Naive princess or criminal mastermind?

A thread died for this

>>15315285
Why won't you let people discuss the C.E. in peace? I get that it's bad, but you don't have to post that everytime somebody makes a thread pertaining to SEED and SEED Destiny.

>>15315283

Mastermind princess. The reading of her as a hidden power seeker trying to manipulate pieces to prepare the way for her ascension ignores events (like refusing power when it's initially offered) and is really just people trying to make the character more interesting rather than anything supported in either show.

>>15315285

So what? No thread is sacrosanct and they'd all be pushed off shortly anyways. If they're on page 10, it's for a reason. Whether because they're done, because few people were using them or because they'd past limits. Acting like a thread has to be personally satisfactory to exist is silly.

Her outfit doesn't fit the aesthethic of the show.

>>15315283
>Naive princess or criminal mastermind?

Neither of them. Lacus, according to author's intentions, was a political genius, wise, mature and enlightened. An inspiring symbol of pure truth and justice that Kira could follow blindly.
There is no master plan behind her. The whole story paints Lacus as the good "white princess" of some kind of fairy tale.

Funny thing. Her father was not even a noble, he was just the prime Minister of Zaft. So, this thing of Lacus called princess is literally a crap that they pulled out of their ass in Destiny.

>>15315285
/m/ wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for SEED.

It's more one of those subtle things people talk about. Lacus is constantly putting up a facade, never letting anyone see the real her. You have her stay on the Archangel where plays this helpless little girl, only to throw that off once she returns to the ZAFT ship and uses her savvy to stop an attack on the Archangel. Then you have Athrun's reaction when he meets her in the theater, like he's seeing the real Lacus for the first time.

Then you get into the more questionable stuff. We have her priest friend telling Kira he was found in his prayer garden. Seems simple, right? Except that's not backed up by the flashback (Kira lying in the middle of the road), or the events of Astray. So, Blind Priest and Lacus are lying to Kira about how he came into their possession.

It also doesn't help Blind Priest, according to X Astray, tried to steal the Dreadnought Gundam to provide the EA with it's N-Jammer Canceller. It was to help them with their energy crisis, but the fact is he tried to hand off military secrets to the other party. Then you have Lacus stealing the Freedom and Eternal later on. Seems kinda suspicious.

Then you listen to her speeches while she's playing la resistance in the PLANTS. Telling people they have no reason to fight, urging them to stop the war. Seems nice until you look at the Cosmic Era's backstory and realize the PLANTS are fighting to maintain their independence. The war itself wasn't blind racism.

And all this is during the SEED timeframe. No Destiny, just SEED and it's related materials. Makes one wonder if this was what Fukuda meant when he said only he and his wife understood Lacus.

>>15315599
Every fictional character makes perfect sense in the head of its author. No matter how stupid his actions are.

>>15315283
I want to french kiss her

>>15315599
Nice pasta.

>>15315669
Then you'd be indirectly kissing Kira's cock.

>>15315669
So would I~

>>15315449
That's the greatest sin SEED has ever done

>>15315739

Most people who've kissed anyone have indirectly kissed multiple cocks. When your mother kissed your cheek/forehead you were indirectly touching your dad's cock more than likely. Pointing it out like this is a unique case or a real consideration is pointless.

>>15315694

I just wrote this last week. Wasn't in the mood to write it again.

>>15315739
I wouldn't mind.

>>15315283
She's not a princess, and she's not a criminal, so both are wrong.

What she is, is pretty much Mary Sue

>>15315283

Neither. With more clever writing, there would have been more delving into the idea that Lacus was custom-bred with the intent of succeeding her father and thus had traits that would be useful in a potential future chairman - strong charisma and intellect, a soothing voice, good ability to read people - and it was her choice to put those gifts to use in music instead. She still had the ability to lead and manipulate, but didn't like to use it unless someone like Rau pressed her. There could have been scenes indicating it was something she and her father had clashed over, putting Lacus in a painful position of having to accept a leadership role that she didn't want but felt compelled to take to honor her father's memory.

Instead all we get is a line or two hinting in that direction, back during the first few episodes when the show still had some interest in exploring its premise, and what we got instead was >>15315391.

