Most likeable Zeon character in the franchise comin through:

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>>14981672
>Most likeable Zeon character in the franchise

My favorite was Bernie.

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>>14981688

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>>14981690

>all those Haman flashbacks were fake memories created on the spot by his mind
I didn't realize he was cyber til the "sexy" flashback, then it Dawned on me

That's not Anavel Gato, Shin Matsunaga and Johnny Ridden.

>>14981707
>Gato
Are you serious? Gato is the same character as Marshmallow but played straight. Its awful.

>>14981710
How is he awful?

Gato is an idealist who fights for what he believes in, except he's also a decent human being.

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What no love for Ral

>Decent human
>Key figure in a plan to ensure starvation and hardship for fellow spacenoids by creating a massive food shortage because he and his pals wanted to restart the most destructive and bloody war in human history.

>>14982107
Actually Gato should have dropped on Jaburo, he changed target because god know Jaburo is still standing in Zeta.

Everything he did, he did for spacenoid freedom.

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>>14982107
He was a disillusioned vet who believed he was cheated out of a warrior's death.By the time of the naval review Gato didn't really care for the couse anymore.He was just looking to go down in a blaze of glory.

>>14982138
He was looking to complete Operation Stardust actually.

Even in his last breath, he tried to help his troops going back to the Axis.

>>14982117
The target was never Jaburo to begin with, the EF just thought it was. The plan was to drop it on North America because that's where a large portion of the EFs food was produced and they were hoping the ensuing food shortage would breed resentment and create a new spacenoid vs EF war.

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>>14981672
>>14981688

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>>14981672
This is his fault.

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>>14981672
Marshmellow doesn't stand a chance against the might of Glemy

>>14982473
And we give thanks

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>>14981672

>>14981712
>How is he awful?

He's a good soldier, but let's be real here: He's a fanatic militant wanting to plunge the Earthsphere into the desolation of war yet again because he couldn't get over the fact that his side lost OYW when Zeon officially surrendered. He believes in his ideals so heavily that resorts to acts of terrorism and genocide with people he thinks disagrees with him whether or not they actually do.

Not to mention that he's a prick in person.

>>14984539
> He believes in his ideals so heavily that resorts to acts of terrorism and genocide with people he thinks disagrees with him whether or not they actually do.
He believes that the EF is a piece of crap that deserves to be toppled and spacenoids will never have freedom with the EF in charge.
And he's right, the EF is generally a piece of shit and stay the exact same until they get dissolved because they can't handle spacenoid rebellion anymore.

>Not to mention that he's a prick in person.
He's not even a prick to his enemy (Kou Uraki).

>>14981712
>Gato is an idealist who fights for what he believes in, except he's also a decent human being.

Humans are gifted with free will. When you stay in an organization hell bent on the extermination of a good part of the human race decency was never there in the first place.
Stop Zeon revisionism.
Gato is a war criminal, like Ghiren, like that female zeon lady that gassed a colony etc...

>>14984556
Gato truly fought for space independence against the corrupt EF, and that's a noble cause.

And I would fight with him any days against EF coward dogs who don't even believe in their cause.

>>14984560
>Gato truly fought for space independence against the corrupt EF, and that's a noble cause.And I would fight with him any days against EF coward dogs who don't even believe in their cause.

Dr. Mengele truly believed in advancing medicine by experimenting on human prisoners. Himmler truly believed in the superiority of the arian race and the extermination of the jews. You can truly believe in something, it doesn't make it noble or romantic. Zeon is space nazism, and those that support the zeonic ideal are fucking nazis.

>>14984626
And I would sooner fight with those nazis than cowards who don't even believe in their causes.

Spacenoid independence is a noble cause, and no one can dispute that.

>>14984629
>Spacenoid independence is a noble cause, and no one can dispute that.
Ignoring the fact that it's demonstrated in-universe multiple times that they already have independence?

>>14984634
No, just Side 3, not other spacenoids.

>>14984629
>no one can dispute that
I can, the only groups that wanted independence in UC were space nazis who gassed and dropped Spacenoid colonies, dumped unmanned AI buzzsaw drones into them to exterminate them, or planned to make all life on Earth literally retarded.
Plus, Jupiter is already independent. They're Stalinist Russia and about as bad.

>>14984649
You are not dispusting anything, they did all that to destroy the corrupt EF that holds them in chains.

>>14984651
What chains? They can grow their own food, manufacture their own equipment, don't need to pay any more taxes than people on Earth, get a well paying job, and can go to whichever other colony they want as long as they can afford the transportation. There are no chains, just a bunch of dictator wannabes.

>>14984659
The chains are the colonies that the Fed are holding in place.

Spacenoid must have their own independence and self determination, to get the fuck out of the EF when it's deemed unprofitable and harmful to them.

>>14982138

Even if that were true, and it's not, but even if it were, organising a massive bloodbath so you can starve a load of people and restart the largest war in history just because you want a glorious death and put your desire for glory above the lives and well being of millions is about as far from the definition of "good" person as you can find. Gato is mostly just boring though, because he basically only has one trait: muh Zeon!

>>14984670
No, Gato fought for spacenoid independence and he wants another space war to destroy the EF, the EF being a corrupted and evil instutition, that means he's doing more good for the world.

>>14984666
Last I checked, a 5% increase in taxes was a bit less harmful and unprofitable than all of your air being replaced by knockoff Zyklon B.

