/mgg/ - Mecha Games General

>>15040182
Those cost multipliers are insidiously brutal.
A little re-entry system here, a little desert protection there, and next thing you know you're pedaling backwards.

>>15040191

Yeah, the multipliers are what cause the most cost inflation. True for weapons too.

>>15040191
A lot of them really aren't worth it. Turbochargers especially are insanely expensive and don't last long enough to be useful unless you know for absolute certain that you're on the very last round of the combat. If an enemy reinforcement shows up, you might as well have been shot down. Techno-Organics, Cockpit Controls, Powerplant and ACE are the most valuable uses of cost multipliers.

>>15040226
The turbochargers felt wrong, yeah. I remember a similar problem with the emergency boosters in Heavy Gear as well: you quickly explode the misc. threat value in design, but you're basically getting ONE system boosted for, I think it was ONE turn, and after that it's burnt out...

I'm rather surprised, it seems to be a common theme in the vehicle designs, that they're massively overcost.

I suspect it might be worth it if you're in the insane 2000+ point values though, at which point another +0.75 might not be as bad as adding another 10cp (and then multiplying it by 20x) would?

Not entirely certain though.

Anyone seen "Backland Stride" recently?

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>>15040182
Just a heads up if you're into leji matsumoto and battleships etc from the depths might scratch that itch.

>>15040256
If you're in those point values it shouldn't be hard to be at MV 0, which makes a lot of the vehicle forms lose their appeal. At that point you become better off building a Remote to serve as a riding platform if you really need something to provide more movement speed. Pretty much none of the vehicle forms are worthwhile.

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>>15040275
You can build spaceships but most of the action happens in the sea.

>tfw mecha shows park their spaceships on water

stop it boner

>>15040275
Wait what the hell is this and where can I snort it?


>>15040306
That [gun] form, though? When they say scale, do they indeed mean "x10 damage, range squared"?

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>>15040409
from the depths it's on steam.

>>15040409
They do, yeah. A Gun Form is pretty outrageously powerful, especially if the unit already has a big gun with something like Hex, which is why it's listed under Stupid Mekton Tricks instead of being listed with the regular transformations.

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>>15040475
Although at low point values you'll pretty much be limited to turning that 2 damage into a 20 (still nasty though)... So maybe megabeam is cheaper?

This is tickling my optimization senses better than pathfinder ever could that's for sure.

... Although perhaps I'm not the most biped-oriented guy.

Mekton Z didn't seem to be constructed with the finest eye for rules lawers and power gamers, so I'm sure there are tons of point-cost hax, loopholes, and other exploitables in the Z+ MTS.

>>15040550
Megabeam is certainly tasty, but I think you generally get equal results for cheaper out of a decent Burst Value, especially if you also want to combine it with Wide-Angle Hex so you can hit a lot of targets at once.

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>>15040577

Looking at MZ+, building the ultimate beam weapon (at scale x1) would give us a 20K beam with a Range of 54 hexes (maximum range of 2916 hexes, or 145km), +3 Accuracy, infinite shots with no warm-up time, that can fire in all directions at once with an infinite burst value, applying the Megabeam effect (hits all locations) and is all-purpose (usable against mecha, personnel, and missiles) and can Disrupt force fields and beam shields.

So yes, you too can own a beam weapon that has +3 to do 20K to every target anywhere around you, out to 145km, hitting every location multiple times (based on your margin of success), penetrating forcefields and beamshields, and shooting down missiles and roasting personnel to boot... all for a mere 1008 Construction Points.

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>>15040867
Seems legit.

Also, I just noticed the book contains a sample machine that goes up to over 12,000 points from stacking cost multipliers. Yowch.

>>15040902

I'd actually build Zeorymer at x10 Scale. 200K ultimate beam weapon!!!

>>15040867
Doesn't Wide or Blast basically vaporize the personnel though?

There's rules about "when some poor fucker's scurrying for his life and mechs are shooting each-other" in there somewhere.

I might be wrong, but it looks like a pod with an active shield is better just being a pod with an active shield and a gun in its other half than what you'd get from, say, making it into a binder.

Actually Binder seems only to be of value to a Standard Shield.

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>>15040902
FTL, V-Max systems, Teleportation, Transformation are all big cost multipliers. It adds up very fast.

A good spread for a more regular unit can easily run + x0.3 to x0.6 (space/underwater/re-entry/vtol, a virtual cockpit and an overcharged reactor puts the little fighter design I'm toying with at .45)

However, for a very cheap fairly effective 20k, a damage 2 beam cannon with Wide Hex and Burst 2 combined with a Gun Form can certainly put a fuckton of hurt on the normal scale.

Backup Generators for a turbocharger are probably a nasty trap. You can probably get its post-discharge performance to where it would be with backup generators simply by pouring those points into the basic model's capabilities.

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So I've been working on transferring a gunpla of mine into Mekton. Handling most of the functions is simple enough, but I've been having a bear of a time with the C-Funnels since they're supposed to be very flexible. It seems like handling them as an Energy Pool might work to cover the barrier function, but I can't quite figure out how to get them to work as an attack if I do that.

Pilots and mech damage. How do systems handle it? Do most mechs have location based damage. Can a pilot be hurt without their mech taking substantial damage? Are there devices that target specifically the pilot? Are there rules for depressurisation or fires if need be? Do some mecha games account for things like ammo cooking off or fuel becoming explosive?

>>15041483
>Pilots and mech damage. How do systems handle it? Do most mechs have location based damage.

All combat in Mekton (personal and mecha) is location-based.

>Can a pilot be hurt without their mech taking substantial damage?

Yeah, there are electrical Shock weapons whose zaps harm the pilot rather than the mech.

>Are there devices that target specifically the pilot?

Cockpit hit is a possible result of random critical damage, and an attacker can make a called shot to the cockpit at nontrivial penalties.

>Are there rules for depressurization or fires if need be?

...Hmmmm. Not as such. Not that I can remember.

>Do some mecha games account for things like ammo cooking off or fuel becoming explosive?

I think Battletech does that. Heavy Gear/Silhouette might do it too.

>>15041167

One option is to build them as an energy pool, yeah -- one mode would be a beam shield, the other mode would be an automated EMW, I'd say.

Another option would be to build them as regular Remotes -- small units with EMWs built in, and a beam shield system which has been Split (page 14 of MZ+) among all the remotes.

>>15041483
>>15041575
>Do some mecha games account for things like ammo cooking off or fuel becoming explosive?

There's an ammo explosion special result in Mekton as well.

Which do people prefer, grid or hex based games that rely on models being moved for specific tactics or games where the majority of the game is played out in the imagination?

A combination of the two?

How much mech modification-to-rules-application is ideal? Do systems favour tweaking a billion different pieces of equipment or can mechs work on a rule of cool basis (AKA how crunchy are ttrpg mechs)

>>15041610

Personally, I don't like mapped, hex-based combat in RPGs -- that's wargaming. Most combatants in most battles just don't have a God's-eye view of the battlefield. It's such a huge tactical advantage, it really takes away from the roleplaying experience.

Although, to be fair, in mecha combat it's more believable -- that's a pretty high-tech battlefield.

I like a high amount of crunch and customization for mecha construction -- you want how the mech was built to make a difference during play. However, rule of cool is always my priority.

>>15041483
>Do some mecha games account for things like ammo cooking off or fuel becoming explosive?

If you consider from the depths a mecha game then yes, ammo being hit, bot in stoarage and in the racks connected to your guns is a major part of the game

the shells are up to 500mm wide and 8 meters long so you don't want them to get hit. You can actually design your weapons with ammo ejectors to throw the shells out in an emergency. They're still live so you have to be mindful where to eject them.

>>15041483
Depends on the system.
In battletech, "head" (cockpit) hits are a very small and rarely hit location, but the armor there is thin as fuck and a good hit can net you a minimally damaged shiny new mech that only needs the inside hosed down and a new seat.

In Silhouette (heavy gear, jovian chronicles), crew damage is a result of certain structural hits; when the shit starts buckling around you. This ranges from mere crew-stunning to actual damage to "critical crew compartment failure: 75% casualties minimum 1" (the gruesome kind)...

Hilariously, the top structural failure result under that system is a total structural collapse with NO casualties (other than possible death by environment depending on where you are): It's easy to picture that one as leaving some poor shmuck surrounded by disassembled pieces just holding the wheel confused.

>>15041483
>>15041483
Ammo/Fuel issues are common to both Silhouette and Battletech. In the latter's case, you could technically overheat a reactor to actual death or meltdown - though death (the pilots tend not to wear that much for a reason; they're sitting on something...) by "pilot cooking off" generally happens first.

The Former effectively has it as its "critical hit" table: We're looking at Heavy damage hits (at least twice your current armor) with a 6 on location here (because it's 7+). If you're lucky you just lose a weapon or get your fuel-tank/battery blown out or maybe your reactor just found itself fifty feet away and your mech just stops dead and powerless. Climb out, kick it a few times, bitch a lot, and try to get a new ride or at least one back to base.

But there's the last few results, where the word "chain" rears its ugly head. You know. Chain something something... in relation to ammunition and/or fuel. You know.

When a vehicle is overkilled in Silhouette (HG/JC) you have your ejection system with a good chance of kicking in, or even without one you have a chance of crawling out.

Ammo/Fuel Chain Explosion is *NOT* an overkill.

*The End*

>>15041575
Not sure for BT, but depressurization is included in the various structurals when applicable for Silhouette and Mekton. In the former it's actual crew compartment failures that even if survived will leave you exposed to space or the deep sea; hope you were equipped for that. In the latter, it seems to be any kind of torso damage through the armor (or whatever location your cockpit's in) that causes exposure, according to the various environmental rules.

>>15041610
Best is when we can combine the rule of cool and crunchiness.

Saying "yeah give it a shot dude" is nice, but being able to say "You can absolutely try that, and here's HOW" is even better.

Like anon earlier who wanted to make not-the-R-Gun.

Does anyone have experience with Battle Century G or Lunar Reckoning? Wondering if either's decent once in-game

>>15041810
>In the latter,
[Mekton]
>it seems to be any kind of torso damage through the armor (or whatever location your cockpit's in) that causes exposure, according to the various environmental rules.

Really? Not sure about that... At least, I don't remember any such rule. I also don't remember any rules for the effects of being exposed to vacuum. There's rules for people suffering fire damage, falling damage, etc, but none for vacuum... or radiation, IIRC. Maybe I'm wrong?

>>15041821

Agreed. Finding that goldilocks zone is hard though.

>>15042478
In MZP tech manual under the environment protections themselves; each comes with the environment's rules.

High Pressure
>In addition, all successful attacks that penetrate armor on an unprotected unit do an extra 2 kills of damage, as the high pressures continue to twist and bend metal after the initial attack

>If the torso servo is damaged in any way, the pilot may be exposed to the vacuum of space (roll luck vs 12) and will die unless s/he is wearing by a space suit

Word for word, errors included.

>>15042501
Er sorry that second one is obviously space, forgot to state it.

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>>15042501

>>15042514
To be fair they're in the bloody mech-assembly; I don't think they even are in the main book.

I LOVE having the damn thing there when selecting enviro-protections, mind you, just, you know, it's one of those things that maybe would be better off also written elsewhere too.

Here's my first attempt at figuring out the mech creation system. I made a fighter. I'm not entirely certain if VTOL is even needed with gravitics, or how/where I was supposed to maybe select a configuration like fighter without it being a transformation (if it's a transformation is that a cost multiplier?) so I'm sure there's tons of errors in there, but at least I think I've got the math more or less figured out.

I think.

http://pastebin.com/nmygDpiK

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How weird/unconventional can people work with mecha in games.

I ask as I was the guy posting his homebrewed mech game in the previous thread and was wondering about the interior cockpit machinations. The mechs themselves are around Votoms sized and usually single pilot (duel pilots for much larger mechs like a tank crew)

One side of me thinks they should be closer to tank crew (surrounded by physical devices they have to manipulate but able to climb out of hatches) and another thinks they should be cybernetically linked with GitS style plugs and wires and effectively locked in until the mech releases them.