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>>15315283
Military criminal via sheer stupidity.

The naive princess she's supposed to portrayed as doesn't work because... well, just look at the shows.

She's not a criminal mastermind. That's completely the wrong angle to attack her character. She's not sitting there twirling her mustache in mischief, and there's not even a hint that she's doing that off-handedly.

But she's also not in the standpoint of "What I'm doing is evil but this is something I regrettably must do to defeat an even greater evil," because with the bumbling way her character is written, she never actually gets to the stage of realizing what she's doing is evil or at least morally questionable. When thousands of Coordinator civilians are massacred because she helped Djibril escape Orb, no one on her ship stops for a second to notice the blood on their own hands and say "Oh my God, what have we done?" "Oh shit, we're partially to blame for this." "Could we have done things differently to prevent this?" and so forth. They all just stay on their delusional high horse ranting about how Durandal HAD to have manipulated all of this, even though that makes no logical sense even if Durandal himself is evil. He can't psychically control Cagalli to act like a retard to get her own country invaded, and Lacus's side willfully ignored all chances to reason with ZAFT while the invasion was occurring. They just see it as soulless evil ZAFT invading their infallible motherland on false pretenses, and several Plants end up getting nuked and paying the price for their hypernationalism.

By all conventional definition, though, Lacus is guilty of massive atrocities against the human race regardless of her motives / who she thinks goaded her into war in the process.

>>15315283
those fucking eyes...

>>15317020
You throw in the mess that is Terminal.

Okay, so between the shows Lacus wasn't just looking after orphans while Kira slept in his own room (I like to believe it's because he asked Lacus to wear a Flay wig and choke him like "the filthy coordinator" he was, and Lacus thought it was weird. Meanwhile, Kira refused to indulge her and dress up like Basara), she apparently founded a spy network. This spy network, with disillusioned members of both ZAFT and the EA, places it's members in every faction they can. Said members then proceed to steal information and leak it not to the public, but instead to leaders of other factions.

Wouldn't that worsen relations between factions, as well as giving them reasons to build up their own forces? All she's going to do is breed distrust between nations. Explain to me how this is smart.

And let's not forget, Terminal steals mobile suits for their own usage including ones equipped with technology banned by treaty. ZAFT actually buried the Strike Freedom in order to comply with the Junius Treaty, and team Lacus stole it while deleting any data pertaining to it.

=

>>15315982
>Neither. With more clever writing, there would have been more delving into the idea that Lacus was custom-bred with the intent of succeeding her father and thus had traits that would be useful in a potential future chairman - strong charisma and intellect, a soothing voice, good ability to read people - and it was her choice to put those gifts to use in music instead. She still had the ability to lead and manipulate, but didn't like to use it unless someone like Rau pressed her. There could have been scenes indicating it was something she and her father had clashed over, putting Lacus in a painful position of having to accept a leadership role that she didn't want but felt compelled to take to honor her father's memory.

Holy shit I didn't know I wanted this. It gives her a legitimate cause to clash with Durandal in Destiny as well.

>>15317020

The second battle of Orb really was the pinnacle of the shows stupidity. It existed solely because only 4 Gundam's were left and they needed a Gundam battle between Kira and Athrun and Shinn and Rey, regardless of the sense it made.

>>15317263
Terminal in general is a headache to figure out from the audience's POV. When the show was airing, it was only passingly mentioned by name a handful of times, with the most obvious implication being it was Lacus's personal intelligence network. But it's not completely clear if it's her personal network because the show is written so buttfuck incompetently (as previously stated) and they never try to explain it.

And then after the show ended there were apparently magazine articles(?) or model manuals(?) that were trying to turn Terminal into this more benign thing by saying that no, Terminal is *only* an information network that aren't religiously infatuated with following Lacus's orders. They're a third party that happens to agree with the Clynes during Destiny's timeframe.

But then Bandai has apparently un-retconned it in later years by taking away all pretenses and straight up saying they ARE her personal faction and they're directly organized by her. She just happens to have a massive world-dominating spy network for no reason. I don't know. The Gundam Wiki keeps changing every time I check it and I have no idea what their sources are.

