputee droid with top-secret military hacking powers in your luggage?

>>15390434
Depends on if it's a domestic or international flight.

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>>15390425
>the beautiful section chief
more like scruffy womanlet tomboy
seriously look at this:

>>15390442
International. She's coming back to murrika, snugly tucked between old socks and japanese porn mags.

>>15390446
Have you seen those legs though? And she'd clean up real good.

>>15390453
>Making a robot girl spend hours trapped in your dirty socks.

That's mean of you. I bet you'd store her in a laundry hamper.

>>15390468
Why not? It's comfy isn't it? Plus, she's already used to being hauled around in a gym bag.

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>>15390468
>those legs

oh y'mean THOSE trash-kickers?

>>15390481
What if she panics and starts leaking oil all over your stuff?

>>15390492
I wonder how Deunan would feel about those legs >>15382875

>>15390492
>Leona has the same pattern on her panties that she does on her bike's mudguard.

What did she mean by this?

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>>15390502
bam!

>>15390492
Yes~

>>15390519
Those are just shorts. You don't wanna see what's on her panties.

>>15390526
Neko paw prints?

>>15390492
>Hi again!
Hi mr Squid!

>>15390531
No, the neko stuff is Rerika's trademark

>>15390492
Legs for days!

Also post that bike pic.

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>>15390534
He does get around, doesn't he.

>>15390547
It's right up in the thread
>>15390550
He also appears in GitS during 2501's speech, riding around the galaxy in a flying saucer

>>15390526
Didn't we see them in that side story thing?

>>15390563
That doujin wasn't official, you know.

So I heard that GitS is not out uncensored despite getting a new edition because Shirow himself was against it. Is there a source for this?

>>15390563
you mean Phantom of the Audience? Nope. But we do see her punch her little bro and guzzle down gasoline straight from the pump.

>>15390572
Is the new edition unflipped?

>>15390572
Honestly, I think people have made more fuss about those two pages than really ever need to be. It's a bit of harmless fun that looks fantastic.

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Oh by the way, we know Kurutan is a nurse but what about Ran, the other girl?

>>15390581
I want to say civil servant.

>>15390591
what kind of?

>>15390600
Probably something pretty ordinary like Finance or Education. Probably brought in by Motoko and Kurutan one day during a booze session. Kurutan liked her playfulness repressed by boring work while Motoko liked her innocence.

>>15390578
Yes, apparently.

>>15390718
Hmm... not sure if I'll pick it up.

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>there will never be an adaption of GiTs like the manga
>there will never be an adaption of Appleseed without CG or subpar 2D animation

>>15390746
Deunan 'Rhodesia' Knute.

And yeah, it's awful.

>There was never a faithful adaption of the Appleseed books done with Riding Bean levels of animation.

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>>15390746
I really REALLY want to see genkitoko in animated form.

>>15390759
What was wrong with the 80s anime?

>>15390806
it has rather mediocre animation and the plot is excessively simplified

just leaves you wanting more

>>15390800
You get a hint of it in the PS1 game.
https://youtu.be/iTkOvNDhO_Y?t=8m

>>15390806
>>15390815
This. They basically mashed a ton of plot lines together and the animation was pretty meh. It'd be fine if it was a TV production but for an OVA?

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>>15390360
>>15390349
>>15390335
Disclaimer: Major Kusanagi does NOT deserve headpats, she is a loose-canon rogue agent with unorthodox methods and no respect for authority, who has committed multiple crimes such as:
-attempting to steal 10 000 000 $ worth of evidence money
-stealing her friend's homemade equalizer
-repeatedly hacking her coworkers' cyberbrains
-repeatedly using physical violence as a disciplinary measure, which almost resulted in skull injuries in one of her subordinates
-drinking on the job
-grimacing at her superior
-hacking and remote-punching the minister of internal affairs
-taking a member of the special forces hostage
-faking her own death
-contacting a top-secret military AI
-repeatedly shooting a teenager without firing a warning shot
-mobilizing the full extent of her section only to win a bet with her boyfriend
-brutalizing valuable operator robots for no reason
-using her position as a public observer to go drinking with her friend at a hip café instead of doing her job
-getting into dangerous firefights that resulted in the partial destruction of her body, thereby damaging valuable government property to little avail

She only deserves the strictest disciplinary measures.

