Gundam SEED Destiny Original Ending

>>15347723

I know how it ended. I was there when it ended. And frankly the remaster ending didn't really fix all that much.

>>15347723
wow this is really bad

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>tfw left to die a slow, cold death on the moon

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>>15347729
I like the added scene at the end where they somewhat redeem Shin and everyone becomes bros.

>>15347789
He should feel lucky that Kira was feeling merciful

>>15347792
>Forgive me for defying you, Lord Yamato. I have seen the error of my ways.

>>15347792

If Shinn had just punched Kira right then and there? 10/10 anime of the year of all years.

>>15347789
They deserved it.

>>15347792
That was the worst, though.

Shinn's character only makes sense if you view it as a gradual descent into insanity. This culminates with him going nuts in his final battle with Athrun and almost killing Luna.

And then fast forward a few days and he's suddenly snapped back to sanity and thrown away all of his rage to agree with Kira.

It's pretty much the problem with Shinn in a nutshell: the writer just couldn't seem to decide what they wanted to do with him.

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>>15348424
Except Shin has absolutely nothing to be raged about anymore after the final battle. War is over, time for him to fuck Luna some more in these peaceful times.

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>>15347723

>>15348440

I'd be angry if my second best friend, the man I put my trust in, and my ideals were completely crushed by the same guy that accidentally killed my entire family, and his sniveling sidekick with PTSD and loyalty issues.

>>15348460
Valid reasons they may be doesn't mean Shin would choose them himself.

>>15348460

Shinn was struggling to follow the Destiny Plan anyway. He was kind of iffy on it, and only Rey trying to Stella guilt trip him and the fact that it was people he already didn't like anyway motivated him to keep fighting ending in him totally losing it and almost killing Luna.

After that, he'd probably have second guesses about continuing to rage at them, especially when carrying a chip on his shoulder for so long got him nothing in the end.

Between that and things actually calming down once team Lacus won, and he's really got no reason to keep trying to fight them. He'd be no better than Blue Cosmos if he tried to keep resisting and fighting against them just because he's pissed at stuff that's long over.

>>15348440
>>15348460
>>15348470
>>15348513
Didn't one of the SRW games have Dearka point out that Kira and Shinn have similar ideals (minus Shinn's willingness to kill), and that they should just team up and forget Chairman Douchebag?

>>15347723
Still better than garbage like IBO and 0080

>>15348610
IBO is better than the whole seed tho. Stay mad

>>15348852
Except it isn't, IBOfag

>>15348548
That was L.

>>15347723
>Athrun goes without a scratch even after Shinn tries to protect Luna
No, fuck this. SRW's SEED Destiny is the only one I know.

>>15347723
Wow. What a great ending

>>15348513

What I thought would have been ironic is that if the Destiny Plan had wound up screwing the Coordinators over in the long run.

Like, the Natural person who would become the Doctor that solves the issue of Coordinator sterility never gets to do so because the Destiny Plan slotted him into a different function in life.

>>15348906
Your fanfiction means little.

>>15348852
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

No.

>>15349042
As much as your opinion.

>>15348440
Even if you don't have anything to get angry about anymore, you're not going to suddenly become better. Shinn would need years of therapy for him to get better.

>>15348906
It makes perfect sense though. Athrun, when focused and in SEED mode, has never lost and has a suit geared for close combat whereas Shinn is close to frothing at the mouth and has no focus. Shinn getting demolished so quickly was extremely fitting and satisfying and that's coming from someone who loves Destiny and Shinn.

>>15349207
Shinn was a shitter and deserved to remain stranded in the moon

Is there any thing that covers the political situation in SEED after the second war?

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>>15348610
Incorrect.

>>15348440
>War is over

War fucks people up and Kira's actions still caused a lot of problems for him and his allies.

>>15349042
Just because you can't afford the games and the console, doesn't mean you can just spout your meaningless "opinion", Paco.

>>15349207
>It makes perfect sense though. Athrun, when focused and in SEED mode, has never lost and has a suit geared for close combat
When has Athrun got into a significant fight on Gundam SEED by his lonesome with SEED Mode? Every time he went into SEED Mode, he'd do something, and then they would run off. Most of the time the Druggies would run off, it was because their drugs ran out, and less so because of getting their asses handed to them that badly. Even with that, it took him AND Kira AND their METEORS to take down Calamity, the long range Gundam in close combat.

By this standard, that means that nobody from the CE 73 piloting era is as good as anyone the goddamn Druggie Trio.
I'm not even against the idea that Athrun could beat Shinn, but the idea that he could do it so effortlessly seems more like because that was the stock footage they had to use, because they didn't have the time for anything else, than more so than Shinn falling apart

Also, I don't get the narrative behind it. The idea we're told after the episode airs is that he was unbalanced and losing his shit, but why? Going by his dialogue, he seems pretty fucking convinced of the Destiny Plan, and he seems pretty fucking angry at Athrun for not liking it.
Also, if the idea is that he's unbalanced and unfocused and that's why he lost so badly,, shouldn't he have been unable to go into SEED Mode?

Sometimes a spade is a spade, and a poorly written sequence is just that.

>>15348460
>the same guy that accidentally killed my entire family
He doesn't know that, dumbass.

>>15349606
sure

>>15349603
Athrun back in SEED would have straight-up murdered Kira had Aegis not run out of power during its last fight.

>>15347792

If there was EVER a moment in anime to re-enact the scene between Tatsuya and Philemon, this was it.

Wait what, they changed the ending in the HD version? What did they change?

>>15349603
>Also, I don't get the narrative behind it. The idea we're told after the episode airs is that he was unbalanced and losing his shit, but why? Going by his dialogue, he seems pretty fucking convinced of the Destiny Plan, and he seems pretty fucking angry at Athrun for not liking it.
Also, if the idea is that he's unbalanced and unfocused and that's why he lost so badly,, shouldn't he have been unable to go into SEED Mode?

You're not supposed to understand it. This is what happens when your entire overall plot is literally written on a week-by-week basis and constantly shifting the show in response to monthly fan polls starting from whatever point Sunrise ran out of pre-planned material and let an untalented director go totally improv (roughly around halfway through the show).

>>15348548
That's not saying much since said mentioned SRW also had Durandal being converted and joining up with Kira as well.

>>15349636
Yeah, but he didn't effortlessly and flawlessly defeat him.

>>15347723
how much did /m/ bitch when FLAWLESS VICTORY first aired?

>>15349436

i love this picture anon

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>>15347792
That made me very angry. Honestly, Shin was the only person left who wasn't a complete a slave to the perfect couple. Not to worry though, they fixed that.

Honestly they should have left it open with him being the Char for the SEED movie they never made.

>>15350244
/m/ had already lost faith in the show by that point. The bitching had already started weeks earlier. Compare it more to the end of AGE, people were mad, but a lot of us assumed what we were getting.

>>15350308
>people were mad
I will never understand this.

Why get mad at a TV show? Especially one you already hate?

>>15350424
Why get mad about anything? People have an emotional attachment to gundam as a brand. For, I imagine, a good number if not a majority of people on /m/, it's something they're passionate about. Why would people passionate about something be made when they feel like its been wronged.

>>15348864
>>15349095
>still in denial phase
Lmao. Get over it

>>15349726
You never saw the Final Plus? They incorporated it into the Destiny blurays replacing the original ending.
http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/Mobile_Suit_Gundam_SEED_Destiny_Final_Plus:_The_Chosen_Future

Destiny ended right before Jesus Yamato arrived on the scene. Pretend everything that happened after didn't happen.

