Shinn did nothing wrong

>>15198274

Even if that was true he'd still be stuffed head-first into a toilet pipe by the end of Destiny by hook or by crook. You simple don't get in-between the director and his envisioned perfect ending.

It would have hurt more if Shinn was well-developed, well-mannered, and still ended up drinking the Gil soup at the end.

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I know <3

>>15198274
He failed to kill Kira

I stopped paying attention at episode 40, what did Shinn do wrong? I thought Durandal was just using him as a pawn to try and fuck with the Lacus faction.

>>15198289
But Gil was in the right, so I don't see any problem with this.

What would happen if Shinn was thrown in to these timelines:

>UC
>FC
>AC
>AW
>CC
>AD
>AG
>BF
>RC
>PD

>>15198964
If that was said in context to just about any other Universe in Gundam, i'd have disagreed with you. But the Cosmic Era was such a vile and horrible place to live that maybe genetic communism was the only way to get the world to finally calm down. Honestly, what other options existed?

Blue Cosmos/LOGOS: An Illuminati-type group that has no qualms killing its own people to maintain a shady totaltarian regime. Destroying the Coordinators has some merrit, but the group itself was damning to the entire human race as a whole.

Clyne Faction: What plan? She literally door kicks Z.A.F.T and the PLANTs and becomes the decato leader of the colonies. She never has a plan outlined and generally seems to have no real practical experience as politician. At least Gil and LOGOS had something resembling a plan that could have done something for mankind.

>>15198544
This

>>15198974
>UC
Smacked by Bright and get his shit sorted out.
>FC
He'd probably fit in well with Heero and the other edgelords.

>>15198770
He's fighting for Gilbert, so he's a badguy, because Gilbert's a badguy.

The problem I have with the series and retroactive explainations that Shinn is becoming unhinged and used by Gilbert's ZAFT is that he isn't being used as a pawn any more so than anyone else in ZAFT. He's a pilot. That's what he does. That's all he does. The story goes out of it's way to exclude him from the major plot points of the series outside of that. Why does Shinn believe in the Destiny Plan? Like much of ZAFT, it seems like an...okay idea at the time? Nobody really knows what the say about it, but goes along with it, just because. Way to show that everyone's wrapped up in a frenzy being manuiplated by the big dog

Gilbert gives him a FAITH badge. What does he use it for? He launches in a battle against Orb that the captain was going to let him go out anyway.
He's an attack dog!: Gilbert has him hang out at Messiah instead of doing something like making a beeline for the Eternal and sinking it. Shit, Lunameria encounters the Eternal (so we can have those insufferable Tri-Star clones attack her)

See, it would be reallly easy to establish that Gilbert is trying to influence him by having Gilbert give him shit he doesn't deserve and have it get to him. Maybe he assigns him a special squad or whatever, but since he's not good at leading, they get killed in battle. Maybe he tries to hype him up as the new hero of ZAFT like many other series's factions try to do, and the pressure gets to him.
Maybe Gilbert tries running the Destiny Plan on Shinn, and sees that his desire to get over loss makes him stronger, so Lunameria is kidnapped/"defects" and instead of getting stronger, Shinn breaks down; tying him to the current plot of the series and showing that the Destiny Plan really sucks.

But instead, we don't get that. We get shouting match with Athrun, and an embarrassing final battle, because they don't have time, money or a script anymore at this point.

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>>15198974
>UC
Early UC - same as kamille but angrier
Late UC- he would've gotten a Victory and he would kick ass in it
>FC
Gundam powered by pure fucking anger
>AC
Depends wether he gets a gundam or a leo variant
Either way he would probably survive
>AW
Joins the EF and pilots a Custom Daughtress Neo helping against NEO-Neo- Neo Zeon
>CC
Sees the Turns and gets the itch to join the battle
The deciding factor is that he fell in love with a pilot named Laura.
Later he finds out that it's actually a guy,
he still goes for it (the lack of Luna really affected him)
>AD
Gets scouted for Celestial Being Team B and helps from the shadows
Alt.
Joins the A-laws and later becomes an ace, piloting a red white and blue GN-XIV
>AG
Becomes an ace and Flit takes him under his wing and gives him the AGE-3
>BF
He finally gets an Impulse Destiny MG wins the world tournament and marries Not-Lunamaria.
>RC
Joins the Capital guard, follows Kerbes everywhere seeing him as a mentor of sorts, later joins the megafauna becomes bros with Bell and asks him to introduce him to his sister, Bell gets frustrated about this and shoots warning shots at him occasionally
>PD
Acts as a another mentor for Mika (kind of like Shinn/Kazuki in SRW UX)

His themes are fucking awesome.

http://downloads.khinsider.com/game-soundtracks/album/gundam-seed-destiny-original-soundtrack-1/20-nikurashimi-arebasoko.mp3
http://downloads.khinsider.com/game-soundtracks/album/mobile-suit-gundam-seed-destiny-original-soundtrack-iii/07-dassou.mp3

And their structure (considering the music would have to be finished, or almost finished before the show starts) shows Shinn's actual role in the story. These are not the themes of a character that eventually sees the light and joins the good guys. These are some dark themes and fit more for a character that is a 'fallen hero' type character.

>>15198274
He let Kira steel his show

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>>15199215
Even his suit's theme sounds like that
http://downloads.khinsider.com/game-soundtracks/album/gundam-seed-destiny-original-soundtrack-2/01-shutsugeki-impulse.mp3

>>15199177
So the show is garbage and Shinn is only a villain because of circular reasoning and Fukuda's hard on for Kira?

Only Filipinos and Kira fans straight out hate him to the point they can't shut up about it after so many years.

>>15199201
>Gets scouted for Celestial Being Team B and helps from the shadows
Somehow I think a death match between Shinn and Ali would have been glorious.

[fish themed image macro]

>>15199177
>Gilbert
>badguy

Brianlets, please don't respond.

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>>15201013
lewd

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>>15199548

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>>15199177
>Maybe he assigns him a special squad or whatever, but since he's not good at leading, they get killed in battle.

Being a kindergarten teacher might actually have kicked Shinn out of his rage haze. Maybe not off all of them, but depending on squad composition and the character types involved, offing one or two might make him grow the fuck up enough to stop getting them killed.

Alternatively because the great director must have his way, you'll just get Berlin arc 2.0 for the last 15 episodes to the end.

>male squad nuggets die in 3 second scenes in batches
>each female squad nugget get retrieved from the wreck, a few sappy lines, and 10 minutes of post-death Shinn angst on every death episode until the last episode

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>>15203005
Why Kira look angry while Lacus look happy?


>>15199177
Destiny Plan OK only if you are coordinator with superior DNA.

>>15199964
But Filipinos hate Kira too.

>>15198274
Arguably yes since he stayed loyal to ZAFT to the end but he's still an asshole.

>>15203337
That is a very nice crotch accessory.

>>15198274
Shinn is a decent guy corrupted by a bad series, with bad writing.

>>15203005
The point of the squad isn't to change his character, but to enforce the idea that he's in over his head and the Chairman is trying to mold him into something he isn't or can't.

I'm just suggesting ideas of how to show that Shinn is going towards a dark path. We're repeatedly toward that that he was being fooled, manipulated and becoming mentally unbalanced, but it's more of GSD's tell and not show.

If your not going to bother show how the character ends up like that, then it feels more like he's being written like how bad fanfiction writers write characters they don't like.

>>15203005
Stop the Lacus bully

>>15198274
>>15198274
Which is why SRW Z Shinn is the only one I believe in.

>>15198274
He stabbed suits through the torso with a giant sword and couldn't even kill the occupants. Twice.

>>15206416
I see people suck SRW Shinn's dick all the time. What happens there that makes people love him suddenly so much?

>>15207287

As far as Z goes, he has more friendly interactions with various characters, the narrative actually sides with him for most of his earlier actions (like if you take the route that stays with him, by the time of Angel Down taking out Kira is seen as something necessary by most characters) and it's possible to make him defect from ZAFT for the final Destiny arc - and even if you don't do that, he rejoins right afterwards anyway.

>>15207315
>taking out Kira is seen as something necessary by most characters

Woah, holy shit. This is awesome. What did Jesus do to make that happen?

>>15207330
What Jesus Yamato does best: pissing everyone off (including Loran the pacifist!) by interfering with battles and getting Heine killed, all the while holding a holier-than-thou attitude.

>>15207355
Holy shit. Does he actually die?
This is SRW Z, right? Is there an english patch available?

>>15207386
No. What made you think they'd kill Kira off?

He does apologize for his actions of interference after he joins your merry band, though, which is by and far above and beyond anything that came out of him in the original series.

>>15207330
The same things he does in canon. Only difference is SRW Z is more willing to actually discuss what he's doing. The writers basically deconstructed Kira and Lacus, calling them self-righteous terrorists who don't consider the consequences of their actions. They crash battles and make everything more chaotic, disabling MS would leave pilots unable to defend themselves surrounded by enemies, they attack with people provoking them first, they're not making a case for their actions to others yet the show treats people who go against them as misguided, they don't give a shit about what either side is trying to accomplish in a battle (ignoring who is on the obvious defensive or, in one case, that the EA/Orb are trying to destroy evidence of crimes against humanity). They were fucking disgusted by Kira destroying the Savior, with the characters fully knowing Athrun is his best friend. The game presents Kira not as the hero for the most part, but a danger to people (with his fighting style being seen as both arrogant (by Tetsuya) and something that would get his allies killed in the long run (Harry Ord))

In short the game treated them like Celestial Being in 00 season 1, whose second season started just after the game was released.

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>>15207330

>>15207435
>they attack with people provoking them first

I meant they attack people that haven't provoked them.

The whole thing can be summed up to these characters, in the name of accomplishing their own goals, do whatever the hell they want regardless of the consequences it would have for others. They're not acting smart and are antagonizing everyone else. These are not the actions one would associate with peaceful people, and glorifying them the way the show does is very dangerous. All of the pretty words they spout are just that, words and any intended message to them is completely undermined by their actions.

>>15207386
nope. he admits that he was wrong though.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but K is the only SRW that played Destiny's plot straight isn't it? L altered it quite a bit, we all know what Z did, and everything else was post plot.

