What did /m/ think of Kill la Kill?

>>15255762
I dropped it.

>>15255762
Pretty good.

Was fun, better than TTGL.

>>15255762
had its moments but by the end it got old
wasted potential desu

>>15255762
Didn't like it. Pretty disappointing after TTGL.

>>15255762
It was the most Go Nagai thing by someone not named Go Nagai in recent years.

Nonon best girl.

I agree with this dude:
>>15255809
I kept saying there should be another Imaishi x Nakashima series but with Sushio designs and I was fucking hyped as shit but it just turned out... alright. It really lacked a coherent core theme the way shit like Gurren and Fourze had.

>>15255809
>>15255793
I liked the characters and humor more in KLK and it had a more interesting concept, but it dropped the ball on the animation.

>>15255830
Budget aside, GL seemed more playful to me. A lot of KLK's animation felt like animators trying to enforce "the Trigger brand of animation" with Hori just being a less impressive Yoshinari and a lot of the animation just being pretty stock modenr anime Kanada style. GL had some really interesting animator styles thrown in that complemented the tone of various scenes/episodes that I felt was mostly lacking in KLK.

>>15255823
I thought it had a pretty strong central theme.
It was about staying true to yourself and choosing your own path despite social expectations.
And similarly to how TTGL was about finding a balance between new and old, KLK was about finding a middle ground between opposites and the strength that comes from embracing differences: nudity and clothing, black and white, chaos and order, etc.

>>15255881
>It was about staying true to yourself and choosing your own path despite social expectations.
FUNNILY ENOUGH I was one of the people saying that early on, and I feel ep 3 made a good case for that theme; but it really lost me as it went along. I'd compare Simon's speech in ep 27 to Ryuko's final speech; the former perfectly summarized the message of "evolution = past + present coming together to drill a whole towards tomorrow" while the latter was, well... Ragyo's response was perfectly reasonable. It was nonsense.

Nakashima also seems to take KLK less seriously than GL. With GL he said he wishes people saw it as more than just "fuck yeah manly drills" but with KLK, he pretty much admitted he had no core theme in mind like with GL and just made things up as he went along. I also asked someone to bring up a common fan theory about what KLK's message is and his response was basically "you're overthinking it". Pretty different from his comments on GL.

>>15255910
>>15255881
Oh and while I'm not one to say "ugh stop over-reading things" about stuff like Gurren Lagann or FLCL I think it really does apply to KLK. What makes it worse is that it came along when "nerd culture" started getting annoyingly political so everyone has to read insane shit into it like "Ragyo represents internalized misogyny and the clothing aliens represent the patriarchy THIS IS THE AUTHORIAL INTENT IF YOU DON'T THINK SO YOU ARE DUMB"

>>15255910
But it did stay consistent with its message. Mako's episode encapsulates it perfectly, and the entire second half, where the villain is a mother forcing her daughter into "marriage" to erase all differences between individuals into a single piece of cloth, is also really blatant. Ryuko CHOOSING to wear Senketsu after finding out the truth, opposed to just accepting her father's legacy like it happened in the first episode, is also fundamental.
As for the final speech, it ties into the "we're utterly incomprehensible" catchphrase and to Ryuko and Senketsu erasing difference between humans and clothing and embodying the duality I mentioned before. It's an affirmation of individuality and contradiction that clashes with Ragyo's unwillingness to compromise her "truths of the universe".

it's shit

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>>15255983
Man, I dunno. I just think the metaphor, as you're seeing it, even if Nakashima came out and said "that's what KLK means", feels like a huge stretch. I get what you're saying but it doesn't really add up for me. What you're saying reminds me of what e-celeb Digibro said in his video about it and yeah, I didn't really think that added up either.
>Ryuko and Senketsu erasing difference between humans and clothing and embodying the duality
The thing is, Senketsu was a very human-like piece of clothing and Ryuko wasn't really human. So the speech also felt like it was referencing that, which muddles it as just a general "humans and clothing" metaphor. And I don't think the "humans and clothing" theme really works well as a metaphor for "embracing differences and opposites" - it once again feels far-fetched as hell. The idea that clothing and people are "opposites" feels like nonsense to me. Clothing is created by people and the meaning that an individual piece of clothing represents is given by the human wearing it.

Another way to view the speech though is that Ryuko WASN'T entirely human and Senketsu wasn't a regular piece of clothing and was in fact... human-like.

Back in 2013 I tried to figure out what the hell this show meant to say after episode 3 by writing the fucking wall of text in pic related, which is still what I think would have made sense - but I turned out to be completely fucking wrong.

With Gurren, the visual metaphors all added up. True individuality isn't a simple "FUCK THE POLICE" refusal to listen to anyone, but accepting outside influences and running them through your own individual filter - just as Simon & Kamina mashed together existing STOLEN mechs to create their own individual mech. 2D robots with faces vs CG faceless mechs sent to destroy humanity by a samefaced race of aliens that halted their evolution.

>>15255983
>>15256084
Oh also, they "embody duality" because they are a fusion of two irregular beings. They both embody a strange mix of clothing and human.

And yet Ryuko's speech was about how "clothing and clothing, and people are people". What.

>>15255762
Not enough ragyo porn desu

Came at the right time, there needed to be a hot blooded female lead protagonist in an anime at the time.

>>15256101
*clothing is clothing

No opinion, since I didn't even watch it. I'm not sure if it's even that popular among /m/en.

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>>15256106
fans are boring stupid moralfags

>>15256084
>>15256101
>>15255983
Oh and lastly the best example of shoddy storytelling in KLK to me is how the "CLOTHES ARE ALIENS!!!" thing had to be delivered in the form of an out-of-nowhere exposition that was comical in how ridiculously left of it was. It reminded me of of the hilarious the Sodom & Gomorrah backstory that was just farted out in Mao Dante - but then no one calls Mao Dante a thoughtful work with a thoughtful message, certainly not Nagai. He made it as a self-insert Kaiju fantasy.

In Gurren all the space shit was always foreshadowed. Not only because of the theme of the generational conflict getting bigger and bigger in scale, but even in the most literal way - you knew from literally the first scene that space travel was going to be involved.

