What are mecha equivalent of tank destroyer?

>>15302552
Probably melee-focused mecha, actually. Melee's good against other mecha, but not particularly practical against other targets. It's hard to take out a base with a sword.

>>15302552
Daddy Jagdpanther <3

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Snipers

Just like real life tank destroyers, snipers in gundumb are repurposed versions of regular suits, sometimes outdated suits that have been given a second life as snipers.

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>>15302603
Sexy isn't it?

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>>15302552
Piles.

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>>15302552

A mecha destroyer.

>>15302868
Why are tanks in Gundam look so shitty?

>>15302552
>What are mecha equivalent of tank destroyer?

mecha destroyer!

/thread

>>15302552
>tank destroyer
>it's a tank

fucking real life is so stupid sometimes

>>15303955
they're literally not tanks. they're self-propelled guns that happen to have a lot of armor on it.

>>15302868
why even bother with GMs when they could just produce a million more of these dream machines?

>>15303955
that's like complaining that the best anti-MS weapon is a better MS

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>>15304000

>>15304000
Isn't that what a fucking tank is? What is a tank then?

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>>15304000
>has cannon turret and threads
>literally not tanks

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>>15304015
>turret

What? i doesn't has a turret.

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>>15304000
>>15304026
explain this then

>>15304042
They're Americans, what do you expect?

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and this?

>>15304000

Tank destroyers are just tanks specifically designed to counter other tanks. Assault Guns and Tank Destroyers have special terms because they have specific purposes while the archetypical tank is multirole, especially in the age of MBTs
If you want to sidestep all the autism, just refer to everything as AFVs

>>15304070
Isn't English the only language that makes this stupid distinction? Everyone else just has one word for all AFVs.

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There isn't really any clear distinction between what is a TD and what is a tank.
Sure stuff like the Jagdpanther were definitely TDs, but then you got stuff like this, which is a MBT.

>>15304085
>Isn't English the only language that makes this stupid distinction?
Jagdpanzer and Sturmgeschütz are english words? What part of Chasseur de char is in english?

>>15304070
>Tank destroyers are just tanks specifically designed to counter other tanks.

Calling a tank destroyer a tank is a terrible faux-pas. Anyone that knows anything about armored vehicles will cringe to hear you talk about TDs like this.

>>15304177
I don't usually, and I should have but 'just vehicles' instead of 'just tanks', but in the end the major differences between a tank and a TD are based on role, and also I guess that usually tanks have treads, a turret, and full armor while a TD typically only has 2 of those.

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A tank is a multi-role, heavily armored, well armed armored vehicle on tracks, with a turret(s) mounting a cannon(s), along with machine guns.

A tank destroyer is made for the extremely specialized purpose of destroying tanks and armored vehicles, nothing else.

>>15304042
That is not a tank, it is a tank destroyer.
The M18 Hellcat has very little armor, it can be destroyed with .50 cals, it's sole purpose is to used the extreme speed granted by it's light weight to flank German armored vehicles and pierce their weaker rear/side armor.


>>15304138
The STRV 103 is not a main battle tank, it fills the role of a very high performance tank destroyer, it's only meant to be used defensively, don't let them lie to you, they simply called it a main battle tank because it made them feel badass when they we're still using an outdated concept.

>>15302552

Well, I've seen this comparison made:

> Comparing the Mobile Armour with World War II war machines, it is laying in the same position as the Tank Destroyers. Minimizing the weight of the turret and installing larger calibre guns, their main objectives are countering newer enemy tanks; while Mobile armours are mainly designed to counter enemy new mobile suits, which is the main battle weapon in space.

That only applies to the Universal Century however.

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>>15304193
>A tank destroyer is made for the extremely specialized purpose of destroying tanks and armored vehicles, nothing else.

Sometimes they end up being accidently amazing in other areas.

>>15302552
Tanks
Type 61 Tank
RTX-44
RTX-65
Missile:
M101A3 Regina

mines, snipers, IED. etc etc. there is ton of it

>>15303955
>it's a tank
It's not. They often even operated in different chain of command as artillery batteries.

>>15303955
Not always.

