In some parallel universe, we would have gotten a show about

>>15160493
About what Char standing on a weird ass gundam? Because that's all it looks like.

Looks like we dodged a bullet then.

>>15160519
>Char standing on a weird ass gundam
FROM THE STUDIO THAT BROUGHT YOU
MECHA LOOKING AT ITS OWN SHADOW

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>>15160493
>we could have gotten an actual sequel to 0079 and Zeta that paved the way for a more developed Char's Counterattack
>instead we got this

>>15160873
I regret nothing.

>>15160493
I want off of this timeline, give me my Gundam CC

>>15160541
And now try to sing it with Oldfield's music

>>15160493
>Sayla finally realized that her brother is right
>they get a red zeta-like Gundam
>and successfully make humanity evolve into newtypes

>>15160981

Char's plan and thinking on it was living in space would eventually do it. He was wrong. People have been living in space with millenia as of both Turn-A and G-Reco, and there was no newtypes in Turn-A and only a handful in G-Reco. Nothing he is likely to do is ever going to result in evolving the majority.

>>15160873
>>we could have gotten an actual sequel to 0079 and Zeta that paved the way for a more developed Char's Counterattack
>instead we got this

Oh for pete's sake just fuck off.

>>15160996
Don't forget about After War X

>>15160996
>>15161003
All of those societies are post-apocalyptic. After years of devastating war, you see a society that has only managed to stabilize because tech has either completely regressed or kept stagnant. it may seem relatively comfy to regular UC, but they are just showing you the slow collapse of Oldtype civilization. Meanwhile Judau Ashta and his ship of Newtypes manage to go colonize beyond the Earth Sphere in that Victory Gundam Side Story.

>>15160996
>>15161003
>>15161065
so...char and full frontal were 100% right then? all the drivel about possibility and hope and understanding was just that, human didn't change and the only people that got the benefits were those that went "wow this is all fucked, let's leave"

>>15161065

The people on Earth are living in a post-apocalypse in both shows. The people in space have been living there with thousands of years and experienced no apocalypse. The Victory side story manga is also pretty explicitly non-canon given that it's connected to the Gigantis manga about Amuro and Judau fighting in Mega Zeta against Ideon with Mineva's help.

>>15161065

Char and Full Frontal wanted to move people in to space because it'd evolve humanity, and in both Turn-A and G-Reco the humans that had been living in space with millenia were no better off and just wanted to live on Earth again. So no, they were quite definitely incorrect about moving people to space doing any good at all.

>>15160997
>Double Zeta apologists crying this hard

Look I'll be the first to admit the average fan hate reaction to ZZ is a gross overreaction but it has it's problems and if Tomino had been left alone to do his work it could've been much more interesting.

>>15161087
even if they were wrong about newtype evolution moving everyone into space seems to have been the right move. in late UC works the federation slowly dies off just creating more and more conflict until we get to turn A.

if people forgot about earth maybe they would have taken generation ships to other systems or something instead of spending hundreds of years never getting past jupiter.

>>15161099

The people who did move in to space always stagnated and never did anything though, with some portion of their populace wanting to move back to Earth because living in space sucks. It wasn't because of constant wars with Earth that they never did anything, it was because they just didn't do that stuff. Forgetting about Earth wouldn't make it magically happen. So no, I don't think it was the right move at all personally.

>>15161107
i feel like they "didn't do that stuff" simply because the plot of the shows were never intended to go in that direction. moving into space IS the correct move though (for a few generations at least) because Earth was being polluted in the UC timeline and it would have been rendered uninhabitable if a billion+ people remained on it.

>>15161122

You might as well say the plot of the shows demanded conflict between Earth and Space so nothing any of them did would make any difference. Moving in to space isn't the correct move because it demonstrably never did any good for whenever it happened, and in the end the Spacenoids just became elitist towards the Earthnoids and started yet more shit with them, rather than starting shit because they felt downtrodden like in classic UC.

>>15161099
>in late UC works the federation slowly dies off
>just creating more and more conflict
You got that backwards; the Feds were slowly grinding to a halt due to having to suffer through genocidal spacenoid uprisings every 2-5 years.

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>>15161128
Well at least you said FELT downtrodden instead of WERE downtrodden.

>>15161128
>>15161145
>>15161154
ok, that's pretty much correct but spacenoids had no true representation in the feddie government. they couldn't appoint members to the central assembly IIRC.

so there was definitely some inequality but power-hungry factions just used that for their own purposes. spacenoids probably should have realized that tossing colonies and asteroids at earth wasn't the answer after like 3rd go-round though...