>>15350237
It's not Athrun's fault Shinn couldn't put up as much of a fight as pre-Jesus Kira or a trio of drug addicts.

>>15347723
Holy shit that was some real shit men
> everyone becomes Bro at the end in the remastered version
Top kek. All of them would had been bedridden lunatics. They are bunch of teenagers ffs

>>15349895
>Also, if the idea is that he's unbalanced and unfocused and that's why he lost so badly,, shouldn't he have been unable to go into SEED Mode?

Not necesserily. There's Seed mode due to rage or desperation and Seed mode due to being able to focus and activate it at will. Kira and Athrun learned how to do the second, but Shinn never did. Even in the final episodes it would always just trigger once he got angry enough, or if he deliberately thought about all the things that made him angry, meaning he never learned how to control it properly.

>>15351561
They're coordinators not pussy naturals

>>15351563
That makes it even more severe.

>NICOL WAS 15!
>HE LOVED TO PLAY PIANO
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWjfbUfcJUM

>>15351698
That's just stress and hormones acting up all at once, at least in Athrun's case. Dude did just think he killed his best friend in a fit of rage, after all.

>>15347792
I have to agree with>>15348424 and >>15350297. There's no reason or buildup for Shinn to suddenly throw away his ideals and agree to be another pawn in Kira/Lacus' growing personalty cult, especially when he already spent a good amount of episodes prior to that debating whether or not he agreed with Durandal's Destiny Plan which in all fairness makes a huge amount of sense because everyone in that universe is bloody insane.

>>15351731

All Shinn wanted was peace. Kira and Lacus offered another route to peace. Continuing to fuck up the world just out of spite would be even more OOC for Shinn honestly.

>>15347837
I can see now:
>Kira: Let's be friends! *extends his hand*
>Shinn: *clenches his fist, thinks for a moment, then punches Kira right in his Perfectly Coordinated face*
>Athrun: SHINN!
>Kira: *wipes the blood away* Yeah, I probably deserved that. Still, let's be friends. *extends his hand again*
>Shinn: *starts to tear up at Lord Jesus' magnanimity, shakes Kira's hand*
>Scene proceeds as normal
Same ending, but at least we get a freeze frame of Kira getting socked in the face to use for memes.

>>15350013
You know, I can actually see that working too.

>>15351562
IIRC, it was a big deal in one of the SRW games when Shinn learned to activate Seed mode at will.

>>15349207
>>15350237
>>15351396
Athrun beating Shinn in those circumstances makes sense, but it's just shitty that we didn't get a decent fight out of it, especially since this is supposed to be the big final battle that the tail end of GSD was building up to (ignoring that it should've been Kira vs Shinn to begin with, fucking stock footage).

>>15351873
Well, like I said, I'm not saying that Athrun CAN'T beat Shinn.
>>15351562
>Not necesserily. There's Seed mode due to rage or desperation and Seed mode due to being able to focus and activate it at will.

Would you please stop making shit up?

>>15352261
He's right though, there's two ways to active SEED.
And they showed both ways (well three, if you count Shinn's reverse animation activation).

>>15350308
More like months earlier, it was already in full blown swing by the 20-30's

>>15350424
Because they didn't hate it? That is a cynical as hell assumption to start off with, if anything most loved the first 12 episodes except the UC diehards who already condemned it to death. Ep 14 onwards was when the descent began and never let up.

>>15351731

Eh.

Insane or not, at least the Earth Federation equivalent acted like they actually wanted to win a conflict and didn't do that load of bull the Federation in the UC does.

I always thought it said something that the Earth Alliance can create better fighters than a Coordinator without much effort.

>>15353810
Well when your pilots are on space-meth, they tend to be pretty effective.

Only that Captain Gundam shit was worse than Destiny.

>>15353893
captain gundam was kino

>>15352686
Please.
Stop making shit up. I refuse to do the DBZ-fandom head-canon horseshit here.
The very definition and purpose of SEED Mode is that the user has increased his focus. Don't make me go to the Japanese wikia.

Isn't that why Athrun couldn't use it in most of GSD because he was doubting himself?

>>15347729
>>15347723

Bullshit, the remaster and movie ending actually had an ending. The climax was a total bore but it didnt even have closure without that.

Destiny is a solid 6/10 with that ending and without it, it's a 4/10 at best.

>>15354062

This right here. GSD Tv didn't even have an ending. Zaft just lost one space fortress while the Lacus Faction posed. Literally the war could have kept on going right there for all we knew.

Final Plus at least gave the conflict a resolution and explained where the politics went for better or worse.

>>15349603
> Even with that, it took him AND Kira AND their METEORS to take down Calamity, the long range Gundam in close combat.
>By this standard, that means that nobody from the CE 73 piloting era is as good as anyone the goddamn Druggie Trio.
Well, there's Yzak, who wiped out the remaining 2/3rds of that trio with no drugs or SEED mode (and in a more basic Gundam to boot).

>>15353930
Stay wrong.

>>15355408
>Zaft just lost one space fortress while the Lacus Faction posed. Literally the war could have kept on going right there for all we knew.
I recall the name of it, but there was a game where the Clyne Faction do the FLAWLESS VICTORY pose... only to then all explode, and seconds later ZAFT forces fly in to proclaim victory for Durandal.

>>15357029
Sad to say, I had the picture of that on my old laptop before it died a couple months back.

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>>15347723
for some reason I love this guy, the quotes from gundam seed from him are amazing

>>15355408
Yeah, the space fortress that was pretty much the heart of ZAFT.

>>15358089
Best characters

>>15355408

>Literally the war could have kept on going right there for all we knew.

Did anyone even have the capacity to continue the conflict?

With the loss of Messiah, Requiem and with the losses everyone sustained, couldn't one assume even the most belligerent of factions would come to the table to negotiate?

>>15350424
>I don't understand emotions and people
Autism

Is it me or does it seem like people don't like the Atlantic Federation?

I keep hearing gripes about them on forums.

>>15362364

Zaft was still in decent shape. Yeah they lost their WMDs but they still had their giant MS deploying ship and based on all the signal flares and returning MS's they recalled still had most of their fleet intact.

Meanwhile the Orb fleet had taken heavy losses, although the AA/Eternal team was mostly untouched. And if it came down to it it's unlikely they'd attacks the Plants outright. They'd hit the point where they'd disabled or destroyed all the big threats they could complain about and would have to basically go back to Orb and leave Plant alone lest they actually try to conquer it in the name of Orb, which is something none of the protagonists would want to do.

Zaft probably would have still lost in the end, but they could have kept the battle going for a while still and mostly stopped because with all of the Durandal loyalisted wiped out, nobody else in Zaft really wanted to try fighting to the bitter end for a plan they weren't all that enthused about in the first place.

http://www.strawpoll.me/12614882
>>15362841
They're kind of evil with extreme racism, anon

>>15363335

Isn't their leadership that's the problem in the Atlantic Federation?

Speaking of which, who takes over after the other president?

With the Atlantic Federation being the most powerful nation on Earth, it seems like it could be problematic if all of their anti-coordinator influences weren't rooted out.

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>>15363430
Problem is that it isn't actually the Government in control of the AF. It was a bunch of racists who ran the military industrial complex. Azreal, for example is a glorified Lobbyist for Blue Cosmos (anti coordinator group) who somehow ended up in the OMNI command structure. Blue Cosmos is basically funded by LOGOS which was a military industrial complex group.

