So I decided to rewatch all of Gen-3 of AGE to see where it went

>>15210382
>Flawed and naive, but not being a holier than thou dickhead about wanting peace.

Hino said that was the whole point, Kio was naive.

He was the last cool of Asunos, but the kid tried his best to keep his conscience intact. The war wasn't his thing, which is why he had the greatest impact (in games) as a civilian researcher that solved the Mars Rays problem.

>>15210382
Kio was just a kid who wanted everyone to stop killing each other but didn't how to pull it off, the show definitely made it a point that his way was no good. He could keep away with it as far as grunts were concerned but everytime he faced an enemy he couldn't disable to win he resorted to misplaced naive talk which made him rather grating. In the end he finally managed to get it right by convincing his grandfather to let go of his desire for revenge.

Girard Spriggan was awful, period. Yeah she was hot, had a great suit and had a lot of animation budget put into it, yether character still sucked and took everything down with her during her arc.

The only way to make sense of Ezelcant is by pulling the insanity card, and it still doesn't work quite well. It also doesn't explain how the vagan could eat any of his bullshit, especially Zeheart. Oh wait, mind control foreshadowing that was forgotten just after being introduced, dropped plot point due to cancellation?

If you consider that Ezelcant was mad but with powerful brainwashing powers, they could have fixed a lot of AGE problems and just brushed the show as just mech porn with a weak plotline. Everyone sucks MJP for having nothing but "evil aliens attack earth" plot after all.

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>>15210437
>It also doesn't explain how the vagan could eat any of his bullshit,

Everyone has cancer, is slowly dying, and have therefore lost the will to live. Ezelcant gave them a seemingly selfless cause to die for. Vagan citizens accept it because it beats twiddling your thumbs and just waiting for death.

I like hoe Elzecunt's plan is a place without war which was what everything was before the vegans started killing people.

>>15210449
The random Vegans didn't know about the whole "end all conflicts" thing, only his inner circle did. The common Vegan got whipped into a fanatical frenzy with that bullshit about taking the earth for themselves and wiping out those damn descendents of those people that abandon them.

>>15210476
Exactly. He only told those outside of his inner circle what they WANTED to believe Eden to be. He painted it as a selfless cause to die for and they accepted because "beats standing around waiting for death".

>>15210450
Don't forget the part where it's revealed that the Vegans were willingly parking their asses in the mars cancer rays area that keeps making them sick for over 100 years and that its shown that they could have just moved the colony the whole time.

>>15210449
>Everyone has cancer, is slowly dying, and have therefore lost the will to live
Then you realize that their Second Moon main colony could travel to the Earth Sphere.

>>15210476
>>15210483
Does that mean that Flit was doing the right thing by trying to wipe them off?

>>15210493
And that the warships and MS they spent a century building could have been used to transport civilians back to earth instead.

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>>15210485
>>15210493
>This argument

WHERE
WOULD
THEY
GO
????

The Federation barred them from returning to earth remember? And contrary to what you think, propellant fuel isn't a magical resource that they can just spam to infinity until they find a new planet to colonize. Additionally they would run out of food and water long before they even reach a new world to colonize. And even THEN, they can't ALL go into cryosleep for the trip, so while everyone else is in stasis, the guys making sure the engines are running eventually die out, and then you got a space colony of frozen people drifting aimlessly across the solar system.

>>15210497
See above: Federation barred them from returning because what if Mars cancer is contagious? May have been a hundred years since then, but considering Grodek got arrested so the top brass could cover their asses about the whole thing, I don't think they totally forgot about the sick mars colonists.

>>15210517

>Fly back to earth
>Announce themselves to be the abandoned colonists
>Sue Federation Govt. for reparations

The Feds didn't bar them from returning though, the feds pretended they all died and then forgot about it - if they actually had come back the backlash against the government would have been huge, mars rays or not.

>>15210517
They could just park at one of the Lagrange Points. Then Second Moon becomes another space colony. Everyone wins.

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>>15210617
>Sue Federation Govt. for reparations
I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way. Especially with the federation in control of a rather sizable bulwark of a military.

>>15210683
Okay smart guy. What would have stopped the feds from razing Second Moon to shit and covering up the whole thing like they did all their other bullshit? This is a federation that before Grodek and Flit blew the lid on things, liked to keep dirty little secrets in the hush-hush.

>>15210437
I'm still disappointed we never got a fight between Flit and Ezelcunt. Aside from the face that a battle between geriatrics would be a Gundam first, I liked the idea of Ezelcunt being confronted with the fact that the culmination of his bullshit plan was the creation of someone as bitter and hateful as Flit, rather than that ridiculous Eden nonsense.

>>15210382
still better than IBO

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>>15210742
The thing is Ezelcant already knows his plan is bullshit, and would probably argue that Flit being a product of it enforces that his crazy natural selection works. That BECAUSE Flit survived everything the Vagans did, he would be one of the selected people that gets to bring about Eden. Granted it wouldn't put a dent in Flit's resolve, but nothing Flit could say could really debunk Project Eden.

