Confused about EVA

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dude they got maid outfit figures out now

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>>15272902


TL;DR Evangelion is Space runaway Ideon for retards

and Asuka Langley + Misato are Gundam characters stuck there

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>>15272923
bruh

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>>15272923
Is there one with Shinji?

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>>15272990
This guy knows what's up.

>>15272982
Is this from Anima?

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>>15272902
Muh Evageeks autism

Also the Rebuilds probably shit all over the original lore that was dumped in one of the games

>>15273003

yep

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>>15273016
>Muh Evageeks autism

I used to be a regular there, they can't help but try and merge NGE and NTE together in talking about lore, while I can appreciate that if that was the intent in the thread, they do this wholesale nowadays. Not to mention that their administration is so threadbare they had to bring back a narcissistic uncontrolled depressive feminist on to their admin who was allocated a job she could never do properly to begin with.

>>15273016
>Aliens fucked up
Ok
>They sorted each other out
Ok
>Thousands of years pass whilst humans flourish
Ok
>Humans gonna become Gods
Ok
>Yui dies
Ok
>Gendo puts Lilith's Soul into Rei
....
What
Where the fuck do souls come from

>>15272902

> So, were the EVAs humans? I thought 00 and 02-12 were coned from Adam's stock, not Lilith's, I can understand 01 being receptive to a human soul and forming a bond with the pilot, but 02 seems to operate in pretty much the same way, it looked like it was going to awaken just before the seagull mechs started eating it.

Evas are a mashup of Angel and human DNA, leaning much more heavily towards the angel side of that equation. Unit 01 is based on Lilith, the others based on Adam. Unit 01 has Yui's soul, Unit 02 has only a PART of Asuka's mom's soul (which was supposed to spare her life, but made her crazy and drove her to suicide so OOPS) and literally no one knows who is in Unit 00.

> How does the dummy plug system work if the Rei clones don't have souls?

It just tricks the Eva into thinking a person is in there, when its really just a clone body being operated by a computer running a simulation of a brain. This ties into-

> Are the Reis different people? They seem to have some memory crossover, and they share a soul, but Rei 3 has different feelings on Gendo than Rei 2.

That machine that Rei is always seen in copies her memories to a hard drive and helps stabilize her body, because otherwise she would break down and die. Some of the memories are used to build a combat profile for the dummy plug system. The rest are used are insurance.

When Rei 2 dies, Gendo can restore one of the other clones to her most recent 'save', which is why she remembers some things but not the fight in which she died, because that was after the last save. However, the memory imprint is imperfect. She remembers stuff but those memories don't have the emotional context or connection that Rei 2 had for them. Its more like she watched the movie of her life on TV than having actually lived it.

Gendou clones Ultraman to make a horrible shambling army of unwilling Ultraclones then he jams a kid down its spinal column and override the brain

>>15273169

> > Why does everyone think lilith is adam for most of the series? How many people knew lilith wasn't adam, even the angels were confused, attacking tokyo-3 when adam was still in germany. Did literally only Gendo know?

Its really hard to say, because the normal version of episode 24 and the directors cut have mutually exclusive answers to that question. In both versions Koworu is (or acts) surprised to find Lilith down there, but in the Director's cut there is a scene where Koworu conferences with Seele before that happens and they straight up mention the fact that Adam has bonded with Gendo and that Lilith is in the basement.

So just chalk it up to wheels within wheels.

> Where did the angels even come from? If adam was trapped in the antarctic until 2000, and was an embryo until 2016, when did he make the angels? Is that his own LCL at Antarctica? Did they all spawn from it one at a time? How did some of the angels get into orbit, and why was that one growing in a volcano?

Its unclear whether the Angel cores were made back during first impact and put to sleep with Adam, or if they were created during second impact. Either way, when Adam exploded the south pole the cores got scattered. A couple ended up in space, apparently. It was a hell of a kaboom, after all.

> Why was only one angel a 4-d hyper being, and the rest all 3-d beings?

Angels build their body using their AT field. The Angel is the core, everything else is just the armor they built themselves for battle. Leliel decided it wanted to be a hyperdimensional space origami, don't judge her life choices.

> Are adam and lilith the only seeds of life? Are there other adams and liliths floating around out there and are there other types of seeds, John with the tree of love? Henry with the tree of mild confusion?

Good question! The only ones we know of for sure are Adam and Lilith, but it stands to reason that there are probably other flavors out there as well that we simply don't see.

>>15273188
>>15273169
Much appreciated. It really doesn't help for a series this interpretive to have canon loredumps exclusively in a ps2 game.
It really does seem to be a great story, but one that could have been fucking amazing if it had been done right. I'll start watching the rebuild movies soon, but apparently they have a shittonne more Kaworu in them, and I thought he was an insufferable mary sue, being a well-adjusted person in the land of the clinically insane.

>>15273358
> It really does seem to be a great story, but one that could have been fucking amazing if it had been done right.

Its a neat story, but the actual Big Plot isn't actually that special. Its cool, but not amazing.

Where Eva excels is its Little Plot. Eva does a fantastic job of setting up Shinji and all the other emotionally damaged characters and making me feel for them.

Its true that piecing together the Big Plot is sort of confusing, but I suspect that has helped with Eva's longevity. Eva generates discussion in a way that few shows manage. Two decades later and I can still talk about this show for like three hours with people if I was so inclined.

>>15273169
>literally no one knows who is in Unit 00
Different anon, but is it ever established that the Evas actually need a soul to run and it doesn't just make them better? Could Unit 00 just not have one?

I thought 00 had Ritsuko's mother's soul, that's why it kept wanting to kill Gendou

Because the plot was written while in progress to accommodate a difficult production, create mystery, and conceal content from sponsors until the last minute. If there was a series bible it was described at the pitch meeting, then half followed when work started and dropped in the last act.

>>15273146
Aliens

>>15273866
yeah, remember near the end when Fuyutsuki was like "then again maybe it was aliens or some shit whatevs the world's ending who cares"
it was aliens

>>15273146

AT Fields are souls, your soul is expressed as the AT field holding your identity together

>>15273146
I'm surprised you accepted aliens, which have the barest mention in the series, but not souls, which the show spends way more time on. What did you think all the little red cores coming out of people during Third Impact were?

>>15272902
>>15273169
>Are the Reis different people? They seem to have some memory crossover, and they share a soul, but Rei 3 has different feelings on Gendo than Rei 2.

It's the same person. Rei dies, is reincarnated with a new body, process repeats.

>>15273071
Evageeks is the worst a fandom can become, a tight clique of nerds who don't want to foster a healthy community as much as bury it in their own pet theories, and censor everything else.

>>15274289

Philosophicly speaking, its not the same person. Continuity of consciousness is lost, memory and experience is lost, and what they care about and think is important is lost.

Rei 3 is very similar to Rei 2, but buying a new computer of the same model and re-installing windows doesn't make it your old computer.

>>15272999
Thanks for this existing, also checked.

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>>15274302
>Philosophicly speaking, its not the same person. Continuity of consciousness is lost, memory and experience is lost, and what they care about and think is important is lost.

That's not the case though, the soul in Evangelion would represent that continuity. Rei is even capable of existing without a physical body, like the first episode and EoE shows clearly. The memories are not lost either, because Rei keeps some if not all the impressions in her soul - the problem is accessing it, which being in a human body probably limits.

Your analogy is wrong also. Let me fix it:

You have a computer. The motherboard is destroyed, and cannot function.
You retrieve the hard drive which still functions, and then install it into a new computer.
The computer is now working again.

Philosophically though, it's the same person as well. No matter how you cut it, for Rei we were only ever dealing with limited memory loss. She is able to speak, walk and remember her previous relationships, but not remember completely what happened lately.

>>15274300

i know someone who keeps visiting evageeks, thankfuly she started hating NGE

>>15274317
> and then install it into a new computer.
> The computer is now working again.

But by your own admission that ISN'T the same computer. Its a new computer with the hard drive of the old one. It won't operate the same as the previous computer, because the only thing that is the same is the hard drive (different CPU, power supply, motherboard, etc all of which can impact performance).

Its a similar computer from your perspective, but not the same.

>>15274323
Rei's bodies are spare parts, all genetically identical to her previous body. I did assume it wouldn't be necessary to mention that the replacement parts for the computer would also be the exact same. So yes, just replacing the motherboard means it's the same computer.

There are two things: the updated analogy serves to point out the fatal and quite honestly insultingly flaw in your analogy, which was leaving out the fact that there were parts of the computer that were reused. The second point is that as Evangelion makes clear, a computer analogy does not work at all here. It's stated specifically that souls cannot be copied or digitized, so you can't use your hard drive analogy anyway.

In our analogy we assume the hard drive is the central component, the soul of the computer.

Also, unless you're going to argue that Shinji dies when his body was dissolved, or that the Shinji and Asuka at the end of EoE as well as everyone else are not the same individuals or persons, then it's better to drop your interpretation. Instead, just stick with the canon, there's just one Rei Ayanami and she revives.

>>15273016
Wait, if all the Evas except one were made from cloned Adam, where did they get the Adam from? Because if they thought it was the genie in the basement, (which they did?) then they'd have made Lilith clones instead. Secondly, how was Unit 1 made differently to the others? And how did they make Rei if they thought their only access to Lilith was Adam? And don't get me started on how Lilith's spear got fixed to put it into hibernation. Where did Adam's spear even go when he got turned into a foetus?

>>15274339

Asuka pretty explicitly died even before Third Impact started. Her soul just got sucked up along with everyone else's. You didn't have to be alive for you soul to get carried over, as evidenced by the dead bodies that turned to tang too.

Its hard to imagine a definition of 'dead' that doesn't include having your soul ripped from your body and your flesh dissolving to liquid. All because you can come back from it doesn't mean it isn't dead.

The fact that we have to refer to Rei 2 and Rei 3 by different names, and that those names actually mean something, goes a long way towards proving the point that they are not the same character.

> It's stated specifically that souls cannot be copied or digitized, so you can't use your hard drive analogy anyway.

As I recall, thats the exact way that dummy plugs work. Its just an imperfect process. And copying a human soul and copying the soul of something like Lilith are two entirely different problems to tackle, which is why they have to pass around Lilith's soul like a hot potato.

>>15274354
>Wait, if all the Evas except one were made from cloned Adam, where did they get the Adam from?
They had samples of Adam's DNA from the Antarctic expedition, y'know, the one that caused Second Impact.
>Because if they thought it was the genie in the basement, (which they did?) then they'd have made Lilith clones instead.
Gendo, Fuyutsuki, and probably other high-level staff including Ritsuko knew that the basement housed Lilith, but pretended it was Adam. Which also explains your following questions.

>>15274373
>The fact that we have to refer to Rei 2 and Rei 3 by different names,
We don't have to. There's exactly one character in the show titled "Rei Ayanami". Check the credits for yourself. Also, you're being inconsistent. The soul is ripped from their body, and carried to the heavens. Yet they may reform. We've also seen Rei shape her own body, by will.

>As I recall, thats the exact way that dummy plugs work.

You recall wrong. Ritsuko explicitly says it's impossible to digitize or copy the soul. Can you stop fanwanking? I'm starting to believe you belong home at evageeks considering how insane your bullshit sounds.

It's really simply and the show is 20 years old now so you don't have an excuse to not have gotten it. Rei I, II and III refer to the incarnations of Rei Ayanami. Think of it like Jesus if you will. Evangelion demonstrates that the body is simply a discardable shell. Even according to deeper lore, all humans started out as souls, which is why they're going "back" in EoE.

>>15274374
But not the spear. It was stated that Lilith went to hibernate long before human civilisation emerged, and if we assume that her hibernation is the result of the spear inside her, where did the spear come from?

>>15274373
Rei is literally a goddess, she's Lilith you moron.

>>15273545
I think I'd disagree with that, I'm one of those people who wishes Eva was less focused on the characters. I find all the other stuff to be generally more interesting.

