What went wrong?

Everything

nothing

>>15101583
The training wheels come off and Fukuda stopped copying 0079 meaning he had to come up with stuff himself.

>>15101583
Nips loved it, so nothing really.

class war portrayed as race war.

>>15101681
>class war
>when the ones leading both sides of the conflict were filthy rich and influential

>>15101583
Shinn didnt kill Kira

>>15101892
If Kira had killed Shinn during the Archangel's first intervention, how much better would the show have been?

>>15101583
The fujo base.

>>15101583
Destiny didn't win.

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>>15103322

i like you

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Meer took that bullet for Lacus.

I know it's wrong to just say everything but it's such a cluster fuck of both big and small problems adding up to one gigantic mess

>>15103489
Hey, everything up to break the world and the immediate aftermath was great. Better than early Zeta, I'd say.

Do you remember the hype from the first episode, where shinn shows up with his big fucking sunrise sword and says "YOU ASSHOLES TRYIN' TO START ANOTHER WAR?"

>>15103495

It wasn't without it's good elements and with better care it could have been at least on par with Seed but it just, everything I hear about the show behind the show was a nightmare

>>15103523
Yeah, I've heard the same.

it was made

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>What went wrong?
we're still talking about it...


And still can't let go.

>>15103322

Yes. In the final fight between them, instead of Athrun beating Shinn, he actually tries to shield Luna and dies (or at least badly trashed and injured) in the process.

Seeing Athrun do this makes Shinn question his resolve. Instead of Rey pulling a 180, he stays loyal, and it's Shinn who turns to help Kira. Durandal gives Rey a Destiny Impulse and final fight is between him and Shinn.

>>15103642

see that's an okay idea and all but we still need to actually establish Druandal as a proper villain and not just someone Team Kira disagrees with because....future?

>>15101583
>What went wrong?
Fukuda and Morosawa.

>>15103618
It will always be discussed.
Until the end of time itself.

>>15104517
What more do you need? Cackling and wringing his hands while talking to himself about his evil plan? Maybe summoning a demon and making a deal with Satan?

If you can't see the mountain of cues that Gil was a manipulative liar about EVERYTHING it's because you just don't want to see it. They couldn't have possibly telegraphed it any harder than they did without going into human sacrifice rituals.

>>15104584

How about doing something actually evil. You can have all the cues you want but without actually evil actions you don't have much to stand on. Pretty much everyone but Orb agreed with his ideas and even voted on it. Sure there was the assassination attempt but out heroes have no real evidence he was behind it.

he was so poorly implemented as a the villain they literally had to have a deus ex machina notebook about him going HAH HAH HAH I AM TEH EVIL. It doesn't matter how many cues I see but how many cues the world and characters see.

This is one of the core problems with the entire Cosmic Era.

>>15104594
>something actually evil
Like sending special forces to assassinate a pop star?
Or forcing totalitarian micro-management of everyone's lives?
What about ginormous doomsday weapon development?

Again, what more do you need? Eating babies?

>>15104632
>Like sending special forces to assassinate a pop star?

No proof

>Or forcing totalitarian micro-management of everyone's lives?

Everyone voted and was cool with it

>What about ginormous doomsday weapon development?

What about Strike Freedom and other nuclear powered arms that Lacus had

>>15104634
>No proof
-The show outright states the assassins are Coordinators.
-They're piloting ZAFT's latest amphibious infiltration suits. Yes, CE suits (that are special snowflake Gundam prototypes, at least) are stolen all the time, but:
-Said suits are self-destructed when the mission fails. If they were stolen then NOT blowing them up would heighten any false-flag suspicions; only ZAFT would benefit from trying to hide their origins.
-Durandal starts publicly showing off a body double of the person that has just had an attempt on their life made right around the same time.

Anything else would involve an all-Coordinator team, capable of stealing ZAFT's latest models en masse, with prior knowledge of where Lacus is residing and motivation to go after her when she's effectively retired from public life.

Blue Cosmos hates Coordies too much to actively use them that hard and GSD refuses to let them be competent, and Orb really doesn't have the throbbing hateboner to bother or the resources to make it work.

It's shitty and circumstantial evidence, even by CE standards, but it's there and points right at Durandal.

>Everyone voted and was cool with it
Scandinavia and Orb outright said no, everyone else was 'looking it over' and hadn't committed either way, even before he whipped out the death lasers.

>>15104657
>-The show outright states the assassins are Coordinators.

Which means fuck all when there's millions of em. Or tens of thousands. I don't think it ever gave a population

>-They're piloting ZAFT's latest amphibious infiltration suits. Yes, CE suits (that are special snowflake Gundam prototypes, at least) are stolen all the time, but:
>-Said suits are self-destructed when the mission fails. If they were stolen then NOT blowing them up would heighten any false-flag suspicions; only ZAFT would benefit from trying to hide their origins.

Does not mean Gilly did it. It could just mean any number of power player is at work. People below him maybe people on their own government, who the fuck knows.


>-Durandal starts publicly showing off a body double of the person that has just had an attempt on their life made right around the same time.

Yeah well maybe if Lacus didn't fuck off to play Virgin Mary he wouldn't need to hire a stand in to calm people down after a major race war.