The whole conflict pretty much boils down to Authoritarianism VS Authoritarianism in which Flit believes HE should be in charge so the federation can get genocide done quicker while Ezelcant IS in charge, and is leading his blindly loyal people to their deaths.

>>15210517
>WHERE
>WOULD
>THEY
>GO
Anywhere but Mars that only gave them space aids?

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>>15211420
>Hurr I didn't ackshually read ur post

>>>/out/

>>15210517

> This argument.

Given that the franchise, including AGE itself, is rife with self sustaining colonies that float in outer space they could go anywhere within the Sun's influence frankly. They don't actually need a planet. It'd be nice, but if it's a choice between living on a planet that's killing you and living in a colony, the choice seems pretty clear.

>>15210736

You do recall that it was an early plot point that the Earth Federation had quite literally no weaponry capable of damaging Vegan stuff I hope? The Federation couldn't damage Vegan tech until Flit made the AGE-1, and even then only his unit could do it for a few years. And the Vegans had been attacking intermittently with over a decade by the point the AGE-1 came about.

Even if the Vegans rocked up in orbit and were unable to broadcast a message to the wider public saying "We're here" that the AGE Federation couldn't cover up, which is highly unlikely in itself, since you can't cover up something that large or even if enough of majority of the public went "So what? Fuck off" that the Federation would be able to act freely, which is also unlikely, then the Vegans could have conquered the whole Earthsphere in a few days if they'd wanted for at least a few decades and quite possibly have suffered no casualties in the effort.

>>15211489
It doesn't matter if they need a planet or not. The Federation would still say "No" and build a fucking wall to keep Mars out. Additionally considering they've been forgotten by the overall public, people would still freak out if they saw a massive eye-shaped space colony cruising their way, which would again alert the federation and drive them to cover it up and take care of it as quickly and as quietly as possible.

>You do recall that it was an early plot point that the Earth Federation had quite literally no weaponry capable of damaging Vegan stuff

Yes, but they also lacked manpower. So even if Genoaces couldn't do much against Gafrans, the feddies still outnumbered the Vagans when they started their attacks and a direct assault would have resulted in Second Moon getting steamrolled and obliterated. Ezelcant's eugenics aside, this was the reason Yark Dole simply organized terrorist attacks on the colonies instead of gunning straight for the Big Wheel.

>>15211688

> It doesn't matter if they need a planet or not
> The Federation will build a wall around random area of space the Vegans park at and keep them out

> people would freak out if they saw a spaceship
> this will somehow allow the Federation to cover up it's existence despite the public being aware of it being what sets them off

Your points make no sense.

> they also lack manpower

When you can no-sell anything your opposition fields it doesn't actually matter.

> a direct assault would have resulted in the Federation destroying technology they demonstrably cannot harm

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>>15211709
Let me explain more clearly so you can understand this genius. By "taking care of it quickly and quietly", I mean sending death squads in there to kill everyone before they can get in their mobile suits and then go on TV saying "Oh! It's...some kind of alien threat that was gonna suck out your brains and take all your knowledge! But don't worry! Our boys in the Genoaces took care of it!"

Second of all: Tough armor does not make you invincible, and a direct assault on an army that outguns you-even if the guns are pea-shooters, it will still spur them to steal some of your tech, and use it against you. Remember season one of 00 and how even though the gundams could just shrug off everything thrown at them, they still struggled against the different military blocks because it was only four souped up MS against three armies that then merged into one? It's like that.The federation had reserves, the Vagans did not. This is how wars are fought and won kiddo.

But please. Continue to try to defend this plothole you are against all logic trying to defend when it has been graciously covered up for you.

>>15211756

Let me explain it so you can understand: If the public panic alerts the Federation to their presence then they cannot get rid of them "quietly" in any way, since in a connected age there is no way to actually prevent that knowledge spreading. You can contain it only if the amount of people who know about it is small and you quickly shut them down. A colony appearing in the sky is not a small thing. Not to mention that even if they appear in the sky there is no reason for them not to broadcast something showing they are actually humans and preventing the Federation from trying to do just that. Like any kind of broadcast at all. Not everyone will want to listen, but enough will that no government will be able to freely act to shut them out since anything they try will be publicly stalled if not outright stopped.

You need to be able to knock an enemy down or out to steal their tech, as well as survive to disseminate it - so if their armor prevents you from doing that then you cannot do so. Which is probably why the Federation had not actually done so at any point in the decade or more since the Vegans began attacking. Because every force they fielded was destroyed.

The Gundams in 00 struggled because they were 4 people taking on an entire battlefield, and even then they fought for over a day against the entire unified army in season one. If your army isn't 4 guys, then it does matter if you are invincible. Kiddo. The Vegans might not have the numbers of the Federation, but they aren't 4 guys either.

