Mecha RPGS: /m/ meets /tg/

A copy of the list follows.

Mecha Roleplaying Games
====================
Aegis Project, The (three eras of mecha)
Anime Hack, The (includes mecha)
Apotheosis Drive X (FATE-powered mecha RPG)
Armageddon 2089: Total War (OGL D20 mecha mercenaries game)
Armature (homebrew)
Armored Trooper VOTOMs (Mekton/Fuzion)
Backland Stride (homebrew)
Battle Century G (new iteration of Giant Guardian Generation)
Battle Century Z (followup to Battle Century G)
Battlechangers - A Quick Play Transforming Robot RPG
Battletech - A Time of War (Mechwarrior 4th ed, from Catalyst)
BESM - Big Eyes, Small Mouth
BESM D20 (includes rules from D20 Mecha)
Big Robots, Cool Starships (mecha for BESM, part of core BESM book since 2nd Ed.)
Bigger Bads (supplement for Monsters and Other Childish Things)
Bliss Stage: Interim Stage
BRP Mecha (for Chaosium's Basic Role Playing system)
Bubblegum Crisis (Mekton/Fuzion)
Cartoon Action Hour (can emulate Transformers, Gobots, GI Joe, MASK, etc)
Chromestrike (homebrew)
Cloak of Steel (fantasy mecha by Postmortem studios)
Cthulhutech
Cyberpunk 2020 (powered armor in “Maximum Metal”, Cyberwalks in “Solo of Fortune 2”)
D20 Mecha (from White Wolf)
D20 Mecha Compendium Deluxe Edition (from Dream Pod 9)
Daikaiju Die! (Pacific Rim style RPG)

>>14990477
Mecha Roleplaying Games (continued)
=============================

Dark Horizons (D20 robot mecha post-apocalyptic warfare)
Doom Striders (standalone D&D mecha)
Dragonmech (D20 fantasy mecha)
Exosuit A-OK
Fullmetal President: White House Mecha Chaos
Gadget Guide: Mecha (Mutants & Masterminds)
Gear Krieg (Silouhette system; mecha in WWII)
Giant Guardian Generation (homebrew; precursor to Battle Century G)
Giant Transforming Robots (more Cartoon Action Hour mecha)
Going Japanese (for Cartoon Action Hour)
Gunwave
GURPS Mecha (includes setting “Cybermech Damocles”)
Heavy Gear (Silouhette system VOTOMs)
Infinite Mecha (rules for Infinite Frontier)
Iron Kingdoms (RPG of Warmachine miniatures wargame)
Jovian Chronicles (Silouhette system U.C. Gundam)
Kaiju Patrol (for Fate Accelerated)
Lunar Reckoning 69 (homebrew)
Machine: Overdrive (D6 Zen system)
Macross II (Palladium)
Maruader 2107 (terrible)
Mecha [“Chris Perrin’s MECHA”] (from Heroic Journey Publishing)
Mecha & Manga (Mutants & Masterminds)
Mecha Aces (FUDGE system)
Mecha and Monsters [Tiny Frontiers] (RPG coming from Gallant Knight Games)
Mecha Clash (supplement for Heroes In Time)
Mecha Construction Guide (for Pathfinder system)
Mecha SRD Extreme (D20 mecha system reference document from Ronin Arts)
Mecha G-Core (FASERIP Marvel-inspired G-Core; Xenomorph Invasion & Cybermorph Invasion)
Mecha Omega (D20 OGL mecha and kaiju rules)
Mecha Smash (RPG from Starbright Games)
Mecha vs Kaiju
Mechagenesis : The True20 Robotic Roleplay Sourcebook

>>14990480
Mecha Roleplaying Games (continued)
=============================

Mechamorphosis (D20 transformers)
Mechwarrior (old Battletech RPG from FASA; 3rd.ed. by FanPro as “Classic Battletech RPG”)
Mekton Z (Previous editions: Mekton II and Mekton. New edition, Mekton Zero, is in limbo.)
Metal Wars (Cartoon Action Hour’s supplement for their version of Transformers)
Musha Shugyo: Hyper Armor (mecha supplement for Musha Shugyo)
O.R.E. Mecha (One Roll Engine)
OGL Mecha (via RDP)
Origin of the Species: Transmechs Revisited (Spycraft 2.0 transformers)
OVA: The Anime Role-Playing Game
Planetfall (free, no-prep RPG; has many Mecha Manuals)
Psibertroopers (D6 Classic system, “Dead Night of Space” line)
Remnants
Rifts (Palladium)
Rifts [Savage Worlds] (Rifts using Savage Worlds rules)
Robot Gladiators (more Hero/Champs mecha fare, followup to “Robot Warriors”)
Robot Warriors (Champions/Hero system mecha)
Robotech (Palladium)
Rune Stryders (fantasy mecha)
S.I.Net. (sentient transforming mecha RPG ala live-action TF movies)
Savage Worlds’ Science Fiction Companion (has mecha rules)
Sentai Spectacular! The Ultimate Guide to Playing Sentai Superheroes
Shifter Bots (mecha and transformers RPG)
Space Ninja Cyber Crisis XDO
Super Fun TV Hour ( Super Sentai RPG)
Super Happy Sentai Hour
Steel Roses: The HeartQuest Guide to Mecha
Super Mega Ultra Mecha Fighting for You, Me, and All of Our Friends (for PFRPG & D&D 3.5)
Tears of a Machine (teen angst & giant robot drama)
Tenra Banshô Zero
Tetsujin Shogunate [Gossamer Worlds] (Diceless)
Tokyo Heroes (Super Sentai RPG; has mecha rules, of course)
Ultimate Vehicle, The (Hero 5th edition)
Vanguard: Varmisk Fallen (mecha piloted by furries)
Vesna Thaw (Soviet post-apoc salvaged mecha GMless semi-competitive story game)
Weapons of Mecha & Power Armor Destruction (for D20 Future)

>>14990485
Mecha Minatures Wargames
======================

5150: No Quarter Mecha Combat (from Two-Hour Wargames)
Adeptus Evangelion (homebrew doing Evangelion with WH40K rules)
Armor Grid: Mech Attack! (miniatures wargame)
AT-43 (miniatures wargame)
Battletech (miniatures wargame)
Big Damn Robots (miniatures wargame)
C.A.V. (miniatures wargame)
Digital Mecha Wars (tactical wargame; looks kinda silly)
Dust (miniatures wargame)
Exalted (White Wolf anime-esque fantasy; has mecha called Warstriders)
Giant Monster Rampage (toy battles wargame, has giant robot rules)
Heavy Gear Blitz (Silouhette system)
Infinity (manga-influenced minis wargame)
Iron Tyrants (minis wargame)
Iron Warriors (miniatures wargame)
Konflict 47 (WWII carries on, with mechs; Bolt Action system)
Quantum Legions: Vanguard (miniatures wargame)
Mech Attack (miniatures wargame)
Mech Brawl (homebrew)

>>14990488
Mecha Minatures Wargames (continued)
===============================

Mecha! (minis wargame with some storytelling elements)
Mecha Front (miniatures wargame)
Mecha War Ultra (miniatures wargame)
MechaForce Tactical Combat Game
Mekatac (miniatures wargame)
MetalKrushers (mecha gladiators tactical board game)
Mobile Frame Zero (wargame using Lego minis)
Mobile Suit Gundam Skirmish (free homebrew Gundam minis wargame)
Relic Knights (card-system miniatures wargame)
Robot Jocks (mecha gladiators card game)
Robotech Tactics (Palladium)
Strike Legion (miniatures wargame)
Valkyrie (miniatures wargame)
Wardogs (miniatures wargame)
Warhammer 40,000 (Adeptus Titanicus especially)
Warmachine (miniatures wargame)
Wehrmacht (diceless mecha miniatures wargame)
YAGRAG [Yet Another Giant Robot Apocalypse Game] (miniatures wargame)

>>14990493
Other anime, manga, and mecha-ish games
=================================

Anima Prime
Black Tokyo (hentai horror & ero-guro)
Bounty Head Bebop (Cowboy Bebop & Outlaw Star imitation)
Colonial Troopers (OSR game with powered armor and some mecha content)
Damage Control: The Advanced Disaster Department RPG (GMless)
Demon City Shinjuku RPG
Dominion: Tank Police RPG (uses BESM’s Tri-Stat system)
Dual! RPG
El-Hazard RPG
Fantaji – Universal RPG
Fight! The Fighting Game RPG
Fight! Unlockables: Shonen
Fushigi Yugi RPG
Godbound (has fantasy Mecha in the full paid version, not free version)
Hellsing RPG
Kazei 5 (anime cyberpunk with mecha for Hero)
Living Steel (features powered armor; extremely complicated rules!)
Maid: The Role-Playing Game
Monster Force Terra (play a kaiju!)
Musha Shugyo (another Fighting Game RPG)
Nova Praxis (post-singularity RPG with really fancy enhanced interactive PDF)
Open Anime
Otherworlds Zero (Maybe? Might be lame. Looks like “Destiny.”)
Panty Explosion
Project A-Ko! RPG (has a modicum of mecha rules; early Silouhette game)
Revolutionary Girl Utena RPG
Sailor Moon RPG
Serial Experiments Lain RPG
Shonen Final Burst
Slayers RPG
Sparks of Light (magical girls RPG)
Stars Without Number (OSR game w/ robots & mechs - in paid version, not free version)
Super Gachapon Fighter Omega Infinity!
Tenchi Muyo! RPG
Thrash (fighting games & shonen)
Tokyo Brain Pop (psychic schoolgirls)
Trigun RPG
Trinity (White Wolf’s dark sci-fi, previously “Aeon”; has VARGs)
Valor: The Heroic Roleplay System

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Again, the above list can be found at:

tinyurl
(dot)
com
(slash)
allmecha

4chan thinks the link is spam. Now let's talk about giant robots and the games that love them!

>>14990476

I'm a big fan of both /tg/ and /m/. So far I have mostly been focusing on Mekton Zeta as my system of choice. I like how in depth the building process is, and I always liked the basic mechanics of R.Talsorian games.

I'm starting to conceive of a new campaign heavily inspired by Macross and Ideon, with an interesting time travel based reveal about the world that the campaign will be set in. It will be set in a solar system with other humanoid life, including humans, whose origin will be part of the big reveal. I might even give the PCs a means to do an Ideon styled universe ending conclusion( though I wouldn't force it).

I've been trying to come up with a way to make the mecha I use distinctive though. It is really easy to make a not-GM or a not-SPT or a not-Scopedog, it is harder to come up with a concept for my own mecha.

My other planned campaign is a kind of Patlabor/Dominion Tank Police kind of set up, set in the future of SE Asia, where most of the landmass has been submerged by water, so most of the humans have migrated to under water settlements. The PCs would be a paramillitary police force using purely underwater based mecha to deal with everything from CIA sponsored terrorism to under water mafia crime.