I like ZZ. It's got its problems, but it's also entertaining. But by no measure does it really fit into the MSG/Zeta/CCA storyline. I wish had gotten >>15160493 and then ZZ later as a stand alone story set in the UC.

>>15161145
After Unicorn and before the late UC stuff there is a good 20 - 25 years of peace. The Federation still does not give a shit about Spacenoids, when F91 happens all the top Feddie officials are on vacation on Earth and tell the colonies to deal with it themselves. Doesn't exactly engender good feelings so it makes sense they constantly start uprisings after that point again.

I don't know why Spacenoids always have to commit genocide though, they really should address that.

>>15160493

>Char custom Psycho Mk II

Why would I want that

>>15161175
>spacenoids probably should have realized that tossing colonies and asteroids at earth wasn't the answer after like 3rd go-round though

and you'd think communists would have figured out a "dictatorship of the proletariat" was a pipe dream after the like fifth country they tried it started putting people in camps again

but people are stupid and walk in circles

>>15161371
communism could work in true post-scarcity society...maybe

>>15161352
>After Unicorn and before the late UC stuff there is a good 20 - 25 years of peace
Only because Bandai/Sunrise haven't gotten around to filling in the gaps.
>The Federation still does not give a shit about Spacenoids
After almost two solid decades of genocide, colony drops, NBC warfare and terrorism, can you blame them? All but the youngest Fed leaders would have grown up in the shadow of that lunacy. I'm more amazed that there wasn't a Titans MkII to try and contain that shit.

>>15160873

Who is that nasty girl? Get her out, anon

>>15161376
>post scarcity

fucking impossible, your magic technology that gets rid of entropy will never be real

when there are 30 billion people in the earth sphere, we'll fight over resources on a larger scale then before

seriously, examine that statement "post scarcity", and then go learn about what we are doing right now in terms of resource extraction to meet demands

unless we gas everyone save maybe 500 million people, we will NEVER have enough to go around

>>15161377
Only the Zeons really did that. The Federation officials are corrupt and don't give a shit about any of the Sides when shit hits the fan. All the majority shareholders, board members and CEOs of Anaheim Electronics should lined up against a wall and shot but the corruption never gets dealt with.

I'm not saying SIEG ZEON or any of that but it's a cycle of hate and mistrust that creates a feedback loop and I feel like the general resolution that a lot of the UC shows portray is almost nihilistic. The message always is "the system is fucked on both ends but the most we can do is follow our heart and instincts and try to act with compassion and do what we feel is right." Great message and all but it never seems to help on anything but the individual level. I guess it's a good reflection of the real world though.

>>15161387
>when there are 30 billion people in the earth sphere
Except there will never be that many people. Every advanced society seems to suffer from greatly reduced birth rates, and low developed countries have high death rates to make up for the births.

>>15160493
Is that Red Warrior?

>>15161387
I don't think you need to end entropy to have true post-scarcity. Obviously, there are quite a few technological, social and cultural breakthrough needed to even think about a society like that but I'm just theorizing. Also the more educated a populace is and the more technology they have the lower their birth rates, so that's not exactly a problem.

>>15161065
>Meanwhile Judau Ashta and his ship of Newtypes manage to go colonize beyond the Earth Sphere in that Victory Gundam Side Story.
would be neat to get an AU that's situated on an explicitly non-Earth planet and have them reveal towards the end of the series that it was colonized by Newtypes fleeing Earth in the distant past

>>15161145
>>15161352
>>15161377
>>15161405
well the reason the Federation is in such a dire condition is that it never recovered at all economically or culturally from the OYW, indeed they don't at all until near the end of Victory(and if we take either G-Saviour or Gaia Gear as canon then that recovery was extremely temporary)

>>15161407
while you aren't wrong, even now we are on the verge of running out of metals like copper, if we ever collectivize in the future we'd only be able to provide basic necessities to people, and nevermind the quality

what would be fucking rad would be oniel cylinders around the asteroid belt with drone fleets to do all the mining, inside you could have an ideal environment and have all organic food and such with climate controls

thinking about it, a future with the elite in space is more realistic then them on earth

>Also the more educated a populace is and the more technology they have the lower their birth rates
your average western nation even with a collapsing population, consumes more resources now then all of their history combined dude
and if EVERY nation reached them same technology level well

>>15161405

I really have no idea why people think shutting down Anaheim will in any way help things. All you'll be doing is empowering a different bunch of ass holes to take their place. Besides which, AE themselves aren't the problem. They supply weapons, but it's not like they're manipulating factions behind the scenes to guarantee sales. The various Spacenoid factions are the ones causing people to need weapons and even if AE didn't exist to sell those weapons, someone would.