If the Vegans park anywhere outside the Earthsphere, like Jupiter, Venus, or just a random spot in the middle of nowhere the Earth Federation won't even realize they're are there and won't care even if they happen to detect them since they're too far away to do anything.

But please, continue to try to defend this plothole against all logic.

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>>15211809
>If the Vegans park anywhere outside the Earthsphere, like Jupiter, Venus, or just a random spot in the middle of nowhere

>Which goes completely against their desire to come home

That's not even getting into how they're just trading one barren planet for another. Even Crossbone Gundam addresses how fucked Jovians are because even though those guys maintained contact with the UC federation, their food and water resources were still scarce as shit.

>You need to be able to knock an enemy down or out to steal their tech
Going back to the 00 comparison, there were at least two times where one (Human Reform League) or all three power blocks almost did just that. Wanna know how they did it? They had more manpower. Try again.

>every force they fielded was destroyed.
These were small squadrons that were regulated to guard duty. I'm talking about full-blown army VS the forces of Ambat. That's like one space fortress and one massive warship against several fleets of warships and mobile suits. Not just a ragtag fleet of mafia gangsters. Feds would have fucked them over like Zeon and call it a day. There would be a lot of casualties, but having the bigger army, they would still probably win.

But again, this latter argument is just you bending over backwards so you can continue to ask your question of "Why couldn't dey just move da colony away to begin with?" No matter what you come up with, the answer is they couldn't. They couldn't just park next to some colony without the federation getting involved, and they couldn't just park next to Jupiter or Venus because A: That isn't what they fucking wanted, and B: It's trading one barren planet for another!

>>15211872

> That's not even getting into how they're just trading one barren planet for another.

Does it get in to how the initial point was that having a planet is nice, but living on a self sustaining colony instead of a planet that's killing you is better? Because whether a planet is barren or not has no bearing on the matter of them living on something besides a planet, even if the thing they live in orbits a different planet.

> Going back to 00 comparisons

Going back to the exact same point: the comparison falls apart when you have more than 4 people and they only "nearly" managed it even when fighting only 4 people despite the numbers advantage. Try again.

> I'm talking about full blown army VS the forces of Ambat.

And a full blown army has been defeated before in Gundam by a tiny but technologically superior force. Ones that didn't have anything like a massive warship or a space fortress.

> having the bigger army, they would still probably win

History in Gundam says otherwise.

> you bending over backwards

You mean trying to use real life military doctrine to talk about how war is depicted in a science fantasy that has had examples of huge forces defeated by tiny but technologically superior ones before kind of bending over backwards?

They Vegans absolutely could move the colony; they just didn't. And if they'd chosen to move it anywhere but Earth the Federation wouldn't know or care, even if they could stop them. Which they couldn't. They had neither the technology nor the desire to mess with the Vegan if they moved from Mars to Venus, and only wanted to stop them when they thought about Earth.

>>15211902
>History in Gundam says otherwise.
Except that ultimately is how the feddies won the one year war in the first place genius. Yeah Amuro and the White Base did most of the work by dealing with all the top aces, but then you had all these sidestories of the feddies slowly but surely overwhelming Zeon through numbers. You can scream about "Muh invulnerable armor!" all you want! Pilots get tired out. And when some of your guys are also suffering from space cancer, you're gonna gas out against a full-blown army even quicker.

>They Vegans absolutely could move the colony; they just didn't. And if they'd chosen to move it anywhere but Earth the Federation wouldn't know or care, even if they could stop them. Which they couldn't. They had neither the technology nor the desire to mess with the Vegan if they moved from Mars to Venus, and only wanted to stop them when they thought about Earth.

You're missing the point dumbass. The Vagans didn't WANT to just move to Venus or Jupiter. They wanted to go back to Earth! Imagine you're living on a dying colony and you're told you can't come back and should just quietly go die somewhere else. Would YOU want to take that laying down? No! You wouldn't! You'd be kinda pissed wouldn't you?


I swear to fuck. The lengths to which some of you will go just so you can continue to bitch about a minor detail that's easily explained, and doesn't necessarily need fanfic power to fix.

>>15211932

> Except that ultimately is how the feddies won the one year war

Yes, because that's absolutely the only example of a smaller force taking on a larger one in Gundam.

> You can scream

Oh good, you're trying to attack my character. That's healthy debate at it's finest.

> Pilots get tired out

And when you have more than 4 you can usually organize them in to shifts to help alleviate that.

> You're missing the point

No, you are. The Vegans only wanted Earth so bad because Ezelcant promised it, and even if they wanted it all along it doesn't matter because when the choice is Mars Rays killing you, big war for Earth or health in a colony around someplace else whether you dream of Earth or want revenge doesn't actually mean you'll go gung ho about the war and revenge. Some will, many won't.

> you should just quietly go die

The entire point is that they can quietly live despite Earth by ignoring them, not quietly die because Earth says so.

> The lengths to which some of you will go

Irony at it's finest.

> doesn't necessarily need fanfic power to fix

Odd that you keep using fanfics like that you can cite other Gundams to explain it so.