>>15207287
He's more of a well-rounded character, and the game doesn't make him the antagonist just because there needs to be an antagonist. It doesn't completely change his character, but actually bothers giving him a supporting cast that will actually bother supporting him, but also have characters that will call him out for nonsense, much like they'd do anyone else.

For example, when Shinn helps Stella get away, it plays out as normally, but prior to this event, but Kamille is there. When he comes back and gives off his sarcastic "apology" to Athrun, Kamille tells him off, and says that just because Durandal says it's right doesn't automatically make it right and he's not thinking for himself. Shinn tells him he doesn't have to put up with that sort of crap from Kamille because he's been trying to save Four as well. and storms off.
BUT before the mission begin, they resolve their argument and move out.

The series takes his character in the direction of that he wants to fight to end the war and that he might just be not thinking hard enough about how to do it and is just letting Gilbert tell him what to do because it sounds "right". He's not so sure about the Destiny
But with the ZEUTH route, he's forced to make a decision on what he believes in and who to side with, and he decides to go with ZEUTH instead of ZAFT, showing that he's willing to make his own choices.

There's also a lot of attempts at cutting down on GSD's more sillier elements like the battle at Orb, and the people that try to kill Lacus aren't attacking in ZAFT mobile suits.

>>15207330
A few of the characters have met him before that time, and all they really know about him is that he fought in the Jachin Due battles.

But when ZEUTH decides to split up because they have different goals in mind, that puts them in opposition of him because the Archangel Crew is trying to stop Orb from fighting, in the same they did in the series.

While they're trying to go to Gibraltar, they get attacked by the Phantom Pain, which consists of the Titans, EA and Orb units. The Orb units appear behind you and close in. The Archangel shows up, Cagaili does her thing, Talia tries to open a path with the Minerva, and Kira shoots out the cannon. Everyone is wondering what the hell is going on, and why they're getting shot at when they're clearly not the aggressors.
Nearing the battle's end, Heine tries to stop the Freedom, gets disabled, and then someone from the Moonrace shoots him down when they land.
Most of the younger guys in the cast are pissed off, but guys like Amuro and Quattro blame the circumstances.

But in the next mission, a lot of your supporting cast/captains are at the abandoned Extended base, and Phantom Pain wants it rubbed out because it could be used as proaganda against them. But then here comes the Archangel, here to pull the same shit from before, and after Kira shoots down Athrun, that's when everyone starts to get pissed off >>15207616 because they don't know what's going on, but are shooting at everyone for some dubious goal of theirs.

Even after everyone realizes that ZEUTH was manipulated into fighting itself, ZAFT-ZEUTH stays pissed off at the Archangel until they're convinced to work with them by Talia.

Of course, on the fighting ZAFT-Route, it goes a little easier because the Archangel shows up to help you after you get jumped by aliens,.

>>15208511
>and the people that try to kill Lacus aren't attacking in ZAFT mobile suits
Wasn't that the whole idea, though? That Gilbert sent assassins after her to silence her and make 'his' Lacus the only one?

>>15209469
It was supposed to be a secret operation though. Why would they be using top of the line out of the factory suits when they're supposed to be concealing their identity?

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>>15198274
DOG ONLY FEED ON SHAME!

>>15209484

Why would they use mobile suits at all? Just sneak into their house at night turn on the gas and light a match

And yet ironically Kira ended up being right about Durandal in Z since Durandal gotta Durandal in an attempt to dispose ZEUTH once its usefulness to him is gone just like with Athrun

>>15208511

Not sure what's a worse death for Yuna, crushed by a crashing mobile suit (GSD) or getting SHINING FINGER in the face (SRW Z)

>>15209497

Well, they tried the "sneaking into their home and assassinate them" bit in the show. Then they failed miserably and had to use mobile suits

>>15209497
Hit it with a fucking airstrike
Kira won't be able to react to that
He won't know where it hit him from even if him and Lacus somehow survive

>>15208457
Scramble Commander 2 also played GSD plot's straight.

I haven't watched SEED or even Destiny yet because I'm working my way through the franchise.
Gotta ask though: Outside of Kira being hated because of his character-wank, he's also hated because in Destiny he attacks both sides or something in an effort to cease conflict, which only causes more casualties and increases tensions right?

Isn't that what Celestial Being does on a less extreme level?
Correct me if I'm wrong, like I said I haven't watched the show yet and am only relying on heresay.

>>15209893
Let me put it like this, the first season of 00 can be seen as the franchise addressing the nature of Kira's actions.

>>15209893
>Isn't that what Celestial Being does on a less extreme level?
This is true. The main difference is that CB realise that their interventions are going to piss a few people off (if not in S1, then definitely after the time skip leading to S2), and the show itself doesn't pretend that they aren't terrorists. On the other hand, Kira is hopelessly naive, or willfully ignorant, about the consequences of his actions, AND the show itself is unwilling to explore the possibility that Kira isn't 100% right.

I haven't watched Destiny yet but it feels like I know every single thing that happens in it just from seeing /m/ mull over it ad infinitum.

>>15209946
Destiny hate is literally what gave birth to /m/

>>15209469

He just hides it better by having non Zaft mercenaries do it, something that's easy to pull off in the chaotic world of Z where all kinds of wandering pilots ended up looking for work to survive.

But Z also has Durandal outright admit he tried to bump her off.

>>15208511
>There's also a lot of attempts at cutting down on GSD's more sillier elements like the battle at Orb

That always happens no matter which side the narrative takes in SRW actually. Almost like they're outright saying it's just a ridciulous way of stretching the conflict out to 50 episodes and forcing Kira and Athrun and Rey and Shinn to fight because nobody else has Gundams anymore.

>>15209922

Personally I always saw it as them seeing how popular Kira's "fight everyone" mentality apparantly was with his fanbase and just designing an entire series around that concept from the start, instead of trying to have a standard Gundam war and then have the fight everyone faction show up and defeat everyone else like both Seed and Destiny did.

>>15209484
Because everyone who would have seen them was supposed to die?

Or maybe it was a win/win for Gilbert either way; maybe it just offended him on some deep genetic-determinationist level that the Ultimate Coordinator was sitting this war out, and even if the assassination failed he stirred up the hornet's nest.

>>15209484

Those were the only suits that could pull off the operation required, of sneaking into Orb's waters and approaching the mansion undetected. Using the other Zaft water MSs would have also required sneaking in a submarine, which probably would have been spotted.

Actually using the suits to level the place was their last desperate option. Originally they were just to sneak the special ops in to shoot her.

>>15207386
Best you'll get is an in-depth translation LP. A bunch of stuff were translated word for word: https://lparchive.org/Super-Robot-Wars-Z/

If you specifically want the mission where everyone calls Kira out, you're looking at "Where Sins Lie"

>>15209791
SC2 changed a few things:

>Operation Angel Down and the Battle of Orb are skipped over
>Kira and the Archangel interfere during the sea battle outside Orb first off, and then at Dardanelles (Crete is skipped over and Auel gets killed by Getter Poseidon at a different time).
>Athrun gets saved from Shinn and Rey instead of being taken down, and he aids Kira when he goes and protects the Eternal
>And lastly, the entire nature of the Destiny Plan is different

>>15209943
Lacus addresses this way back in SEED.

>The choices we're making may be one of evil as well. For we call for peace, but with weapons in our hands. Nevertheless allow us to break this chain of endless conflict. Give us strength.

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>>15207435

SRW also gave him his best waifu

>>15210512

This is also true. Really at no point do Kira and Lacus seem to have the holier than everyone attitude the fanbase acts like they have.

They always seemed perfectly aware they weren't complete holy and caused some problems of their own to me.

The memes of Kira seemed to have mixed with the actual Kira. He never actually shoots at everyone while ordering them to stop fighting in show. That only happens in DWG.

>>15208457

K was pro Kira but mostly cut 80 percent of the plot so they could get the Destiny plot over with ASAP and get everyone on the same side again. It's literally Berlin, Angel Down, Finale, pretty much one after the other before the game's even at the halfway point.

L just cuts the conflict between Shinn and Kira out entirely, having Kira save Stella for him (killing their conflict before it really starts) then sitting out the rest of the story until the finale. Which while it's arguable Destiny with what would have happened if anyone was remotely logical (Ie the two casts actually try working things out and the majority of the conflict is stopped in it's tracks) also means 50 percent of the plot pretty much doesn't happen.

It shows that as stupid as them forcing the old and new casts into conflict was, without that GSD has basically nothing of substance.

>>15210732
>This is also true. Really at no point do Kira and Lacus seem to have the holier than everyone attitude the fanbase acts like they have.


with situations like this, a good portion of the fanbase hasn't watched the actual show. They just go by what gets passed through the grapevine. So what might not actually be true ends up being seen as true

>>15212170
no way they holy pray their sacred way through the ten episodes of looking for salt

>>15198274
He briefly had the starring role in SEED Destiny.

>>15210732
>They always seemed perfectly aware they weren't complete holy and caused some problems of their own to me.
Even during Destiny, they were doubting themselves up until the superweapons started being thrown around and it was time to take care of business.

>>15211576
There's a space of a couple of stages between Angel Down and Messiah, but yeah those three parts are all you do in K.

It's understandable though, Z did the whole plot for it so I imagine people didn't want to do it all over again so soon.

>>15213493
I wish they'd taken the same train of thought with Macross Frontier's endless back-to-back appearances.

I think it would have been more interesting if Kira was the one who fired the shot that killed Shinn's sister, and he saw it happen. It would have been better motivation for Angel Down than "muh retard waifu."

>>15198274
He is the Roman Reigns of Gundam:

A crappy attempt to recreate a far better character. A character which very few people really liked that much anyway, who himself is an attempt to recreate the magic of another popular character.

In this situation, Shinn is Roman, Kira is Cena, Amuro is The Rock

>>15214440
>He is the Roman Reigns of Gundam:
Chicken Howareyou kid was the Romanest.

>>15213485
This is true, they were acting but still questioning whether they were doing the right thing. Hell, the whole series is supposedly about questioning your leaders instead of blindly following them. Given the number of people who question Kira and Lacus, it's hard to say the show is hypocritical in that regard.