>>14990476
I had a lot of good experience with Mutants and Masterminds for mecha, with the Mecha and Manga expansion of course. I also have Chris Perrin's Mecha on hand but I've yet to run a game using that system.

Speaking of which, I didn't really play an /m/ tabletop rpg for a long time... perhaps it's time to change that.

>>14990619

That underwater cops campaign sounds like a goddamn hoot, man. Love it! And as for coming up with a distinctive concept for the mecha in your setting(s), it can indeed be difficult. I might suggest choosing some real-world theme and using it as a starting point. Maybe dog breeds, maybe the Tarot, maybe famous philosphers. I'm not talking about using the names, more about trying to identify trends and classifications you could apply to mecha conception.

>>14990639
I have issues with M&M's system, but I do want to check out their Mecha&Manga book. I tend to like their fluff. Chris Perrin's Mecha is also on my to-read list. Actually, I should make sure I have it first. And yeah, the world needs more /m/ tabletop RPGing!

I'm curious about anyone's thoughts on how to do the more Super Robots stuff in RPGs.

Most of the /m/RPGs I've seen lean more towards Real Robots -- which is understandable, since they tend to adhere a teensy bit more to "logic" than Supers.

>>14992019

One of the GGG games may be good for that. I think that less strict gameplay mechanics would work best,so something like Fate where you can add on stuff to your mechas sheet at some point in a game when you and the GM have decided that you've learned some new finishing attack.

>>14990869

Thanks! I feel like that one would be easier to make original mech for, since few settings are entirely underwater based. I'll look into trying to find some real life classification systems that may be analogous to what I want to do with each setting. It may be fruitful.

>>14990476
We should make an exodus from 4chan to rec.games.mecha

Our holy land calls, we have been away for too long

>>14992302
>rec.games.mecha

Jesus, I didn't even know rec.games.mecha existed! Gonna go check it out now...

OK, just joined. Yeah, it's pretty dead. As an experiment, I'm gonna post the list to it.

>>14992492

Hmmm. Looks like my post didn't work.

>>14992302
>rec.games.mecha
I really need to get usenet going on my machine again.

I used grabit for downloading files, but what's good for normal browsing?

>>14992528

Interesting question. I'm using groups.google.com at the moment, but my post didn't work through it so I gotta try something else...

/m/ how the fug do we run a OYW or AC game?

>>14990488
Adeptus Evangelion is an RPG, not a wargame. It uses Dark Heresy as a base, not the main WH40k rules

>>14993055
Ah! Thank you. Good point.

>>14992668
OYW or AC can be done with Mekton and Jovian Chronicles.

You guys should check out Mecha space pirate quest on /qst/ we've been using Mekton as our system and we're doing a tourney with anons sending in designs

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html?tags=Mecha+Space+Pirate+Quest%2C+Collective+Game%2C+mecha

>>14992668
http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/Running_Mobile_Suit_Gundam_in_Mekton_Zeta

http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/Gundam_Senki

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People who play Traditional Games don't want Mecha Games.

>>14993164
>People who play Traditional Games don't want Mecha Games.

I actually don't think that's true. I think the right (i.e., well-done) mecha RPG hasn't been produced yet.

someone should convert gihrens greed into a tabletop game

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>>14993123

>>14993276
Let me know what you think of it anon

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>>14993279
Remember the last time someone posted a homebrew in /tg/?

Yeah, the thread became a shitshow because nobody wants this kind of thing. And if they do, they want Adeptus Evangelion

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>>14993164
Hey fuck you, we like our Imperial knights and Wraithknights just fine.

The one who always sprouting bullshit was either /k/ or falseflaging /pol/.

I even use 1/100 Dijeh as my Wraithknight because fuck GW and their overpriced shit, Bandai is far better at making mechs.

Has anyone tried out ACE Mecha RPG? Its a homebrew system that I've seen posted about on /tg/ from time to time, but I'm not sure how far its come, or if its even still in progress.

>>14993287
>ACE Mecha RPG

Hmmmm. I don't think it's in the master list seen here >>14990476 which makes me curious about it!

>>14993287
Don't.

> http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/50392224/

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>>14993307
And shit like this is why we're sure nobody wants a Mecha RPG.

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>>14993307

>>14993325
It's not the most up to date version.

This is: https://mega.nz/#!LV1W2SYS!909osZCJHdNP-tJOgZFLDKt8WnWYBMh4vUYGhSNc0Wo

>>14993330

Oh hey ACE-bre! Thanks man. Sorry the thread linked went south, but I appreciate you chipping in. As you may have guessed, I'm working on my own /m/ game.

What do you, sir, think about Mekton Z and Battle Century G? (Right now I'm reading Bliss Stage, which is a trip.)

>>14993344

Say not any of those three names.

Actually Mekton is fine. It's completely unbalanced and combat works on a single godstat, but if you like that sort of thing go ahead.

>>14993344
>Sorry the thread linked went south

more like, the OP fucked off, but, sure, we can go with that.

>>14993307
God damn lol

>>14993347

I think each of them has contributes valuable ideas to the field of /m/ games

>>14993344
If you want to use Mekton Z, a long while back I made a Google Sheets robot sheet that automatically calculates as much as possible for you.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gvDPNflvd2b8T2kbIKfXVssPfPnM84Kz42ucJwmo_Xo/edit?usp=sharing

It makes things dramatically easier.

>>14993385
I mean, I'd respect for him for promoting his stuff, yeah?

if he didn't fucked off for most of the thread, avoiding questions.

kind of gives folks the wrong impression, you know?

>>14993437

What questions. It was a bunch of people shitting on me and trying to get me sued.

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>>14993415

Ooooh!

Okay, I added ACE to the list at tinyurl dot com slash allmecha.

Thanks for sharing the PDF, ACE-bre. I look forward to reading it!

I downloaded the VOTOMS RPG awhile back but looking at it, theres waaay too many skills and stuff
When I go to /tg/ I go the OSR general, so you can imagine my tastes. Is there any mecha game for me?

>>14993542

I totally agree that Interlock/Fuzion (Mekton, Votoms, Bubblegum Crisis) have way too many skills. That list could easily be houseruled down though.

im about to just buy gundam senki online and just scan every page for everyone

its been more than ten years and everyone claiming to translate it has either not delivered or has posted incomplete partial fan translations with no raw scans for others to help translate with.

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I wonder how possible it'd be to make a Fafner game?

Would it be Island Defense/R&D focused game?

>>14993574
Awesome! You'd make many people very happy. I know it uses Mekton as its base system, but has a lot of modifications.

You post the scans, I'll post the translations I've accumulated.

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>>14993574
>>14993585

You guys do that, you'd sure as heck better cross-post to /tg/ as well!

>>14993347
>It's completely unbalanced

That can be fixed through GM discretion and light house ruling.

>and combat works on a single godstat

No getting around that without heavy houseruling, but it isn't such a big deal since different skill scores will still differentiate players.

>>14993440
>shitting on me

hey, you're the OP, right? riddle me this, why did you run away from the thread, as we started asking questions about the use of artwork?

why did you run away, as soon as we asked for credibility?

surprised you're still around, lmao.

>>14993584
Funnily enough I think the best way to run Fafner is to use Bliss Stage. Just, you know, heavily modified both mechanically and (obviously) fluff-wise so it's not complete shit.

>>14993834
Just to clarify: I'm implying it's Bliss Stage that is complete shit by the way, not Fafner.

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To me, Bliss Stage almost seems like it's best suited to M3: The Dark Metal.

Since we're talking about mecha games here, just wanted to mention that some anon is trying to kick off a roll20 Gundam game if anyone is interested

>>14989065

>>14994165

Nice. Thanks for the linkage.

>>14990502
>Again, the above list can be found at:
>tinyurl
>(dot)
>com
>(slash)
>allmecha
>4chan thinks the link is spam. Now let's talk about giant robots and the games that love them!

bumpage

>>14993558

A game can't be houseruled unless you're already familar with it and understand what can and should be adapted to your playstyle. A game which needs a houserule from the very start can't effectively be run by a new GM and thus is inferior to one playable out of the box, even if a grognard GM can run it to better suit them.

>>14993645
Aside from what I said above, the issue with godstats, particularly in complex games like MZ or Exalted, is that it wastes design space and adds unneeded busywork. You can say 'oh just give everyone DEX 10 and go from there', but you've essentially cut off all the other stats from honest use, added a huge stat point penalty to the game you need to compensate for, and you're overlooking the guy who wants to experiment with the games mechanics and make Brick McBrainStrong, the guy who wants to make a DEX1 STR10 END10 SMRT10 guy because that's an interesting concept to him.

It's an attitude that to me, looks more like you want to have access to the MZ mech construction rules, and are willing to abstract the character construction rules to get to them. And not everyone wants that, some people want characters to be a focus and mechs a disposable thing they use in combat because thats the setting. And the fact that MZ doesnt' accomodate those people scuppers its reputation as the one-stop Mecha RPG,even if it works for you.

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I *am* currently working on an actual RPG.
Pic kinda related.

>>14993574
>>14993585
>>14993604

ordered it

it should arrive around january 5 ish

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>>14996049
Who'd you steal that one from?

>>14993645
Tell me how you houserule out 'put everything into Dexterity or else be inferior'.

>>14990497
>Black Tokyo
>Chris Field

don't go there man
that way lies madness
madness and phallus space

>>14995772

This seems backwards. If you want character focus then there should be no problem, only one stat is focused on mecha combat. Others like empathy, intelligence, etc are all about the character doing non combat related things which will bring out RPing the most.If you are running a game with characters as the focus then MZ is great because 9 out of 10 stats are more conducive to RPing outside of mecha combat, rather than them all being combat oriented.

That and the skills matter so much in MZ that even if everyone's combat is being based on the same stat, their difference in skills is what is going to differentiate their character. The guy with high ECM and Missile skills, but low melee and gun skills, will be radically different from the person with high psi and melee skills, but no missile or gun skills.

In a game like D&D is makes sense that DEX, STR, and CON will be your main combat stats, and maybe will or int if you are a magic user. Mekton has PSI to cover magicy stuff, and unfortinately when you are in a mecha you are no longer using your own body, so how tough you happen to be or how strong you are is just irrelevant. Now when you get out of your mech your body will matter, because you are now operating your own body to do a task, not a robots body.

>DEX1 STR10 END10 SMRT10

The MZ stats are

INT,REF,COOL,EMP,TECH,BODY,MA,ED,ATT,LU


>>14996302

Chop up REF into two stats, a dodge stat and an aim stat. When assigning points to REF you can take that number of points x2 and divide them into each.

