Best VF

>Anything from Delta
>Best

Best, as in?

>>15104870
design, ability

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>>15104873
>Design
Very subjective, but sure.

>Ability
The YF-29 can do what it can do on top of having superior specs.

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>>15104778
Official in the design sense, nah. Official in the ability sense? Even the special equipment on the Messiahs make them better. Also like >>15104876 says the Durandal is better all over, spec-wise.

I don't care if this thing to the side is fanart, this thing is forever my personal favorite, design wise.

>>15104778
The Siegfried does look pretty nice, but I'm still more partial to the Frontier and Plus designs.

>>15104778

Better then anything in F by a country mile but will never top the 19

>>15104778
Great taste OP

the Siegfried is tied with the VF-17 as my personal favorites

>>15104870
shittitude

>>15104778

I like it's design features, tonfa cannons and turret are logical progression from Frontier via VF-30 but elegant it is not. A variant is much more streamlined while Siegfried seems to have hero plane features added for simple sake of it being, well, hero's plane.

>>15104781
Kairos for Chronos/Evolution fanclub.
YF-19 for 'of all times' title.
>>15104876
>>Ability
>The YF-29 can do what it can do on top of having superior specs.
Yes, but
>cost
VF-31 is specifically described as a budget machine designed with all the cool tricks that were invented since Frontier, for fraction of the price. It's like export, stripped version of F-35.
Also, if I remember right translated stuff from older Macross threads, in atmosphere at least, Siggy is actually superior to YF-29.

>>15106237
Tornado and EX Nightmares were sexy as hell.

>>15106539
>It's like export, stripped version of F-35.
The F-35 is the export version of the F-35.
There is no stripped down version of an F-35.

>>15106555
Yes and only real world analog to NUNS monkey models of their super valks is old soviet hardware.
Still, comparison holds pretty well - VF-31 has everything that made post Frontier mecha great but streamlined, integrated and mercilessly hacked with budget cuts so it is cheap enough that it is competitive to whatever upgrade package is offered for Nightmares.
>>15106555
>no stripped down version
So, export versions come with ALL of the cool technologies developed in house specifically To give USA technological edge?
Sure.

>>15106606
>So, export versions come with ALL of the cool technologies developed in house specifically To give USA technological edge?
Yes?
You do know the JSF isn't solely US developed right?
That a large percentage of the technology in the plane was developed by BAE?
Its a multinational program.

>>15106606
>So, export versions come with ALL of the cool technologies developed in house specifically To give USA technological edge?
>Sure.
F-22 is the one that the Americans refuse to export. F-35 was designed from the outset to be an export fighter, where they allowed countries like UK and Canada to fund the program in exchange for "first dibs" on F-35 purchases.

>>15106539

There's not a lot of info available for the Siegfried (or Kiaros) yet, but from the little I'm seeing on the Macross Compendium it's only marginally better than a VF-25.

http://macross.anime.net/wiki/VF-31_Siegfried

It can travel Mach 5.5 in atmosphere compared to the Messiah's Mach 5, it's slightly lighter and can put out a small bit more thrust in space etc. The Durandal stomps it. Even in atmosphere the Durandal at least matches it at Mach 5.5, but can increase to Mach 10+ for brief periods.

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>>15106539
>variant is much more streamlined while Siegfried seems to have hero plane features added for simple sake of it being, well, hero's plane.
They did state that the reason it had forward swept wings was that it was meant to accompany Walkure as a combination airshow/bodyguard service, which would probably necessitate the high maneuvrability that FSW supposedly gives you.

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Best VF

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>>15104778
but that's not the VF-25
fuck off

>>15106738
Gerwalk form's garbage, unfortunately.

>>15106539
>designed with all the cool tricks that were invented since Frontier, for fraction of the price.
Let's be honest, the stock VF-25 matches the Siegfried's performance, and the whole fold wave relay thing the Siegfried has could be added to the Messiah via yet another option pack for the VF-25.

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>>15104778
>Best VF

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>That monoeye, delta-wings, forward facing laser gun, and paint job.
VF-31A is my favourite.

>>15107232
it looks so much better with monoeye and non gaudy colors

>>15107232
DX Chogokin VF-31A when

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>>15107262
You can say the same for a lot of designs.

