discuss

>>15113907
what would happened if Char dropped his revenge antics after/before killing Garma

>>15113908
He needed to keep going, if he killed just garma it would be worthless, and if he didn't kill garma he wouldn't be able to get at gihren and kyrcilla

>>15113907
>Ramba Ral
>do evil things
Name 1 thing he did, i'll wait.

>>15113907

Char's motives where fucking retarded.

a shallow villain who's at least honest is always better than a shallow villain that insists he's deep and complicated

>>15113917
He killed people. idk how many but probably a lot.

>>15113907
Haman should be shit-tier

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>>15113929
>wah killing people is bad

>>15113929
How is fighting for what you believe in evil? Furthermore after finding out that Artesia was still alive he straight up killed himself so her location wouldn't be revealed to the Zabis.

>>15113945
the whole thing is he didn't believe in it, he just did it to survive, he had to play soldier so the zabis wouldn't have him killed.

>>15113907
ramba ral was a good guy that happened to not be on the protagonist's team

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>>15113908
he would focuses more on looking for his imouto

>>15113908
>hurr durr revenge is bad
The unjust must be "corrected".

>>15113907
>shit tier

The whole point of villains is to hate their evil power crazed asses.

>>15113922
But Char wasn't honest?

He wanted to prove his superiority to Amuro on equal grounds because he was butthurt he got cucked.

And he wanted to force mankind to follow his father's ideas after being butthurt they didn't listen for years.

>>15113907
>villains can only be well-written if they literally aren't villains
I fucking hate this chart and I legitimately wish you would die.

>>15113959
He clearly enjoyed being a soldier.

>>15114042
>Char
>cucked
Stahp.

>>15114060
What bothers you about it? The word?

>>15114063
The fact that he wasn't cucked. If he was, Lalah wouldn't bother herself with self-sacrifice and convincing Amuro in Char's purity after her death.

>>15114131
So it's the word?
Do you really think there is absolutely nothing in the whole situation he could be angry and jealous about?

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>>15113907
I take great offense to this listing. Villain motivations do not inherently make them better or worse. Motivations are simply a mode of narrative. It's all about execution and you have to be a literary imbecile to not realize that.

>>15114163
He has the reasons to be angry and jealous, but cucoldry is not the one.

Is this a joke, Gihren is easily a better villain than Char, who seems wishy washy to a fault.

The problem with Gihren is that the show is anti-Gihren.

This problem is easily fixed in Gihren's Ambition.

>>15114174
It's just an emphatic exaggeration. Call it any way you want.

>>15114175
This is like saying the problem with Hitler is that RL is anti-Hitler, and that you should instead read Mein Kampf.

Reminder that the actual show compared Gihren to Hitler and he took it favorably, so any of you fags screaming about Godwin's Law can piss off.

>>15114246
Hitler is loathed and resented because his ideology claims that some castes of people are inherently inferior than others. In our day and age this is practically a taboo.
Gihren is simply a rationalist who saw dictatorship as the most practical way to rule people and himself as the best qualified person to do so. Even if we dismiss his methods as brutal and inhumane the underlying logic is solid.

>>15114175
Define wishy-washy.

>>15113907

Awful chart. Simply because embodies perhaps a glimmer of those motivations due to shitty character development and the only thing mattering to him being getting even with Amuro or being an egotistical jackass half the time.

>>15114301
>Hitler is loathed and resented because his ideology claims that some castes of people are inherently inferior than others.
Except Gihren did the exact same thing, elevating Zeon's people above everyone else.

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>>15114301
>saw dictatorship as the most practical way to rule people and himself as the best qualified person to do so.

These are not rational thoughts. His logic is anything but solid.

>>15114339
Why not? We could argue that technically there's nothing inherently wrong with dictatorship.

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>>15114301
>Hitler is loathed and resented because his ideology claims that some castes of people are inherently inferior than others.

