What about Macross that sets it apart from other mecha franchises?

the mix of music, interstellar sci-fi, and love triangles

>>15175831
>What about Macross that sets it apart from other mecha franchises?

From a general point of view nothing. It's as formulaic as any other long standing mecha franchises.

You can identify in Macross 4 recurrent elements

- the love triangle
- the titular Macross battleship
- the trasformable airplanes
- the music career of one of the protagonists

Rinse and repeat.

>>15175831
It came up with transformations (Zeta or Transformers both copy Macross' ideas).
It is basically "mecha musical" which is pretty unique in the genre.

>>15175831

Not really a whole lot of anything

maybe the pop music but being frank the only good song was Do You Remember Love and that was in the movie

>>15175831
Idols have magic power.

>>15175831
You've already got two posts saying "not much," and you'll probably get a dozen and a half more before this thread 404s, but here's the thing every one of those anons are completely forgetting:

SDF Macross came out in 1982, it was one of the pioneers of the "real robot" side of the genre. Most of those things that "other shows do as well" it was one of the first, if not THE first, show to do.

>>15175845
fix your shitposting

-The main protagonist (MC)is always a male character (pilot).
-Two heroines
-The love triangle amongst the main protagonist [(MC) - (male character)] and the two heroines.
- The music in the life of one or both heroines (note: Basara, the Macros 7 protagonist is the only exception that doesn't follow this rule)

>The ''music career''
Not all music heroines are ''music idol''.

hey retard, Rinse and repeat.

>>15175893
>It came up with transformations

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07iM9PT-buE

>>15175831
It was TopGun but in Anime Spaaaaace. The music was a plot device. Then for some retarded reasons, the music became the defining quality in later iterations. The original Macross was popular because it captured the '80's sensibilities perfectly. Now it's just magical singing girls bullshit.

>>15175831
missiles
dog fight
gearwalk

>>15175831

A lot of people will tell you that what makes a Macross show is the planes transforming into robots, music, and love triangles.

This is all technically true, but its surface level shit. To get to the real meat of Macross, you have to go deeper.

What sets Macross apart from other mecha franchises is that in Macross almost nothing is ever actually solved by violence, mecha or otherwise. Military victories in macross are only ever stalling tactics. The giant robot fights are only to keep you from getting steamrolled and to buy time until you can solve the actual problem through other means, usually through communication and culture.

In SDF, the military victory gets us practically nothing. The cultural victory is what saves humanity, and the show has no compunctions about showing us that even though the wr is won everything isn't magically happy ever after, rebuilding Earth is a hell of a job and not all of the Zentradi are happy to play home maker.

In Macross 7, the problem is solved by Basara teaching song to the protodevlin and fixing the resource issue that causes the Protodevlin to attack in the first place, so they drop everything and leave because they don't give a shit what happens to us anymore and have no reason to stick around.

In Macross Zero, the nukes don't stop the Birdman. Shin gets through to Sara, and convinces her to stop it.

In Macross Frontier, military victory stops Graces plans of enslavement, but its communication and understanding with the Vajra , reconciling the differences between their hive mind and our individualistic setup, that ends the larger conflict.

The only two cases in Macross where culture and communication don't win the day are Plus and Delta. Plus, because Sharon was a solitary actor and an inane computer.

Delta... honestly Delta's just a case of bad writing. Culture doesn't solve the larger issue because the show ends with nothing resolved by anything.

>>15176396

tldr: Gundam proclaims that the secret to peace is UNDERSTANDING, and then showcases how right it is by proving their point with murdering the other side until they relent. Which makes their UNDERSTANDING hamfisted and stupid.
Macross wars only involve shooting at each other until Earth figures out how to apply UNDERSTANDING to this new enemy, and then they do it and it actually solves problems. Which makes their UNDERSTANDING feel genuine because they actually put the work into it and practice what they preach.

>>15176404
So it's Mecha for hippies.

>>15176404
The thing about Gundam is that UNDERSTANDING just never fucking works. And that murdering the other side is still the best course of action.

>>15176422

I dunno about that. Just grinding your opponent into the dirt generally doesn't work out as well IRL as it does in fiction

Most wars in history ended on some form of diplomacy, not sheer military power obliterating the other side into nothing so they never matter again like most mecha shows.

For all its stupidity, Macross shows a better understanding of War than Gundam ever has.

>>15176012
Take the stick out of your autistic ass.

>Two heroines

Both Plus and 7 deviated from this.

>The love triangle amongst the main protagonist [(MC) - (male character)] and the two heroines

Again, Plus and 7.

Now go back to your /a/utism board.