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>>15107285
i like Alto colors for VF-25, it looks clean and simple compared to sigfried (the blue red white clash too much)

>>15106237

Nightmare EX >>> VF-31A >>>VF-25S/31S >>>>>>VF-31F >>>>>>>>>>>>VF-25F

>>15107232
Hello Nurse.

>>15107232
>best design
>barely featured in the shitshow that is Delta

>>15107297
>alto colors

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>>15107317
Agreed. After jobbing so hard in Frontier, it looked so cool in the first two episodes, when Delta still had buget.

>>15107486
I think the 171 benefited from the better color scheme it had in Delta.

Its a pretty good design in general.

>>15107486
Thou weren't those vanilla VF-171?

>>15106775
Yeah but muh new contracts.
Also, different design philosophy, whole Evolution project was based on modularity and various FAST packs, VF-27 notwithstanding, while Kairos is all-in-one package meant to be sold as replacement for VF-17. As in, you can buy one plane that can do everything you need, you backwater hellhole of a world.
>>15106708
And Walkure was way to show new merchandise and prove it's effectiveness.
I've mentioned it in previous threads and will repeat myself - Siegfried is, just like Durandal,a clusterfuck. High performance clusterfuck but still.
>>15106696
Yes but Durandal is expensive while VF-31 is a budget plane. Also, Durandal is pretty much at limits of Evolution derived airframe, while Siegfried is a new design that can be overtuned just as Messiah was.
Thou now pretty much ICS is the limiting factor of valkirie performance - and song/fold hack which seems to be doing some interesting thing with timespace.
>>15106634
I stand corrected and educated.
>>15106614
Is shouldn't be trying to be smart at four in the morning. Still, F-22/F-35 do work well as an analogy still.
>BAE
Ok, EF2000 works even better, I am an idiot.

>>15107486
>After jobbing so hard in Frontier
The Nightmare Plus jobbed a hell of a lot harder in Delta than it ever did in Frontier. Episode 1 was literally the only time we ever see one do anything useful.

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>>15107486
>jobbed
Considering they were obsolete even before episode one, they've managed pretty well, considering. And it was mostly pilots fault, as demostrated when Alto got one and went against Ozma. Pity frame isn't ICS compatible.

>>15107450
oh yeah what was his name again? gallahad? gilliam?

>>15104778
Too bad we barely saw it during the second half

>>15107666
If the only times it does something cool is when a named character is the pilot, I'd call it jobbing.

I wish the staff had used a 171 during Hyate's training, instead of modelling a VF-1 and not animating the transformation.

>>15107680
Rick Hunter.

>>15107655

I mentioned the Durandal specifically because in >>15106337 you said that the Siegfried is superior in atmosphere to the Durandal and I wanted to point out that there's no basis for that as far as I can see, since the Durandal has at the least the same possible maximum speed but can almost double that temporarily and has better acceleration. I know it's more expensive, but saying the Siegfried is better in atmosphere is untrue regardless.

So when's that movie coming out?

>>15107783

There's none announced as of yet and from interviews it looks like any movie they make might be about Wright Immelman and not a Delta summary or alternate take.

>>15107782
Valuing capabilities solely on thrust and max speed is what led to creation of F-104 - and it ended not exactly as planned.

>>15107785
>VF-22 and that windermere's F-104 something
YES.
Siegfried is better because for, presumably, fraction of the cost of Durandal offers comparable performance, without super or FASTpacks.
As for it being superior in pure atmospheric dogfight, again, secondary information from some materials translated in one of Delta's general.

>>15107782
I assume the YF-29 being heavier probably is one of the factor why its supposedly inferior in atmospheric conditions.

>>15107788

Siegfried doesn't have comparable performance to the Durandal outside normal atmospheric top speed. It has nearly twice as much thrust and can handle half as much g loads. Which is just going off the stats that we have. And I'm not valuing them, I'm comparing them since they're all we have. I'm not assigning any value to them beyond that they exist.

>>15107795

I'm not really seeing how that can matter when despite being nearly twice the weight of the Siegfried it is (a) still very light at only 15 tonnes or so, only heavy relative to the Siegfried and (b) it statistically has a higher thrust and maximum air speed.

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>>15107807
A heavier plane would be less agile than a light plane.