>>15363518

That sounds vaguely similar to Metal Gear's plotline to a certain degree.

Though did they root their influence completely out of the Atlantic Federation?

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At the end of the day Logos itself was wiped out by the Zaft and alliance of other forces. This was orchestrated under the guy with Char's voice, so that he could springboard momentum in to the destiny plan. Since they're all dead you can pretty safely say they're out of the AF leadership.

However, the setting is still fucked. Naturals still have every justification to hate coordinators. That's what happens when you establish a setting where a group of people are inherent better than others. At the end of the day what Destiny established as the future of the setting was peace through Lacus' strength.

>>15347723
It wasn't flawless

>>15364507
it was

>>15363714
https://twitter.com/HccvJPE8Dk/status/845450888726536192

>>15358089
It's because he's one of the few people that can see (and call out) how retarded his universe and the people living in it is.

>>15347792
One of the worst things about the ending is that Mwu gets away with killing numerous towns and Shinn's love interest just because he's friends with Jesus. I'll never get over how Shinn just forgets how Mwu promised he'd never force Stellar to return to battle.

Azrael did nothing wrong

>>15365838
I want that shirt.

>>15364507

Kira bit his cheek. That owie counts a flaw. Human nature, truly our greatest enemy. It even afflicts a coordinator Jesus.

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>>15364507
What do you call a victory with no casualty, heck, without so much as a scratch on the main "good guys" then?
And they dared promote Destiny with posters like this.

>>15366677
why they kept promoting Destiny vs SF? they only fought ONCE and that was when Kira caught Shinn sword with HIS BARE FUCKING HANDS and made the zaft retard look even more like a chump

>>15366677

Wasn't that the one drawn by am artist who came out and said he was just told to draw something cool?

>>15366754
Yeah, pretty much.
He said something along the lines of that he had no idea of what was going to happen, they didn't give him a script or anything, they just said "draw something cool!" so he did.

And unlike other rumor mills, here's him actually saying it.
http://yaraon-blog.com/archives/78444

>>15351873
>it should've been Kira vs Shinn to begin with, fucking stock footage).
No, shoulda been Shinn v. Athrun with Kira still kill.

>>15358089
Redpilled af

I wish I could have watched the ending with /m/.

>>15363331

I wonder how long they have till a new conflict is going in that setting.

With ZAFT out of the way, it'd be interesting to see which power on Earth takes advantage of the weakness of the other.

>>15347723
Good times.

So what would likely be done with any Extended or members of Phantom Pain after the second PLANT-Alliance war?

>>15366935
A shame, really.
What this brave man gave us is better than what we actually got.

>>15363335
>no Zeta
Why bother voting when the absolute worst was left off the list?

>>15347729
Actually it does.

What would have likely have been Shinn's fate had Durandel's plan succeeded?

>>15358089
His voice alone makes the dub worth watching

>>15369676

Is her aim really bad or something?

I heard it's a gag in Super Robot Wars.

>>15371527
she can't hit the broad side of a barn for shit

>>15358089
Given how fucking insane and stupid everyonein the seed universe is, he's completely right in his goals. Even Kira can only go "NU-UH" at Rau's arguements.

>>15371539

To be fair, don't some factions have a good reason for being like they are in SEED?

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>>15371411
The dub is pretty great on it's own though.

>Ed and Edd want to kill each and Ed also killed Eddy.

>>15371532

I thought Coordinators didn't have flaws like that and had exceptional hand to eye coordination?

>>15371370

Depends how loyal he looked. If he was completely sold and Durandal had no doubts he'd ever turn on him, he'd probably just be the Destiny Plan's enforcer for life.

But if he looked like he might be a potential problem, Durandal might have tried to knock him off once he'd served his purpose of defeating all his enemies. Durandal wasn't a guy that took chances.

>>15371539
>he's completely right in his goals
No he's just a butthurt clone and you're an idipt for taking his ramblings seriously
>>15371566
>Ocean Group
>good
Kek

In the ASTRAY novel, how the F do the folk from Mars know who Phantom Pain is and that their minds have been tampered with?

Not even ZAFT and the Earth Alliance at large was aware of that early in the second war.

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>To be fair, don't some factions have a good reason
let's take look

Good idea
>Killing genetic superman who will ruin your economy

Bad idea
>Trying to commit genocide on Genetic Superman via weapons instead nuking the doomsday weapon they're pointing at you to genocide all of your kind

Priorities are seriously fucked up.

>>15372754

Well, I do agree with that.

In truth, I'm wondering how different the situation would have been if the Alliance was aware that the Coordinators were facing possible extinction due to genetic abnormalities when it comes to reproduction.

They simply could have (perhaps) waited the issue out.

>>15372791
They're raving extremists, they can't be fucked to wait 50 to 100 years for all coordinators to die out.

>>15372799

I thought most of the extremism came from whoever was pulling the Alliances strings and not the Alliance proper?

>>15365922
Neo did all that, Mwu didn't promise shit.

>>15372822

Well, some of the regular EA soldiers are also on board with the genocide train as well when they attacked Boaz and probably Victoria as well (forgot if we see EA soliders killed any surrendering ZAFT soliders when they took back the mass driver)

>>15355452
>who wiped out the remaining 2/3rds of that trio
It was a hard fight against Forbidden, Yzak even needed to purge Duel AS armor just to win.
Raider didn't really count, the pilot was already going nuts from withdrawal syndrome by the time Yzak finished him off. Also I could be wrong here but in special edition they change it so it was Buster that destroy Raider (not Duel using Buster's gun).

>>15377107
Yeah, Deraka takes down Clotho in the SE version.

I've never be fond of the SE versions, always preferred the TV version instead.

>>15375043

There is an Earth Alliance soldier shown gunning down an injured GINN pilot after they retook Victoria's mass driver.

Though, to be fair, ZAFT started that at Panama when they reacted poorly to the events that happened at JOSH-A.

In truth, that probably worsened things down the line as I don't see too many Alliance personal issuing or accepting surrenders in the Second War.

The Alliance also destroyed most of the ZAFT forces by war's end in the first conflict as I recall them saying the bulk of ZAFT's forces were concentrated around Victoria.

>>15378301

>The Alliance also destroyed most of the ZAFT forces

*most of the ZAFT forces based on Earth.

>>15377107
Honestly, Shani's death felt like Yzak needed "something to do"

Duel Gundam flies out of an explosion and just takes him out in one hit. Doesn't this guy go toe to toe with Athrun in Justice Gundam on the regular?

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>>15348610
>>15348864
>>15349095
>>15353893
>>15368781

11 years and Cucksmic Era fantards still keep trying to pass the buck of "Worst Gundam Ever" to other shows. Can't wait for next year when they do it again.

>>15378301

I believe a good chunk of ZAFT's forces that were not stationed in Carpentaria and Gibraltar were in Victoria since it has the last mass driver left on Earth (excluding the civilian one in Astray) when the ones in Panama and ORB were destroyed

>In truth, that probably worsened things down the line as I don't see too many Alliance personal issuing or accepting surrenders in the Second War.
>Implying they were winning the war at all during CE73 besides the Destroy European Rampage Tour

>>15377107
>It was a hard fight against Forbidden, Yzak even needed to purge Duel AS armor just to win.
Sure, but that hardly devalues his managing it when you consider that Athrun and Kira had trouble managing even that much, and they're supposed to be the best.
>Raider didn't really count, the pilot was already going nuts from withdrawal syndrome by the time Yzak finished him off
And Yzak was damaged, protecting the crippled Buster and down to literally seconds of power. It wasn't exactly an execution.