>>15274523
Regardless, Shinji was a character empathised with by many. He's still a little bitch though, maybe that says something about Eva's audience. Anyway, The only way I can see the Big Plot from getting more interesting is either more inter-human strife, which might not be a good idea looking at 3.33, or introducing some other mechanic to further human instrumentality besides "robots fight angels" and "pubescent social engineering".

>>15274543
Nothing about 3.33 was a good idea. Anyone taking 3.33 seriously is a big red flag that they're an idiot.

>>15274561
I'm not exactly the sharpest donut in the box, but I understood nothing about 3.33. They just threw a load of random concepts at the screen and assumed you knew what they all were on sight. I seriously enjoyed 2.22 once it went off the rails, but this was just absolute nonsense.

>>15274561
I'm not saying that it's objectively good or ok compared to NGE, but it's better than a lot of garbage out there, especially the edgy stuff. Besides, we got this:
https://youtu.be/ihx0XWhkvmQ

>>15274608
It's not supposed to make sense in a conventional manner, but there's a system in the chaos. It's all about identifying the common theme or the consistent meaning or outcome of each scene. To be blunt, 3.33 and basically all works made by Anno and Khara are made to popularize Asuka over Rei. It's why Rei is written out of the story while the protagonist is narratively punished for having tried to save Rei, whilst Asuka is portrayed as a still sane fighter who tries to save the day along with the bad guys.

>>15274675
It's not better than anything, not even moeshit anime. This is because 3.33 is a high-budget moeshit anime that pretends it's something else.

>>15273016
So what was Seele? A bunch of floating monoliths?

If Seele had that extra army that killed Nerv, why did they need Nerv anyway

How did the angels in EoE regenerate after Asuka killed them? Why did they form with Shinji when his Eva was unlocked with Yuis soul?

Why didn't we see more of Eva 001 transforming into a human like that 1 episode

>>15274698
>Why didn't we see more of Eva 001 transforming into a human like that 1 episode
I was really disappointed by that plot thread myself. It seemed to be setting up so much with eva unit 01's awakening and in the end literally the only thing it amounted to was unit 01 breaking out of the bakelite and moving by itself, which wouldn't have needed to have happened if shinji had just gotten in the fucking robot.

>>15274716
After watching the series for the first time last week
I came to the conclusion, especially with the last 2 episodes, that it was expected to be longer but had budget cuts thus ending on a sour note

I liked it for the mechs, the characters were very relatable, the music was very memorable, pretty on point philosophy
I just wish the plot and "the point of the show it was trying to get across" was really complete
Tldr; Ending was anticlimatic

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>>15274678
>not worse than moeshit
>not worse than anything
>Evangelion 3.33 is the worst anime ever made
I mean, when I watch anything, I don't take its budget into account when I decide whether I like it or not, just whether it's good subject to my tastes. Eva 3.33 has more plot than the majority of moehsit anime, more relatable characters than, well also moeshit anime, a more coherent plot than the final episode of NGE, and better music than a lot of what's out there. Could you argue that it wasted its budget? Sure. Does that make it the worst anime feature ever created? Hell no. And I'm hardly alone in thinking this, because pic related.
The shitposting easily made it all worth it.

>>15274753
Watch end of evangelion. You get a more visually impressive experience with more story to it. It's still fundamentally the same story, it's really an alternative take on the same ending, but it's much better IMO. Instead of a penguin salutation you get a bittersweet uncertain future, with trippy (but well animated) imagery.
But yeah, it still does feel like things are missing. The show for most of it was
1: A mecha anime
2: A deconstruction of Mecha anime
3: A coming of age story
4: An allegory for somebody dealing with depression.
In the end of the original series, because of budget constraints they could only have a satisfactory ending for #3-4. In end of eva there is a lot more #2 and one really good scene for #1, but it still doesn't feel like it properly resolves the giant robot part of the show, as they really don't mean anything to the narrative from 30 minutes into end onwards.


Also, does AT-Field stand for Absolute Terror field, as the OP suggests? If so, the fuck?

>>15274678
>high-budget moeshit anime that pretends its something else
They literally removed all moe elements from Misato and Asuka, and deleted Rei's personality entirely. Mari's still Mari, and Kaworu and Shinji probably don't count as moe, at least by whatever definition I subscribe to. Conclusion: you're full of shit.

>>15272902
Why did Gendo need to sabotage Jet Alone if it didn't have an AT field anyway?
And if Rei and Kaworu had a child, would it be a god?

>>15274804
It would probably have a soul like the precursor race's. But Kaworu would never have anyone but Shinji. Now, if Kaworu got Shinji pregnant...

>>15274698
Seele are the old men running the conspiracy, the monoliths are profile pictures on their holographic conference calls. Except in Rebuild where they are literally the monoliths. The army in End isn't theirs, the movie communicated clearly they were JSSDF that Seele tricked into invading by telling them Nerv was doing a apocalypse. That worked because it was true, Japan had been on the outside but suspicious of Nerv from the very first episode, and Seele didn't explain they planned to eat everybody slightly differently.

Now Japan being so important for its secret alien mine and Seele not controlling it more directly in 15 years than signing checks to Ikaris and manipulating spies from Japan, that is a bigger and more immediate plot hole than anything about space history or soul physics.

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>>15273146
>What
>Where the fuck do souls come from
From the Chamber of Guf, DUH!!!

>>15273169
>Evas are a mashup of Angel and human DNA
Technically not true, as Angels and Humans somehow have THE SAME DNA, but the Angels' version is somehow photons or some shit...

>>15273188
>Leliel decided it wanted to be a hyperdimensional space origami, don't judge her life choices.
She is best wormho-OH GOD THE BEES!!!

>>15273545
>Its true that piecing together the Big Plot is sort of confusing, but I suspect that has helped with Eva's longevity. Eva generates discussion in a way that few shows manage. Two decades later and I can still talk about this show for like three hours with people if I was so inclined.
Anno struck onto true genius with the "Big Plot," being that there isn't really one outside of being a framework for the "Little Plot" to work in.
It's a fucking Rorschach Plot, it's a vague blob but everyone sees their own thing in it!

>>15274323
>Its a new computer with the hard drive of the old one. It won't operate the same as the previous computer, because the only thing that is the same is the hard drive (different CPU, power supply, motherboard, etc all of which can impact performance).
Dude, every atom in your body is replaced in like, ten years or so...
Does that mean you're not the same person you were a decade ago?

>>15274753
>I came to the conclusion, especially with the last 2 episodes, that it was expected to be longer but had budget cuts thus ending on a sour note
Not so much that it was longer, but Anno blew half the budget on the fight sequence in the first two episodes...

>>15274678
But Anon... REI LIVES!

>>15273666
It is speculated that 00 has Rei 1's soul who killed by Gendo when she was young.

>>15273666
It's plausible 00 was made differently. It was the prototype, they tried a hundred ways to grow one and keep it alive, then they were satisfied enough with its whatever to move on to 01 and only Yui predicted they would eat moms before then. But it does have AT and a mind of its own that doesn't want to be there.

>>15275362
>It is speculated that 00 has Rei 1's soul who killed by Gendo when she was young.

Which is ludicrous.

The most likely explanation (other than 'the writers didn't care) is that Rei just animates the thing herself.

>>15274775
>Eva 3.33 has more plot than the majority of moehsit anime, more relatable characters than, well also moeshit anime, a more coherent plot than the final episode of NGE,

There aren't any relatable characters in 3.33 at all, since everyone is dumbed down for plot. The final episode of NGE has a static plot, so what you're writing isn't true either.

> And I'm hardly alone in thinking this, because pic related.
Your pic related shows two things:
1- Box office numbers shows people were hyped for 3.0. Coincidentally, it also shows that people didn't like the movie.
2- The JMAF excellence price is a "Free" prize given out, essentially. It's an "honorable mention" which is given out to x number of movies that year, it's not really something you can win.

>>15274795
>They literally removed all moe elements from Misato and Asuka, and deleted Rei's personality entirely. Mari's still Mari, and Kaworu and Shinji probably don't count as moe, at least by whatever definition I subscribe to. Conclusion: you're full of shit.

No? They removed everything that WASN'T moe. The characters now have no defined personalities beyond the absolutely basic first impression. They are composed of "moe traits". There's no development, no backstory and no well-defined motivation beyond "defeat the bad guys". It's literally created for evageeks-tier fuckos to project on and jerk off to.

Asuka gets more "moe" in through her trumped up tsundere personality combined with new traits like apparent super strength and a secret angel trait. This is moe. The same goes for the rest like Misato, Mari, Rei etc as well. They don't have defined characters, only anime girl attractiveness. "BUT ITS NOT CUTE!", you say. Well, you're full of shit. Some people find tsundere crap extremely cute, and Tsurumaki (a 3.33 writer) is one of them. The scene where Asuka wails at EVA13, he comments on that Asuka is "sooo cute" in that one.

"Moe" is simply the sum of the collection of traits a character or work has which inspire a reaction of desire and imagination attraction in the viewer. A cute girl may make the viewer want to imagine different situations with the girl, and a spaceship floating in orbit over a planet may make anotherviewer imagine the hull creaking or the engine humming as it does so.

Simply put, it's playing on people's nerdy interests without actually developing a fully story. Which is what 3.33 is, a collection of "moe" that has no logical or realistic coherence whatsoever. Conclusion: You don't know what moe is and you're full of shit. 3.33 is worse than even moeshit anime because moeshit anime has more realistic characters combined with actual character development. Yes, moeshit anime sucks, but 3.33 is worse.

>>15275538
>>15275362
If you watch NGE instead of just parroting what some idiot wrote on a wiki (It's Naoko's soul! No, wait, Rei 1's!) you'll see that Rei's EVA is a test-bed for some dummy-plug technology. It's the prototype EVA, and what we've got in EVA00 is likely to be some variant of the dummy plug, which is after all, Ritsuko and Naoko's expertise with the MAGI.

So Rei animates the thing herself, probably.

>>15274795
When you delete a characters personality and development, so that all which is left is a cute sexualized young girl, what you have is moe. Misato, Asuka, Rei Q, Kaworu, Mari and even Shinji applies here. Add space battles and mecha, and you've got a shitty moe anime called You can (not) redo.

>>15275713
>dummy-plug
That's another one, SEELE and NERV develop identical tech simultaneously without sharing data from the homunculi pilots they're both hiding. If they started from a common point or stole from eachother it's not in the show or included in stuff after.

>>15275708
>>15275755
At least as far as I understand it, Moe isn't superficial sexual appeal and scantily-clothed figurine marketability, but rather "wanna protect" feels. That's why Umaru, and other big-eyed, cute stuff is Moe while being unsexualised but Ritsuko is not while having an adult and curvy body. Though there certainly is overlap.

I personally wouldn't describe a personalityless sex doll Rei as cute, nor would I use that word to describe a pirate cunt or a cold Ritsuko, all of whom have no character development. They all have potential sex appeal, but are by no means cute, which I would say is essential for it to be "moe".

Oh and this is an informal definition based upon other informal definitions, so please tell me what your view of moe is as opposed to telling me I'm mentally deficient. At least do both.

>>15275801
I'm fairly certain all NERV branches were sharing data on the dummy-plug system, as they were working together on everything else, so when branches 1 and 3 were compromised by SEELE they turned NERV's own weapons against it. Except now they're seagulls with sperm whale heads.

>>15274804
>Why did Gendo need to sabotage Jet Alone if it didn't have an AT field anyway?

Because despite being absolutely fucking worthless against an Angel, it SOUNDED like it should be better.

No child pilots, perfect AI control, can run for 150 days instead of 5 minutes so its always on guard? And probably a lot cheaper than the eldritch science that goes into making an Eva.

An army of Jet Alones would have been roflstomped by a single Angel, but the real risk was that in order to produce that inferior army they would have cut funding to Nerv.

Gendo was protecting his budget.