>>15256165
*left of field fuck me

>>15256084
>Clothing is created by people and the meaning that an individual piece of clothing represents is given by the human wearing it.
The significance of an article of clothing is primarily given by an higher authority, not by the common man that wears it. In the economy of the show, that consist in Satsuki's regime first and the COVERS themselves later. The self definition part comes early for Ryuko with the life fibers synchronization and the start of her search for herself, later for Satsuki and the Devas that, leaving behind nudism, modify Junketsu to suit their needs and wear goku uniforms that are for all intent and purpose Kamuis.
The "FUCK THE POLICE" mentality certainly applies to lesser works like Dead Leaves and PSG. In KLK absolutes are ditched with the beginning of the second half (well episode 16 actually) and Ryuko and Satsuki sides realizing the limits of their mindsets (Ryuko certainly was right in criticizing Ryuko's ignorant, mindless rebellion to authority, and Ryuko certainly was right in calling out Satsuki's "inside the system" approach that only perpetuated the injustices it was supposed to fight - exactly how it happened to Mako and her Fight Club) and teaming up together. The image of Satsuki's blood flowing through Senketsu and Ryuko's blood flowing through Junketsu is one of the things that better summarize the "strength through differences" concept.

>>15256165
The tone is KLK is just lighter, for the most part.

>>15256084
>>15256285
Are you actually autists?

>>15256084
Cont.
>Another way to view the speech though is that Ryuko WASN'T entirely human and Senketsu wasn't a regular piece of clothing and was in fact... human-like
But that's exactly the point that I was making.
>>15256101
>And yet Ryuko's speech was about how "clothing and clothing, and people are people". What.
That's the line used to end the celestial cocoon.
To Ragyo she said "we're clothing, humans and everything else".
But I think you keep committing a mistake taking a speech about the absurdity and contradictions that come with individuality at face value. Its absurdity and contradictions ARE the point.

>>15255762
How is it /m/? And don't say because robots appear in that one scene because that doesn't count.

>>15256285
>Ryuko certainly was right in criticizing Ryuko's ignorant, mindless rebellion to authority, and Ryuko certainly was right in calling out Satsuki's "inside the system" approach that only perpetuated the injustices it was supposed to fight
Gurren did this exact message but way, way better.
>>15256328
OCD.

>>15256165
The twist about clothing was predictable since the introduction of Senketsu, since it was quite blatantly a parasite.
The concept for COVERS was simply brilliant, a genius synthesis of the clothing theme of the show, Go Nagai and 2001.

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>>15255762
A very flawed but very fun experience. I overall enjoyed it more than ttgl and the series was carried by great voice acting, characters, and music.

It also gave me my waifu.

>>15256349
>But I think you keep committing a mistake taking a speech about the absurdity and contradictions that come with individuality at face value. Its absurdity and contradictions ARE the point.
Individuality isn't just doing absurd chaotic nonsense though. GL made that message well enough.

Also
>lesser works like Dead Leaves and PSG
Urghhhhhh Dead Leaves and Panty & Stocking are fucking MILES above KLK. They're not making any statement beyond a really simple "weird and different is good" but that simple statement adds a lot to the sheer fun factor and as far as simple pure fun works go they're fucking fantastic and show the subtle craft and care that goes into making a "stupid fun" work that's truly memorable.

Dead Leaves and Panty & Stocking were full of genuine experimentation. DL had all sorts of clashing animation styles and Panty & Stocking mixed anime and western cartoons in a way that no other animated show did before. KLK as I said earlier felt like just "yep this is the Trigger Guys Style (C) alright". The show's visual execution feels like they turned being "wacky and uncontrolled" into a mechanical mass production process.

>>15256392
Fair enough

>>15255922
>Oh and while I'm not one to say "ugh stop over-reading things" about stuff like Gurren Lagann or FLCL I think it really does apply to KLK. What makes it worse is that it came along when "nerd culture" started getting annoyingly political so everyone has to read insane shit into it like "Ragyo represents internalized misogyny and the clothing aliens represent the patriarchy THIS IS THE AUTHORIAL INTENT IF YOU DON'T THINK SO YOU ARE DUMB"


Dude, stop reading ANN. It's bad for your health.

>>15256165
>In Gurren all the space shit was always foreshadowed.
No it wasn't. The writer literally admitted that he was just making shit up as he went along hence why Garlock never happened, the 1 millionth human plot point comes out of nowhere and the Anti-Spirals wind up being a personification of strawmam. TTGL was very good but the writing took a definite nose dive after the first half.

>>15256477
That type of shit is fucking everywhere though, not just ANN. Even on 4chan it pops up. KLK is a very "trashy" show in an era where you're not allowed to like "trashy" things unless it's some deep commentary. I miss when anime fans were dumb 100% sincere annoying weeb kids and not disingenuous SA goon tier weirdos brainfucked by ideology.

>>15256392
>Gurren did this exact message
No it didn't both of them had different messages but Gurren definitely flubbed in what it was trying to say than KLK

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>>15256435
>Dead Leaves and Panty & Stocking are fucking MILES above KLK.

>>15256494
Yeah, nah. GL worked because even though the actual execution of the theme was made up as it went along (which is why you have that inconsistency), the theme and message were always clear to Nakashima & Imaishi.

Nakashima literally stated that he focused GL around a core theme but tried to "develop the themes of KLK" as he went along.

>>15255793
Agreed.
Not /m/ tho

>>15256512
You sound like someone who thinks Popeye the Sailor shorts are worse than some hipster bullshit like Waking Life because one is just extremely skillful silly fun and the other is ~deep~

>>15256504
KLK had no fucking idea what it was trying to say. Nakashima said he wanted to "develop the themes as he went along".

>>15256521
>GL worked because even though the actual execution of the theme was made up as it went along (which is why you have that inconsistency), the theme and message were always clear to Nakashima & Imaishi.
Okay? That doesn't mean that its plot points were foreshadowed or well written. It was a pastiche series.
>Nakashima literally stated that he focused GL around a core theme but tried to "develop the themes of KLK" as he went along.
Wrong again

>>15256544
Can you please explain why that anon is wrong?