The other ways to be superior while having lower ref are A. have really good TECH so you can design better mecha than everyone else, B. have better INT so your ECM skills ruins their chance at detecting you or hitting you, C. have a strong PSI stat so that you are OP via newtype hacking, even though your base ref is not great, D. take on many extra years in your life path to gain more combat skills at the risk of bad events happening along the way.

>>14996683

> how tough you happen to be or how strong you are is just irrelevant.

Actually I should qualify this. Since in MZ how tough you are will determine how well you handle electric shocks and getting your mecha trashed. So Brick would actually be decent design choice in a setting where mecha get destroyed allot, even when the pilot has high ref ( think cheap but powerful and advanced homing misses) Brick could focus on ECM with his high intelligence and be tough as fuck, wrecking his enemies' missile barrages and coming out fairly ok even when they finally get him. Where high Ref pilot on the other hand will do great until that time when an enemy gets a lucky hit on him and he dies from the impact.

>>14993330
>>14993347
>>14993440
Hey, you're that faggot who lost his shit when people criticized his homebrew then actually expected people to give you money.

Fuck off.

>>14993454
You should remove it, ACE is a douchebag and a cunt and doesn't deserve the attention.

>>14996302
Remove Dexterity from calculations and treat it as if all pilots had a static value of let's say 8. The simplest solution is the best one here.

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>>14996189

>>14996285
>>14996727
>>14996730

Oh calm down you guys. You don't like him or his stuff, just ignore him. He hasn't done anything bad in this thread.

I plan on checking out his game because I'm checking out every mecha game I can. Once I've given it a look-see I'll decide if it's worth my time.

>>14996801
How about cut all difficulties in half remove attributes completely and make the system fully skill based?

>>14996876
Yeah no.
(Besides, it would be "reduce all difficulties by 10.")

>>14996814
well, not in this thread, but--

> http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/49310380/#49350241

in any case, it's your call.

>>14996890
Here's a question, what do the attributes even add that couldn't be covered by skills? Are they really that necessary, or do you want to keep them just because the attribute/skill dichotomy is a RPG sacred cow?

>>14996814
>He hasn't done anything bad in this thread.
In THIS thread. Over on /tg/ when he asked for "feedback" the first thing he did when he got it was get mad and tell people to fuck off and make their own games.

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Haters gonna hate.

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Besides, it's never been about the quality of my game, or even my handling of criticism.

I had the gall to go "No, fuck you, read the book" when people didn't read the rules while also talking politely with people who did read.

Of course, the 14 year olds from /tg/ didn't like that.

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>>14997235
>saying this

complainers gonna complain.

>>14996950
>Here's a question, what do the attributes even add that couldn't be covered by skills? Are they really that necessary, or do you want to keep them just because the attribute/skill dichotomy is a RPG sacred cow?

Now now, don't go assuming things.

The reasoning behind having Stats and Skills is that you can add a Skill to different Stats in different circumstances. Interlock (Mekton and Cyberpunk) did a poor job of explaining this, but it was made much clearer in Fuzion. It's supposed to applies to Interlock, too, though.

Here's an example:

Let's say we've got an Fuzion character named "Johnny Sacredcow." He has a REFlexes of 10, a DEXterity of 8, a TECHnical of 6 and an INTelligence of 4. He has a Firearms skill of +5.

When Johnny Sacredcow is in a quick-draw showdown with another character, he adds his Firearms skill (5) to his REFlexes (10) and rolls to see if he shoots first. His roll in this case is 15+1D10.

When Johnny Sacredcow is lining up a long-distance shot to snipe some target, he adds his Firearms skill (5) to his DEXterity (8) and rolls to see if he hits his mark. His roll in this case is 13+1D10.

When Johnny Sacredcow is trying to fix his malfunctioning weapon, he adds his Firearms skill (5) to his TECHnical (6) and rolls to see if he can get his gun working again. His roll in this case is 11+1D10.

When Johnny Sacredcow finds a strange, new gun, he adds his Firearms skill (5) to his INTelligence (4) and rolls to see if he can remember or figure out what company made it. His roll in this case is 9+1D10.

It's a way to avoid HUGE skills lists, have variety in your character's capabilities, allow characters to have different strengths in different areas, etc.

Well, I for one am gonna read ACE-bre's work (after I finish reading Bliss Stage, which is a trip) and then I'll make up my mind.

Also, anyone here played Apotheosis Drive X?

>>14998713
You forgot the base roll of stat + 1d10 for situations where the character does not have the applicable skill. Also allows for simple application of situational modifiers like performance enhancing drugs, tranquilizers, stun/pain weapons, high stress, illness, injury, etc. A strong stimulant might enhance Ref and Movement Allowance but interfere with Int-based skills that require concentration and patience. Listing all the affected skills separately would be cumbersome compared to the simplicity of "Ref +2 MA +1 Int -1 Cool -1".

I played a lot of different pen-and-paper RPG's from original basic floppy-book D&D to G.U.R.P.S and Interlock/Fuzion has my favorite skill system hands-down.
(not to mention that glorious Mekton Technical Manual / Mekton Zeta Plus tech-design system that lets you build anything from a wooden club to a hugenormous spaceship).

>>14997246
I don't know what's worse, your ego or your stupidity.

Either way, how's that Patreon coming along?

>>14998713
Speaking of Fuzion, hands down the best way to play Mekton Zeta is just to play Fuzion with Mecha built with MZ.

>>14993585
I'm eagerly awaiting anon, I really like mekton z for gundam games, but then again I also love msv and ms variants. I had a lot of fun playing with some anons from /m/

>>14998832

Generally true, yeah. Fuzion has a couple of shortcomings, but it's got many strengths too, which improve on Interlock.

Personally, I'd ditch the Movement stat (I've almost never seen it used) and just base running speed on a Ref + Athletics skill test. I'm also on the fence about Attractiveness as a stat -- it's kinda more of an Option (ads/disads) thing, I'd say.

Still in all, Fuzion definitely works better than Interlock. I mean jeez, just for the better Stun Damage rules alone...

>>14997246

OK I'm looking over ACE a bit. So far it looks normal. I know all the artwork in ACE so far is placeholders, that's obvious. Clearly, before any sold product gets made, you'll commission new art. That's totally fine.

But I will say this, ACE-bre...

You'd be wise to call your "Lifepath" something other than Lifepath. Game rules can't be copyrighted, but terminology sure can. And Mike Pondsmith will almost definitely sic his lawyers on you if you use that term.

There are other cases in the book where you might run into similar problems. :-/

>>14998959

Thanks for the advice, but I talked with some lawyers- there's no way Mike Pondsmith will have a legal ground to stand on if he does that.

>>14999276

Uh huh. Ohkayyyyyyy

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>>14999276
>there's no way Mike Pondsmith will have a legal ground to stand on if he does that.

>>14998959

Reading further through ACE, I find it surprising that you (ACE-Bre) dislike Mekton and Battle Century G, as I can see elements of both in ACE. I also see similarity to Heavy Gear/Jovian Chronicles, as Silhouette's weapons also deliver damage multiplied by margin of success.

>>14999636

OTOH, I like the mechanic of critical damage effects resulting from maximum damage rolls. Impact for solid, haywire for energy, and overheat for supreme is pretty slick.

>>14999636
>I find it surprising that you (ACE-Bre) dislike Mekton and Battle Century G, as I can see elements of both in ACE.
Shitty people will often shit on their competition instead of letting the strength of their own work speak for itself.

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>>14999815
>Shitty people will often shit on their competition instead of letting the strength of their own work speak for itself.

I can't tell if that's defensive self-deprecation... or if you're calling me shitty for making an observation.

Jeez dude, I even complimented you in my next comment. (About critical damage effects.)

I'm not gonna let your poor attitude affect my assessment of your game... But you sure as hell don't make that easy, bro.

>>15000717
That's not ACE-Bre, dude, that's just the stalker from /tg/ trying to stir shit

>>15001395
There's more than one person from /tg/ here that remembers him. He's gotten kind of infamous.

>>15001395
>>15001405

Ah. Whoops. You're right. My bad, ACE-bre. I thought it was you. Very silly of me. Apologies for jumping to conclusions. Anyway, still reading ACE!

>>15000399
Cthulhutech is a neat setting with AWFUL AWFUL mechanics and splats that should be willfully forgotten as even existing.

Play it in anything but the core system and it can be a blast.

>>15001768
I've heard that the new version of the rules is a fair amount better going off the beta(although they haven't released Mecha rules yet to my knowledge), as for setting, I've also heard that they're ditching or modifying a lot of the stupider bits that were introduced in the books after Core and Vade Mecum(although the stupid parts involving the Dreamlands being eaten by an OC DonutSteel Great Old One and most of continental Asia being destroyed by the Rapine Storm are unfortunately still in to my knowledge)

but yeah much like Shadowrun and anything from Palladium Books, you're better off using systems besides the one it's made for

>>15001814
Hopefully they'll fix the issue of mechanics so disjointed it's practically a different system for every aspect of play. That, I think, was Cthulhutech's biggest issue.

>>15001405
and he actually hates that.

but hey, the more frustrated he gets, more reasons why we shouldn't get /too/ involved with him.

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>>15001918
They're free to hate me- this is 4chan, after all.

Anyway, the rules are more or less finalized- what I'm working on now is an actually setting book based on things I like in my sci-fi: A not utopian but still pretty nice future society; people attempt to get past the hatreds of recent conflict; transhumanism done better than Gundam Seed; and invading Space Aliens who are basically humans with extra bits and a weird culture.

have a browngirl.

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>>14999636
Oh no, I don't *dislike* them. I think they have major, major issues but also some very good ideas. I save my scorn for things that are purposefully unbalanced because of biased creators, have questionable fluff and setting choices (Bliss Stage), or both (Cthulhutech)

Have another brown girl.

>>15001957
>>15001971

Delicious brownness is delicious!

Thanks for the clarifications, btw. And hey, I've been reading more of ACE and I like some parts of it quite a bit. The different Ace Styles are especially promising.

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In some mecha games -- actually, in some games in general -- I've observed a phenomenon where characers (or mecha) can gain special advantages, or use special traits, feats, or attacks, when they have taken a certain amount of damage. This is to represent desperations, or final attacks, or things of that nature.

The thing is... wouldn't the player then LET himself (or his mech) take the damage? That's not true to most (virtually all) the source material. It's not like Wolverine lets himself get hurt so that he can go berserk and kill everyone.

Just wondering what mechanics people like for handling this type of thing.

Does anyone here know where I can download mekton's rulebook?

>>15002266

I would just make it so that is GM controlled rather than set up mechanically according to rules. Or you just trust the player to rp right.

>>15002266
The are only two ways to control this sort of thing. One is to get a group of players together that are not interested in powergaming. Two is to make losing health a bad thing in itself, with obvious mechanical penalties after the battle is over with, long-term consequences, rather than something to welcome with open arms. Example being, while the mech may go berserk and destroy the enemy, the pilot is now further burdened with mental illness or insanity, and closer to being removed from the game.