Another issue is what gear pilots should be wearing while inside a mech. Original designs had them wearing super bulky but mostly soft environmental suits that converts the otherwise poisonous atmosphere into something breatheable and with that, the cockpits integrate for that directly but if something else might work i'd be interested to know.

>>15042632
First, your first sentence not entirely sure about?

Second: Two nobles duel, one mech has dual pilots.

3) That one literally depends on the tech level really. Direct interface is the kind of thing you'll implement when it's possible and relatively safe; while most governments give few fucks about the individual soldiers/pilots - even very little after very expensive training - the thought of a multi-million machine being lost in a PR incident DOES make them testy enough about things that they'll not implement DNI until the short-term issues are resolved.

Think Macross:
Tight-fit manual cockpits in the first models, but the YF-19 project (and thus introduced into general forces with the VF-19 Excalibur) had an all-around virtual cockpit that took "helmet-HUD" several steps further. There WAS also direct neural interface (in fact it was in direct competition) but it turned out to still have some nasty side-effects, and in the end was more or less left unused for a couple more decades.

What pilots should wear is generally "as much as can reasonably work", the balancing point being "need" vs "weight and encumbered reflexes". For example modern pilots have quite the kit. They need it, though. From low-level life support and necessary G-compensation to the cooling system compensating for what they're fucking wearing. There's also basic survival gear, connectors and lines for their helmet systems...

Chances are you'd have the cockpit handle life support, sure, BUT you still have a fully capable suit because any breach or malfunction will kill the pilot otherwise. Take Gundam, for example, where they wear suits despite full life support within the MS. Because life support fails catastrophically WHEN YOUR MECH FUCKING EXPLODES.

>>15042718
Ejection's another major consideration: It's not just a matter of space and structure in the vehicle itself, ejection systems are built around what's basically gravitic suicide.

Even though NEWER seats might have a softer 14G or so impulse (remember how 9G blacks you out? yeah), but you're still adding whatever you were already under if mid-maneuver too. Since this will utterly destroy someone who isn't properly equipped AND trained, and STILL causes permanent stress or damage on the body nevertheless (that's why you're limited in how many times you can do this, EVER, before you're banned from planes where this could be a thing)...

You need specialized equipment and very tight straps and connectors; and sensors that will get every step of that ejection to work right (imagine if your head wasn't secured. it's less whiplash and more decapitation).

>>15042573

Interesting. I don't think there's a cost associated with having the Fighter form, if that's the only form you have. It means you have 2x MA but -2MV. You probably didn't need to give it a Head, but could if you like, no harm done. I don't remember wings giving bonuses to MA, but I could be wrong... Overall, it's looking pretty good!

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Has there ever been a mecha anime where the mech(s) can go faster than the speed of light?

Was Gunbuster able to do that? Like, in its decobined mode?

Well, I figure Daikengo must be able to... It turns into a Star-Warsy spaceship that travels between various different space civilizations in short order.

>>15042791
Well, head would be the nose/sensor-array? Anywhere else has penalties.

I haven't taken a good look at mated weapons yet, but it's possible those might be a good or at least equal alternative to energy-pool.

>>15043293
Travel yes, but in-combat is a no except you can say for the teleporters.

However, for long range travel it's not that uncommon: For example Fold Boosters were compatible with VF-11 Thunderbolts, and are *commonly* used as needed by Excaliburs and the like. That said usually you'll just pack a squadron into a larger ship capable of FTL, so it's not built into variable-fighters to save on costs and mass (for the same mass and price, a fighter with a fold drive would be inferior to one without when it comes to combat).

I believe Vandread's combined mechs were capable of starflight as well?

It's far more common in games though:
>Thunder Force
Fighters travel between worlds and star systems; even the low-tech human-built replicas are capable of warping across the galaxy under combat conditions after getting an emergency signal.

>R-Type
This should not be surprising, when the most basic nameless-faceless-pilot grunt fighter can fire a continent-cracker every few seconds, and *any* fighter at most need only be "catapulted" to roam between dimensions and even time. The elite models have rapid-fire planet-busters and can jump realities on their own power. Interstellar is nothing.

>Gradius
T-301s are mass-produced or limited-production at worst, and are also interstellar-capable timeships

>Descent
In Descent II the Pyro-GX (which is a souped up mining scout, not an actual military machine) gets equipped with a warp-drive and proceeds to jump around the galaxy. It's installed *IN SECONDS*, although that ship model is particularly known for being able to just hook up to just about anything it picks up better than the borg.

>Freespace
Starfighters could not jump to subspace on their own early on (they also didn't have shields at first), but near the end of the first great war small jump-drives get installed. Decades later most fighters have them standard

And so on and so forth.

>>15043293
>Has there ever been a mecha anime where the mech(s) can go faster than the speed of light?

Goldran featured multiple galaxies being crossed within, like, a month at most timewise. And then the final villain crossed that entire space in the span of about a fucking day to reach the main cast.

>>15043311
>Well, head would be the nose/sensor-array? Anywhere else has penalties.

I think that penalty only applies to humanoids and animal forms... but i could be wrong...

>>15043498
>Goldran featured multiple galaxies being crossed within, like, a month at most timewise.

By Advenger, I'd wager?

>>15043646
I dunno either!
I guess we've found a hole in the design section, because I have no damn clue.

fighter(corvette) form suggests head though.

>>15043653
Advenger, yes, but also Captain Shark. And the villains of the show did it too. And Emperor Walzac did it even faster than all of them.

>>15043383
>The elite models have rapid-fire planet-busters and can jump realities on their own power.

Jesus, and the Bydo are still kicking the shit out of them. Really puts things into perspective.

>>15043688
To be fair, the Bydo *TOOK OVER* the dimension they were flushed into by the future, before they started spilling back out looking for their creators or the things they must protect them from (lesson: Program IFF early, not *AFTER* they could wake up and act on their instincts)

Fun perspective moment. In 40k, a ship's lance fires a handful of times an hour. These are the weapons one masses to perform exterminatus over several hours to several days (depending on how big a fleet you've got with you).

Comparatively the most destructive, most disgustingly powerful *fighter-mounted* wavecannon can fire at full charge every 45 seconds. The Annihilation-Platform Moritz-G was roughly the size of an imperial bomber and had to be taken out before its planet-destroying capabilities were brought online - a matter of minutes.

>>15043763
>The Annihilation-Platform Moritz-G was roughly the size of an imperial bomber and had to be taken out before its planet-destroying capabilities were brought online - a matter of minutes.

I'd love to see that built in Mekton Z!

>>15043671

Well doesn't it say that the reason for the "-2 to sensors if they're not in a head" is because of "limbs waving around in the way"? That would imply fighters and tanks and cars and such wouldn't have such a problem...

>>15044200
what if they think the wings will flap?!?!?

Wing Zero EW version, you ruined everything!!!

I tried out Jovian Chronicles, and everything seemed like it could one shot super easily. Was me and my drunk group just fucking up?

>>15045094
... Yes and no. You have to remember that damage is against three armor thresholds. The real explosion hazard (remember there's ejection then) is from someone fumbling their defense roll. Usually, if both are moving, one's total bonus on defense will usually be one, maybe two higher than the gunnery would be, but that's if you're facing yourself; grunts are probably -2 or -3 below what you could get in total instead.

Say you've got Armor 10. That's 10 for a light, 20 for a heavy, 30 for overkill.
You're shot at by an x8 weapon. If they get you just even, that's MoS 0, a near miss.
If they hit you by 1 (say they rolled a 6 you rolled a 5) that's 1x8 which is less than your armor. Pings off.
If they hit you by 2 that's 2x8: 16. That's a light damage roll. You roll light on the table; most of the time something will take a -1 or -2 penalty. Your armor drops by one afterwards but let's ignore that for now.

If you're hit by 3, that's 3x8=24. Now we're in trouble. Heavy Damage can result in the destruction of your mech in lethal fashion, but MOSTLY just debilitates something; you lose a weapon, you lose 1d6 auxiliary systems, your sensors are blown out.
And an MoS 4, 32 damage, will blow you the fuck up.

Now a few things to consider:
> x8 is a very light weapon for a military vehicle, we have to admit this first. Most of us would rather be fielding an x10 or x12 and that's if they're rapid-fire or have cavernous ammo or good accuracy.

>10 armor is *LIGHT* military vehicle. That's on the low end of recon. That level of armor is basically the minimum level of "is bulletproof" against a good hunting rifle to protect the occupants (you'd need to roll really high to get through 8 (since that's 80 people-scale) or 9, but it CAN be done by a sharpshooter lying prone and taking his time to aim).

>cont

>>15045160
>cont

>Standard mechs you'll notice tend to have closer to 15 armor. An x8 weapon from earlier still needs MoS 2 to deal light damage, but won't deal heavy until MoS 4, and only overkills at MoS 6 (you're both rolling 'best of 1d6' and have to beat the other guy by 6) or better there!

>Range, Cover, Obscuring/concealment, attacker's movement and defender's movement all strongly affect the attack and defense factors.

If you're standing still you get a bonus to attack, but you're a sitting duck: there's a defense bonus based on how fast you're moving, whereas your attacking penalty is based on whether you're immobile, going at combat speed, or going at top-speed (normally 'bonus', normal, and 'penalties'). So a fast and dodgy vehicle moving at ITS combat speed rating can be much harder to hit than a slowass clunker moving at its top speed, despite not losing as much of its fire control's precision.

Range (BR on weapons) applies penalties (and even damage penalties for energy weapons as you'll notice!) every time you into a new rangeband.

If that x8 weapon was in extreme range, and had attenuation 2, it might be down to x2!

The most likely thing that happened, tell me if I'm wrong, is that your players stood in a spot and got shot back at?

Because when you stack all those bonuses, even an average dodge roll vs a medium weapon, on a sitting duck, could easily overkill many things.

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>>15045196

Hey anon, thanks for the primer on damage in Silhouette! This was very helpful. (I'm not >>15045094 by the way.) I've never played HG/JC, so this was welcome education.

BTW, you mentioned issue involving
>rangebands

Can you elaborate on how those works? I've been thinking about Range issues a lot lately.

>>15045497
Okay a weapon's Base Range (BR) is its no-penalty value (when designing weapons it's also a rather massive cost factor). So, if a weapon has BR3 then within 3 hexes there's no penalties. You may even get a +1 if within the same hex (standard ground hex is 50m across, different scales change this; it's 500m in space; there's a lot of room).

Medium range is double this. So, hexes 4-6 for a BR3. You're at -1 to hit with standard weapons. This would also be one application of attenuating damage for weapons that suffer this (almost universally energy like particle/lasers)

Long range doubles that again: 7-12 (four times the base) are long range hexes. -2 to attack. A second application of attenuating.

Extreme range doubles this again: 13-24 is the weapon's extreme range: -3 to hit, three applications of attenuating.

Attenuating Damage (usually marked AD:#) is the main disadvantage usually applied to energy weapons. This is what keeps their threat value down. In Heavy Gear for example, a Pulse Laser has insane damage, but has short range and might lose 3 damage per rangeband after the first: That x20 (this is "anti-tank", as "gears" are basically equivalent to one-man humvees or somewhat armored technicals) is down to x17 at medium, x14 at long, and x11 at extreme. Out at those ranges, you've paid a hell of a lot for very low efficiency: a heavy rifle would still be x12 there, to say nothing of field-guns.

Some special notes:
>Some weapons will have ranges like 0/0/1/2. This is not an error. It means its SHORT range is within the same hex as you are, and it's not medium but LONG range at one hex away. This is common with throwing grenades or the like.

>Melee is almost never "hex vs hex next door" for that matter, unlike most of the d20 system. A melee weapon that can reach into the next hex would probably be some abnormally huge mech's longass-electro-whip's extreme-range.

>>15045535

Interesting indeed. Thank you for the info-dump!

I would guess that Attenuating Damage is not so much of a thing in space. Or is it?