Were are the lewds at

>>15317338
Seems like the Clynes have their own CTR, complete with Kira evangelists.
Even IRL.

>>15317338
I think they change the story based on what the reception stands.

Basically, people were in love with Lacus after the show ended so Terminal leaves a sort of black spot on her reputation. What is it? How is it creating MS for her use? Why does it's members seemingly follow her without question? The information they were giving was meant to help address these issues.

Few years later, things change. Suzumura gets popular and says in interviews that Shinn originally wasn't supposed to be the bad guy. People still have questions about Terminal and SEED's popularity has waned somewhat. Not to mention 00s1 kinda highlighted how in reality, Team Archangel's action would be far more gray than Destiny portrayed them as. So they come up with a different explanation to retcon in, playing into the interpretation that Lacus was pulling the strings in some fashion.

Either that or people who didn't particularly like her got into Bandai and began pushing their headcanon.

It's kinda like how they replaced the Impulse with the Strike Freedom in the opening titles while Shinn falls to third in the end titles, signifying Kira as the real hero of the story. Come the compilation movies, they begin pushing that Athrun was really the main character the whole time instead of Shinn. Years later when they release the HD Remaster they begin pushing Shinn as the hero of the story. Granted, with that last one I sometimes think they're trying to distance Kira from Destiny.

>>15317338

Terminal was a blatant retcon is what it was solely created because Lacus needed a way to make SF and IJ.

Initially team Lacus says they're understaffed under equipped and relying on the few things they had from Seed that weren't totally destroyed, and while one of them is the Freedom, all they have to back it up one Orb grunt unit, the horribly outdated by now Strike Rouge (until Ootori was a thing years later) and they've even got the Skygrasper of all things.

And all they can do is basically hide underwater and intercept communications from Orb military (because AA knows the channels being part of it) for info, and Andy only comes up with the idea to hijack Meer's shuttle because he just happens to catch a commercial for an appearance at a place he knows is near a Zaft base on tv.

Come 10 episodes later, and suddenly they're being fed a constant stream of info from this Terminal thing and Lacus has her own MS factory hidden in space, and her own secret pilot squadron.

>>15317605
>Terminal was a blatant retcon is what it was solely created because Lacus needed a way to make SF and IJ.

Mirialla mentions getting information from "the Terminal" way back when she was still a relevant character in the first 10 or 20 episodes of Destiny. It was always part of the script. They just never elaborate on it, ever.

VAGINA

BONES

>>15317630

That's in episode 27, well after the AA has been running around for 13 episodes without any apparant direction from them.

That's also the only actual mention of Terminal by name in the whole show.

>>15315756
Well if we wanna go there we technically came out of our father's cocks anyways.
That's gayer than anything.

I believe that Lacus and Kira will be terribly boring at bed. Only vanilla sex and probably, Lacus has never kissed Kira dick.

>>15318299
Vanilla sex is best sex.

>>15318302
it's more fun when even the girls are having fun too and taking the initiative. I bet Lacus would be like a wooden statue. Kira will spend the rest of his life to the dream about his unique night of sex with Flay.

>>15318320
>>15318320
>Flayfag headcanon
Please kill yourself.

>>15318320
If Lacus is as manipulative as people keep memeing she is then his sex with her would be better then Flay.

>>15318367

Lacus didn't need to use sex to manipulate people. She just commanded and people obeyed.

>>15317515
>Granted, with that last one I sometimes think they're trying to distance Kira from Destiny.

I find that unlikely since they almost always push SF over Freedom or Strike the majority of the time.

>>15319973
They didn't use the HD version to change the Gundam in OP3 and 4 titles to Destiny.
All of the animation touchups in the HD ending went to SF and IJ.
They completely removed Destiny from the HD final episode via splitting Final Plus into a 2-parter.

I don't know what that anon is talking about. Strike Freedom is more prevalent than ever in the newer versions of GSD.

>>15315391

Lacus and her perfect princess mary sueness seems to entirely be a Morosawa thing.