>>15304014
>Isn't that what a fucking tank is?
A tank is a vehicle to break through enemy lines while providing fire support to artillery. A tank destroyer is a vehicle to destroy enemy tanks. They were armed by different guns and by that point are an obsolete class.

>>15304749
Just like ZSU-23-4s.

>>15302552
>What are mecha equivalent of tank destroyer?

A tank destroyer that transforms into a robot.

>>15304749
That the thing that just shredded jungles with flechette rounds?

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>>15304749
>Six 105mm recoilless rifles.

They should have made more of those.

>>15302597
>It's hard to take out a base with a sword.

You're not using a big enough sword then.

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>>15304891
And blew apart enemy fortifications and knocked down buildings. It turned out to be a crazy good infantry support all around.

>>15304920
It's a damn shame that its one real flaw was that to reload you had to get out and do it manually.

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>>15304941
Didn't they have to aim the damn things using the 50 cal?

>>15304941

I think the Ontos was so effective they're still using it 1000 years in the future in Battletech.

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>>15302552

Well MS IGLOO 2 Gundam had this if it counts:

https://youtu.be/xdQpP53fY1Y?t=134

Not sure what this particular bit of lunacy is, but it seems to be extremely effective.

>>15304970
That was because a normal optical sight wasn't exactly useful.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotting_rifle

>Spotting rifles were most commonly used with recoilless rifles as anti-tank artillery, from the 1950s to the 1970s. These weapons are used for direct fire with line-of-sight visibility to the target. As recoilless rifles have a relatively low muzzle velocity and thus a high trajectory, accurate ranging is important[2] An optical sight can measure the bearing to a target, but not easily or accurately measure the range. Optical rangefinders were too large for lightweight portable artillery, and the later development of laser rangefinders would in turn make spotting rifles obsolete.

Also the Ontos' gun barrels weren't lined up with the centre of the turret, so that was another reason why the barrels had the spotting rifles attached to them.

Megatron

>>15304003

GMs can fly and go into space.

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>>15304003

Unless the war is won in space, the tank means very little with things like Colony Lasers floating about and what not.

Also, keep in mind when it comes to the power of a Mobile Armor, no tank what so ever is going to likely stop it.

Especially when the Mobile Armor is the kind that can destroy a city and it's defenders well before it's in range of their weapons.

>>15307025
>>15310331
>not jettisoning hundreds upon hundreds of tanks into space and just letting loose with the anti-mech cannons like a cloud of retarded flak bees

>>15310997
>Using tanks for dakka when mobile suit sized machine guns exist

>>15311158
there's a difference between one big gun and a cloud of hundreds of smaller guns

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>>15311166
Hundreds of smaller guns that take five seconds between shots VS dozens of 500+ RPM machine guns.

Zaku machine guns can even have their cartridges' bullets replaced with scattershot shells.

Mobile suits have the superior dakka cloud, feddie scum.

>>15304805
realism is stupid it's the cancer of /m/

>>15311191
>scattershot shells
tank cloud is like a scattershot if each shot of the scattershot scattered shots
tank cloud win zaku piggu go homu

>>15303955
You could argue that a better term would be destroyer tank but TDs are super specialized to destroy other tanks. Some lack even basic machine guns to defend against infantry. The german Elefant, for example, knocked out enemy tanks left and right but was eventually swarmed by soviet infantry.

>>15311282
Well, there is a small problem with recoil sending the tanks ass over teakettle.

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Schrek PPC Carrier.

>>15311914
recoil means they move without rockets, save on fuel, tanks win

>>15311942
But that also means they're perpetually running away

also, tanks don't have rockets.

>>15312004
>also, tanks don't have rockets.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv0qg7zrjl4

>>15312057
those are jet engines

>>15312004
then run away so far you wrap around and flank enemy from behind, you simply cannot comprehend tank tactics mechfag, they are on another level

>>15312083
You're not getting the concept of perpetual here.

>>15310997

The Earth Federation didn't have that kind of time.

You really have to weigh your options when you're fighting a foe crazy enough to turn a living habitat in orbit into a super weapon.

>>15304160
>Chasseur de char
>Char hunter

>>15310997

They tried that with the Ball.

It didn't really work.