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Is there a chart of macross titles, like that gundam one? I downloaded 83 TV but now I saw there are compilation movies. Maybe I should watch them instead?

Origin of the itano circus, cool jets and way too much focus on singers.

>>15176722
the movie "Do You Remember Love" is loosely based on the first tv series, but it's not a replacement
it's literally watching Pearl Harbor instead of a long (and sometimes low-budget) documentary series about WWII

It has a stupid focus on pop songs that ruins the entire thing.

>>15176778
>comparing DYRL to the dogshit Pearl Harbor

baka

What order should this series be watched in?

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>>15177407
As always, production order is the best order.

>>15177420
Should I watch all the movies and OVAs as well?

>>15177429
Hell yeah. Do You Remember Love? is beautifully animated.

>>15176404
Gundam seems more in line with real-life wars. 'Understanding' kind of works with individuals, but as long as all factions in a conflict think they have enough power to win, the fighting continues.

You should be watching it in US import order and the Sentinels movie at the end.

The imports provide a coherent story and tie up the loose ends in the final movie compared to the ramblings of the supposedly superior originals.

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>>15177478
Show me where the SDF-2 is in the footage of the final battle.

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>>15175831

>>15177478
AND WE

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>>15177514
>gif

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>>15175831
I thought the books were a pretty good fleshing out of Robotech.
Their explanation of the Zentradi was 10/10 Bretai gud :DDD

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>>15177556
>Robotech

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>>15177551

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Whenever I try to watch Delta, I get the same feeling I get when trying to watch the Star Wars prequels. It just feels so wrong, and I can't continue. Is there something wrong with me?

>>15177572
Do they still laugh knowing that their franchise is dead?

>>15177559
The books are the best way to get the Robotech version. Everything else is ass.

>>15177580
That's all they have left.

>>15177569

Delta shits harder on Macross than the prequels ever did to Star Wars.

>>15176404
It's more of a case of the protagonist and his immediate circle apply understanding to the enemy. The UN Spacey is consistently portrayed as a bunch of trigger happy goons eager to let loose a salvo of dimensional bombs

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Apparently BreraxRanka is a thing now and they aren't blood related. Ranka dropped the oniichan-chan for Brera-sama.

>>15177569
Don't worry anon, nobody liked Delta.

Emphasis in love, music, and fighter jets. These are things I love about anime so Macross to me was a match made in heaven. It's a shame that i each and every single entry in the series, one element is weaker than the others. Delta, Plus, and 7 are unbelievably guilty of this.

>>15177589
Robotech is ass. I'd rather watch 7 and Delta than that generic shit.

F, 7 and Delta are foggot tier

>>15177475

Depends why they are fighting in the first place. If the source of the conflict was political in nature to begin with, ending the fight with diplomacy isn't uncommon since its all for satisfying ego anyways.

Gundam conflicts are almost always wars of total extermination and domination so they can play up the villain faction as being as strong and evil as possible, because Gundam doesn't into subtlety. This is actually pretty rare in human history, most wars were fought over relatively small patches of land. Even WW1 wasn't fought for very much to gain, it was basically a bunch of little conflicts that spiraled way out of control because people had yet to grasp how much war technology had advanced and how much war had changed.

Only WW2 really had the 'we're taking over EVERYTHING' vibe, and its a perfect example of why those wars don't work: The fascists spread much to widely and much too quickly creating too many enemies and forcing themselves into a multi-fronted war against multiple powers for control of territory they hadn't the time to consolidate power in. Even if America had stayed home, Russia was all set up to steamroll both Germany and Japan in the last years of the war for this exact reason.

A faction like Zeon being in a position to attack and win against the entire planet Earth, as well as significant space holdings, makes the One Year War totally irrelevant. Any faction with the resources and manpower for that kind of operation to have a decent chance of success doesn't need Earth for anything anymore anyway. Its already more prosperous than any civilization in human history by orders of magnitude.

>>15177569
Depends on your favorite Macross shows. If you were expecting anything like SDF or Frontier then yeah it would bother you. Delta was trying to do something different and it bothers you because it's not the same.

why the fuck are there so many missing VF numbers? what happened from VF-4 to VF-9 or why is there no VF-20

>>15187517
Kawamori based the designation system off of the American system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1962_United_States_Tri-Service_aircraft_designation_system

>>15187523
seems like a strange way of doing things but I don't know what I'm talking about so I won't question it.

>>15177600
At least RoTS had meme value, Delta is just shit.

>>15187546
Delta had Junna and the Draken and VF-31

>>15187552
Which is nothing compared to sheevposting.