>>15045535
Just to help with some perspective, using old edition HG (very small changes by silcore, but HG and JC are pretty much the same ruleset entirely just each with their own mechs and weapons and all that) because fucked if I know what I did with my JC books:

Gear 1, we'll call him DPG as per what he's using gets the drop on Gear 2, who we'll call SLC (that's Deployable Pack Gun and Sniper Laser Cannon, respectively) Despite the name, the SLC is actually one of the most common gear lasers, because it's the lightest and cheapest. Heavy Pulse Laser Cannons are more of a twin-linked main battletank weapon, but the bigger gears sometimes carry one to horrifying effect.

In a bad place and fearing he's already been spotted, DPG opens fire against SLC at 10 hexes (it doesn't matter ground or space! you hit further up there, less wind, gravity, beam attenuation, etc), whose total defensive modifiers are currently +1 because he's not going particularly fast and isn't particularly skilled.

10 is in extreme range of a DPG though, so between that and the weapon's -1ACC, someone's attacking at -4. He can saturation-fire (ammo evaporates though) and has a +1 from stats, so he's rolling (at skill 2) 2d6-1 against 2d6+1. Hope the other guy has thin armor: if he rolls a 5 and the other guy rolls a 2, that's 4 and 3; not even enough to pierce 10 armor. Bad move.

SLC spins around and fires. He's just at the edge of his Medium Range (BR5), so his x12 is now x11 because of -1/rangeband on his laser. But it's a +1 accuracy weapon... If he's got the same bonuses, he's still at +1 instead of -1 despite not having RoF to saturate the hexes. This will not end well for DPG.

>>15045622
>2d6-1 against 2d6+1

I'm seldom comfortable with games where the random factor is larger than the base capabilities. Is it usually like this in Silhouette?

>>15045552
It's all hex-based.

In space, your rangebands are still in hexes. Your laser attenuates far more slowly in the vacuum, and even antilaser aerosol is less effective due to the sheer volume you've got to cover too.

So it's all by hex. Aircraft weapons use 250m hexes though (they're more expensive too), and I think you don't suffer attenuation if you're firing across the rangebands of skirmish mode (1 on 1 arena scale) but I don't remember.

>>15045635
It isn't. Those are final values. Keep in mind each uses the BETTER of those two dice.

Every skill level adds another die: experts are usually 3d, aces 4d.

But it's all just ONE d6: you're using the best of.

If you roll 3d6+3 and get 1,1,5, the result is 5+3=8.

Bonuses and penalties can add up: that +1 and -1 scenario was because the poor son of a bitch was firing at extreme ranges with a shitass weapon, and even then it was only -1 because he still had +2 from his autofire mode and +1 from his stat. Can easily be +3-+4 instead with a good gun in its normal range.

>>15045636
>>15045665

Cool, thanx mang

>>15045160
>Armor vs No damage / Light damage / Heavy damage / Overkill damage

That actually sounds like a good way to handle damage...

>>15046109
It fits vehicles rather well. Anything under your armor just bounces off. But do remember that every light damage drops your armor by 1 for subsequent hits, and heavy damage by 2.

Heavy and Overkill also get recalculated as a result: A heavy damage roll drops your overkill value by 6, in other words!

Of course, while it's very easy to cause damage with an AP weapon, it *cannot* cause overkill!

>>15046220
>Of course, while it's very easy to cause damage with an AP weapon, it *cannot* cause overkill!

Armor-Piercing weapons you mean? That's interesting too. Rather clever, those Canucks.

>>15046359
Yup.

There's also Armour-Crushing (AC). These double the loss; or give normal loss if combined to a regular AP weapon - if I remember right.

Haywire weapons do not cause additional loss, but they DO get an extra damage roll.

All of these effects are very significant price increases though.

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Let's talk about special damage results. For vehicular/mecha combat, I mean.

What kinda non-"Hit Point" damage effects are good to have in a game?

* reduction in hydraulic/motive system?
* sensors blank out for a bit?
* harm to pilot?
* increased knockback?
* reduced movement speed?
* thrusters jammed at full power?
* fire control knocked out of alignment?
* ammo/fuel explosion?
* loss of limb/wing/weapon/component?
* etc etc etc

I'm rather obsessed with this subject at the moment.

>>15046584
Well first you'll want to consider ablative protections like ERA, armor, shields (solid or otherwise)... Those are certainly "HP" in a very straight sense of the word.

It's when things start getting damaged above and beyond that that the things you suggest should happen, except for increased knockback which actually would have more to do with your total armor and chunks lost.

>>15046601
>ERA
??
What is "ERA"?

Anyway, I'm wondering what other secondary/special/non-HP damage effects can we think of, and that we'd like to have in a mecha game?

Perhaps a joint/joints locking up so a certain limb or limbs can't move right/at all?

>>15046770
>What is "ERA"?
Explosive Reactive Armor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUVnNk0aJBE

>>15046770
Explosive Reactive Armour. FUN stuff, and real, to boot.

You take two armor plates, and sandwich some explosives in between. Yes I'm serious.

What it's designed for is that when it's struck - in particular by a plasma jet or kinetic penetrator, the explosive detonates, which displaces the impact point, increases the amount of material that must be cut through, provides some counterforce, and may if you're lucky shatter and disrupt a penetrator too.

This is very much ablative, obviously, but is built into large numbers of small sections, atop regular armor (otherwise the soft bits would have an issue). The whole package is designed to be no risk to the vehicle beneath it, though very close infantry could be in trouble from spalling or the disrupted explosive weapon; all of that energy isn't just disappearing after all.

As a literal layer of ablative protection, you can see how this makes a lot of "HP" sense.

>>15046770
In regards to effects, it's important to remember that the reason for abstraction is speed and fun. Much as many of us here love crunch, things like combat have to be able to flow even though we're calculating and throwing dice, because otherwise, well, shit gets really boring right?

So keep it simple. Focus on the effect, not the exact mechanics that would lead to an effect.

Various primary locations could have different effect/damage tables to cover what you want. There should also be temporary/permanent values, and the self-repair or bypasses or backups might determine that.

For example, say we've got a few tables on a hit. Let's make'em d4s. Yes, I'm bored. Work is slow, we should be on vacation, fuck everything.

1: Externals (sensors/ECM/etc)
2: Motility (limbs and movement)
3: Offensive (weapons/ammo/firecon)
4: Structural (armor/frame/crew/etc)

In each of those you could have the various results like sensor damage, weapon damage, and limb damage.

The reason I mentioned temporary/permanent is because a jammed joint could be as simple as needing a short reboot of the associated system, or getting the jammed chunk of metal out from the actual joint - maybe a few flexes or the other manipulator picking it out will do the trick, but for a turn or two it's out of commission.

That's where things like bypasses, backups and autorepair come in; these could alter the chance of it being permanent.

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>>15046809
>>15046832

Alright, got it. I knew what the armor was, just didn't know the acronym. But thanks for the links.

>>15046899

Thanks, this is the kinda stuff I've been thinking about. I agree that speed of play is VITAL. And your point about temporary vs permanent is well-taken.

>Yes, I'm bored. Work is slow, we should be on vacation, fuck everything.

You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. And, best of all, a witty dick. Cheers!

>>15047488
Just a proof of concept for the system disruption ... uh... system. Let's say we're using % and have a light/critical damage split. Let's say "critical" damage is when armor has prevented less than half of the incoming damage. Subsystems are by table such as "motility" or "offensive" for purposes of backup perks, etc.

Light damage: 70/30 chance of temporary vs permanent
Heavy damage: 30/70
If temporary, +10% cumulative every time that table is hit for temporary, until something goes permanent.
Every full 10% adds another turn before it's operational again, minimum 1. Light damage does one round less, but still minimum 1 (so 1-19 is just one round).

Bypasses are the cheapest upgrade: -10% and can allow you to jury-rig a permanent on that subsystem once back to damaged(reduced operation) status, though of course a rigged system no longer gets the % bonus.

Backup Systems are -20% to the roll and reduce durations by 1, minimum 0. Jury-Rigging back to functional is still limited to only once for that entire table (so uh, you might have to pick which arm gets it if you keep getting shot in the same places) but full operation. A rigged system of course no longer gets the % bonus.

Autorepair systems come in 'automated' and 'nanomachines, son' types.

The former acts as backup systems but also ignores Permanent damage: It's always just disabled for longer and longer; durations can and do stack if it's still inoperative and hit again.

Full living-metal/machinecell/nanomachine construction reduces all disables TO one turn temporary. This system must apply to the entire mech, and every turn of system disabled it saves on (thus not counting the one round you're out) is taken straight from the total armor/HP values: Your mass is getting reduced, vaporized and shorn off, but it thinning out is often a small price to pay for being able to function at full capacity after blows that would have utterly stopped a lesser mech quite dead. You may want "mass tanks"

>>15047554

I'm liking this idea... I think? I confess I couldn't fully follow everything you were saying. It's late, I dunno. But I've got a good feeling about this.

>>15047747
Basically the idea was to streamline the severity of "X disabled" into a single roll. I was also half asleep and possibly on the phone with a customer at the time (I'm busy here, have you tried turning your car off an on again?)

So basically, all of those X knocked-out/destroyed results instead become X disabled. You'd then roll (in this incarnation of the idea) a % check depending on if it's light or heavy.

If you roll "under" (like in the first pair of numbers, a 70 or less) it's just temporary and will be functional again after a number of turns or 'actions' (more sensible in an game where everyone gets several like heavy gear) where you don't get its bonuses/use/whatever equal to the tens digit of your roll.

the backups and autorepair systems are of course mech upgrades that help mitigate this, down to the full nanomachine type construction... but the later has a cost. You exchange "X offline" for ever-increasing (it's temporary and stacking 10%'s remember?) levels of chunks of you getting blown off. Shrugging off anything short of "reactor critical" is fucking powerful when you're blowing eachother's arms off, but you'll be feeling a different and dangerous kind of attrition all the same.

>>15040182
In Battle Century G, is it possible to make an attacker that focuses on the extreme damage zones through the various support actions/systems, or is that just expensive for nothing?

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>>15048370
There's a lot of games in the doc. Can someone give me a description of some of the more popular/better ones?

Also I'm looking for a game thats heavy on detail/simulation but feels like gundam/NGE not the tanks with legs stuff like battletech and not the over the top super robot stuff like transformers or voltron.

>>15048679
Well I can only tell you of the ones I know.
Avoid "d20 Mecha" at all costs. Too crunchy for its actual depth is quite a unique fuckup, and it's just bad all around. I'll include BESM d20 in there; overall just... if you can avoid the d20 system, okay?

Battle Century G/Z can be used for anything from 08th to 00 to Shin Getter. It's not very heavy on detail/simulation as a result however, but it isn't bad and does let you 'mix' the themes if you want more SRW style supers and reals together. Not what you're currently looking for I know, but worth saying.

Cyberpunk 2020 is oldschool and a bit clunky but functional.

Silhouette System: One of those I'd recommend: has settings like Gear Krieg, Heavy Gear, Jovian Chronicles. HG in particular is very VOTOMS level though a little less uh... uncaring about the pilots. Jovian Chronicles is more Gundam, but you *CAN* get good use out of a fighter like half the damn thing's size (in particular it uses Creativity instead of Agility to control, and if you modify one to add say an arm a-la-einhander that would technically qualify you for fuel savings through AMBAC) so don't discount them, especially in lightning-strikes (look those up they're badass scenarios)

Silhouette is effect/result based so whether that's a magic lightning cannon or a megaparticle beam spraygun, whether that's flight magic or diesel-powered antigrav, doesn't really matter. Makes fluffing your setting pretty easy as the mechanics won't fight it.

GURPS is usable for mecha and spaceships. This is no joke: the thing is though that you always have to carefully - as the GM - choose: "these books we're using this time, those ones stay away from", otherwise it's a clusterfuck. That's where most people make the mistake an assume the thing's always a clusterfuck,but you're not supposed to be using "Fantasy Adventure" abilities in your fucking mechs (unless it's that kind of campaign).

>>15048728
>cont


Iron Kingdoms is not what you're looking for right now, but IS good stuff. You don't pilot the mechs though, they're basically steamwork golems. Fun, however, and rather badass combat systems. Setting is more or less Magical WW1 level with evil necrotech liches and burn-it-all mormons. Again, not your current search but worth a look.

