Are the Mobile Armors are going to be like non-piloted Zoids?

It'll probably get destroyed next ep and confiscated by Rustal to upgrade Vidar in the future.

Are all Mobile Armors going to have weak beams?

>>15016655
>weak beams
weak memes

>>15016678
he's right though, Hashmal's cannon was just a weak beam rifle

>>15016678
>blasts a trench in some rocks
vs
>a OYW machine jury rigged with 4 Rick Dom reactors destroying half a mountain

>>15016697
Weak beam rifles don't blast mile long trenches in the rock, anon.
>>15016700
>it's weaker than FUCKHEUG CANNON therefore it's totally weak
Think *really* hard and post any examples of standard "blow a hole in a Zaku in one shot" beam rifles ever doing any kind of damage like that. The only things you're going to find are decidedly FUCKHUEG weapons like Twin Buster Rifle, Raiser Sword, Burst Modo, Satellite Cannon, NukeZooka, and weapons that are built out of empty colonies.

>>15016655
>weak beams

what is this, the new 9/11 conspiracy? Jet fuel cant be ignited by weak beams?

>>15016715
Using UC as the baseline the Aps 3 is on the lower, and weaker spectrum of MA and weapons. Beams only get stronger after the OYW.

mobile armors are a joke if such a "powerful" threat can't beat one suicidal grunt unit.

>>15016736
Yeah, the FUCKHUEG weapons get bigger, like the Mega Bazooka Launcher, the High Mega Beam, and so forth. No "normal" beam weapon ever had an effect like that rock tunneling, much less a "weak" beam.

Face facts, it was a powerful shot. Not the most powerful shot ever, but far more powerful than regular beam rifles that can one-shot early UC mobile suits with less than a second of exposure. And that powerful shot lasted 25 full seconds.
IBO suits have god-tier anti-beam coating, and people who want to continue to shit on IBO suits as if they're "weakest ever" are ignoring clear evidence and/or moving goalposts to avoid admitting that a shot that pierced a mile of rock in five seconds couldn't pierce a Shiden in twenty-five seconds.
Fact, Jim, FACT.

>>15016736
The Apsalus 3's beam does ridiculous amounts of environmental damage compared to what a beam rifle is shown doing everywhere else. Apsalus has a beam cannon meant to bore into and destroy Jaburo, not an ordinary beam weapon by any means. Normally beam weapons either aren't shown doing environmental damage at all or the damage they do is very localized to the area that they hit.

Hashmal's beam appears weak because the nanolaminate on a mobile suit stops it, which is what nanolaminate is fucking supposed to do. IBO's MS tech is built around the assumption that they have anti-beam countermeasures that actually work.

>IBO fans really think beam weapons are decent in this timeline
You now whose beam also blows through rocks? Baragon and he's considered the second weakest Godzilla monster after Manda.

>>15016766
Beam Rifles are weak beams because of power and size limitations, something as large as a MA should have a powerful beam not something stronger than the weakest beam weapon. People bring up what it did to the surrounding dirt, like that makes it really strong or that it's a great way to measure effectiveness.

>>15016780
>weakest
>Not Minilla or Kamacuras or Gezora or showa Moguera or Varan

>>15016788
According to Toho Kingdom and Kaiju Phile fantasy matches weight is important and Baragon is a light weight compared to most, Manda is just slow and easy to stomp on. Most Gamera and Mazinger monsters can't beat even the weakest Godzilla monsters solely due to weight difference. Also Gezora and Moguera from The Mysterians are not Godzilla monsters.

>>15016798
don't forget Super Sentai! Their mechs are lightweights compared to Toho and Ultraman monsters.

>>15016758
That's saying a lot more of the characters that think that than the actual Mobile Armor itself.
>"Mobile Armor's are dangerous, we need to be careful"
>meanwhile it's predictable as all hell through basic observation, sucks at long range engagements with their snazzy beam-dispersing paint, and gets distracted by large enough shots that barely even scratch its armor
I'm pretty sure a good number of the disappeared majority of the 72 Gundam frames are from people scrambling to get a seat among Gjallahorn than actual MA casualties.