Though the DOM Troopers certainly don't help things.

>>15213485
When superweapons started getting thrown around, they sat on the bridge of the Archangel talking about how the Chairman MUST be stopped.

I guess everyone forgot about those PLANTS that just finished getting wiped out? Also, the fact that it happened is kind of your fault?

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>>15198274
Shinn did nothing right.

>>15207435
>>15207679
All well and good, unless you're on the route where you don't end up against them.

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>>15214440
>A character which very few people really liked that much anyway
Hi Shinn.
Bye Shinn. :^)

>>15198274
I came to realise that a SEED Destiny reboot with Urobutcher as the main writer is what I've wanted all along.

How was he in UX?

>>15213608
people can say what they want about Dancouga Nova, Destiny, and even Getter Robo Armageddon appearing in games recently, but at least we went one or two games without at least one of those shows being in.

Meanwhile, Frontier is just in fucking EVERYTHING starting from L

>>15218436
from what i remember he was alright. But UX was post script with Destiny.

>>15218560
>>15218436
To the point that Shinn got the most screentime out of everyone, iirc.

>>15210732
I'm watching the show right now and Kira basically constantly goes "but u cant fight :3" while everyone else tries to Actually deal with the situation at hand

>>15207616
You know its bad when god damn Kamille is scolding you

>>15218436
He becomes a mentor to the Fafner characters.
That's pretty much it.

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>>15210622
>his best waifu

HERE COMES A NEW CHALLENGER

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>>15219624

I feel that some context may be required.

>>15198274

Anyone who bears the name Asuka is wrong Anon

>>15199118
>>15199201

He lacks the Vader levels of anger to make it work right and give him focus.

if he had that, the Jesus Yamato and Holy Cyne would had been killed earlier.

>>15219885
It's a Yuru Yuri doujinshi. Shinn is only in it for 2 pages, the rest is mostly futanari. The joke is that Akari and Shinn could be soulmates because both of them fail at being the protagonist of their show.

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>>15207330
Here you go.

>>15198274
He did nothing

>>15198274
fuck off

>>15207315

Shinn is also interestingly one of the few people sympathetic to Suzaku during Z2.

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>>15223930
NO U

>>15207616
Haters gonna hate

>>15198274
neato

>>15219177
Kamille? More like Loran.

Loran is one of the nicest dudes around.

>>15229724

Is this shopped or does she really emote that hard?

>>15236988
That one is real.

Are kira and lacus permavirgins or something? I don't even remember them actually kissing in destiny or seed.
Some weird holy man and virgin mary shit going on

>>15198274
I want to pat his head and say that he did a good job.

>>15207679
At that time they either have to watch Orb burn or join racist team.
What will you do?

>>15237530
At what?

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How many times has on screen sex happened in gundam? Kira is the only gundam lead man enough to get laid.

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>>15209943
>Kira is hopelessly naive, or willfully ignorant
Actually, he already know his action will bring more chaos.

Kira alignment in GSD was Chaotic Good.
He know Durandal (Lawful Evil) path will end all wars but still refused it.

>>15236988

Of course it's shopped. How can the great Lacus-sama ever lose her composure even for a second?

>>15237706
At nothing. Poor guy just deserves to be praised at least once

>>15237527
Kira had sex with Fllay - he can't be a virgin.

>>15237708
Pretty sure the two leads in age got laid, what with having children and all.

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Say something nice about Shinn.

>>15237733
In Generation of CE, if Kira dies Lacus snaps and tries to publicly execute Meer.

>>15245549
That can't be true.

>>15245589
She rallies her remaining allies after Kira and the Archangel are destroyed to kidnap Meer in retaliation. The Minerva ends up wiping out her forces to save Meer.

This is part of the game's bad endings, btw.

>>15245620
Wow.

I had heard that Generation of CE was supposed to have GSD's "real ending" in it, but they couldn't get it done because they rushed the story.

You mind explaining what all of the endings are?

>>15244499
His Mobile Suits are too cool for him.

>>15245665
https://desuarchive.org/m/thread/14940338/#14940338

Here's the info you need.

>>15244499
Impulse was really cool. Wish Kira had kept the Strike through Seed so we could see some intense backpack-switching shenanigans when they fought.

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>>15244499
He's got a cute wife, both in 2D and 3D.

>>15245713
Why is everything here more interesting than what happened in the series?

>>15245718
The Strike can't switch packs mid-fight unless it returns to the Archangel.

>>15245713
>I've always thought it would have been amazing if Kira died when Assram self-destructed the Aegis on him. Assram could have taken over as protagonist and formed a new faction due to guilt over killing his best friend. It could have been a ballsy and daring twist for a Gundam series.
Is it just me or is this edgy as fuck?

>>15245801
The episodes in Seed where everybody thinks Kira's dead are my favorite parts of the series.

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>>15245781
>The Strike can't switch packs mid-fight unless it returns to the Archangel.

What

>>15237708
>>15239711
>on screen
Flay and Kira re the only ones. We do see the aftermath of McGillis as a young boy though.

Also, Flay and Kira's sex scene caused some controversy in Japan.

>>15245781
I think what you meant to say is that it' IMPRACTICAL for the Strike to switch packs mid-flight. It was done several times in series, but the Striker Pack's lack of independent maneuvering capabilities made it very vulnerable to being shot down on being launched from the Archangel. That was somewhat alleviated during the Earth arc through the use of the Skygraspers, but the problem of the Striker Packs having multiple docking points that need to be lined up separately still remained, requiring great skill from the pilot to pull off. No one except Jesus could have done it, basically. The Impulse was developed to improve on the Strike's concept, and that's why it has that unmanned flight unit to guide the Silhouette Packs to it, and why the packs only attach to a single hardpoint.

>>15217492
Destiny had a bad habit of saying the Archangel crew was against the war in general, but then going out of its way to make 90% of their battles against ZAFT, to force the Kira vs Shinn fights. Even then, the finale copped out of SF vs Destiny, in favor of Providence stock footage.

Kira and Shinn want the same thing: to end war. They're only fighting each other because a lot of other shit (Durandal, Stella, Orb) got in the way.

>>15198274
/m/, refresh my memory on four things:
>Why did Shinn hate Orb so much at the start of the series?
>Why did Shinn want to outright destroy Orb at the end of the series?
>How did Murrue, a Natural captain, keep getting the upper hand against Talia, an equally skilled Coordinator captain?
>Why the fuck did Talia did with Durandal and Rey at the end?

>>15246603
>Why did Shinn hate Orb so much at the start of the series?

Shinn's family was killed during the invasion of Orb at the end of SEED. They had honestly believed Uzumi's words that the war wouldn't come to Orb and they subscribed to his beliefs. Orb got backed into a corner: Either join the EA or be destroyed. Orb fought a battle it couldn't win, many lives were lost, and Shinn blamed the Uzumi for not being powerful enough to back up his words as well as being a hypocrite. And to make matters worse, Uzumi blew himself up rather than deal with the fallout.

Doesn't really help that Orb was pulling all kinds of under the table deals during the war. Like building the Gundams for the EA (so one Orb noble could make his own MS to take over the world). That shit would have gotten out, especially when the peace treaty put sanctions against Orb.

> Why did Shinn want to outright destroy Orb at the end of the series?

Orb pretty much proved Shinn right during Destiny. They tried to shoot the Minerva in the back after the Minerva returned Cagalli, were joined with the EA, and Cagalli kept interfering with battles. If you actually listen to what Shinn has to say regarding Orb, they just spent the entire series proving him right.

When it came to ZAFT attacking Orb, you have to remember Orb was harboring Djibril and would rather put up a fight than hand him over. It's what happened with Shinn's family all over again. And even then, it's not like Shinn was going after civilian buildings. He was just trying to do his job as a soldier.

With the fuckoff space gun, Orb had launched a fleet to attack ZAFT.

> How did Murrue, a Natural captain, keep getting the upper hand against Talia, an equally skilled Coordinator captain?

Experience, plus having Kira is a big plus.

> Why the fuck did Talia did with Durandal and Rey at the end?

Because shit writing.

>>15246603
>How did Murrue, a Natural captain, keep getting the upper hand against Talia, an equally skilled Coordinator captain?

Because Minerva was staffed with rookies, while AA had veterans of the previous wars.

Orders and tactics don't matter when AA's helmsman is an incredible pilot that can barrel roll the ship and dodge cannon fire point blank while Minerva's helmsman is a faceless guy that not once manages to respond to Talia's orders in time.

Also AA is just a better designed ship than Minerva. It can submerge and has it's linier guns able to fire in all directions while Minerva's are always facing forward.

Minerva's design was almost entirely focused on it's positron gun (which was stronger than AA's but that doesn't matter in close range ship combat) and supporting Impulse.

>>15244499
Shinn is a pretty cool in the SRW Z games.

Strong pilot to have around too.

>>15247396
Minerva's crew DRESS have names. They were so busy focusing on the old cast, they got no scenes to flesh out the new cast.

Remember, there was some old guy that played the lead mechanic, but the series ignored him like after episode 10.
This show is a fucking mess.

>>15247773
>This show is a fucking mess.
Indeed. we get like 15 stock footage flashbacks of Shinn's sister dying. It's embarrassing.

>>15247792
How many times does Blitz Gundam show up?

>>15244499
destiny gundam is my favorite mobile suit

>>15247773

To be fair it's not like Neumann ever got any kind of focus ever himself. He just dodged and barrel rolled when Murrue told him to and that was it and almost never got out of his chair. He had maybe two lines of dialogue in Seed that kind of hinted he had a thing for Natarle but that was in.

His only real note was that he was the only one on the iniital EA support staff not to suddenly disapear after they left the EA in Seed.

>most porn of Luna is oversized ass, cow tits with a flabby face.
life is suffering.

>>15247792
>>15247848
My favorite overused flashback is the commander of Artemis talking to Kira.
>But you're already a traitor to your fellow Coordinators
Every fucking other episode, starting from like Episode 6 or so. I imagine the VA would be pissed off that they once paid him once for a line that was used 20+ times.

What ever happened to Alex Dino?

