New Eureka Seven AO final episode

>>15117512
Will it retcon the sequel out of existence this time?

MAKE IT STOP

FUCK

>>15117512
Have we been curse or something?

>>15117512
Well, it can't exactly make the series worse, so either this will be completely pointless, or it will make the series better.

On a related note, I checked the talk page for AO's episode list on Wikipedia and noticed that Dragondragon is dead, so I guess this new episode brought me some good news.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ryulong

>>15117677
>New Eureka Seven
OH BOY OH BOY OHBOYO OHB

>AO
never mind

>>15117512
Why would you even buy the Pachinko license if you know the show is so bad that you have to make a new ending to try to fix it just to advertise your machine? Why not get the rights to some other show? Was AO just super cheap to license?

>>15117790
IIRC they did the same thing with the original E7 series with a bunch of scenes showing what happened to most of the crew (outside of Renton and Eureka). Some anon even posted it here years back

I've never seen original Eureka Seven but I love AO. Disregarding it as a sequel it's a good show that stands on its own..

Does it contradict things that happen in the original? Why do the original fans dislike it?

>>15118193
Why would you watch a sequel without seeing the original?

>>15118193
It literally takes a piss on the ending and validates the villain of the original show

>>15118215
It's a "sequel" only in name. They have a different core main cast. E7 isn't the only series to have done that. It's accessible to new fans. It's not like picking up G-Tekketsu S2 for example.

>>15118193

The original series is about the relationship between Eureka and Renton, and they shit they overcome in order to be together and in doing so prove that mankind and the coral can live in harmony without destroying each other. It is set in a unique and original setting in what appears to be another world that is only eventually revealed to be Earth, 12000 years in the future, after alien coral crashed on the planet and completely overtook the biosphere. Despite the hardships faced throughout the show, everything ends on a very optimistic note, though there are still problems left open for the future.

AO tosses away the setting of E7 and has to set the show 12000 years in the past OF AN ALTERNATE DIMENSION just so that they can include Japan and some hamfisted politics, which isn't a great start to a sequel. "Hey, you know everything that made the original unique? Lets get rid of that."

On top of that, they ruin Eureka and Renton's relationship. They BS a reason why half coralian kids insta-die (humans can survive in trapars without any harm, coralians produce trapars, half-coralians... are deathly allergic to trapars? WTF?), and they undo all of the work that R & E were supposed to have done in the original, because the scubs are the enemy now and all we see of them are futures where the skubs end up destroying humanity, thus proving the genocidal madman from the first series right all along.

On top of THAT, every time they bring back something from the first show its so that they can have it do nothing and then explode. Which gets really confusion sometimes, because some of the stuff they bring back just to destroy offhandedly didn't survive the first show anyway, so its just sort of confusing for it to be their at all and then insulting to raise that interest and those questions just to toss it away like it didn't matter.

Basically, without fail, the original series is NEVER brought up in AO without shitting on it directly and intentionally.

>>15118300
>Basically, without fail, the original series is NEVER brought up in AO without shitting on it directly and intentionally.

This, and Ao is full of plot threads that promise payoff and then back out at the last minute with underwhelming anticlimax. Promise cool thing, act like you are going to get cool thing, ha ha fuck you nothing happens now lets move on.

The whole show really feels like it was made by someone who had nothing but disdain for the source material and the people who wanted more of it, so they set out to make a show that insulted the audience as often as it possible could.

>>15118300
I still can't believe that AO was basically "Dewey was Right: The Animation".
The new writer must have been really butthurt that he lost in the original series.
The animation was great and the OST was fucking delicious, with stuff like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJdERiK97Z0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9w-IRgkN70
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYjO1GlJam0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9OMCHxFr9s
But god that plot was so bad.

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Obligatory reminder that AO doesn't only insult the original series, but also insults its own point and message:
>Show slowly builds up the "Even though you've lost your original family, the Triton crew is your new family that loves you" message for Ao, Elena and Fleur
>In the final episode Ao erases himself from reality and murders everyone he knows, replacing them with completely different people, just to reunite his mama and papa
That was fucking awful.

Also, they made Ao too young. Are we really supposed to believe a 16 year old girl fell in love with a 13 year old brat?

>>15118300
>AO tosses away the setting of E7 and has to set the show 12000 years in the past OF AN ALTERNATE DIMENSION

That's something the showrunners have done twice to justify E7 getting a sequel now, hasn't it?

My recollection is vague, but I seem to recall the movie taking place in a different dimension to the show's as well, despite similarities.

>>15118410
It also reused animation and made the main cast(Gekko) Children(literally) in adults bodies, and Anemone 70 years old.

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>>15118410
>My recollection is vague, but I seem to recall the movie taking place in a different dimension to the show's as well, despite similarities.

