Mobile Suit Gundam: Char's Counterattack

>>15240904
>Wasted opportunity.

That's CCA in general. The whole movie is a mess. Feels totally disconnected from Zeta and Double Zeta. Has little buildup.

>>15240904

No, we couldn't. I've no idea how the rumor Gyunei was supposed to be Kamille got started but there's never been the slightest substantiation of it and it's a ridiculous idea in reality, since the two are nothing alike.

>>15241137

It's probably because Char's Counterattack is Char and Amuro's story and a conclusion to something started in 0079, with only nods to Zeta or ZZ since its not really connected to them.

I don't really see Kamille siding with Char in CCA under any conditions.

The closest thing Char had to a right hand man was Nanai though, not Gyunei. Gyunei was just a pilot and his bodyguard; Char barely paid attention to him for most of the film. He only really talked to him right at the beginning, and that's pretty obviously because he's looking for an excuse to retreat. Even Nanai wasn't really a right hand, since that implies far more influence than she had.

>>15240904
He wasn't bad. Got too little screentime though. His attempts to impress Quess were endearing.

>>15241137
>Feels totally disconnected from Zeta and Double Zeta

That's because it is a fucking sequel to 0079.
It is NOT A SEQUEL neither to Zeta nor ZZ.

>>15240904
I don't see how Kamille would ever side with Char following the events of ZZ and finally managing to settle down with Fa at the end of the conflict. Even had Char returned to lead AEUG in that direction and Kamilles mind not been fried by Scirocco, It was clear that Kamille had become utterly sick and tired of the bloodshed.

On the subject of Gyunei, I liked the fact that he was able to focus on the job of defeating Amuro and dropping Axis. Unlike Char, he was willing to use rather clever, if not underhanded at times, tricks to get the job done. He was able to idenify the fact that Char was a delusional maniac by the mid point of CCA and had chosen to just get the job done, outside of him trying to swoon Quess from Char, which basically devolved into Char telling Gyunei to get that burden off his back.

In Shin Gihren Greed for the PSP, if you deploy Gyunei into battle at Axis, he will return mid battle with the Nu or Hi-Nu Gundam captured and will present it to Char. Char is utterly heartbroken to learn that not only was his rival defeated before they could fight, but that it was a random goober like Gyunei that got the job done. No epic clash, no chance to debate the morality of killing Lalah, just a quick snatch and grab to ensure Axis will fall.

>>15240904
Seeing him being utterly beaten by Amuro not once but TWICE, was delicious though.

CCA is a wasted opportunity overall, especially because we still have the same newtype-lover-pattern as we already had in the three series but with an even more despicable and annoying trio who manage to ruin the movie, this and pointless terrible death of cool side characters. But Amuro and Char are great at least.

>>15243840

I'm not sure Gyunei ever sees Char as anything else to be honest. Even during his first real chat with Quess he talks about how when people fight colonies get destroyed and he became a pilot and cyber newtype to help stop that in a wording which suggests Char is one of the people he thinks helps destroy places like the colonies.

>>15243840
Which never makes sense to me, since Amuro was a better pilot, used to his newtype powers for far longer, and had a better machine. The only time Gyunei ever came close to capturing Nu was when he had to take a hostage, and whether or not Amuro would've got the jump on him there anyway is debatable.

It's telling on how later Amuro just blows through him like any other Geara Doga pilot without even slowing down.

>>15244098
Thats basically how Gyunei manages to get the suit undamaged within the context to the game. The situations go as follows...

Send Gyunei into battle: He will capture the Nu/Hi Nu from Amuro, along with returning Kyala to the Ra-Cailum crew
Hold Gyunei back: He breaks command and attacks Amuro anyways, leading to Kyala dying and Gyunei being forced to retreat back to Axis.

The game also considers dropping Axis to be a bad ending, so its advised to let Gyunei fail, unless you plan to destroy the engines of Axis yourself to get the better ending.