>>15378372
Yzak already had plenty to do. As for taking down Shani, he faked him out with the destroyed armour and hit him while his guard was down. Diversionary tricks like that are far from unheard of from Gundam aces (Amuro's 'throw the shield' manoeuvre being one example).

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>>15378528

Well, they seemed have given as good, if not worse, than they got in a lot of cases.

Though Longreheim, Berlin, and Heaven's Base were ZAFT victories, they came at a horrendous cost to PLANT forces.

They made the second war VERY costly for ZAFT.

I think they also killed more Coordinators the second time around, which can be severe blow when Coordinators are already facing a decline in births. .

>>15371527
They added stuff like wind resistance to the remaster to make it "somewhat" plausible why she missed but it was still pretty retarded.

>>15379111

Are Naturals allowed in the PLANTS?

And how are Natural-Coordinator relationships viewed in places that aren't Orb or Mars?

>>15347723
I suddenly really feel like watching this entertaining BS again
I am THIS close to torrenting the HD SEED Destiny remaster.
Someone please stop me

>>15379111
>wind resistance
>for plasma/laser/beam whatever they use in SEED

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>>15379405
>Are Naturals allowed in the PLANTS?
During the War, No. Logically there would have been people there before hand managing trade and such. Someone had to make sure they weren't growing crops.

>Natural-Coordinator relationships
Same way /pol/ does. Look at it this way CE is a magical place where every normal person is Alex Jones mixed with David Duke.

>>15379535
I can't. It's kinda fun..
Really only goes to the dogs after Athrun quits ZAFT.

>>15379111
>They added stuff like wind resistance to the remaster to make it "somewhat" plausible why she missed but it was still pretty retarded.

I think the problem with that scene is that Lunameria isn't doing anything UP until that scene. They could have had a 3-2 battle with Freedom and Justice or something. But no, she sits in the ship the entire time, and then at the last moment, she launches, she races past all of the Orb mobile suits, takes fire and misses.

Like you, couldn't have her wing him or something? Or at least have some suicidal defender take the hit for it instead? It's like the entire scene exists just so she can look bad.

Char missed a similar shot like that in Zeta Gundam, by the way.

>>15379559

>During the War, No.

So any families that include Naturals have to scram?

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>>15379635
I think there were a few people in ORB because of exactly that. The Eurasian Federation supposedly wasn't that bad to Coordinators, or at least they claim that. However, we typically judge the Earth off of the Atlantic federation because at the end of the day they were the most relevant. The Eurasian Federation claims they aren't that bad to coordinators, but I highly doubt it. At the end of the day though who really cares about the Eurasian federation they got microwaved into irrelevance in Alaska.

Since I feel like sharing. Notice the middle east in the Japanese official map.

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>>15379649
Now in the official English translation.

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Was anyone else a tad bit disappointed they didn't introduce things like the Zeong to ZAFT since they were copying other Zeon Mobile Suits for PLANT use?

Also, out of all the ones available to Zeon, which variant of the Zeong would ZAFT be more likely to build if they had gotten it?

>>15353408
>acted like they actually wanted to win a conflict and didn't do that load of bull the Federation in the UC does

Man I forgot how nihilistic UC was, the federation just outright gave AXIS to char after he dropped fifth luna because he had some gold to bribe the upper leaders

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>>15379724
Great knowing Seed

>>15379535
>the HD SEED Destiny remaster.
Pussy. Be a man and watch the original.

>>15379878
B-But I want to see what they did in the remaster
The last time I watched Destiny was about 10 years ago
I think it's about time I re-watched the damn show

>>15379732

Gotta love how the politicians epitomize Odysseus's statement on War.

>>15371527
No, just average, but because she's a coordinator it's a colossal deal

>>15349028

XCOM2 disagrees with you completely. The Naturals are going to be like the humans in the XCOM2 setting, nothing more than body parts to help keep the Coordinators alive, forced to either live in rural communes outgunned or be forced to become coordinators to survive in the city where things are coordinator use only

>>15380172

You can't make Coordinators from Naturals unless I'm missing something.

And I'm not sure I'd want to see what that would be like given what the Boosted Men and Extended were like.

>>15378571

>I think they also killed more Coordinators the second time around

That's probably due to Requiem's trajectory being altered and ended up destroying multiple PLANT colonies instead of Aprilius One. Consider how Durandal was sitting comfortably on his ass in Messiah, I occasionally wonder if he knew about Requiem and just let the rest of the Supreme Council to die only for them to lucksack their way out

>>15380172

I'd assume Naturals would ended up being used as breeding stock with Coordinators in order to slow down genetic degradation if the Coordinators still couldn't solve the sterility problems

>>15380255
Requiem was one of the few moments where he seemed to be genuinely caught off guard, no?

>>15380266

Durandel did act surprised when it fired.

Like he didn't know the lengths Blue Cosmos-LOGOS was willing to go to to ensure their aims were met.

>>15380229
What? Then where the hell did coordinators come from if you can't genetically modify a normal human being into a genetically modified human being?

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>>15380272
Coordinators are virtually all invitro. they modigy the DNA of embryo to produce the most desirable results. Remember seed setting is a destiny plan away from turning into brave new world quickly.

>>15380272

Coordinators are created from genetically modifying the embryo before inserting the modified embryo into the mother's womb, which is why 1) they are called Patchworkers 2) the baby could come out not as planned and 3) the why Kira is the "Ultimate Coordinator" since he was born in an artifical womb (so zero genetic deviance aka JUST AS PLANNED)

>>15380272

Unless I've read things wrong, the people that become Coordinators are genetically modified in the embryonic stages of development before being re-inserted into the womb.

There is no known process at this time by which a Natural can be made into a Coordinator.

And on the subject of child birth, what kind of strange or irregular regulations do they have on that in the PLANTS? I remember the Minerva's captain mentioning she had to follow some guidelines or something concerning that when she mentioned she wanted to have a child.

>>15380291

>since he was born in an artificial womb

Wasn't La Cruset born that way as well?

>>15380297

Most likely genetic compatibility so the child won't become sterile, which is why Talia had to marry someone else

>>15380300

Considering that Rau is a straight up clone of Al Da Flaga and Al secretly funded the research of Kira's real father (cloning was done in secret as it is illegal in CE), probably

>>15380297
>I remember the Minerva's captain mentioning she had to follow some guidelines or something concerning that when she mentioned she wanted to have a child.
Coordinator race living in the PLANTs are in danger of dying out due to sterility. They probably go through a battery of tests to determine fertility and how the child of a couple might turn out.

Although Talia, the Minerva's captain said she had a child, it is apparently not Durandal's child. I assume they were a couple who split after genetic testing implied that they wouldn't be able to have children together or something.

>>15380300
Yes, but for some reason he's not considered a coordinator? I remember that early on (as the show was airing), the official website listed his genetic type as "unknown". Not sure what his status is now. He's supposed to be a "pure" clone of Al Da Flaga since he didn't like that his son Mwu was "tainted" by his mother's genes, but somehow he's enhanced.

>>15380281

That's another question I've had about the Destiny Plan.

From what I gathered, if it's based on genetics, wouldn't it automatically place Coordinators at the top of the hierarchy, regardless of individual skill or affinity?