>>15313015
>federation had ball
>federation wins
>zeon had no ball
>zeon lose
HMMMMMM

>>15313271
Federation dropped the Ball (figuratively) after they got GMs. And even before they were used alongside ships to Intensify Forward Firepower.

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>>15302552

>>15313271

Zeon had an equivalent of the Ball.

Also, the Ball had a poor track record of suitability.

The rate at which they lost the things was horrendous.

>>15313311
The Ball didn't show up until after the GM, what are you smoking?
Just watch A Baoa Qu, there are Balls errywhere.

>>15313325
Yeah, but the EF has enough people that they can use Zapp Brannigan tactics.

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>>15313325
>The rate at which they lost the things was horrendous.
and yet they still win
URAAAAAAA

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>>15313325
>Low-quality Zeke propaganda

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>>15313271
Zeon tried to make Balls. They actually did a good job of it, truth be told.

The Oggo has a larger target profile, but on-paper stats wise, it was a pretty damn good budget fighter, especially fluff-wise since it was made with Zaku II parts (and for every outdated Zaku NOT made, they could produce two Oggos).
As well, it actually has a very good and modular armament compared to the hard-linked weaponry of the Ball.

However, like everything Zeon does, it was too little, too late. They didn't have enough Oggos, and they had not enough trained pilots by A Baoa Qu.

>>15313271
>federation wins

Because they has GUNDAMUUU m8, and millions of other copies.

Balls exist as battlefield decorations.

>>15313396
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0B5s8XRnlU
The Oggo is a good suicide machine. A fully equipped one is actually more heavily armed than the standard Zaku or Dom since it has a multi-launcher AND its machine gun.

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>>15313345
>>15313347

Yes, but the rate of attrition can be a bit of a morale issue.

And number of people hardly matters when your opponent can mow them down practically faster than you can train them (I believe there is a comment in IGLOO about Federation soldiers having a shorter training regimen than the group before them did).

Also, the Ball alone would not have won them the war. I'd like to see how many Balls they'd lose trying to fight I-field equipped Mobile Armors and Mobile Suits.


>>15313396

> it was made with Zaku II parts

Didn't they also build the Apsalus I Mobile Armor they tried to destroy Jaburo with out of Zaku II parts?

>>15313439
>I'd like to see how many Balls they'd lose trying to fight I-field equipped Mobile Armors and Mobile Suits.
>attach beam sword to ball
>fire laser dicked balls at bad man
>can't shoot down all the balls
>one gets through like mighty sperm attaching to egg
>engine detonates
ball win

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>>15313441

Except many space capable Mobile Armors and Mobile Suits can easily evade a ball, out pace one at range and out maneuver one.

>>15313453
too many ball to kill or avoid
either wear yourself out and die or retreat
ball win

>>15313441

That doesn't solve the issue of the Ball only being usable in Space and having no terrestrial use, like say underwater.

>>15313439
I don't the Apsalus I and II were ever intended for actual combat, but rather were testbed units for the flight and weapon systems.

>>15313468
orbital ball drops; give them gundam's magic fire blankie and just crater into the enemy

>>15313439
>how many Balls they'd lose trying to fight I-field equipped Mobile Armors
...Uh, if you phrase it like that, not many?
I-Fields only work against beam weaponry.

Balls are equipped with cheaper solid projectile weaponry, like machine guns or its trademark recoilless cannon. Which also penetrate I-Fields like air.

I-Field mobile armors are WEAK against massed fire from Balls, whereas with the beam-equipped Rx-78-2 and derivatives it actually stands a fair chance.

>>15313506

Aren't a tremendous number of them going to be destroyed just making it to the Mobile Armor?

And I haven't seen the kinetic weapon yet that's been effective against a Mobile Armor.

>>15313519
Well, the thing is that Mobile Armors also have very good armor (which we can assume to be battleship-tier compared to MS) and on top of that are normally pretty mobile (terrestrial ones like the Apsalus are actually the exception to the norm).

HOWEVER, if you're going to kill a mobile armor reliably, it's throwing lives/Balls at it with bazooka/recoilless rifle shots, which is more a cost-effectiveness calculation to save your more important Jims since they're better at MS-to-MS combat against Zakus and Doms and even battleships.