Game Over ending: Let all 3 engines of Axis be destroyed.
Bad ending 1: All engines of Axis survive.
Bad ending 2: 1 engine of Axis destroyed, forcing Amuro to sacrifice his life to stop it. Chars forces drop Luna II instead.
Good ending: Two engines of Axis destroyed, allowing Amuro to push it back. Char invades and captures Earth.
Best ending: Fail to drop Axis, did not recruit Quess and had Gyunei remain as an oldtype instead of a cyber newtype. Amuro will join Char in capturing Earth and purging the corruption of the Federation. Earth flourishes under Char and his new advisor, Amuro Ray.

>>15244098
>whether or not Amuro would've got the jump on him there anyway is debatable.
The funnels alone tried to prevent Amuro for sacrificing himself. Besides, the two times Amuro face Gyunei, he just curbstomps him. He would probably blow him up with the funnels without even knowing about it.

>>15244233
Those are some weird outcomes.
BTW which is the Nanai role in all this? Any specific role, choices? Or she's as useful as a C&C Red Alert advisor?

>>15244784
She becomes irrelevant if Amuro joins Neo Zeon, just another face while Char listens to Amuro completely as his advisor.

>>15244233
>Best ending: Fail to drop Axis, did not recruit Quess and had Gyunei remain as an oldtype instead of a cyber newtype. Amuro will join Char in capturing Earth and purging the corruption of the Federation. Earth flourishes under Char and his new advisor, Amuro Ray.
This is the weirdest ass alternate timeline ever. The tension and political dynamic between the two must be able to be physically cut with a damn knife.

>>15245352
Oh please I bet they're fucking every other night like a 80s yaoi couple.

>>15245352
At least they went all out in their "Char's wistful imagination" ending there. When you get shit like
>Good ending: Two engines of Axis destroyed, allowing Amuro to push it back. Char invades and captures Earth.
it makes me wonder how the fuck Char managed to escape Amuro's wrath, much less Bright's.

By the way, are there Federation endings to the Axis fight, or does the game only let you play Zeon's side?

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>>15245416

Amuro Ending (CCA)

Bad: One engine destroyed on Axis, Amuro and Char absorbed into the psychoframe
Good: Two engines destroyed on Axis, Char absorbed into the psychoframe alone. Amuro becomes a Colonel in the Federation.
Best: Axis destroyed, successfully invade and occupy Side 1 Sweetwater colony. Amuro captures Char and is able to place him into Federal custody.

>>15241168
>I've no idea how the rumor Gyunei was supposed to be Kamille got started

I can see where it comes from. He's instantly obsessed with a green-haired newtype girl and he intensely hates the Re-GZ for no goddamn reason. Plus people either don't like Gyunei or don't care about him at all, and would have preferred that his screen time go to a character that they're already invested in. Lastly, a lot of people just don't like ZZ undoing Zeta's tragic ending for Kamille.

I think that, from all of that, it's easy to see why people would initially come up with the theory. The theory is that Kamille was originally supposed to have the cyber-newtype surgery instead of recovering on his own. That neatly explains away the discrepancies that there are between Kamille and Gyunei, wipes out the ZZ ending that people don't like, replaces a character that people don't like with one that they do, and lends a convenient explanation for some of the weird shit that Gyunei does. It's exactly the sort of thing that a fan-theorist would come up with.

>>15241168
>>15245687
Wasn't CCA supposed to be a part of ZZ before Tomino got clearance for making a movie instead?

>>15245980
No, CCA was originally Hi-Streamers, a Tomino what-if novel where Char went nuts.

ZZ had Char taking Glemy Toto's place after convincing numerous pilots in Axis, no, colony drops are a bad idea. Would have been Haman v. Char and AEUG.

Or a free-for-all, because I don't imagine Zeta Char would have been happy about the Feds abandoning the citizens of Dublin while calling it population control.

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>>15243840
>In Shin Gihren Greed for the PSP, if you deploy Gyunei into battle at Axis, he will return mid battle with the Nu or Hi-Nu Gundam captured and will present it to Char. Char is utterly heartbroken to learn that not only was his rival defeated before they could fight, but that it was a random goober like Gyunei that got the job done. No epic clash, no chance to debate the morality of killing Lalah, just a quick snatch and grab to ensure Axis will fall.