>>15248015
Yeah, but even with shit like that, he's still got more attention put into him than minor characters in the new cast.

You can count the named pilots for the Earth Alliance/LOGOS/Phantom Pain in GSD on ONE HAND

>>15247351
Thank you for the great answers. I actually tried to find the answer on Google (first mistake), and all I found were decade-old posts on random anime forums (second mistake) that amounted to 'Shinn isn't Kira, and he hates Orb because he's a little bitch, and he's not Kira, and I hate him soooooo much because he's not Kira, Destiny sucked until Kira came back'.

>>15247599
Destiny is a surprisingly strong MS in every videogame I've ever seen it featured in. Between that, and how well a snapfit Destiny fared against CHICKENHOWAREYOU in BFT, it's like they're trying to make up for how poorly Destiny fared at the end of its own series.

>>15248015
>>15250075
>>15247773
Remember those two mechanics who were Shinn's friends that weren't Rey and Luna? Neither do I.

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>>15250278
I remember them. One of the mechanics was voiced by the legendary Tomokazu Sugita.

>>15247351
>Doesn't really help that Orb was pulling all kinds of under the table deals during the war. Like building the Gundams for the EA (so one Orb noble could make his own MS to take over the world). That shit would have gotten out, especially when the peace treaty put sanctions against Orb.
To be fair, Uzumi himself didn't authorize that and was left holding the bag for someone else's mistakes. He made plenty of his own as it was, though.

>>15247351
>And to make matters worse, Uzumi blew himself up rather than deal with the fallout
>>15250475
>He made plenty of his own [mistakes] as it was, though.
I forgot about that. Blowing himself up to atone for his failures is one thing, but leaving Cagalli (who has fuck all leadership/political experience) in charge, with zero political allies witihn Orb itself, just makes everything worse.

>>15244499
I always thought his character design minus the Hirai face was fucking adorable and awesome. He has pale skin, red demonic eyes and ebony hair. That was the most Gothic look I have even seen for a character in a mecha at the time. How did they squander such an awesome looking protag in Gundam boggles my mind? He looks like this awesome demonic person who wouldn't hesitate blowing up a city. I personally hate Kira more.

>>15250466
>a GSD character being pretentious
SAY IT AIN'T SO

>>15252389
Damn, that's a finer edge than the Arondight has

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>hanging out with qt /m/en at convention
>"anon what's your favorite gundam"
>"my favorite suit or favorite series?"
>"either one"
>"okay this is embarrassing but it's destiny for both. and shinn is my favorite character"
>they both walk away

I deserved that.

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>>15252514
Aw. Here's a lesson for you: only on the internet you can be yourself.

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>>15252514

YAMETE

>>15252696

No Shinn-dono

>>15252514

Given their ardent reaction to two simple questions, they were probably Lacus bootlickers, so you can rest easy.

>>15252514
i'll be your friend anon kun

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>>15252514

As bad as Destiny is, I prefer it over SEED simply because Shinn's self-destruction over the course of the second half of the series is fun and gives him more humanity than Kira ever had in the original SEED.

Then again I also think Flit's one of the best Gundam leads we've ever gotten (not that AGE isn't terrible).

>>15250278
>Thank you for the great answers. I actually tried to find the answer on Google (first mistake), and all I found were decade-old posts on random anime forums (second mistake) that amounted to 'Shinn isn't Kira, and he hates Orb because he's a little bitch, and he's not Kira, and I hate him soooooo much because he's not Kira, Destiny sucked until Kira came back'.

That's to be expected. The anime community of Destiny's time was a quite different beast than the one we have nowadays. Oh god, just thinking back on it makes me laugh. Remember when people were praising the holy fuck out of Naruto and Bleach because of how mature they were? Or how the fansubs read like a weeaboo fanfiction?

I think a lot of it was the anime community was younger in those days, so a lot of what Shinn was saying went over their heads. Just like how they didn't understand that Kira's actions would be far more morally ambiguous in real life. Hell, people actually believe what Kira does constitutes pacifism.

This is the community that was around when SEED was big. It died down, the Cosmic Era gained it's infamous rep and others have steered away. So it doesn't surprise me that a lot of the discussion online is like that, it's a product of it's era.

>>15253779
>Shinn's self-destruction over the course of the second half of the series
I'd agree with you if there was any indication that it was coming or that it was even happening.

Hardly giving the character any focus and then trying to portray him as broken reeks of retroactive writing.

The only thing he did wrong was going against the will of our lord and savior, Kira, the demi-god who survived a nuclear blast.

>>15253813
I have a friend who watched Destiny when it first aired in English, and to this day he still has the same mentality as >>15250278 described: 'Shinn is a little bitch and everything he does is wrong', 'Kira should've been the protag from the start and everything he does is right'.

The mentality is so pervasive, that we could be talking about something completely unrelated to Gundam (or anime in general), and whenever he talks about a character he dislikes, he'll quickly start comparing that character to Shinn, like Shinn is the yardstick for all of the evils in the world.

>>15254219

That's the power of Jesus's popularity. Writing Shinn as a guy who hated him and everything he stood for was probably a mistake, since that ensured none of Kira's fanbase would give Shinn a chance.

Like imagine if Zeta was written with Kamille hating Amuro's guts and trying to kill him. That would have been the end of Kamille.

>>15256968
Not really. It all depends on how it's handled and on the maturity of the audience.

>>15256968
People refuse to accept Char's actions in CCA because of his popularity.

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What if Shinn survived and became the Vader of SEED?

>>15257005
But he didn't die.

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>>15256977
>how it's handled
>maturity of the audience

>SEED

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I still, to this day, cannot process in my brain why anyone likes Kira. It's horrifying. It feels like I'm in bizarro world where people think backwards or upside-down.

He's worse than Hathaway. Worse than Banana Man. Worse than any of the Wing pilots. Worse than Mikazuki and his handler. Worse than the cast of Try. Worse than the Doozy Bots.

What the FUCK kind of cataclysmic event did I miss that turned millions of people's opinions to shit?

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Destiny is a shit show but IDK I still like Shinn and Luna.

I always like using them in SRW and G Gen and shit.

>>15261502
>He's worse than Hathaway. Worse than Banana Man. Worse than any of the Wing pilots. Worse than Mikazuki and his handler. Worse than the cast of Try. Worse than the Doozy Bots.
Care to elaborate?

>>15261429
>implying teenagers cannot into mature things
>implying works for the teenage audience cannot be mature

>>15261502
He's the MC. Enough said.

>>15237708
Anew and Lockon fucked constantly, but never on screen

>>15262715
Source needed.

>>15261502

He was just kind of a generic nice guy protagonist when people liked him. They just kept it up even after he became Jesus.

>>15261502
>>15262124
Anon? I'm waiting for your further explanation as to why Kira is worse than Hathaway, Banagher, Wufei, etc.

>>15245801
To be fair it's kinda reminiscent of the msg novel

>>15256977

How it's handled is the key. Having Shinn start out hating the guts of all the old characters and spending the first part of the show constantly betrating and insulting Cagalli to tears was not going to sell him to the fans of Seed, who all liked the original characters.

It's not remotely surprising none of the Seed fans liked him. Why would they when all he did was shit over their favorites?

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>>15252493
The Arondight's edge fucking sucks...Tokomon has more fucking edge than that.

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Shinn

>>15250466
best guy

>>15247351

Problem is Shinn never really has a vaild counterpoint for their actions in SEED. Just they suck for not having the strength to repel a full on EA invasion.

I mean if they joined with EA they'd be throwing all their coordinator citizens including Shinn and his family to the group that wants them all dead.

And if they joined with Zaft, it's unlikely Patrick Zala would be any kinder to their natural citizens. And even if Shinn was willing to throw his natural countrymen off to save his own family (and for all his faults, being a coordinator supremicist doesn't seem to be one of them) it would still end with Zala Genesising the earth which probably would have killed his family anyway.

He's harboring violent irrational rage for over 2 years, for something that really could not be helped thanks to the political situation in Seed.

>>15275436
>Problem is Shinn never really has a vaild counterpoint for their actions in SEED.
Of course he doesn't. That's the point. No one ever says, "Shinn, your anger against Orb is so justified!"

>He's harboring violent irrational rage for over 2 years, for something that really could not be helped thanks to the political situation in Seed.
Yeah, that's the whole point. He's violent, irrational and doesn't think straight.

>>15275436
>I mean if they joined with EA they'd be throwing all their coordinator citizens including Shinn and his family to the group that wants them all dead.
I think any Coordinator with half a brain would have fled Orb by then, and they would have been too busy making Orb their base to care. Seeing as we didn't see the EA blasting the evacuee ships as they were leaving, they probably might not have been planning on making camps for Coordinators (just yet, at least)

Now we know the Meta-reason for this battle: This is Gundam, and there needs to be a fight with mobile suits
But in series, this is the heads of Orb deciding that they're going to fight a battle they all knew that they had no chance of winning because they have their honor and refuse to go down without a fight. Then as they're putting up their last resistance, all of the top ministers climb inside of the Mass Drivers as it explodes, letting their last hope escape into Space.

But the thing is; if that's what they wanted to do, then why battle? They could have just stalled enough to let the Archangel blast off into space and let them take them blame for it (since they're already renegades) What's the EA to do, get extra mad? This way, there's at least someone to facilitate the EA while they're around and not let the wrong people climb into power, like Jona's family.

Of course, Shinn doesn't know the struggle the main characters had during it, he was there for the part where hse ses Orb marching into battle, for seemingly just because they can despite earlier claims

What are they going to say to him, "fuck you kid, that was a sacrifice we had to make!"?

>>15276115
>Seeing as we didn't see the EA blasting the evacuee ships as they were leaving, they probably might not have been planning on making camps for Coordinators (just yet, at least)
I vaguely remember in the TV version of Seed they had the civvies evacuated like, days before the EA fleet made it to shore, but of course that got edited out of later editions so we could have Shinn angst.

>>15276115
>But the thing is; if that's what they wanted to do, then why battle? They could have just stalled enough to let the Archangel blast off into space and let them take them blame for it (since they're already renegades) What's the EA to do, get extra mad? This way, there's at least someone to facilitate the EA while they're around and not let the wrong people climb into power, like Jona's family.
Uzumi's government was stalling as hard as they could with that diplomacy stuff (which Azrael ignored) as it was.