>>15380316

Now I always thought La Cruset was a Coordinator that was grown in an artificial womb, but a Coordinator all the same, receiving the genetic modifications early in the process.

If not, that means it's possible that the one of the most capable men in all of the PLANTs was (possibly) a Natural.

Which raises another question, can a Clone even be called a Natural?

Or are they a new type of being, similar to what Carbon Humans and Coordinators are?

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Does anyone here know the name of the track that plays when Kira goes SEED mode in this clip?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wp2H1dquG0c

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>>15380316
>>15380344
Manual of recently released MG Providence state Rau is a Natural.
He might've created through artificial means, being a clone and all, but his Da Flaga genes don't seem to be modified. Heck, they didn't bother fixing his rapid-aging syndrome caused by cloning defect.
Maybe Rau was the original clone, prototype or proof of concept before they start modifying the next batch of clones (like Rey) into Coordinators.

>>15380266

It's a weird scene. He looks geniunely shocked, then looks around to make sure nobody saw him be shocked, gather's himself for a moment, then gives an outraged speech.

Being shocked and outraged should be a normal response yet the animation makes it look like Durandal is trying to put on a staged performance for some reason.

>>15380404

I find it hard to believe that such extraordinary individuals were sired (born in Mu's case and cloned in Rau's case) by a man that seems ( ability wise) unremarkable.

>>15380431

We don't see him do anything because he only shows up for a minute in a flashback when he was already past his prime, but Da Flaga was basically genetic perfection.

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>>15380325
>From what I gathered, if it's based on genetics, wouldn't it automatically place Coordinators at the top of the hierarchy, regardless of individual skill or affinity?
Well considering capitalism was already putting them at the top of the hierarchy. Naturals just can't compete. That's really why the bigotry towards coordinators exists at the end of the day.

>>15379629
IIRC, the manga changes it to KIRA missing the shot, due to reasons.

>Char missed a similar shot like that in Zeta Gundam, by the way.
Really? Do you happen to have a video clip I can use as evidence?

>>15379111
Sounds they just wanted a excuse.
Also they foreshadowed her being a bad shot anyways when they were doing the target practice.

>>15379111
>Beams
>Wind Resistance

Toppest of keks.

Also why the fuck was she put in a long range suit when it obviously wasn't her forte.

>>15380661
Because Fukuda had blown his budget at that point and all he had left was stock footage of the Impulse.

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>>15380325
Precisely, which is why it made no sense for the other Earth Alliance nations towards the end of the series which continued to support Durandal.

>>15380644
>Really? Do you happen to have a video clip I can use as evidence?
I don't recall Char ever trying to shoot down a shuttle. He's definitely missed some ships while using the mega bazooka launcher, though.

>>15372703
Because the Astray novel is garbage and Mars is damn near a second ORB with how overpowered and rediculous it is.

>>15380677
I don't recall any of the Earth nations supporting the Destiny Plan. Orb and Scandinavia flatly rejected it, and everyone else was still looking it over, probably in confusion.

Well, the leader of the EA might have, but Durandal shot him in the face with a giant death laser before he had a chance to declare either way, so it doesn't matter now.

>>15371527
She's pretty good in melee but garbage with guns, and guess what ZAFT sticks her with 90% of the time.

And yeah, they usually give her the 100% seishin/spirit command but make it ridiculously expensive.

>>15380255

This is something that I thought as well. It was shown in series that the Naturals were outmatched and while there are exceptions. That without Kira or Rau's treachery the Naturals are done for.

>>15380896
Then DWG2 gives her a Ranged stat higher than her Melee stat, but stick her in the Destiny and Char's Zaku II, both of which are Melee-focused suits...

>>15380677
>>15380893

I think the Atlantic Federation flat out rejected it and, even after the loss of their president, still did not concede to it, or at the very least said nothing further.

Also, he had no support from the Earth Alliance before the Destiny Plan, except for East Asia.

Do they ever explain why no one aboard the Archangel, Dominion or Minerva wear Normal Suits or spacesuits while in combat in space?

I see it being done aboard regular Earth Alliance and PLANT warships, but not aboard any of the three ships I mentioned above.

I thought that was standard procedure during combat in orbit or in the void?

Or is one of those "strongly advised, but not mandatory" kind of things?

>>15381661

People running around in the bowels of the ship are shown to, but nobody on the bridges ever do, probably because a shot to the bridge will kill them all anyway (and in Minerva's case the bridge is lowered into the middle of the ship anyway meaning only something strong enough to destroy the ship anyway will kill them)

There was that one admiral and his crew early on but that was literally it. Nobody else in the EA, is shown to do so for the rest of Seed and all of Destiny.

>>15381691

>Nobody else in the EA, is shown to do so for the rest of Seed

I think the bridge crews of the Earth Alliance ships shown during the space battles in the latter part of SEED are shown to during the combat around the moon, the PLANTs and GENESIS.

Not sure about Destiny as I think the only true Earth Alliance ship we see the interior of in that series is the Girty Lue.

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>>15381661
How would their tits shake in a normal suit?

>>15381851

>How would their tits shake in a normal suit?

Via the miracle of form fitting technology that has yet to be invested in due to Earth Alliance-PLANT feuding?

>>15378433
Its one guy anon and he is simply trying to stir as much shit as he possibly can by shifting the tile of worst anything to other shows

>>15380448

>Well considering capitalism was already putting them at the top of the hierarchy.

Even in the Atlantic Federation?

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>>15382362
It was happening before the series. John Glenn the origional coordinator was a citizen of the Atlantic Federation. Azrael's backstory actually involves coordinators bullying him has a kid. Eventually, as bad as this sounds, the Atlantic Federation coordinators self deported from the plants. It's funny I spend so long talking about the CE, when it's the timeline I detest the most.

>>15383077

So the nation from which the very first Coordinator would arise would eventually become the most anti-Coordinator nation on the globe?

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>>15383109
Yup. It's funny too George Glenn, not John, Glenn was basically Maxter Gundam in human form. To make it funnier that the USA stand in hated everything he represented.

>>15383214

If they have such a problem with Coordinators, why is the process not outlawed in the Atlantic Federation?

>>15383249
That's a million dollar question I can't answer right there.

>>15383249
>>15383267
IIRC, George Glenn's genetic mods were conducted secretly, and possibly illegally.

No one knew how he has so fucking talented until he released 'Coordination for dummies' just before he departed for his solo voyage to Jupiter. He comes back a few years later with a space whale fossil, but Naturals are too busy being mad at Coordinators for being so much better than they are for anyone to care.

>>15383249

According to background materials (Gundam SEED Official File and Cosmic Era Mechanics and World books), the process was outlawed after the process was revealed. However, many Coordinators were created in secret thanks to rich people wanting superior offsprings. Eventually a Coordinator Boom happened some time later thanks to the process becoming mainstream, which caused anti-Coordinator sentiments to soar and the rise of Blue Cosmos. I believe the now defunct Gundam Offical actually had a timeline that talked about Pre SEED events

>>15383077
>Azrael's backstory actually involves coordinators bullying him has a kid.
>>15383288
>However, many Coordinators were created in secret thanks to rich people wanting superior offsprings.
Wasn't Azrael mad that his parents specifically chose to NOT make him a Coordinator? Like, he's one of the best among Naturals, but he's painfully average/inferior once you include Coordinators.