Cross Ange, which is Fukuda without the Morosawa notably lacks a princess figure that isn't notably flawed in some way, even though it contains some of Seed's other odd Fukudaism's like a perfect utopian totally Not-Japan world, and a Kira like self insert male character, although Tusk at least has far more character to him than Kira does.

Even the villain basically shares Durandal's viewpoints about humanity and how to lead them, except without Morosawa writing they actually remembered to show why he's the villain beyond him opposing the protagonists so that automatically makes him the devil.

>>15321450

I find it kind of funny that people often decry how blunt and simplistic Gundam is as well as how shitty Destiny is, but Murosawa making Durandal's villainy a tiny bit subtle by not putting big exclamation points on everything he does is then decried as not making Durandal an obvious enough villain. Even the Gundam theft in episode one basically has to be by his arrangement given that the Phantom Pain trio have a base escort and key codes as well as full info on the 3 Gundams but none on the Impulse, which just happens to be someplace else and it's pilot just happens to be going on duty as the theft is going down. Destiny is still a boring to outright bad show for most of it's run, but Durandal's villainy not being obvious enough isn't the reason why.

>>15321516
See, you're filling in blanks. It's not that it wasn't flat out said that Durandal was a villain. It's that we never see him do anything evil until long after he's considered a villain. Seed Destiny expects us to believe everything Lacus says without second guessing her. Lacus did far more shady shit than Durandal. Phantom Pain getting escorts could have easily been spies who infiltrated ZAFT just for that operation. No one even hints at how they got info on the Gundams. The ZAFT team in Seed knew about ORB and the EA collaborating. Shinn was off duty when Phantom Pain arrived. He even ran into Stellar and accidentally groped her.

>>15321450
>Cross Ange, which is Fukuda without the Morosawa notably lacks a princess figure that isn't notably flawed in some way

Ange is pretty much perfect though.

>>15321528
>He even ran into Stellar and accidentally groped her.
What a hero.

>>15321528

How is pointing out things that are in the actual first episode and how they're way too coincidental to not be arranged filling in blanks? While Phantom Pain's escorts could have been spies if taken on it's own the fact that Shinn was due to come on duty and his unit just happened to be stored someplace else while being the one thing Phantom Pain don't have data on is just way too much to buy as coincidence. The show doesn't have to have characters talk about there being no other possible cause or explanation to qualify as a hint. Those things on their own are hints. Also, Shinn is off duty when the Phantom Pain trio are walking around the city, but he talks about needing to get back because he's due to go on duty. And he's just coming on duty when the theft takes place.

>>15321576
Shinn wasn't due to go on duty. He nor anyone said that. The only thing Shinn says in that episode aside from the flashback was sorry to Stellar for groping her, asking his friend to stop teasing him for it and his lines at the end of the episode about them wanting another war. Talia even asked where he was when the attack happened. The Impulse was stored on the Minerva because the Minerva has the special catapult system it uses. You're not only filling in blanks you're making shit up too.

>>15315283
Palpatine

>>15320516
It's just a lot of the time I see Kira marketed with the Freedom to represent SEED, while Shinn and the Destiny Gundam are used to represent Destiny.

>>15321531

Yes but she's also a massively grumpy bitch and the show makes no attempts to downplay her personality flaws or mistakes.

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>>15321576
>How is pointing out things that are in the actual first episode

Because you're cluelessly full of shit and none of those things are in the actual episode.

The Nu Drug Trio having apparent ZAFT escorts inside the base doesn't magically mean they must be actual escorts specifically planted there by Durandal to secretly manipulate the world into his palm. They could simply be spies or double agents like the other Anon said.

Durandal doesn't make a "Mwahaha I plotted this" face when he's watching Impulse at the end of Phase 1. The expression he gives can be read as anything. If you back off of your forced conclusions for a second, you'll see it could be as simple as "Okay, you killed my people and caught me off guard, but here's the real power to show you I won't go down easily." Why aren't you saying Murrue must be pure evil too based on every time she makes her stubborn stock footage grimace face at the camera when her character is placed in similar situations?