Mobile Armors interestingly do have a niche on the battlefield despite their cost in that they're a very fast, very deadly annoying problem that has to be dealt with as soon as possible since they're good ship/MS-killers. 10+ Balls to kill a mobile armor is a pretty good trade honestly.

>>15313564

>10+ Balls to kill a mobile armor is a pretty good trade honestly.

I thought it'd be in the ball park of 50+ myself.

I could be wrong however.

And on the note of the Ball, what became of it post Zeon conflicts?

Is it even still a thing in the conflicts against Cosmo Babylonia, the Zanscare Empire or the Jupiter Empire?

>>15313572
>ball park
ayy

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>>15313015
>They tried that with the Ball.
>It didn't really work.
SAYS YOU!!!

>>15313396
>Zeon tried to make Balls. They actually did a good job of it, truth be told.
>>15313413
>A fully equipped one is actually more heavily armed than the standard Zaku or Dom since it has a multi-launcher AND its machine gun.
Yeah, in MSGO, the Oggo is actually a pretty good little pitfighter for a support.
Then again, that game doesn't have Machine Gun Balls...

>>15313441
>>15313468
>That doesn't solve the issue of the Ball only being usable in Space and having no terrestrial use, like say underwater.
We can fix THAT ISSUE!

>>15313696
That thing is adorable.

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>>15313696

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>>15314914
BALL GUY!!!

>>15315327

That looks like it should be on one of those "you dun reposted in the wrong neighborhood" meme posters.

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I would like to take a moment to mention that there was in fact a Ball variant developed which was in fact meant to reduce overall Ball attrition rates, these were regarded a success.

Also Whiteagle is a faggot.

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>>15313468
There's a Ball for that, actually.

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>>15316907
>That looks like it should be on one of those "you dun reposted in the wrong neighborhood" meme posters.
Well the concept is a bunch of Balls that combine together to form bigger robots ala Cubix, but I'd have to somehow convince the local Injection Molding factory or develop WAY better Plamo skills in order to create the real thing...

>>15317123
>Also Whiteagle is a faggot.
NO U!

>>15317131
>There's a Ball for that, actually.
Hell, Thunderbolt's Atlas Gundam IS ACTUALLY A BALL!

>>15304749

put a canopy on the top and its a god damned Guntank,

>>15317316
>bottom left
That's a weird looking thruster.

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>>15317457
>That's a weird looking thruster.
Yes, yes they are...

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>>15317575
Not the worst way to put together a mecha but not the most original.

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>>15317624
Well what bugs me about the Atlas' joints is that they don't appear to actually be CONNECTED to the parts they are joining...
Like, how the hell is that suppose to work?
Is he like Jeeg? Is it Magnets?

Anywho, here is Thunderbolt's Guntank!

>>15317654
Supposedly, you can use induction to power adjacent but disconnected parts. Like those wireless phone chargers

Likewise, you can move the joints using a linear magnetic system like a monorail.

...It's still a really dumb way of doing things but it could work. Up until you get a power surge and the joints demagnetize and fall apart, that is.

>>15317654
Fuck yeah Guntank.

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>>15302552

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>>15317654
I love that the Thunderbolt version is a Type-61 tank on super Project V steroids. Those small details that were brought over.
>color scheme
>headlights
>those anti-personnel launchers

>>15318636
also forgot, it even has the duel antennas of the Type-61 and the rail guard on the back of the tank.

>>15318636
>I love that the Thunderbolt version is a Type-61 tank on super Project V steroids. Those small details that were brought over.
But can it swivel at the waist?
Always hated that by canon, the Guntank was actually just upright self-propelled artillery...

>>15302552
depends on the description of your tank destroyer. & of course, doctrine in warfare change from time to time.

tank destroyer by any laymen terms is that it 'disable' tanks from working. either make the tank out of commission or permanent destruction of tank.

in physical way? get some kinetic or explosive to blow/shred tank to the kingdom come.
in electronic way? EMP. tank nowadays equipped with multiple sophisticated electronics; if not taking care of could be fry by those nasty shits.

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>>15302552

Well, the Shadow Sword from 40k has the assigned purpose of bringing down Titans and extremely large walkers among other things.

Unfortunately, it frequently fails to deliver in both the lore and on the table top, often finding itself wrecked when confronting a Titan.