Then again, its Macross, where thrust vectoring and Gerwalk rule the skies, and the YF-29 could potentially swivel the wings(and the engines there) to maneuver through brute thrust alone.

>>15107807

If the Siegfried has any advantages over the Durandal in atmosphere it's probably in maneuverability rather than raw speed. The Delta wings making it better handling especially at low speeds as has been mentioned for instance. There's no stats for that kind of thing though really. Some other VFs have a rate of climb and such, which probably accounts partially for that, but doesn't measure it entirely.

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best VF piloted by best boy

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>>15108258

You got that right, my man!

>>15107816
>maneuver through brute thrust alone.
That's how all VFs maneuver. When you're rocking a 40+ thrust/weight ratio, aerodynamic maneuvering starts looking rather unnecessary.

So at this point, the only specs significant enough to really be worth noting are thrust/weight ratio, and thrust-vectoring capabilities. The Durandal exceeds the Siegfried in both categories.

>>15104778
>Bandai 1/72 VF-31J Siegfried

I'd have to agree it's currently the best VF Plamo from Bandai to date. I have built three of them (J,S and F Variants) and I really enjoy the way it goes together.

I'm currently considering getting a fourth one to customize into the VF-31A Variant.

>>15108467

Damn, you went through that sticker hell more than 3 times? That's an incredible level of patience you have there. I'm just holding out for a possible HMR toy release because building VF just seems like such a finicky affair.

>>15108755
https://youtu.be/wLazf8cU4Pk
Sell your car and get the DX.

>>15108755
>HMR
Just get the DX Chogokin.

How fast are valks compared to mechs from other shows, say MS from the Unicorn time period?

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>>15110024
really fuckin fast

>>15110024

Well... How many MS pilots can you name that liquefied themselves by flying 2fast2furious?

>>15110024
Well, the YF-29 has enough thrust to theoretically pull something like 60G of straight-line acceleration, and is agile as fuck. Things got pretty damn crazy once they started using ISC tech.

>>15110024
Most Valkyries can achieve escape velocity faster than a rabbit gets fucked. Nothing in Gundam comes even close until the Victory era.

>>15110024
Every VF except VF-1s from SDF era can make it to escape velocity under their own power.

Later VFs are equipped with ISCs and can take up to 50 to 60 Gs even with a pilot onboard.

VFs are so far above MSs specs wise (Even a lot of Gundams) that it isn't even funny. And barring shit like the YF-29, they are all mass production units.

>>15110319
>Every VF
I forgot the VF-0 and SV-51.
Those can't into space at all since they run on jet engines.

>>15108437
Except it was shown in Frontier, Delta and M30 that control surfaces play geat role in controlling a valk while in atmosphere. Only thing that uses brute force approach exclusively was X9. And animators went to great lenghts to show moving control surfaces in Delta. Also, notably, all those winglets and stuff do not move when they are, for example, fight in asteroid field.
Yes, thrust, vector nozzles AND vernier nozzles- which were capable of lifting plane form vertically since episode one of original Macross, thus having at least 1-1 thrust to weight ratio alone, play great role but you just can't disregard atmosphere. It resist.
Durandal has same basic configuration as Siegfried btw, forward swept wings plus cannards.
>>15107816
Sure but at MACH 4+ inertia is a bitch, as is air resistance. You could maneuver with pure thrust but thing about stresses of an airframe - again, doable in macrossverse, energy convertion armor is used as heatshield afterall, but inefficient. And since Kawamori is an engineer, elegant solution of combine maneuvering systems is most propable.
Also, fun fact - Messer flies as this anon >>15107816 describes. Everyone else, especially 'mu wind' users, are shown to be piloting in a smooth, vernierless style when around a planet.
>>15108467
>VF-31A Variant
And here I am, still waiting for YF-24 Evo.
>>15109820
300 dollars?
>>15110024
49+ plus of G is a norm for grunt units since Frontier, because of inertia dampening. Notably, Supernova era prototypes, YF-19 and YF-21, had similiar specs but lacked magical ICS, which led to 2fast2furious death of Gould in Plus. Omega one was fast enough to literally tear itself from heat stress - and that's with energy shields each valk have.
In addition, any valk with Fold Quartz have at least two cool tricks in it's sleeve.
First is overall boost, as described on Siegfred - 15% to stats I think.
Second, since Frontier, we have song buffs. It at least play tricks with pilots reaction times.