Shinn coincidentally being elsewhere during the Gundamjacking is just that: A coincidence. Just like how the very last show before this started with Kira coincidentally being in the same colony as another top secret Gundam project and he just happened to be around to hop in Strike Gundam and fight off the invaders. You'd never make the argument that this MUST be proof Uzumi is secretly a villainous mastermind who planned the invasion and colluded to set Kira up at the right place at the right time, because it doesn't fit your one-sided view of the narrative.

None of these things painted Durandal as being evil until the writers changed their minds in the middle of the script who the main cast was and they scrambled to retroactively make him evil in the last 15ish episodes. Kira fans are seriously too delusional to see the idiocy in their own arguments.

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>>15323701
I always knew he was behind everything!

>>15323701
>until the writers changed their minds in the middle of the script who the main cast was and they scrambled to retroactively make him evil in the last 15ish episodes
The Coordinator assassination team was well before the last 15 eps, anon.

>>15325023
>The Coordinator assassination team

He said evil, not heroic.

Lacus was the best person to lead in the messed up world that was the Cosmic Era despite all her flaws.

All the other leaders were insane, not cut out to lead or went full retard.

>>15323701
>None of these things painted Durandal as being evil until the writers changed their minds in the middle of the script who the main cast was and they scrambled to retroactively make him evil in the last 15ish episodes.
>>15325023
>The Coordinator assassination team was well before the last 15 eps, anon.

The problem is that, outside of the attempted hit on Lacus (and the associated BS with Meer), Durandal doesn't actually do anything evil until 'lolz destiny plan tiem'. Then suddenly he points TWO WMDs at Earth, and tells them to get onboard or else, despite being incredibly diplomatic beforehand.

You could argue Durandal was just pretending to be nice until he had his pieces in place for global checkmate, but there's still the rest of ZAFT. The Minerva crew don't do anything evil at all until they attack Kira in EP34, and even that is HIGHLY arguable given Kira's previous actions in relation to the ship.

>>15325023
You're pulling excuses out of your ass again. A group of rando mercs that were never actually established to be Coordinators outside of Andy's one line of speculation and a website update one month before the show ended, and were never established to be personally sent by Durandal in any animated media (ever) does not show that Durandal was always written to be evil.

>>15327186
"lolz destiny plan tiem" and WMDs is the FIRST time Durandal does something considerably evil, and even then it's an escalated reaction to LOGOS genocide / endless Archangel terrorism. The Meer thing is shifty but can easily be rationalized through Durandal not knowing where to find the real Lacus and needing a Lacus around to keep any kind of peace in PLANT.

Even during the first and only time Kira actually confronts Durandal with his "herp dee derp my ideals vs. your ideals" speech he never actually accuses Durandal on-screen of the assassination attempt, which boggles my mind with how much the writers were trying to throw out to say "See? See? The ZAFT characters were always supposed to be unlikable shitheads with nothing valuable to say!" You figure that's the first thing the writers would try to make a shitfit out of.

>>15325410
>All the other leaders were insane, not cut out to lead or went full retard.

And Lacus is no better alternative when she's guilty of all three of those things.

>>15327715
>A group of rando mercs that were never actually established to be Coordinators outside of Andy's one line of speculation

If they weren't coordinators they wouldn't be able to use Zaft suits (yes I know MSV has like one natural that can but she's insanely skilled, these guys are scrubs).

That should never have been in doubt. The only doubt was whether they were with Durandal, or the Junius Seven terrorists.

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>>15315283
An avatar of Satan himself and the Messianic Antichrist of the Jews together with Kira. Gog and Magog. The Whore of Babylon atop the Beast.

SEED Destiny is a much better allegory to the end of days than Evajellyun could ever hope to be.

>>15327727
>If they weren't coordinators they wouldn't be able to use Zaft suits (yes I know MSV has like one natural that can but she's insanely skilled, these guys are scrubs).

The EA had long since developed an OS that naturals could use. Plus the guys blew themselves up, so it would be impossible to tell what OS they were using.

>>15327715
>and a website update one month before the show ended

Which was right around the time the show finally had Durandal start acting evil outright. That's probably why.

>>15327857
I remember Kira specifically helping Orb write the 'mobile suits for dummies i mean naturals' OS back in SEED. Is the EA's version based on the Orb version, or did the EA stop sucking at tech long enough to write a separate OS themselves?