Anyone know the name of the track that plays in the first seconds of this video before "The Target" plays?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HBtMlCkpbfw

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWX8IVfGsIQ

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Alto

> robotech > macross

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The valkyries are the king of the "realistic" mechs. They're the perfect balance of coolness and technical feasibility. At least up to and including the vf-22 imo.

Sure the specs would obviously be far lower but with a trillion dollars one could probably build a somewhat functional vf-1 able to walk, change modes, fly etc.

>>15191355
>Sure the specs would obviously be far lower but with a trillion dollars one could probably build a somewhat functional vf-1 able to walk, change modes, fly etc.
Absolutely not.
VF's require the invention of materials and power sources far beyond us at the moment.
In the series itself humanity just scavenged materials off of a fallen starship built by a precursor alien race that genetically engineered them.

What's you guys' opinion on Macross Zero? I've never seen it for fear of it sucking.

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>>15191363
The later episodes CG animation has aged incredibly well.
The VF-0 and SV-51 are sexy as fuck.

The music sucks ass, and Shin is a non-character.

>>15191357
>Absolutely not.

There's nothing in the physical shape of a vf-1 that can't be done with our current tech it would just be really weak and the airspeed would need to be very low during mode changes.

There's nothing to stop the plane mode from flying, albeit with worse performance than a conventional jet and there's nothing preventing a 13 meter tall mech than can walk and do other light activities.

Like I said it would be weak and slow but it's definitely possible.

>>15191366
>Shin is a non-character
Isn't he the main character? WTF

>>15191367
Just stop posting and go read a book on aerodynamics.

Our current materials technology cannot make a jet that can fly and then switch into a bipedal mecha.

>>15191374
Of course we can do it. Standing the aircraft vertically at near zero airspeed and adjusting the vector as the center of gravity shifts during the mode change is not a tall order.

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>>15191363
>I've never seen it for fear of it sucking.

I was in this boat for quite some time too, but I decided to give it a go being desperate for more Macross and knowing it couldn't be any worse than Delta.

I can safely say it is the last worthwhile thing Kawamori has ever made.

The difference between it and Frontier alone is pretty staggering, even if it is somewhat missed potential. It is a genuine product of passion, rather than a cheap checkbox of cashgrabbing anime cliches and for that, it stands as one of the better Macross entries to me.

>>15191363
It's not great but it's short so watch it for the vf-0d and sv-51

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>>15191374
>Our current materials technology cannot make a jet that can fly and then switch into a bipedal mecha.

We can, its just that it has to slow down to a standstill.

>>15191366
What sort of VF-0 variant is that?
It doesn't have the D's two seater canopy.

>>15191518
VF-0C

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>>15191499
>Implying that's a Valkyrie

What's the best VF-1 toy that can be had for under $100? I wanna yamato/arcadia but can't justify spending $400

>>15191856

I managed to get a Yamato 30th Anniversary 1/60 VF-1A off Ebay for $99 once, brand new from Japan. You have to be really lucky with the timing...
The only other option you got now is to get the Hi Metal Bandai ones that are tiny compared to the 1/60s and do not have perfect transformation.

>>15191433
This post reeks of hipster.

>>15191856
Outside of Japan? Good luck. Your best bet is probably what >>15191865 said and pray you get lucky on eBay.

If you were in Japan, you can easily pick up Chogokins for less than $100 on Yahoo Auctions. I got a Chogokin VF-25F w/Tornado Pack and VF-25S Armored pack for less than $100 each.

>>15175831
Only seen the original and DYRL so far but I like the way that culture is used as a weapon. When I heard about idols being used to defeat aliens I thought it sounded pretty dumb but I like how they did it.

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>>15191856
>good vf-1 toy
>under $100

Before yamato went bankrupt the less popular vf-1 toys were like $60

How times have changed

Freyja Ranka love

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>>15192398

Fake? http://www.animemaru.com/macross-creators-to-launch-idol-into-space-for-35th-anniversary/

WILL YOU LOVE ME TOMORROW...

Here's what irks me about how SDF Macross: Where was the show originally supposed to end before production spiraled out of control due to the lack of funds, which would have ended the show right into episode 27, but didn't because Tatsunoko got some last-minute funding, hence why the show ended after 35?

>>15192676

As I understand it, they were originally planning on a much more traditional route where they end the space war in a big finale, and then have like half an episode after that of wrap up to show where everyone went with their lives.

They ran out of cash, so they rushed into ending space war one early. But once they were already committed to that, they got a bunch of money unexpectedly and had to come up with another 7 episodes of content, with space war one already in the bag.