>>15275938
Moe can apply to objects. The "I wanna protect" is only one manifestation of moe. There is an equivalent manifestation in mecha, such as "I wanna pilot" in reference to a mech. Like the cute girl, all that is required is a good design which otaku will latch onto and impregnate with their own fantasies.

Fucking Eva thread...

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>>15275938
>At least as far as I understand it, Moe isn't superficial sexual appeal and scantily-clothed figurine marketability

It's one form of moe, notice how few moe characters are sexually unattractive? Even fat characters still retain the same sexual proportions. Picture related. Umaru is also the very model of an extremely attractive character, who also "transforms" into a small slobbish creature.

I think you should read >>15276540
which nails it very well. Moe is a feeling you can get about anything, the "I want to protect this girl" is just one such moe reaction. Some otaku flock towards cute girls, others flock towards cool trains or cute boys. Consider Kaworu Nagisa, a character with no character, development or defined motivation, who the third movie is more or less dedicated to. In a word, moe is symbolism without substance. This is why it's possible to write or portray a sexy character without it being just moe - consider Perfect Blue. The main character is an idol, is very attractive in both personality and appearance, but does anyone consider this a moe character? No.

>I personally wouldn't
Great, because your opinion is literally worthless. Don't share it again. What matters here is whether or not people, not just you, you damned egoist, do. A normal person may find Asuka a revolting character, but an otaku like Tsurumaki may love it and scream about how cute it is. He did this about Asuka in 3.33, by the way.

The destruction of Rei's character and the portrayal of Rei as a personality-less sex-doll is pandering precisely to the people who hate Rei, which is Asuka fans for the most part. This "Rei Q" character is the exact Rei Ayanami desired by some EVA fans because it is zero threat to their own militant fandom. Rei Q isn't going to do anything but look bad in comparison to the newly reformed Asuka.

So because 3.33's characters (and indeed, mecha and plot) don't have any substance and only caters to the worst of the otaku, it is moeshit.

>>15272982
>NO PHOTOGRAPHY
That guy likes to live dangerously.

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>>15272902

will never be good, awesome or have this intro

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYe_-oFkMaI
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odBK6h_mNX8

>>15276767
JP live to defy photo restrictions, watching people sneak out footage of fighting game loketests is great.

>>15275708
the only good thing of 3.33 was Shinji bitchslapping Unit-02 effortlessly

>>15276489
Shiro was confident about courting investors away from Project E, but Nerv's funding was controlled by co-conspirators running the UN and shell companies they owned. Gendo's just the kind of guy to fuck it to because the espionage community would be more suspicious if he didn't.

>>15276745
>moe is symbolism without substance
Well then that wraps up Evangelion completely!

>>15277710
The original series and EoE has substance.

>>15278034
That it did, but it wasn't related to the symbolism.

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>>15272902
Eva becomes a lot less confusing once you realize none of these questions have any bearing on the actual plot.

It's a straight-forward character-driven story. Don't get distracted by all the Ultraman.

食い逃げガイナックス、劇場版でエヴァンゲリオン1号機が戦艦に改造されてる

>>15278324
>Escape Gainax, the Evangelion No. 1 machine has been remodeled as a battleship in the movie version
Google translate a shit, what the fuck did you just say?

>>15278346
It's true though, in 3.33 Evangelion Unit 1 is used to make the flying battleship fly. Escaping Gainax after that film certainly sounds like a good idea.

>>15278298
More straightforward. The characters are still full of repressed memories and they all believe concurrent wrong and contradictory things and they get called out by hallucinations of themselves as babies.

>>15278211
Depends on what symbolism you mean. Religious symbolism? No. But metaphors, and cliches as symbols? They do.

>>15274775
Congratulations on making the dumbest post ITT.

>>15278346
Its more like "1st movie after Gainax and Evangelion Unit 01 is remodeled as a battleship" which is actually wrong since Gainax didnt produce any of the films and even EoE was made at Production I.G.

>>15273698
i thought it was rei 1 which is why it tried to kill ritsuko

>>15281321
No, it was probably a precursor to the dummy plug system. In the same scene it happens in episode 14, they are testing the future of the dummy plug system. Putting 1 and 1 together...

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>>15275321
>But Anon... REI LIVES!

So? Alive or not, it doesn't matter because it's only alive as an intentionally shit version of the original. When Asuka, Misato and Kaworu get the same treatment, then maybe Rei being alive will matter.

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>>15281894
>Alive or not, it doesn't matter because it's only alive as an intentionally shit version of the original.
No man, Shinji actually DID save original Rei, she's sitting in Unit 01 core!

>>15283891
>No man, Shinji actually DID save original Rei, she's sitting in Unit 01 core!

They said that in the movie. It's not really a spoiler, it's been four years now. Read again: Alive or not, it doesn't matter because it's only alive as an intentionally shit version of the original. When Asuka, Misato and Kaworu get the same treatment, then maybe Rei being alive will matter.

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>>15283898
>Alive or not, it doesn't matter because it's only alive as an intentionally shit version of the original.
ReiQ isn't intentionally shitty, she's just a Rei who is not Rei finally realizing she's not Rei.
Hopefully actual Rei will get out of the Robot or turn it into a Giant Woman in order to help her.

>>15283946
>ReiQ isn't intentionally shitty
Don't be stupid. Why else would they introduce a Rei that isn't actually Rei? There's no other reason. Why don't we introduce an Asuka that's not Asuka as well, and have said Asuka be crap for the final movie?

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>>15283946
Imagine this: You're a writer. You've written two movies so far, and you've got one to go. There's a lot of characters, and you need every single bit of time left to properly develop them and tell your story.

Do you have time to write out a major character and invalidate it's development so far? No, you don't.
Do you have time to write in scenes which attack the character's core? No, you don't.
Do you have time to write in scenes which glorify some characters without developing them? No, you don't.

I wish I could punch you in the face for being so goddamned stupid. Are you being ignorant on purpose, or are you just THIS stupid to not realize that rewriting Rei's character into being a clone of Yui, stuck in an EVA like Yui, changing Yui's surname to Yui whilst punishing Shinji for having tried to save Rei and making Asuka and Kaworu into untouchable heroes and heroines isn't a major "FUCK YOU" to Rei's character, that can't possibly be fixed within a movie, or even ten movies?

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>>15284037
>Why else would they introduce a Rei that isn't actually Rei?
Why not?

>>15284050
>THIS stupid to not realize that rewriting Rei's character into being a clone of Yui
...Uh son, you're going a bit too rabid in your Rei-fus defense, since you're forgetting this has ALWAYS been the case.

>whilst punishing Shinji for having tried to save Rei
This IS shitty, true, but it's shitty for undoing Shinji's character development in the LAST Movie just so he can be a mopey emo-shit again.
There being a whole tank of Rei's is something used as a gut-punch for the entire franchise, but the point of Rebuilds original Rei and her white haired clone is that, while they are part of a series of mass manufactured humans, they respectively learned and are learning to be their own Persons.

>>15284855
>...Uh son, you're going a bit too rabid in your Rei-fus defense, since you're forgetting this has ALWAYS been the case.

It hasn't. New with Rebuild and Campus Apocalypse.

>This IS shitty, true, but it's shitty for undoing Shinji's character development in the LAST Movie just so he can be a mopey emo-shit again.
Not really, because as you've seen other characters are fine. This is a targete attack.

>There being a whole tank of Rei's is something used as a gut-punch for the entire franchise, but the point of Rebuilds original Rei and her white haired clone is that, while they are part of a series of mass manufactured humans, they respectively learned and are learning to be their own Persons.

Not really, original Rei was just one character, not a series of characters. This is the equivalent of hammering it.

>>15284050
old school designs look best.

>>15284976
Word up. It's such bullshit that they removed EVA00's blue design just because Anno and the writers hate Rei.

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>>15284872
>It hasn't. New with Rebuild
Son, have you never heard the RANT before?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGMuaXIlckU

Rei has ALWAYS been a Clone of Yui, hence the series association with Freudian concepts.

>Not really, original Rei was just one character, not a series of characters.
Actually, there were THREE Rei's in the original series, though it's easy to over look since Rei II bled into Rei III and why she finally went "Fuck you Gendo, I'm giving Godhood to Shinji."

Rei Q is just the first time we see this with two "concurrent" Rei's; Unlike Rei II and Rei III, Rebuild Rei never actually DIED as she's still in the Robot, so her Soul was never transferred into Rei Q.
So while they share the same series of clone body, Rei Q is specifically NOT the Rei from the first two Rebuild movies, and her entire Character Arc is going to be her discovering how to be her own individual.

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>>15285081
>Rei has ALWAYS been a Clone of Yui, hence the series association with Freudian concepts.

What is this, 1984? We've always been at war with Eurasia now? No, Rei was never a clone of Yui. It was physically impossible to happen, and the series nor the spinoff video game, or any of the glossaries claimed Rei was a clone of Yui. For a bit of info, Sadamoto who also wrote parts of the character settei explains she's 50% Adam and 50% Yui. Then there's her soul, who is that of Lilith.

>Actually, there were THREE Rei's in the original series, though it's easy to over look since Rei II bled into Rei III and why she finally went "Fuck you Gendo, I'm giving Godhood to Shinji."

No, there was just one. The clones are spare parts. Rei's soul is recycled and she is reincarnated every time. There's a reason why there were no "concurrent Reis'", because it was physically impossible. Ritsuko explains this in episode 23.

You're been brainwashed by the Rebuilds, or you're trying to spew it's anti-Rei propaganda here. Which is what the Rebuilds are trying to do, attack Rei. Don't spread it's misinformation to others.

>>15281104
Congratulations for providing a coherent argument to the contrary.

>>15285107
As someone potentially inaccurately stated above, her soul doesn't carry memories, which are themselves backed up, hence Rei II not remembering when she died but almost everything before that got carried over to Rei III. Arguing whether they're one character or many is just pointless semantics, but what difference does it make? Arguably, Rei II and Rei III were going down different character paths and could have become different personalities and hence different characters if the backup had been too long before she died, and this did happen between Rei I and II, but I don't think Rei I got more than a minute of screen time, so it doesn't matter to the story. I might be talking out of my arse here, because I don't have any citation apart from that other anon about the whole memory backup thing. In any case, Rei didn't have any of Lilith's memories so my point probably stands.

Now I don't remember anything about Rei being made from Adam and Yui, but if an official sounding Jap says so it's probably correct. My question here is what is the reason for doing this and not just solely using Yui's or Adam's DNA, and how is Kaworu different to this?

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>>15285202
>As someone potentially inaccurately stated above, her soul doesn't carry memories
This would be wrong. In episode 23, when Rei dies, her body is destroyed. Right? Rei says right before she dies, that this is the first time she's cried. Which is true, we've never seen or heard of Rei shedding a tear before that moment.

Then Rei dies. Her body, brain, muscles and everything she is, is incinerated. There would be no time for a backup here. Ritsuko says that the body should be discarded.

Then, later, Rei starts to cry again - and then something interesting happens, Rei says that she knows that she's cried before. BAM! The soul does in fact carry memories, as this scene proves.

None of your fanwank applies at all. The facts are that Rei is one single character, as there is one single credit for "Rei Ayanami" in all of the series and EoE. In Rebuild, there are two, one for Rei, and one for Rei Q.

also, your other post really was pretty stupid IMO.

>My question here is what is the reason for doing this and not just solely using Yui's or Adam's DNA, and how is Kaworu different to this?

Kaworu isn't' a factor. He's a nobody with no background details. Projecting Rei's settei onto Kaworu's is insulting to both. Kaworu may be a vacuum of character quality, but let's not have him suck up everything else ya?

I guess they were cloning the EVA's, and stumbled upon a way to use the same tech to clone humans. They had made EVA00, and they also used Yui's DNA to fuse with Adam's DNA, in order to make Rei. That's one possibility.

All in all it's not that important.

>>15285202
>I might be talking out of my arse here, because I don't have any citation apart from that other anon about the whole memory backup thing.