>>15002453

https://mega.nz/#F!N0pVFKrD!jK6lBw0Al8OW1whLxiSGTQ!I8IkSLwL

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>>15003140
You're the man, anon

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>>15003151

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>TFW I keep trying to run robot games but no one wants to play.

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>>15003592

I have a theory about this.

I think a giant robot game can only succeed if it has excellent artwork.

Look at Rifts. It has a shitty system and shitty layout. Its setting is interesting and offers many options, but it's not like it's particularly unique in that regard. But Kevin is, if nothing else, a great art director.

A nontrivial number of people are into Rits. Plenty of people play Warmachine/Iron Kingdoms. WH40K is popular. These are all quite mecha-heavy games, and they all have superb artwork.

I'm running an IBO game with mekton II, ideally I'd like to us tabletop simulator, but will use roll20 if you don't have it.
email me at [email protected]

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>>15003936
>mekton II

Interesting! Why did you choose II instead of Z?

>>15003996
From what I'm told, it's mechanically lighter and is more brutal in combat, (idk if either thing is true, just what I've been told)
I want the IBO experience to be very brutal and lethal.

Is Mekton really as math heavy as it comes across?

>>15004086
Most of it isn't that bad. The part that involves some mathematical bullshit is flight systems, and I really recommend using the Google Docs sheet posted above for it.

>>15003936
https://discord.gg/xqtaX

Discord chat for the group

>>15004206
https://discord.gg/xqtaX

Real link, old one expired

>>15004293
>>15004206

Fixed it guys

https://discord.gg/AbZ7d9r

>>15004086

Only Mekton Zeta +. If you build your Mecha with the core rulebook it isnt difficult at all.

>>15004086
>>15004195
>>15004307

Yeah, only Mekton Z+'s build rules are really intricate and math-heavy. Even then, it's mostly addition and multiplication. Z+ gets a rep for being "math heavy" because it shows the reader behind the curtain with how certain table results were calculated. You can look on a chart and see how many km/h an MA of 20 is, but it also tells you that number was chosen based on square roots and stuff.

>>15004086
>>15004195
>>15004307
>>15004533
MZ+ is only math "heavy" if you failed primary school.

>>15004533
A lot of that behind the curtain math is actually extremely useful if you're statting up something that you have technical specs for.

>>15004554

It is a game.
Being anywhere beyond 3rd grade math is "heavy math" for a game. No shit it isn't asking you to do proofs in model theory.

>>15004570
>Being anywhere beyond 3rd grade math is "heavy math" for a game.
HAHA, no.

>>15004570
What garbage pit third world country do you live in that multiplication is "beyond 3rd grade math?"

>>15004570
How? Even in Murrica we learn multiplication in second and third grade. At least when I was in school.

>>15004587
>>15004590

Basic multiplication is not the same thing as having to add up and multiply all the different numbers that come up while building your mecha in a very specific order.

>>15004614
>Basic multiplication is not the same thing as having to add up and multiply all the different numbers that come up while building your mecha in a very specific order.
I just wanted to get this quote in here before you noticed how incredibly fucking stupid that post is and delete it before anyone else sees it.

>>15004620

It's true. Multiplying 3 x 5 a few times is not the same thing as what you do in MZ+. MZ+ isn't particularly hard on the math, but compared to modern games like FATE ( which a first grade could do) it is "math heavy".

>>15004554
It's not math-heavy in that any of the math is particularly difficult. It's math-heavy in that a typical tabletop has about six to nine base stats and then maybe five major derived values from those base stats. MZ+ has about six important values per body part (Cost, Space, Kills, Weight, SP, DC), with the typical robot having six-eight body parts. Each weapon then also has its own cost derived from multiplying the values for its seven-ish base properties. If the result is too large to fit in the desired body part, and it probably is if you're building a weapon worth a damn, you'll need to calculate space efficiency and set it aside. Combine all the servo, armor and weapon costs, minus space efficiency costs, with any cost and weight values for additive systems and you have the pre-fuel weight and cost, which you then multiply by the sum of zero to several individual cost multipliers to get the actual final cost. If you're building a machine that uses Thrusters instead of Gravitics, you then have to add weight for the fuel, but if you're trying for a certain target MA then you need to set the size of the thrusters based on what the weight will be after the fuel is added rather than before. After all this you add the sum of all the individual pieces of space efficiency, plus any weight efficiency you used, to get the final cost.

No individual calculation here is anything to write home about. It's almost all simple addition and multiplication. What makes the result math-heavy is the sheer *number* of calculations being performed, which vastly outstrip what's normally required of character creation in an RPG. Pre-Fuel Weight alone takes nine separate values into account, seven of which are themselves the sum of multiple smaller values. It's a lot of math in aggregate.

>>15004631
What exactly is it that you think you do in MZ+? Because I'm getting the vibe you're talking completely out your ass and going purely on hearsay.

>>15004639
I'll agree that it is a lot of tedious math.

>>15004631
>Multiplying 3 x 5 a few times is not the same thing as what you do in MZ+
That is exactly what you do in MZ+. Though sometimes... there are DECIMALS! *gasp*

That's still basic multiplication you primary school dropout.

>>15004639
>>15004680
The good thing is finding programs and spreadsheets that do the calculating for you takes approximately 20 seconds in google.

>>15004680

See >>15004639

As I said, the problem is all the different minute calculations you have to do, in a very specific order. That is something more difficult than answering a few isolated multiplication problems like a third grader would.

>>15004683
Grow up.

>>15004559

And that's why it's there!
[does a little butter churn dance]

Mekton Z+ is major gearhead stuff.

If you're a gearhead, then Z+ is good.

If you're not, Z+ is not so good.

Fortunately, MZ's gameplay runs smoothly and doesn't involve loads of calculations. It's a fun game.

This post
>>>/tg/50610052
offers some handy homebrewed rules modifications to address the "Reflexes is the god stat" issue.

>>15004680
>I'll agree that it is a lot of tedious math.

Indeed. When I'm refereeing Mekton I never bother with spaces, or even cost, when I build Meks. I understand the system well enough, I don't need to fuss with spaces and CP costs, I know what kinda capabilities the Meks I build will have and how that will scale vs the players and their Meks.

Really only the player, who is (presumably) building his own personal Mekton, strictly needs to sweat Spaces and CPs. And he should, and he should have fun with it. That Mekton is his baby, and getting deep into its inner workings is part of the joy of Mekton, which is aimed at gearhead players (as >>15004771 said).

>>15004686
I'm >>15004639 and I built the autocalculating spreadsheet in >>14993415, so I know you can set it up automatically. You certainly couldn't when the game came out in 1995, though, and even with the sheet there's a lot of fussing with minute bits of customization that make the system much more complex than plenty of others.

>>15004726
>in a specific order
This seems the cornerstone of why do think basic arithmetics is "heavy math" in certain situations.
As someone who gets that "heavy math" is correct because it's a relative term in context to most systems, your "specific order" argument is weak as shit. It's like saying traveller character creation and all combat systems are "heavy math" because there's steps. Nah, man, it's heavy math because it's more "intensive" than the major systems.

Has anybody tested the risus mecha expansion?

>>14993269
> think the right (i.e., well-done) mecha RPG hasn't been produced yet
This. It's hard to get the right balance of detailed mecha-crunch without an overcomplicated mess of a system.

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>>15005635
>Has anybody tested the risus mecha expansion?

Risus mecha expansion... That's not in the list!! Got a link to it? Ideally to a PDF, but at least to some page talking about it? Wait, googling now... OK, found it! Found them, actually.

Mobile Armour Fighting Team Risus
http://web.archive.org/web/20050901074951/http://www.geocities.com/amazingchet/gaming/maft.htm
(these are older rules)

Risus Mecha
http://www.risusiverse.com/home/optional-rules/risus-mecha
(these are newer, much more comprehensive rules)

OK, added them to the list. Thanks!

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>>14993347
>Mekton
>combat works on a single godstat

>>14993645
>godstat
>No getting around that without heavy houseruling
>but it isn't such a big deal since different skill scores will still differentiate players.

>>14995772
>godstats
>it wastes design space and adds unneeded busywork

A homebrewed solution to MZ's godstat issue, from a now-archived thread on /tg/, was mentioned in >>15004771 but since the thread is now archived, I'm attaching a screengrab of the thread's relevant points.

>>15005593
>intensive
Basic arithmetic is far from "intensive."

It's numerous and tedious, but I repeat, 20 seconds in Google and you'll find all the spreadsheets.

>>15006067

Cool.

>>15006236

Also cool.

>>15006236
You just skimmed the post, huh.

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As long as there are those who want to stomp on their enemies, crush them under their heel, and flatten them like bugs, there will be mecha games. Hallelujah.

Oh, this thread's alive here. Nice.

I should learn how to make spreadsheets so I can use >>15006067 in spreadsheet form.

Also, what characters have you rolled up in Mekton's Lifepath?

Had another two where one was a slave that somehow made an enemy of a government official of some sort who's ready to just kill that character on the spot.

Another one was basically a harem protag, surrounded by women. But fuck romance, he has to get back his family's clay.

>>15007333

Yeah, spreadsheets can be very handy. It'd be nice if it could be made to look pretty too though.

As for characters rolled up in Mekton (and Cyberpunk).... Sheesh, I've made a ton of them. The lifepath is more fun than a barrel of monkeys.

>>15007333

I got some young soldier who cucked his general, so got sent to the front lines, but then ended up becoming the leader of his mobile suit team. Was a pretty fun character.

>>15007357
I always get a chuckle out of the fact that you can become a surprise homosexual through the lifepath
>>15009311
Lt. Dumont?

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>>15009464
>I always get a chuckle out of the fact that you can become a surprise homosexual through the lifepath

I know, right? Obviously you have the choice to re-roll if you're not comfortable with that, but hey -- pretty progressive for a game created 30 years ago. Then again, they were based in Berkeley, CA, so...

>>15009464

Rane?, Defoe ?, or is it Blackwell or Azuras ?

>>15010137
Ardy Rane reporting in

>>15002266

>The thing is... wouldn't the player then LET himself (or his mech) take the damage?

That's going to have to something you're going to have to accept should the mechanic exist. The player and his character are separate entities when it comes to the narrative and what makes it work is going to be how well the player uses the mechanics and roleplays it.


>That's not true to most (virtually all) the source material. It's not like Wolverine lets himself get hurt so that he can go berserk and kill everyone.

See, this isn't entirely true either. Wolverine is also the type of dude who -will- trade blows if it gets him results. Often times this is because he -has to-, in the face of more overwhelming powers, he has to make use of every advantage he's got.
You don't have to deliberately stand there and take wounds waiting for your superpower to activate like an SRW game (though I'm sure there are fictional examples that do almost fit that bill).