The movie and comics just shuffle the setting around. Like, the movie makes Renton and Eureka siblings, IIRC.
Also, anything that isn't the original show ends in a catastrophe with everything going to shit as if they got tired of people comparing it to Evangelion.

Let's be fair here, most /m/echa movies tell a different story altogether.

>>15118410

Yeah, though at least that had something of a clever twist to it. Everything was similar, but different, because this was the alternate reality created during the Limit of Questions during the end of the show, the new universe that half the scub fled to in order to give humanity more breathing room on Earth so they wouldn't destroy each other.

In AO, the alternate dimension is just so they can set it in Japan again without turning the show into Terminator.

>>15118410
>showrunner

Usually in American parlance that usually means the head writer. Here it was the chief director, which is where the problem emerges, the majority of Ao is written by people that had no experience with the original source material. The chief writer of Ao only wrote three episodes before fucking off and apparently has no writing experience in anything before this job (and hence) and Sho Aikawa alongtime Bones writer just didn't have any experience with the source material.

So tossing out all the previous story is more a result of the fact the two shows are been written by two different writing teams.

>>15118521
>Yeah, though at least that had something of a clever twist to it.
No it didn't/ It was just incredibly lazy.

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>>15118300
>. It is set in a unique and original setting in what appears to be another world that is only eventually revealed to be Earth, 12000 years in the future, after alien coral crashed on the planet and completely overtook the biosphere.

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>>15117790
>Why would you even buy the Pachinko license if you know the show is so bad that you have to make a new ending to try to fix it just to advertise your machine?

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>>15118193
>Does it contradict things that happen in the original?
Not really. Hell it barely even acknowledges the original outside a few references.

>Why do the original fans dislike it?
NOT MUH EUREKA SEVEN also ironically enough the fans citing it proved "Dewey right" completely missed the point of the original despite criticizing AO for "shitting on it". Dewey was already proven wrong by the end of the series when you realize what his true intentions were and Ao's existence only confirms it. The original never gave much of a concrete answer to the solution hence why Eureka and Renton fucked off to make good on their promise to the Nirvash to find one and they're still working on it in the sequel. You see this? >>15118367 doesn't even happen at all. All the butthurt comes from retards who just wanted a rehash of the original which wasn't even good to begin with.

>>15118367
>Are we really supposed to believe a 16 year old girl fell in love with a 13 year old brat?
>he doesn't believe in the power of /ss/
KISAMA!!

>>15118427
>Renton and Eureka siblings, IIRC
Childhood friends

>>15118800
>>15118844
>Aofag is still alive four years later

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It's like a nightmare that keeps returning

>>15118844
>You see this? >>15118367 (You) doesn't even happen at all.
Now you're trolling.

But on the off chance that you're not trolling: magically replacing someone with another, identically looking person with completely different memories is the same as killing them. A person is the sum of their memories and feelings. After the first firing of the Retcon Gun, the Maggie Kwan that was a part of Team Goldielocks was for all intents and purposes dead, replaced by another person with a different history. After the final firing of the Retcon Gun, everybody that Ao knew and loved, every single person on the Triton crew, met the same fate.

>>15119258
Nice fanfiction retard but nothing in the show even implies that's the case just that their history was altered.

>people defending any part of this anime
E7 is a horrible anime. I got about 17 episodes in and realised I fucking hated all the characters but decided to keep watching

Shit slow pacing, couldn't empathise with a single character, plotlines were mostly totally uninteresting. The first half goes absolutely nowhere, the action sucked and the ending fucking blew

Horrid anime

>>15119434
Nice blog, subscribed

Kyoda Tomoki destroyed E7 with AO. Fuck this bitch.

>>15119363
>nothing in the show even implies that's the case just that their history was altered.
>just that their history was altered.
That's EXACTLY what implies that's the case. Anon, you are a sum of your memories and experiences. If the history of your life is completely changed, the resulting person is not you. You don't exist anymore. You, as in the person you've become over your life, ceased to exist. That doesn't depend on the show's inner workings, it's a basic philosophical statement. Drastically altering the last 14 years of someone's life = killing that person.

>>15119446
Are you 12? Is this why you are stuck on this bad series?

>>15119487
Once again, nice fan fiction

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Reminder that AO is noncanon because otherwise it killed pic related

>>15119721
That was never canon

I hope Fleur wins in the new ending.

>>15119637
But thats literally what happens and we see that when Truth fires gun on himself, the Truth that was a mudering asshole never existed, the only Truth that existed is the AI one

Man, I just realized, Aofag is the reverse Valvrager

>>15119726
If it makes you feel any better, I'm sure the new episode will have a cheesy ending with Ao meeting Fleur again and Fleur will half-recognize him like in hit movie "Your Name".