>cont
Alto perceives world in slow motion when under influence of songs, same with Hayate. We have to keep in mind thou that this is fictional in universe production, licentia poetica and all that. Only sure data we get are, again, in universe data files, which are what our Jane's is.
And on paper Durandal is indeed best, while shown performance in Delta is comparable.
>>15110329
Both are from preSDF era, you are right. And VF-1 can into space with dedicated booster, as can later iteration equipped with more efficient engines - afaik problem wasn't lack of thrust but not enough of reaction mass on board.

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>>15109820
>>15109913

Bu-but! They're actually going through with the VF-2SS sometime soon...! Surely this means that we'll be seeing the rest of the Valks in a matter of time, right?!

>>15110431
Let's count VFs.
>VF-4
>VF-9
>VF-11
>VF-14(Maybe?)
>VF-17
>VF-171/VF-171EX
>YF/VF-19 and its variants(Probably just the YF-19)
>YF-21/VF-22
>YF-24(Maybe not)
>VF-25
>VF-27
>YF-29
>YF-30
>VF-31
Its a long way, anon.

The DX Chogokins are worth the price.

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>>15110440

They already have molds for some of the VFs you listed on the back burner, so it won't take them all that long to get the ball rolling. And I'm not in a super big hurry for the 31 anyway, I need a 17 and 22 the most to accompany my Fire Valk.

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>>15104778
I'm going to be that guy

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>>15111537
>VF-2 Fighter mode
Sure, the B form looks nice, but...

>>15110047

Even in Victory most units are only capable of just over 4G of acceleration, with the possible exception of the V2. I say possible because while it never seems capable of much greater acceleration or speed than any of it's contemporaries it can apparently hit 20G of acceleration in space with the right conditions.

Meanwhile, if a VF-1 equips a Super pack, it's standard loadout gives about 6G of acceleration, since G and thrust to weight are apparently basically the same thing. A standard VF-1 is only capable of about 2.5G however. So while most Victory era units are better than SDF era standard VFs, if a Valkyrie uses a FAST pack it's capable of greater acceleration.

Mind you, that's just acceleration. In terms of speed VFs seems greater as well though, and often seem to cover greater distances than Gundam normally covers.

It's just a function of scope though. Gundam is and always has stuck to Earth and maybe celestial neighbours like Mars, with the exception if 00's epilogue, while Marcross started off on a journey back from Pluto to fight intergalactic alien invaders. Macross has greater distances to cover normally, so the units do it faster for narrative convenience.

>>15106708
Well. forwardswept wings makes it a W too

>>15111600
The fighter mode is the best mode

Those air intakes give it such a wonderfully wide and angular profile. It looks like something you'd pilot in a top down shooting game, and I really like it for that

>>15111995
Sure, until you look at it from literally any other angle, at which point the engine placement just looks really awkward. The legs can't fold cleanly into the plane like they do on every other VF, so you're left with these two huge pods just hanging under the plane with a big goofy block of empty space between them. The fuselage is really awkwardly shaped, too. The whole design just fails to come together in any cohesive way.

>>15108755
I actually used the waterslide decals. Its my favorite part of model making.

I find it really relaxing putting decals on stuff so these "Sticker Hell" kits are actually my favorite!

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>>15110024
Very very fast. Mobile Suits can't even leave the earth under their own power unless you use G Gundam units.

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>>15112083
Better example.

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>>15112083
>>15112087
You know, using in atmosphere examples feels like kicking already beaten oponent- nothing in Gundamverse can even aproach post-supernova valks - hell, VF-11 would be enough.
Might you have webm's from Delta - that first asteroid mission with Messer and Keith doing their Char impersonation?


Before anyone starts - yes, Unicorn is a valid contender. But then we will start comparing newtype magic to songbuffs and all will go to hell.

>>15110024
A good thing to remember is this - linear acceleration is relatively simple -SR-71 is a good example, as it was designed pretty much with a pencil and a ruler.
Now, when you have to change vectors rapidly, things start to get interesting.
Because, in space you eighter can't do it easily or when your tech base allows for carefree use of thrusters, pilots endurance limits you to about 15Gs of somewhat constant acceleration with milisecond bursts for dodging. Only 00 suit had inertial dampeners?