I'm sure you've seen examples of characters letting themselves take some blows to land a decisive strike or secure a later advantage in one way or another. The cross counter is a classic; the moment a predator swoops in for the kill is the moment you know where he's gonna be. I like to try these kind of things in games even when there's no real mechanical advantage in the system for it at all. Just the hope that it's cool enough for the GM to give me a boon. (though this is often more about countering at the right moment than necessarily forcing yourself to take damage; the latter is a risk you take for making the former happen.)

At any rate, when it comes to the mechanics, the risk vs reward just needs to be properly weighted. If you don't have enough ways to cover your ass so you won't explode soon after getting your powers activated, then it's pretty risky.

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I want to write a game that would be pretty much Gundam : the Saboteur, set during OYW.
Which system should I use?

Is Giant Guardian Generation worth playing or should I shore up money for Battle Century G/Z?

>>15012507
I actually liked Giant Guardian Generation around 1.33, but most of the changes from 1.4 onward sat poorly with me. The group I played with hated it, but that group and their campaign was barely about the robots at all.

>>15012731
I can't seem to find 1.33. If you've still got it, would you be willing to share?

I think I remember hearing about the Mekton guy doing a kickstarter for a new mecha rpg. Did that ever get funded?

Looking around for mech builders in google, it seems like all of them include the MKZ+ stuff as standard (which is cool for the people who want to work with it, but it's too many knobs to fiddle with for my taste). Are there any cut-down versions that just cover what's in the CRB?

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>>15013737
>I think I remember hearing about the Mekton guy

Mike Pondsmith

>doing a kickstarter for a new mecha rpg.

Yep. "Mekton Zero."

>Did that ever get funded?

pic related

The Kickstarter went great, raised like $40K, everyone was super-stoked... Then Mike Pondsmith pissed away ALL that good will by being late. Months late. Reasons were given. Seasons late. Excuses were made. Over a year late. The backers got worried. Every excuse you could imagine was given. Then dead silence. The backers got angry. Two years late. More excuses. Refunds offered to angry backers. Mekton Zero is now exactly three years late. Still no clue as to when it's coming out, if ever.

The sad thing is, Mike has been years late with his previous projects. Castle Falkenstein, Cyberpunk v3 (which should never have existed anyway), now Mekton Zero... It's just pathetic.

>>15014463
That's a damn shame, really.

>>15014653

I couldn't agree more. Cyberpunk and Mekton were and are my favorite games.

>>15012507
BCG system reference document with ALL the rules is free download on the blog. The full book is just images + fluff + GM section.

Has anyone here ran or played Adept us Evangelion? I have a group that's interested, but no experience with the system. Is it worth learning and running? Any tips or advice?

>>15015592
I ran a full AdEva 2.0 campaign once, played a full 2.5 campaign once, and played one session of 3.

Both 2.5 and 3 are a horrible broken mess, but 2.5 can be playable if you're pretty flexible as a GM. The problem with Dark Heresy rules is that they're very target-agnostic: no matter how you design your Angels, the players are going to have shitty luck hitting them for the first few sessions because they're rolling against their own BS/WS, not against any defensive factor of the Angel. By the end of the campaign they'll probably have something like 70+ BS/WS and so they'll be able to hit anything they want most of the time. Melee Skirmishers and AT Tacticians are the best classes, Ranged Skirmishers and Berserkers are a little ways behind them, and Pointmen are the worst. Pointmen are doubly the worst in fact because what they get fast progression on is SUP, and even a Skirmisher gets all the SUP they'll ever need even if they load their shit up with Ablative upgrades like I did. You'll have to fiddle heavily with the numbers until you get it right, but if you're willing to be flexible you can get a suitably crazy campaign out of it.

3 was absolutely unplayable, at least the version that I played of it which was 2015's Open Beta 3.1. The character design is more fun, but the BS/WS thing still applies, and Angels getting an action per turn even for fallen Evas means as soon as one guy goes down it goes into a complete death spiral where the rest of the party gets butchered at an increasingly rapid clip. Angels were also way too tough and couldn't even be hurt for Soft Damage most of the time. I would ask /tg/ about it since it gets threads semi-regularly there. If it's improved and fixed the issues I had with it, then go for it.

>>15015628
I don't know what version you played but it wasn't v3 for sure.
In v3 angels do NOT get actions for fallen evas
You cannot fail to do soft damage unless you miss.
Current v3 is reasonably playable.

Let's get real for a moment.

I'm going to DM a game and I need players.

The setting we're playing is Angel Blade.

Where my futanariboiz at

>>15015746
An Angel with 7 Toughness required a roll of 8-10 on a Positron Rifle to do any Soft Damage. With a BS of 51, which is not unreasonable for a starting character, that comes out to a 15% chance of an attack doing anything at all.

Tsukuda Hobby made alot of old Gundam tabletop games that are based off of the classic /tg/ war game Squad Leader
They are listed on Board Game Geek, just search for gundam

>>15015757
what system are you running it in?

>>15015928
iirc there's a fan translation of Newtype, the space one for 0079

>>15015592
>>15015628
Also watch out for the grapples of doom in 2.5

>>15015987

That would be fascinating to read.

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What would the definitive mecha RPG be like? What would it do? Would it have to be highly crunchy? Would it be better if it were more freeform and story-oriented?

>>15016426

The problem with going story mode is you still need to find ways of resolving super powered battles without the GM coming off as weighing the scales of the outcome. I mean sure you COULD do it that way, but the point of the dice is to add an element of randomness to the outcome, one that feels more fair to all involved. You also need some kind of mechanics to limit the use of certain super attacks or weapons, etc.

>>15016426
The problem is there's no such thing as a definitive mecha RPG. If you wanted highly crunchy, it would be hard to do better than Mekton. If you wanted freeform, you could use something like Fate Core, though I found Fate extremely unsatisfying precisely because it was too loose and didn't feel like anything I'd done in designing my robot particularly mattered. I can't begin to speculate what an ideal mecha RPG would look like because it's never been done.

>>15015592
My experience with AdEva is that it's fairly good at running grimdark, high lethality mecha games against individual really powerful foes and pretty shit at anything else (aka it mostly works fine if you want an eva rpg, but it doesn't lend itself well to other genres/tones).

>>14993834
>Just, you know, heavily modified both mechanically and (obviously) fluff-wise so it's not complete shit.

Just get the fucking five, you little cuck.

>>14993855
I just finished that show, it was particularly hilarious to me because how many parallels it had to a bliss stage game I played.

>>15015628
>they're rolling against their own BS/WS
Haven't played much of AE, but from my time with the 40k RPGs system most of the problems you describe usually come from the group not working with modifiers enough. WS/BS too low? Then the players need to find a give themselves a bonus to make the roll more feasible (ganging up, distractions, etc). WS/BS too high? Then either the GM needs ways to make the attacks harder to pull off (enemy can turn amorphous to make it harder to hit, make it really fast so that they have to spend time pinning it down instead of constantly wailing on it every turn, etc). Thinking of your stats as "this is the character's baseline, how can I pull this up or down in my favor" rather than as "my chance to do this action is and always will be X"
>not against any defensive factor of the Angel
Wait what? Does AE get rid of Dodge and Parry?

>>15016544
It has Dodge and Parry, but those are the same problem in the opposite direction: no matter what the attack is, you've got an Agility+Dodge chance of avoiding it that your opponent can do nothing about. I got Dodge 73 by the end of the campaign with a shitty base Agility. It only works once per round, sure, but if you're a player who's getting hit more than once per round then you're going to get your shit pushed in anyway, while if you're an Angel then you can use your Dodge on the biggest attack you're going to eat that round and soak the rest with your obscene Toughness.

The point is that your ability to land hits has nothing to do with your opponent's ability to defend themselves, and your opponent's ability to dodge hits that land has nothing to do with your ability to land them.

>>15016598
I can't say I've ever had much of an issue with that element of the game, but as previously stated, my experience with the system is from the 40k side, where the number of enemies in a fight is often equal to or greater than the number of players which may be the issue here (it's possible that the engine was intended to have equally sized sides, and if that isn't the case the law of averages or whatever breaks down and the results end up having more swing to them).

>your ability to land hits has nothing to do with your opponent's ability to defend themselves
Technically speaking their ability to dodge does affect your ability to hurt them, it's just separated into multiple steps rather than all being resolved at once. The RPGs use the wargame's logic for damage (you roll to see if you can hit them, then you roll to see if your hit would hurt them, then they roll to see if they actually got hurt).

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>>15016451
>The problem with going story mode is you still need to find ways of resolving super powered battles without the GM coming off as weighing the scales of the outcome. I mean sure you COULD do it that way, but the point of the dice is to add an element of randomness to the outcome, one that feels more fair to all involved. You also need some kind of mechanics to limit the use of certain super attacks or weapons, etc.

Agreed. Blurry, fuzzy, narrative-oriented gaming doesn't seem to really lend itself to mecha. And yeah, rules for Final Attacks, Rage Modes, Burning Justice, all that groovy stuff... that's important, and not wholly easy.

>>15016466
>The problem is there's no such thing as a definitive mecha RPG.

Do you mean it hasn't been created yet? Or do you mean it's not possible?

>If you wanted highly crunchy, it would be hard to do better than Mekton.

Agreed. I like Mekton a lot, by the way, but nowadays I find it too paperwork-intensive. Especially as a gamemaster.

>If you wanted freeform, you could use something like Fate Core, though I found Fate extremely unsatisfying precisely because it was too loose and didn't feel like anything I'd done in designing my robot particularly mattered.

Yeah, I too am concerned about that. I wonder if there's a way to balance that? To make mecha design matter in a loose, storytelling type game. Hmmm.

>I can't begin to speculate what an ideal mecha RPG would look like because it's never been done.

But it can be done. And should be done. At least, that's what I think.

バンプ

>>15015928
>Squad Leader
Oh shit!! That's awesome!

If I had tons of money I would have all of Metallic Guardian translated. I'm dying to know about that game.

>>15016262
iirc it's a pdf
I'll try flipping through my externals over the next few days, I might have it

but yeah there's a shitload of tabletops of 80s robot stuff, they did gundam at least through ZZ, Ideon, Xabungle, all sorts of stuff

>>15015777
If you beat toughness you get a critical hit (hard damage). You always inflict soft damage equal to what you rolled without substracting toughness.

>>15018005

Whee! Yeah, if you could find it that'd be awesome. A cursory Googling hasn't yielded any joy so far.

>>15018315
Went and found it. Angel was a Sachiel reskin and had that Absolute Defense shit where attacks that don't do at least 5 damage do nothing at all.