>>15119730
I have not watched that movie so I don't really understand the reference, also Truth had no indication of know he was a Secret when he became a AI, he acted like he was an AI from the very start and was always with Ao, though his is E7AO and disrespecting their own rules and creating stupid plot holes is their thing

>>15119743

This. Time rewriting is basically the Star Trek transporter dilemma applied to the whole universe. All of the people you knew before you changed time no longer exist. If you had changed time a few decades deeper into the past, its unlikely that there would even be new versions of them, they would just never exist at all.

Like, lets say that I went back and stopped WW2 before it started with some brilliant plan. Then I come back to 2017.

Unless you are surprisingly old for posting on this site, its very likely that you no longer exist. None of the people you grew up with were born. The situations that caused their parents to exist/meet each other/have kids are totally different and likely never happened at all. Even in the statistical miracle that two specific people end up fucking in both timelines, its going to be a different sperm winning the race this time without literal hand of god fate shit going on, so a new kid is born this time.

Billions of people that existed in the first world DO NOT EXIST in the second one. And many of the people who exist in both have lead very different lives and have very different memories and experiences.

Whether or not you have killed people really depends on whether you can someone who isn't alive currently a being 'dead' if the only person who thinks there were every alive in the first place is you the time traveler.

>>15119807
The time alteration mechanics in AO were also really weird nad barely made sense, anyone holding the gun from the grip side doesn't suffer the alteration and is safe and Renton with his "unpossible" nirvash also somehow isn't affected by it

AO makes no sense. Anyone defending it trolling.

>>15119726
>But thats literally what happens
Wrong again
>and we see that when Truth fires gun on himself, the Truth that was a mudering asshole never existed, the only Truth that existed is the AI one
Which isn't the same as killing him since Truth still exists.

>>15119743
>also Truth had no indication of know he was a Secret when he became a AI, he acted like he was an AI from the very start and was always with Ao
Wrong again dumbfuck. Jesus christ you can at least try to pay attention to the show you're criticizing

>>15119826
>>15119818
Its funny, you say that while not providing anything to show that you are right and saying that the Truth still exists is a goddamn lie, its literally a AI that only has a voice pattern similar to his, it even talks differently from him, there is literally nothing from the old Truth aside from the voice, how the fuck can it be the same person if there is nothing else from the person there?

>>15119816

Yeah, the retcon gun is a plot device in the most literal sense imaginable.

Remember how AO uses the time gun on a bunch of secrets, and all he does is screw with the past of some people born there?

And then Renton shows up and wants to use the Time Gun to go back in time and erase the first scub coral to show up in this dimension, thus wiping out all skub coral everywhen.

And then AO shoots a couple of random secrets, and in doing so supposedly wipes out all secrets who every existed everywhen? Despite these not being the first secrets and thus having nothing in similar with Renton's plan, and AO having already done this exact same thing before with none of this fanfare or effect?

The time just just does whatever the writer wants it to do at that moment, with no consistency or logic to it. Fuck, we don't even know where it came from or how Renton knew it existed in the first place. It looks exactly the same as the Neo-Nirvash, but it just sort of grew out of quartz that one time so its sort or insane to imagine that it was built by anyone, or that anyone could have planned for this magic very specific gun to spontaneously make itself exist one day.

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>>15119835
>Show says its Truth
>Nah-uh
>Why?
>Because I say so

Okay

>>15119842
>Show says its Truth
>Doesn't act like Truth
>Doesn't talk like Truth
>Doesn't acknowledge ever existing as an antagonistic entity to Ao
>Is a simple AI with a soundchip that has a voice simlar to Truth
>Somohow it is Truth because you say so

In every single thread about AO the only thing you can do is post a reaction image and act like that is somehow a compeling argument, how dumb or underage can you possibly be?

>>15119844
>Show says its Truth
>Somohow it is Truth because you say so
>you
But the show says its Truth

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>>15117512
>Ao pissing in a bottle
>Seduces Naru as a kid
>His dimension-hopping after the finale is all forced, lonely, and unhappy
Wow, this final episode manages to make the series even worse.

>>15119861
Here's your (you)

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>>15118811
>>15117790

Maybe the Pachinko CEO is a Fleur fan and used to be a lowly employee when AO was airing and finally rose to the top, to give his waifu the good ending she deserves.

>>15119847

The show unfortunately claims a lot of things that are stupid and make no sense.

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Oh boy; It's time for the metaphysics power hour!

It's your favorite, the intolerable anthropic principle anon!

Let's go down the list, since there's a bunch of bullshit in the thread.

>>15118844

Dewey insists that Coralians and Human cannot exist in cohabitation. E7:AO proves him right; Human-Coralian unions are inexplicably fatal to the offspring, meaning no demographic integration is possible, despite it being the goal of the Coral and Gekkostate in E7.