>>15318922

>upright

Which makes it better as far as mounting weapons goes.

>>15320177
>Which makes it better as far as mounting weapons goes.
Well stability is also a thing, you don't want it all that top heavy or else the thing will topple over every time you fire.

But yeah, who makes a "Tank" with no damn gun traverse?

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>>15320308

>who makes a "Tank" with no damn gun traverse?

The Scrin for one.

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>>15320389
Does it really count as no gun traverse when it can side strafe?

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>>15320389
>>15320396
>Does it really count as no gun traverse when it can side strafe?
FUCKING VANU!!!

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>>15313696

>SAYS YOU!!!

And one manga at least.

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>>15322822

>>15320396

Well, it is missing one in the traditional sense.

But I'm not sure if the Scrin actually designed their tank to be a true tank given their walkers like their walkers normally do all of the functions a tank might have.

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>retards don't know the difference between a tank and a tank destroyer
This is why /k/ starts shit with you.

>>15320308

It's also easier to find space to mount a weapon when you're building up right.

>>15323096
>/k/

They're no better it seems....
They even still think HEAT shells melt their way throught armor.

>>15323652
Gotta love when /k/ starts a "design a next gen tank" thread and they all just come up with 100 ton machines using an self propelled artillery cannon, with 2000 millimeters of pure steel on the front.

>>15323773
>/k/ is all just one poster
>that poster is Ferdinand Porshe
Makes sense

>>15313439
pretty cool

>>15323773

So they aren't aware that technology hasn't advanced enough to make a 100 ton design feasible?

>>15327044
They don't even aware that Javelin fucking exist, tanks are perfectly simple machines and still thinking that everybody use WW2 tactics and enemies are just standing there in the open like a straw dummies.

>>15327075
*thinking that tanks are perfectly simple machines

Fucking phone

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>>15327044
The Maus had 1000 hp and could move at 20km/h. You can get that now from a Bugatti engine 1/4 the size, it's entirely feasible. Heck, you could even just use a Napier Sabre with enough cooling. But yes, >>15327075 is right. The "heavier is better" doctrine that led to the king tiger, the Maus, and the IS4M died once fin stabilised super-high-pen ammo became available. That's why the Leopard 1 was built like it is. But then new armour technologies came about, like reactive armour and other composite stuff. Now everybody uses solid sabot shells that don't trigger reactive armour, but since third-worlders still have things like T54s the modern battle tanks still have reactive armour. In truth, there probably isn't much that could be done to a 1000mm thick armour plate, besides ship bombardment. But I'd much rather have pic related.

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>>15327981
ASU-57 is cute! CUTE!

>>15328135
Fellow comrade...

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>>15311938
>GIT OUTTA MY INNER SPHERE, CLANNY!

>>15302552
I do not know what weapons World War III or IV will be fought with but a Jagdtiger would probably kill the shit out of them.

>>15328530
>I do not know what weapons World War III or IV will be fought with but a Jagdtiger would probably kill the shit out of them.
Son, if there is ever a THIRD World War, there ain't going to BE a Fourth...

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>>15327075
>They don't even aware that Javelin fucking exist
Bullshit, if it was for that, we wouldn't need to support those "With the advent of modern ATGM's, are tanks obsolete?" threads every week.

>>15328556
>Not fighting fourth world war with sticks and stones
Look at this fucking casual

>>15328216

Those are used by the Clans too. Specifically the Horses.

>>15327044
Oh sure, you could produce a 100 ton tank and have it perform but it would be a damn stupid tank.

>>15328571
It's a cost effectiveness thing. Sure, you could build a 100 ton tank but unless there's a clear advantage over a 60 ton tank there's no real point since a 60 ton tank will do.

Both can be killed so why go for the more expensive option?

>>15329930

>can be killed so why go for the more expensive option?

I think that's the attitude the Imperium of Man has in 40k.

>>15329939
Hey now, the competent ones get issued better flashlights.

>>15329984

To be honest, even that's kind of pointless given what they're facing.

>>15330017
>tfw getting mind and literally raped by the daemons of the warp for all eternity as countless of my brothers suffer the same or worse fates, but at least I won't get lost if the power goes out

>>15329930
No ATGM can go through two full metres of armour steel. But it's not cost effective to even run at that point. You might as well be building a land-ship with a shit-ton of 100-150mm turrets all over it. It's not subtle, and it's terrain handling abilities would be dubious at best, but I think someone could try to pull it off.