>>15327715
>The Meer thing is shifty but can easily be rationalized through Durandal not knowing where to find the real Lacus and needing a Lacus around to keep any kind of peace in PLANT.
I wonder if Lacus staying in the PLANTs and aligning with Durandal would've avoided most of the war.
Gil talks peace and co-existence, Lacus agrees, they form a political alliance, Kira is brought on board and integrated into ZAFT. No assassination attempt, no Meer, Athrun is more willing tojoin in, and maybe Shinn gets a better mentor.
If Gil pushes the Destiny Plan, Lacus and her supporters split off into another faction like at the end of SEED.

Of course, the execs didn't want Destiny to focus on Kira/Lacus, so they have to fuck off to the orphanage and not fix anything for two years.

>>15327943
i don't think we'll ever know

>>15327943
If Kira did accomplish writing the OS, chances are that its source-code must've been maintained and refined by EA.

>>15327715
>The Meer thing is shifty but can easily be rationalized through Durandal not knowing where to find the real Lacus and needing a Lacus around to keep any kind of peace in PLANT.

True, but it's pretty fucking odd that right after a fake Lacus appears, ZAFT mobile suits show up to kill her after the assassins fail. And why the fake Lacus anyway, why not build up some new star instead in the two or so years that Lacus is gone? Lacus could have immediately show up on television after Meer's debut and ruined the whole goddamn thing.

It's baffling, because this guy is supposed to be a genius, but this like an amateur move

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwYsuvpEXBo
pretty much sums up my lacus theory

>>15328076
Actually, it'd make more sense to kill Lacus before debuting Meer. That way Lacus can't interfere. Lacus being alive and Durandal debuting Meer points to it not being him. The reason he used Lacus was because CE is full of morons who for some reason worship Lacus. Not just as a singer but a political figure. Her father was popular in the PLANTS. Wasn't he chairman up until his death or something?

>>15328076
I'm not sure who's more stupid: Durandal, for spending two years setting up a fake Lacus that could very easily be exposed by the real one, or Lacus for now exposing the fake straight away.
I guess someone at Sunrise really wanted a reason for 'Lacus, but with bigger tits'.

>>15328118
>Wasn't he chairman up until his death or something?


Yep, he was just a chairman, nothing more.

>>15328148

He was more actually. He's the one that established the Clyne Faction, and if not for being killed by the soldiers sent by Zala would have been the one commanding the TSA in theory. Lacus just inherited it after his death.

The Freedom theft was masterminded by him, Lacus just carried it out.

>>15329503
That's what I call a bust.

>>15328118
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
It wouldn't really cost that much money to build up your own idol and a fake Lacus, and use one or both, depending on how things go. Clearly, one wouldn't have the same cult following that a fake Lacus does, but at the very least, her very presence wouldn't be ruined by the real one showing up and talking shit.

I mean, Meer appeared before the hit on Lacus did. What if Lacus made some calls before then?
Or shit, after the failed assassination attempt, what if they caught all that shit on flim and uploaded it to BlueEarthTube, and saying "HEY, SOMEONE TRIED TO KILL US AND THEY GOT ZAFT MOBILE SUITS!" All signs are going to point to Gilbert, How is he going to horseshit his way out of that?

I get that in a written piece of work, it's easy to discuss all of the possibilities a character didn't choose, and that people don't always choose the best option.
But here, we're supposed to believe that Gilbert is a genius, but you'd think that the Sticky Bandits were behind the hit on Lacus. I don't think it would have been too hard to grab some EA mobile suits and make it look like some jerkass Naturals going after Lacus just because they can.

>>15323926
Who knew he could hide a gold-plated Gundam just for his daughter that he never told her about until after he blew up his own island?

Bitching about filling in the blanks with SEED makes you a hypocrite if you consider Kamilles uhh.. Situation to have influence on Chars behavior in CCA, which I'm sure most of us have headcannoned in some form

>>15330092
Who knows what other treasure hes hiding?

>>15325023
See, normally I would stay out of conversations like this. But your right.I really liked Seed, I liked Kira and Lacus most of all. But seeing what they did in destiny just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. They could of done so much more with that universe, but it happened this way instead.