Dewey's planetary suicide pact was clearly crazy, but his reasoning was not broken as far as E7:AO is concerned: Humanity would have their vengance and leave on its own terms instead of harboring a fragile harmony until communication breaks down and the Scub would destroy them.

>>15119842

In philosophy, there's a concept called ontological continuity. The TL:DR is that if your consciousness is ever interrupted, there's no proof you didn't cease to exist and an identical consciousness woke up.

When there's physical continuity (sleep), it's a relatively easy sell that the consciousness persists.

When you reset the universe a decade or so and re-run it to the "present", it's rather easy to prove otherwise; If the universe is deterministic, there should be no drift. If the universe is random, drift necessarily occurs. You always no longer existed, even without any drift, but even a small shift in direction will result in a completely different person "replacing" you in position. He is not you; He does not share your memories, thoughts, opinions or knowledge.

Now, who wants to hear how E7:AO, E7 and Greg Bear's "Blood Music" conclude that E7:AO cannot physically coexist in the same multiverse as E7?

let it end
GOD PLEASE LET IT END

>>15119847
OK, let's assume your name is Faggot-kun. I'll remove you from existance and replace you with a completely different guy that looks the same and is also named Faggot-kun, but has no memories of your life, hasn't experienced what you have experienced and hasn't felt what you felt. Are you still alive, because Faggot-kun Mk II has the same name as you?

I stress this: It doesn't matter what is the show's internal logic. You are defined by your history and your history is an integral, inseparable part of you. If your life's history is completely rewritten, you're not alive. Another Faggot-kun is alive, but he's not YOU. He's someone that you could've become if events played out another way. You no longer exist, hell, you never have existed.

>>15120426
>Now, who wants to hear how E7:AO, E7 and Greg Bear's "Blood Music" conclude that E7:AO cannot physically coexist in the same multiverse as E7?
Please, tell. You seem a knowledgeable guy.

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>>15120631

It's rather simple if you spend a few hours reviewing the metaphysics.

I assume you all have a life, so here's the short version.

In E7, The "Limit of Questions" or "Limit of Matter(s)" is the point at which physics breaks because physics is affected by observation. With an arbitrary value of observation, normal physical constraints break down: You watch a particle with enough people and it won't behave.

This operates under Strong Anthropic Principle; which states that consciousness is not a coincidence, but that higher-orders of thought directed the universe towards the facilitation of even higher orders of thought. This is a theory for the reason why many physical constraints converged on the usable values in our spacetime. (Technically, an infinite number of these universes are tested, but the existence of observation in habitable universes skews reality towards them.)

This theory is COLLECTIVE; It doesn't matter who you are, reality is objective, and affected by the mass of sentience, not by individual observation. In Greg Bear's "Blood Music", the biological singularity of cellular humans got to the point where so many minds were observing the same space time, that a hole was torn in the universe (very similar to E7's Great Wall).

This theory for E7 is at odds with the required metaphysics for E7 AO.

For Marty McFly time travel, (namely, the ability to keep memories from the previous timeline and to meaningfully adjust a new timeline) a theory called the Self Sampling Assumption must be used. TL:DR Your observation of the multiverse is correct, and your adjustments of Space-Time useful because you are permitted to be a paradox (at least briefly). Without this assumption, either time travel cannot be achieved, or all time travel has already occured (In AO's case, it would mean that the whole series cannot exist, because the solution would have been completed before the problem arose.

(1/2)

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>>15120656

(2/2)

This theory is also necessary for the heartwrenching BULLSHIT of the AO finale; Because in an universe without the SSA; Ao either would not exist, or would be reassimilated in a normal timeline (Either "safely" deposited in the trapar free earth, or dead from trapar poisoning)

You might notice a significant difference between these principles: Strong Anthropic Principle says that collective consciousness adjusts reality, while the Self-Sampling Assumption says that an individual consciousness with sufficient power actually has the final say in the course of the universe.

These theories are mutually exclusive: In an E7 with the Self Sampling Assumption, The Humans and Coralians have always been peacefully integrated excluding the poor bastard who had to fix everything from out of space time (Likely Renton's father... You can fix anything with that moustache...)

And similarly, an AO running under the Strong Anthropic Principle would have no opportunity for people to get stuck out of space and time: Eureka is either here or gone, Renton either found her or didn't, and Ao lives a relatively normal Shinji get in the fucking robot life because the fucking time-travel dildo doesn't fucking work.

And that's the 4 Beers theory for why E7 AO is bullshit and why [C]:The Money of Soul and Possibility Control is criminally underrated for demonstrating the Self Sampling Assumption alongside a bitching opening.

I open the floor to discussion and insults. If Time Machines ever exist, I either I will have already won this argument, or we have already achieved the best possible result to this discussion up to and including doubles.