And one of the EA's demands was the resignation of the current government, so while they could have potentially slipped back into power at a later date they wouldn't have stayed there during any occupation.

Not saying that 'WE HONORABUL ORB, WE FIGHT FOR OUR IDEALZ' was the smartest idea, but their hand was a bit more forced than that.

Ideally they should have at least blown the Mass Driver and Morgenreite before the invasion so the EA would have nothing they'd want from it anymore, but there's always the possibility that an extra mad EA with no troop losses might have decided to just sack the place altogether; both big sides of the war were in full war crimes mode by then.

>>15276096
>Of course he doesn't. That's the point. No one ever says, "Shinn, your anger against Orb is so justified!"

Shinn's initial anger against Orb is (somewhat) misplaced, but Orb's actions during Destiny itself legitimatizes his hatred.

>Orb attacks the Minerva, about five minutes after they safely return Cagalli
>Orb sides with the EA, despite the former's earlier claims of neutrality, and the latter's earlier invasion that led to Shinn's family dying in the first place
>Orb harbors a wanted war criminal, who later attacks the PLANTs directly, killing millions in a genocidal attack that would've made Azrael and Rau proud

To be fair, all of that shit happened under the Seirans. But:
a) Shinn doesn't know that, all he knows is 'fucking Orb are screwing me over again'.
b) even if he did, he would (rightfully) get mad at Cagalli for not having her shit in order (>>15263540), and letting the Seirans wield that kind of influence to begin with.

>>15204833
>If your not going to bother show how the character ends up like that, then it feels more like he's being written like how bad fanfiction writers write characters they don't like.

>>15202948

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>>15276126
They never really explain why the Asuka's were so late to run away. You would think they would be among the first people out of there.
>>15276131
To be fair, they were writing in a character whose history revolves around a sticky situation for the main characters for a equal they didn't plan for.

But the end result is this is what Shinn is seeing, and nobody bothers talking to him about it. It might not help much, but it would at least let him know it wasn't that easy of a decision.

That's the problem with this series, it says one thing, and it does another. Follow orders for Orb unconditionally, it's grr, muh duty. Follow orders from anyone else similarly, it's blind-attack-dogs-of-war, instead of treating Orb's situation as something that's awkward, everything is focused on the Seiran's being badguys.
Remember Jona's earlier apperances? Where he tells Cagaili "This country is not your toy!" Then he appears like a child playing a pretend war. Everything that Orb has done wrong and give Shinn any legitimate reason to still be angry at Orb is tossed on the Seiran's shoulders, and Orb gets off the hook scott free.

It would have really been the great time for a coup after Djibril is hiding in Orb and nobody is happy about it. But instead everyone sits around saying "grr, our duty says we can't do anything about it!"

>Ideally they should have at least blown the Mass Driver and Morgenreite before the invasion so the EA would have nothing they'd want from it anymore, but there's always the possibility that an extra mad EA with no troop losses might have decided to just sack the place altogether; both big sides of the war were in full war crimes mode by then.
That's where the idea of having the Archangel carry the blame for it comes from. The EA would be fucking furious, but it is plausible that they might have just marched in and occupied it instead of causing a ruckus.

>>15276157
>The EA would be fucking furious, but it is plausible that they might have just marched in and occupied it instead of causing a ruckus.
Maybe. This is post-JOSH-A and Gungnir; if there was a Geneva convention equivalent beforehand it's already gone out the window.

Plus Azrael is in charge and he might still be pissy about not having anything to show for dragging his new toys out to the middle of nowhere.

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>>15276134
>To be fair, all of that shit happened under the Seirans.
That doesn't make them really any less complacent. They literally stuck around with him up until the point where they could have ousted him, like when LOGOS is swiftly running out of power and pull on Earth

They waited until he relinquished power to Cagaili and have her give he order for his arrest for treason, instead of doing it themselves like once the Seirans were being shown to be LOGOS supporters.

So what, if Jona gave the order to launch the Destroy Gundams, they would have done it anyway?

I get the idea that that scene is supposed to make Cagaili look heroic, but when you put all the sloppy writing together along with the dropped plot threads, it just makes the entire second battle of Orb seem ridiculous. Orb defending Djibril isn't hyperbole, that's exactly what's happening. Cagaili doesn't think to do it until Kira kicks her off the battlefield because she isn't a match for Shinn and might have been killed.

>>15244499
his waifu is better than Kira's

>>15276214
I still reckon Shinn ultimately 'won' at the end of Destiny, largely because of this.

>Kira has to continue being a soldier, instead of chilling out on a beach, while random orphans and fucking Yzak spend more time with Lacus than he does.
>Athrun is separated from Meyrin, while being stuck with that spineless bitch tornado he doesn't really care for anymore. At least he has Mwu for company.
>Shinn keeps best girl, keeps his ace piloting job, presumably keeps his top-tier mobile suit, kept all of his friends on the Minerva except for Diet Rau, and is now friends with the only two guys who could potentially beat him in a fight.

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>>15276227
The series plays it off as everyone who's relevant as winning.

The problem is that the viewer doesn't win. My issue isn't that Shinn didn't win the fight at the end, my problem is that the series was not good.

After Orb battle, you could write Shinn out of the show, and it really wouldn't make a lick of difference. Why does he believe in the Destiny Plan? ???? No reason.
Does he have anything significant to say to Athrun? No
Does he put up a good fight against Athrun? Absolutely fucking not, the majority of the battle is shaped by stock footage in which he loses badly.

A good series isn't about who wins are loses. It's about "am I satisfied with what I watched, even if I'm not happy about what happens to several characters" I've seen shows that got cut early because of lost funding over malfunctioning heaters, and felt satisfied with the ending. I've seen series where the main character becomes crippled and lost memory, and you could argue it's the best thing that's happened to him since he got to Earth. I've seen series where the last remaining character alive is a fairy and I'm still satisfied.

The problem with GSD is besides the lost potential of the series, it ends so poorly and effortlessly, and literally every character on the new cast (except those Tri-Star ripoffs) is put up on the chopping block for the old cast to trounce, and they can't even throw the new cast a bone by having them make a dramatic final stand or anything.

The CE Universe ends on a note of "And the True King and Queen took the crown and peace was restored in all of Narnia!" because they couldn't think of any other way to end it.
What a travesty.

>>15276165

Considering Uzumi was already getting reports of both sides slaughtering each other, and had the AA crew as living proof EA would kill it's own people for not being racist enough, that's a pretty big maybe he'd have to be willing to take.

>>15276115
>What are they going to say to him, "fuck you kid, that was a sacrifice we had to make!"?

They probably should have. Saying "Sorry kid but in the process of saving the whole world and all of humainty we couldn't quite save your relatively insignificant family. Either tell us straight out you care more about your family than the survival of the human race or shut up" might have been cruel but it also might have been what Shinn needed to hear.

Instead Cagalli just cries as the thought of someone in the world not liking Orb or mindlessly parrots Uzumi's ideal speeches at him, which only serves to convince him further his family died because Orb is incompetent.

The worst part is Shinn actively worsens the situation in Orb by making Cagalli break from all his rage at her, to the point where she deliberately agrees to the EA treaty because she thinks Shinn would approve and actively goes to find him to seek his approval, which only makes him madder.

>>15278242
>The worst part is Shinn actively worsens the situation in Orb by making Cagalli break from all his rage at her, to the point where she deliberately agrees to the EA treaty because she thinks Shinn would approve and actively goes to find him to seek his approval, which only makes him madder.
How is that Shinn's fault? Last I checked, Cagalli was in charge of Orb, not Shinn.

>>15276257
0079
Dougram
Panzer World Galient
Votoms
Crusher Joe
Zeta Gundam
Gundam ZZ
Dirty Pair
Vifam?

What else, are these all related to YAS?

>>15279081
Or is it all Norio Shioyama?

>>15278242
>The worst part is Shinn actively worsens the situation in Orb by making Cagalli break from all his rage at her, to the point where she deliberately agrees to the EA treaty because she thinks Shinn would approve and actively goes to find him to seek his approval, which only makes him madder.
Are you seriously suggesting that what happened in Orb and them joining up with the EA is Shinn's fault?

Christ >>15253813 was right.

>>15279033
>>15279230

It's not completely Shinn's fault, or even mostly Shinn's fault, but he really didn't help. Arguably Cagalli might have have more backbone against Yuna if she wasn't constantly being berated by him early on.

Though really it's mostly Cagalli having to learn that she can't please everyone and can't force everyone in the world to love her father and country that's the problem, and she had ample reason to stand up for herself but didn't even when Shinn was going after her.

I need more seed memes

>>15210732
YOU'D HAVE TO BE PRETTY MESSED UP TO DISAGREE WITH LACUS-SAMA!

Is Shinn the most constantly asshurt gundam protagonist or is it still Domon?

You guys read into this so much. Of course Shinn isn't at fault but he pays a part in it. Hell we can even say it's Kira's fault too for not letting Genesis destroy the naturals in SEED. But of course that wouldn't sell. The reason why people don't like Shinn is because of the way he was portrayed in Destiny - many other posts have outlined this already.

Shinn is just an annoying loud mouth with a lot to say and nothing to show for it. Yeah he may be a pawn in ZAFT and an 'attack dog' of Gil's but if you think about it that's another point that pisses off people like me watching the darn series. He has his own views and opinions like every other damn character in any show but what does he do to fight for his beliefs? He doesn't he just follows Gil's orders. Hence why it pisses off viewers and diverts the whole Shinn vs Kira debate. Kira had a whole 48 episodes dedicated to himself which allows those who actually watched SEED to be slightly more biased towards him - if you say that you hate Kira after watching SEED before DESTINY shut your god damn yap of a mouth because you're not fooling anyone you wannabe 'edgelord'.

For me personally and probably a lot of people out there, the reason why we are biased towards Jesus Kira is due to the fact Kira acts on whatever belief he has, which is to stop the war. Yes the way he did it may be stupid to some and questionable to others but he fucking did something with what was given to him - like a MC.