>was planning on running an AdEva game
>wanted to name the enemies after goetic demons rather than angels
>IBO comes out
well, there goes that plan

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>>15015928
>tfw 0080 exists in /tg/ form

>>15015592
>>15016483
AE is only good for running what it is and terrible at running anything else mecha-related. But, if you are willing to get creative with running something which is Eva-esque you can get some pretty damn good mileage out of it without it feeling like you are utterly rehashing the original serie or Rebuild.

I like robits.

translation: bump

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I'd been working on an mecha rpg for quite a while now but work and time issues put the kibosh on that for the time being.

Originally it started as me wanting some kind of world to put my illustrations in but it evolved into a game. If people are interested I could pull up some of the stuff I did and see what you think. The major mechanics was that pilot and mech stats are separated and combined together for rolls so a good pilot can still be good in a crap mech and vice-versa.

Big chunks of it are half done but the jist was 'ecologically unstable planet where the original colonists took to using their environmental hardsuits and eventually they became the go-to vehicle, getting a bit larger) I just wanted to mash Front Mission with Votoms and Nausicaa

>>15015928
They're also OOP and rare as hell.

>>15021399

Sounds groovy, I'd love to know more, especially about the game mechanics you came up with.

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>>15021993
I'd link the PDF if I could in its very unfinished state. I was in the process of converting my notes over into a more serviceable format and its lacking the combat rules and weapon tables. Pilots have 8 core stat values and their mechs have 5 (with a 1 being utterly crap and 10 godlike)

When inside a mech, a pilot stat is added to one mech stat and the value rolled against d20. If the result is equal to or under the added together value, the test is a success.

The mechs are divided into 4 body parts: Body, R. Arm, L. Arm and Legs each with a flat Hull amount that when reduced to 0 have a 1d10 on a critical table depending on the damage type taken. A low roll and the body part is disabled but can be repaired, a high roll and the part is destroyed completely (the body when destroyed kill the mech but when disabled simply means it loses its sensor bonus to rolls)

The general base mechanic for rolls in mechs was:

"PILOT STAT + MECH STAT +/- situational and skill modifiers = Result
Roll d20 (or d10)
If 'result' is equal to or under d20 value, test is a pass
If 'result' is over d20 value, test is a failure"

This could then be further modified by up to +3 for super easy or -4 for near impossible tasks.

Its a pretty combat heavy game but I tried my best to move it away from the super crunch and book keeping inherent in other mech games

>>15022189

Interesting. I like it. It has potential.

Is that "Streetfight" pic one of yours?

>>15022189

What are the stats? Which ones add to which ones when?

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>>15022635
Yes, I drew all the related images to the game
>>15022645
Pilots have "Melee Skill" "Ballistic Skill" "Reaction" "Vigour" "Morale" "Intelligence" and "Charisma"

Mechs have "Servo", "Bulk", "Engine", "Computer" and "Sensor"

(Servo is a mechs physical strength, Bulk is the weight, carry capacity and general size, Engine is its speed, Computer is its hardware, software and communication interface and Sensor is its targeting and tracking ability)

If I wanted to say, avoid a big pile of rubble thats fallen in the way i'd take my pilots reaction number and add it to his mechs engine value. Roll 1d20 and if the number is lower or equal to the two stats added together, I'd successfully swerve around it with no problem.

All actions taken inside a mech are a combination of a pilot and their mech stat. If you're unfortunate to be stuck outside one you only use a 1d10 to roll one pilot stat putting you at a huge disadvantage (unless say you had a particular rifle linked up to a computer to aid targeting or something similar)

>>15022679

Nice art! You've got some real skills, sir.

Your system is catching my interest. I like the stat of "Bulk" especially.

But why would a person be worse at, say, dodging falling rubble than a mech would be? That's the only flaw I see in your system. I should think that, out of the cockpit, the pilot would add some kinda skill...

So, like, in his mech he'd use Reaction + Engine vs 1D20, while on foot it would be Reaction + "Dodge" (or whatever) vs 1D20... Would that make more sense?

>>15022679
>>15022189
>>15021399
mind posting more about the setting?

>>15022679

Very interesting stuff. I would love to play test it some time.

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>>15023614
A brief explanation of the setting is that a bunch of colonists met with a series of unfortunate events that resulted in only the colonists, their environmental suits and a bare minimum of supplies being dropped on a planet that wasn't that great in the first place.

The planet itself while abundant in plant life has an atmosphere with too high a concentration of oxygen that, combined with a bungled terraforming program that resulted in some areas being a complete no-go, means that people had took to living in sealed domes despite the prolific flora around them. These domes (now called Habitats or 'habs') over time became ever more isolated and culturally and technologically disparate, eventually forming city states.

Currently the major Habitats are eager to expand their territories, choked for land as their populations swell and demand for resources increase. Jostles and minor skirmishes with neighbours has raised tension and with it mercenaries pilots have become ever more present in the field of battle as those states without formalised military are forced to defend their sovereignty and independence.

>>15023338
Thanks, the reason people are so rubbish outside of mechs is partly due to the precautions they have to use due to the environment and the interface with mechs (bulky personal linking gear, limited movement, disorientation from leaving their mechs sensor ports) and also my handwave that might invalidate having to use mechs at all.

A person could learn a 'dodge' skill which would add a bonus modifier to their initial 'Reaction' value.

(actually in retrospect you're right, they should be rolling a 1d20 but only using one pilot stat instead with at most a small skill bonus to keep things balanced. I want people to be squishy and vulnerable outside their mechs)

There would most probably be exceptions but that's the general feel.

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>>15014463
>cyberpunk v3
That one where they used dolls as artwork?
mfwphotos of actual barbie dolls

>>15015757
Sahib pls let it be true

>>15021399
>>15022189
Whoah, this is really cool. Your art reminds me of Maschinen Krieger mixed with a bit of...I'm getting slight Dragon's Heaven vibes, I think, looking at some of the mecha heads and arms. Nifty stuff.

>>15024092

Fun fact: Mike Podsmith collects and customizes 12" action figures (like the big GI Joes, CyGirls, etc) as a hobby -- it makes sense that he'd try to use them for his games. Truthfully, I don't even think it's an objectively a bad idea -- just that Cyberpunk wasn't the right venue for it.

Really, the thing about CPv3 was that the use of action figures for art was the LEAST of its offenses.

Despite being years late CPv3 was, in many places, just a copy-paste of 2020 -- right down to the SPELLING ERRORS. And often, the text copied was no longer relevant. Page number references were always wrong. Rules and descriptions were sometimes flat-out missing, etc. The damn book was an editing atrocity.

Also, the layout is nauseating. Pale greens, dull gray-blacks, illegible fonts, ugh. It's awful to look at, regardless of the doll photos.

And then there's the actual content. Oh god, oh god. Where to begin? I can't possibly do justice to how bad it is. I'll just give a sample:

For the third edition of Cyberpunk -- CYBERPUNK! -- Mike decided to get rid of cyberware and netrunning, but decided to add in were-whales. You read that right: WERE-WHALES.

Seriously, reading CPv3 was like being punched in the balls over and over and over again.

>>15024107
>WERE-WHALES

Don't you mean Street Sharks?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqGQyMF5a_0

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>>15024101
Yeah, Maschinen Krieger and Dragon's Heaven were two of the major inspirations visuals wise.

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今の科学で4メートルのこいつを歩かせる科学技術は無い

>>15024337

Whoah, a model of the Fear Dumbbell. Didn't expect to see that!

Does anyone have the archive of a thread that was posted many years ago about a group of players that was playing some mecha game (Mekton? Not sure) and they ended up doing the most villanous things like blowing up colonies and shooting a female enemy NPC after a PC said he loved her to drop her guard?

Couldn't find it anywhere and with archive.moe ded I can only rely on people who might had screencap'd it

>>15024337

The VOTOMs rpg was actually a great sourcebook for the show. As a game it seemed pretty good too...

das boomp

>>15024812
Might be on /tg/, but I definitely remember that thread.

>>14993143
That mekton Zeta conversion is what I'm using right now. The only issue I'm running into is the weapon damage calculations. If I'm doing this right, a 120mm Zaku machine gun does 4 kills of damage, almost as much as the RX-78's 1.9MW Beam Rifle, which does only 5. Is there a mitigating factor somewhere in the rules for this that I've just overlooked or what?

>>14993143
>>15026877
http://pastebin.com/tF9kj2qU

>>15026020
DESU a VOTOMs tabletop campaign sounds like it'd be pretty damn cool in and of it's self.

>>15026877
If you want to accurately reflect Gundam-style combat where beam weapons do hilarious amounts of damage that instantly kill anything they hit, you're going to need to build your beam weapons to do in the range of 15K damage.

I don't actually recommend you do this unless you're comfortable with player characters dying a lot.

>>15027423
I'm not aiming for OHK but I'd like there to be a reason to use Beam Weapons over machine guns. 16 rounds single shot vs 100 rounds of burst fire is a pretty easy choice if they're doing almost the same damage.

Maybe I should tone down the projectile weapons?

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>>14993143
>>15026877
>>15027149

Ben Wright here. I actually cooked up a v2.0 of how to do Gundam in Mekton back in... what, 2010 I think? Yeah.

Anyway, in it, I came up with a better way to determine beam weapon damage. Here it is:

Ranged energy weapons (Beam Rifles, Mega-Particle Cannons, etc) have their damage (and thus range) determined as follows:

1. Find the cube root of the weapon’s Megawattage output;

2. Mutliply the result by 6.67;

3. Round nearest. All Beam Weapons damage is Armor Piercing, even against Gundarium.

If the beam weapon’s Megawattage is not known, the damage can be estimated by using the following formula:

1. Subtract 75 from mecha’s creation/deployment year;

2. Find the square root of Step 1;

3. Add 6.67 to the result of Step 2;

4. Round nearest; the result is the damage the mecha’s Beam RIFLE does. Adjust larger or smaller weapons appropriately.

Admittedly, I haven't re-examined these rules for a while, so there might be better ideas out there. However, it is an improvement -- the Gundam's 1.9mw Beam Rifle comes in at 8 Kills of damage, and includes the Armor Piercing effect (armor is treated as having 1/2 its SP).

>>15027550

Nah, 4K is already pretty wimpy for a main weapon. And remember, in Mekton terms that gun doesn't have 100 shots -- it has, say, 8 Bursts, with each Burst consisting of several potential hits.

Also, all beams being armor-piercing or something does make sense, per >>15027654

>>15027654
Wow, thanks! This seems a lot more reasonable.

Any thoughts on bazookas?

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>>15027423

Yeah, in the official Gundam RPG the Gundam's beam rifle does 17K.

!!! 17 !!!

The reasoning for that is that it can one-shot-kill most MSs, with a Dom having a small chance of surviving one shot but definitely being killed by a second.

However, I think this reasoning is flawed. With the G-Factor rule in effect, MSs can be destroyed well before their torso is reduced to zero. That 17K is insane -- especially because it means that the weapons of future MSs, like the Mark II, the Zeta, the ZZ, the Nu, etc -- would be off the charts. 20K, 30K, more... for a hand-held Beam Rifle? Come on.