>>15120656
>>15120678
Thanks Anon, that was interesting.

The ONE good thing AO gave us was a porn pic of a pregnant Eureka that I saw one time and never again.

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>>15120731
It also gave us Fleur.

And Cool Renton. Too bad his role in the series was so shitty.

>>15120735
But those two things you had to watch the show to enjoy. Pregnant Eureka you could enjoy without watching a single episode.

>>15120735

The most disappointing part about this show is that it was half good at parts.

Faisal Arabia looked like AO was an excuse to get a series of "The Vice guide to Scub Coral", while Generation Blu looked like a competent world defense force for once.

>>15120743
>Generation Blu looked like a competent world defense force for once.
You mean the "let's leave everything to kids" Ltd., subsidue of "hamfisted message" Inc.? Yeah they were quite competent.

>>15120735
>And Cool Renton
Voiced by Fujiwara. Nah. There ain't nothing cool about that. AO basically tried to imply that Renton grew into a Holland where Renton NOT being like Holland was so important at times. Ah fuck it who even cares.

>>15120780

Until they started trying to fight hurricanes with fighter jets, they still had a chance of being decent.

>>15120782

I remember the 2nd episode, where we thought Ao would be a bitter youngster to Renton's relaxed mentor role; turning the original dynamic on its head.

God.. We had such amazing theories back then; Back when Elena was one of the Joy division girls "saved" during the finale of E7, Gazelle and Co were going to be used to conextualize the message as being greater than political squabbling and Johannsen was Jurgens recording what he remembered of the war for the sake of posterity, with Truth as just another war orphan with a conflicting perspective to Ao.

>>15120678
You are a true wizard. I'm a physics student at the moment, but this feels like a mixture of physics and psychology. I also really enjoyed [C], and am disappointed that I've never heard anyone else mention it. I guess you've also figured out S;G, Lain, and Psycho Pass.

>>15120799

I will never not be mad that we didn't, in the second half of the show, end an episode with a motorcycle pulling up to a crossroads, the dude on it pulling out a map and looking at it in confusion... and Dominic wondering aloud "where the hell is Switzerland?"

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>people are under the delusion Astral Ocean and that movie are not superior to the first series despite doing everything literally and objectively better

Seeing the brainwashed masses at ANN doesn't help tings either.

>>15121220
Both you and your screenshot are stupid. Pray remove yourself from the premises, knave.

>>15121233
No, just the complaints int he screen shot are stupid, Astral Ocean was one of the best anime of 2012 and did what the first series was supposed to be.

>>15120851
I'm an econfag and I liked [C]

>>15121257
Anon, there's nothing wrong with being contrarian, I mean, I sort of liked AO too. But you're beyond contrarian. You're delusional.

AO's second half is not bad because of the way it treats the original. AO's second half is bad on its own. It's just an incoherent mess that fucks up character development and motivation, drops interesting plot-points with unsatisfying conclusions, brings in a literal plot device, and in the end is hijacked by Renton and Eureka, who, despite being tertiary characters, are the only ones to get any closure, for the price of the protagonist being retconned out and everyone else having their whole lives rewritten, reversing any character development they ever had.

The MOTW first half was actually amazing in comparison.

>>15121321
>Anon, there's nothing wrong with being contrarian, I mean, I sort of liked AO too. But you're beyond contrarian. You're delusional.
I am neither contrarian or delusional, I just state the facts.
>AO's second half is bad on its own
Aside from the lack of monsters of the week there was nothing worth complaining about in the second half at all.

>>15121336

By definition, if you were suffering from a delusion you wouldn't be in trustworthy position to claim otherwise. Everyone who is delusional thinks they are fine, that's why its called a delusion.

>>15121349
that is such a cool mouth anon, bet it talks with dialogue as it consumes the stars and galaxies of our cosmos.

Also there was absolutely nothing delusional about what I said so nah.

>>15121336
>there was nothing worth complaining about in the second half at all.
Since you just repeat yourself, I'll repeat myself too:
>It's just an incoherent mess that fucks up character development and motivation, drops interesting plot-points with unsatisfying conclusions, brings in a literal plot device, and in the end is hijacked by Renton and Eureka, who, despite being tertiary characters, are the only ones to get any closure, for the price of the protagonist being retconned out and everyone else having their whole lives rewritten, reversing any character development they ever had.

>>15121386
except you are wrong in every way

>>15121390
>except you are wrong in every way
That convinced me man, how could I have been so wrong? Thanks Anon, if not for your eloquence, I would forever think that AO was bad.