Shinn on the other hand acted like an angry side character who had the power to do what he believed in. But the question is, what the hell did he believe in? At the end of the day, we fully know well that he questioned the Destiny Plan but all he did was follow orders. And that's why people have this hateful biased towards him. Plus Kira has and over shadowing fan base.

At the end of the day, the obvious answer is, Shinn has this hate because of the producers. And maybe that was their intention.

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>>15281771

>>15282721
Shinn is asshurt more constantly, but he's a protagonist for far less of a show. It's a toss-up.

>>15282305

Yeah but that's those 3.

Where did those guys even come from?

Where were they in Seed when Lacus's faction was actually the underdog and needed all the help they could get.

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>>15284579

Logically they were probably former ZAFT pilots that ended up becoming disillusioned after everything happened in SEED and joined her after the war.

>>15281771

>>15284645
>Nicol was 15!
Man I forgot about that

>>15284645
>third one down is shinn

Every time.

>>15285264
That's what happens when a Coordinator rages too hard, they turn into Shinn. I'm sure even a pissed off Lacus would turn into genderbent Shinn if she were angry enough.

>>15198274
Hitler did nothing wrong too.

>>15219903
Except Ultraman Dyna. He's based.

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>>15198274
>>15287749

>>15229724
Evil!Lacus is the best thing out of Seed.

>>15244499
SRW made him cool, and Arthun's biggest wingman.

>>15263540
But Shinn was right about Orb and Cagalli being useless in Destiny.

>>15288967

In the initial 13 episodes, during which almost all of Shinn's rage against Cagalli took place, none of that has happened yet. He's basically blaming her for her father's screw up and raging at her for daring to talk about Orb positively. His whole justification is basically he's mad there's people in the world that don't think Orb is a terrible scumhole, even when they'd basically saved the world last year.

After that in fact, by the time Orb actively allies with EA and starts attacking Minerva Shinn and Cagalli never directly speak to each other again. He shoots at her a few times it 28 without contacting her, and their brief battle in 42 has neither of them knowing they're fighting the other.

So effectively all his abuse against her is before she'd even done anything wrong beyond not hate her own father and country.

>>15290962
Would fug.

>>15290962
>that bulge

>>15291061
She's puffy.

>>15287777
Rustal

>>15282830
>Yeah he may be a pawn in ZAFT and an 'attack dog' of Gil's but if you think about it that's another point that pisses off people like me watching the darn series. He has his own views and opinions like every other damn character in any show but what does he do to fight for his beliefs? He doesn't he just follows Gil's orders.
This is probably a huge part of it, especially since pretty much every surviving character in Seed (and some that didn't, like Natarle at the end) directly defied orders or flat-out defected to make a stand, which is made a bit easier by both sides being retardedly evil, but it is what it is. You could almost call it a theme for the series, but that might be giving CE too much credit.

Shinn just... kept following orders and being led around by the nose by Rey and Gil, even when it led to him 'killing' a friend and fellow classmate, and I guess that Athrun guy too. when Athrun was in the same situation after the final Strike/Aegis duel it led to one of the series' most emotional moments and Athrun eventually getting tired of killing friends for the sake of 'duty'. Shinn just kept plodding along without thinking and stuck his dick in a girl whose sister they both thought he murdered. Classy.

>>15276200
>dat pic
Not gonna lie, no matter how little of a personality she had I'd still stick my dick in Lacus.

>>15297387
So would I.

>>15297387
>>15297644
>Take Lacus
>Give her huge jugs
>Suddenly 1000% better
Durandal was onto something with Meer.

28 episodes in and I kind of like Shinn and I'm expecting him to outgrow his misguided hatred towards Orb. Judging from the posts here though, I guess that's not happening and apparently Kira is about to take over as new MC.

He may have done nothing MORALLY wrong, but he did many things that were misguided at best and completely boneheaded at worst, and that's leaving out the whole "working for the bad guy" thing because Durandal also didn't do anything morally wrong.

Now SRW Shinn, he really did nothing wrong. Being out of the Fukuda Box made him truly shine.

remember me, the refugees which were escaping at the start of seed destiny and with which Shinn and his family were supposed to go with, they all died, right?

>>15298908
>I'm expecting him to outgrow his misguided hatred towards Orb.
never happens, Kira outright takes the spotlight from him as the good guy as soon as he gets the Strike Freedom
Shinn just gets more retarded all the way to FLAWLESS VICTORY where he gets shat on from fucking god himself and cries like a bitch for not being able to destroy Orb (?)
>>15299492
no, the civilians in the ships are never attacked, had his bitch sister not dropped her phone Shinn's family may have survived, may being the key word since the shockwave of the Calamaty vs Freedom beamfest would probably have still killed them

>>15298908
>I'm expecting him to outgrow
The show discards him as a character in the latter half.

>>15294232
In the first half. Shinn killed Earth Forces soldiers after witnessing them shooting at working civilians. He later destroys the work fences to have the civilians reunite with their families. He gets slapped for this afterwards, he's not always following orders and if not for Jesus Yamato, Shinn could have done more.

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>>15294232
A character died during the Impulse/Freedom fight. And despite popular belief that it was Kira who was supposed to have died or would have died, it wasn't him. No, it was Shinn Asuka that died in that explosion.

After that point, the character has absolutely no agency in the plot or in making his own decisions. And thanks to the magic of "retroactive writing!" we can just say that he's been running along doing what Rey's been telling him to do since the beginning! Rey helped him with the plan to take down Freedom, after all! He's been there whispering in Shinn's ear the entire time!

Didn't they meet in the academy? So has Rey been around Shinn this whole time just in order to use him? Or was Rey there just for the sake of scouting out pilots for Gilbert this entire time? So was he just pretending to be Shinn's friend this entire time? I'm pretty sure Coordinators aren't going to be defecting all that easily, does he really need to have a personal pilot cult, or just to keep his army happy enough to do what he says?

Old Shinn was always willing to do whatever he thought was right, consequences be damned, even if it meant he might have gotten shot. Even when he's mad about some stupid bullshit, his conscience usually gets the better of him. He gets into a stupid argument with Conille and starts to take her situation more seriously when he realizes she's like him. He sees Stella as a mentally inhibited girl that's being used by the Earth Alliance, instead of Just The Enemy

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>>15300125
All NEW shinn does is follow orders. But here's the thing, all he ever does after that is go out and pilot, and float around in space shooting guns at the targeting range. So it's kind of hard to single him out for being "used" when he isn't being used anymore else than anyone else in the series because he doesn't have any goddamn agency in the plot, but the only time he'll do anything is after these guys tell him to do something

Old Shinn would not put up with Rey telling his girlfriend off right in front of him because of business and would seek to include her into their shenanigans. NEW shinn just watches it happen.

Old Shinn wouldn't have tried to killed Athrun and Meryin right there on the spot without a chance to explain themselves, he would have captured the GOUF with his clearly superior mobile suit and given Athrun a chance to explain himself., and it's not like anyone would complain that he didn't do his job.
NEW shinn does it because Rey's telling him to do it, and well, it's what the Chairman wants, so that's that! (not to mention the plot convenience of having Athrun presumably die, and having people from Orb just so happen to be watching the entire time and send out a rescue boat!)

Jesus Christ. Watching it is one thing, but I can only imagine what it was like to have to get on board with a new Gundam series and watch your role as main character diminish into this trainwreck. They even started putting his name third in the credits instead of the first.

>>15300125
>>15300143
I think the worst part about this is the fact that it was intentional. Making Shinn from a decent guy to an antagonistic side character was all part of the plan to make Kira look good.

>>15300262
I can't see it as intentional. It looks like the result of a trainwreck.
Something like late scripts among other issues.

But until someone spills the beans, we'll never know for sure.

>>15300077
Athrun's reaction to Shinn during this scene bugged me.

>"I saved innocent civilans!"
>SLAP
>"Bad Shinn, always follow your orders!"

>"I shot down the Freedom!"
>PUNCH
>"Bad Shinn, think for yourself, don't always follow orders!"

in the star wars of gundam, shinn is darth malgus while jesus kira is valkorion

>>15300077
In the first half, yes. In the second he just becomes Gil's yes man

He pretty much develops backwards from every other major character in the series; where they start off loyal to their side or at least willing to follow orders to survive and end up breaking the rules to do what's right, Shinn starts off willing to defy orders if it means doing the right thing, but ends up as a mere pawn of ZAFT's chairman.

>>15198274
>obedient lapdog to darth durandal the space commie
>perpetually skips out on thinking for himself and just lets circumstance control him
>gets pissed about stella getting killed when it's entirely his fault she was in a place to get killed at all
sounds like he did plenty wrong.

>>15198289
>>15199548
reminder: 90% of GSD was written by a mashup of six random writers because morosawa was hospitalized. by that point fukuda's desires were irrelevant.

also reminder that fukuda wanted SEED to be a kill-em-all-tomino style ending (the kind tomino himself regrets writing) and morosawa stopped him.

>blaming fukuda for sunrise trying to salvage a sinking gundam series by demanding a return of a popular lead
c'mon now.

>>15201013
>literal space commie
>wants to turn the human race into an ant colony with him as godemperor
>not bad
gilbert you died, fuck off and stop posting.

>>15204833
he was recognisably unbalanced right along. if you couldn't see the fooling/manipulation going on where every time someone sensible called him out on being a retard, durandal or rey would push him back onto the retard path, you weren't paying attention.


also with all this talk about SRWZ, I'd like to point out: SRWL has basically the entire latter half of GSD's plot with shinn being a retard get averted because dearka has a chance to talk to shinn, and this gets him to stop percieving kira as this anonymous "freedom's pilot" monster.

The Only Sane Man to the rescue.

>>15209943
>>15210512
>>15210732
>>15212170
>>15237712
generally /m/ only skims shit and memes their ass off.
killer tomato regularly acknowledges he's not inherently right, but at the same time can't compromise on his beliefs.
people also like to forget that it's not like he stabbed providence in the cockpit and left it in front of genesis by accident.

>>15247351
>shit writing
well yes, but the proper answer is that she was suiciding for her sins RE: helping gil make kreuze #3. ROAD Calle

>>15301965
...why the fuck did my captcha input also end up in the post itself.