>>15393321
Also I'm not sure that's a regulation haircut.

>>15378647
as long as no pre-oily horse dong material included, I'm fine.

>>15385292
if you insist of pick all three, Oily horse dong will be included.
that package can't be removed, revoke or anything. it's compulsory once you pick all three.

>>15393321
The headpats aren't for her pleasure. They're for mine.

>>15393607
Worth it.

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>>15393607
REMOVE HORSE
REMOVE GREASE

>>15394838
Delivery! I have a yard long equine dildo and a gallon drum of grease for a... Mira Killan?

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>>15394844
Yes, it's a very important delivery, proceed as planned!

Serves that bitch right!

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>>15390572
I doubt he's against it since it's 2 pages of all he draws now.

>>15394940
Allegedly he was against it 15 years ago.

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>>15394926
Major, have you been using public funds to carry out some petty revenge again?

Objectively, who makes the best faces? Seska or Leona?

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>>15396344

>>15396359
lazy lazy Deunan

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>>15394838
REMOVE GREASE remove grease
you are worst horse. you are the horse idiot you are the horse dong. return to /d/. to our /d/ cousins you may come our board. you may live in the cringe thread\'85.ahahahaha ,/m/ we will never forgeve you. greasy rascal FUck but fuck asshole horse stink oil galgrease greaseberries..horse genocide best day of my life. take a bath of dead horse..ahahahahahSHIROW WE WILL GET YOU!! do not forget Kobe quake .shirow we kill the dong , shirow return to your precious hentai'85.hahahahaha idiot horse and lizard smell so bad..wow i can smell it. REMOVE GREASE FROM THE HAIR. you will get caught. deunan+motoko+seska+leona+sybel=kill horse '85you will kobe/ m66 alive in /m/, m66 making manga of /m/ . fast kill m66 /m/. we are rich and have floof now hahahaha ha because of m66 '85 you are ppoor stink horse'85 you live in a stable hahahaha, you live in a hole
m66 alive numbr one #1 in /m/ '85.fuck the lizard ,..FUCKk ashol horse no good i spit in the mouth eye of ur doujin and magazine. m66 aliv and real strong robot kill all the horse farm aminal with eye laser now we the /m/ rule .ape of the zoo mangaka masamune shirow fukc the super naga and lay egg this egg hatch and shirow wa;s born. stupid baby form the eggn give bak our floof we will crush u lik a skull of horse. /m/ greattst broad

>>15397156
are you ok?

>>15378647
Manga:
1.GITS
2.Apple Seed
3.Tank Police and the rest
the eroge has a special place lol

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>>15398213
nah. just auto triggered when someone say REMOVE GREASE

>>15398471
What eroge

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>>15397156
Mh, so even movietoko can be genki. Who'd have thunk?

>>15398844
i meant hentai

>>15378647
Deunan's a big strong gal innit?

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>>15401469
why do think that is

>>15401469
Deunan's a big girl.

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>>15401659
4 u.

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>>15401727
But that's a tiny tiny Deunan right there!

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>>15403130
They really are quite small 25mm miniatures. GZG makes them.

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>>15403274
And with some converted landmates.

>>15403281
oh nice!

>>15403130
Geeze, anon, way to catch me off-guard.

>>15401727
>>15403274
>>15403281
Looked on GZGs site and found Briareos/Deunan, figure but no landmates, where are those from?

I noticed GZG has Bubblegum Crisis miniatures, any other old anime stuff like that?

I might buy some of these, most other Appleseed stuff is expensive as fuck, and these would fit right in with all the 1/72 stuff I build.