This is how it ends, Char. No big schemes. No grand fight to the finish with the White Comet. Tomorrow, all the papers will say is that the great Amuro Ray was captured by Neo Zeon thanks a miserable little nobody. Kind of funny! Ironic, really. See, I can destroy a man's dreams, too! And that's really the only dream you've got, isn't it?"

>>15245687
>Lastly, a lot of people just don't like ZZ undoing Zeta's tragic ending for Kamille.
Why...? I thought that the last ZZ scene was very endearing, Kamille didn't deserved what happened to him at the end of Zeta and just because he is smiling and apparently better doesn't mean that there is nothing left or that he'll forget.

>>15245320
Goddammit. Nobody likes Nanai, but me and some weirdos

>>15240904
True

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>>15246084
Heh

>>15245687

He doesn't instantly become obsessed with a green haired girl or hate the Re-GZ though. He doesn't even seem all that interested in Quess the first time they meet frankly, when he's helping her pilot for Char. It's only the second or third time they meet when they're talking outside a party that he starts to act like he's really in to her, and even then it's only subsequent scenes where he really gets in to it. He even explains at least part of why he likes her in that scene, since she's more of a newtype than he feels he can be at the moment and he wants her to help him. He definitely likes her for other reasons, but it's not an instant obsession. Nor does he hate the Re-GZ. I'm not even sure he ever mentions the units name. He just wants to kill that particular unit because it's pilot is so effective, not because it's a Re-GZ.

I also don't get why anyone would think that Kamille being cybernetically brainwashed in to helping Char, and then dying to Amuro would be any kind of satisfying end to his character. I'm not even mystified that people wouldn't want a bad end for him, but him being brainwashed in to helping a cause he'd very obviously hate normally and then dying to someone he has no beef with is just narratively unsatisfying.

>>15245980
>>15246047

http://pastebin.com/0SkxGTUt

It wouldn't really have been Haman v Char, since Char would have probably played at helping Haman with the intention of really helping A.E.U.G. Judau would still have been the one really against her.

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Remember the time the Newtype magazine did lewds?

>>15247123
>everyone suddenly just stops fighting forever because "LOL understanding"
I'm starting to think Tomino might actually be autistic because human beings don't work that way.

>>15240904
>obnoxious faggot
He was the only CCA exclusive character I actually liked. See >>15243802

>>15247696
Sometimes I think about "what would happen if Four would have survived". Would she find her happiness with Kamille? Would she leave him to Fa and choose someone more experienced, like Quattro?

>>15247696

Amuro's CCA uniform was awesome.

>>15248209
She would find another way to die. Because her mind was incorrigible and the only release from it was death, whether it was other people's or her own.

>>15248433
>Because her mind was incorrigible and the only release from it was death
I doubt it. Maybe she could go through some medical course. Or constanly eat headache pills

>>15246261
Actually, she does have one final action after Axis fails to fall that you can do with her. She will inform you that Anaheim Electronics wishes to gain full political control over Granada and Von Braun as a reward for its conspiring with Neo Zeon. She basically recommends door kicking the moon and nationalizing all of the moon and Anaheim itself. You will unlock the Shinanju and Kashatria for development following this action, however the Federation will be able to make Unicorns as well by doing this.

>The feeling when the final battle at Dakar is mostly squads of Unicorns with no names at the front of the lines, while all the actual aces are in Jeagans and GM III's.

>>15248606
Nanai can't give a bad advice, I suppose.

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>>15247115
I agree.

While I could easily see Kamille fighting alongside Char against the federation. I could never see Kamille agreeing to Char's methods. There is no chance in hell Kamille could ever support an asteroid drop. He'd be leashing Char in from his batshit plans. Which in my opinion means he has no real place in CCA.

>>15249372
Kamille is no Federation supporter, but he's not one to believe in Zeon either. Could more easily fall in line with Amuro's stance than Char's

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>>15249483
When Kamille thinks of Zeon he thinks of Zabi's Zeon. The fact of the matter is a lot of the ideals that shape him as zeta progresses come directly from Char (in turn Deikunism) with a good dose of Bright's common sense. Kamille's also interesting in that unlike Amuro he has never actually fought for the Earth Federation. Amuro fought for, and lost friends ighting for the federation. This alone gives him a much higher commitment to Federation reform than Kamille ever would. I'm also not sure I could ever see Kamille fighting for the federation after Dublin.