>>15121399
For starters
>incoherent mess
It was nothing of the sort, that is Concrete Revolution
>fucks up character development
It does not
>drops interesting plot-points
This never happens
>literal plot device
There is no such thing as plot devices, go back to TVTropes
>hijacked by Renton
He did not hijack it he merely appeared and fought his son
>despite being tertiary characters
Not relevant
>only ones to get any closure
Except this is lying
>being retconned out
I'll give you that
>whole lives rewritten
They were miserable, now they are happy, point moot
>reversing any character development
That means nothing because they are not real, just colored lines

>The AO hatedom is more retarded than the G-Reco hatedom

That is quite the accomplishment

>>15121257
>Astral Ocean was one of the best anime of 2012
2012 was a pretty shit year, especially for mecha.
That's when AGE finished and we had Guilty Crown

>>15121717
>whining this hard
Also you're thinking 2013 aka when Valvrave bore itself

>>15121730
>baiting this hard

Still better than Snore Mazinger ZZZ

>see thread
>wonder if that guy's in it
>yup

I'm surprised the AO shitposter is still active after all these years. Maybe he was shitposting about Gundam as a side hobby to sustain him until this happened.

>>15121399
Stop, thats AOfag, whenever the physics anon posts his rant countering AOfag he simply switchs gear and start shitposting for another reason, we have been doing this song and dance for years

>>15121784
>he was shitposting about Gundam
And a couple other shows too perhaps.

>>15119807
Ah this reminds me of Noein. Good times.

>>15121991

I kinda John Wick my way into threads whenever I get tired of people shitting on one of the two light-hearted singularities in Mecha.

I'd defend RahXephon more often if people actually cared about it, but E7 actually comes up enough that I can't stand watching it get trashed.

It would be more of a Holmes-Moriarty thing here if he ever bothered putting together a counter argument, As it stands, I'm pretty damn close to cleaning up a few of my copypastas and sharing them with the board.

>>15122663

I think I have been your opponent an unreasonable number of times, over the years. If someone is posting a wall of text about AO, odds are good its been me.

So, hi!

The thing is, I liked E7. I wouldn't call it flawless, but it did a lot right and it was unique and had a style and tone that just worked wonders for it.

But as much as I wanted Astral Ocean to be good... it just wasn't. It breaks my fucking heart, but its a crime what the writers did to that show. In fact, it comes to mind as a serious contender for the worst written anime I have ever scene.

The music was good, the character designs were good, the mecha design and most of the secrets were aces. They even managed to set up the characters such that I actually gave a shit when they fucked everything up from episodes 4 or so onward.

But there is a very basic tenet of writing. Its what makes plot arcs WORK. You, the writer, make promises to the audience. And then you pay off those promises. Chekovs gun is more specific example that you probably know. You don't have to give exactly what has been promised at the end, but if its not what you were setting up the expectation for what you actually deliver on has to be twice as good so that people are happy that they didn't get it in the end.

AO fundamentally did not understand this is how stories work. Promises are made left and right that build a lot of hype and interest, but the show consistently fails to deliver on those. And when the plot thread isn't just unceremoniously dropped, the payoff is replaced with an anticlimax. They are so obsessed with subverting expectations that they forgot that when you do so you have to do it twice as well, not half. As a previous anon already mentioned, it even worked against its own themes by the end.

Its a show with some good ingredients that is ultimately ruined by a totally inept plot that reads like they replaced the writing staff entirely once or twice mid-production.

>>15122738

Agreed on all counts. To be frank, I get the impression that they rewrote at least twice in a vain attempt to court a different audience.

Fleur is a miracle of the universe... Pity she's in the wrong one.

>>15122763
Really, the last few episodes reek of desperation, they even went back and contacted the bands that did the opening and insert songs for E7 in an attempt to throw a bone to the fans

>>15122763

The thing that really baffles me was Elena. They put so much work, and gave so much screentime, into that character just so go "eh, whatever. The grand reveal is... everything we told you was wrong and nothing happened at all! Ta-dah!"

Like, was she the pet of some previous head writer that they were stuck with and just tossed aside as soon as they could? This can't have been the original plan for her, if it was then giving her multiple episodes of focus at the expense of literally any other character is bananas. Even the smugglers or Fleur's dad would have been a better use of that screentime if you weren't going to give any payoff. Fuck, even more TRUTH would have made more sense, and I hated Truth.

make it stop please, I've had enough. Enough...

>>15123033
The best part about Elena is that her very being exists to make Eureka into some kind of asshole because she aparently just kidnapped her for no real reason and traveled with her across time and dumped her just as randomly

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>>15122738
>but it did a lot right and it was unique and had a style and tone that just worked wonders for it.
No it didn't. As A LOT of people have stated all E7 did was rip-off tropes from much better shows with the end result being a convoluted mess of half-baked ideas. It doesn't help that the creator himself as outright admitted that he had to go through several rewrites throughout the show hence why the ending is a Deus Ex Machina because he just liked the cast so much that he rewrote ending on the fly, people put it on a high pedestal because of nostalgia, and I already know some jackass is going to come quote saying "but I watched it recently and thought it was good" don't worry I didn't discount people having bad taste as another factor, but upon actually watching all the show it took "inspiration" its actually less than the sum of its parts.