This is why the love triangle gets so dumb in those 7 episodes. Hikaru was supposed to resolve that shit in less than an episode, not over the course of seven of them.

I think that showing the aftermath of the war like they did was ultimately a good thing for the show, it helps make SDF so distinctive because it doesn't end when the action does. But they really needed to handle the character arcs in those last episodes better, as opposed to just dragging it out.

>>15191363
The dogfights are amazing, animation is excellent, the setting is neat, and the CG aged pretty well. Problem is the songs are forgettable, soundtrack is hit or miss, the story is all over the place, villains are never given any focus, and nearly every character is unlikeable except for Roy.

>>15193237
>not liking based edgar

>>15193394
>nearly every character
I don't particularly like Edgar but he's not unlikeable either.

>>15193394

AMERICAN BURGER.

>>15192890
From what I heard, the original plan was to have Hikaru not end up with anyone in the end but they quickly had a cliffhanger ending.

The thing that pisses me off the most about Macross is how afraid they are to bring back old characters. Sure Hikaru's VA is gone but new VAs for old characters isn't new to anime. I also know we got Max and Milia in 7 but.....well 7 fucking sucked. I also hate how despite the fact they pretty much set up future conflicts with Zentradi by telling us there are more out there, they just go on to give us new villains and absolutely NONE of them are as memorable as the giants.

>>15193491

See, I actually like that Macross moves on. It would have been SO FUCKING EASY for them to just keep following the same characters and/or just have them fight zentradi over and over again. The Gundam thing of every new UC series being "Yeah, but what is CHAR up to???" and "Oh boy, ZEON again!"

Instead, they did new stuff instead of dipping in the same well over and over again. Not all of them were good, but at least they tried.

>>15193507
This makes me concerned about what they'll do for the upcoming anniversary one; surely, they wouldn't do humans again after the Windies soured everyone with their allahu ackbar.

>>15193507
But Char was only a villain for 0079 and CCA. You can count Unicorn if you like but they were all better than whatever Macross ever offered. Hell, Char and Amuro's rivalry is one of the best parts of the UC. Macross doesn't even have this. Hikaru had Quamzin for an episode or two but it's barebones conpared to UC Gundam.

>Not all of them were good, but at least they tried.
But none of them were good. UC Gundam deviated from Zeon once with the Titans and even they are better than space devil, flying rocks, space bugs, and space fags.

>ITT: shitty opinions

Thank fuck Japs don't make anime to cater to shitty western audiences.

>>15193507
Macross hasn't gone back to Zentradi since that OVA episode of 7. Would it really hurt to go back to giant humanoids with giant humanoid mechs? Who doesn't want an updated Nousjadeul or Queadluun?

>>15176396
>>15176404
But seeing as how the UNDERSTANDING is always achieved by literal magic, the message is worthless to the real world audience. Sing at ISIS. Try to UNDERSTAND them. Let me know how it goes.

>>15193553

We got it briefly in both Frontier and Delta. Zentradi rebellion and var'd zentradi in regults.

>>15193572
But they weren't the focus in either of them and we didn't see much of them to begin with. In Frontier, Klan and those other two are the only fighting zentran in the entire show. We got more in Delta but they only appeared in like 2 episodes while the rest had the big bad NUNS guys as var victims. I'd like to see them as the main villains again equipped with sexy new mecha suits.

>>15193592
Oh wait I forgot the rebels in the Seikan Hikou episode but again, not the main focus, just short and sweet fan service that could work for a new show. Not all Zentran are vulnerable to music so that makes a neat set up.

>>15193569
>But seeing as how the UNDERSTANDING is always achieved by literal magic, the message is worthless to the real world audience. Sing at ISIS. Try to UNDERSTAND them. Let me know how it goes.
It actually reflects the average Japanese person's really naive worldview rather well.
Seriously, not having any real involvement in a major war since WWII and spending generations drilling into kids peace and understanding fixes everything and you get a country of people who think middle east hotzones sound like a great vacation spots and groups like ISIS are just a small band of misunderstood misfits.

>>15193569
Macross has fanatical terrorist groups who don't need no UNDERSTANDING either, they're just confined to the side material.

Macross is unique in that it showcases soft power as the super weapon, which is applicable to the Japanese since that's basically what the US did to them.
Slapped them with a one two punch of military might then sat them down and drilled American pop culture into them.


of course no one should take geopolitical lessons from a fucking cartoon in the first place, so I'm not seeing the big deal here.

>>15193650
Can we take some lessons at least? I'd be happier with the shithole the world is right now if there were some Valkyries flying around, or at least an Anf.