You both are talking out of your arse. Rei clones were spare parts for Lilith's incarnation on earth, Rei Ayanami. Later Lilith is so affected by the experience that she assumes the form of Rei Ayanami from thereon.

>>15285218
You may well be right, but I don't think the single credit is particularly relevant because it could be being left deliberately ambiguous. I guess we'll assume that Rei didn't remember her death itself because of trauma. There's also the very likely possibility that Anno was just too high while making this and didn't put any consideration into the mechanics of the Evangelion universe. This would make these arguments more pointless than they already are, but we might uncover a complete logical contradiction or two that invalidates the entire Eva universe, like that one anon did with Eureka Seven AO.
you still can't argue logically that evangelion 3.33 is the worst anime feature ever made, regardless of how invalid my opinions on it being better than some other garbage

>>15285262
That does make sense, but it also means Lilith did not have any memories, or at least not stored ones, or at least not memories that manifested in Rei for whatever reason. I suppose that means Rei isn't even a character either, Lilith is.
we don't share an arse

>>15285477
>That does make sense, but it also means Lilith did not have any memories, or at least not stored ones, or at least not memories that manifested in Rei for whatever reason. I suppose that means Rei isn't even a character either, Lilith is.

Rei wants to return to Lilith, so those are coming from her old self. Rei is Lilith, and they're the same "character". Just two names for the same being.

>>15285486
There's nothing wrong with multiple names for the same character, we use Rei I, II, and III after all.

>>15285477
>You may well be right, but I don't think the single credit is particularly relevant because it could be being left deliberately ambiguous

No, these things aren't ambiguous like that. It's directly saying that there's one Rei Ayanami.

>I guess we'll assume that Rei didn't remember her death itself because of trauma.
She knows, she says she's the third.

>you still can't argue logically that evangelion 3.33 is the worst anime feature ever made, regardless of how invalid my opinions on it being better than some other garbage
It's up there, but it's the worst because it's actually trying to destroy the original. Not even Lucas went this far.

>>15285107
>No, Rei was never a clone of Yui. It was physically impossible to happen, and the series nor the spinoff video game, or any of the glossaries claimed Rei was a clone of Yui. For a bit of info, Sadamoto who also wrote parts of the character settei explains she's 50% Adam and 50% Yui.
You just said she's 50% Yui!

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>>15285883

>>15285883
Do you know what a clone is? You're roughly 50% of your dad, and 50% of your mother genetically speaking. A clone is 100% genetically identical. Are you under 18?

>>15284037
> Why else would they introduce a Rei that isn't actually Rei?

This isn't new. The show did it too, she was just called Rei III that time.

>>15285601
>No, these things aren't ambiguous like that. It's directly saying that there's one Rei Ayanami.
You mean there's only one character name and VA name. Rei II and Rei III are fan-names, never used officially by staff. They wouldn't put more than one Rei Ayanami in the credits because they have the same name, which is why this is not a point from which information can be extracted.

>She knows, she says she's the third.
Implying she wasn't told. What's more likely, Gendo or whoever tells her that she died and has been brought back so she can explain it to her "friends" and other people who don't know instead of them freaking out, or just letting her wander off without even a debriefing?

>It's up there, but it's the worst because it's actually trying to destroy the original. Not even Lucas went this far.
If the original were a master piece then maybe, but NGE certainly had its flaws. The same goes for Star Wars. I've been looking at it as a standalone from NGE because the NGE story is finished, and this is part of the rebuild story, which is arguably worse. Also this is pretty bad:
https://youtu.be/sJxJh7zObec

>>15285899
>>15286047
I think what he's complaining about isn't the "50% Yui means she's a clone of Yui", but the emphasis on the "It was physically impossible to happen" part. It's perfectly possible to clone a person if you had enough DNA to make them an artificial parent. Unless the artificial womb used is explicitly stated to require the alternative genetics of Adam, which I don't believe it is. He could have also been commenting that since she had to have been born from an artificial womb, this is a cloning process, though this differs from the current definition of cloning.

>>15286142
>>15286047
And you could equally argue that a clone of a person has 50% of their mother's DNA and 50% of their father's, making them not a clone by your logic. something something epigenetics something In this case, the method of birth is probably the ideal defining factor.

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>>15286142
>You mean there's only one character name and VA name.
No, Yui is also voiced by the same VA as Rei. Two names, one VA. In Rebuild there's a name for Rei and Rei Q.

>Implying she wasn't told.
She wasn't told. She says "I think", which means she couldn't have been told or she'd be sure.

>What's more likely, Gendo or whoever tells her that she died and has been brought back so she can explain it to her "friends" and other people who don't know instead of them freaking out, or just letting her wander off without even a debriefing?

No? Because the story is that she never died, not that she died and came back. They are trying to keep that secret. Which is why Ritsuko interrupts Rei when she says too much.

>If the original were a master piece then maybe, but NGE certainly had its flaws.
Masterpiece or not, what we can say about NGE is that it was genuine. It did have a good set of characters that got serious treatment. When Rebuild actively works to undermine several of them in order to favor the director's favorites, we're going into a Absolute Shit Territory.

Even your video is better than 3.33 artistically. The difference is budget.

>>15286167
>And you could equally argue that a clone of a person has 50% of their mother's DNA and 50% of their father's, making them not a clone by your logic. something something epigenetics something In this case, the method of birth is probably the ideal defining factor.

There's only one definition for "clone" anon, and that's 100% genetic match. If we have a mother and a father that don't match genetically, we end up with a child inhertiing attributes from both. Some times looks, other times smarts. In Rei's case, most of Yui's looks plus all that Angel weirdness and supernatual ability.

>>15286139
They didn't do it, there's just Rei Ayanami.

>>15286142
>I think what he's complaining about isn't the "50% Yui means she's a clone of Yui", but the emphasis on the "It was physically impossible to happen" part. It's perfectly possible to clone a person if you had enough DNA to make them an artificial parent.

But if you use two sets of DNA, or modifty it in some way, it's no longer a clone but a child - offspring. This:

>Unless the artificial womb used is explicitly stated to require the alternative genetics of Adam, which I don't believe it is. He could have also been commenting that since she had to have been born from an artificial womb, this is a cloning process, though this differs from the current definition of cloning.
is utter bullshit.

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>>15286142
see >>15285899

If you are to create a clone, you take some DNA, and let it grow. The result is an genetically identical copy, in Yui's case, a completely normal human being like the rest of the cast. But in Rei's case, where she's got red eyes, blue hair, supernatural powers, she's obviously not just human - and therefore cannot be a clone.

Rei was never said to be a clone of Yui in any of the original stories. This isn't up for debate - she never was. So the only reason for you to say otherwise if you're intent on spreading retarded misinformation about Rei,in which case: neck yourself.

>>15285547
>>15286139
The original story never had any mention in the credits for Rei as Rei I, II or III. Rei I II and III refer to the same person revived twice. The difference with e.g Rebuild is that there is more than one Rei, and Rei Q is officially a new character.

>>15286172
>>15286233
>>15286193
>No, Yui is also voiced by the same VA as Rei. Two names, one VA. In Rebuild there's a name for Rei and Rei Q.
Rebuild was made at a different time with a probably more concrete plot outline, so that isn't entirely relevant, but it does help prove your point. But my point is that all the Reis have the same name, so putting:
>VA NAME - Rei Ayanami
>VA NAME - Rei Ayanami
would be fucking stupid, and since there (probably) wasn't a canon naming scheme for the two characters at the times they couldn't have put:
>VA NAME - Rei Ayanami 1
>VA NAME - Rei Ayanami 2
in the first place.

>She wasn't told. She says "I think", which means she couldn't have been told or she'd be sure.
But she could just be saying that after inferring from reactions of other people in NERV, especially bridge crew gossip. It isn't a concrete point and can't be because it's based on a fictional character's mind.

>No? Because the story is that she never died, not that she died and came back. They are trying to keep that secret. Which is why Ritsuko interrupts Rei when she says too much.
Yeah that mostly makes sense, but I got the impression that Shinji was the only one out of the loop. Surely the bridge crew saw Rei getting killed, and I imagine it made quite some office talk.

>Masterpiece or not, what we can say about NGE is that it was genuine. It did have a good set of characters that got serious treatment. When Rebuild actively works to undermine several of them in order to favor the director's favorites, we're going into a Absolute Shit Territory.
You see, you're looking at things comparatively, and in that case you're probably correct. I'm not sure if 3.33 was in the realm of Ghostbusters 2016 comparative disappointment, I haven't seen the latter and I'm not sure if this argument started while including only anime or not. What about the Matrix sequels? They're terrible in comparison to the original, but I'd watch them over some Adam Sandler garbage any day.

>>15286193
Is a genetically modified clone still a clone? You put a little frog DNA to make them a little greener, are they still a clone? You put a little Adam in there to make them godmode, are they still a clone? Where's the threshold between cloned and mothered? There isn't one, therefore my supposition that the definition should default to whether it was born or grown.

>>15286289
Though of course the only clones on Earth have been born from wombs, so there really isn't a defining barrier. I still can't see how you can put a small amount of DNA from another species into DNA from a human and make a person, and suddenly that other species member is a father? I see the difference between a 2% tiger DNA designer-baby-clone and a 50% alien thing, but evidently the "child" took on the shape of it's mother, and probably brain shape and (early) personality too. This leads me to believe that either Rei isn't 50/50 but some other fraction, Adam DNA is fucking whacky, or Anno is full of shit. I'm willing to accept any combination of the above.

>>15286322
I am willing to concede this point on grounds of Adam DNA being whacky, but at least this discussion might have cleared up any confusion with the anon who asked the question in the first place, along with teaching him a lesson or two about shitposting.

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>>15285899
>>15286047
>>15286142
>Unless the artificial womb used is explicitly stated to require the alternative genetics of Adam
>>15286233
>But in Rei's case, where she's got red eyes, blue hair, supernatural powers, she's obviously not just human - and therefore cannot be a clone.
More that we can't really say having 50% of your genetic material coming from a protaganator God-thing that does even use conventional matter FOR said genetic material makes the resulting human chimera NOT a clone of the Human donor.

Also, isn't Rei's "Angel" parent Lilith, who, you know, is the source of all Human Life anyways?

>>15286289
>Is a genetically modified clone still a clone?
>>15286322
>>15286333
Exactly, plus again, wasn't she made out of Lilith, who is the source of the human genome in the first place?

>>15286460
>>15285107
>Sadamoto who also wrote parts of the character settei explains she's 50% Adam and 50% Yui.
I think it's that her soul is that of Lilith, but the body was part Adam. I guess Rei's body also turned into soup in EoE, though I can't even remember if she was dead at that point. I'd like to know what reason they had for using Adam DNA to make Rei and not Lilith's, because it really feels like there was so much trial and error going on in NERV's early stages.

>is year 2036
>evangelion reboot needs extra funds
>kickstarter campaign begins
>top-tier one-of-a-kind reward is to have a new school character named after you
>american guy wins it
>his name is adam
I can see it now.

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in the words of the only person who wants the franchise to die, so she can move to gundam UC or AC

>>15286460
>Also, isn't Rei's "Angel" parent Lilith, who, you know, is the source of all Human Life anyways?

The distinction between Lilith's and Adam's lines hasn't been genetic since Shamshel. They're separated by whatever the Fruit are and those aren't heritable or Adam clones would have S2s by default.

>>15286763
Well since all angels have S2 engines, and no Adam """clones""" did (neither the Evas or Rei), then there's something weird going on with this fruit of life. Should we assume that Adam never had an S2 engine but all his children, "Adin", so to speak, has, then we might be able to assume that Lilith doesn't have the fruit of knowledge while the Lilin do. Though if the Evas and Rei were imperfect enough to not have S2 engines, then it explains why the later mass-produced Evas did, though those are a bit of a mystery regardless. Shinji's Eva 01 is able to run without power in some situations, and I think it's been confirmed that it has an S2 engine within, even though it's the only non-"Adam" Eva.