>>15112261
I don't recall 00's suits actually having dampeners, but the way GN propulsion is described seems to imply that it innately dampens G-forces.

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>>15112261

>>15113861
Thank you.
>>15110024
this is what I've had on my mind yesterday. Compare with Char or Full Frontal and remember that here, this is a newbie pilot doing the hopping.

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>>15112274
All the suits in 00 have dampers iirc.
Graham purposely removed the ones on his custom to reduce weight, that's what was causing the internal bleeding stuff.

普通のだと返り討ちにするからヤラレメカだから性能をギリギリまで削ったんだよ

>>15114014
Issue with Valks though compared to MS is a valk will take a couple of hits from that gunpod and blow. remember that pod is only a 58mm in Frontier, all gundam machine guns list on average no lower than 90. And remember in gundam, even UC, beam spam is a thing. A beam weapon kiss on one solid hit pretty much universally, (minus BS plot armor or newtype juju)

As an air superiority craft the VFs ahve MS beat hands down except shit from like 00 and the teleport bs. On the ground or in space, yeah go watch the shit Char was doing in Origin 2's opening at Loom, looks remarkable like this >>15113861
And that's not counting WMD machines like GP02 or newtype units, bits and funnels have no need to worry about Gs. Nor do mobile dolls for that matter.

>>15113861
I think AGE had G Dampeners too,
Hell these two are doing more aggressive maneuvering that the VFs in the clip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnGfA1K8w9s

>>15106708
when your paying more attention to the singers than the aircraft or even that main charas, something is wrong with your show.

For proper Macross go watch Plus or Zero, hell Frontier was even better than this.

>>15114766

I do wish people would stop assuming that a beam is the be all and end all because it's a beam. Putting aside that various plot armour to mitigate are everywhere in Gundam and have been for years, beams were a thing in Macross from the start and Zentradi battlepods used them in SDF without making much difference because they're not an automatic win button. Several VFs had them pre-Delta too, like Hikaru's VF-4 Lightning III. And VFs have been packing pin-point barriers since what...Frontier? regardless.

>>15114863
>since what...Frontier?
Plus.

>>15104781
Just because Delta sucks ass doesn't mean the designs do. The Siegfried is a very nice looking planefu. The kit itself is better than Messiah's kit imo.

>>15114869

So they did. I thought they only had the solid shields in Plus and 7 for some reason.

>>15107785
What a bunch of fucking idiots.

>>15114766
>couple of hits from that gunpod and blow
Ok. In Delta, Hayate tanked two full clips from VF-17/117 gunpod and haven't blown.
In Plus, we have long dogfight between Isamu and Gould with many near and not so near misses. Again, nothing except some FASTpacks, have blown. In Frontier, same thing really.
Valkiries are using two defensive systems - Pin point barrier is the usual energy shield. Second is system that uses reactors power to reinforce frame and armor of valks - but it is mentioned here and there that it only really works when in batroid and to a lesser extend, GEARwalk, thus explaining the 'and blow' part. Also, note that both systems are dependable on engines and their spare power - mooks literally have weaker shields as well as no plotarmor.
By the way, this also explains ridiculus power ratings of post Supernova valkiries.
>>15114807
Oh, don't even start. Psychological aspect of combat was present since SDF. Thou I agree, nothing beats Ranka's birthday present.
>>15114869
And energy conversion armor since Zero. Plus some cool things on FASTpack variants.
>>15114863
Also, Macross does have anti-beam coating as well.
>>15114863
Also worth nothing is that there are many diferent beam weapons in Macross. And most of them aren't even beams by definition - Macrosses use some space warping things, Quarter was literally twisting timespace ffs.
Vf-4 and 14 and variants from 7 had secondary beam weaponry and VF-27 has heavy quantum beam gunpod - which is exactly what? Cause it is not magnetically contained plasma for sure.
>>15114880
Agreed. Kairos is personal preference but then, I am in love with Chronos-chan.
Also, Delta is mediocre. If it was bad, really bad, it would have been second Seven. As it is, after episode 13, it just went meh. Thou infodumps were nice, I think.