Per >>15027658 and >>15027654, giving beam weapons the Armor-Piercing effect, or giving them the EMW "hot knife through butter" effect, or hey, having them just ignore armor completely... I dunno, some special rule like that would be eminently logical.

Also worth considering is the fact that, by my estimation, beam SABERS are even more deadly than beam rifles. So, what, they do 18K? 20K? Over 9000K?

>>15027668
>bazookas?

And more! Here are all the notes I compiled for my most recent take on MZ/Gundam:

http://pastebin.com/Hsqt58ig

Looking over my word doc on my computer, I didn't revisit everything. And I've never playtested this, sadly. But it's something to chew on.

>>15027668
>>15027703

To save time, here are the notes on projectile weapons:

Projectile weapons have their damage determined as follows:

1. Divide the weapon’s bore diameter (as measured in millimeters) by 10 (note that anything labeled explicitly as a “Vulcan” weapon is divided by 30);

2. Find the “LOG” of the result of Step 1;

3. Multiply the result of Step 2 by 6;

4. Round nearest. The result is the damage done by a single shot from the weapon.

Note:
Projectile weapons can be armor-piercing, but note that projectiles lose their armor-piercing effect when hitting Gundarium type armor.

Some weapons work like projectile weapons but are designated Rocket weapons; these have increased range (like, say, +50%). The same holds true for Bazookas.

>>15027703

D'oh, sorry. Didn't mean to post that one anonymously.

>>15027654
You're much better off measuring by what the weapon is shown to actually do and comparing that to expected Armor/Servo values. Megawattage is just a number that doesn't mean anything and is fairly arbitrarily applied. RX-78's beam rifle doesn't have a power rating at all, while Nu Gundam's has 3.8 and ZZ has an absurdly large 10.6 per barrel on its dual-barrel rifle. Unicorn's is allegedly "four times as powerful as a regular rifle", whatever that means.

But more importantly, and this goes to the problem with >>15027677, is that hyper-lethal numbers on beam weapons basically means combat boils down to who has the better MR/MV. It's better for weapons to do partial damage from a game design standpoint unless the players are expected to have much better guns than their opponents.

In Gundam a lot of the combat between two opponents wielding beam rifles involves them shooting at each other and repeatedly missing, or clashing beam sabers without actually doing damage to each other, with maybe a few hits where they destroy one another's shields or weapons. The story of the fight is being told in those missed shots and the bits where the two pilots are shouting at each other over the intercom. The problem is that missing shots sucks in an RPG and nobody likes when it happens, so players will typically do a lot to boost their accuracy so they can hit things. This is why it's better for damage to gradually wear down opponents rather than one-shot them: because the concept behind the fight is that one person or the other's resolve or concentration is gradually being worn down, even if only one crippling shot actually lands.

>>15027727

A solid essay on game design indeed. Thank you! Copying for future reference.

>>15027727

Mark Simmons actually theorized, at one point, that maybe the Megawattage of a beam weapon represented how much energy it requires, not how much it delivers. He discarded that idea shortly thereafter though.

And yes, the numbers are sorta arbitrary, yes, but they also exist, and are fun to play with, and were created and printed for some kinda frame of reference -- illustrating the increases in technology, etc. It's not like it's pointless or silly to reference them.

OTOH, usually onscreen a beam rifle is a beam rifle is a beam rifle -- one could approach things that way. But then, if you did a weird game where someone in a V Gundam was fighting someone in a, say, RX-77 Guncannon, there really should be differences in performance and firepower.

Oh, and BTW, there actually are megawattage output specs for for the RX-78's beam rifle. That number was cooked up long after the fact, a retroactive number, but that happens all the time. IIRC 1.9mw is correct.

>>15027706
>falling for the "bigger caliber = more damage" meme

A while back an anon in a tg thread for Mekton said they might do a video tutorial series to help people get into mech creation. Did that ever happen?

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>>15027727
>combat between two opponents wielding beam rifles involves them shooting at each other and repeatedly missing
>or clashing beam sabers without actually doing damage to each other, with maybe a few hits where they destroy one another's shields or weapons.
>The story of the fight is being told in those missed shots and the bits where the two pilots are shouting at each other over the intercom.
>the concept behind the fight is that one person or the other's resolve or concentration is gradually being worn down, even if only one crippling shot actually lands.

Hmmmmm... I bet there's a way to model this. A system where missed shots have value in some way. Rules where shots and strikes, even if they don't do actual damage, erode a character's performance until you can land a crippling or killing blow. Hmmmmm....

>>15027861
There's many ways. AdEva 3 tries to achieve it with the Soft Damage mechanic. Exalted 3 does it too with their whole initiative system. Most systems abstract it down into the whole idea of hit points.

>>15027861

It would be a bit cumbersome but whenever you miss, you could accumulate points based on how close your were to hitting them, a certain amount of points could your opponent a negative modifier.

Though personally I find that regular MZ battles cover all that just fine. A normal MZ battle goes like

>You miss a bunch of times as you get into range
> Your opponent shoots your missle out of the air.
> They take out your gun with a rifle shot
> You take out a few of their limbs with your saber
> They then parry your killing blow
> You manage to barely dodge a shot from their rifle at point blank range
>You attack again and miss so you use your MP to gain an extra two moves, you move back and score a critical hit with a sub weapon that blows up their thrusters, causing them to malfunction and crash into a near by asteroid.

It a dynamic enough battle for Gundam, and that is what is standard in MZ assuming you are not too far above your opponent's stat/skill and tech wise.

>>15027906
>whenever you miss, you could accumulate points based on how close your were to hitting them, a certain amount of points could your opponent a negative modifier.

Yeah, something like that could work. Hmmmm... something about building up stress, or distraction, or drama, or frustration, or nerves... hmmmmm

>>15027902
>AdEva 3 tries to achieve it with the Soft Damage mechanic.
>Exalted 3 does it too with their whole initiative system.

I'd love to know more about these rules.

>>15027861
Your hit point equivalent actually represents your mobile suit's current positioning and ability to maneuver to evade or block enemy attacks.

No hit points - attacks actually hit, causing damage and possibly OHKOing your unit.

>>15027962

Hmmm. I guess that is, in fact, the simplest way to do it. Basically, a layer of Plot Armor, if you will.

>>15027861
>A system where missed shots have value in some way. Rules where shots and strikes, even if they don't do actual damage, erode a character's performance until you can land a crippling or killing blow. Hmmmmm....
That's more or less what the traditional "hit point" system was intended to model in the first place. You don't actually need fancy new mechanics, you just need a change of mindset. An attack that "does damage" doesn't have to mean that you put a beam saber through the other unit's leg. It indicates that your strike had some telling effect on the overall flow of the battle, reducing your opponent's ability to continue enduring your attacks. That could be due to direct physical damage, or it could just mean that a near miss threw them off balance, or that they were forced to overload their thrusters in a frantic attempt to dodge your shot.

>>15027970
>>15027968

Yeah, there's merit to this. Perhaps the pilot himself, regardless of mecha, might have a layer of "virtual hit points" -- measured, perhaps, by his Willpower (or maybe Newtype?) stat -- that must be whittled away before actual damage accrues?

In a way, the Gundam RPG deals with this by the extreme usefulness of Ace Points, Luck Points, and Newtype Points -- when a character is all outta metacurrencies to boost their chances, they're more likely to retreat from battle.

>>14993440
Maybe you shouldn't steal art assets for a paid project.

>>14996814
He's a plagiarist. Out of principle you should not.

>>15021399
Being completely honest, your art is really good.

>>15003918
People also would usually play a simple, unbalanced, fastpaced game over a more long-winded complex but mechanically objectively better one I find, as well as perfering to play something with brand recognition and something with models.

>>15028528
>something with models

Well that certainly ain't RIFTs.

Is the term "Mech" trademarked (or copyrighted, or patented, or whatever it is) so that only Battletech-related products and projects can use it? It seems to have become a really widespread, common-use term.

>>15029226

http://bg.battletech.com/legal/

>MechWarrior, BattleMech, ‘Mech and AeroTech are registered trademarks of The Topps Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

'Mech (with an apostrophe) is a registered trademark. Without an apostrophe, it's not, it's just a word.

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How would you handle multiple pilots of a giant robot, /tg/? Like Voltron or the Megazord. (Assuming each pilot is a player-character, of course.)

>>15029925
>/tg/

Derrrrrrrp! Excuse me, I mean gentle/m/en.

>>15029925

Maybe add their skills together? Just like the robot combines, their skills combine.

>>15029925
>>15030136
Well the only thing is, you really only need one guy directing the movements. Otherwise you have to constantly be in communication of "okay now I'm stepping back and to the left by 3 meters" "okay, I'm twisting my leg to the side to compensate" and such shit trying to coordinate all the limbs. So you give one guy the driver's chair and he maybe has skills for good driving. Then the other people each have their own speciality for their own station - one guy regulates power, one's on comms, one's targeting.

I mean ultimately they're not doing anything physical with the mech they're just sitting in it. But their skills make them damn good at operating it.

>>15030172
Sounds like crewing in Traveller. Assuming they all ran all their own stations when they were in individual bots, just assigning the best _____ to handle to _____ in the gattai'd bot for everyone, etc.
Nothing wrong with the above thought though:
>>15030136
The real difference is whether the whole team rolls all at once for operations together or if specific individual persons roll for specific operations.

Btw, i wasnt the one who posed the question, i was just seeing if the art-bro came back and decided to throw my 2cents in.

if one is in need of designs for the Mecha in your campaigns, this guy has tons of pieces that would work very well for your needs;

http://ksenolog.deviantart.com/

>>15030828
Anymore places with copyright free mechs?

>>15030903
>Anymore places
>copyright free

the internet

Rules for combining mecha seem like they would have to get realllllllly complicated

>>15031746
They are actually pretty simple.The two combiners can't have more points combined than the combined unit does, and you just need to designate the hard points to determine which weapons and systems from the combiners are usable in the combined.Easy stuff.

>>15032078

Now think about mapping damage.

Uh oh, my torso has suffered 33% damage. And my torso is made from two combiner units: half of one unit, and all of another.

Hmmmmm

>>15032149
tweak the random damage tables then.

>>15032149

So each unit has taken 50% of the kills that the combined unit did. GM decides where the damage went to on the unit. Or, once they separate, for each one he can just roll a d10 to determine hit location then roll a d100 to determine how much of the total damage went to that hit location. Just keep dividing it up that way until the full damage has been attributed.

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>>15032078
>The two combiners can't have more points combined than the combined unit does

I take issue with this.

My observation has been that, usually, the combined unit is "greater than the sum of its parts" -- and that's not figurative, that's literal.