The next question to ask is, do Evas possess the fruit of knowledge? I'd understand if only unit 01 did, but then it having the fruit of life would be an anomaly in itself.

Another question, are the fruits of life and knowledge carried in the soul or in the body? It seems like they're all contained in the body, but doesn't Shinji's Unit 0 show sentience in the form of Yui?

Fook'n weerd.

>>15286864
Adam itself definitely had one, Dr. Katsuragi named it while studying the body. The exact moment 01 gained the organ was depicted pretty memorably on screen late in the series, but not with any explanation for the berserker's energy before then.

I haven't watched anything outside of the show and End of Evangelion. Do any of the other movies answer anything? Or do they just muddy everything up more?

I know making sense is overrated in Japan but NGE is on a whole other level.

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>>15286975
New movies make detours specifically to show the background and rules are changed and screw with expectations from NGE.

>>15286279
>But my point is that all the Reis have the same name, so putting:
Not in Rebuild, and they just use Rei I, II II etc... then, or like other sci-fi-movies: Person (Clone #1), Person (Clone #2) etc...

>But she could just be saying that after inferring from reactions
Inferring from reactions != being told directly. Your point is moot.

>Yeah that mostly makes sense, but I got the impression that Shinji was the only one out of the loop. Surely the bridge crew saw Rei getting killed, and I imagine it made quite some office talk.
The bridge crew doesn't seem to know except Ritsuko, Fuyutsuki and Gendo. Don't know where you got that impression.

> I'm not sure if 3.33 was in the realm of Ghostbusters 2016 comparative disappointment,

It's far worse. Adam Sandler movies have more integrity than 3.33.

>>15286460
>More that we can't really say having 50% of your genetic material coming from a protaganator God-thing that does even use conventional matter FOR said genetic material makes the resulting human chimera NOT a clone of the Human donor.

That's a guarantee it isn't a clone. 100% identical copy is the figure we need.

>>15286975
The new movies deliberately changes the characters to ruin ir glorify them. The author is butthurt that Rei was more popular than the characters he himself liked, so he made Rebuild in order to change that.

Everything that matters is different and wont help you learn anything more about the characters.

>>15286543
Rei's body didnt turn to soup. Rei is outside the whole instrumentality thing.

>>15272990
>>15272999
I like both of you

>>15287246
>The bridge crew doesn't seem to know except Ritsuko, Fuyutsuki and Gendo. Don't know where you got that impression.
https://youtu.be/fwDApINH8_Y
Get fucking schooled scrub, no way are they not believing that she just exploded.

>>15287350
Ok she was absorbed into Lilith's body because she had Adam within her, which I guess is why she was given 50% Adam DNA to begin with.

>>15287691
She doesn't have Adam DNA, she's 100% Yui

>>15287694
>>15285107
Ask him. His source sounded legit so I'm going with it, also Yui didn't have blue hair and red eyes. Better still, look for the citation.

>>15287694
She cant be 100% Yui if she has biological differences.

did we got invaded by Evageeks and EvangelionBR faggots?

it's also important to make sure the right rei and not the same one

>>15287971
They could be non-genetic. In the same ways that clones have different fingerprints to the base, red eyes and blue hair might just be side effects of being a test tube babies, perhaps a melanin deficiency?

The way I see the whole Rei clone deal is in the same terms as Duncan Idaho in the Dune series. For anyone who's never read it (and you probably should, it has similar themes to Eva's "big plot"), Duncan is a pretty minor character, a friend of the main character, Paul, who is killed in the first book.
Paul becomes Emperor over all of mankind and the weird biological scientist faction, try to win his favor by sending him a clone of Idaho, reconstructed from tissue taken from his corpse. The clone (after some persuasion) remembers everything, including his death, and lives the rest of a full life serving in Paul's court.
Idaho clone dies, Paul abdicates, his son, Leto, takes over, and in order to experiment with and investigate the human condition, he requests another Idaho clone, cloned from the same sample as the original. He's given one, and after some persuasion, this one can also remember everything about his past life up until the moment of his first death, but nothing about the first clone's life. This clone eventually comes to lead a very different life to the original clone.
Fast forward five K years. Leto is immortal, so he's still on the throne and every time an Idaho has died he's ordered a new one, from the same stock. Every one of these clones has the exact same twenty something years of memories, and then branches out into completely different characters. Some try to murder Leto, some fall in love and have families, and raise children and some dedicate their lives to protecting Leto.
Another few thousand years later, and one Idaho "ascends", somehow recalling the memories of every single Idaho clone, even though he was still cloned from the original sample, implying some sort of immortal soul.
He has identity problems to say the least.

>>15287999
If it's non-generic, then it isn't a clone either. I do like your comparison, but it doesn't work because for Rei we begin with Lilith.

The clones are soulless in NGE, just like the EVA's. So we import Rei's soul into the clone body which animates Rei. So there's always the same soul in circulation that is affected by it all. It's a reverse ascension because Rei starts out as Lilith, gets forced into a human-like body, and then goes back in the series finale.

>He has identity problems to say the least.
Cloning has that effect on people, even observers.

>>15287691
That video and the scenes after show that they are fairly shocked.

They thought she died, and they were right. But only a few of them know that she can be brought back.

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>>15287999
>They could be non-genetic. In the same ways that clones have different fingerprints to the base, red eyes and blue hair might just be side effects of being a test tube babies, perhaps a melanin deficiency?
Or, you know, the parent tissue being used is a fucking GOD ALIEN THINGY!

>>15288199
>The clones are soulless in NGE, just like the EVA's. So we import Rei's soul into the clone body which animates Rei.
This is why I state Rei Q is a different "Rei" than the original, she's somehow developing her own soul or something.

>>15288282
Or she already has her own soul. It doesn't really matter because there's no story here. The point of Rei Q is to ruin Rei's character, just like the point of Asuka being some super-girl in the new canon is suppoesd to glorify Asuka.

>>15287999
>one Idaho "ascends",
wait isn't that the shit books the son made

>>15288282
If the parent tissue is a god alien thingy, then Rei is DEFINITELY not a clone of Yui.

I feel like people are getting too hung up on the word clone here. Even if she doesn't meet the technical definition of a clone, she is still more than enough Yui for any relationship with Shinji to be incestuous. Its only a matter of the degree, whether she is enough Yui to count as his mom, or merely a sister.

Also, aside from the pallet swap she still LOOKS like Yui so its still weird. Ritsuko's mom noticed the resemblance as far back as Rei I.

>>15288312
>incest
Fuck off to evageeks, shipper. You're the ones spreading lies about Evangelion.

As if your obsession with shipping wasn't bad enough, you're wrong too.

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>>15288329

>>15288312
>I feel like people are getting too hung up on the word clone here.

The only ones hung up on Rei as a clone are the ones that keep insisting that Rei x Shinji is incestuous. It's such a stupid, fanbase-wrecking position to take because Rei and Shinji are never an item in the original series, and NGE was never about making couples to begin with. It'd never be a problem. But you've got fuckos like yourself trying to push a lie everywhere because you're fucked up in the head.

>>/tumblr/
>>/evageeks/

>>15288346
Looks like I hit the nail on it's head. Back to evageeks with you, idiot. FYI Asuka is a shit character, take that back with you.

>>15288329
>>15288348
>>15288353

Anon, I think you need a juice box and a sit down. You are just blindly lashing out at people at this point.

I bet you can't even make a post that explains a position without just spouting Ad hominem insults in your current state.

>>15288372
>>15288348 here. I think that goes for you, not me because I did explain my position. There's also a lot of information from others in this thread. I don't really need to hear any more to understand what you're about, though. Evangelion is an old franchise and it's fans are well known.

I could make another post if it makes you feel better though, but it'd only hammer it home that you're a fucko.

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>>15288372
Not blindly. Anyone who keeps spamming shipping crap is a waifufag from evageeks, that much everyone knows.

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>>15288386
>>15288391

I rest my case.

>>15288348
Read the thread.

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>>15288329
Here's why you're wrong: if you weren't hung up on Rei being a clone of Yui, you wouldn't insist on it despite the original story never having a mention of it, and explicitly makes it impossible by making Rei not human. Yui was a human. It's really that simple.

The "Rei is a clone of Yui!"-rhetoric has for ages existed as the angry outbursts from insecure Asuka fans who don't find anything interesting in Evangelion besides shipping Asuka x Shinji. So because they're threatened by Rei's superior character, they need to attack Rei every chance they get. Asuka breeds a particularly vile type of otaku, the one that's obsessed and doesn't have any scruples, going as far as editing wikis and spamming falsehoods, mass-voting online polls and so on to make Asuka appear more popular.

EoE was right about Asuka fans, that they are only interested in Asuka as a sex object, which is why she's used as a sex-relief puppet in the beginning of the movie - lying there resistless as Shinji takes advantage of her. Not interested in the person, but Asuka as a sex fantasy despite how messed up she is.

>>15288415

I hope to god you are trolling, because if you are for real the level of delusion you are in right now is unhealthy. There is something wrong with you if you cling that tightly to any anime girl, it doesn't matter who it is.

>>15288434
Not trolling, the Asuka fans are really that bad. Just check out the picture, or visit Evageeks some time.

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>>15288415
>EoE was right about Asuka fans, that they are only interested in Asuka as a sex object, which is why she's used as a sex-relief puppet in the beginning of the movie - lying there resistless as Shinji takes advantage of her. Not interested in the person, but Asuka as a sex fantasy despite how messed up she is.

Anno used to be cool once. What happened?

>>15288346
Anyone got the original "butthurt asukafag detected" version?

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>>15288434
>>15288372
>>15288346
>>15288312

Ok, this thread went far enough with evafags contaminating /m/ with this austistic shitposting


>I call upon thee God of Death Janitor, This thread is UNCLEAN!

>>15288415
meant for >>15288372

obviously.

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>>15287999

Man I stopped reading Dune after the whole mind-control-via-sex-lol bullshit.

It just went off the rails for me.

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It certainly is a phenomenon in all walks of life.

At one point you got it - and then you lose it. It's gone forever. All walks of life.

>but anno's new stuff wasn't bad

Even for those who give him sympathy votes, deep in their hearts they know it's just shite.

>>15276856
that and Fuyutsuki revealing infobombs to Shinji that would make any other regular person kill themselves on the spot

>>15288208
But they do see her alive afterwards.

>>15288915
Yeah, but they thought she died. Then she "miraculously survives."

>>15289124
I'm not sure about anyone else, but that would set off my bullshit alarms, especially as they see her unhurt. You can't try and argue that "they saw her die but believe without question that she survived", unless Seele or Gendo are that overpoweringly influential over them that they keep their fucking mouths shut, which at least doesn't appear to be the case. What was the point of this "discussion" again?

>>15289219
Shinji, Misato and the people who don't know believe it. They didn't see Rei die, and when they see Rei alive, that's proof she survived. Ritsuko knows she's dead of course, but the main characters excluding Rei don't.

>What was the point of this "discussion" again?
What's the point of any discussion? Did you learn something today?

>>15289240
She fucking exploded though

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>>15289243
The EVA exploded. They do initiate rescue operations, and the plug suit was still there to be retrieved. They could have just said they found her badly damaged, and that she needed hospitalizing. So she's hospitalized, they put some bandages on her for visual effect, and call it a day.

After all, it's not the first miraculous recovery Rei or the other children has had.

That's what happened in the show, and they'd have gotten away for it to if it weren't for those darned kids

>>15289249
But didn't Maya and co. say they couldn't see the pilot's vitals?

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>>15289259
Some times the blast from a self-destructing EVA which creates electromagnetic shock will do that.

>>15289266
No, I'm pretty sure she said it in a way that would confirm she died

>>15289272
Ritsuko said "if there's anything left", which pisses Misato off. Misato starts salvage operations, Ritsuko goes in to cover up the evidence of Rei's death, and tricks Misato into believing she survived.

>>15289280
Naruhodo.

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>>15289283
So da ne, senpai.

>>15289294
It's Sou da ne, retard.