>>15115266

A heavy quantum beam is basically a miniature version of the main cannons on SDF class ships. It distorts space, causing that space to rip apart on a fundamental level along a linear path. You can see an explanation for it at

http://www.macross2.net/m3/macrosspedia/macrosspedia-index.html#h

It's probably not a beam weapon technically. There's only been a few times that anything has tanked a hit from a heavy quantum gun. The Vajra Queen did it, and so did one of the Protodeviln I think. It requires throwing up a shield using the same kind of spatial distortion as the gun itself in most cases though if I recall.

Also, the beam guns on the VF-4 Lightning III weren't secondary. It used two mounted directly to the main body as it's primary weapons, but even the optional gunpod it could equip was a beam gun as well. The Glaugs, Regulds and so on in the original SDF used a variety of beam weapons, like electron beam guns, pulse guns and liquid plasma guns. The electron beam guns were even the main guns on tte Reguld.

>>15114807
Plus and Zero were both mediocre character and storywise. They're better than Delta but only because the mecha action is stellar. Frontier and SDF are the best examples of what Macross is all about.

Speaking of best representations of Macross, we should go back to bringing culture to Zentraedi. Gundam goes back to Zeon, why can't we go back to killing and/or fucking giants? Wasn't that the fucking point of VFs to begin with?

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>>15114880
I think the Seigfried has one of the best looking Super packs in the series.

>>15115266
>Thou infodumps were nice, I think.

Man, you are a fucking idiot.

>>15115540
Kawamori actually likes to try new things and not reuse the same damn factions over and over. They already did the culture thing before.

>>15114766
>Issue with Valks though compared to MS is a valk will take a couple of hits from that gunpod and blow. remember that pod is only a 58mm in Frontier, all gundam machine guns list on average no lower than 90. And remember in gundam, even UC, beam spam is a thing. A beam weapon kiss on one solid hit pretty much universally, (minus BS plot armor or newtype juju)
Why do Gundam fans always bring up caliber size when talking about other mecha shows? You do know that the caliber sizes are grossly inaccurate in Gundam right?

Take for example the barrel of the RX-78's vulcan gun. It's listed as a 60mm gun but the barrel is the exact same size as a real world 28mm gun. That makes no damn sense. The only caliber that makes sense is the Zaku's 120mm gun and even then it doesn't mean much. You need to consider rate of fire and penetration.

Beams also don't mean much since they're pretty common in Macross and VFs have been shown to tank beams on occasion. Hell, the VF-25 was shown to defend itself from a beam cannon shown previously to sink battleships in one shots. Maybe you should actually watch the shows you pretend to know about instead of playing SRW.

>>15117136
you forgot this

http://www.macross2.net/m3/macrosstechman/tech-gunpod.html

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>>15117189
>>15117136
Well, caliber by itself does not equal penetration or energy transfered. Gunpod are fed specialized munition types, Frontier's MDE is one example - a literal mini black hole is contained withing each projectile. Post Frontier mecha are supers in all but name only, especially when a songstress or two are involved. This is an universe where planet buster is described as a simple, easy to build device the size of a compact car. Where capital ships can shoot trought a planet with their main armament. Or punch other ships.
Time travel is possible and canonical*. Surfing on pieces of wreckage with a capital ship.
Space Whales. Ok, AGE had that one as well, I think.
>>15117129
Which is great, as one can expect something new with each installment while still getting familiar setting and triangle of war, song and love. Delta failed here with doing idols for a second time but even that was something new - last time there was an idol band, it was in Seven.
>>15115863
Compare Isamu's new ride. VF-25 with Tornado pack is still doing more warm things to me thou.


*at least as much as animated entries. Yeah.

>>15117136
>VF-25 was shown to defend itself from a beam cannon shown previously to sink battleships in one shots

Thou to be honest Ozma's Messiah has done that with Armored pack, which does carry extra generators and shielding. Still, it did tanked that shot, remained functional and no NEWTYPE magic was needed.

>>15117622

> Frontier's MDE is one example - a literal mini black hole is contained withing each projectile.

Each bullet or projectile doesn't actually contain a black hole, they're just have the ingredients and technology to generate one upon impact.

> Post Frontier mecha are supers in all but name only,

Depends on how you define a super, but personally I wouldn't say it is since being powerful isn't the defining trait of a super and Frontier or Delta are no more silly in themselves or their use of VFs than SDF itself was.

> Where capital ships can shoot trought a planet with their main armament.