>>15016766
It feels kind of weak from a narrative perspective, though. Sure, it's objectively an incredibly powerful weapon. But if it can't threaten our heroes, the most it can do is cause collateral damage. That makes it a lot harder to see as genuinely impressive, because IBO is a more character-driven story than a plot-driven one. Collateral damage doesn't matter unless it winds up killing someone the character care about. I think the Hashmal's beam would be a lot better received if it could destroy a mobile suit with continuous exposure. Brief contact, fine, nanolaminate can shrug that off, but you can't just stand there and get hammered. Mobile suits are meant for high-mobility combat, after all, they're not supposed to stand there and get blasted for half a minute, so it fits with the setting. You could have Iok's squad killed that way instead of being swarmed by the Plumas. Show their armor eroding away under the blasts, make a really cool scene. That way, together with the collateral damage the Hashmal causes, it feels like this beam cannon is a genuine threat. Make it less "of course nanolaminate can handle it, it's no big deal" and more "you need nanolaminate just to survive getting close to this thing, stay on your guard".

>>15016766

> Mega Bazooka Launcher, the High Mega Beam, and so forth

I don't recall either of the two of them doing any more damage than the Hashmal's beam honestly. The High Mega Beam Cannon (assuming he's referring to the ZZ's head cannon) did destroy a building on a Moon base along with tunneling through at least a few hundred meters leading up to it, but I don't recall either doing anything that puts them too far ahead of the general curve of UC weapons. The Apsalus' destruction of a mountain comes off as really out of place because it's so much more than any other UC beam, never mind a One Year War one, which it's supposed to take place during.

>>15016780

What has Godzilla got to do with Gundam?

>>15016814
>What has Godzilla got to do with Gundam?
Long standing franchises from Japan owned by Bandai featuring giants that represent war on an unrealistic and surreal level

>>15016818
But that has nothing to do with what's being discussed.

>>15016818

Godzilla doesn't really represent war though. He represents fallout and catastrophes and disasters in general rather than war. Also >>15016824

>>15016824
Actually the point was weak monsters cause just as much damage as the supposed "strong" beam Hashmal used

>>15016678
>>15016697

IBO shitposting is getting out of hand.

>>15016837

And Starkiller Base can blow up several planets at once. And that's a machine using a beam. It's got fuck all to do with Godzilla, monsters or Gundam, but then neither does a Godzilla monster having a stronger beam have anything to do with Gundam.

>>15016848
mobile armor beams in IBO are still weak, Star Wars ain't relevant here

>>15016782
>Beam Rifles are weak beams
This statement invalidates the assertion that the Shiden only survived due to the Hashmal's beam being "weak". By placing standard beam rifles in this category, you concede that the Shiden is immune to the majority of beam weapons in every iteration of Gundam.

But let's continue the dance anyway, shall we?
>People bring up what it did to the surrounding dirt
Showing environmental damage of this nature is pretty much reserved for emphasizing how powerful a weapon is. That's why there are so few examples of large amounts of real-estate being destroyed by a mobile weapon, it's an acknowledgement only given to the most powerful weapons.

Consider also that the Shiden's rifle was destroyed within the first two seconds of the blast. This is not a flimsy wood or stone structure like the buildings at the agricultural plant, this is a large artillery weapon constructed to milspec. The rifle did not survive a "weak beam", in fact it did not last any longer against the Hashmal's beam than any other rifle hit by a beam in any other show. Will you now also claim that IBO's beam rifles are flimsy compared to every other show just so you can continue to deny the fact that the Shiden withstood a 25 second burn from a beam no less powerful than the RX-78-2's rifle? Bear in mind that conceding this is tantamount to admitting that the RX-78-2 could not possibly destroy any MS in IBO.

>>15016616
Just because bullets can be stopped by armour doesnt mean that bullets are weak

The same can be said for beams

Ride took the hit like a champ and it still destroyed a fucking town. Just because armour made specifically to be resistant to beams is resistant to beams doesnt mean beams are weak.

>>15016886
Tell that to >>15016655 >>15016697 >>15016678

>>15016851
>This is not a flimsy wood or stone structure like the buildings at the agricultural plant, this is a large artillery weapon constructed to milspec.
Cannons actually are pretty susceptible to thermal shock warping their barrels. Combine that with the ammo cooking off and you could probably destroy a mobile suit-scale ballistic rifle with any beam weapon. Doesn't invalidate the general point that this is a strong beam, I'm just saying that it isn't a good example.