Mekton Zeta Plus is one I'm slowly getting used to again to but the design section's a blast and the rules seem functional enough. It's actually an inspiration for Jovian Chronicles (in fact their very first use of the setting was in Mekton... I still have that book somewhere). Very much oriented towards gundam tech levels.

>>15048728
>>15048751
Nice, thanks bro

>>15048255

Ah, OK, I follow that better now. Thanks! It's an intriguing mechanic with lots of potential.

>>15048751
>Iron Kingdoms
>Fun, however, and rather badass combat systems.

I thought Iron Kingdoms was used D&D's system? 3.5 or D20 or something... is that not true?

>>15048911
There's a d20 system version but they also have their own version using the tabletop's rules.

>>15048939

Interesting. I'll have to look into that. What's it called? Is it a specific edition, or has a unique name or something?

>>15040182
Good. I was worried you'd made the last thread a one-off. I think this sorta needs to be an on-going general regardless of traffic just on the point that ppl need to know this aspect/community/cross-section exists. So good on you, bro. Keep it going.

>>15048949
Iron Kingdoms RPG actually.
Privateer press does it. It's basically the same rules as the tabletop for the most part so if you know one you effectively know the other.

>>15040182

why is that robot ok with the guy in the dress-shirt holding his dong? is that his pilot?

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>>15048962

>>15048985

Ah so. Thanks!

>>15040182
Incidentally, the 1966 Ogon Bat movie got subbed recently.

Honestly, I've just kinda given up completely on making my own system. Nobody wants it, and the fanbase is such that any minor flaws in a new system that can be fixed easily make it worse than MAJOR flaws in an old system.

>>15049078
Actually the main problem people had with your system was a highly antagonistic response to any questions or criticism.

There was rather significant fan response and comments for the entire process of Giant Guardian Generation and its successor BCG/Z, but concerns were not handwaved.

While you appear to have changed your tone later on, the early response made much of the first-impression negative. And as we all know; people talk.

Sorry it did not work out.

>>15049078

That sucks, man. I'm sorry to hear that.

>>15049078
I like how you cry about "the fans" when the all the evidence points to the contrary of your statement. The only reason YOU aren't wanted is because you're a massive twat.

You know that just makes you look like EVEN MORE of a massive twat. God you're a fucking egomaniac.

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>>15049754
Cut it out, man. You're whipping a dead horse.

Meanwhile, here's another one for you-all: what traits would you give, rules-wise, would you give to a Tank Mode for a transforming mech?

Like, what would be the gameplay differences? Stability of firing while moving? Mechs seem to be pretty good at that already. Ground movement speed? A running mech and a tracked tank seem to be on a pretty even keel, depending on size. Better armor? I can't defend that one, it seems arbitrary. More resistant to knockback? That I can see. Lower profile, easier to hide behind cover? That I can see. Better an negotiating certain terrain types? Perhaps...

This is something I've wondered about for a long time.

>>15049801
>Cut it out, man. You're whipping a dead horse.
It's not my fault the guy is incapable of posting without making himself look like even more of an ass.

But ok, I'll relent.

>>15049078
Naw, it is just that your new system was'nt better than any of the old systems and when this was pointed out you did'nt take it very well, and keep ignoring the criticisms and lash out at the critics instead,

>>15049801
I guess it depends on how the system handles any differences between ground vehicles and mecha. Like it matters a lot.
I could actually see an argument for "slightly better armor" as a lot of the joints could be closed up, leaving less open un/low armored gaps.

>>15049087
>>15049101
>>15049801
Oh don't start having a pitty party for that jackass, he dug his own grave.

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>>15049819
>I guess it depends on how the system handles any differences between ground vehicles and mecha. Like it matters a lot.
>I could actually see an argument for "slightly better armor" as a lot of the joints could be closed up, leaving less open un/low armored gaps.

Hmmm. Maybe "Slightly better armor" is acceptable... maybe.... I dunno... maybe.

Megatron often turns into a tank, and it just seems like a useless altmode.

>>15049801
The biggest avantages of a tank mode should be consolidation of armor (as Mekton mentions), a significant reduction in Radar Cross Section, and a massive increase in weight distribution and traction.

You have less ill-protected joints all over the place; getting all that arm and leg motion has its price you know, whereas the weak points of a turret can be shrouded or covered far more easily by the turret and hull themselves.

While a high vantage point is good sensor-wise, there's a big difference between "we have a sensor boom" and "the entire thing is 20 meters tall". The latter is just begging for a solid lock-on and early detection. You can't miss someone towering over the tree line, you know?

Finally, when you've got 40 tons on those feet - and imagine how bad it is when they're on their tiptoes with high heels like some of the gundams - then all terrains are potential death traps. Tanks are a lot better at distributing themselves all over that shit. Forward says fuck yeah.

>>15049860
Maybe some kind of increased critical hit resistance? Less exposed joints, assuming the head sinks inside the body, ect, there's less vulnerable points on the overall form.

>>15049922
Your arms won't jam up, you have no arms (well, damage in one form might transfer over, but for now you have no arms). Your knees won't buckle. There's no exposed elbow, hell you don't even have a neck or waist.

That does help quite a bit.

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>>15049881
>>15049922

OK, good points. Better armor protection (or at least diminished vulnerability to criticals)... Less of an obvious target... and then there's terrain.

Obviously legs are better for climbing up/down/over extreme obstructions. And jumping. But when it comes to mud, snow, sand, and other types of obnoxious terrain, tank treads would do better than legs -- that does seem to be a reasonable assumption.

What other terrain types would treads be better at than legs? Sand, mud, snow... probably not woods/jungle... I guess treads *could* be faster on flat surfaces. Depends on how fast the mech can run.

>>15050086
uneven is a big one. very thick forest can be better navigated with legs; perhaps not so much because of the feet but because of the ability to hit that tree-trunk up above its center of mass rather than the roots; a zaku crushes through a forest of huge old trees while an abrams just crashes.

But very uneven terrain is a mess for any walking, that you basically just 'even out' with treads. What's "several steps" to a walker is just "a bump" to the thing on treads.

Depending on what each is made of and the terrain itself, "urban friendliness" can also be a thing. While regular walking can be careful enough to be no worse than a loaded semi, a bad stomp or short hop might put you through the asphalt and ankles in the power mains under a street. Shit. Meanwhile the tank will never have such a risk (and not only because it doesn't jump...probably, I mean we've all played SWIV) but leaves the asphalt looking like the streets of montreal.

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>>15050130

Good points. Uneven terrain is indeed tricky for legs, not so much for tracks. It has to get SUPER uneven for legs to be better on it than treads -- like, mountain climbing.

Is it possible (or probable, or feasible, or reasonable) to consider giving tank forms an advantage when firing while moving? That's sorta a tank's thing, isn't it? I mean, what sets it apart from mobile artillery... Those things always hold still when they fire, I think.

Also, how would wheels compare with walking mecha when dealing with uncooperative terrains?

>>15050575
That's again a matter of stability. A lower center of mass, a larger weight distribution; it wouldn't be BETTER than a mech honestly for this, but what it IS is a lot cheaper for the same precision, requiring a good deal less calculating power and compensation.

As for the other question:
Tanks are heavily armored general purpose vehicles designed for direct combat against enemy armor. With speed and maneuvering as additional considerations, they generally pack a smaller cannon.

Artillery is more lightly armored, will have the weapon mounted higher or with a higher vertical angle possible, and may not even have a turret. It is not designed for direct armored engagement and may indeed only be protected against small-arms fire and comparatively lacks defensive armaments, but has a much heavier main weapon and is equipped to ensure precision fire at long indirect ranges.

SPGs, or "tank destroyers" are rare nowadays but not inexistent: these are specific anti-armor vehicles and lack the flexibility of a Tank, but also present a much smaller cross-section (no turret), and can as a result have an even greater ability to deflect incoming rounds or penetrators. They pack a larger weapon than tanks often as well, though not designed with the same parameters as artillery of course. Their armor may be thinner other than in the front, and are often equipped with entrenching systems to go hull-down rapidly by default.

>>15050575
Sure. Tanks can have impressive gun stabilization on the go thanks to cannon fire control systems and the suspension. In most situations though, best operating practice for tanks is to still stop and hold position while firing, unless it's absolutely undesirable for some reason. I can't quite see a running bipedal mech having the same vertical gun stabilization due to human style running inherently having more motion due to arms and legs swinging, the body shifting weight, joints in motion, etc. In comparison, a tank is more or less monolithic (gun is pretty rigidly mounted to the turret or hull, the entire machine doesn't move much except for turret rotating left and right and the gun's up/down elevation)

>>15050576
Depends on what sort of uncooperative terrain we're talking about, and also what sort of wheeled vehicles. Owing to greater performance and traction, some military armored vehicles have 6x6 or 8x8 wheel systems. Sandy or muddy conditions might be bad for a mecha if sand got in the joints, while it might not be as bad for a wheeled vehicle. If an IED or mine or RPG took out a single wheel, it's not that big a deal versus a mecha that is now crippled because it lost one of its two feet/legs.

>>15050576
The less restricted the movement the more effective a wheeled system is; the speeds possible for the same power expenditure leave an increasingly wide gap with other systems as the conditions improve. A good road will make good wheels king.

As off-road increasingly dominates the vehicle's mission profile, tracks show their strengths. US army research for example showed that for more than 60% offroad time on vehicles of over ten tons, tracked configurations became the choice pick, and comparative travel times continue to improve the worse the conditions are and the heavier the vehicle. If you're 50 tons and crossing a desert, kill for tracks if you have to.

Walkers are best for very rough terrains - potentially "climbing" situations, at low mass. Unfortunately that rules out much of mecha anime; where walkers are useful are at MOST over at the heavy-gear scale (and even they have wheeled or tracked movement systems for when they need actual speed on roads). Negotiating extreme terrain - possibly marshlands, would be better with a quad or hexapedal mech than it would be with any wheeled vehicle. They're at their absolute best as powered-armor or exo-suits; as direct mobility multipliers of someone with that shape.

The big problem with bipeds is that other than less getting mired in mud than wheels (which may have a spinning-helplessly issue) they suffer most of the problems wheels do, possibly with even more concentrated force. Once you get to 30-40 ton machines, a foot in the bog is a foot sinking fast.

I mean,sure, you then see all them mobile suits hovering, but that brings us to the final nail in the giant biped coffin: Once THAT technology is out, that's cheaper, easier and more resilient than having the mobile suit walk around.

It's when you're not even 3m tall and dealing with cliff faces or terrain that's shitty even for tracks (including for example close urban situations) that walkers are at their most spectacular and efficient.

Naturally, mecha really don't make a lot of sense, the way they're depicted in anime -- 10x the size of a man is not really a great choice.

But goddmnit, giant robots are COOL. And thus I am making a game which focuses on them. This is /m/ after all, and I am a /m/an.

I appreciate all the insights people are offering. A lot of this stuff is pretty much the way I've thought about it, but some isn't. It's great to have bros to bounce ideas around with.

Super robot game mechanics are still tricky though. But I have some ideas...

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>>15050693
Oh we all love them, look at where we are (although I'm more of a pic related kind of guy)

But when asking where things like the advantages lie, well, we have to at least start from a have-not-yet-bullshitted position.

The easiest answer though certainly is to have the mechs themselves smaller......

.... or the people bigger.

To a full-sized Zentradi, that WAS just close-fitting power-armor after all!

>>15051263
For Mekton this would be what, a command armor that ups your fighter to corvette scale?

>>15051478

I think I might actually build it as a Combiner. Or a separate, larger mech controlled by the main unit. Like the Dendrobium. Too big for Command Armor.

>>15051635
Larger slave might work yeah. It IS basically a dendrobium. Heavily shielded though; you're safe until it breaks on you.

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OK guys, let's get down to it.

How would you create a Final Attack weapon in an RPG? Y'know, like Voltron's Blazing Sword, or the Yamato's Wave-Motion Gun?