>>15256536
>KLK had no fucking idea what it was trying to say.
It did. It was simple as fuck and you have to have been an idiot not to get it, TTGL tried to do the same shit but failed due to the shift in tone that came about in the second half because the writer was making shit up as he went along

>>15256528
What does that have to do with DL being a fucking mess and PSG being shit?

>>15256521
>the theme and message were always clear to Nakashima & Imaishi.
"We REALLY like Getter Robo!"

>>15256544
>Wrong again
I swear to Christ he said that in some "Trigger interview" Youtube video I saw.
>>15256559
How is DL a mess lol, I could understand calling it "shallow" but it's got a really clear direction from the get-go. It's got an extremely basic premise of "weird mutants vs samefaced robotic guards" executed extremely well with top-notch artwork and directing and above-average animation.

>>15256554
Elaborate. What were both shows trying to say? How did KLK succeed? How did GL fail?

>>15256536
No it has its theme pretty consistent. It's problem was it couldn't decide if it wanted to lampoon trashy modern shounen or if it wanted to be one. It never quite hits the sweet spot of how serious it should be taking itself, but Imaishi in general has zero fucking idea how to maintain that balance.

>>15256435
>Individuality isn't just doing absurd chaotic nonsense though. GL made that message well enough.
So did KLK, as I described, with Ryuko and Satsuki ditching their absolutes of chaos and order joining together.
But for an entity that doesn't know compromise and ignorance, all differences and contradictions are nonsense.
As for Dead Leaves and PSG, while I disagree about your considerations of them being stylistically superior to KLK, I was talking about the scope of their content.
And yes, they never go beyond the glorification of anarchy and disorder, the opposing sides have no merits and there's no catharsis like in KLK and TTGL. That's why they're thematically inferior.

>>15256571
So Getter Robo was a show about how

-true individuality means embracing outside influences but mixing them together in your own way

and

-true evolution requires a healthy mix of youthful rebellion and learning from the lessons of your predecessors

If anything the first part has far more in common with Ashita no Joe than Getter.

>>15256588
>It's problem was it couldn't decide if it wanted to lampoon trashy modern shounen or if it wanted to be one
it's internet retards that project the "parody" bullshit over everything Imaishi makes

>durrhurr gurren is a parody of super robots
>florp de dorp panty and stocking is making fun of american cartoons and degeneracy [drinks toilet duck]

>>15256601
>show
should have said "series" since the manga is the real influence

>>15256594
>I was talking about the scope of their content.
And that was my point, "scope of content" doesn't define quality. Some "deep" noobish college film isn't inherently better than a classic Jackie Chan film because it has "more to say".

KLK was outright lazy at times in terms of atmospheric visual execution. Half the final episode had godawful washed out thoughtless nonsense colors that got across no emotion and didn't help things feel climactic at all. Vastly opposed to Panty & Stocking's finale which had its own unique well thought out color scheme.

>>15256605
When did I say it was a parody? It just very clearly started wanting to poke fun at shounen stuff but over time it kinda became that crap, like the terrible Osaka arc. It can have a laugh and poke fun at/exaggerate something but still be it's own thing and take itself seriously when it wants to, the problem is it seems they forget that's what they are doing and can't stay consistent.

Ttgl had the same issue where it was fun the first half then suddenly with season 2 it just tried to be an overly serious mecha show but still had goofy over the top elements and not take itself seriously. Basically what I'm trying to say is Imaishi anime has a bad tendency to want to have his cake and eat it too.

>>15256628
The way it handles its themes does.
They're not about nothing, they introduce complex topics that deserve proper treatment and do nothing with them beyond saying anarchy fuck yeah over and over again.
They pale against TTGL and KLK that actually develop what are for the most part the same themes thoughtfully.

>>15255762
Since this is /m/, I'm going to say I'm pissed the DTR jobbed hard.

>>15256675
You're implying that at some point it wanted to make fun of what it saw as "crap shonen" but then became that "crap shonen" which is silly. You're taking dumb fan wank interpretations for granted.

>>15256675
Nigger in the first half Kamina died and Simon became a broken sadbrained fuck. At one point he tried to fucking kill himself and Kamina kept him from doing it in his dying breath.

NOT DARK.
>>15256701
>They're not about nothing, they introduce complex topics that deserve proper treatment and do nothing with them
It's your fault for expecting that at all though and not realizing really quick that they're "silly fun" works. You have the same trouble grasping tone as the ANN reviewer who thought Dead Leaves was trying to be "intellectual".

>>15256736
The fault is your for thinking that a work, just in virtue of having no ambition, can joke with themes it doesn't even want to try to handle.
And let me say, and should be a given, that even a simple story can handle topics thoughtfully without trying to be, or being labeled, "intellectual", and that reading your consideration in a thread about KLK and TTGL is just fucking surreal.

>>15256829
I saw both TTGL and DL when I was 15. I could tell from the get-go GL was a show about human evolution with a grander message and that DL was goofy simple fun. GL was portrayed as an epic, DL was from the very first scene onwards irreverent and silly.

I also argued with people who said "Panty & Stocking will get deep IT'S GAINAX AFTER ALL" when that was airing because I could tell it was closer to DL than GL

>>15256845
Okay? Your realization that those works were just fucking around with their topics and wouldn't do anything meaningful with them is irrelevant to their status as thematically lesser Imaishi works.

>>15256875
"why didn't Looney Tunes further explore the themes of performative masculinity and Bugs' non-binary genderfluid identity? clearly it is thematically inferior to Chuck Jones' The Bear That Wasn't"

>>15256925
Do we really need to resort to analogies?
As if the acknowledgment of the importance of thoughtfulness in the way a work of art handles its topics is such a bizarre concept.
If DL and PSG dealt in the same way with more delicate issues people wouldn't give them a pass so easily - not that EVERY topic shouldn't be dealt with the same care and maturity, clearly.

>>15256502
>That type of shit is fucking everywhere though, >not just ANN. Even on 4chan it pops up. KLK >is a very "trashy" show in an era where you're >not allowed to like "trashy" things unless it's >some deep commentary. I miss when anime >fans were dumb 100% sincere annoying weeb >kids and not disingenuous SA goon tier >weirdos brainfucked by ideology.