Except that's what Gihren believed too. Did you even watch 0079, dumbass?

>>15114346
His main considerations are economical. He only uses Spacenoid supremacy as propaganda to secure his own rule. If his thinking is unethical it's not because he places Spacenoids above Earthnoids but because he places himself above other people. This however is not a part of his political ideology, So technically the only part that's wrong with his political ideology is that he resorts to brutality,coercion and propaganda which is admittedly not very cool but acceptable under the assumptions of Realpolitik.

>>15114345
Examples of successful dictatorships?

>>15114345
Reality says otherwise. You'd have better luck defending "real" communism

>>15114346
>that image
I like how he acts like he came up with some previously unheard of solution. What a thinker!

>>15114362
>encouraging racist belief in a superior race
>oh it's cool, it's just a scam to murder inconvenient people
How is this an improvement?

>>15114362
>implying everything wouldn't have been fucking fine if he'd just let Deikun-sama do his fucking job

BUT NOOOOOO

he just HAD to take the reins for himself and start his own fucking crazy train in space, and what's worse the guy looks back at fucking HITLER and goes YUP, THAT SEEMED TO TURN OUT JUUUUST FUCKING FINE, LET'S DO THAT, ALSO MAKE ME SOME SPACE ROBOTS BECAUSE I'M A GRANT FUCKING MANCHILD

Zeon would have been a fucking banana Republic before yu knew it, stop sucking the dick of your precious Space Gaddafi for a second and you might see the problems once you can see past his fucking pubes

>>15114369
Define successful.
>>15114370
Well, that's why I said "technically".
>>15114374
People in UC are not very good at history.

>>15114377
I didn't say it's more ethical. Just that it is more logically justifiable.
>>15114384
How did it turn out that I'm trying to defend Gihren? I'm just saying he is rational.

>>15114421
What was rational about murdering his father to keep him from negotiating a peace that could have let their increasingly outgunned nation survive?

>>15114449
Republic of Zeon best zeon, gas the zabis

>>15114449
That he didn't want to negotiate because he believed he can win.
wise=/=rational

>>15114463
His forces were being steadily pushed back, they had lost the resources war, and he was throwing what little they had left into impractical superweapons that were already gaining a reputation for being murdered by a single teenager. Attempting to prolong that farce seems neither wise nor rational.

>High
>villains who are good
>low
>villains who are evil
Are you a child?

>>15114518
>implying that OP created the chart.

>>15114518
Tragic villains will always be better than LOL I'M EBUL

>>15114563
LOL I'M SO MORALLY GREY BUT ULTIMATELY I'M EVIL BECAUSE OF MY LOGICAL FALLACIES

Great writing. SO DECONSTRUCTION.

>>15113908
he would have had so nice fuckboi ass to tap after the war

>>15114623
>implying that's even close to a tragic villain
That's just an edgy retard

>I'm not fighting for my country, I'm fighting for my men
>kidnapped spouse/daughter/son/love interest
>climbing the ranks to clean house and kick out the retards

This is what is good.

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>>15113932

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>>15113907

>Rau is still everything the Elder God and High tier description is

I'm not shocked

>>15114634
>I'm not fighting for my country, I'm fighting for my men
>kidnapped spouse/daughter/son/love interest
>climbing the ranks to clean house and kick out the retards
Except all of this can be, and have been, done terribly. Motivations do not determine the literary quality of a character. If you think otherwise, off yourself.

>>15114345
No, there is a problem inherent in dictatorships in that one man has unchecked power and if he's a nut, like Gihren, than everyone else is fucked.

Even if their is a benign dictator, he's going to die eventually and there's no guarantee that the next guy will be as good. Dictatorship's don't work on a technical level.

>>15114654
But they can preclude a character being good, outside of "so bad it's good" situations.

Quality of writing always takes precedence but some themes are just shit

>>15114693
>But they can preclude a character being good
No, you fucking retard.