>>15383304
>Wasn't Azrael mad that his parents specifically chose to NOT make him a Coordinator?
As a kid here's the run down in green text
>Azrael gets bullied by coordies
>runs to mommy crying why didn't she make him a coordinator
>mother slaps his shit and says she would never make her son a monster like coordinators
>Azrael now vehemenatly hates coordinators for life

>>15383286
he basically dumps the how to make coordinators guide to the public when he goes on his mission to retrieve the space whale.

>>15383288

>I believe the now defunct Gundam Offical actually had a timeline that talked about Pre SEED events

I hope you can wayback it then.

>>15383329

I'm not sure if the Cosmic Era entry in Gundam Wikia is copypasta'd from Gundam Official, unless I can confirm it is 100% transplanted from said site I'd hold skepticism because >Gundam Wikia

>>15347723
I haven't seen this since it aired, nor have I seen the remaster, but some of the dialogue here hits too close to home.

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>>15381851
This >>15381928

>>15383353
>>15383329
I'm pretty sure it is, but here. I keep old gundam official bookmarked because I enjoy citing Duo is "American" in wing and post American pilots threads.

https://web.archive.org/web/20070927205938/http://www.gundamofficial.com/worlds/ce/background/timeline.html

>>15383357
What dialogue? That you should be free to live your life (as long as it doesn't offend Kira-sama)?

>>15383386

Much obliged, as that is very informative.

Also, I assume George Glenn is the CE equivalent of Zeon Deikun?

>>15383386

>I keep old gundam official bookmarked because I enjoy citing Duo is "American" in Wing and post American pilots threads.

kek

>>15383429

Depending on how one see it it might not be the case, in one of the first Astray mangas it seems that he (his brain was preserved and is a hologram known as GG) is rather disappointed on how the events have unfolded and stated that purpose of Coordinators are not to "rule over" Naturals but to help guide humanity

>>15383429
Honestly, there is no clean analogue.
>made in lab
>grows up a good american
>Plays football
>Goes to MIT
>Somehow goes to the NFL
>Joins the Air force and becomes an ace fighter pilot
>Becomes an Astronaut
>Wins Scientific Awards
>generally popular with everyone
>planning mission to Jupiter on not-jupitris
>Announces to everyone before he goes, hey I'm a genetic super here's the recipe so more people can be like me
>Comes back from Space with proof of aliens
>Coordinators still aren't hated yet
>goes to space colony does research on aliens
>Designs stupid hour glass colonies
>Earth is now fucked up with coordinator politics and a class structure of rich people making supermen babbies.
>Gets killed by an angry natural, likely from blue cosmos

He was never really active enough in the politics of the world to be Zeon.

>>15383429

Not really. His plan or ideal was for Coordinators to raise the standard of living, while interbreeding with Naturals to share their super genes throughout the gene pool so eventually future generations would all have better genes, while Naturals accepted their betters and let the Coordinators lead their decendents to a bright new tommarow.

Instead the Naturals were jealous of their superior genes they could never have, while Coordinators got arrogant and flaunted their talents before the inferior Naturals which eventually lead to them going off into space and later the war. All because nobody really cared about a hypotheitical better future they wouldn't live to see and were more concerned about their own present.

That reminds me, there's a list of a bunch of crap that's wrong with the Destiny Plan on the Jpn SRW wikia

>>15383988
Link?

Is this just a coincidence or did Fukuda take Rau name from this
https://www.lecreuset.com/

Why is it that, despite all the hate the CE era series get, it always results in the most interesting discussion?

>>15386755
Because the universe itself is great and so is the ideas it brings up (but frequently fails to capitalize on).

Plus there's evidence (Stargazer) to show what can be done with CE under the proper staff and supervision.

>>15386893
>Because the universe itself is great and so is the ideas it brings up (but frequently fails to capitalize on).
That's a very good point. It actually has a very well-developed setting that's pretty ripe for exploration, much like what UC gundam became with the side stories and technical fluff. A pity that it became so shortsightedly engrossed in the interpersonal drama of high school soldiers in giant robots.

>>15383470

>>Designs stupid hour glass colonies

Correction, the PLANTS are research facilities.

>>15383384
I like how the fabric across her breasts sinks in after she's done suiting up just to 'show' cleavage.

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>>15385859

I think his name is is reference to the fact that he is the trial and tool by which Humanity will meet it's end. Le Creuset is French for "The Crucible". Crucible can be defined as:

> : a place or situation in which concentrated forces interact to cause or influence change or development.

Either that or, as your link indicates, someone at the reigns of SEED was a fan of that series of cooking appliances.

>>15386963

How'd they overhaul them into permanent living arrangements then?

Since Durandel was Rau's friend and doctor, does he feel any guilt over not being able to steer Rau away from his actions?

Were LOGOS and Blue Cosmos why the Atlantic Federation was ahead of their Eurasian Alliance and Asian Republic allies in terms of armament?

And did the Eurasian Federation ever have anything to say about Psycho Gundam's rampage?

Or did the Eurasian Federation give the go ahead for that given the thing came out of the Russian steppes?

It's official, Destiny no longer has the worst ending

>>15388429
I remember Destiny has that scene where Durandal playing chess with Rau's ghost. Don't remember what they're talked about though (or how that scene makes any sense).

>>15383470

Is it me or do most of the problems and problem makers in SEED originate from the Atlantic Federation?

>>15390441
Fukuda & Morosawa pretty clearly hated their America Stand in.

>>15388429

Forget that, why did he not try to stop him. Knowing about what Rau wanted and was doing and not stopping or reporting him implies Durandal was ok with being genocided, which is really strange.

>>15390556

>Forget that, why did he not try to stop him.

Maybe he wasn't aware of Rau's full intentions or thought Rau was delusional.

>>15347723
after all those years i still the SEED activation so fucking cool.

>>15393632

I used to think SEED mode was "Yandere mode" given how the eyes look when someone is in it.

>>15384000
https://srw.wiki.cre.jp/wiki/%E3%83%87%E3%82%B9%E3%83%86%E3%82%A3%E3%83%8B%E3%83%BC%E3%83%97%E3%83%A9%E3%83%B3
1) 解析は正しいのか、遺伝子のみを判断材料にしてよいのか?
2) 個人の性格や文化的な問題にどう対処するのか?
3) システムが不正に使用されたり歪められたりしないのか?
4) 誰もやりたがらないが絶対必要な仕事(いわゆる3Kなど)や誰がやっても同じような単純な仕事には誰を充てるのか?
5) 適正を持つ人の数とその職業に必要な数の差(就労の需給ギャップ)はどのように解消するのか?
6) およそ何にも向いていない人はどうするのか、モチベーションの維持は可能か?
7) プランによって遺伝子の適正について教えられても、それを受け入れて、プランに従い続ける事が出来るのか?
8) プランを拒否した者達は、その後どのような社会的処置を受けてしまうのか? また実際、デスティニープランを施行しようとする場合、多くの問題がでてくる。
9) 内政干渉である。
10) 戦後という状況でプランに必要な資材や資金などどれくらい必要になるのか? そして、用意できるのか?
11) プランを施行するにしても、すぐ施行できる訳ではなく、施行するにはどれくらいの時間が必要なのか?
12) ユニウスセブン、戦争、ロゴス狩りで荒廃した場所で適正に合った仕事があるかどうか?
13) デュランダルのロゴス発表によって起きたロゴス狩りによる荒廃、オーブとの関係、終戦の条件等々、プランよりも前にしなければいけない事が山程ある。

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>>15393849

Now to be fair, isn't the Destiny Plan very difficult to enforce in practice?