>>15289298
Naruhodo.

>>15288307
Well you'd think it would be obvious.

People keep saying 'she's a clone! but she has 50% of person A's DNA, and 50% of person B's!'

We normally just fuckin' call those 'children'. Where do you fags think your DNA came from?

Now granted, person B in this case is some unnatural space abomination, so she's certainly some sort of hybrid crime against nature, and they seemd to have cloned several copies OF her, but presumably from the template Rei or what have you, not Yui.

>>15289339
But it was never stated in the show she only had 50%

>>15289339
It's the result of shipper brainwashing, just check out >>15288312

The point is to defend for instance Shinji x Asuka or Kaworu x Shinji by invalidating other ships. The same happens the other way, for instance the eternal mantra from shippers that the other characters are shit and whatnot. If you think Gundam fanbase wars are bad, you ain't seen the savagery of an angry Asukafag out to justify his fantasy escapist ship.

You can't reason with these types, and if you try to, they'll start flinging insults or just disappear, just to be back the next day saying the same thing.

>>15289342
It was never stated that Rei was a clone of Yui, so there's no point in claiming it. It was shown that Rei isn't human, and if Yui is human, then Rei cannot logically be a clone. Plus Rei has all sorts of non-human abilities like AT-field projection, regeneration, and levitation.

>>15289351
She was linked to Yui a bunch of times, so it was at least implied she was a clone of Yui.

>>15289357
It was never implied, since Rei is introduced as a ghost with blue hair, red eyes and pale pigmentation in episode 1. Supernatural since the start.

>>15289351
Clones also usually don't magically change hair, eye, and skin tones either last I checked.

And even if she's part Yui... so what? What actually changes other than Gendou's interactions with her growing extra creepy? Shinji barely remembers his mom at all, certainly never knew her as a schoolgirl, and they didn't grow up together so the Westermarck effect is out of luck. At that point it MIGHT cause issues if they start breeding (not every case of inbreeding pops out deformed retards, it just dramatically spikes the odds) and hybrids often CAN'T breed, so it may never be an issue.

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>>15289371
Fuck the shipping part.

On another thing that's worth mentioning, is that Rei is 14 years old in 2015. Despite being born some time after 2004. Now i dont math so good, but that dont add up. Accelerated growth, man. Definite proof of genetic tampering.

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>>15288290
>The point of Rei Q is to ruin Rei's character
Dude, seriously, quit with the /x/ bullshit...

>>15289371
>Clones also usually don't magically change hair, eye, and skin tones either last I checked.
But Rei Q has less hair color than Rei...

>>15289395
>Fuck the shipping part.
Yeah, I think that's why the Rei-fag going so damned insane with the "WAH, ANNO MADE 3.0 TO RUIN MUH WAIFU!"

Rei Q ain't Rei, Shinji outright says that himself, she is exploring the aspect of a Rei series artificial human who is somehow NOT the Rei we've seen in the previous films.
She's her own separate character, like the THREE SEPARATE active Rei's from Anima.

>>15289359
Everyone thinks she's a clone

>>15289466
>Yeah, I think that's why the Rei-fag going so damned insane with the "WAH, ANNO MADE 3.0 TO RUIN MUH WAIFU!"

You've got it all wrong. That Anno is trying to ruin Rei is common sense. A child could see it. This thread is one butthurt asukafag and one retarded namefag making up fanon.

>>15289471
This thread clearly shows otherwise. >>15289345 explains it well, and >>15288312 shows it in action, it's just evangelion fantards being butthurt at Rei and therefore making up shit.

>>15289477
You're the only one who doesn't think she's a clone.

>>15289483
This thread clearly shows otherwise.

>>15289485
It shows you samefagging against a bunch of anons who agree with you, yeah.

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>>15289466
Man, when are you going to wisen up and stop being retarded? Anno is a well known otaku whose preference in eva characters has been known for nearly twenty years. Rei Q was crafted solely to be a stick in Rei's wheels, just like the new Asuka was made to grease Asuka's.

You've been proven wrong already by multiple people in this thread, and the facts fly straight in your face. You've completely lost it if you think you can actually keep shitposting like this without being called out.

>>15289492
It's not samefagging when someone agrees with you. Are you new or something? Care to put your money where your mouth is by the way? Because clearly your only move left is ad hominem and off topic insane rambling. Your'e as bad as the Asukafags who ruin this fanbase with shipping and shitposting at this rate, take that crap to /a/.

>>15289495
>Rei Q was crafted solely to be a stick in Rei's wheels, just like the new Asuka was made to grease Asuka's.
This would hold water if Asuka (and pretty much everyone else Shinji knew) didn't come off as a huge bitch for no reason in 3.x.

Although I guess she's still not as bad as Misato 'time to shit on you for doing what I told you to do last movie' Katsuragi.

>>15289504
>This would hold water if Asuka (and pretty much everyone else Shinji knew) didn't come off as a huge bitch for no reason in 3.x.
It holds water because Asuka and everyone else are better off than they were in NGE. Wake up and smell the pixies, anon.

>>15289501
But the only one agreeing with you is yourself.

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>>15289504
Asuka's got new redesigns, plenty of fights, keeps being more successful than she was in NGE, is unharmed while the rest are in shambles, she's got super-powers now, is some sort of angel.... the list goes on.

>>15289513
No, that'd be you if anything. Now fuck off to evageeks, loser.

>>15289509
>asuka
>better in 3.0
I'm pretty sure she ditched the dere and went full tsun, is that what autistic boys like these days?

>>15289521
Considering how popular tsundere is, then I'd guess that's true. Tsundere was popular way before Asuka was even thought of. But anyway, you smell like an ignorant Asukafag so I don't really expect you to be reasonable or accept the facts.

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>>15289521
>>15289504
Rebuild secondary detected. Original Asuka was a disaster who fucked up at everything. She was weak and pathetic, and that was the point of the character. Rebuilds version strips away the weakness, copies the more popular aspects of other characters and then adds a metric tonne of fanservice. Plus it ruins other characters so Asuka will look better by juxtaposition. Rei Q was made to give Asuka an "inferior" Rei to boss around, while simultaneously weakening Rei's character into the irredeemable.

>>15289509
>It holds water because Asuka and everyone else are better off than they were in NGE.
Did you just stop watching after 2.whatever?

>>15289515
>all this good stuff happens to her!
But she's garbage as a character by 3.xx so who cares?

>>15289519
Not an argument.

>>15289532
>But she's garbage as a character by 3.xx so who cares?
Certainly not Asuka fans. They never cared about Asuka's character beyond it's shipping potential at all. Given that she's more popular than the original Asuka, it's safe to say Rebuild's only point is to pander.

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>>15289532
>Did you just stop watching after 2.whatever?
Have you watched anything but Rebuild anon? Be honest.

>>15289521
That's what the asuka fanboys want to see though, tsundere moe waifu. Rebuild is written specifically to deliver just that, and that's why it makes no sense as a movie or a story so far. Character is more important for characters like Rei, as without it, you've got a cliche that's not intrinsically popular like more common anime stereotypes.

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>>15289533
>>15289513
>>15289492
>>15289483
>>15289471

>>15289540
Have you? Since obviously she wasn't very dead by the end of that mess. Hell, she even got to be happy for a brief moment before the MP Evas tore her to bits.

Yes, yes, I get it, 'LESS BAD THINGS HAPPEN TO MUH WAIFU!' in Rebuild, even including 3's trash fire, but all the things that would make any of that meaningful are lost since she as a character is a trash fire. If that's all you care about then you're watching the wrong series, bud.

>>15289554
>Yes, yes, I get it, 'LESS BAD THINGS HAPPEN TO MUH WAIFU!' in Rebuild, even including 3's trash fire,

So if you get it, and you know there's no meaning to Rebuild otherwise, then shut the fuck up cunt. Rebuild is trash precisely because of people like you who just want waifu pandering and then pretend it's not happening when you get it, because you need it to be "deep". You're waifu being shit is your own fault, it's what you wanted.

Next time, smile and agree because it's the right thing to do.

>>15289561
Are you seriously so butthurt about your waifu problems that you mistook me >>15289554 for someone saying Rebuild was better? Fuck off.

>>15289563
No, those are your waifu problems asshat. I'm talking to >>15289554 who claims he's aware 3 is trash but refuses to acknowledge why - hard pandering to the worst part of the eva fanbase, Asuka fans. If your'e just going to shit up the thread, go to /b/.

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Oh, it's just a Reifag. My fault for taking it seriously.

>>15289572
see >>15289552

>>15289570
>hard pandering to the worst part of the eva fanbase, Asuka fans
Oh, you actually believe this. Wooooow.

3.x had a lot of fucking problems, but 'waifu pandering' was near the bottom of the pile in importance.

>>15289554
>>15289563
>>15289572
Waifu wars aside, you can't rationally or logically dismiss what he says. The Rebuilds heavily favor Asuka and Anno's favorites over hm, less favored eva characters.

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You poor soul. That is like aids, it just keeps spreading. Make your life easier and just don't question it.

>>15289585
And here comes the samefagging again.

>>15289583
I'm sort of surprised you don't think waifu pandering is the top problem with the Rebuilds.

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>>15289583
>he doesn't understand the rebuilds

3.33's problems are there for sure, but they all come from a central problem: waifu pandering. There isn't time to use a whole movie to focus on kaworu, a "waifu" in his own right, or husbando if you will. It'll guarantee shallow characters and a wrecked story, and that's what happened. The excessive focus on pandering to waifufags and shippers killed it. Pick a problem with the 3.33 story and I can tell you how it is (or in some case, isn't) related to waifu pandering.

>>15289585
>The Rebuilds heavily favor Asuka and Anno's favorites over hm, less favored eva characters.
Asuka didn't even show up in 1.

Pretty much everyone seemed to be getting love in 2, arguably I'd say Asuka wasn't even the top of the pile there.

Asuka 'does cool things', I guess, I barely remember WHAT she does anymore, but is an utterly unlikable bitch in 3.

Some pandering.

>>15289591
Hm. Like I said, you can't rationally or logically disprove what he says, and countering with accusations isn't helping your side very much. If you disagree, you can tell us why.

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>>15289605
You underestimate just how much of an unlikable bitch Asuka was in the original Evangelion. She was much worse there, and Asuka's character can't be made "better" without chopping off parts of the character, which is what shippers and waifufagging Asukafans do anyway. As if that wasn't bad enough, the original Asuka was a complete failure at life who ends up trying to kill herself, fails at doing that and then slips into a coma. Episode 26 ends without her ever slipping out of it.

Rebuild proved that it never had the intention of developing characters or telling a story with 3.33 since it abandoned the characters to being pandering devices. So you're damned straight that giving Asuka a host of superpowers, removing her flaws and giving her cool battles and tons of new weapons becomes insignificant. Plus it destroyed Asuka's arch nemesis in the fandom, Rei.

"Some pandering" you say dismissively, but I don't like it either you know. But it's what Asuka fans wanted and its' what they got: an Asuka that isn't a failure which doesn't look like a frozen turd compared to Rei, and actually has a chance to beat Rei in popularity polls. That's how otaku think, and those are the people who make Rebuild AND the ones who buy it.

>>15289624
She was just a little girl, leave her alone

>>15289667
Take it with evangelion. That's what happened, and Asukafags are delusional idiots who are butthurt about it.

>>15289673
Calling her things like bitch isn't nice.

>>15289676
It's the truth though. The truth isn't nice. That's why Rebuild exists for you to escape into a fantasy where you aren't hurt.

>>15289680
It's not the truth, you're just butthurt and jealous.

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>>15289667
>>15289676
Here's why you're full of shite though, there's been a lot of people calling Asuka an unlikable bitch in this thread like these: >>15289605 >>15289504
but you focus on the only guy actually telling the truth. You're biased and stupid, original Asuka was a bitch. Deal with it.