What you want is NOT just a one-shot weapon. You also want it to be a weapon that cannot be used at the beginning of the combat.

How do you build into the rules a mechanic for the kind for "enforced drama" that Final Attacks run on?

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>>15051751
Aw anon we speak the same language here.

Mekton and Silhouette both have a system for this:

Beam weapons in Mekton can have Warm-Up time. This can be 1, 2 or 3 turns before it's available to fire (and afterwards again). It's for a full operation of the weapon too so you don't have to worry whether it's the Tronium Cannon or the Hyper-Wavecannon.

You can even make the conversion for firing-prepartation using the Gun transformation; in this case the weapon could be a middling or even low powered one, that gets x10'd when you suddenly deploy to fire it. I think the charging's shared too so it works out fine with maybe taking an action to prepare and fire and then an action to return to normal operation afterwards (of the two even a solo pilot has). The weapon just went UP a scale, so that wide burst-2 megabeam just became an absolute fucking monstrosity (as did its point cost). You could even have a powerdown scenario by giving it limited shots 0 but that will knock you out of the fight entirely because it's one turn per damage of the weapon...

As usual, the attack is just a massive fucking one purchased WITH

With Silhouette you've got two similar drawbacks to what you want: Power Hungry, where it takes additional actions to power it up and fire (it can be used similarly to R-Type Wavecannons where holding the button down means you're not longer firing your regular energy weapons) and another case of (I forget its exact name) cooldown for after firing. In the latter case the weapon is assumed to be charged from the start; you don't run around without any loaded guns until the shooting starts, and much like in R-Type when there's nothing on screen yet, you're holding down and charging freely.

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It may still be early for many of you, but merry eating celebration and to all more explosions.

>>15051751
I'm a fan of the Dendoh approach there - discourage early use by making the unit massively vulnerable after it's used, so you're in trouble if it didn't kill (or at least cripple) the enemy.

>>15053190
Mecha vs Kaiju for Fate Core had a decent superweapon rule in one of the weapon qualities (can't remember the name of the specific one off the top of my head).

Basically the quality gives you some free points to build a superweapon, but when you use your superweapon your whole mecha shuts down, and you have to make a skill roll to restart it. The first catch is the difficulty of the roll is higher depending on the number of systems you are trying to start up at once.
So if you try to restart your whole mecha in the next round, the difficulty is going to be near impossible, so you have to restart everything a little at a time. Meaning you're spending the next couple of combat rounds starting everything on your mech back up little by little.

The second catch is the number of free points you get to make your super weapon is equal to the total number of systems your mech has (including other weapons, and armor oddly enough, which also somehow gets shut down so you have to reboot your armor, which is really weird part of the rule). So if you try to cheese your mecha to be a big gun and nothing else, to make the rebooting easier, your big gun isn't going to be very powerful at all.

And the third catch is you can only use it once per session. Not round, not combat, but game session. This actually works out better than it sounds because the game is centered on being episodic "monster of the week" type thing where most of the end of the session is supposed to be taken up by an epic kaiju battle.

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Let's talk about the boxes we unwrap to get to those tasty mecha: The ships!

How do you like them handled in games?
As impossibly huge fighting terrains?
As dangerously powerful but game-over flag units if something were to blow them up?
As mere transports that don't really mean much?

They're often so heavily armed, you'd expect more recon spotters to be "using" their cannons

>>15054571
Is there a way to do TAG systems in Mekton or Heavy Gear?

>>15054819
>TAG systems

What are "TAG systems"?

>>15055312
If that's the freespace term then those would be targeting beacons. I know you can't do that in silhouette without a very mild homebrewing: What anon wants is basically the "Trackable Emissions" flaw, rather than direct target designation (where you have to keep the beam on them) for a handful of rounds. Only problem is that's a vehicle design flaw, not a weapon effect. Technically you could maybe make them tiny cheapass drones with that flaw that latch on to the target, but by RAW you need your weapons to be AoE in that case or else all you can do is snipe the drone clean off.

Looking for suggestions on a decent, simple system to use.

I ran an SRW Quest in /qst/ in the past and I'd like to do it again.

Last time I sorta winged it on the combat and I don't think the results were fun for the posters to participate in.

Any suggested systems? Preferably, it'll be something that encourages tweaking.

The kind of system you'd recommend to beginners, since I don't think too many people who'd be interested in an SRW Quest would be very happy with something intense or rule heavy like your average mech game.

What I'm looking for should be
>Quick and easy read
>Comes with a fully fleshed out skills
>Comes with sample characters for the player, and sample enemies for the DM.

>>15055348
... I'll uh, just preface this by pasting the simple attack and damage calculation from an older game like SRW J on the GBA

>Accuracy Rate
>[140% + Weapon Accuracy Bonus / 100 + Attacker's Potential Bonus - Defender's Potential Bonus + (Attacker's Unit Terrain Rating * Attacker's Accuracy - Defender's Unit Terrain Rating * (Defender's Mobility * 125% + Defender's Dodge)) * 80% / 100] * (100% + Defender's Size * 20%) * (100% + Defender's Terrain Effect) + (5 - Distance) * 3% + Leadership Bonus + Relationship Bonus

>Damage
>[Attacker's Base Weapon Damage * Attacker's Weapon Terrain Rating * (Attacker's Melee/Range + Attacker's Morale) - (Defender's Armor + Defender's Potential Armor Bonus) * Defender's Unit Terrain Rating * (Defender's Defense + Defender's Morale)] / 200 * [100% + (Attacker's Size - Defender's Size) * 5%] * (100% - Terrain Effect) - Defensive Abilities

People who play SRW don't hate mechanics!

Anyways. One of the simpler ones is actually Battle Century Z. Silhouette is also quite simple to use mechanically, but the vehicle design system needs a calculator. It's easy to comprehend, you just happen to need a calculator.

>>15055348
I'm going to second Battle Century G/Z here, though it doesn't have sample characters in the free version, at least.

>>15055589

Seconding the second.

Merry Xmas, Chanukkah, Kwanzaa, and Robonukkah, /m/! I hereby bump ye.

Has anyone else had issues with Assault Suit Leynoss? I really want to like the game, but it's defaulted my thumb sticks to reset the game every time they are pressed. It makes the game damn-near impossible, because I have to stay aware of the fact that a slight twitch might reset the whole thing without saving. Is there any way at all to fix this? Or should I just go for a refund?

>>15058331
I'll be honest... I've only played it using keyboard on an emulator.

I had no troubles there that way.

What are you using that's doing this? Because that is a fucking strange bug.

Also, not really connected to the kind of games we were talking about but screw it I loves me some Leynos and Gun Hazard too.

>>15058360

I'm using DS4 and a normal PS4 controller. Normally I'd suspect the software I'm using, but this has never been a problem with any other game. It's just bizarre.

>>15058372
they're both from d-pad days, so see if it works okay without a regular controller.

that really is bizzare though, and I'm not finding any similar complaints from searching online.

>>15055371
>Silhouette is also quite simple to use mechanically, but the vehicle design system needs a calculator. It's easy to comprehend, you just happen to need a calculator.

That's also a perfect description of Mekton Z.

>>15055371
>>15059438
Actually Silhouette's vehicle design doesn't NEED a calculator, as calculating TVs is entirely optional and only matters for army building in the wargame side.

>>15059462
honestly though, unless you're building cruiseliners (AND YOU CAN!) it's not a bad idea to have things in the same ballpark in particular the offensive and defensive values.

I do mean ballpark, though, as the costs have numerous exponential runaway situations.

Defensive goes up drastically with speed, so even just a handful of hexes faster could easily make you more expensive even if your armor's somewhat lower and the max and combat speed differences leave both models in the same defense bonus bracket.

Miscellaneous can also explode quickly: comm range, ECM, hours of operation between maintenance, and even having a minibar can very rapidly turn the thing into a billionaire's machine.

BUT, if you're keeping things in the same performance envelope with similar equipment, you should try to keep it close.

>>15059476
>hours of operation between maintenance

Is this something which is part of Silhouette mecha specs?!?

>>15060647
Yup!
Deployment Range is one of the vehicle stats. It indicates max fuel load for the most part, but also - given how you know military vehicles tend to be hangar queens - when it needs routine maintenance.

There are modifiers to this; actual 'hangar queen' flaws that increase how long that takes (in heavy gear for example energy weapons take twice the maintenance as regular projectile. they can slowly recharge off the engine though so you can get a handful more shots out of them in a long mission to help make up for it, and spacecraft have fuel separate if they need it (reaction mass reserves as 'burn points' available to use) but are otherwise are measured in hours rather than kilometers. So that starfighter doesn't have a 250km range, it has 250 hour autonomy (probably just the life support's food/scrubbers/etc).

>>15060755
Just to note, heavy gears tend to have deployment ranges ranging from around 400km (heavy assaults or perhaps a superconductive battery stealth model), to 500km (most gears) or even 700km (long range recon).

Heavy Gear has "fusion tubes" for larger vehicles; shuttles or bigger, but the nations of the setting themselves try to keep things low cost: a biodiesel motor runs on damn near anything (the tech manual even has how to turn ammo powder into a slurry you can dump in the fueltank; not very good for the engine but might get you home), is ridiculously rugged, requires little maintenance, and is cheap as fuck: they're running off motorcycle engines here.

Jovian Chronicles uses fusion for the majority of vehicles which is more SRW-level stuff.

>>15060872
isn't the V-Engine the reason heavy gear back armor is the same as their front unlike most vehicles?

>>15060887
It's never explicitly stated, but it's a bigass chunk of metal in between the pilot's seat and the enemy projectiles, so it stands to think that it's not hurting at the least.

Mekton doesn't have mecha Flaws or Disadvantages, does it?

>>15061182

It kind of does. For example, you can reduce the cost of a gun by making it a 1 shot, or by reducing its accuracy.

>>15061182
It doesn't really have them in the sense that silhouette does; you can add things and add things, and weapons can have limitations on them, but you can't get stuff like "weak facing: right" or the such.

>>15061311

Interesting. Of course, personally, I'm not real fond of Advantages/Disadvantages anyway... But still.

>>15051778

I ttttthhhhhhhhink in Mekton Z the Warm-Up Time would be charged and ready for use at the start of the battle... It'd be safe to assume that your Mek has been ON for at least 30 seconds before combat begins -- that's 3 Rounds in Mekton, and the longest Warm-Up Time.

>>15061966
Some make a lot of sense though. Take Brittle Armor for example. A death sentence for a tank, but for a lot of aircraft or really dodgy stealths/recons, it's a pretty good deal: you'll lose protection way faster when hit, but it can let you have your base armor be 1-2 points higher in the first place, which will keep you from dying the first time something looks at you funny. You still need to bug out, but now you get the warning.

>>15062821

Oh, I agree -- there is definitely a place for mecha defects. Absolutely.

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>>15054571

So what's this about ships? I know Battletech loves dropships... I've long been of the opinion that there should be a PC party mecha-carrying craft. Not a big battleship, but something like that weird tripod-ship from Layzner.

>>15064826
There's also the Giant-Battleship stages from R-Type and other shmups, where the enemies are turrets and engines, and the terrain itself's the giant battleship.

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There's also the "Sinope" class from V Gundam.

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What are some of the key elements of mecha anime that RPGs get wrong? Or that they don't do at all?

Personally, I've never encountered a system that can really do a good job of emulating the "both opponents fire their big blasts at each other, creating a flaring clash in the middle which pushes back and forth, before eventually overwhelming one of the opponents" thing.

>>15065659
wut?

>>15065659
Finishers are often not there; even BCG I find doesn't do the techniques all that well though at least they have something. So most mech RPGs have a more attrition/votoms feel to them.

Speed is also something that just fumbles. The systems tend to cause combat to be long, slow, and on an extremely small scale with -comparatively to any console game or anime- very little movement.

Finally I'd say that most RPGs tend to screw up long range combat; but that's probably a point "in favor" for anyone who'd much rather be doing gundam style saber battles. Still, shit like Dynames taking something out across the battlefield is often near impossible, mostly because the battlefield is a very very small map.