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>>15114649
fuck yeah Rau is one hell of enjoyable villains

look at this handsome fucker

>>15113907
Then by that logic McGillis is a Elder God Tier villain.

>>15114173

This. There are tons of good villains whose motivations are simple, but their execution is so good that their simplicity is an asset rather than a hindrance.

OPs image is also REALLY narrow minded. As an example, it claims that any villain whose motivation is 'someone wronged me!' is by default high tier, when nothing about that motivation inherently makes that villain good. Anime is full of villains with that motivation who flat out suck, either because the thing that they feel wronged about is dumb or they are just poorly written in general.

OP's imagine ignores quality of implementation entirely as a factor, and thus is worthless.

>>15114702
Show me a good villain with shit motivation

This entire argument could have been avoided if someone had the brains to swap "villian" for "antagonist."

>>15114718
Patrick Bateman.

>>15114658
I'm just saying that there is inherently nothing morally wrong with wanting to establish a dictatorship as a primary motive, whether it is objectively a flawed form of government or not.
There is something inherently morally wrong with wanting to annihilate an entire caste of people only based on racial prejudice as a primary motive.
I was just trying to point out that people usually cite Hitler as the evilest man in history on the basis of the second assumption, which in our modern world is regarded as a taboo.
In present day popular culture if you dismiss someone as automatically evil by drawing parallels with Hitler this means you are trying to say that he committed something that would be regarded as a complete atrocity and perversion of human nature.
While lust for power, greed, corruption, violence and machiavellianism are universally regarded as bad they are accepted as the sad realities of war.
I was just trying to point out that the "literally worse than Hitler" reasoning is not applicable in this case.

>>15114742
>I'm just saying that there is inherently nothing morally wrong with wanting to establish a dictatorship
Morals may be subjective, but it's pretty common to view forcibly controlling a population without their consent as morally reprehensible.

>>15114718

Doctor Doom.

His pissing contest with Reed Richards is based on the most inane, petty shit. But Doom gets so wrapped up in it that it comes full circle and becomes his most glaring character flaw. Despite all his power, all his knowledge, and all his accomplishments... Doom still can't get over the fact that Reed is a prick that won't admit he is in the wrong. Not just can't, but outright refuses to let the matter lie.

>>15114747

Not him, but Doom is usually a pretty badly written character in my experience. I haven't read every story with him by any stretch, but a lot of writers seem to take him at face value or think buy in to his persona too much, so that he ends up a boring power house who tanks entire teams while sitting down before losing to the dumbest shit because they have to give an out to the protagonists in the finale and spent more time thinking about how cool he'd be defeating the good guys with no effort than how he was going to lose. Never mind that ngs like motivation or character.

>>15114713

No, just no. He's a delusional pedophile attempting to reignite the Calamity War to rid his government of corrupt individuals.

>>15113907
>wrong
>morally weak
>wrong
>retarded
>yeah
>realistic

>>15114843
If you aren't talking about Jack Kirby Doom, then just don't post. Besides, your personal opinion of Doom has nothing to do with it.

>>15114844
>pedophile
Citation needed.
>attempting to reignite the Calamity War
Literally the first thing he does when Tekkadan unearths something that caused the Calamity War is run out to Mars to try and stop them from activating it.
> to rid his government of corrupt individuals.
The one thing you got right, which is a bad motivation how again?

>>15114369
Rome
Greece
Britannia >implying
Japan

>>15114875

Yes, obviously my personal opinion has nothing to do with your personal opinion. And your personal opinion is of course objectively correct.

>>15116388
Dr. Doom is a widely acclaimed villain. Obviously, it's a successful example, no matter how you or I feel about it. You fucking moron.

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>>15113907
>Villains whose motives are hard to find fault in
>Char

Stopped reading there. Starting a list off like that that guarantees the other entries are just as stupid.

>>15114563
You're the kind of person who would put Kreia above Ganondorf on a villain tier list.