>Scandinavia and Orb outright said no

So literally nobody.

And once more, you're missing the point. Even if the show makes it clear to you and me that he's evil the characters in the show have to go on more than just

>Grrr I don't like his politics and how dare a military arm itself

The major issue is that Kira and Lacus just knew to disagree with the badguy because they're perfect and great. That's bad writing. Amurao had a personal beef with Zeon, Judau had cause to go at Glemy and Haman. Loran knew exactly what Gym was playing at. These conflicts make sense.

>>15104658
>Which means fuck all when there's millions of em. Or tens of thousands. I don't think it ever gave a population
Annnd how many of them are willing to kill and die in anyone's name but ZAFT's? OMNI is still full of idiot racists and a lot of Orb's bailed the country after the last invasion and probably moreso after they became all buddy-buddy with said racists.

>Does not mean Gilly did it. It could just mean any number of power player is at work. People below him maybe people on their own government, who the fuck knows.
That the show never, ever fucking shows off. This is not a subtle or mysterious show; if someone was up to something they would, you know, exist.

>Yeah well maybe if Lacus didn't fuck off to play Virgin Mary he wouldn't need to hire a stand in to calm people down after a major race war.
Funny, they managed just fine for two years after SEED.

>So literally nobody.
And literally everyone else had NOT said 'yes', either. There were solid 'no's and a whole fuckton of 'what are we looking at' before Durandal began lasering people.

>And once more, you're missing the point.
They had
>this guy very likely tried to MURDER us
>is up to some really shady shit
>is inciting citizens to murder LOGOS (who, to be fair, deserved it, but that's not on the up-and-up)
>and oh yeah, we found his SUPER SECRET NOTEBOOK

Even through all of that Team Kira wasn't SURE they were 100% doing the right thing. The show made this pretty clear. Did you actually remember the show or are you just parroting forum memes after the fact? None of this shit was well-done, don't get me wrong, but it WAS there.

>>15104667

Oh my Christ. Im not saying Gill's not the bad guy you retard. Im saying and pay attention that the show doesn't do a good job presenting him as such in a way that makes sense. He's just the badguy because he's not Kira. The end.

For as anyone in the universe is concerned he's just a radical politician. For Kira to wage war on him requires meta knowledge. You can't have your characters act on knowledge only the viewer knows that's bad writing.

>>15104674
I didn't say you did, genius; you keep harping about 'NO EVIDENCE' and bullshit and I was refuting that. It's poorly done, yes, but it's fucking there.

You'd have to deliberately misrepresent what the show spoonfeeds you to say it was pure meta.

>>15104676
>you keep harping about 'NO EVIDENCE' and bullshit and I was refuting that. It's poorly done, yes, but it's fucking there.

There's not. Anything they have is at best circumstantial. Correlation is not causation and without any physical evidence to go after Gil they have no logical reason to do so.

>Gil has a Lacus of his own therefore anyone who attacks Lacus is on gil's side

Is not solid evidence and mobile suit thefts are easy enough to explain. There's no testimony, no material and nothing to go on beyond their own perceived motives

>>15104678
>circumstantial
Like, finding Durandal's super secret notebook (which is retarded, but DID HAPPEN)? Durandal having people go after Athrun when his usefulness was up? Meer's Durandal-appointed handler taking shots at Lacus on the moon? Durandal fucking SPACE LASERING PEOPLE?

Note that they're just 'suspicious' of him until literally all of the above happens; they don't actively go for him or ZAFT until all that, even after the assassination attempt or Angel Down or the second Orb Invasion. ALL OF THAT happened. And they STILL had doubts (except after the murder lasers, I suppose).

Why do you keep trying to force this 'it's meta/because THEY'RE DA GOOD GUYZ' narrative when even Destiny doesn't?

>>15104657
This plus all the ominous music they would play, whenever he would pester Athrun about where the Archangel was. He was voiced by Char, it doesn't get more obvious than this.

>>15104685
Durandal WAS big on genes determining your role in society. Who is he to not follow the lead his genes giving him such a sexy, evil voice?

>>15104688
*the lead of his genes

>>15104684
>Like, finding Durandal's super secret notebook (which is retarded, but DID HAPPEN)?

Which was a retarded plot convenience tossed in at the last second to give the heroes something to go on. That's a beyond miraculous discovery.

>Durandal having people go after Athrun when his usefulness was up?

You mean after Athrun was showing signs of treason like smacking Shinn around for beating an enemy and meeting in secret with Kira?

>This plus all the ominous music they would play

Oh my christ. And we're back to meta information. For the third time, The problem isn't that WE don't know he's evil the problem is that the universe doesn't establish it to the characters in universe.

The notebook was fucking magic and Athrun was a treasonous bitch. I am not talking about the show I am talking about the writing. Why is this hard for you to get. A voice actor doesn't mean the character is evil to the people who have no clue who the character they also voice would even fucking be.

>>15104700
Don't lump the music/VA thing in with my post, sweetheart.

Though the fact you fucking took it as anything other than a smartass reply says it all.

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>>15101583

>>15104703

The fact that you think sarcasm works vis toneless text says more.

>>15104707
So this is what talking to autism is like.