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Playing a game of Dairugger XV would be... interesting.

I mean, fifteen pilots is a lot to deal with. But perhaps having three players, with each one being their leader of their respective teams (sea, air, land) and commanding them when combined as "vehicle Voltron" might be a fun exercise.

>>15033295

Well you can always use the "break the laws of physics" section of the book to make that work.

>>15033970

What book are we talking about?

>>15034015

The Z+ advanced technical manual.

>>15033295
>My observation has been that, usually, the combined unit is "greater than the sum of its parts"

Agreed with that.

Also from a game designer's perspective: in most RPG systems, more actions is better. Having two party members who can do two different things in a round is better than having just one even if he can do that thing twice as well. There are exceptions (FATE, Legend of Wulin to name two) but that's usually how it is.

The combined robot must be greater than the sum of its parts, otherwise there's no reason to combine it ever.

>>15034070

There can still be a point in combining. For example, the combined unit can have weapons and systems that the individual combiners don't have. You just can't exceed the cost points of the two combiners in the combined. So maybe you want your combiners to act solo because they have individual things that they can do better ( maybe more stealth, more long range oriented, etc) but when you want to pull out the giant space station destroying sword you need to combine and funnel a bunch of those points from the individual units into having this monstrous weapon.

>>15034101
>You just can't exceed the cost points of the two combiners in the combined.

At least in Mekton Z, the rules say the opposite -- the combined unit can cost more/have more structure/etc than the components. IIRC, 1/2 the cost of the combined robot has to be distrubted among all the components.

>>15034070
>Having two party members who can do two different things in a round is better than having just one even if he can do that thing twice as well. There are exceptions (FATE, Legend of Wulin to name two)

Can you elaborate on this? I'm interested.

>>15034252

Oh interesting. I went back to the section, looks like I was wrong about that one. It is the weight that has to be completely distributed. I also forgot about the damage scale for mapping out which system/parts go where.

>>15034326
I think there's something in the Zeta Plus or the Technical Manual about expanding plasma transformations that lets you handwave that.

>>15034728

Yeah, with Expanding Plasma you get the classic "Inflatable Robot" trope.

>>15034263
There's some good information out there on how action mechanics can affect the way a game functions. Unfortunately, my attempts to answer your question kept getting sidetracked into long-winded essays about all the crazy things that players can do to tinker with the action economy in D&D 3.5 (a game famous - or perhaps infamous - for the degree to which its action economy can be broken). While 3.5 is an excellent example of what you're asking about, I'm not sure I can explain it in a way that would make sense to someone who's not familiar with the game. Instead, I guess I'll just leave you with one particularly choice quote that I dug up while trying to write up a reasonable explanation for you.
>http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?244883-Action-Economy
>Action Economy (gaining extra actions, and denying your enemies' their actions) is the first and most important touchstone of optimization. To the degree that a game allows you to mess with the action economy is the degree to which the game can be broken.

Try asking on /tg/, you can probably find someone there who can do a better job than me of explaining the concept from a more general viewpoint, rather than one overly couched in the quirks of a single game system (albeit a system that's a particularly good example of what you're looking for).

>>15035226

Actually, now that I've read what you said a couple more times, I totally understand what you meant.

I appreciate you elaborating, and I agree.

Personally, I don't like games that give more actions to characters with higher "Speed" (Dex, Agility, Initiative, whatever). It may be more realistic or believable, but I'm fundamentally against a game system that facilitates some players getting to play the game MORE than others -- which is what having more actions is.

Anyone know if there's an extended Shots value table for Mekton Z+ beam weapons? The one in the book only goes up to 10 shots from a beam weapon before it's empty.

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>>15035707
>Anyone know if there's an extended Shots value table for Mekton Z+ beam weapons? The one in the book only goes up to 10 shots from a beam weapon before it's empty.

I'm 99.7% sure there isn't one. But let's look at the book...

Well, there's your problem. Having 9 shots reduces cost by 10%, having infinite shots doesn't alter cost at all -- infinite shots is the default for beam weapons in MZ.

It's understandable that the table wouldn't give you a cost savings for any shots more than 10 -- in an RPG, it's gonna be rather uncommon to get off more than 10 individual firings of a weapon. Any more than that, and the shots may as well be infinite.

Still, if you really want to have more shots, you can just use a cost modifier of x0.95 or something. How many shots were you wanting to have? 12? 15? 30? 50?

I found a fb group that has translations of bandai's official gundam 1/400 tactical battle tabletop wargame rules and stuff
face book dot com
/groups/gundamcollection/?view=group

sorry spam filter made me break the link

>>15036497
One year war game, so around 15.

>>15038226
You're probably best off just using Infinite. Beam rifles typically don't actually run out of shots on camera.

>>15038238
I think I'll just price it as infinite and say it's however many. Don't want my guys to always just sit back and take potshots.

>>15038226
>around 15
>10 shots is x0.9, infinite is x1.0

So... isn't x0.95 the obvious answer?

>>15038411
I mean yeah I guess. I'm just trying to balance it to where beam weapons are powerful but there's still reason to do projectiles and close combat.

>>15038419
Projectile weapons are desirable because they're cheaper: two-thirds the cost of a Beam weapon for the same amount of damage output, and it's much cheaper to get a few uses of something like Blast rounds than it is to make a Wide-Angle or Mega-Beam, with the extra advantage that you can choose to only load the area-of-effect rounds when you need them. They also get Phalanx, which is a much better missile countermeasure feature than Anti-Missile and cheaper to boot.

Solid melee weapons have the best damage-to-cost ratio of the four main weapon types at 2:1, making them the best way to get lots of damage output easily. They also have features like Shock and Entangling that you can't get elsewhere.

Energy Melee Weapons have the same 1:1 damage:cost ratio as physical guns, so they're considerably cheaper than beam weapons, and they have the armor-reducing property that makes them the best choice for shearing through heavily armored targets.

Missiles have the best firing range and cheapest cost by far, as well as being able to get an outrageous blast radius with ease. The fact that they can be shot down is the main thing that keeps them from being completely ludicrous.

Beam weapons have the advantages that they're reliable and easy to use, but there's quite a lot that other weapon types have going for them that beams simply can't match.

>>14993307
>tfw you find the complaints you'd written; you were one of the many ignored
I remember that. Boats applied to large flying ships but not naval vessels!

Plus, in a Gundam setting, projectile weapons have a much lower chance of causing an MS' reactor to explode.

>>15038495
Although in a certain gundam setting, a certain armor upgrade made non-energy melee and ranged weapons completely and utterly useless....

>>15039068
wait which one was this? Beam shields?

>>15039136
Nah, but I'm not surprised it didn't immediately come to mind... we all try to forget that one...

SEED's phase armor.

>>15039149
Ah, I never watched seed.

>>15039162
... that's just not fair.
you bastard.

GIVE ME BACK MY 23 MINUTES PER WEEK FOR A YEAR.

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Trying out MZP's design for the first time...
My first concept (something I've always wanted to play actually) is a VTOL with gun transformation.

I figure it would probably be something that had been meant to become the big cannon of a combiner, but the entire project was scrapped as being too expensive and too complex, so all they were left with was just this cannon that could fold down into a mobile form.

time to get it all wrong.

>>15039182
Ah uh, stupid question in regards to that: What are good usual cost ranges to work with for the design system?

>>15039299
A basic Heavy Striker frame is going to eat around 100 CP between the servos and the armor, plus maybe a simple gun. I personally find 300-700 a good range to work between if you're designing something fancy.

>>15039374
alright, I'll middle that and try something at 500.

>>14993584
I ran a shameless Fafner / Linebarrel inspired game, although instead of ayy lmaos the bad guys were the Chinese, who had gone crazy building Metal Gears / drone mechs with alien power sources and invaded Japan.

The players were members of a special group of children sent to the island base ALLEGRO to work for a paramilitary organisation called NERA and pilot experimental mechs called the Magatama Armours.

The party comprised:

- The Australian student council president, whose finest achievements included failing to investigate the mopey, sickly girl called Shoko and wondering who the fuck she was when she self-destructed
- The cool loner type with a crazy yandere girlfriend in the archery club, who got flashbanged and tied to an office chair by his CO in a prank
- The tacticool autistic "genius" who tried to hack NERA's servers to find out the truth about a coverup involving a fellow pilot, Ayato's, family. He managed to get this so badly wrong Ayato went mental and defected along with the most powerful prototype mech.

Through the course of the campaign the players ended up racing motorbikes on the beach against their hard-drinking superior officer, Elvy, getting drunk with CHUCK RIGGINS, a dudebro American football player turned mech pilot, and the campaign ending on the cliffhanger that the Russians had entered the war and there were Spetznaz mechs operating on Kyushu.

Most of the sessions were 2/3 on-base shenanigans and then a mission briefing before some operation would take place. It was, all told, great fun.

>>15039476

500 is kinda a lot, really. But hey, give it a shot, see what you get.

Heh... "Give it a shot."

>>15039500
well, wouldn't know yet, but if 300-700, 500 seemed the middle ground?

>>15039374

I look at it this way: You should be able to make a Zalu II for just under 100 CP. Scale up or down from there.

>>15039498
I love how MZ is actually a pretty good system for doing out of combat type stuff. That campaign sounds fun.

I ran a MZ/C2020 game where we only had 4 battles in 12 sessions. The players ended up spending more time exploring the world, investigating into a conspiracy, union busting, and other fun stuff.

>>15039548
I used 300 for something like Gundam Exia, and probably could have done it for cheaper, while 700 was for an endgame monster of a unit.

300-350 should be more than enough for a starting machine that's still supposed to be special.

>>15039498

It sounds terrific. What system did you use?

>>15039598
Thanks for the heads up.

If I'm just making a phalanx or countermissile system; do I need to buy up a certain level of damage appropriate to the missiles, or is 1 enough if that's their only use?

>>15039720
Damage and range are irrelevant if it's Phalanx-only. You can get one for a total of 5 cost: Damage 1 Burst 8 Phalanx Only costs 4 CP, then 25 uses worth of Standard Ammo costs another 1 CP.

>>15039623
It was Battle Century G, which I prefer to Mekton.

It was followed by my attempt at doing Galient/Escaflowne that ended up going wildly out of hand with /m/ references until it was basically the Fury Knights invading Liberl with the help of Wodan, Master Asia, the Hau Dragon, the Magic Knights and Shu Shirakawa's ghost (albeit with names changed).

>This cockpit comfortably sits the pilot and has enough room for one other person to sit in the pilot's lap (the pilot has a penalty of -1 to attack and defend, but is possibly very, very happy despite the disadvantages)
I'm liking this thing more and more. Also am reminded of Vandread.

Any replacement now that this one's over bump limit?

>>15040082
>Any replacement now that this one's over bump limit?

I'll make one...

OK, here it is:

>>15040182