I think this problem about the obssessive deep commentary is specific to the english speaking fandom (or a subset thereof). There are lots of people that still like anime (wether it's stupid, trashy, flashy, floofly, etc...) political commentary notwithstanding. The shit anime gets when it does what it has always done comes from those same 4-5 internet figures that have declared themselves the voice of fandom. Voice of fandom my ass. If an anime doesn't fit their narrative the japanese are doing it wrong. My answer to them is this _|_ and I will continue to enjoy anime for what it is.

>>15255762
KLK is the lesson that style can not only win over substance if you throw enough at the screen, but you can trick people into thinking there is substance there. I don't actually hate style>substance but at least don't pretend you are being more

What annoys me the most is how much is set up or hinted just to be irrelevant, if brought up at all, later. In general it feels like there are huge divides where rewrites of the whole show happened, not just DEEPEST LORE shit that goes nowhere. Felt like what happens when a creative type doesn't have someone above them. I think the ending really shows that, everyone had these crazy theories of what if X happens, I remember on the SBFCast they were talking about it can't just go to space more crazy things will happen! But it did just do that, no crazy theories went anywhere and some stuff was barely explained.

It seems like a show that some can make what they want it to be, enough random threads, good character design and some goofy animation it gives people something to latch onto. It knows the beat to get the right reaction from people but not the lyrics to add more, so make your own up. You can even see that in this thread with people picking and choosing the bits they want to make whatever theme they like. But it doesn't really bring anything to the table, you don't have to be an amazing work of art to do that but KLK is just a jumbled mess of tropes and references.

In general I don't get Trigger, outside Inferno Cop but even that they don't understand cause Ninja Slayer forgot that extending the same joke for 10 minutes while constantly saying the same line isn't funny.

>>15256571
Now this is a message I can get behind

>>15257106
>You can even see that in this thread with people picking and choosing the bits they want to make whatever theme they like
Except all people are discussing about the same set of themes, that are even similiar to TTGL's ones, and the discussion is mostly about if the execution is consistent or not.
Just jumping in the thread and saying LMAO you got tricked only feels ignorant and arrogant on your part.

>>15257166
Uh huh you still need to reply to >>15256582

And most arguments here about consistency are based on what the anons choose to ignore or see.

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I liked it and Miss Ryuuko's smile

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>>15257224
That wasn't me and I certainly don't think GL failed.

But I'll throw in another consideration regarding the theme of self determination related to society/family expectations: as a foil for Ryuko, Nui is a daughter that, genetically ingeneered to an even greater extent to fulfil a specific purpose, only lives to obey her mother's wishes in a borderline incestous relationship, to the point of ending up killing herself on her order.

>>15257320
Or

She is a very poorly developed character who's action are just informed by what they thought would be funny. Allowing her to easily be slotted into whatever theory you want with just as much validity

I could just as easily bullshit thay the show is actually about fashion and the dangers of. Nui is meant to show the subculture of fashion lolita and thus is powerful cause you gain status from looking good, but really she is ita and that shows in her craxy personality meaning that being obsessed with fashion is bad.

You are trying to find substance in a puddle which means bullshiting is easier to justify and contend with. You can pick and choose the bits you like and even then if it doesn't fit you can just go oh the show didn't do it good enough.

>>15257381
Or, looking at the show at a whole and knowing Imaishi's previous works and recurring themes, you notice the obvious and almost spelled out messages of the shows.
But you only seem interested in shitlifting so whatever, I'm not interested in this kind of discussion.

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I don't like the show, but it was fun watching it live with /a/. The ultimate style over substance. It had some good ideas but ultimately amounted to nothing. Ryuuko is top cute and Mako/Gamagoori OTP.

>>15255762
one of the worst anime ever made

>>15257426
Just because a show has multiple people who worked on a previous project doing this now does not mean they share themes. And even when they do it does not mean it is the main theme or it is even making a similar point about it.

Pick la Mix is shallow as fuck but talks big, when it would be much improved by not pretending.

It was stimulating enough visually I watched it all but the show itself was whatever

>>15257480
Address the multitude of points made in thead or stop replying.
I won't even acknowledge another "you are seeing things that aren't there because I say so" post.

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Wouldv'e been better if there was a male MC.
I'm not gay I swear.

>>15257506
*made in the thread

KLK is an extended metaphor for female puberty

>>15257507
Nope, would have been worse.

>>15257506
your points have already been addressed in the thread, i don't need to rip into them. Plus you just ignored the bullshit theme I just made up cause most of your defence apply to it as well. You haven't justified your point just found a way to connect as many points as you can no matter how dubious.

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>>15257507
>dude in a speedo on screen for 80% of the time
No.
And the thing about being embarrassed of his nudity wouldn't work with a guy.

>>15255762
So stupid

>>15257506
The point isn't that how you see it is wrong, but that the show lacks a strong direction while going in many allowing you to easily justify lots of ideas.

Which isn't froma rich well written plot but a general lack of direction and obvious script changes.

>>15257604
>the show lacks a strong direction
I disagree and have already talked about it at length.
>obvious script changes
Obvious? Where?

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>>15255762

I wanna marry Nonon

>>15255762
Stupid but enjoyable.

Had the same problems TTGL had, but with less animation.

Wasted Potential:The Series

Really cool concept, with a small handful of actually good episodes and a rushed ending.

It could have been so much more.

Also too many dumb filler episodes that didnt advance the plot at all. They should have just knocked it down to 12 episodes and cut all the filler out so they could use the rest of the budget on crazy ass animation, story telling and music, instead of 24 mediocre episodes.

>>15258391
>rushed ending
>24 episodes
So you didn't watch the epilogue.

Was anybody else dissapointed when the plot shifted away from "school run by super powered assholes" to AYYs?

Those first few episodes with all the shenanagins and fighting at the school are fucking choice.

I was actually hoping for amore traditional series where Ryuko had to work her way through all the minibosses in the school before challenging the final boss Satsuki. But then part way into that WHOAH ALIENS and SATSUKIS MOM IS THE REAL ENEMY WHOOOOOAAAAHHHHH bullshit.