>>15161441
If the Sides had an autonomous government or democratically elected representatives on the Central Assembly they could prosecute AE officials who are clearly corrupt and making conflicts worse. Obviously if terrorists really want to get weapons they can but you don't have to make it easy for them. Zeon remnants would also lose support over time if the Feddies took any steps toward including Spacenoids in their own government. I mean even without that Full Frontal's Sleeves were a shadow of a force.

I get that Zeon and the various factions are the aggressors in almost every conflict but the Federation is shit at promoting unity.

>>15161482

> making conflicts worse

Literally all they've ever done is given weapons to people already determined to fight.

> you don't have to make it easy for them

If AE weren't around, someone would be. And even if they weren't, stealing weapons in Gundam is pathetically easy. AE are no easier than any other method.

> the Federation is shit

I wasn't saying otherwise. I just don't think blaming AE or acting like they're the big problem is at all reasonable.

>>15161509
>Literally all they've ever done is given weapons to people already determined to fight.

So you'd be OK with Lockheed selling F22's or something to ISIS or whatever? It proliferates conflict. Post OYW the Zeons would still be fighting in Zaku IIs if greed didn't blind AE. AE isn't a HUGE problem but it's a symptom of the endemic problems with the Federation: blatant corruption that often goes unpunished.

>>15161527

I wouldn't be angry at Lockheed over ISIS having jets if that's what you mean, because even if Lockheed didn't sell them someone else would since they obviously have the means to get them in such a scenario. I'd rather find out how they got that kind of cash and stop them than worry about Lockheed.

Also, Zeon literally started a martial revolution in the One Year War, and I'm pretty sure all of Haman's Neo Zeon weapons were manufactured in house. Acting like if AE didn't supply the faction weapons they wouldn't have any is ignoring history, since they've shown the tenacity to make weapons out of civilian vehicles in the past if need be and the ability to make modern and effective mobile weapons out of little resources too.

AE's existence isn't symptomatic of Federation corruption, it's symptomatic of reality. There's always a weapon supplier who'll sell to whoevers paying. You can crush one if you want, but two more will fill it's space.

>>15161558
>I wouldn't be angry at Lockheed over ISIS having jets if that's what you mean, because even if Lockheed didn't sell them someone else would

The things you read on the internet. Scary shit.
>Officer, even if I didn't rape her somebody else would have

>>15161558

The Delaz fleet also made some of their own suits (the Dra-C), as well as stealing some (the GP-02) and re-engineering some Principality suits to make them as good as modern units, like the Val Varo. And the Sleeves were getting units like the Shambloo through other companies, as well as apparently engineering some units like the Kshatriya themselves. Only Char's Neo Zeon appears to really have relied on AE.

>>15161562

> even if I didn't rape her someone else would

Nice strawman.

>>15161574
>Nice strawman.
I'm glad you recognize >>15161558's fallacy

>>15161558
I'm not saying they wouldn't have any, they would likely have less. And yes, it is symptomatic of Federation corruption when you have AE officials putting pressure on Federation officials to put off hunting down Neo Zeon remnants because it's profitable so they can be used for political purposes. The Sleeves are a literal terrorist organization not recognized by the Federation as any kind official fighting force yet AE still mass-produced the Geara-Doga for them. That's absolutely ridiculous, even if they could get the Geara-Zulu somewhere else (black market, manufacture it themselves) it shouldn't be swept under rug that a supposed civilian corporation ostensibly under Federation law is making mobile suits for terrorists and enemy factions.

Of course it's symptomatic of reality, I'm sure similar situations happen all the time in conflict zones. That doesn't mean steps shouldn't be taken to minimize those kinds of things. Going "oh, someone else will step in" doesn't help anything, it just absolves everyone involved of responsibility.

>>15161591

You don't quite get what a fallacy actually is I think.

> I sold this man a weapon without real knowledge of when he'd use it, how he'd use it or anything else - but he was obviously determined to commit the crimes he did regardless of whether I sold him the weapon or not
> Accessory to a crime because it helps enable the crime

> I realized this woman was going to be raped regardless of me so I raped her instead
> An actual crime in and of itself because it's not enabling someone else, it's directly committing

> equivalent to each other

>>15161606

When did AE officials put pressure on the Federation to put off hunting down Neo Zeon remnants? The closest I can think of is Mineva in Unicorn saying that the Federation didn't chase Neo Zeon personnel down for political reasons, but she doesn't implicate AE in that at all and it's still only a theory on her end regardless.