CHINK MOOOOOOOOOOOT

>>15301965
>people also like to forget that it's not like he stabbed providence in the cockpit and left it in front of genesis by accident.
Raw was a fucking maniac with a god complex and killed his girl, so Kira killing that guy was justified

>>15301965
>but at the same time can't compromise on his beliefs
What beliefs?

>>15300277

I think it was more, thanks to also having to prop up Kira because of the two casts fighting angle, by the end it had to be those two sides still because there wasn't enough time and budget to create another enemy for them to team up against. All the Gundam's were on team AA or team Minerva and no one could challenge them if they worked together. They wrote themselves into a corner where they had to keep up what they had or else there would be no action. And obviously the narrative would have to take Kira's side since they were the returning heroes of Seed and Durandal was set up to the be the bad guy.

It's like how in Geass once Suzaku started helping Lelouch towards the end, Kallen had to go join Schnizel otherwise there would be no tension in the final battle, or how when Ange learned the truth about the Dragons and teamed up with Salamandine half her squad joined Embryo for most of the rest of the show. The problem with the protagonist and antagonist teaming up is that once they do you need a threat to make it worthwhile and Destiny didn't have the time to do that.

>>15291067
nope, she has a soft hair

>>15300125
>>15300125
Come on, we've seen Shinn and Rey spend time together before and what Rey says does affect Shinn.

Is it hard to believe Shinn and Rey are genuine friends? That Rey genuinely believes he's doing what's best and wants his friend to be with him?

Why is so unbelievable that Stella's death had a huge negative impact on him? He's never the same after her death. But instead of attributing this to the logical explanation, ie the death of another loved one finaly breaking him, you guys are insistent on attributing to some vendetta Fukuda had or whatever.

Shinn does try to capture Athrun and Meyrin. He tries to convince them to surrender. But we literally see his breaking point. You can argue narrative convenience but the point is that after nearly 40 episodes, he finally snaps and this is clearly the intention with how the scene is shown.

>>15300262
I don't get this. Everyone says Fukuda and Morosawa loved Kira and Lacus and that they're their self-inserts but if that's the case, why wait until 15 or so episodes before Kira even does anything? They already knew about Kira's popularity from SEED so if that's all they were pandering to, he would have been the star from the beginning. I doubt Sunrise and Bandai would have objected to having one of the most popular characters star in the sequel.

Why is it so hard to believe that Shinn was never meant to be a 'good guy'. Argue the writing quality all you want but arguing the intent requires too much mental gymnastics.

>>15301129
Yeah that part was just weird.

>>15299521
Who the fuck chases after their phone on a fucking battlefield anyway?

>>15304620
It was just Shinn's big brother instincts kicking in.

>>15304628
Mommy should have just fucking smacked her daughter and told them to keep running to the shelter instead of having Shinn be the only survivor by trying to grab the phone.

>>15304646
Even if they hadn't stopped, they likely would have died anyway. The explosion was massive and the only reason Shinn survived was because he was in lower elevation level.

>>15303909
>I doubt Sunrise and Bandai would have objected to having one of the most popular characters star in the sequel.

Because they didn't want a sequel, they wanted another series. There's a difference. The big thing is the latter isn't going to be bogged down as heavily by the previous show's continuity, making it more accessible to new viewers. It would simply be another story set in the SEED universe, able to stand on it's own to attract new blood while still having the support of the fans of the first series.

> Why is it so hard to believe that Shinn was never meant to be a 'good guy'

Kenichi Suzumura, Shinn's VA, has long maintained that Shinn originally wasn't supposed to be the bad guy in interviews. When he got the job they laid down Shinn's character and growth, but that growth ultimately didn't occur as it was originally planned. He has pretty much stated that his character was derailed, a very serious accusation that could damage his relations with Sunrise and Bandai. Yet despite that he was brought in to perform for Build Fighters Try.

>>15305034
>Yet despite that he was brought in to perform for Build Fighters Try.
Probably because he's telling the truth

>>15305034
>SEED was massively succesful and extremely popular during its run
>Bandai: Don't make a sequel

Makes perfect sense, am I right?

>>15305694
Yeah it does, you just missed the point. If they created a direct sequel to SEED they run the risk of alienating new viewers. There is a very real fear of established continuity being offputting and daunting to the uninitiated, it's on of the reasons why we have AUs in the first place. But a new series set in the same universe, on the other hand, can potentially build upon the first show's success.

Not to mention that fans of the first series may not return for the sequel. Look at how many shows see a drop in sales and/or ratings following the first season.

>>15198274
What Shinn did wrong was he stopped being a clever fighter who studied and exploited his enemies' weaknesses and turned into a raging berserker who made rookie mistakes in battle.

>>15306462
So if Shinn had kept being smart and made the Destiny Plan come true, he would have been right?

>>15306504
If you win you're right.

>>15306462

He was almost always a raging Berserker.

Him studying up on Kira was a thing he only did once throughout the entire show for one battle.

Upon Kira's return he didn't even do it again, although admittedly he'd have a hard time studying on a suit that had just been made and had only fought twice so far anyway.

>>15306563
>He was almost always a raging Berserker.

Eh, the first time he used the "total rush with big sword" thing was against Kira himself in Angel Down. Afterwards that somehow became his main move. He yelled and such during battle, but he was never mindless like he became after getting the Destiny.

>>15303909
>Is it hard to believe Shinn and Rey are genuine friends? That Rey genuinely believes he's doing what's best and wants his friend to be with him?
Yes, because the show did a poor job of portraying that. Rey acts awfully controlling and manipulative during the second half of the show, and given his fixation on Gilbert and the latter's general shadiness it certainly gave the impression Rey was just using Shinn to achieve Gil's aims, and that 'helping Shinn because he's my friend' is a distant second at best.

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Bandai finally give Shinn a break by immortalising him with a smiling expression in his figurise bust.
Which is bullshit considering he spent most of the show looking angry, no other expression suits him better I think.

What's the name of the music that plays at the beginning of Shinn and Kira's battle in episode 34? I MUST KNOW! DAT VIOLIN GUYS!

>>15203333
But I love Kira-sama

>>15305034
I remember Suzumura did an interview in the SRW Tryout magazine where he said Z let him act Shinn the way he should've been.

http://web.archive.org/web/20090206040310/http://srw-tryout.jp/pdf/tryout04.pdf

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>>15303909
>But instead of attributing this to the logical explanation, ie the death of another loved one finaly breaking him, you guys are insistent on attributing to some vendetta Fukuda had or whatever.
Because when you're writing a show, book, comic, or some sort of narrative, when you want to show that a character has been deeply affected by an event or a tragic turn of events, you're actually supposed to show it on that character in some way.
I don't have to ask about how Miyuki's fate effects the plot and characters in Tekkaman Blade. For Shinn, it boggles the mind outside of "we don't care to write for the character anymre". You'll note that unless they're blasting hapless EA mobile suits, the Minerva crew floats around and does much of nothing instead of building their characters


How does Stella dying mean that he'd be willing to kill Athrun (and Meyrin)? We know he's mad about it, but that's why he came in fighting Freedom with all he had, and we saw that comes to a conclusion with Freedom's defeat but where does that connect to how much it's changed him into the non-character he becomes?

Shinn could have easily caught the GOUF and brought it back. What's Athrun going to do, jump out into the freezing water with Meryin? I don't think Gilbert and Rey would have any objections if he was captured alive. There isn't any tipping point into Shinn becoming ZAFT Attack Dog just other than it's something that just happens. It doesn't have to be DEEP. It just has to be THERE. I can see how say, Jerid ended up on the path he did, and finding himself more obsessed with power, ambition and Kamille. With Shinn, it's just something that happens.

Shinn being a fallen hero isn't a terrible idea. Not all main characters have to "win" The problem is that it's poorly planned out if at all, poorly executed and people constantly try to explain a bunch of nothing with retroactive writing.

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>>15301129
You know what, even with all that, I'd be willing to give that to Athrun. To be fair, Shinn came across that base completely by chance, and their lack of teamwork cost the lives of a the crew of TWO ZAFT subs (of course, nobody mentions them after they die).

The real problem is when Shinn goes to the brig, and Athrun shows up to preach to him about how he shouldn't be trying to save The Enemy, she's The Enemy and he shouldn't be doing that sort of shit, regardless of what kind of girl she is or not.

But then when Shinn wants to take down Freedom, KIRA'S NOT THE ENEMY, WHAT THE FUCK.

It's almost kind of offensive on how much of a hypocrite Athrun is

>>15306660
>>15303909
I can believe that Shinn and Rey are friends, because it's established at the beginning of the series. The problem is that that their relationship takes a drastic turn in the second half and Shinn, based on the point of the series he's being written for/actually cared about, would react differently to what Rey is doing. Lunameria's all Shinn has left in the world. Why would he, who openly spoke down to Cagaili in front of everyone, accept Rey talking down to his girlfriend? It's ridiculous.
>>15307389
Is there any chance of getting this thing translated and putting the rumor mill to rest? I'd pitch in for it.
>>15307107
Well, now that Suzuken's a really big seiyuu now, now Sunrise has to pretend like they gave a shit the whole time. I would have posted the picture they made for the Remaster, but I can't find it.

But the point is, if you hadn't seen the series before, you might be fooled into thinking that Shinn's the main character, but much like this one, it's a fucking LIE.

It's a cool picture though, but still.

>>15306600

>Eh, the first time he used the "total rush with big sword" thing was against Kira himself in Angel Down

What about the Orb fleet in episode 28? That was pretty much another rage berserker moment

>>15307107

Angry face is P-Bandai

>>15308683
>I don't think Gilbert and Rey would have any objections if he was captured alive.
Did you even watch the show? They want him dead. That's the whole point. The entire scene consists of Rey trying to convince Shinn that Athrun must be killed.

Also, we see Durandal's influence on Shinn plenty of times. Early in the series when Durandal first tells the Minerva crew about LOGOS, Shinn is completely captivated. He's fully buying into everything Durandal says. And then throughout the show, Durandal either gives Shinn a full pardon for things he should have been punished for or hands out medals and accolades (which are deserved but the purpose is to develop in Shinn, a loyalty to Durandal).