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>>15289685
I've got the screencaps to prove it mate, but I'm going with >>15289691 . You're clearly butthurt and jealous yourself. Asuka was always an unlikable bitch, which is why the Rebuild retcons the original to pander to idiots like you who didn't like the original Asuka.

>>15289691
This, the hypocrisy in Asukafags is absolutely disgusting. It's OK for Asukafags to call Asuka an "unlikeable bitch", but when some other anon does it in reference to the Asukafag, it's suddenly bullying. Thanks for demonstrating why Asukafags are cancer.

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>>15289395
She's wee for 9 years old when she appears in 2010, too, but eh. Eva and scale. That's the interpretation I hear most often, that Gendo created Rei after the salvage operation or she was a byproduct of it, and Fuyutsuki says so in Rebuild, but NGE didn't nail it down like that. She could just as credibly have been made that week or while Yui was alive to empty out Lilith before they started vivisecting it.

>>15289691
>>15289698
>>15289710
All me, btw

>>15289521
>>15289546
My question was "does Eva's current audience like a girl who isn't a tsundere because there's no dere", not "do they like tsundere". NGE, 1.0, and 2.0 definitely had Asuka as a tsundere character, but in 3.0 she's kind of a "strong independent" bitch, no hint of the dere at all.
>>15289525
I thought in NGE Asuka had better character development, but the character itself was flakier. Probably more realistic/less idealised-fanservicy though.

>>15289585
Let me correct that: 3.0 heavily favours Asuka

wow an eva thread turning into a waifu shitposting thread, I never saw that coming

>>15289624
OP here, I liked Asuka and didn't think Shinji was a whiny little bitch? Very flawed characters, sure, but I fucking hated Kaworu because he seemed to have no flaws when everyone else is a sad broken individual.
Likability/unlikability is relative.

Still haven't seen rebuild and after this thread don't intend to. It seems every character was dumbed down and sexualised to appeal more for the merchandise market (which I have no idea why it's so big for eva. Everyone wants a statue of a half naked mentally ill 14 year old?).

>>15289837
I think he was supposed to be a gary stu because he was an angel.
The whole angels are perfect thing.

It's been a while since I've seen it, and I only saw 1.0 so can't say for sure.

>>15289837
Hey Shinji wasn't very sexualised, I'll have you know!

>>15289863
yeah he was, he's even wearing a kinky collar and dress in the newest movie

>>15289504
>This would hold water if Asuka (and pretty much everyone else Shinji knew) didn't come off as a huge bitch for no reason in 3.x.
>Although I guess she's still not as bad as Misato 'time to shit on you for doing what I told you to do last movie' Katsuragi.
Exactly...
Hell, ORIGINAL REI is the only character from the previous Rebuilds who DIDN'T get shat on, because Rei Q is a SEPARATE CHARACTER TO BEGIN WITH and everyone besides Toji sister or Kaworu is either a bitch or Emo.

>>15289583
>3.x had a lot of fucking problems, but 'waifu pandering' was near the bottom of the pile in importance.
Indeed, I'm really worried this person is seriously mentally disturbed that they're so rabidly jumping to Rei's defense for an IMAGINED slight...

>>15289837
>I fucking hated Kaworu because he seemed to have no flaws when everyone else is a sad broken individual.
Indeed, there's more of an argument to be made that 3 was for Kaworu pandering, because he's LITERALLY THE FILMS MESSIANIC FIGURE!

>>15289861
Everyone but Shinji reacted like he smelled bad, Seele played him like a fiddle, then he guessed their plan and his importance to it wrong.

Why do hardcore Reifags have such a persecution complex?

Anyone who disagrees with them is an Asukafag, any time anything bad happens to Rei its an attack from Anno himself, etc.

Like, chill the fuck out guys. I liked Rei too, but you are making me look bad by association. Rei is a cool character with an interesting setup and I liked her story, but the shit you guys are talking about in this thread is a weird fanfiction version of the character.

>>15290054
It's just one guy.
Ignore him like the rest of us.

>>15289837

Kowaru had flaws, its just we didn't get a lot of time to see them because he was only around for half an episode. He was still a slave of Seele sent on a suicide mission he couldn't refuse, because by his very nature he didn't actually have free will.

He tells Shinji as much: if Shinji doesn't destroy him, he will seek out Adam and initiate third impact. He doesn't even want to do it, but its what he will do by his very nature.

Kowaru wasn't a sad sack because unlike most people, he knew his purpose in life. He had not illusions about what he was. But what he was was a bad thing for everyone else.

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>>15290083
I got the impression he was very suicidal, he was fucked up as well if you listen to what he says

>>15290092

The impression I got was that the Angels could only revive Adam by fusing with him and sacrificing themselves to wake him up. Like how Rei has to fuse with Lilith. Their mission was always going to end with their own death, its just a question of victory or defeat.

Kowaru had a developed enough personality to realize this, so he knows he isn't getting out of this alive either way. But if he isn't stopped, he would kill everyone else on Earth with his 'victory', when he actually seems to like humans.

Its a lose-lose scenario. Die and doom the angels, or die and doom the humans.

>>15290115
I don't think so, because Kaworu says in that same scene: "I am destined to live forever, however it is possible for me to be killed"
So it seems like he is immortal and would have continued to live had Shinji not stopped him.

But because he doesn't value life (considers it equal to death), he figures the humans deserve to live more than him because they do value it. He says, "You need the future". So he tells Shinji to erase him.

>>15273016
Godlike beings fighting over the earth is stupid. Char was right, drop Axis onto earth and wipe it all out baka

>>15290115
Except before then he's talking about human life as pointless suffering and not getting why they'd do things they didn't want to for survival like using evas. He only stopped after identifying Lilith and realizing it was impossible to proceed as planned and he doesn't mention it or the conspiracy that sent him or Rei while he's presenting the situation as an ultimatum.

>>15290228
Would merging with Lilith caused an impact too?
Did SEELE know Kaworu would stop once he figured it was Lilith? Because he easily was able to stop Eva 01 from attacking him, he seemed way too overpowered.

>>15290228
>it was impossible to proceed as planned and he doesn't mention it
Probably because Shinji wouldn't have killed him otherwise. Kaworu had to make it seem like if Shinji didn't kill him everyone else would die, otherwise he would have refused to do it.

>>15275191
>Except in Rebuild where they are literally the monoliths.

???

I watched the first three movies but hardly remember them. I don't even know if more than three have come out, but, really?

>>15290054
>>15290079
Pretty boring stuff from you. You can't argue or disprove what's being said, so concern trolling is what you're doing. The only idiots who look bad are the Asukafags pretending to not know what's going on, AKA you.

>>15289973
Whiteagle, you are one sick puppy. You can't seriously believe what you're writing? The writing has been on the wall for several movies and has been a well known fact in the fanbase for nearly twenty years. Let me destroy your post:

1. Kaworu IS a a pandering figure in 3.33, and so is Asuka. It's not an exclusive role.
2. You're an idiot if your defense is to make the distinction between original and rebuild Rei. The facts are that the representation of Rei's character has changed to a deeply disfavorable and unbalanced one in the Rebuilds.

So before you start making any claims about mental health, check on your own. You must have some sort of mental illness that you project on others.

>>15290831
>2. You're an idiot if your defense is to make the distinction between original and rebuild Rei. The facts are that the representation of Rei's character has changed to a deeply disfavorable and unbalanced one in the Rebuilds.
By "Original Rei" I am referring to the Rei Ayanami seen in Rebuilds 1 and 2, where as Rei Q is the white haired Rei seen in 3.

Rei in the first two movies develops much along the same lines as Rei from the series, perhaps a bit more so with the Dinner Party in 2, but we are then introduced to an ENTIRELY SEPARATE CHARACTER with the body of "Rei Ayanami" in the third film, often refereed to as "Rei Q" for convenience.

What you either fail or are purposely unwilling to grasp is that these TWO SEPARATE CHARACTERS are, in fact, TWO SEPARATE CHARACTERS, thus the behavior or performance of one does not necessarily affect the other.

Quiet honestly, you're either baiting or batshit crazy at this point.

>>15290733
For real. Gendo calls them souls that changed their form and older than civilization while Fuyutsuki's shutting them off, they leave afterimages of brains when they go out.

>>15290866
>By "Original Rei" I am referring to the Rei Ayanami seen in Rebuilds 1 and 2, where as Rei Q is the white haired Rei seen in 3.
>What you either fail or are purposely unwilling to grasp is that these TWO SEPARATE CHARACTERS are, in fact, TWO SEPARATE CHARACTERS, thus the behavior or performance of one does not necessarily affect the other.

What you don't seem to understand is that creating two characters where there was one before is necessarily the destruction of the character. In the most ideal scenario, we've got half the character we used to have, and Rebuild is anything but ideal at this stage. Now everyone has shut down your fanwank, and you should be able to concede that your understanding of the situation is wrong. There's been plenty of discussion above you can read which explains it to you calmly and in a well-worded manner.

People like you who dwell on anime forums and then discard any input you get, just to repeat the same mantra are usually one of two things: a fanboy or someone insane. You keep repeating rather pointlessly that "nothing happened", and "everything is fine" despite obvious evidence and proof to the contrary.

I don't know what's wrong with you, but you're clearly incapable of reason. Because what's presented is darned simple, but you'd rather stall and come with irrelevant arguments that don't add up than accept the truth. Are you underage or autistic by chance? Serious question. If you aren't, then whats wrong with you?

>>15290881
I think their normal form was shown in 1.0, but that could be me remembering wrong. Either way, it does seem that they ARE the monoliths in the Rebuilds.

>>15289744
Correct. NGE had more realistic characters. Also had better robots imo. Rebuild doesnt have that because its written specifically for the writers favorite character.

>>15290887
>What you don't seem to understand is that creating two characters where there was one before is necessarily the destruction of the character.
[citation needed]
>In the most ideal scenario, we've got half the character we used to have
Because they totally sawed Rei in half to clone another one.

For fuck's sake, do you not even know how math works?

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>>15290054
We dont have a persecution complex. We are just stating the facts here, and because you dont like them you scream persecution complex without any argument. Feigning neutrality like you do only hammers it in that you are wrong.

Attributing mistreatment of Rei's character to the self-admitted bias dof Anno against Rei is a matter of course. Denying it makes you more or less insane.

>>15290907
Your post doesnt have an argument anon. Are you ok? Because it sounds like you are having a stroke or something.

>hur dur sawe off in teo

Isnt rational.

>>15290907
Say you have one character for 20 episodes. Then you are able to develop that character for 20 episodes worth of content, right? But what if you split the character in two? Then you need to split the development between them, resulting in a lesser character.

20 / 1 = 20 points of potential character development per character.

20 / 2 = 10 points.

So there you have it, it is mathematically proven.

>>15290946
>>15290907
BTFO.

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>this whole thread
original series plus death and rebirth movies were decent
build movies 1 and 2 are great
3 is the worst piece of shit ever

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>>15292539
My nigga.

>>15272923
>now
They've been out for years now.

>>15292543
does that mean they aren't out now?

>>15292546
Depends on where you look, ESL kun.

>>15290147
Wow, what a poorly written character.

>>15292539
original series plus death and rebirth movies were great
rebuild movies 1 and 2 are weird
3 is weird shit

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>>15292786
>>15292541
>>15292539
All my negroes of african-american descent.

>>15292978
I think we should add a like button specifically for this Reifag to show their approval of a post.

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>>15292995
Triggered Asukafag detected.

>>15293009
Repost more garbage from offsite, please. You're making real, high-quality contributions to this board.

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>>15293014
Will some canon eva pics make you feel better?

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>>15293020
REKT

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>>15290881
>>15290887
>SEELE are now monoliths

Electronic old men

A NEW AGE

>>15290887
>I think their normal form was shown in 1.0
If you mean the color coded committee around a table then no, they exclusively appear in SOUND ONLY. The voice is the same but Keel's name and face don't appear anywhere in Rebuild.

>>15293020
>>15293024
>18:15:21
>18:16:35
I'd really appreciate it if you could wait more than 14 seconds after the cooldown to samefag.