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>>15017021
Is not like they want to listed anyway

>>15016806
Sure, sure, and I get it. But the story says that nanolaminate was made to counter this and it was so damn effective that people just stopped using beam weapons all together.
The thing is that even with it, the mobile armor is still a massive threat because beam attacks aren't its only weapon, just the weapon it uses to accomplish its main objective which is kill humans.

>>15017144
This. The mobile armor has shot like all of twice. When it wants to kill a suit it just stomps on it or sends its horde of sub-armors it apparently has a built-in factory to construct.

>>15016805
>majority of the Gundams are missing because pilots kept fighting over glory points
Would explain why they have that tradition of MS duels instead of more sensible actual duels with 10 paces or something.

>>15017044
Bet they're the same people who say shit about thin abs-piston.
Now it became funny that these fragile looking IBO MS can't be harmed by most SEED MS.

>hey
>hey guys
>why dont we make
>an AI that wants to kill humans and nothing more
>what can possibly go wrong

>>15017234
Sounds like an efficient weapon, I'll take ten.

>>15017234
Well that's the thing. Someone clearly built it for some purpose. Could be the Cosmo Babylon thing and they wanted to exterminate the broader populace to leave only a master race, could all be a ploy this glorious leader McGillis worships dreamed up in order to knock down his opponents and then he swoops in to save the day. We still have a whole other cour to find out.

>>15017215
ZGMF-Ginn to the rescue?
Also the Moebius and Exus mobile armors all have railguns so they can actually do serious damage to IBO suits in space

Whole thing seems stupid to me, up there with the Akatsuki actually reflecting beams back at the shooter. That IBO beams apparently produce less heat than napalm, or even less than kinetic weapons. Yeah UC had anti-beam coating, that outside of Crossbone provided limited protection to a beam. It wasn't taking a beam head on and it deflects off the side, it was diffuse a glancing shot. How about GN beams, they could be dispersed with certain anti-GN grenades enough to make an area relatively safe against most beams but it had limits especially against high powered or highly concentrated.

Why make beams if it's meant to kill humans? I mean usually beam weapons are developed to melt giant metal men instead of roasting flesh

>>15018340

Efficiency I suppose, since it's a continuous beam that can be just swept across an area and destroy all it touches. Rather than damage it via bullet holes or whatever.

>>15018340
Wide area damage I guess. The MA were supposed to be like WMD I think, not just killing individual humans, but doing massive damage to population centers and such. Maybe the beam was for punching through shelters full of people hiding or something. And don't forget that most likely nanolaminate wasn't a thing when MA were first made due to no MS yet so the beam was probably raping battleships and more conventional military vehicles.

Then the MS got made with their anti-beam armor and the MA's fell back to their melee options (So far the Hashmal hasn't intentionally used its beam on an MS. It raped everything so far with its claws and pluma. Ride just jumped in the way when it was targeting the farm).

>>15016780
The beam just looked cool and had nice sound effects.

>>15018356
I guess that makes sense. The only concern left is the power source. That beam has to run out of juice sometime.

>>15018383

It's capable of constructing support vehicles that almost certainly have their own power supply (as opposed to receiving wireless power a la the Aestis in Nadesico) so it can probably cannibalise other power supplies it comes across in military bases or urban centers it attacks to keep itself topped up.

>>15018376
>>15018380

>>15018383
>>15018387

Did you guys watch the episode.

Mcgillis spoonfeeds the audience that the MA has to continuously re-supply because it has no ahab reactor and Plumas are there scavenge and recycle materials to do so.

>>15018554
I did. Just didn't click with me on how it could resupply energy specifically for the beam. But the other anon helped me makes sense of it with pluma's power source.

>>15018554
He didn't say that it had no Ahab reactor, he said Ahab reactors can basically produce power for centuries on end but the machines still need to be supplied with things like fuel and propellant, just like MS do.

>>15017374
This.
Napalm can burn it off but plasma cant?