I still like the characters, and wish they got a supporting roll, instead of being the main characters half way through.

>>15331509
I don't like to use this meme, but you're projecting a bit much there.

>>15331509

Fukuda gets no mercy, while Tomino's made stuff that people geniunely like so they're willing to cut him lack.

That's about it. If anyone else but Fukuda did Cross Ange it would probably be ranked as ok to decent if a little stupid, but since it's a Fukuda work it's shit and worse than Destiny, and we should be glad his wife is dead and all that.

>>15331759
such a sad truth. They were tolerable in SEED. Destiny however, is when you'd hit yourself and ask: "Are they really that stupid? Everything they did was irresponsible"


They could've had them piece together what is happening behind the scenes AND THEN act when they've gathered enough information!

>>15331841
I agree. Also, if they could get strike gundam up in space with solid rocket boosters, why didn't they do that with Freedom to help stop the Junis 7 drop? They knew it was coming, as massive things like that take time to move through space, but they let it happen regardless?

>>15331855
They were still minor characters in the beginning. You can't have the old cast stealing all the spotlight.

>>15324890
best girl

>>15331509
I never made that headcanon.
>>15331830
It's not like Tomino hasn't been behind stuff that nobody watched or nobody liked. I've been hearing people talk shit about Garzey's Wing since I first got into animu communities.

The difference is that Tomino hasn't been behind the kind of disaster that Fukuda has been. You could say "man, that sucks!" towards something like Garzey's Wing or Brain Powered, because they're new, experimental, different weird shows. The kind of shows that just pass or fail, with seldom falling between.
Fukuda was behind making a sequel to a Gundam series, the one that revived the franchise for the new era. With plenty of budget and hype behind it, this show should have been fantastic.

Except, it wasn't. After the steam of the first 10 or so episodes goes by, everything ends up going By-The-Numbers. More of the typical digital animation to make reusing stock footage easier. The series doesn't really go much of anywhere, and then hapazardly decides that now is the time to switch main characters, and we result in a final battle with no tension and even embarrassingly uses stock footage from the final battle of the last series! The new old main characters pose for the camera, and we look at the wreckage of the newer characters crying on the moon, and that's it.
The final battle was so rushed, they had to have it fixed like 2-3 different times, and that STILL isn't enough to salvage it.

I loved Fukuda's prior work, GEAR Fighter Dendoh, but if I somehow managed to win the lottery and could fund a sequel, I'd still be wary of putting him in charge of it, honestly.

>>15331855

Junius Seven pretty much entirely took place in a matter of hours, the entire crew was split up, and all their stuff was stored away. It would have been long over before they could do anything.

When it was time to launch the Strike they were already in their secret dock with AA there and the mechanics and everyone on site.

>>15331855
Getting the Freedom into space doesn't really solve any problems. For one the Freedom doesn't have enough firepower to stop it. Second, there are too many pieces (hundreds or thousands) that the Freedom or even the METEOR cannot deal with any more than a small percentage, because by the time people on Earth know about it, the Junius 7 fragments are already in the atmosphere (the episode ended with them descending to earth). Third, hitting a rock doesn't do much but split it into smaller rocks. Unless they can turn each rock into dust or something small enough to burn up, then all they're doing is just increasing the number of impacts in turn for a smaller impact.

You'd need an entire army if you wanted to break up so much stuff in so little time. Like when everyone temporarily stopped fighting in 00S2 to protect the city by shooting up all of the orbital elevator panels.

>>15331919
>Unless they can turn each rock into dust or something small enough to burn up, then all they're doing is just increasing the number of impacts in turn for a smaller impact.

To be fair, that's still the better option then the whole thing. It's why I'm confused why NASA insists they won't ever do this in real life if an actual planet collision is detected.

Yes getting hit with a shotgun blast of tiny meteors will be pretty bad and probably wreck every country and kills tons of people, but that's STILL better than an extinction level impact that will bring about an ice age.

>>15331890

Destiny wasn't THAT important. Yes it was bad, but one stinker in a career of 2 okish shows (Ange and Seed) and several other ones like Dendoh and whatever that racing show was that was seemingly great from what I've heard doesn't make Fukuda the worst anime person ever. That's an 80 percent sucess rate actually.