Mr. Anno is just like Hideo Kojima. You're never really sure if he's a genius or just a fucking retard

>>15288298
No, it's in Chapterhouse, the second best Frank Herbert novel.

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>>15290228
Kaworu is somewhere between retarded and evil.

>>15293087
How's that insecurity coming along?

>>15293998
That's not Destination:Void

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>>15290887
>What you don't seem to understand is that creating two characters where there was one before is necessarily the destruction of the character. In the most ideal scenario, we've got half the character we used to have
Yeah:
>>15290907
>[citation needed]

>Because they totally sawed Rei in half to clone another one.
Indeed, hell Rebuild's Rei got nearly as much development in the first to films as her series counterpart, and actually got MORE THAN FUCKING REBUILD ASUKA, who by this Rei-niac own logic was herself degraded by the introduction of Mari...

>>15290908
>Attributing mistreatment of Rei's character to the self-admitted bias dof Anno against Rei is a matter of course.
If Anno hates Rei so damn much, how come he decided to include a Rei analog when he did Shin Godzilla?

>>15292539
>3 is the worst piece of shit ever
Yeah, the real argument is WHY it's such a piece of shit.
Insane Rei-fags are screaming it's because Anno has some nefarious plot against his own character, but don't realize that character was SHINJI and not Rei.

>>15294951
>Yeah, the real argument is WHY it's such a piece of shit.

The "why" is easy, it's a piece of shit because that neferious plot is against Rei. Shinji is punished not because he is Shinji, oh no - he is punished because he tried to save Rei.

>>15294951
This

>>15294951

Reifags scream tot he sky about Rebuild 3 because the plot of it confirms something that they have been denying for years: that Rei is a a series of clones who are different entities rather than a single continuous character.

The fact that Rei Q is a separate character from the Rei that died in Rebuild 2 means that when a Rei dies the next Rei isn't a continuation of the previous. It means that Rei II died fighting Armisael and Rei III was someone else.

This is something that was already kind of obvious to a lot of people, but the most hardcore Reifags convinced themselves this wasn't true and was some kind of organized conspiracy against them. By making the situation explicit in Rebuild 3, the delusional Reifag has no option but to decry the movie as character assassination and latch on to any detail they can spin into a sign of favoritism. They have to rationalize this as being new and unfair, instead of proof that they were wrong all along.

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Actually guys, just figured this out after my last post.
The reason the insane Rei-fag is unable to comprehend WHY it isn't some bizarre attempt at assassinating Rei's character and instead Shinji's whiny ass that makes 3 shit us because HE IS SHINJI!

>>15294965
>Shinji is punished not because he is Shinji, oh no - he is punished because he tried to save Rei.
SEE?!
God damn it Shinji, I know 3 shat on you hard, but quit being such a damn bitch about it...

We get it, Rei Q isn't "MUH REI," but you don't have to be such a conceded ass about it.

>>15295028
Couldn't have stated it better myself.
It also directly states Rei's connection to Yui, which was extremely obvious in NGE as well but of course Reifags denied it

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>>15295028
>Reifags scream tot he sky about Rebuild 3 because the plot of it confirms something that they have been denying for years: that Rei is a a series of clones who are different entities rather than a single continuous character.
>The fact that Rei Q is a separate character from the Rei that died in Rebuild 2 means that when a Rei dies the next Rei isn't a continuation of the previous. It means that Rei II died fighting Armisael and Rei III was someone else.
Eh, I'd give Rei's 2 and 3 semi-continuality, Rei 3 clearly see's herself as a continuation of the second incarnation...

But yeah, it does show that such a thing could and now does happen, Rei 1 wasn't Rei 2 and Rei (do to being trapped in the Robot) left nothing for Rei Q to build off of.

>>15295039
>It also directly states Rei's connection to Yui, which was extremely obvious in NGE as well but of course Reifags denied it
Yeah, I tend not to ship Shinji and Rei due to the obvious Oedipus complex it invokes, but then again my shipping is more sapphic in flavor...

>>15295039
>>15295028
>>15295101
Retcons hardly count.

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>>15294951
>[citation needed]
was given here: >>15290946

>Indeed, hell Rebuild's Rei got nearly as much development in the first to films as her series counterpart
Not true. Rei was there from episode 1 to episode 26, and wasn't cut out half way.

>and actually got MORE THAN FUCKING REBUILD ASUKA
Yes, because Rebuild decided to go full haywire in ditching the characters.

>If Anno hates Rei so damn much, how come he decided to include a Rei analog when he did Shin Godzilla?
Bullshit, nonsense and not an argument.

>Yeah, the real argument is WHY it's such a piece of shit.
>Insane Rei-fags are screaming it's because Anno has some nefarious plot against his own character, but don't realize that character was SHINJI and not Rei.

More like Rei-haters such as yourself screaming to protect 3.33 because it panders to you. You've been unable to disprove the facts so far.

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>>15295157
>Bullshit, nonsense and not an argument.
If he hates Rei SO god damn much, while is there a Rei analog in the movie he made for an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT FRANCHISE?!?!

>More like Rei-haters such as yourself screaming to protect 3.33 because it panders to you. You've been unable to disprove the facts so far.
Son, I've yet to even see 3.33, and have been one of the ones posting the most Rei pics IN this thread, and you are so god damn delusional you can't see that 3 is shit because Shinji apparently lost the spine he grew at the end of 2 somewhere in Eva 01...

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>>15295028
>>15295038
>>15294951
Your posts are definite proof of the opposite though. If Anno writes something in the future, it doesn't loop back and change the past. Otherwise, you'd be suggesting that for instance, Asuka was always mixed with an Angel, or that Mari existed, or that "Beast Mode" existed - which we all know aren't true. The same goes for Rei's cloning situation which has changed.

The truth is that people such as Whiteeagle and>>15295028 are the people who couldn't deal with or accept the original Evangelion as it was. The Rei character was presented in such a way that it was undeniably superior to their favorite characters, mostly Asuka - which drove them mad with envy. Result being, they started spreading nefarious lies and false interpretations of Evangelion in order to strenghten their position. The past twenty years have been for the otaku of Eva to rampantly deny the canon of the original, to replace it with doujin material such as Re-Take - where Asuka is by the way, conveniently made an Angel. The envy in the Asuka fans is especially visible in how they criticize Rei's alien nature but crave it themselves for Asuka in their doujins, a doujin which most Asuka fans profess as "canon".

Now because the Asuka fans don't understand or have interest in Evangelion beyond shipping, they need to attack characters like Rei with fanon in order to fend off their own insecurity with their own ships.

The situation of 3.33 is that nearly everyone hated it EXCEPT those it panders to - which would be the Asuka fans in this case, and it's precisely why they are it's loudest defenders. It gives them precisely what they wants, but also drops all the quality in it's story. 3.33 ended up being the ultimate proof that virtually no Asuka fan can be taken seriously, as there's always a shipping agenda behind their interpretations.

>>15295200
>If he hates Rei SO god damn much, while is there a Rei analog in the movie he made for an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT FRANCHISE?!?!
There isn't a Rei analog, there's just you making stuff up. Even if there were, it wouldn't change a single thing about Evangelion. Think about how weak your position is if you need to drag in other franchises.

>Son, I've yet to even see 3.33
Then your argument is invalid. Congratulations.

>>15295202
>where Asuka is by the way, conveniently made an Angel
No she's not, Shinji is the angel.

>>15295207
She's made into some ghostly figure that watches Shinji, practically an Angel like Rei. Remember how Rei did that in NGE? Asuka fans are just angry their waifu was worse than Rei and less popular, which is why their favorite doujin attack other characters and literally copies Rei.

You've got to admit, Asuka fans are horrible people and the worst in this fanbase.

>>15295218
So you went from claiming she is an angel to practically an angel?
Kek.

>>15295219
So you've gone from being butthurt, to being a butthurt nitpicker now? Sweet, but the point I made originally stands. Asuka fans are just retards that hate the original NGE and need doujins to get by, and when 3.33 panders to them they naturally scream and shout in joy.

Despite the fact that it's more or less universally agreed that it's a worse story in every single way, and that Asuka is just fetish fuel. The truth is that Asuka fans never, ever cared about the character beyond fap-material, which is what makes the EoE scene so fitting.

>>15295226
She's not an angel in Re-take, dumb idiot.

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>>15295039
>>15295038

No, Rebuild and the other spinoffs are de facto retcons. They introduce new characters, change existing characters, and don't connect linearly or logically to the original in any way. The thing about the Evangelion fanbase is that especially Asukafags are into shipping because it's the only thing they really have.

They can't claim Asuka was better than Rei.
They can't claim Asuka was more successful than Rei.
They can't claim Asuka was stronger than Rei.

They can't even claim Asuka was strong in general, or even anything but a puppet. They're initially only interested in Asuka because she's a cute tsundere, and when reality hits them in the face, they couldn't survive as fans without rampantly denying it. This is why Asuka's character resolution in NGE is about rejecting the "fake" Asuka. Something Asuka otaku can't do.

It's also why 3.33 is the ultimate in pandering. It gives Asuka fans the "fake" Asuka they pretend exist over the original - hence Asuka's name change possibly. In the same way, they get a Rei that is not Rei, so they can get the version of Rei they always wanted but never had from the original.

In regards to Rei being a clone of Yui, as mentioned here >>15285107
and shown here >>15285899
we've already proven that it was not the case. Only butthurt Asukashippers spread their fanwank into the fanbase and deluded themselves that it was the truth.

3.33 has become a practical way of outing people who didn't like the original Evangelion or had deep seated issues with the original when it comes to their own fucked up mentality. If they like it, particularly for those reasons you mentioned which are self-contradicting and objectively wrong on every level, then you're a delusional Rei-hating Asukafag. Of course you'd love 3.33, it was made for you.

Asuka is objectively cuter than Rei

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>>15295233
She's like Rei, and it conveniently shows how Asuka fans are otaku waifufags who simply pick Asuka because it's the directors favorite, then shit on everything else, and then proceed to project the greatness of other characters onto Asuka.

Asuka is a vessel for venting otaku sexual frustrations onto a lifeless, personality-less moldable anime girl, as was shown in this scene in EoE.

>>15295251
She's not an angel in Re-take, and you can't even admit you were wrong kek

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>>15295202
>The Rei character was presented in such a way that it was undeniably superior to their favorite characters, mostly Asuka
Fucker I've been posting the most Rei pics IN this thread, you're off your damn rocker if you think my favorite is Asuka...

>>15295204
>There isn't a Rei analog, there's just you making stuff up.
There is, her name is Hiromi Ogashira, outright called by many as being Rei Ayanami as portrayed by a live action actress.
She is also the fandoms favorite character due to having some of the best snarky lines, CUTEST SMILE, and being far more believably portrayed compared to the Asuka analog Kayoko Ann Patterson.

>Even if there were, it wouldn't change a single thing about Evangelion.
Very true, except the argument has been that Hideko Anno, Creator of Evangelion and Writer/Director of Shin Godzilla, made Rebuild 3 as some sort of Character Assassination piece against Rei Ayanami and that's why it's so shitty, but the reality is that it really can't have anything do with why 3 was shitty as he continues to keep using this character archetype that HE created!

>>15295255
It's beyond the point, to be honest I don't even know if I'm wrong or not. It's been a long time, but I remember that she was present like Rei was. You can't even admit that I'm right.

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>>15295262
>Fucker I've been posting the most Rei pics IN this thread, you're off your damn rocker if you think my favorite is Asuka...

Posting pictures doesn't prove anything, your attitude does.

>>15295268
You falsely said she's an angel.
You're such a coward you can't even recede on that.

>>15295262
I don't see the resemblance. Rei isn't snarky but expressionless and nearly dead inside.

>>15295290
I already acknowledged that she may not be an Angel in Re-Take, but like I said, the point was that Re-Take is still a manifestation of Asukafag butthurt and envy of Rei.