>>15258418

>epilogue

aka we fucked up and had to rush the ending, so heres our remake of the ending

>>15258431
No? The OVA that came with the last BD was announced months before the ending aired.
And you couldn't really put the content of episode 25 in the series without ruining the climax of Ragyo's defeat and Senketsu's death.

>>15258427
The school wars were so fucking boring that I was happy that any sort of plot showed up.

>>15255762
I thought it sucked, just like panty and stocking. And like that show, it appears I was in the minority.

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>>15255762
>Dotonbori Robo

On an unrelated note, is Oh! Edo Rocket any good?
I think it's the only english translated Nakashima I still haven't seen.

https://youtu.be/NhaKDkfn6Yo

>>15258563
>to this day there are still people that believe it was wrist slitting and not just a puncture.

All I know was I regret missing the chance to watch TTGL with /a/ and watching PSG and KLK was incredible

>THE GHOST WAS US
>IT WAS US ALL ALONG

>I'm actually a demon

The shitstorms that show caused were fucking glrious

>>15255762
>Kill la Kill
>Genres: Action, Comedy, School, Super Power

Kill la Kill is not /m/

>>15258641
It's a Cutie Honey reboot full of robots.

>>15258579

>All I know was I regret missing the chance to watch TTGL with /a/

Depsite how 4chan in general acts towards TTGL now, back when it aired all of 4chan was going nuts og Gurren Lagann and was losing its absolute shit for the last 5 or so episodes of the show. When the big finale happened there were Gurren Lagan threads on almost every 4chan board talking about it.

I had fun with it. Not the best show the writer did, I enjoyed Gurren Lagann and Kamen Rider Fourze more, but still a good experience.

It made me laugh, therefore it succeeded as a comedy.

But it isn't the masterpiece that Inferno Cop is. Trigger's best work is truly behind them.

>>15255762

It was ok, but besides that, what the fuck is that armor?

>>15255816
No it fucking wasn't. Have you ever even seen or read anything by him?

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Mako is love, Mako is life

>>15255762
Unfunny and retarded. Tits & teens, except somehow the cancerous anime community of 2014 managed to latch on and mine it for all the "deep" nonsense they could.

Muhsoggynee? Individuality? Empowerment? Give me a break. The outfits exist for the sole purpose of sex appeal, so losers like me can wack off to Ruko's jiggly hooters, that's it.

Show that miniskirt to anyone who isn't pursuing a dual major Asian Culture/Womens' Studies degree, and they'll say the same. You are looking way too hard into just another Japanese pornographied cartoon.

>>15259493
>this series having similiar messages to every other Imaishi anime? Couldn't possibly be! You're looking too much into it!
Cool story bro.

>>15255762
Wasted potential. The premise was pretty solid and the first few episodes were pretty good. Then the budget started going to complete shit (the middle of the show was downright painful visually) and the plot shat all over itself with the aliens.

KLK felt like New Coke. It was carefully formulated to be appetizing in small pieces, and then all of those pieces were stitched together into a show that somehow managed to give me Shonen Exhaustion by episode 8.

"Turning it up to 11" doesn't work when you do it a hundred times in a row.

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>>15259745

So what was the return of Coke Classic? Luluco?

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I thought it was a pretty fun throwaway show. Nothing really memorable though, I haven't felt like rewatching it at all since it ended.
Although Mako in her banchou uniform is the cutest fucking thing I've seen in my life.

>>15259692
It was the schedule, not the budget. But fortunately only 3 episodes suffered from it, 13 (animated in Flash, didnt go so well) and 19 and 20 (that were originally 3 episodes and had to be redrawn because of the one week delay of the second cour. Some scenes that were intended to be there even ended in the drama CD).

>>15259692
Anyway complaining about aliens is stupid. The idea of parasitic clothing farming humanity and taking over their personality, somewhere between Space's Odyssey's monolith, Spiderman's Venom and Devilman's demons, is simply some of the most brilliant sci-fi I've seen in years.

>>15259882
I can't remember specifically, but there was a point in the middle of the show where the animation was just constantly atrocious. It could have been scheduling, budget or whatever, but it was really bad.

>>15259922
I hope this is just shitposting.

>>15259929
Everything in the first cour is at least decent. 13 is bad. The arc between 14 and 18 is the most consistently good animated in the series. 19 and 20 are the lowest point, then it picks up again with the last Ryuko vs Satsuki fight and stays acceptable till the last episode that is quite good.

And no I'm quite serious. It's brilliant and it comes together perfectly.

>>15259971
No it lasted longer than that. Maybe like 3-5 episodes.

The clothing is literally just symbiotes + the Matrix. It's not that great of an idea.

>>15259986
They even explicitly reference 2001 during the sequence, the inspiration is quite clear. And obviously Nagai is all over the series. Matrix isn't really there significantly.

>>15259922
The IDEA of the clothes is interesting but shitting out that they're aliens in an asspull-feeling exposition is not.
>>15258427
>I was actually hoping for amore traditional series where Ryuko had to work her way through all the minibosses in the school before challenging the final boss Satsuki. But then part way into that WHOAH ALIENS and SATSUKIS MOM IS THE REAL ENEMY WHOOOOOAAAAHHHHH bullshit.
That's what Nakashima first wrote and Imaishi made him completely trash it because it was too generic according to him.

I think Imaishi is a great director but he can be stupid as shit about story and I don't think Nakashima should've listened to him.

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>>15259410
>>15259846
Thank you for saying such nice things about my wife

>>15261221
Considering how Fourze fared (granted, it's not perfect, but neat enough), it is true that Nakashima should have less jobs under Imaishi.

>>15261256
Imaishi trashed the script for GL ep 1 before and he actually turned out to be right because the original draft sounded pretty crap. I guess that may have gotten to his head too much.

>>15261221
Senketsu and Junketsu established clothes as parasitic, sentient beings from day 1. From there they asked the question: why do clothes only feed off human beings? So they tied it together with the idea of homo sapiens being the only self aware specie of the planet thanks to induced evolution, of the original sin that made humans aware of their nudity and a bunch of other influences. Even the idea of alien beings brainwashing/replacing the unaware populace comes from cold war era science fiction. There is honestly no reason to complain about the aliens reveal.