Finally, well, air/ground interface for flyers vs vehicles, but that's more of a technical limitation of human players than anything we can blame the game systems for in themselves.

>>15065671
Don't tell me you've never seen this before. Do you not watch anime?

>>15065692
>Finishers are often not there;
>most mech RPGs have a more attrition/votoms feel to them.

Agreed 100%. I'm surprised more anime-style games don't do this. Of course, I've yet to read Shonen Final Burst, and yet to complete Fight!, let alone its Shonen Unlockable. Those might have some good ideas.

>Speed is also something that just fumbles. The systems tend to cause combat to be long, slow

Probably true. But I've pretty much never encountered an RPG that can handle combat quickly... At least, not without handwaving most of it.

>and on an extremely small scale

What do you mean by this? I'm curious.

>with -comparatively to any console game or anime- very little movement.

I am uncertain about this, but you may well be right. Perhaps because movement, in games, makes things more complicated?

>Finally I'd say that most RPGs tend to screw up long range combat;
>shit like Dynames taking something out across the battlefield is often near impossible, mostly because the battlefield is a very very small map.

Well, by "very very small" I gather you mean just a couple of miles. Of course, this also assumes one is using a map.

>Finally, well, air/ground interface for flyers vs vehicles, but that's more of a technical limitation of human players than anything we can blame the game systems for in themselves.

Probably true. Having aircraft (well, fast aircraft) use a different movement scale might be a decent approach, but I'm not sure...

>>15065847
Consider something like Macross, where the fights are over an entire city at least, and that's when they're all bunched up inside an atmosphere.

Now look at Heavy Gear, where 500m; just a few blocks, is inflicting increasingly significant range penalties to most weapons.

Jovian does avoid this in one fashion when doing lightning strikes though: Where both sides are moving so fast they'll only be "encountering" each-other for fractions of a second. All firing calculations are done basically ahead of time (some firing against known trajectory early, and the rest preprogrammed autofire from the ship computers), both sides will unleash a tiny moment of hell, and then be out of range of one another whatever may have happened then.

Most maps in RPGs end up at most a handful of miles, and that's in the larger ones; a lot of scales you're looking at maybe a city block, maybe two.

A lot of this is technical difficulties; humans slow down trying to take in larger scales. But that means a system that could handle this shit cleanly and efficiently would be an incredible find.

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following up on that translation of Newtype

I've done a quick scan of my external drives for "newtype" and then glanced over the pdfs that came up to see if anything was obvious.
No luck.

I have a sinking suspicion it's one or more of the following
a) Labelled something fucking useless like "game-eng.pdf"
b) on my gajillion cd spindles
c) not a pdf

If anybody could do some wayback jutsus or something I'm pretty sure I got it off gameboardgeek many years ago.

Hell for all I know it's up there still somewhere, too.

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gonna dump some covers I've picked up over the years

>>15065994
What the fuck is this and why did I not know about it.

Tell me this is an RPG

>>15066003
>Game for Adult

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>>15066009
there's a bunch of chit-based tabletop strategy games for most of the major franchises and some of the lesser ones, too
Gundam got a shit-ton from First through ZZ at least, and somewhere in the aether and maybe in my stacks is an English translation of "Newtype", one of the First games, the space combat one.
>>15066013
Godzilla had to get pregnant somehow before she washed up on shore dead from diabetes.

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Roll 1d20
1-19: ideonwinslol
20: universe ends, ideonwinslol

>>15066027
>SHOW ME THE WAY TO YOU

>>15066001
>The game of
>space fleet battle
>in the Gundam

I am in love.

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>>15066006

This little dude is pretty goofy

>>15066685
I can't even tell what that's supposed to be.

>>15066685
>>15066718

It's like a Dom/Guncannon with no arms or legs. Poor little guy.

>>15066685
>>15066742

It's basically a tall hovertank.

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>>15065882

Well, I see your point. But, I mean, when you're doing a game that includes mechanized melee combat AND ranged combat... and said ranged combat includes tank-level weaponry... well, what are you gonna do?

Mekton uses 50m hexes, so 20 hexes = 1km.

This is just one more reason I don't like RPG combat to use boards/maps/minis.

So, asking for some fantasy-type players (hey maybe they can escape from pathfinder) in case the anon can't make it here; how about fantasy mechs? What systems might be particularly suited to swords, sorcery, and more robot-piloting than iron kingdoms really offers us?

>>15067556
look up Remnants, it should fit at least some of your needs

Anyone ever heard of Zodia Sunset? I'm looking for a PDF...

>>15067680

Also looking for Atomic Highway (mecha edition)

>>15065659

Exalted 3e has clashes which mechanically is just responding to an attack with your own attack and whoever wins the roll-off gets to deal the damage. Doesn't sound all that impressive by itself(until you go into charms and such that work off it), but the drama can exist in your roleplay instead of diceplay.

That said, in a session a while back of a game I'm in, someone did get thrown into the whole beam-bouncing business when her big beam of death got reflected by a bad guy with the Totally Not Devil Hand. Not sure that one actually involved clashes though.

>>15068514
>Exalted 3e has clashes which mechanically is just responding to an attack with your own attack and whoever wins the roll-off gets to deal the damage. Doesn't sound all that impressive by itself(until you go into charms and such that work off it), but the drama can exist in your roleplay instead of diceplay.

That's not too bad... Gives me some ideas. OK cool, thanks!

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>>15065659

>>15068514
I gotta ask, are the dragonblooded in 3e still as utterly fucked as they were in 2e, complete with "Protection from Anathema charm: this charm is more expensive than the lunar or solar versions, and does not protect you against things of equal or higher essence, or things beyond creation, or anathema." and "does less than just a skill roll but costs willpower" and "automatically fails against charms, sorceries, charm-enhanced or sorcery-enhanced attacks(which is everything you even at least use an excellency or reroll or anything on)" ?

Excepting the cosmic extremes of Gurren Lagann and Getter Robo, what's the largest scale mecha combat one would imagine being playable? Dodekain?

>>15069819
Well, I was once involved in literally rider-kicking an Eldar Craftworld with a transformed looted cruiser (Orks, who else) in RT...

And you can definitely use GURPS to make sure the Macross Elysion can do kung-fu as well as its mobile-trace operator can.

>>15070009

"RT"?

Oh wait, Rogue Trader, yes?

>>15070172
Yeah. Not the best suited to such things though, but most systems can be "kludged".

When it comes to scaling purely as a matter of scale, there's no real limit. You could use the silhouette system saying "one more scale level, x10 here to vehicles" and having 5km space hexes. Or you could just use GURPS.

It's more specific/special themes that are more system dependent: If you want sorcerers and giant robots, you're going to have a harder time of it from some systems than others.

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>>15065659
It's funny you're asking that. A long while ago, I built, with a few friends, a DBZ tabletop system that used BCG as a base, and we made a beam struggle system to use when this kind of stuff happen. Pic related. You're just going to need to convert it back to BCG if that's the system you're using, but it's not very hard.

>Might : Might, obviously
>Spirit : Systems maybe?
>Ki : Definitely Energy

For the Tiers in the picture :
Tier 1 : Normal Beam weapon
Tier 2 : Beam Technique or One Shot
Tier 3 : Technique or One Shot + Genre Power to pierce special defenses, like "I'm Breaking Throught!"

If something says "Require to spend the Ki of the opponent..." or something similar, either ignore it (As BCG only use Energy when you boost) or make it so the energy is needed only if it's boosted.

Not sure how to handle the rock paper scissor system here, so just ignore it.

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>>15070683

Oh cool -- cool as hell. Thanks, /m/8!

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When doing a mecha game, what do you-all think is best?

1.
Always using hit locations
2.
Only using hit locations in cases of special/critical/additional damage results & in cases of aimed/called shots
3.
Only using hit locations in cases of of aimed/called shots
4.
Never using hit locations

???

>>15071708
Hit locations can be fun, but a purely "resulting effect" based approach such as silhouette's can work just as well.

>>15071722
Just to explain (because I'm bored):

With an 'effect' system such as in silhouette, it doesn't matter whether you took a hit in the front of the left knee or the back of the right shin. Rather, with one quick roll, your movement went down by one. As Auxiliary systems include stuff like your manipulators and Aux units though, you may in fact lose a hand if you get such a result anyways.

>>15071779

Yah, I getcha. I think that there must be a happy medium with all this stuff. Speediness, but with a satisfying amount of detail... It's just a matter of an innovative system. I'll get there.

>>15072264
>Speediness, but with a satisfying amount of detail
That IS what >>15071779 is talking about.

>>15072305

That's what I'm talking about too!

>>15072401
One of the big slowdowns that you want to streamline are the whole "hit y/n, if y hit location" part.

If you like dodgy mech action for example, perhaps what you hit by (best used on a % system usually) could be the location, using the tens digit.

0 is an 'armor' hit (mostly results like 'shaken, slight penalty to next) or tiny knockback or other positioning things, with the biggest damage results being slight armor damage. This acts as a "near miss" where you're still successfully delivering things like sticky tracking beacons or the like but couldn't do significant damage.

1 would be light structural damage
2 would be light mobility damage
3 would be light 'external systems' damage, which can include extra sensor modes
4 would be light offensive damage (this includes arms/turrets)
5 heavy structural (light crew hits, big chunks of armor falling off, minor all-around penalties and so on)
6 heavy mobility damage
7 heavy externals: we're reaching "you've just destroyed my main camera!" levels
8 heavy offensive systems damage (danger: CASE recommended)
9 Critical Damage: Many ejection systems may trigger here just to be sure
10 overkill
11 dynamic kill (where the attacker actually gets some kind of bonus instead, like getting to continue through if he wants to keep moving after his charge, etc)

Of course, this basically means that to get an overkill result you had to hit the guy by 100~109%. Even a rookie in a Zaku 1 can avoid this shit while he's conscious.... unless he's facing that much of an ace.

This also allows a slight improvement to general damage rolling system use; you can use +X% on hit to portray particularly nasty or high penetration weapons. It also allows things like haywire to offer, say, a second hit at -50% (if it's below 0 nothing happens after all) instead of needing entire second rolls.

>>15073525
Just as a note; if it wasn't already obvious, this is meant so that things like armor damage also translate into +x% on hit.

If I hit by 12, but the target has 15% armor damage, then that's 27; thus 2: light mobility damage

>>15073525

Not bad, not bad. I've been working on something similar... Sorta. One issue I see is that this system seems to make the toughness of the opponent's armor be based on how hard he is to "hit" -- which is essentially the concept in D&D with Armor Class, ain't it?

>>15073565
No, in this case armor would/could still be armor.

Rather, it's armor DAMAGE that makes you easier to get hit in more critical locations, but only IF you're hit.

If you miss, you miss. The +X% would only add on a successful hit: effectively, IF/WHEN you connect, and their armor is in shambles, the hit location table gets a boost.

Say 'defender wins' but on a % base, so that hitting by 00 means you didn't.

Say their defense (whether that's a dodge or a flat value) was 50, and you rolled 56. That's by less than ten but a hit, so "armor hit".

But he's taken 5% armor damage, so as long as you hit, you add 5%. That means you "hit by" 10% or more, and thus did light structural instead.

This is separate from damage itself; instead what it does is it makes both increasing skill/accuracy AND someone's armor falling apart increase in a way the "same" chance: the chance that you hit the target in a good spot rather than somewhere less important.

A sniper may do critical damage easily to unaware grunts, but if he shoots a grunt who's already so beaten up his reactor's visible through the left side, chances are that grunt goes nuclear right then and there.

You could say it's increasing hit severity.

>>15073587
To complete the combo here, I'll take a shot at damage dealing.

The previous 'hit location' system is just a generalized location and severity check. The actual resulting damage 'table' result is of course your damage roll.

>Accuracy / Severity both alter the danger level of a hit. You want 0s, you don't want 10.

Damage rolls as per the weapon modified of course by armor itself.