Even with the threat of force, Naturals outnumber Coordinators and the world has shown more than once that it doesn't balk at visiting violence upon a Coordinator.

>>15393944

>Now to be fair, isn't the Destiny Plan very difficult to enforce in practice?

It is since human is one of the greatest variable in any models, plans, and what not, which is why I can't understand how people defending Durandal and Destiny Plan thinking he can do no wrong without resorting to complaining about Kira and Lacus for "getting in his way", trying to use Mars as an example, or something along the lines

>>15394127

>trying to use Mars as an example

Of what?

>>15394463

Of how Destiny Plan will work well enough in Earth Sphere because a similar scheme was working on Mars (Delta Astray)

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>>15383470

Sounds like they should have had him advertising beer.

>>15394515

Yes, but weren't those results achieved naturally and not at what amounts to gun point?

>>15347723
The fuck, did Rey live in the remaster?

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At least some of the mobile suits were cool looking.

Who has more Mobile Suit variation?

The Alliance or ZAFT?

>>15372054

Wouldn't he have been a problem anyway given he'd be an unstable and unpredictable element?

>>15348424
The was the one good thing that Destiny had going for it. The basic premise of seeing a story told from a character who is firmly and genuinely dedicated to the bad guy's side is interesting, and we see Shin basically push himself into increasingly warped and emotional thinking to have things make sense for him, culminating with him screaming in sadness and anger at everything he had fought for being destroyed by the good guys.

To bad the writing was terrible and Kira had the depth and personality of a puddle. There were a few episodes where Athrun almost seemed to grasp that things aren't black and white and you can't just beamspam the world into doing things your way, but then Kira punched his Gundam so hard that his character development fell off.

>>15395892

>you can't just beamspam the world into doing things your way

Isn't the point of GENESIS and Requiem to do exactly that?

>>15380394
I gotta admit. SEED and SEED Destiny have excellent soundtracks. I've been looking through my flac folder of the OST and I'm enjoying a lot of it
I just find the one you're looking for though.
What episode was this? The ost disks may go in order of what episode it aired.

>>15397664
It's episode 18.

>>15355452
That is because Yzak is based as fuck as a pilot.

>>15397690
Thanks anon
I'll try going through it again later. I'm finding almost every other track in the episode except the one the anon is looking for.
If that anon wants to look around though, I'm finding most of the tracks in disk 2 and 3.

Do they ever name the song that plays when the Zaft forces attack the Destroy for the first time or when it's rampaging through Berlin before the Archangel or Minerva arrive?

Anyone know the story behind "Ed the ripper"?

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>>15398997
sounds adorable

>>15398997

His name is Ed. One time he killed a Ginn in a fighter jet by slicing it with his wing as he was flying by.

That's it.

>>15399033

How'd that even work?

I thought the stuff they built Mobile Suits out of was stronger than what they built Aircraft out of?

>>15399109
If i had to guess the impact would tear the wing apart however the KE from it would have gone into the GINN at the point of impact so it could have fucked both up.

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>>15397714
That he is anon, that he is.

He even got to be the one who finally wasted general cleft chin on top of everything else. The SEED finale was good to Yzak.

>>15399225
Yzak was too based for this series.

Yzak was too based fort this world

>>15399252
Yzak is literally the only returning cast member in Destiny whose development is not only *not* undone or ploughed into the ground, but actually furthered.

>>15399193

Isn't it mentioned that Ed's plane returned with the wings supposedly in tact and covered in blood?

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Were Earth Alliance Mobile Suits superior to their ZAFT counterparts?

And how powerful was the Windam? I saw Neo giving more than one person a good fight with one.

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>>15401557
>Were Earth Alliance Mobile Suits superior to their ZAFT counterparts?
Depends on what models you're talking about. On the whole, their grunt suits are more or less on par with each other.

>And how powerful was the Windam? I saw Neo giving more than one person a good fight with one.
Windam has the dubious distinction of never being shown shooting down any enemies in show. Even Neo's Windam only destroyed the Freedom's shield with with anti-armor darts or something. It's still supposed to be on par with the ZAKU series, though, and I don't personally remember Neo dueling anyone with it, unless you can refresh my memory. I do know that Kira dismantles Neo's Windam with ease.

https://youtu.be/GNpTe5l10OA?t=939

>>15401596
>Jenices and Tierens got more on screen kills than the Windam

>>15401596
>I don't personally remember Neo dueling anyone with it, unless you can refresh my memory

He also fought Shinn in Impulse early on and managed to draw even with him, but all he really accomplished was not getting shot down instantly like the 29 other Windam's he had and Shinn being incredulous that a grunt was actually moving around and not sitting there getting shot.

He also did manage to duel Kira for a bit before Kira suddenly took him down in one attack.

>>15401596

What do the different shield colors denote?

So what would it be like if they replaced the Shin in Sakura Wars with Shinn from SEED?

>>15402618
>different shield colors
What? They're just different shield mounted on each different model (Windam and Dagger-L)

>>15401596
MGs when

(._.)

>>15403466
>non-Kira piloted suit
Never.

>>15397923
I believe the theme you're thinking of is Kyouki no Hate (狂気の果て) http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm9948030

Sorry, the original isn't up on Youtube.

>>15401557
When the series was airing, I recall them saying that the Windam was supposed to be the "ZAKU Buster".
>>15401842
Did Shinn actually take down all 29? I can't remember.

Come to think of it, that episode was kind of a disjointed mess. Shinn goes from fighting a bunch of Windams, to fighting Neo for a bit, then he ends up fighting Stella, and THEN he stumbles onto a secret slave base.

>>15401596
What's the name of the animation style they used on GSD?
I really fucking hate it.

>>15403480
>Providence
>Justice

>>15380661
The wind resistance was shaking the gun, not the beam itself.

>>15347723
What is the highest quality without it being George Lucas edition?

>>15379656
All I remember is that the Atlantic Federation (aka the Evil American White Devils) basically started the first war by straight up nuking one of the PLANTS. Didn't they also invade Orb too?

>>15380311
The manual of the MG Providence states that Rau is "perfect" genetic copy of a Natural, therefore as a Natural clone without any Coordinator gene mods he is considered Natural by extent. He just happens to be very gifted at piloting and scheming.

>>15403579
DVD

>>15399225
Anyone have webms of Yzak killing the druggies?

>>15404037
that scene where he purges the shroud and fucking outskills the asshole with the scythe was great

>>15404501
I'm more partial to the scene where he tears Dearka's launcher from the hands of his wrecked Gundam so he can take one final shot at the divebombing Raider with the literal last seconds of power in his battery.

>"GIMME THAT WEAPON!"

What a badass.

>>15393944
Thats what the death ray was for.

Hanging over Earth like the Sword of Damocles to keep everyone who didn't like Durandals plan form trying to stop it.

>>15394515
>>15394528
They were achived without coersion yes however considering Mars is as unrealistic nation as ORB is and the fact most of what we see from Mars is Coordinators, Coordinators, Coordinators? Yeah im really skeptical about Mars claims.

>>15403530
Shitty early 2000s digital colouring

>>15405957

Yes, but that still might not break resistance.

Especially if they believe they can destroy said weapon.

The fact that Zaft could seize the weapon means that someone else might be just as able to do so, not disable or destroy it.

>>15406051
That's why they had two and if they'd won would have probably built more to make sure noone tries anything.