And KLK changed its formula from formulaic battle shonen to more character drama focused. There was no mention about subsequent developments.
Similarly to how the initial script of TTGL got rejected because too conventional (they weren't even supposed to reach the surface until some episodes in).

>>15259922
Making references to other ideas does not make your idea good. And even if good in concept execution matters much more, spiral energy is just getter rays which also aren't a deep concept but both are used very well in their story permeating through a lot of concepts. Their simplicity allows you to wonder about their nature while still feeling developed enough for the story being told.

Life Fibres don't do this. >>15256084 shows how weirdly they fit in whatever theme you wish to make cause they are a bit all over the place. The nature isn't explored through the show but through exposition bringing in whole new concept and dumping them on top, which contributes to how weirdly they fit. We know too much about them for them to be mysterious and ethereal but not enough that it is a well developed force/antagonist. Ultimately this puts them in a dull middle ground, and concept can't save that.

>>15259922
>>15261409
The thing is they're not like Devilman's demons. The exposition of how they work and attached themselves to humanity a lot more like the "shards of God" from Mao Dante than demons taking over humans in Devilman.

>>15261409
>Making references to other ideas does not make your idea good
Obviously, but how the concepts tie sell together and with the clothing theme of the show does. See also >>15261408. And I don't see how your post would expose inconsistencies.
As for Getter Rays and Spiral Energy, I certainly wouldn't describe the second as mysterious and fascinating. Certainly less than Getter Rays and even COVERS, despite being fitting and effective.
And the avatar and face of life fibers is Ragyo (and Nui) that are effectively the antagonists.
And they certainly are fitting and developed, giving the world scale apocalypse a family drama angle that prevents the metaphor for wandering too far away to what could be relatable to the characters.

>>15261486
*far away from

>>15261486
>I don't see how your post would expose inconsistencies.
Because even here it has been argued to death and I can't be bothered any more. Plus all that post does is "but references though cold war." If you want anything interesting out of that you have to extrapolate many layers out.

>I certainly wouldn't describe the second as mysterious and fascinating
If that is what you believe then life fibre certainly isn't. Even just the fact that spiral energy may bring about the destruction of a race but in doing so brings it forward is much more interesting than, parasite that just wants to explode earth and reproduce. There is nothing more to life fibres outside humans work as a good host, we have the answers and it isn't one which leaves you much to ponder.

>And the avatar and face of life fibers is Ragyo (and Nui) that are effectively the antagonists.
So what? You can qualify that about 99% of powers in any medium. Fibres are the point of discussion here, Ragu could work if you make the power whatever mcguffin you want

> developed
Again, developed enough that they don't have mystery but not enough that they work on their own as an interesting antagonistic force.

>>15258681
Too bad because I fell asleep during the last episodes. I watched getter robo, godannar and other similar shit so the hype was null.

Ttgl's first half was ok. Then it shat on itself.

Also, it's super predictable, and I was already an adult when that thing aired.

>>15258681
The majority of 4chan thought that TTGL was some revolutionary series that perfect mecha. To people who have seen other mecha shows or can see through the flash, it's always been an alright series with a very misguided second half that is a send up to older mecha shows but sometimes the homage reached closer to infringement territory.

>>15261676
>The majority of 4chan thought that TTGL was some revolutionary series that perfect mecha
I was there and this has always been bullshit. The fact that people have to post a Youtube comment section screenshot from 2007 mistaking a Getter reference for a GL reference to "prove" GL fans think GL invented everything should make anyone sane realize that it's nonsense.

>>15261635
>"but references though cold war."
Sorry? I was pointing out how the dynamics of life fibers' existence and actions are firmly rooted in science fiction. So explicitly even that calling them being aliens an asspull doesn't make any sense.
>There is nothing more to life fibres outside humans work as a good host
So you just ignore the relationship between Ryuko and Senketsu and the whole "humans and clothing can understand each others" subplot that is there from beginning to end. As well as the whole "strength in compromise, not in absolutes" deal we discussed earlier.
>Fibres are the point of discussion here, Ragu could work if you make the power whatever mcguffin you want
No. The controlling mother antagonist works and makes sense specifically because of the nature of life fibers as beings made to erase individuality and self determination. Again, the whole Wedding Dress deal is blatant and is there from episode 3. And as I mentioned before, the significance of an article of clothing comes from some kind of authority. In Kill la Kill that consists in the school system, in the parental figures and world of adults and in COVERS themselves (that are responsible for humanity's existence in the first place). It's all perfectly consistent.

>>15261698
Yeah I was here too, and I was one of those idiots who thought that TTGL was some revolutionary series and thought it was original. The fact of the matter is when you step back and look at the series, especially when you can see how much it blatantly copies, you really see the glaring flaws everywhere in the series. Hell even when I was enamored with the series I still thought the second half was weak as fuck.

Also I never brought up the YouTube comment image so why are you?

>>15261726
>Yeah I was here too, and I was one of those idiots who thought that TTGL was some revolutionary series and thought it was original.
so all this shit is projection from self hating ttglfags? haha that explains so much

>>15261741
>so all this shit is projection from self hating ttglfags? haha that explains so much
That's not what I said? I like the series and all but I don't think it's great by any means and definitely think the second half is bad.

>>15261711
>rooted in science fiction
>so aliens
Not only was I not making that point there, that is incredibly dumb to say anything scifi can just pull aliens out. Again references should be your base not the main reason you say something is good.

>humans and clothing can understand each others
And the unique interesting perspective it gives on this well known cliche? None really, it handles it very simply and gives a conclusion with little to discuss but that is what is said. It did nothing special with this concept of things that should be enemy work together. This is the most brilliant sci-fi in years?