>>15328571
Yeah, tell that to all those tankfags.

>>15328604
>>Not fighting fourth world war with sticks and stones
>Look at this fucking casual
How the fuck do you fight a World War with nothing but canoes and gliders?

Shit, it will take all spring just to get to the nearest city-state, and we've got to get back before the winter comes!

>>15323811
you're forgetting:

/k/ sucks ass

>>15331917
That was correct

Hell, if i want to talk about weapon developements, i'll better go to /his/.

/k/ is only good for Sig Sauer shitposting and brownies recipee.

>>15304749
Kinda like Stug but reversed.

>>15305471
So answer is guntank and other low silouete high caliber weapon platforms.
Also Hildorf is highly superior.

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>>15312057
Have a webm

>>15302552
MAs

>>15332598
MAs is those Nazi's bigass wunderwaffen rail gun.

Intimidating but in the most retarded way.

>>15332566
Fucking love WW2 crazy and innovative tech

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>front of a jagdpanther with 2 extra guns and 2-3 legs.

>>15332598

MA?

The Square/cube law

>>15329930

You also have to put up with all the additional wear and tear on a 100 t tank's suspension (and every other part of its drive system) compared to a 60 t tank, and what that 100 t tank will do to bridges and roads.

Obviously MBTs have to be fairly heavy, sturdy vehicles, but you can pretty quickly hit a point where every additional tonne adds a fucking nightmare of problems.

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>>15329930

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WltC9KUKxhQ

If you purely want a tank that can beat the shit out of other tanks (and those pesky legged glory-hogs), bigger tends to be better, even if everything else aside it quickly becomes laughably impractical.

>>15313439
>ball has cannon
>ifield
Are you even fucking trying
You could solo the zam in feds vs Zeon with a fucking ball without getting hit

>>15334643

If it's a cannon, then the Mobile Armor has even less to fear given it's armor is thick enough to withstand the hits or it likely outranges said Ball cannon.

>>15332566
>alert the entire otherside of the river that we are in fact fording the river but, by George we will ford it quickly

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Beep beep outta the way.

>>15332611

How so?

>>15313396
I like the frog eyed cameras, gives it its own Ball-esque moe charm while still being distinct from Feddie design philosophy.

>>15335007
>12mm armor

>>15337193

>Getting hit at all

Git Gud

>>15335025
It was intended to be a one-of-a-kind "terror" weapons. Or something that will totalled entire army on their own. A show of power.

But the implication is, well.....

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>Tank destroyer thread
>Nothing but self-propelled guns

C'mon ya'll. The TOW gunners need some loving too.

>>15337698
Rockets aren't cool.

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>>15337698

>>15337501

> something that will totalled entire army on their own.

In the case of the MA, they're spot on.

>>15337779

Not that coolness is a factor in them being spammed in mecha related things.

>>15302552
Personally i view it like this

Panzer III = Zaku I
Panzer IV = Zaku II
StuG III = Dom
StuG IV = Rick Dom

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>>15338855
Zaku = Panzer III
Zaku II = Panzer IV
(Rick)Dom = Panther
Rick Dom II = Panther II
Gelgoog = Tiger
Gelgoog Jäger = King Tiger
Zeong = Maus
GM Camouf = Pic Related

>>15340118
I thought Maus is Big Zam.

>>15340641
No, that's the Ratte.

>>15318636
>That one dude who drew the short straw and has to be the rear gunner

The absolute madman.

>>15332566
Why are Soviet superweapons so lewd?

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>came to this board out of curiosity and boredom
>not even into /m/ outside Mechwarrior
>decent tank thread
I like you lot.

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>>15323652
>>15323773
When was the last time you fags were on /k/?

>>15340656
They actually did make a Maus, though.

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>>15330059
Yeah, I suppose it's asking a bi-CHALLENGE ACCEPTED

>>15302552

Didn't they have some crazy rocket system they were firing at Zakus in Gravity Front?

>>15346060

And some goofy hand held rocket business in the 8th MS Team too.