>>15018707
I assumed the Plumas required gas, not the MA.

Does nobody consider the idea that the beam is simply a thermal ablation weapon which is why nanolaminate is so specifically effective against it? If hashimal shows up shooting fire that burns the shit off were gonna see huge casualties.

>>15018714
Based on the context in the setting, fuel gets used mostly for the thrusters. There has been numerous times where barbatos and other ms ran out or low on fuel and there thruster stopped. Like with the spinner rodi or barbatos in the second episode. Maybe the MA isn't really flying because its still low on fuel.

>>15018713
The napalm is probably something designed specifically to work against the nanolaminate armor, sort of like how the armor works against the beam. Given the kind of deflection we see when beams hit the armor, I bet the beam itself doesn't even touch it really, so there's no thermal energy transfer beyond the heating of the air.

>>15018748
Based on the visuals it does seem to get deflected but then the ms is revealed to have been charred and was "steaming". I dont think no contact would just produce those results.

>>15016758
They give exposition (not excusing that...) that the beam weapon's 300 years old. That's 300 years of armor tech to counter it.

It's retarded but feasible.

>Space Shuttle
>Can re-enter at Mach 25
>napalm will still probably fuck it to death
Not hard

>>15018788
Its retarded in that if they have a direct, effective counter measure to beam weapons, beam weapons fall out of usage then any counter measures would also fall to the wayside.

>>15018794
Even then it's still damaged after use, so it could be possible for beams to flake it off like physical rounds do.

>>15018819
The counter measure also doubles as an increased defense against ballistics and other physical weaponry so they kept using it.

>>15018838
Well yeah. I doubt ride could have taken another three seconds.

>>15016735
>Jet fuel cant be ignited by weak beams?
BEAMS CAN'T MELT NANOLAMINATE ARMOR!

>>15016806
>It feels kind of weak from a narrative perspective, though. Sure, it's objectively an incredibly powerful weapon. But if it can't threaten our heroes, the most it can do is cause collateral damage. That makes it a lot harder to see as genuinely impressive, because IBO is a more character-driven story than a plot-driven one. Collateral damage doesn't matter unless it winds up killing someone the character care about.
>>15017144
>Sure, sure, and I get it. But the story says that nanolaminate was made to counter this and it was so damn effective that people just stopped using beam weapons all together.
>The thing is that even with it, the mobile armor is still a massive threat because beam attacks aren't its only weapon, just the weapon it uses to accomplish its main objective which is kill humans.
>>15017160
>This. The mobile armor has shot like all of twice. When it wants to kill a suit it just stomps on it or sends its horde of sub-armors it apparently has a built-in factory to construct.
Exactly, the Beam is just it's "Fuck EVERYTHING ELSE" weapon, for harden Military Targets it has Piledriver Claws, a Whip Sword Tail, and hordes of Plumas to physically fuck shit up.

>>15017247
>Well that's the thing. Someone clearly built it for some purpose.
Yeah, I have a feeling there is far more to the MAs that what meets the eye...

>>15018713
>Napalm can burn it off but plasma cant?
>>15018748
>The napalm is probably something designed specifically to work against the nanolaminate armor, sort of like how the armor works against the beam.
>>15018766
>Based on the visuals it does seem to get deflected but then the ms is revealed to have been charred and was "steaming". I dont think no contact would just produce those results.
Napalm also specifically STICKS to whatever it's burning, while the plasma of the beam is mostly being reflected away.

>>15018888
It still makes contact you know.
The same thing as the space shuttle. Most of the heat is deflected but it's fucked after a single use.

>>15018766

Ride's suit is steaming, buttons doesn't look even slightly charred to me.

>>15018851

It looked like he could have taken another 3 hours of it.

>>15018745
Yeah, the Ahab Reactor-powered suits appear to still use reaction rockets, so even with all the power in the world they'll still run out of thrust without resupplying. Which is actually a weakness compared to other Gundam series, most have the ability to switch to jet propulsion when in atmosphere for unlimited reaction mass. So IBO is way ahead in anti-beam coating tech, but way behind in thruster tech.

>>15019113

When is it detailed that any mobile suit has the ability to use unlimited thrust in atmosphere? I cast doubt, not least because simply having jet engines wouldn't allow that given that jets still need fuel. So if they can, they have special jet engines.