>>15249521

I agree, but it's pretty easy to see he'd never join Char either, given that by the end of Zeta he's declaring that nothing is worth starting a war over, that the evil people are the ones who continue fighting and so on. He might sympathize with Char's ideals, but he would never condone his actions, and is far more likely to help try to stop him than join him.

>>15249521
Couldn't see Kamille fighting for Zeon ever, yeah he might have some Deikun ideas influenced by Char but none of that runs counter to what Amuro tells Char. "Yeah it's HAPPENING just give people time, fag."

>>15249372
The only way I could possibly ever see Kamille fall in line with Chars whole ideal in CCA would be...

1. His mind would need to survive the events of Grpys 2 and his battle with Scirroco, along with Char actually returning to helm AEUG after the battle.
2. Witness the Federations continued decadence and corruption, such as them allowing a colony to be dropped on Earth, along with bowing and kneeling to Hamans Neo Zeon.
3. Chars AEUG is the unit responsible for destroying Axis Zeon instead of the internal civil war between Haman and Glemy. The Federation takes credit for this victory and begins using the momentum to apply more pressure to the sides.
4. Little to no contact with Amuro Ray, despite Kamilles deep respect and admiration for Char, even he realized the dangers that came with someone like him gaining power. Amuro's previous experiences with Char is a good source for how twisted the real Char is.

Kind of funny actually, In Shin Gihrens Greed, the game comes with the option to recruit just about anyone who was killed or is inactive after the OYW, 0083, Zeta and ZZ. While Chars Neo Zeon has total access to just about everyone, Kamille Bidan, Judau, Fa and Roux are all not possible to be recruited by him using history points. When Char eventually does get to invade the Earth in the game and you encounter Kamille, you do get a conversation between them, roughly translating to...

Char: "Kamille...your still...
Kamille: "..."
Char: "Can't you see the Federation is abusing your talents?"
Kamille: "I fought alongside a man who saw the potential for humanity to reform into newtypes named Quattro. That man died six years ago to Haman Kahn..."
Char: "What are you talking about?"
Kamille: "Char Aznable, just another ghost of Zeon like Haman Kahn!
Char: "K-kamille...!"

Kind of a rough version of it, but rather close to the original conversation.

>>15249570

Even then I'd think he's more likely to join or try and start an A.E.U.G. like group with more peaceful intentions that actively tries to stop Char while also opposing the Federation. I just can't ever see him helping Char.

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>>15249539
This is why despite the fact that I would love to see kamille in a gundam again, or at least animated. I'm glad he hasn't been thrown into a place he doesn't belong. At the end of the day he's not a clean feddy or a true Zeek. Most I can see him doing is getting in a suit to stop an individual nut job, and moving on with his life.

>>15249550
>"Yeah it's HAPPENING just give people time, fag."
It never happens. Humanity will destroy itself.

>>15249570
>His mind would need to survive the events of Grpys 2 and his battle with Scirroco, along with Char actually returning to helm AEUG after the battle.
Actually that sounds like a pretty good Gihren's Greed route. "Quattro's AUEG", you play through the first Neo Zeon War best ending results in a truly new and reformed earth federation government.

>>15249742
That actually is a route that can happen in Axis V of the series. If your alignment is completely lawful, you kept the Argama actively on duty and also chose not to align your forces with Axis to fight the Titans, after the battle of Grpys 2 comes to an end, you will be alerted that Fa wishes to retire from military duty. If you agree to let her leave, Kamille, Bright and Astonage will all return to active duty, along with Quattro chosing to return to AEUG instead of going into hiding. You will lose out on getting Judau and friends, but will have Amuro, Kamille and Quattro all in your army. If you manage to destroy Haman's and Glemy's Axis forces with perfect lawful alignment, you will get the perfect ending where Blex and Char destroy the Federation's bearacracy and begin to peacefully move mankind into space, while also having fair representation for humanity.

If you fail to keep your alignment or Quattro never return, you will have to fight Char in 0093. After winning, Blex tries his best to reform Earth, but the Federation gain to much power over him and the cycle of conflict continues all over again.