The Sleeves also inherited Neo Zeon's Geara Doga, not had new ones mass produced.

I'm also not absolving AE of any responsibility or saying they shouldn't face investigation or prosecution, only that they're hardly the major reason that conflict happens in UC, that shooting or dissolving them won't solve anything and that every major conflict would probably have happened regardless of their existence or actions. There are far bigger things to worry about in UC, and bigger organizations to sort out before AE. Like the Federation themselves, or the various Colony organizations claiming to fight for Spacenoid freedom.

>>15161627
I meant Geara-Zulu, not Doga. Of course there are bigger problems, but the Federation seemingly takes zero steps to solve...anything at all really.

>When did AE officials put pressure on the Federation to put off hunting down Neo Zeon remnants? The closest I can think of is Mineva in Unicorn saying that the Federation didn't chase Neo Zeon personnel down for political reasons, but she doesn't implicate AE in that at all and it's still only a theory on her end regardless.

Really just headcanon, forgot I said that.

>>15161606
>And yes, it is symptomatic of Federation corruption when you have AE officials putting pressure on Federation officials to put off hunting down Neo Zeon remnants because it's profitable so they can be used for political purposes.
Where are you even getting that from? Most of the sidestories that implicate EFF corruption is about them turning a blind eye to the remnants so they have an excuse to keep their own army funded and in-house development going. They never have a reason to confront Anaheim Electronics.

The only time that I can remember anyone trying to confront AE was when the Titans shook their fist weakly at AE and in return AE provided them with the Marasai so the Titans were happy.

>>15161627
>You don't quite get what a fallacy actually is I think.
And I don't think you have even half a brain. You're literally saying
>I knew this guy was going to murder someone no matter what
>so I might as well just hand him the gun
Wow, you're a fucking idiot. Congrats!

>>15161667

That's not what actually happens. What actually happens is AE or whatever arms dealer does NOT know those weapons are going to be used for crimes. At least there's enough plausible deniability for them to say they don't know.

The UC world doesn't seem to have the concept of civil rights, but the right to bear arms is taken up to eleven. Even if not written in the Constitution, the Feds aren't really trying to take people's guns away, and the so masses reserve their right to bear arms, which includes and is not limited to mobile weapons.

So AE can be like "oh I'm sure he's just gonna use it for self defense. Maybe he lives in space wilderness and has to defend against space bears wandering into his backyard!"

>>15161742
>I sold someone a tank without knowing who they were or what they were going to do with it
>this is moral
No matter how much you backpedal, your argument will never, ever make sense.

>>15161087
>The people in space have been living there with thousands of years and experienced no apocalypse
and
>wanted to live on Earth again
Doesn't really seem to match up. There's a reason all the Spacenoids want to send people back to Earth. While they may not have been as damaged as the Earth was, its clear that in Turn A and G-Reco that the Space Factions have also been affected and are going through a decline. As said in >>15161107
>The people who did move in to space always stagnated and never did anything though, with some portion of their populace wanting to move back to Earth because living in space sucks
The only addendum I would add to this is that you need to put into context the stagnation and the reason it sucks being that they were living in the aftermath of the apocalyptic Dark History. The difference between Earth and the colonies in that situation that made Earth so attractive is that Earth can naturally heal and recover on its own while in Space everything has to be created and maintained by man.

>EF doesn't give a shit about the colonies
>Colonies give a shit about not having representation in the EF
>???
Why do the colonies care so much? Were they still being taxed by the man in Late UC or not see how quickly the EF is to bow down to the next latest and greatest space overlord? I don't get it. Seems like they could've formed their own govts. and either had friendly or non-existant relationships with earth at that point.

>>15161747

Both those posts are by one person. While living in space sucked, it didn't such because of constant wars or being post apocalyptic. Both shows make that abundantly clear. The Moon is bad because resources have to micro managed much more than on Earth. Living in Venus sucks because people are becoming midgets. Post apocalypse isn't involved in either. The Dark History is so uninvolved to the Moon that the vast majority simply do not know it was ever a thing. People stayed on the Moon to escape it. That's it. That's all the influence it had on their situation.