>Big damage means more likely to cause the highest grade results of wherever you hit
>High armor helps against this

>Big accuracy means more likely to hit places the other guy did not want hit
>Mobility/piloting and the INTEGRITY of your armor help against this

Armor has two components.
>Deflection reduces the maximum rolls: Deflection 2 against a weapon that uses d8s would mean all 8s and 7s count as 6s.
It cannot drop an attack below half the max value of the dice (so d8s have a limit of 1-4, with 5 of 8 die faces giving 4s). This means you still need some thickness to deal with incoming weapons.

Deflection averages 0 for light recon things to 2 for tanks, but is quickly altered by positionals: A hull-down tank entrenched is probably at deflection 4-5, while a deflection 2 mech who's been imbalanced by an armor or structural result might be at 0 or 1 deflection against the next incoming hit.

Threshold is a direct damage reduction to the total. Very important. It tends to remain steady; primary ways of upping it are cover, multiple layers (Shields, A shield, then armor keep you pretty fucking safe while they last), and generally won't drop without heavy structural damage.

Armor Piercing is of course a thing; it affects both. Its rating directly attacks threshold to a minimum of 1, and weapons with 2+ reduce deflection by 1 (just once), with a second if they ever overflow threshold to -1 or worse.

The damage table would be the result in a manner similar to the critical tables of dark heresy, rogue trader, etc.

>>15073626
This of course opens the path to things like specialized armor (+1 deflection against lasers for the mirrored chrome crystal crap) and so on.

Damage examples can range from 1(you got through armor, yay) being a -1 to something on a light hit, with the heavy offensive table's 10+ or 12+ or whatever being ammo/capacitor/generator explosions, which of course not only destroy a particular system but also probably nuke something a-la "and roll a heavy structural 2d6 damage result ignoring armor" or something.

Main drawback here is the need for a nice big set of reference sheets. It CAN keep the game running fast, but you NEED those references or you'll be flipping back and forth in book.

>>15073587
>>15073626
>>15073634

I can't help but wonder... Do you actually have a mecha system already? All this seems a little too thought out to be something you're coming up with off-the-cuff. Is this a game you're playing?

>>15074415
no?
It sounded like you were trying to come up with stuff so I was winging it.

>>15074495
So just running with the idea the whole time?

>>15074495

Pretty impressive then, sir. Indeed I am trying to come up with stuff. You are, I guess, just pretty good at coming up with ideas off the cuff. It's appreciated, don't get me wrong!

>>15074967
Well, if you need more ideas...

It's not like I had a specific set of dice (a lot of people prefer using certain dice over others, like how a certain RPG has always been heavily focused on a d20 and d6s.) so it's a little iffy up there, but the die types are a big factor when coming up with the rules as they determine not only the range but the reliability and averages of any given roll (and thus also how much of every action is "left to chance").

>>15075708
>die types are a big factor when coming up with the rules

Certainly true. As a longtime Mekton player, I'm partial to the D10, but I've also come around to thinking that mmmmmmaybe Fuzion's 2D6 is a better choice -- in certain applications, at least.

The tricky thing about an all-inclusive mecha game is that the scales vary so widely. A game that can handle Ideon and Votoms can potentially run into problems where an enemy mech is actually terrain for a smaller mech; it's reach might be farther than the small mech can run.

No wonder SRW crunches all the mecha into SDs. They're dodging the scale issue.

>>15076525
>No wonder SRW crunches all the mecha into SDs. They're dodging the scale issue.
bingo

>>15076525
>>15076547
Actually, SRW does use sizes, and they do mean a lot more than they do in, say, d20, but it's still limited.

What they DO crunch is the sizes into "everything one square", because technically the LL supercarrier has many advantages and some disadvantages over the SSS megazone power-armor bike.

That said, if you don't want to need a calculator for your to-hit and damage rolls, you're going to want to stick to a certain damage and style if you want to be able to go in depth without slowing things to a crawl.

You can make a game where shit destroys on an R-Type level, or something more VOTOMS where a soldier with a pistol that barely blows small rocks apart can put a hole clean through an armored mech torso, but when you try to mix the two of them, you might have trouble keeping the system streamlined.

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There aren't enough out there available in english

>>15076646
Anyone have experience with some of the ones not discussed at length in here? Like, how playable is palladium's nowadays? What would likely be a better alternative for macross?

>>15077589
Palladium is garbage. Honestly I find something fast and loose works better for Macross since it's focus generally ISN'T the mechanics.

>>15077589
Palladium is generally not very good on a mechanical level, but the fluff is full of interesting ideas

Tomorrow I'm joining a new mecha tabletop RPG campaign, it looks to be a hell of a ride.

Confirmed party members are "Basara if you replaced Fire Bomber with JAM Project", a fairground greeter android that patched itself with military programming to fight for justice and my character, an Amazonian-physique lesbian engineer piloting a mech based on Gunleon

Together this gang of idiots will try to secure the independence of the colonies...

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>>15077589
>>15077595
>>15077604

Palladium's fluff is good, their system is legendarily bad. I've played it, and yes, it's very bad.

However! There's now a Savage Worlds version of Rifts, so suddenly it has a bearable alternative system. So... good news, I'd say.

For Macross gaming, though, I dunno man. Mekton Z had the Macross Plus mecha statted out in a magazine once.

>>15077699

Sounds fuckin' fun! What system?

>>15077734
It's Battle Century G, as we're all familiar with it. The setting looks like a mix of Dougram and Mass Effect, with Heavy Gear style mecha, weird aliums and Earth not approving our independence from their Federation.

>>15077589
>>15077733
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0B2MWVpzB0HSIcjdnbjRXMDVxS28

This folder has almost everything Macross statted out in Mekton. I think all it doesn't have is capital ships, probably.

But I agree with the idea Macross works better with something fast and loose, with a more cinematic angle. Macross has never been all that techy, and operates much more on rule of cool than even Gundam.

>>15077733
>However! There's now a Savage Worlds version of Rifts, so suddenly it has a bearable alternative system. So... good news, I'd say.
hopefully we'll get SW books for some of their other settings as well, would love to be able to run Splicers in a system that isn't jank

>>15077749
Except their armor.
The armor in Macross has generally followed the rule of rock/paper/scissors: It's paper, rocks smash it, and scissors cut right through.

>>15077749

Interesting. Thanks for sharing!

Those new scales (x3, etc) are janky though.

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>>15077749
>>15078356

I don't agree that "Macross has never been all that techy." It's may not be as techy as, say, Metal Skin Panic Madox-01, but I would definitely not say it's any less techy than your average mecha show -- and a lot more techy than your average super robot show. More techy, by far, than original Gundam, which is followed by only 2 years.

>>15079781
It gets less techy as the franchise goes on. Original SDF was pretty damn techy, then shit just went "fuck it, transformers and magic."

>>15079796
Actually in some ways that's realistic.

Consider what computers used to look like in your father's (okay maybe your grandfathers for most people on here... gods I'm old) time.

Now consider what they look like now, and how many less people you need in the room.

Or how we used to have the ground crew spin the propeller up for us on old aircraft.

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it came

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>>15080019
it has hexmaps and stuff in the back too

Oh nice!

A new era begins...

>>15080026
Is this some sort of... "roleplaying" in "the gundam"?

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I personally believe that you don't need an indepth mecha creation system for a good /m/ RPG. Customization is fine, yeah, but you need to keep things restrained for the sake of balance and congruity.

A system to build a GM or a Zaku used for real robot games is fine; same for a system used to build Mazinger and some Robeasts. But a system meant to build both is going to be incredibly unbalanced for a multiplayer RPG.

At the end of the day, in my opinion, you can and should restrict mecha creation for the sake of play-ability.

Does anyone have a link to mekton zeta and zeta plus I can't seem to find them

>>15080105
The smoothness of play is the *only* limit to vehicle creation for a mecha RPG. The deeper and more comprehensive it CAN be, the better it is to people who can and do spend hours jiggering everything in the hangar in FM5 or Armored Core.

>>15080019
>>15080026
I've got that book, too. The system is a slightly modified version of Mekton Zeta. So between knowing MZ and the differences shown here http://pastebin.com/tF9kj2qU you can easily decipher how to play it without even knowing Japanese.

Anyone else a huge fan of the old 2ed Battletech/Mechwarrior setting and mechs?

>>15080394
I'm a big fan of the Succession Wars era, I'm one of those grognards who hates pretty much everything from Clan Invasion onward.

Which is pretty funny when you consider it was Activision's Mechwarrior 2 games that got me into Battletech in the first place.

>>15080394
I remember back when the Marauder was a Glaug.

I want a Variable Glaug...

Why are LAMs so bad.

>>15081144
>Why are LAMs so bad.

LAMs are so lame they can't even afford an 'e'.

>>15080026
>>15080096
>>15080203

Once anon scans the book, I can contribute some translations.

>>15080191
>The smoothness of play is the *only* limit to vehicle creation for a mecha RPG. The deeper and more comprehensive it CAN be, the better it is to people who can and do spend hours jiggering everything in the hangar in FM5 or Armored Core.

Agreed! This is the goal.

>>15081290

Although it would be nice for the GM to be able to create enemy mecha quickly.

bump?

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>>15077733
What !? Kevin Siembieda actually allowed a version of RIFTS in another system? I spent years trying to talk him into an OGL version. Which would have been a license to print money.

>>15083182
Wait, you've actually worked with Siembieda before?

>>15083182
>OGL version
Kevin was in the right to refuse.

>>15083429
Yes and no. Anon IS right that it would've been printing money especially when 3.5 was just coming out.

From what I've always heard, though, Siembieda is utterly insane and works on RPGs with the same attitude a bond villain works on his doomsday device.

>>15083858
>Siembieda is utterly insane and works on RPGs with the same attitude a Bond villain works on his doomsday device.
Sounds about right.

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>>15083429
>>15083858

He had good and bad reasons for not wanting to but the main thing seemed to be he was afraid of losing control of his games. And he thought the whole thing was unsustainable which turned out to be at least partly right.

But when I was talking to him about it there was nothing like the kitchen sink, sci fi/fantasy, setting for Rifts in the OGL market and people were already looking for sci fi settings. And Rifts had name recognition and would have been fairly easy to convert. If we had moved fast, put out a pretty hardcover with a good cover I think it would have sold like hotcakes.

But Kevin was afraid of cannibalizing his players and being left with nothing after the OGL boom collapsed.

Palladium's sales had fallen quite a bit from the dizzying heights of the early days but what was left was very loyal and had rather anti-DnD aspects to it.

>>15085029
.... .... ....
did this come first or did the Tau Crisis Suit?

>>15085073

No, the Ulti-Max suit came first. And, like many Rifts artworks (and Kevin Long artworks) a lot of it is bitten from various anime mecha sources. (Madox-01 and other Studio Artmic designs in this case.)

boomp

Uh oh, I think we passed the bump limit

There were some people shooting around the idea of how many it'd take to crew a mech.

So, how many players would you be willing to "co-pilot" a single mech with?
How many secondary PCs would you be willing to micro-manage during a skirmish?

Just fyi, I'm not farming data to make a system, just comparing/contrasting /m/'s opinions/feelz.

>>15086676
It's hard to get more than two people to work together on that. It's partly a matter of giving up choices, but also to avoid "what we do next" problems.

For example, when you have a pilot, a gunner, a shield engineer and a 'commander', you're basically down to one person firing, one person doing pilot/dodge checks and moving, one person doing little more than repair rolls all the time, and someone buffing one of the others barking out orders.

This is fine when you're at work.

But you wanted to play a game.

>>15086681
I'll take that as possibly rping with 1 other player-crewman.
And preferring to either have automated or npc crewed stations since cross-indexing multiple crew-stats is more work than fun.
Though I'm assuming quite a lot here.

Anyone else?

This is why Combiners are interesting. Having a buncha players who each get to pilot their own unit, who then have to switch gears to work together to handle major threats. It's a fun thing to explore.

>>15086681
I would probably pan it out so that more pilots = more moves. So each player could potentially all do an attack on one turn, and maybe one of them would have to take up their action with a move or something.

>Want to run a game that's primarily ground base movement with maybe some Battletech/OYW Gundam style jump jet assisted movement

>'I want it to be like Ace Combat, only with robots that fly all the time. Also melee is overpowered can you please nerf it? It gets in the way of my Going Fast.' Also, I don't like Macross , transforming is lame.