>strength in compromise, not in absolutes
That is the same basic idea as above of understanding and working together. And it doesn't even work that well cause many characters are head strong, independent and rebellious is shown as a positive

>The controlling mother antagonist works and makes sense specifically
Specifically, as in can not work otherwise? I guess that is why in no other fiction do we see controlling mother antagonist

>It's all perfectly consistent.
I'm not even fucking arguing that bit with you cause it is clear that you can never be convinced otherwise as many have tried. I am talking about them on the point of
>is simply some of the most brilliant sci-fi I've seen in years.
Even if I gave you every single nutty theory of how you think life fibres fit they are still not interesting outside initial concept. Execution matters more

>>15261757
>is incredibly dumb to say anything scifi can just pull aliens out
Maybe because every example I made of similar dynamics involved aliens?
And why do you insist with saying that references aren't enough when I already explained that is how the elements logically tie together that matters? I'll spell out the logical thought process then
>life fibers are parasitic beings shaped into clothes to feed on humans
>why do they only feed on humanity?
>maybe they're responsible for humanity wearing clothes in the first place. Man became aware of his nudity only after eating the forbidden fruit of knowledge, so life fibers could have acted in ancient times, and the powers that they gave to their wearers made humanity self aware and in the first place
>that would also fit with the point we're making about clothes defining identity. Life fibers could take over the hosts in a sort of invasion
Etc.
>And the unique interesting perspective it gives on this well known cliche?
>That is the same basic idea as above
You answered yourself and I already explained many times in this thread. The outright refusal of the system is pointless, just like absolute obedience to norms and expectations. You have to choose your own clothes and shape your identity, in harmony and with the help with the people around that are different.
>And it doesn't even work that well cause many characters are head strong, independent
Youu cherrypick some of the most neutral qualities and ignore the dozen of differences I mentioned since the first post?
>Specifically, as in can not work otherwise? I guess that is why in no other fiction do we see controlling mother antagonist
So you butcher the quote, don't address the points I made about the role of the family drama within the context of series and its themes in that post or even the ones before, and even act sarcastic? Okay.
>Execution matters more
Good thing the execution is good then. But you are "not even fucking arguing" about that.

>>15261919
>Maybe because every example I made of similar dynamics involved aliens?
Oh I forgot, obviously the nature of the Monolith is up to debate.

>>15261919
>Not only was I not making
>I'll spell out the logical thought process then
This is an advanced kind of autism. I said to you that you could have your nutty theories on how well it fits in the show. That is not a point in contention cause I can't be bothered to argue it with your autistic ass. Yet you want to say I don't address your points?

You don't even make sense as apparently the interesting perspective on the cliche is me pointing out you repeat yourself. Simply repeating but compromise though doesn't make it more advanced, cause the show has nothing more to say on that topic. There is no discussion posed on if compromise is right as the show clearly says it is. Not like in GL where the show makes clear that the choice to accept spiral energy is a questionable one. >>15261939 shows you can understand how nature can lead to debate on a concept in a story, life fibres lack this cause we know it all and what we know doesn't lead to more than a very cliched message.

>Youu cherrypick
The irony

>>15262037
>argue at length
>get a "you're autistic and I won't argue with you" response
Whatever, discussion ends here. I'll only bother replying to the single, miserable response you gave
>There is no discussion posed on if compromise is right as the show clearly says it is. Not like in GL where the show makes clear that the choice to accept spiral energy is a questionable one.
It does, it's exactly the same situation. The risks and advantages that comes with rejecting and embracing clothings and what they represents are showcased at length in the show. Like I said a million times.
Spiral power in TTGL is not more thematically rich than clothing in KLK. You even seem confused about the difference between meaning and diegetic function, as you started this stupid argument saying "Spiral energy is better because it's mysterious and ethereal" that has fucking nothing to do with what it represents that it's quite clear.

>>15262155
>Spiral power in TTGL is not more thematically rich than clothing in KLK.
Gonna piggy back on your post and also add that spiral power is inherently good and is extremely one dimensional. It could have been vague that Lordgenome proves it can be used for evil but no everyone gets redeemed in anime that days so it's revealed he did this to protect the world from the anti spiral who fear humans because they change the status quo and that can be dangerous. The series was too aimless to make it about how spiral energy (effort) can be used for good or evil, but instead it just sputters out into "change is good, don't be afraid to try and change things."

Spiral energy = change/effort, Antispiral = entropy. This isn't rocket science, the themes in TTGL are not very complex.

>>15262182
I dont think it's exactly like that but it isn't how that guy says either:
>>15262037
>GL where the show makes clear that the choice to accept spiral energy is a questionable on
No. Not using it leads to stagnation. And abusing it leads to Spiral Nemesis. The show doesn't try to hide that the right way is a balance.

>>15262155
>argue at length
I told you here >>15261635 I was not going to argue about consistency. You did that to yourself.

>are showcased at length in the show
Not only is that not true as anyone without at best struggles incredibly hard usually serving as jokes, the conclusion it makes on the topic is conclusive with no room to argue it while also not making a deep message. There is not an argument by the end of the show that compromise may not be good in or out the show, there is nothing to go off there. The message itself is simple, once you understand life fibres they are just a parasite that will just be that. There is an argument to make on the nature of spiral energy, there is an argument on if it is a positive. It is not the most ground breaking concept or theme but there is substance which is why there can be discusion.

>Like I said a million times
No you did not, you reiterated that you saw it as a theme and instead tried to argue it permeated everything cause you have nothing else and know it.

> between meaning and diegetic function
Yes that is a way to make a theme more rich, it allows debate on the topic using the show itself. "Compromise to an extent is good" is basic so it fails on that front, it is a message you see in kids shows and this version of it is no more advanced. You can't argue about the nature either, you can't do fuck all with it but the conclusion it reached.

> "Spiral energy is better because it's mysterious and ethereal"
Oh what was that about cherry picking and misrepresenting? We could also add misquoting as well

>>15262182
>inherently good
>May lead to them destroying the universe but protagonist accept that risk
>inherently good
klk fags

You even admit in your post with that disagreement happened on it in the show that at the very least it is at the same level the cunt above you is arguing for life fibres.

>>15262256
>that the right way is a balance
No it doesn't, the end is them summoning as big a mech as they can with it. They willingly risk everything for their side and accept their ideas may fail.