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>>15019099
It's blackened in some areas

>>15019142
>When is it detailed that any mobile suit has the ability to use unlimited thrust in atmosphere?
There's GN drive equipped units in Gundam 00, but that's about it IIRC.

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>>15019162
Looks more like a 1-I

>>15019142
>>15019163
Also MS with Minovsky Craft System or it's upgrades.

>>15019162
>I'M FLAAAA~ME BROILED!

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>>15019180
You could say he's toast.

>>15019208

I thought only the Minovsky drive was reactionless, and that the craft system used regular fuel but just not as much as normal systems due to air cushioning?

>>15019263
Yeah my bad. Craft System can only float without thrust.

>>15018713
being in the vacuum of space means; there's nowhere for the heat generated by the napalm to bleed off to. The ship's hull temperature would just go up and up and up as long as they keep firing napalm at it. Also it depends on what the "napalm" is actually made of. Thermite, for example, burns at around 3,000 degrees F.

Also...and this is something that Gundam likes to overlook a LOT, mobile suit reactors are supposed to be low-temperature reactors. Minovsky Reactors are actually (accordig to fluff) basically Muon Reactors (a real thing) with Minovsky Particles instead of Muons. IRL, Muon-Catalyzed Fusion can happen at room termperature, but the problem with them is that it takes more energy to create the Muons that keep the process going than the reactor can possibly put out an the Muons decay so you need a constant input of energy to keep the reactor running. Minovsky Reactors conveniently produce a surplus of minovsky particles and therefore make low-temperature fusion practical. In most UC designs the pilot is more or less sitting directly over the reactor, so they can't actually be very hot.

BUT they also like to have beam weapons and beam sabers burn through things, so basically you aren't going to get this shit to make sense no mater how you look at it.

>>15020026
Beams use charged versions of Minosvky Particles, called Mega Particles. Minovsky particles themselves are mostly harmless.

Anyway, we don't know shit about any mechanisms here. What kind of beam weapons they had/have, if it's just a wonkey Ahab wave or particle reaction that makes it work.

Can the beams destroy Mobile Workers? Is that how Orga eventually gets himself a fucking MS instead of staying in his shitty mobile worker.

>>15020095
>we don't know shit about any mechanisms here
True. Almost.
We can infer that the operational temperature of Ahab Reactors can't be much higher than any other mobile suit reactor type because the pilot sits right next to it. Maybe a little hotter since they like to go shirtless, but not nearly the temperature of irl nuclear reactors.

I point this out only because the debate about napalm vs plasma seems to revolve around people assuming that reactor plasma MUST be hotter than napalm and it's actually entirely possible for the plasma to be less than 100F and the "napalm" to be 3000*F. Well...maybe not 100*F since it did instantly start fires at the agricultural plant, but the point remains that the "napalm" could easily be hotter than the beam.

>>15020103
>how Orga eventually gets himself a fucking MS
He has one. It's that white Shiden with the commander's horn that they called "The King's Throne" a couple of episodes ago. He;'s just been too busy being a suit to pilot it.

>>15019162
The Ms is also still fucked from the blast, the screens were flickering and systems clearly took a hit. I wonder if it could take another shot or not. Also this is the latest version of that armor right? Back during the calamity war i bet a MS was still fucked from that shot.

I wonder when/if someone is going to make an uptodate beam weapon now. I mean really, 300+ year old weapon still did that kind of damage, some one , like me, would have to think " bet we could make that better today, like the armor."

>>15020026
I thought it's the miniature I-field of the reactor that blocks the thermal radiation from not boiling the pilot.

Beam sabers arent actually beams. They use the minovsky particles to set up an i field and then fill it with supercharged minovsky particle plasma. The i field is broken on contact with solid objects and the plasma is funneled toward the surface melting it away.

>>15020150
I get what you are saying but i assumed that since the plasma is used as weaponry it should be quite hot.

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>>15016616

>>15020150
Two words; thermite napalm. I would bet my next paycheck IBO anti-nanolaminate napalm has a very large portion of suspended thermite in the composition.

>>15022453
maybe