>>15161087
>Char and Full Frontal wanted to move people in to space because it'd evolve humanity, and in both Turn-A and G-Reco the humans that had been living in space with millenia were no better off and just wanted to live on Earth again. So no, they were quite definitely incorrect about moving people to space doing any good at all.
hell, even in early UC many colonies were shitholes. ZZ showed us that, and this was after what, only 30-40 years of colonies even being a thing?

>>15161757
Why are resources micromanaged so much in Turn A when they aren't in UC? Prolly not the best analogy, but the vast majority of peasants in Europe never knew about the fall of the Roman Empire, but that doesn't mean they don't still live with the consequences. What I'm trying to get at is that such destructive conflict that sends technology and society so far backward creates an underlying effect that causes other issues, such as resource scarcity that in turn leads to things like Micromanagement and measures for population control. Space may have not regressed as much as the Earth, but they're definitely dealing with things in the aftermath of the Dark History that weren't as big of an issue, if at all, for most early UC colonies. If the Earth Federation had just let go of its grip and the whole Space-Earth conflict got resolved instead of dragging out for centuries and destroying civilization, humanity may have created a true spacefaring civilization that extended far beyond the Earth Sphere and fully utilize the resources made available from space. Instead we got to see the story of humanity wasting its potential as it slowly slides towards eventual extinction.

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>>15160493
That art is by Mamoru Ito, the guy who designed the mecha for Gaia Gear.

If he designed the mecha for that show, I would have watched the fuck out of it.

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>>15161860

I can't be the only one to notice, but this guy's art is very reminiscent of Kazumi Fujita's styling. A much more legitimate design evolution than any of the bricks seen in ZZ, that's for certain.

>>15161860

There's something oddly squashed looking about the chest of the Gaia Gear, and I can't quite figure it out. It always keeps me from really liking the design though.

>>15160493
In that parallel universe OP is bitching that we got this instead of ZZ.

>>15161854

> Space may have not regressed as much as the Earth, but they're definitely dealing with things in the aftermath of the Dark History that weren't as big of an issue, if at all, for most early UC colonies.

The Moonrace micromanaged people according to Fran because there were many times more people than jobs to occupy them. The Moonrace doesn't have nanomachine technology, but other than that they really don't appear to be missing much in the way of technology. They lived on the Moon instead of colony cylinders, but they had multiple cities on the Moon, at least some of which consisted of several levels, but that doesn't mean they didn't have the technology to build cylinders, only that they lacked the desire.

> humanity may have created a true spacefaring civilization that extended far beyond the Earth Sphere

Humanity, or at least it's successor's already did according to Turn-A, since newtypes were the ones that created the Turn-X. That aside, Spacenoids are the oppressors in G-Reco, and have been with centuries at least, if not millenia, and they didn't do anything but stagnate despite having no opposition from Earth. They had all the time and chance to do so then. They still didn't. Earthnoids aren't to blame for holding them back. They just didn't do it.

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>>15160873
The best timeline.

>>15161745

No, it makes perfect sense, and your denial is not a rebuttal. We know it makes sense because it happens IRL. Politicians maneuver themselves so they can deny any knowledge of the crap that goes on in their organizations all the time, and get away with it.

And there are gun-nuts who really think every American ought to have the right to own any weapon the government gets, including and not limited to nukes.

Remember UC ain't some utopian future. It's not far fetch for it to issues we have today and amplifying it. This is a universe where we see little kids piloting giant mobile weapons all the time.

>>15167781
But they do have those rights. Everyone had those rights and it wasn't until the 1920s with communists everywhere that these rights were challenged effectively and denied by governments. Also you can legally own nukes in the US. It's just prohibitively expensive.

>>15167781
>every American ought to have the right to own any weapon the government gets, including and not limited to nukes.
We've had that right since the Bill of Rights was added to the constitution. It wasn't really challenged overmuch because of the stratification of society and wealth being the main arbiter of who could own nice shit like a cannon. It's not even really challenged until early gun control (to control and disarm blacks/minorities).

>guns are for barbarians, m'kay
Even the report that Obama ordered after the Sandy Hook thing says that guns aren't a good OR bad thing. It takes an idiot to not realize that America has a serious issue with crime control of gangs in several cities which drive our "gun violence" statistic way higher per demographic that politicians refuse to seriously examine and fix since they involve sticky race/society politics.

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>>15167781
>And there are gun-nuts who really think every American ought to have the right to own any weapon the government gets, including and not limited to nukes.

SHALL

NOT

BE

INFRINGED

>>15160493
Non-Judau = Non-ZZ