>>15403497
The landmates are converted from some Infinity miniatures, I believe.

http://www.lead-adventure.de/index.php?topic=14904.0

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Batou looks weird..

>>15403497
It used to have a big range of not-anime miniatures of... varying quality. But they trimmed down their range a few years ago.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2017-04-06/ghost-in-the-shell-gets-new-anime-from-kenji-kamiyama-shinji-aramaki/.114481

>>15406382
eh

let's hope it's better than Arise.

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>>15406382
>shinji Aramaki
oh wait
it's gonna be CGshit right?

goddamn this franchise is getting worse and worse

>>15407463
How much worse can it get?

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>>15407463

>>15407660
There's still room for it to get slightly worse I think.
It's almost hit rock bottom and CGshit is one of the last few things it lacks to finally get there.

I mean there's been several blatant cases of failed execution or awkward premise so far but we have yet to see it impaired on a purely technical level. And going full CG is precisely the kind of global technical misstep it hasn't done yet.

Clearly the guys in charge of the IP over at bandai or whatever are really trying super hard to think of new and exciting ways to fuck it up. And they're pretty good at it, I'm not disappointed.

>>15407680
Fuchikomas are the best.

>>15399683
Motoko can come in any form & shape.
that include Mira Killan

>>15407695
Indeed.

https://youtu.be/iTkOvNDhO_Y?t=2m59s

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>>15407732
>>15407732

>>15407728
Only when the bad guys get their grubby hands on her.

>>15378647
Tank Police, Appleseed are my favorites..GITS aint bad either

>>15407728
I want a pocket sized Motoko as a PDA/assistant/dress up doll.

>>15409528
What would you dress her up as?

>>15410683
I'd keep a big collection of various outfits, so one day, she would be in a leotard with workout socks, the next, a petticoat and maid dress, the next a waitress outfit, then perhaps some chainmail bikini outfits, and so on.

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>>15407728
derp, should have said 'that include in the form of Major Killan'
typing in 4chan during work is bad.


>>15407695
>>15407732
>>15407737
REMOVE TACHIKOMA
REMOVE FUCHIKOMA
UCHIKOMA STRONK!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x5DT_SSV5o


>>15410992
> not giving her any costume with high cuts design
your privileges on her is lost.
& i bet you'll put her in the stash of equine dildo & bucket of grease as well, yer filthy bastard.

>>15411096
They'd all have high-cut crotches on them. What do you think I am, a barbarian?

>>15410992
Sounds good, I'd probably just make her wear random barbie doll outfits to really drive home the fact that she's no longer a big bad cop.

>>15411096
Disgusting.
Why not tailor her a tiny leotard made out of a used condom while you're at it?

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>>15411157
even barbarians recognize the superiority of hi-cut

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Speaking of barbarians, who was in the wrong here?

>>15411201
Utterly disgusting.
Why don't you do that while you're the only one suggesting it?

>>15411222
Blondie's already got her axe into the tuber, so I'd say she got there first, however, she is blonde, which means she's probably a villain if Shirow's usual habits are in play here.

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>>15411287
>however, she is blonde, which means she's probably a villain if Shirow's usual habits are in play here.
Are you implying that Deunan's a bad girl?

>>15411308
She smuggles booze past customs, makes use of police assets for her own pleasure, like safe houses for impromptu holidays, pulled a gun on someone for just being black, terrorizes Hitomi and picks fights with her team-mates.

She may not be a bad girl, but she's not a good girl either.

>>15411308
Yes she is
>>15381544


>>15411336
Also she stuffs her bag full of hors-d'oeuvres at fancy receptions.

>>15411287
Maybe she belongs to a different tribe and came onto Brunette's territory without asking?

>>15390800

Thinking about it, and remembering other roles, would Atsuko Tanaka have been capable of doing Manga Motoko?

>>15411398
I kinda doubt it, she really seems typecast as no-nonsense action women.

Why does Motoko keep her socks on during the sex scene?