>>15123427
dont know bout all dat

>>15121413
>didn't like Concrete Revolution(n)
>debunks reverse character development by saying cartoons aren't characters in the same post in which he claims the character development is intact
>the entire battle with Truth disappeared, which I'd call a dropped plot line/point, all of which was also unsatisfying
>the Okinawan independence plot also went nowhere
>tertiary characters deserve a meaningful conclusion much less than the primary character(s)
>a plot device does indeed exist, and it probably refers to out-of-place things that appear solely to advance the plot, such as the underground LFO that Truth merged with which shouldn't canonically exist.
Can you see your tonsils yet? Because you're pretty far up there.

>>15123427
>rip-off tropes from much better shows
Eureka seven used the most basic elements of the mecha genre
>boy falls in cockpit
>boy meets girl
>robot has secret power
This kinda stuff is found all over in mecha, how is it stealing? It's a basic "boy meets girl" love story with mecha on top, but that doesn't make it bad.

Also I don't see how the ending is an asspull.
Visually I can agree that stuff was getting crazy, but thematically and storywise it all fit there.

>>15123427

Good artists practice, great artists steal.

I'll bite though; Who did it better? It's painfully obvious that the show is using previous works for its inspiration, but you're going to have to go to bat on that one.

Don't bother with "Blood Music" by the way; Greg Bear had a good idea, but wrote quite a shitty novel.

>>15123576
>Don't bother with "Blood Music" by the way; Greg Bear had a good idea, but wrote quite a shitty novel.
not him, but I doubt the writters of E7 knew jack shit about a random obscure english 80s novel

>>15123574
>Eureka seven used the most basic elements of the mecha genre
Wrong again dumbfuck.
>Also I don't see how the ending is an asspull.
Nirvash becoming resilient enough to take Eureka's place comes out of nowhere and is an asspull since even the creator admitted it. New Order (the original ending) changes this and as a whole makes a lot more sense.
>y, but thematically and storywise it all fit there.
Nope.
>>15123576
>Who did it better?
0079
Vifam
Evangelion
Gundam X
>Blood Music"
E7 didnt do a good job at that either. You give the show far too much credit

>>15123584

You know, it's almost like there's a character named "Dr. Bear" who exists solely to describe the nature of the Coral and how the Great Wall was formed through an observational singularity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5T9Yygju9IY

Get that blood pumping buddy, You ain't a match for me for pre-millennia Science Fiction, You're going to have to try harder.

>>15123593

Ah, but that wasn't your assertation; I'm going to immediately concede that E7 is not the best show on your list.

But you have yet to have elaborated on your nebulous "it". There's a whole fuckton of It in these shows Anon.

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>>15123594
>See there's a character named Dr. Bear from that book in the 80's!
>That means they know what they're talking about

>>15123602
You're right they read it on 2005 wikipedia and made it all up

>>15123602

Who describes to the letter the issue of observation causing damage to the quantum structure of reality.

You know, what Blood Music was about behind its lackluster plot.

Oh... Wait... I forgot, You don't know, because you haven't read it.

>>15123593
>Wrong again dumbfuck.
at least try to disprove that, I at least gave reasoning for why I thought so.

>Nirvash becoming resilient enough to take Eureka's place comes out of nowhere and is an asspull since even the creator admitted it.
I've never seen any comments on the ending from the staff, but I still think it still works nonetheless.

Throughout the show Renton and Eureka get better at piloting the Nirvash as their feelings towards each other grow, it's why the Amita drive was inside it.
The Nirvash had already begun to evolve when it reached its spec 2 form just a few episodes prior before reaching its final form in episode 50.

The machine basically got stronger with the power of love, and when Renton has finally matured his feelings and wants to get Eureka back it goes into full power.


>>15123594
>You know, it's almost like there's a character named "Dr. Bear" who exists solely to describe the nature of the Coral and how the Great Wall was formed through an observational singularity.
Sorry, but I don't know how this ties into that book, is it a direct reference or just a similarity?

>>15123611
>Who describes to the letter the issue of observation causing damage to the quantum structure of reality.
So they're literally copypasting word for word. Congrats E7 is as well written as Psycho Pass
>>15123600
>Ah, but that wasn't your assertation
Actually it was. But continue to fail to prove a point.
>>15123609
Cliff Notes existed back then you know that right?

>>15123617

I'm sure you know which page they copied from right? Don't worry, I'll wait.

And I'll go back and say, I concede that E7 is not the best Anime. Now describe one of these traits that those shows did better.