I don't think that's ever been show, stated or even implied. A planet could easily be too big or dense for a heavy quantum beam to penetrate through to the core of and destroy.

> Space Whales. Ok, AGE had that one as well, I think.

SEED had space whale fossils in one scene. It was an oddity even in the show and never went anywhere or even came up again though. It was a completely pointless scene.

> last time there was an idol band, it was in Seven

Fire Bomber are in no way, shape or form idols. They're just a band. Between SDF, Frontier and Delta I think Kawamori has given the franchise too much reliance on pop and I think it'd be nice to see the next entry, regardless of movie, OVA or TV show use a different musical genre like Plus, Zero and 7 did.

> Compare Isamu's new ride

I don't think the pack really works with the wing shape and destroy it's aesthetics personally.

>>15117777
>Fire Bomber are in no way, shape or form idols
Hummingbirds? NUNS unit that were using VF-11's. Agreed again on genre - then again, pop sells.


Ok, I've went a bit to far with macross cannon.

>>15117777
>Each bullet or projectile doesn't actually contain a black hole, they're just have the ingredients and technology to generate one upon impact.
>>15117777
Tried to simplify - thou effect remains same eighter way.
>>15117777
>I don't think the pack really works with the wing shape and destroy it's aesthetics personally.
But it is clear inspiration and indication of a 'hero's ride'. VF-19 looks best without addons <Nothung> .
Siegfrieds boosters look unbalanced for me - over/under wing configuration seem like a better idea not only aesthetically - one would presume that you want thrust vectors close to center of gravity, not to mention structural stress on wings. As much as Isamu's new VF-19 looks missmatched, those are Messiah's boosters afterall, it does makes more sense from engineer standpoint. They do leave hardpoints for ordnance but Armored packs for VF-25 allowed for external pylons as well.


>>15117777
>Depends on how you define a super
When your machine is starting to warp timespace so it can dodge beams, that makes me stop and think about definitions for a bit. Valkiries aren't supers but their capabilities are
what a super would use. Same thing happened with ARX-8 in FMP - Clarke's three laws and all that comes with them. Also, let's not forget that Macross series are in universe entertaiment shows.

>>15117980

> Hummingbirds

Oh, them. Yea, they were an idol band. Saying it the way you did implied you were on about the main band though I guess. Hummingbird had very little focus in 7 as well really.

> it is clear inspiration and indication of a "hero's ride"

What is? I've never really gotten what Kawamori or other people mean with that to be honest. The VF-1 seems as heroic as any other main character VF, and there were dozens of them in several colors.

> When your machine is starting to warp timescape so it can dodge beams

A pin point barrier you mean? They've been in the setting since the start, and VFs have been using them since Plus. Beyond a pin-point barrier I'm not even sure what you could be referring to.

> that makes me stop and think about definitions for a bit

I'd classify things more along a heroic/military split than a super/real one personally, and say that Basara's Fire Valkyrie was the most heroic since it was a highly customized one off machine with a look and loadout no-one else used. Even the VF-31's Delta Squad used are a limited production run of VFs with little to no difference between them and treated more like tools than characters, so I wouldn't be classing them as supers at all personally.

I will not buy anything from Delta I swear

>>15114766
VFs are only relatively fragile because of the shit they deal with.
Offensive firepower wise, Macross is pretty damn high on the list, things like Dimension Eater weaponry and the Macross Cannons, along with the logistical ability to mass-produce them and have proper QC.
Even if we're just limited to VF weapons, MDEs are still available, if not Reaction missiles, then there's the beam weapons which include the Heavy Quantum beam that the 27 and 29 have(Same shit that the Macross Quarter shoots out of its Macross Cannon), electron beam cannons, etc.
VFs rely more on their speed and agility to dodge more than outright tanking, note how rarely Armor Packs are used compared to Frontier where one can make full use of its armor on top of using the speed and agility thanks to the transformable armor pack as opposed to losing the speed, agility and ability to transform from the older Armor packs.

>>15114766
Reminder the Gouf Custom's 35mm gun was able to destroy MP Guntanks even though they had Luna Titanium armor like the Gundam. Caliber doesn't mean shit.

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>>15104778
That's not what Skull 1 looks like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57Ytz8aCtNQ

>>15123777
>robotech art and video
epic

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>>15123777
Did someone say Skull 1

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>>15123777
Best Skull 1