When did Simon go "woah guys calm down a bit, we got to be balanced about it while I turn galaxies into a drill."?

>>15262264
>There is not an argument by the end of the show that compromise may not be good in or out the show
Exactly like in TTGL.
>Yes that is a way to make a theme more rich, it allows debate on the topic using the show itself
Which is the case for 2001 but not for TTGL, where the meaning of Spiral Energy is obvious despite its description being somewhat vague.
>When did Simon go "woah guys calm down a bit, we got to be balanced about it
That was the scene when Simon decided not to bring Nia back to life. You fucking idiot.
>the cunt above you
I'd say >TTGL fags, but I actually love both shows despite the idiotic fanbases.

>>15262333
>Exactly like in TTGL
Apart from, you know, the whole final conflict being about while KLK neither are arguing if compromise is good and it is not left open whether compromising may eventually be a negative. But yeah basically the same

>Which is the case for 2001 but not for TTGL
Cause you say so got it. Even if I give you that, cause I am so nice and give you so many things to make your arguement easier, then life fibres still fail spectacularly.

>That was the scene when Simon decided not to bring Nia back to life
But the point is never they do that because of balance, they go and build more GL and become an incredibly advanced society. That was just a personal choice for Simon. The show makes it clear they will advance as much as they see fit be that a balance or not. You'd have a better time arguing it is about choice not balance but even then you'd be left with the argument of choice that can lead to destruction vs a safe authority with no choice.

>idiotic fanbases.
You've sure proven that if nothing else

Kill la Kill was genuinely the most disappointing thing I've seen in my entire life. Not the worst thing. But definitely the most disappointing. I've never seen a show that worked so hard to consistently kill all the momentum it had towards anything interesting happening, a show where the interesting characters were shafted so hard and the main characters so incredibly unlikable and bland.

>>15262381
>That was just a personal choice for Simon
Nice mental gymnastic. Undermining a scene so meaningful and important as a "personal choice" with no bearing on the point the show is making about the use of spiral energy.
Not messing with the cycle of life and death is the most blatant statement about the importance of balance in a show that is about the relationship between old and new. About doing your best and then stepping aside for the new generation.
But nope, means nothing. Even Simon stepping down in favor of Rossiu means nothing, it's just his personal choice. Good job.

I didn't watch it. Nothing about the designs or concept draws me in. I'm not one for director loyalty, so it reminding me of GL a little bit isn't enough.

>>15256512
He's right though.

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>>15262481
>Nice mental gymnastic.
Says the guy who cried about cherry picking, to then let one scene define the whole show. Even then you just have to reject other interpretations out of hand, and then you call that supporting a different point that fits in with spiral energy undermining the shows point about spiral energy? Even then you failed to get away from personal choice. And even in doing so the show twice shows rules by the old generation that are stable so you can still have a discussion out of it.

But you know, he stepped aside for the young generation pictured here

>means nothing, it's just his personal choice.
Personal choice means nothing and isn't important? You're right, you really are idiotic.

>>15262522
>then let one scene define the whole show
>the scene following the one with the Anti Spiral telling the main character to take care of the galaxy has him refusing to use spiral energy to break the cycle of life and death? Means nothing, just his choice. Couldn't possibly be the answer to the questions the show has raised so far.
And then you argue against the show main theme and says something as moronic as
>Personal choice means nothing and isn't important?
that showcases complete ineptitude in interpreting fiction.
Are you the same guy I argued with since >>15255910?
Because he didn't seem retarded.

>>15262602
I'm not that anon but I think he was being sarcastic with "Personal choice means nothing and isn't important". You guys are literally drowning in each others ironic presentations.

>>15262622
He's trying to pass off a key scene as as a personal choice of the character unrelated to the show's message, because it doesn't fit in his interpretation.
He's not sarcastic, just genuinely dishonest.

>>15262602
>It's okay to cherry pick when I do it
Okay, that one is really biting you in the ass now. You realise that your attempt to frame it means nothing cause you through out mine for no other reason than you have decided personal choice is shit despite me showing it working thematically? You even have to ignore that not only is Rossiu old but he was never that far from Simon, or that he also just used spiral energy to have a galaxy fight not being balanced at all literally breaking a cycle of people coming up and being pushed down again by the anti-spiral. Even this whole stop saying it means nothing when you are making it so personal choice means nothing. You just keep doubly down on point after point and it doesn't help you, you just go down whatever crazy path you feel like and hope it works. Once again I really don't care about where you are trying to drag this.

>that showcases complete ineptitude in interpreting fiction.
Could have just said you are wrong cause that is all that amounts to. We are so far from the original point now.

>Are you the same guy
No, a lot of people have called out your shit throughout the thread. It might be that you just have really stupid ideas

>>15262622
I guess he really does have autism.

>>15262639
>No
As I thought. Even if we disagreed it was an interesting discussion and he made good points. You have only showed inability and unwillingness to argue and the understanding of fiction of a 5 year old. Go back listening the speech of Simon to the Anti Spiral and maybe you'll be able to discuss TTGL in a few years.
This is my last reply to you.

>>15262264
>May lead to them destroying the universe but protagonist accept that risk
Yeah that's A possibility when Antispiral was talking about the dangers of spiral energy and humans is they can achieve anything if they work for it so one possibility is they could decide to destroy the world. The Antispiral is entropy and wants to protect the universe by keeping everything as is because if no one does anything nothing can be risked.

I'm not arguing klk is deep nor have I mentioned it in my posts, I've only been saying your claims that TTGL is some grand amazingly deep series but it's your own machinations. There is a depth to it but it's very simple and stated nearly verbatim in the show: spiral energy is effort, because with a little effort even the impossible is possible.

>>15262672
>I've only been saying your claims that TTGL is some grand amazingly deep series
>>15261409
>which also aren't a deep concept but both are used very well
>Their simplicity

>>15262693
What? I'm showing the point was never it was some grand amazing deep series, but does simplicity right. Meanwhile Life Fibres aren't loose enough to work like that while not actually deep either so hit a shitty middle ground

>>15259390
See >>15258546

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Have we gone this long and no one posted the one giant robot in the series? It's even piloted by best girl.