>>15123616

He's named after the author: Greg Bear.

It's like having a guy named Lovecraft show up with an occult tome.

>>15123616
>stuff

That's nice. Still comes out of nowhere and its still an asspull.

>>15123616

If a compatible Coralian and Human partnership could have fixed the problem, Norb would have succeeded.

Think of the Nirvash like a Coralian research probe; They sent an armored carrier alongside their representative and her chosen partner with all the necessary equipment to adapt and compensate for the imprecise nature of trying to fix a quantum space-time wedgie and interspecies diplomacy with puppy love.

As soon as they had enough information and power, there's no reason to spend Eureka as a control cluster when a perfectly serviceable multi-function probe could fill that exact role.

Remember, there's nothing special about using Eureka for that purpose; Dewey had intended to use Anemone in the same role in case of emergency, which suggests that the presence of SOME intelligence in that position is all that's truly necessary.

In regards to being an asspull we had already been demonstrated multiple times that the internal Archtypes of the LFOs are constructed by the coral and are more than functional enough... except they were missing any form of intelligence, and explicitly included in their designs an appropriate void to hook up jury-rigged controls. A "completed" archtype being the ultimate evolution of the Nirvash isn't an asspull, it's an insultingly simple alien technology subplot. Fucking Babylon 5 had an episode for that shit.

>>15122738
>mecha design

Kawamori just recycled his old shit over and over. If i still had a ps2 and armored core last raven I could build you AO's nirvash using the game's parts.

>>15123647

I like the new Nirvash, but it's pretty damn derivative.

The head mounted machine guns were a fucking treat however, so I can't hate everything.

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I wonder which parts of the Staff are working on this new episode.

I hope it fixes AO, or at least some of its issues.

I really loved E7 for its aesthetic, and the story felt really child-like.
The really positive vibes the show had and the happy-go-lucky characters was something you only like when you're a kid, or at least still have the optimism of one.

Also it's always a treat for me to see Yoshida's character designs, they bring out a lot of charm.

>>15123647
I thought Kawamori didn't work on AO, did he?
The other designs seemed way too...non-humanoid to be him...

>>15123657
the nirvash is his work without a doubt, as for the other stuff I can't say, I'd done my best to repress my memories of this show.

>>15123645
see
>>15123630
Still not explaining why it isn't an asspull

>>15123657
I get what you mean. AO's second ED (both the song and the animation) is one of my favorites because it shares a similar vibe.

It helped distract me just a little from how much of a shitshow AO was devolving into during the period it played.

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>>15123685
your post is literally me.
That second ending was so good.
It actually made me tear up a bit when it was played in the final scene of the show.
There's just something about that song that makes me feel.

Seeing Ao go off into a world where he'll be alone was sad, and I'm surprised I wasn't more pissed off about how the series ended up, but I guess the song kinda just numbed that feeling for a while.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCumSl6gN-k

>>15118344
>2nd half of that second song

So fucking good. I miss the show, but fuck that ending.

Did anyone actually click OP's link? What's going on in Part A?

>>15123669

I can see if your definition of asspull is "This changed from the original draft", then of course it's an asspull.

On the other hand, if you feel it's appropriate to discard the fact that the Nirvash's entire role for the series is "Sup Renton, Coral got your back: Let's do some crazy shit." you need your head checked.

Hell, the damn thing just ended the 2nd cour finale with THE GUNS OF THE PATRIOTS!, and suddenly Coralians being fungible is too much to consider.

>>15123710
No subs so we don't know, but it's just Ao travelling through time/dimensions observing stuff in the nirvash neo

Honestly this episode wouldn't be a bad idea for a mecha series.
Just some homeless kid travelling through the galaxy with his mecha buddy that he also lives in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr4LDj1EIbk

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>>15117512
OP is a shitlord for not posting the HD image, I need a poster of this so badly.

>>15123787
Sorry, I didn't have it.
And I was posting from my phone.

Thanks for the image though, I don't think I've ever seen a larger version of it.
As for posters you might have to search ebay, or some Jap sites.

>>15123787
Man I wish I had been there at the time.
This poster must have been so misleading.
>Ao looks like he's standing on some trapar gorge trying to feel the trapars or something
>Nirvash neo on the liftboard although it barely rides one in the series

>>15123796
There's grass, not sure if that existed in the original. Is it me or is that the Type Zero's refboard? At least the comets mean something.

>>15123804
>There's grass, not sure if that existed in the original.
Renton's lifting/reffing spot was a field of grass, wasn't it?

>>15123622
Anon please, thats aofag, you're just wasting your time, did you not literally see him changing his argument just sop he could keep shitposting?

>>15123717
> just some homeless kid travelling through the galaxy with his mecha buddy that he also lives in.

So Gargantia on the move?