>>15332012
I mean, I'd rather watch Gundam SEED Destiny than say, Dancougar Nova or Great Dangaioh, but I can't help but see screwing up a Gundam series more of a bigger blunder than I do a stand alone series, especially with all the mistakes the series made.

I don't like the characters in Dancougar Nova for the most part, but never at any point did I feel like they were being closeted, thrown out, or just changing personalities just because it was the easier thing to do.
I had a feeling Great Dangaioh wasn't going to be good about 2-3 episodes in, but I didn't see the series take the wild turns GSD did because they didn't know what they were doing.

I don't know, maybe it's just personal for me, because GSD was the first series I watched as it was airing.

>>15331993
Because it's one of those morality dilemmas that they don't want to have to make a decision for. It means consciously choosing to fuck over a larger number of people, if it's not a civilization ending impact. They're scientists. If anything, these decisions would be made by the US president.

Maybe also because NASA doesn't have any weapons, just launch vehicles. Defense would be the duty of the military.

Also maybe because nuclear weapons don't work well in space, and they just don't make an asteroid or meteor disappear either.

File: 250px-Comparative_nuclear_fireball_sizes.png (24KB, 250x257px) Image search: [Google]

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>>15331993
It's probably similar logic that 100x500kt nukes will do vastly more damage then a single 50mt one

File: F15S_MTD.jpg (39KB, 396x288px) Image search: [Google]

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>>15332160
>Maybe also because NASA doesn't have any weapons
Yeah, but if they had the means/desire to militarize, they'd have a good starting platform. It's even in Gundam colors!

>>15332309
Huh? But that unit (serial 71-0290) probably doesn't even have weapons systems on it. It didn't carry any weapons at any point in its life and was used as a testbed for maneuverability upgrades. Also,

>sloppy seconds from USAF

>>15315283

Most of the Orb fuckery in Destiny was all Cagalli (and at one point Kira's) idea In fact alot of it happened without Lacus being on board. Even when she was there the worst she did was not try stop them.

She did send some support for when Djbril was there, but that was still mostly Cagalli's failings to manage her country to find him. All Lacus did was provide the means to stalemate Shinn.

Now if you want a better example of Lacus's negative actions look back at Seed and her not even trying to help Flay when she was in the pod. Once they know it's her in there she almost immediately orders them to leave the area, and while everyone looks concerned, even Athrun who'd never met Flay, Lacus is stone cold about the whole thing. She doesn't even consider trying to recover her.

>>15315283
If she's a criminal mastermind, what does that make Lowe Gear? He's directly responsible, if not at least had a hand in pretty much the biggest and most important pieces of tech in the entire franchise.

>>15327834
I am never going to get over how absolutely soul-piercing the SEED artstyle eyes are. Jesus christ, it's like staring into the abyss.

>>15332861
Useful idiot?

>>15317263
>ZAFT actually buried the Strike Freedom in order to comply with the Junius Treaty, and team Lacus stole it while deleting any data pertaining to it.

Interestingly the latest model kit manual retcon says that Zaft kept working on SF despite the treaty, and that's why Terminal stole and deleted the data on it, only completing it when war broke out again and they needed something to replace the first Freedom.

Which I know because the last several model kits have had an english translation in their manuals for some reason (what's up with that btw? When did that become a thing)

Admittedly this is the like the 5th retcon to establish SF's origin.

>>15332037
>than say, Dancougar Nova or Great Dangaioh
Literal garbage? Such a high bar.

>>15337063
I also noticed that. But goddamn, they're really cleaning up Lacus, that's for sure. But if Strike Freedom was designed earlier, does the new origin make it older than Destiny?

>>15337310

The actual SF is widely different from the earlier Zaft design being customized for Kira specifically to pilot it and having the latest Zaft PS and engine and dragoon system installed.

In fact I'm not even sure why they're insisting that anything had to be stolen from Zaft after the first war at all, and they could easily just have it be a newer version of Freedom Terminal built from scratch using data from the old one and data from the latest Zaft Gundam's.