What does it imply about her character?

>>15411475
They're cute and she's cute.

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>This Thread

Why did they leave off the actual title of Ghost in the Shell in the English translation? It should be Mobile Armored Riot Police.

>>15411564
Allegedly it was Shirow's idea, to make it sound DEEP, and because Koukaku apparently has double meanings that allowed it.

>>15411564
this >>15411578
"Mobile Armored Riot Police" shoudl be the idea of the publisher
>>15411562
kekd

>>15378699
This, from those first two I was ready to put Appleseed in my top ten. Then the last two volumes didn't exactly fall apart, but introduced a lot of stuff that never amounted to anything. Even if he does go back to finish it, I don't trust Shirow to do a good job anymore.

>>15411710
Have you read the last two stories?

Just read the whole volume of Ghost in the Shell, was pretty good. Wasn't a fan of the first two chapters since reading all the tech jargon is a lot more dense than listening to it, but once I got going with it I liked it a lot. It was nice to have more of the Puppetmaster talking about the nature of life and having more visual representation than from what I remember in the movie, which I thought did a good job of putting together the memorable scenes of the manga. I was surprised at the end, though, because I was thinking, 'Which one of these Mad Max lookers is going to have a loli robot body?'

>>15411847
One more thing, though, I didn't much care for how much the last chapter suddenly was focusing on international politics when it had been mostly inclusive and local for the rest of the book. Felt a bit too much like 'hand of god needs to end this soon.'

>>15411825
I read all of it a while back including the extra stuff like Hypernotes and Databook. The outline of where the overall story would have gone is interesting, but at the end of the day it is just an outline. The two extra chapters are there, they exist, they're good but they don't really provide that sense of closure I was looking for.

>>15411860
The introductory chapter, the second and the fourth chapter all involve international politics, though.
You got the gavel republic, the USSR, the murrkans etc...

Generally speaking all of the international politics stuff is really confusing and not very interesting because it's hard to figure out exactly what each guy and each country wants, even when it's directly explained. Can't blame you for zoning them out.

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>>15411847
>It was nice to have more of the Puppetmaster talking about the nature of life
indeed...

And what precious insight she gave us!

>>15411890
I see what you mean but I say that those were all more directly related to things that were going on, whereas the Mossad stuff at the end was based on a conflict that was more remote.

>>15411210
>>15411222
Orion aside, I really wish Shirow had done more fantasy comics.

>>15412356
yeah it's a shame he never really dedicated more of his skills to that; it's clear that he likes drawing textures like muscles and cloth, he could have done some really cool sword & sorcery stuff.

But apparently he doesn't like drawing trees so that's a limitation

>>15412390
Deserts, mountains, grand fantasy towns, icy tundras. Plenty of places for adventure without many trees.

>>15411222
Both, obviously the root was supposed to be chopped, cleaned and used as double dildo

>>15413262
I like where this is going.

>>15413336
Same.

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>>15412390
You can see his recent fantasy art in Intron Depot 6 and 7.

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>>15414537
Saying that greasy horsecock is all Shirow ever draws nowadays is just a meme, but it's clear that after the earthquake he gave up on plotting long-term storylines.

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>>15414537
>>15414542

Damn it, you can see some of the old Shirow there but it's hidden behind CGI texturing and colouring.

>>15411411
She played a pretty goofy Caster in Carnival Phantasm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA9tZXR9mWA

>>15414542
Does he model and texture the scenes himself, or is someone else doing it?

>>15415710
probably him self there was like a page in GITS or a manga he explayned it how he works

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>>15415676
She also played Uzal in Pandora, who probably most closely resembles Motoko's playful side.

>>15416238
He usually talks about his techniques in the later Intron Depot volumes, but if he didn't do it himself, when have you ever seen mangaka giving credit to their assistants?

>>15418724
Not him but now that you mention it not a lot of artists give assistants their due credit do they.
The only example I can think of right now that does that is Manga Bomber, the Shimamoto meta series.