>>15406051

>so, not disable or destroy it.

*so, if not disable or destroy it.

>>15406069

Given that was an Earth Alliance and Blue Cosmos weapon, I find it unlikely they could build a second one.

In the time it'd take to do that, someone could have easily came along and destroyed the first one.

Not to mention the weapon itself is next to useless if the Relay Stations that allow it to change directions are destroyed in space.

>>15406130
No i ment the NEO-GENESIS weapon they had on Messiah.

ZAFT had to have been building that thing for a long time considering it's size.

Requiem being captured just made things easier for Durandal.

>>15406069
>>15406130

And on top of that, where are they going to even get the resources to do that expediently?

The Requiem could be a weapon that was only made possible with the financial backing of LOGOS, whom had whole arms manufacturing conglomerates behind them.

I doubt ZAFT would be able to call upon or extort those same resources.

Especially since Durandel undid the very individuals who were behind said weapon.

>>15406180

Did the one they built into Messiah even have the power of the previous one?

It heard it wasn't near about as powerful as what Patrick Zala would attempt to wreck the Earth with in the last conflict.

>>15406186
They built Messiah in secret and in the first war built GENESIS in secret both massive construction projects.

Even without Requiem ZAFT had no issue pulling resources outta it's ass for superweapons.

>>15406226
It wasn't quite as powerful no however it could fire much much faster since it didn't need to replace the reflector after every shot.

A hit from it could have still one shotted ORB so that's plenty of firepower even if it isn't a continent wiping blast like the first GENESIS.

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I just thought of something.
Early on in GSD, we see that the EA tries another nuclear missile strike, and it's thwarted by the Neutron Stampder. Okay, that's a good reason as to why they wouldn't try it again.

But seeing as the EA doesn't mind breaking the treaty, why aren't they making use of the NJC in other ways? When they first get their hands on the technology, there's a discussion of bringing back nuclear power to help their cities, but Azrael shifts the discussion to using missiles.

What's the reason for EA to not tap that potential now?
>>15406228
They pulled the Messiah out the same place they got the writers did. Right out of their assholes.

It's quite literally a redesigned Rasenjoh, and acts entirely the same, right down to the spherical barrier protecting it.

>>15407284

>Rasenjoh

Had not heard of that till now.

>>15355452
That's probably the result of the writers not knowing how they would kill the druggies. Still based as fuck though.

He destroyed two new models piloted by super soldiers with the equivalent of RX-78-1.

>>15410184
Meanwhile, Kira and Athrun with essentially the Zeta during the OYW couldn't do shit about them for ten episodes.

>>15410325

They actually outmanuvered and defeated them several times before that but would also inexplicably opt to just kick them away rather than try a kill shot, which makes sense with Kira but not Athrun.

>>15407284
>When they first get their hands on the technology, there's a discussion of bringing back nuclear power to help their cities, but Azrael shifts the discussion to using missiles.
>What's the reason for EA to not tap that potential now?

They already solved that problem according to the backstory.

The don't make NJC Gundam's because they're too high spec for Naturals to pilot even with a Natural OS.

>>15410559
That's pretty fucking stupid.
Isn't that what Extended and those huge mobile armors are for?
Besides that, where does that information come from?

>>15409460
Mind you, that's me saying that they were scraping around for designs, not something that was officially stated.
>>15410551
I rewatched a few scenes. There's like 3 times in the series where two of the Druggies could have taken out Freedom if not for Athrun's intervention.

>>15403521
>Did Shinn actually take down all 29? I can't remember.

He takes out 28, Athrun takes out one and then only Neo is left at which ponit he bails.

>>15410325
>>15410551
From what I remember, for all their bickering and friendly fire the druggies were pretty good at covering each other and working as a loose team, which let them hold their own against Athrun and Kira in a straight fight. Yzak took his first down by fighting smart/dirty, something neither of them bothers with because they lean so heavily on raw piloting skill(Athrun) or technical skill(Kira). They're inflexible compared to the likes of Amuro, who was much more devious.

>>15410884
That, and Clotho has pretty much lost it at that point.

>>15410971
He was the second one, and by that point Yzak wasn't in great shape himself.

>>15410884
>They're inflexible compared to the likes of Amuro, who was much more devious.
I haven't been on /m/ long enough to see this discussed, but I always thought that Amuro piloting Nu Gundam would defeat Kira piloting Strike Freedom, for precisely this reason. Kira after getting the Freedom struggles with any sort of unconventional tactics (that Druggie with the beam-deflecting shield, Destroy's beam deflecting shields, Shinn's OPEN GET moves). On the other hand, Amuro basically specializes in fighting dirty.

>>15411037
Yeah, the notion comes up occasionally in discussion that Kira "just uses an aimbot for everything", and while I don't think it's quite as bad as some suggest, it is still quite likely a factor given how his programming skills played into early episodes.

I find that generally pilots in Gundam can be broadly split into three categories: those who rely on pure piloting skill, basically just being quicker on the draw than everyone else and straight outpiloting them (e.g. Shinn, Heero), those who are good because they are exeptionally powerful newtypes (e.g. Judau, Banager), and those who mostly use tricks and tactics (e.g. Uso, Tobia).

Amuro is kind of a perfect storm of all three. Maybe not as good in one area (Kamille and Judau are both more powerful, and some of Tobia's tactical ploys are so bonkers and unconventional they have to be seen to be believed), but still not far off them and good at the other specialties too.

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>>15410571

>those huge mobile armors are for?

Actually those are for a different purpose.

None of those would really benefit from being NJC machines given they're already pretty destructive and effective on their own.

Zamza-Zah is made for attacking ships, the Ghells-Ghe is made for defending installations and the Destroy Gundam is built for mass destruction.

Plus, the primary Mobile Armors used by the Earth Alliance require a whole crew to operate them effectively.

>>15410325
>>15410884
True, the druggies managed to harassed Freedom and Justice many times by working as a team. In the final battle they somehow spread out and isolated from each other. Doubt Yzak can defeat them if they come to him all at once.

>>15412510
>None of those would really benefit from being NJC machines given they're already pretty destructive and effective on their own.
Please tell me how the Destroy Gundam would not benefit from even more power for being destructive, especially since Destroy Gundam is for Extendeds, since Naturals are apparently too weak to do use it proproberly.

On that note, none of those mobile armors you brought up have known powerplants! How the hell can something like Destroy Gundam be powered by batteries? If they can draw that kind of power out of a series of batteries, then who'd give a fuck out about NJCs? (also note that NJC mobile suits are only piloted by main characters)


Look, I'm not saying that everyone should have had NJCs flying around left and right. But if you're going to try and close Pandora's box when the finale of the last conflict in the prior series is that based on the fact that was opened, the least you could do is put a little effort into closing it again, especially if you routinely show that that the EA doesn't give a fuck about human rights or treaties.

Even if we go on the idea that "NCJs are just too much for poor Naturals to handle!", there's the whole issue of them going well out of their way to create people who are really good at piloting. Would it it just be common sense to get these people to pilot NJC mobile suits? Especially in the span of two years when they're advancing their technology?

>>15347723
Thi sis the final hit point before anime went downhill

>>15347723
Destiny ended when Shin killed Kira, before the rise of Jesus Yamato.

>>15412851
AKA it ended when the series was still pretty damn good, before it got pretty damn bad.

>>15412741
Maybe so, but it doesn't say much that he would lose a fight at three-to-one odds against opponents with better equipment.