We also can either see or infer Shinn and Rey's close friendship. We know they've been together since the academy. We know they are bunk mates. We see that Rey is the only one who can always calm Shinn's temper. We see Rey immediately jump to help Shinn return Stella even though this arguably does not help Durandal which we know is all that really matters to Rey. We don't need a scene of them buttfucking each other to know they are good friends.

I don't know why people think this stuff isn't foreshadowed. It's all over the show but it seems most detractors haven't even watched the shit they complain about.

Once again, you can argue how well it was executed (and I would argue or was executed pretty well) but there is no doubting the intent. Things fit together nicely far too well for all this to just be a coincidence or be 'retroactive writing' or even just fans 'reading too much into it.' There is clear intent behind most of it. The only instance where I'd agree that things were clearly changed is Kira being significantly more screentime (and I'm taking just screentime, not what he actually does or how he's portrayed).

>>15308753
I wouldn't mind the shitshow that was destiny much if that's how the final battle went out.
But noo, instead we got flawless fucking victory with not even a single scratch on team Kira.
GSD 2nd half was nothing more than Kirawank, signified by the Strike Freedom replacing the Impulse on the title sequence.

>>15308753
>The real problem is when Shinn goes to the brig, and Athrun shows up to preach to him about how he shouldn't be trying to save The Enemy, she's The Enemy and he shouldn't be doing that sort of shit, regardless of what kind of girl she is or not.

Athrun does raise a good point during this conversation though that if Stella could be mentally reconditioned to fight against her will and was treated like an piece of equipment rather than a person why exactly would Shinn think they wouldn't just do it to her again.

Which is exactly what happens.

>>15209943
>>15210512
>>15210732
>>15212170
>>15237712
>>15301965
Here's another instance: In episode 30 of GSD, Kira says
>And even us. Because we keep fighting. Maybe we're just as much to blame.

>>15309066
Yes, they want him dead.
If Athrun is brought in alive, they can kill him anyway.

>>15310114
No, they don't just want him dead, they want Shinn to do it. What's so hard to understand about that? Capturing him is pis easy. They want Shinn to do the deed.

>>15310161
>Capturing him is pis easy. They want Shinn to do the deed.
Except for where Durandal sent the MPs after him and they fucked it up. Of course, this is the same group of people who can't even assassinate two people in a house out in the middle of nowhere.

>>15301965
>wants to turn the human race into an ant colony with him as godemperor
But he wants the exact opposite, he said that someone like Kira would be the leader, the ultimate being should lead, not him

While the plan is indeed retarded I never saw it as a evil thing, just as a stupidly idealistic thing

>>15210732
They may talk all they want about their doubts but they still do their stupid shit and talk down anyone who disagrees with them or just stay by the sides as Zaft is fucked over by EA again and again only to appear when they try to fuck EA over

>>15279289
Nigger, she is a fucking politician, its part of her job to hear the absolutely vicious hatred of the population at large has of her actions, no politician exists that has a 100% approval rating, there will always be people who hate their guts, saying they governed bad because people kept saying bad things to them is fucking retarded

Shinn has literaly no fault at whatever stupid decision Cagalli made, thats all on her

>>15310901
>Nigger
>>>/pol/
>she is a fucking politician, its part of her job to hear the absolutely vicious hatred of the population at large has of her actions
Except all of Shinn's verbal diarrhea was about Orb during Uzumi's reign, who despite some terminally stupid decisions at least tried to keep his retarded little country from being ravaged.

And you know, tried to save the world and all that shit.

>>15311353

Pretty much.

Just because Cagalli did turn out to be incompetent 20 episodes later doesn't retroactively justify Shinn's earlier completely off topic hate that had nothing to do with anything Cagalli personally had done yet. He just wanted to go "Rah I hate Orb" at someone from Orb. He didn't even say he figured she'd be terrible for the country or anything either. It was all bitching about Uzumi.

Ironically by the time Cagalli actually does do something Shinn can rightly get angry with her for, Shinn never knowingly interacts or speaks to her again.

>>15307345

Kantai Shiki
you're welcome

>>15308753
>Why would he, who openly spoke down to Cagaili in front of everyone, accept Rey talking down to his girlfriend? It's ridiculous.
Shinn always listens to Rey. That's been present throughout the series. Whenever Shinn gets angry, all Rey has to do is say "That's enough Shinn" and Shinn pretty much immediately stops. We see this happen several times. So yeah, it's perfectly reasonable (and also established early on) that Rey will always get the final word and Shinn won't object.

>>15311657
Actually, it does, because they're doing the same exact shit he was complaining about in the first place.

>>15311891

No they weren't. He was bitching about them picking a fight with the EA he knew they couldn't win at the expense of their citizens.

Later on, well after Cagalli had left the ship, Orb does the exact opposite in siding with the EA for the sake of making peace with them for their citizen (or at least that's their stated explaination, secretly the Serians just wanted to reap the benefits of Logos).

That's not the exact same shit, thats the exact opposite shit. The only thing the same is that it personally makes Shinn's life difficult in both cases because Shinn is in two totally different spots.

>>15314348

Lol I posted that pic here a while ago I actually made that in photoshop with the fancy border and all. It's cool another anon saved it

>>15314348
>Some of you guys are alright, don't go to Genesis tomorrow

>>15198274
for the archives, gundam seed destiny thread
god damn if those OPs and EDs aren't amazing

File: k.jpg (130KB, 518x389px) Image search: [Google]

130KB, 518x389px

Shinn is always a cool guy in SRW. I loathe SEED Destiny but I never bench him

File: Mark Destiny.png (2MB, 1640x1530px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1640x1530px

>>15317699

>>15317699
poor quality

>>15318298
Well yes, it's a bit hard for me to take a pic from a real DS.

>>15317699
>The Three Shinns

>>15303909
>why wait until 15 or so episodes before Kira even does anything?
>>15309705
>>15210732
>>15210512
>>15237712

I'd say Kira became the hero as early as Berlin (drawing all of Stella's attacks towards himself, and eventually taking it out while Shinn was freaking out).

HOWEVER, this leads to a tangential question: What does Kira actually accomplish in battle prior to that, particularly in terms of preventing/reducing war?

To my recollection:
>Gets back in the fucking robot, wards off totally-not-sent-by-Durandal assassins
>Abducts Cagalli
>Takes out Minerva's cannon, when it was firing in self-defense, then disables mobile suits on both sides
>Disables mobile suits on both sides again, and takes out Athrun
Obviously he can't just sit there and let himself and others die, so (1) has to happen.
(2) gives the Seirans complete control of Orb. They join the EA, which leads into the situations that cause (3) and (4). To be fair to Kira, he doesn't know the political situation in Orb is so fucked up.
(3) and (4) make sense, but you really get the impression they were written specifically to make Shinn (and the Minerva in general) dislike Kira well before Stella dies.

>>15321379
>What does Kira actually accomplish in battle prior to that, particularly in terms of preventing/reducing war?

He does prevent the sea battle from turning into a one sided slaughter by stopping Minerva from simply wiping the whole fleet out with it's cannon.

Whether this is considered a good thing or not is debatable, since the majority of people seem to hate Orb and Heine died of a result, and most people would rather have Heine over thousands of faceless Orb and EA crewmen, and that's not counting the fact that things would have arguably worked out better for them if they'd just let Yuna die there and remove him from the equation, even if all those soldiers had to die with him.

However in terms of pure statistics less people died as a result of Kira's intervention than would have if he hadn't shown up.

Also

>(2) gives the Seirans complete control of Orb.

They already had control, and basically strong armed Cagalli into following them. She could have tried to resist a little longer but the Seiran's had more influence at the moment, and Kira actually prevented them from just locking her away forever as Yuna's trophy wife while they handed the whole country to Djbril.

The only solution would have been to start a civil war and it's unlikely Cagalli would have had the spine to kill her own people over a power struggle.

>>15317522
based

>>15317743
cute

>>15324882
>hey sorry I killed your sister
>it's cool, she'll totally turn up alive in a few eps. wanna bang?

>>15327897

And yet that entire battle was pointless. All Shinn managed to do was destroy a machine that was about to be replaced soon anyway. He sidelined Kira when he was already on his way back to Orb and wouldn't have interfered in any Zaft operations anytime soon anyway.

All that did was make it so that Kira had borrow Strike Rouge to go get SF instead of just using the old Freedom. Shinn failed to defeat Kira when it actually mattered.

>>15327919
Pro-Shinn view: Shinn and Durandal don't know that Lacus can pull the Strike Freedom out of her ass.
Pro-Kira view: Kira needs to lose to Shinn once, to justify the latter as a threat. Of course, all the boring shithouse fights at the end of series make Shinn look non-threatening anyway.

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>>15327897

>>15327919
>And yet that entire battle was pointless. All Shinn managed to do was destroy a machine that was about to be replaced soon anyway.
Well, let's put apart the fact that Freedom would have still been a pretty keen asset for them to have, even with it's upgrade on the way.
But let's look at the more important aspect: Kira could have very well fucking DIED. Is that pointless?

The fact that the series itself tries to play it off that he just wasn't trying his best is ridiculous.

>>15328067
>The fact that the series itself tries to play it off that he just wasn't trying his best is ridiculous.
Really? That just makes Kira look really stupid.
I thought he only lost because he specifically refuse to aim for Impulse's cockpit, and Shinn abused that, along with memorizing the combat data and tons of simulations, to overcome Freedom's superior performance.

>>15328133
There's a 20 minute rant on YouTube about it, if you're interested.

>>15325011
Purest form of love.

>>15328162
I'm not falling for /m/'s version of rickrolling.

>>15327985
>>15328025
>I got 99 problems, but Freedom ain't one.

>>15328133
>>15328241
https://youtu.be/EcWHKT8eH8s

>>15328133
On one of the latter episodes, Kira and Athrun are talking, and Athrun says that he was surprised that he had gotten taken down by Shinn, and then Kira says something along the lines, that he wasn't sure if the pilot of the Impulse was his enemy or not, so he didn't try to fight as hard.