>Wants to use a battle map despite going hypersonic speeds

I should just get rid of my players

>>15087405
>I want a system that can do even one of these things right
Your suffering is not over

>>15087405

I also forgot

>hates missile massacre and beam spam

What the fuck are they expecting, to fly thousands of km past each other making pot shots for five hours?

>>15087408

Yeah no kidding.

I like Battle Century G/Z, I'll probably stick with that. But my goal was to have a game more like Front Mission or Super Robot Wars Original Generation, not this weird simulation of fighter jet dog fighting only with robots.

>>15087415
>hates ma...
OH MY KEISAR-EPHES WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH HIM

>>15087425

He likes Ace Combat and that's his only exposure to plane simulators or arcade games, and he's never played a mecha game before so he assumes they just replaced planes outright in whatever setting they're featured in. Naturally, this means giant robot humanoids should go super fast, even if they're FUCKING HUGE and not aerodynamic at all.

What system would be best for a Nanoha-like game?

>>15087450
dang, I still gotta watch that shizzle

>>15087450
I've seen it emulated reasonably well in FATE, but there's probably something better out there.

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>>15087450

>>15087948

Yeah, that does seem right. Goddamn, is there anything that hasn't been made into an RPG?

>>15087978
Technically? No.

>>15087978
Are we counting indie, third-party, and fan works?

>>15088863

Sure, why not

>>15089069
Then no.
Pretty much anything and everything has been made into an RPG unless it's too recent to have had one yet.

All that matters is MECHA GAMES

BREAKING NEWS:
DP9 is reviving Jovian Chronicles, this time around in a fleet scale miniatures wargame called Jovian Wars.

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/201440/Jovian-Wars--Alpha-Playtest-Rules-Package-v1?cPath=73_124

I sencerely doubt this is the right thread to ask, but just as an off shoot question, anyone know if there is a good game similar to the Super Robot Wars or SD Gundam battle tactics games for mobile phones? I cant seem to find any that fit the bill.

Thank you in advance.

>>15091352
This is a thread for tabletop games.

>>15091352
what phone do you have? chances are you can emulate g generation overworld on PPSSPP for android

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02IKWkypZR8

>>15091359

Thanks for pointing that out after I said "I sincerely doubt this is the right thread to ask..."
Im glad you can read.

>>15091363
Galaxy S7.
Thank you for the tip

>>15091374
If you know this wasn't the place to post, then why did you post?

>>15091383

Because its the best place to post at the time, according to the catalog.

I could have started a different thread just for one little question, but that seems a little silly.

>>15091393
>an unrelated thread is the best place to post
K.

>>15091326

meh

>>15091326
MUH INTRUDERS AND LANCERS

... and I guess those big robot things as well.

>>15091972

What and what?

>>15092667
Two of the jupiter fighters. The Lancer is their mainstay; relatively light but sitting on a mission pod bigger than it is (Think IgLoo's orbital-drop Di Ze'Gok)

The Intruder is a tiny little thing with a stealthy UV laser and low overall emissions; meant to more or less take advantage of all the EM crap going on in a battle to coast quietly and burst-fire-snipe targets, unload its missiles when it's noticed and get the hell out of there.

What would be the best system to play Metroid or something like it?

giant robits are cool

i wanna play dem

Are there any noteworthy /m/RPGs on Kickstarter right now?

How are the spaceship rules in Fragged Empire, if anybody knows?

>>15095701
>Fragged Empire

The what now?

>>15095746
It's a fairly recent space setting and system (uses 3d6+modifiers, fate points for rerolls).

>>15095701
The system's customization is... extensive, but not very deep? Not bad though.

Basic Overview:
Rolls are 3d6+Mods. All 1s is obviously bad. Every 6, though, gives what's called a "strong hit": These can be used to trigger crits, reroll that 1 that's marring your roll, and use a wide variety of special abilities depending on what traits you, your equipment or your ship have. If a target is out of endurance (people) or shields (ships) you automatically crit, and instead can spend a strong hit on "boost" which increases the damage by 1.

Damage is split in two: Endurance/Shields and Crit. When endurance or shields are out, you get various penalties. It's also enough to take down mooks.

Crit goes directly to stats which go from 1-5; 3 is a "good" average (3 strength is a rookie cop, not one who's been to Tim Hortons every day for twenty years). Any stat going negative makes you "bleeding" / "on-fire". Armor reduces this directly, so you do have to watch certain combinations; if you make micro swarm missiles they could easily just bounce clean off the heaviest ships. Balancewise you'll be hard-pressed to get it up to more than 4, but the heaviest weapons can get a crit of 5, maybe 6 with the right conditions or a 'boost'

>>15096097
Customization is in the form of 'Traits'. Characters get one per level, ships, it's part of their cost (Influence is one of your stats). Every trait gives various bonuses, and every stat (including level, resources, influence) and skill can have one trait; though the combat and vehicle control ones can have two. You can pick a trait even if you're not trained in that skill (actually getting trained in skills, save for 1-2 traits, is pretty much set at character creation, and turns that -2 into a +1). Traits range from giving +1 to a handful of other skills (usually NOT the one the trait was on the list of), bonuses to things like attacks, to getting new strong hits, and a lot of combinations of the two. That is how you grow your character.

Ships are built just like characters for the most part: No ship is sold without at least the basics like life support, jump-drives, shields, and so on, but they come unarmed by default. Every stat (Size, Hull, Engines, Crew, Power, CPU, Sensors) can have a trait, and you also of course arm it. Each trait adds 5 influence to the cost of the ship, though. You can start with them, to represent stuff that's currently in need of repairs/replacement/etc on an old junker, or just locked out.

The combat phases are pretty decent. For ships there's a movement (command) and a systems phase. In the former the faster you're going the higher your initiative, while for systems the ship's CPU affects it instead. There's several actions per system, only big limitation is that for the most part you cannot repeat an action that's succeeded (if someone fails repairs you can try'em too); including weapons individually.

>>15095421
There's a new edition of Mekton on kickstarter that's something like 3 years behind schedule and may never actually come out.

>>15096149
One complaint I'd give the system is that space stuff is NOT suited to starting characters all that well:

Base cost for any ship is 10 influence: your influence stat is 3 at level 1, and the maximum is your level + 2 + any traits you have for that, but gaining it comes from adventuring and/or research: Where your Resource stat represents how much personal gear you can pay for and keep operational (kind of like Rogue Trader's profit factor), your influence is your ability to get docking berths, steady logistics (your ammo and supplies are refilled when you dock at friendly ports, kind of vidyagame style) and whatever jump fuel your ship uses.

While I say cost, it's allocated, not paid/lost.

So 4 starting characters can normally start with a basic nothing-special-at-all ship with either a point-defense turret (1 inf) or a minelayer (2 inf). Which is okay, but they'll all be 8-9 sessions in by the time they can afford a proper cannon for the thing (I don't mean optimized, I mean getting to add regular ship gun).

Fighters cannot be used from game start if you wanna go that way: you have to FILL that influence up, and need 5+ to get the "my baby" influence trait which reduces the cost of a ship by 10, IF you're the only person putting influence into it. Just making it an unarmed fighter will cost you the 5 you have to spare (size trait: heavy fighter). So, starting with fighter pilots or the like is out of the question.

However, if you remember this or work around it (like starting higher up or maybe just lowering the cost a bit), in practice fighters go rather well, and as it turns out a mixed game works damn well too:

You have less influence to work with for either ship, but the actions are still there. A Fighter gets a free command (piloting) roll, so that you have piloting and your actual action still every turn. Weaker ships, and the firepower doesn't go higher, but the total combo is a little more resilient.

>>15096635
>it's allocated, not paid/lost
Handy. That's the kind of helpful abstraction I like to see in these games. If I wanted to constantly keep track of funds and resources, I'd play an accountant, not a pilot.

>>15096654
Indeed. It does need a little adjusting on the resupply stat (your fuel/food/etc) since even a short-hop down a ley-line to the nearest star system is basically going to leave a standard size-3 ship half empty. Being easy to houserule does not mean the problem does not exist, but it's at least very easy to adjust to your table's playstyle.

Ship combat is actually less lethal often enough than Traveller: weapons are knocked out when your hull stat drops beneath their mounting value, so the average guns (Mount 2) on an average ship (hull 3) are 2 damage in the right location (1d6 for which) from being KO at least temporarily. What's WAY harder to knock out, unlike in Star Trek, is FTL. Charging the jump drive is an action, but not one that prevents anything else, so as long as it's not *full* you can get it close just in case.

My current character's fighter (she's a little bioship with a long-range burn-through style continuous beam cannon) can actually send a destroyer or battlecruiser packing rather reliably (obviously if THEIR main batteries hit it won't be pretty though) but can't really kill one solo; they can almost guaranteed jump to safety, though they'll be in dry-dock several weeks repairing that.

Fun Combo:
Warheads (missiles OR mines) have a trait you can take whereby if it MISSES, you can choose to detonate it (instead of letting it try again next time) and slide the target one space in any direction. Mines automatically attack if something gets into two spaces (they can't move but they have range 2 instead of 'melee' like missiles). Something that gets close to one mine could be forced to trigger a lot more than one by using this.

Another warhead trait gives 'tweak trajectory' strong-hit for operations rolls: anything from a jump-success or lock-on or even just LAUNCHING your next volley of the things can apply it to move any existing fighter or warheads you own by two spaces.

Evil with torpedoes and minefields.

>>15096632

LOL

>>15096632
>>15096814
While not an RPG there's also that Armored Core board game that lost the license to use Armored Core but is trying to move forward as its own original IP.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/223137030/armored-coretm-rts-a-real-time-strategy-board-game/description

Also not kickstarter specific but speaking of failed games, there's the new edition of the Heavy Gear RPG that hasn't had any news announcements in nearly a year.

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I just found this...

https://www.mechabrick.com/

A minis wargame that uses specialized Lego-compatible minis.

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>>15097796

There's also Mech Deck, another minis wargame. It uses cards and modular minis whose Armored Core-style parts connect using magnets -- pretty clever!

https://boardgamegeek.com/image/2447657/mech-deck

Well, after everyone was ill last week it looks like my mecha campaign is starting tomorrow.

And the guy who was making a Basara knockoff has gone full Macross 7. His latest message:

"So my mech has a guitar-based control system and shoulder mounted speaker pods, so people can listen to my song"

Admittedly he has actual guns too (so it's perhaps more Delta than anything else).

Either way the hype is real now.

>>15098087
Basara's Excalibur had both a Gunpod and missiles.

It's just the warheads he'd replaced.

>>15098087

Do all your players lack originality?

Is Mekton really that much more popular than the Mechwarrior/Battletech/Citytech suite w/ you gentle/m/en?

>>15099068
I can't speak for everyone else, but personally yes.

My issue with mechwarrior is that it's fairly... specific in its playstyle. Big lumbering machines are what it lends itself best to, and it's better as a tactical game than as an RPG. Which is fine, just, not what I want for RPG night, it's what I want for minis gaming.

Mekton's a lot better suited to RPG-time.

>>15099074

Exactly right.

Also, Mekton is designed to emulate anime. Batlemechwarriortech is explicitly designed not to emulate anime.

Mechwarrior isn't exactly Phoenix Command now, guys.

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>>15099587

Well of course, but like >>15099074 said, BT lends itself to lumbering big 'uns, and is more of a tactical game.

Phoenix Command is... insane. I hear tell that when the creators were asked, "Seriously, you guys, the game is so complicated, surely when you play it you can't be using all those rules. You must play a simplified version, right?"

Reportedly their answer was, "oh no, the published game is a simplified version of what we play."

!!!

Has anyone tried the Basic Roleplaying Mecha game out?

If so, how does it compare to other mecha games?

>>15100583

I'm curious too. Seems like the license expired and the game is no longer for sale, though. I'd assume used copies can be found on eBay or whatever, and I'm sure someone has a PDF somewhere.

Okay, we've really reached the bump limit now.

New thread!!!

>>15100770