>>14984680
Nah, there's no reason why the EF can tax the colonies.

The colonies are their own states already, and they do not have to subject to the EF's greedy slimy hands.

>>14984629

> cowards who don't believe in their cause

Plenty of EF soldiers were neither cowards nor lacked belief. Not to mention the Zeon soldiers in 0079 who didn't believe in their cause at all and really just wanted to go home.

>>14984683
I don't know about 0079, but in 0083, the EF soldiers are just doing their job, they have no ideals, and Kou Uraki himself is shitted on the EF despite saving everyone.

>>14984681
You mean states like the United States?
They have taxes too.
Everyone has taxes.

>>14984686
>and Kou Uraki himself is shitted on by the EF despite saving everyone*

>>14984689
No, like full countries like in Europe or Russia, that are not succumbed to taxes by a foreign entity.

>>14984681

> Nah, there's no reason why the EF can tax the colonies.

Because they're a government and provide infrastructure and services and need money to do so? Like every government ever. Also, why is Zeon in Side 3 ruling colonies on the other side of the planting Side 1 or whatever better than the Earth doing so? Even though Side 3 is actually further from those colonies than Earth.

>>14984694
You mean the ones that have been their own countries for centuries?
They've got taxes for other countries too, they're called tariffs.

>>14984696
>Because they're a government and provide infrastructure and services and need money to do so?
The colonies, as proven by Zeon/Side 3, can take care of themselves, no need for the EF.
>Also, why is Zeon in Side 3 ruling colonies on the other side of the planting Side 1 or whatever better than the Earth doing so? Even though Side 3 is actually further from those colonies than Earth.
Zeon conquered them or bought them before.

>>14984686

> I don't know about 0079

Not surprising.

>>14984694

Minsk in Russia is about as foreign to Moscow as Side 2 is to Earth. It's really just distance and social convention, nothing more.

>>14984699
Yes, and the colonies are their own countries too.
>They've got taxes for other countries too, they're called tariffs.
Tariffs/import taxes are not compared to the taxes that the colonies have to pay for the EF.

>>14984710
>Minsk in Russia is about as foreign to Moscow as Side 2 is to Earth. It's really just distance and social convention, nothing more.
And Russia is its own country, not to be taxed by an EF.

The same for the colonies.

>>14984703
>The colonies, as proven by Zeon/Side 3, can take care of themselves, no need for the EF.
You mean the guys who gassed their fellow spacenoids, lost all their competent pilots to one kid, and who's own rightful leader past the One Year War fucking hates?
You could have at least gone for Von Braun, they seemed pretty independent.
>>14984712
Then what taxes do they pay that Earthnoids don't?

>>14984725
>You mean the guys who gassed their fellow spacenoids, lost all their competent pilots to one kid, and who's own rightful leader past the One Year War fucking hates?
Yes, the one who nearly manages to defeat the EF, yes.
As well as Cosmo Babylonia, and Zanscare and all other spacenoid movement, as long as the EF exists, spacenoids will desire independence.
>Then what taxes do they pay that Earthnoids don't?
The taxes that go to the EF instead of the colonies's own government?

>>14984703

> the colonies can take care of themselves

So what? Mathematically we know Texas can afford to secede since it makes more in local taxes than it gets from the overall United States government. It's a matter of public record that they do. Plenty of cities or districts probably do. Doesn't mean squat, since there are other things to think about like culture, and in some cases legal obligations. Like the fact Texas is legally bound to be a United States state if I recall.

> Zeon conquered them

No, they didn't.

> Or bought them

Didn't do that either. They did destroy them though. If rule by force is okay for Zeon why is it wrong for the EF though?

>>14984712

And Russia only became a country by conquering and holding areas like Minsk for a prolonged period. Long enough any bad feelings about it disappeared. Go back 2000 years and that certainly wouldn't be true.

>>14984734
>So what?
So they can secede if they want to, that's self determination.
>They did destroy them though.
So they didn't rule them.
>If rule by force is okay for Zeon why is it wrong for the EF though?
Because EF controls ALL the colonies, this is not right, the colonies/Sides should have full autonomy.
>And Russia only became a country by conquering and holding areas like Minsk for a prolonged period. Long enough any bad feelings about it disappeared. Go back 2000 years and that certainly wouldn't be true
And? Zeon/side 3/spacenoids do not subject themselves to EF rule, thus they rebel to have their own government.
Every spacenoid rebellion proves that the people have not accepted the EF.

>>14984731
Near defeat isn't defeat, and has nothing do do with taking care of food, water, housing, air, fuel, or anything else essential to keeping the colonies running.
What taxes go to the EF instead of the colonies, how much isn't just spent on keeping the colonies working, and how is it different from the taxes that the state governments of the US maintain along with the federal taxes?

>>14984745
>Near defeat isn't defeat, and has nothing do do with taking care of food, water, housing, air, fuel, or anything else essential to keeping the colonies running.
The colonies can already do all of those by themselves, no need for the EF.
>What taxes go to the EF instead of the colonies, how much isn't just spent on keeping the colonies working,
I don't know and I don't care because the colonies don't need to pay taxes to the EF.
>and how is it different from the taxes that the state governments of the US maintain along with the federal taxes?
Well, the colonies desire their own independence as countries/states on their own, the EF is not the United States, it's the New World Order.

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>>14984751
>How is the Federation not literally America
>LOL WHO CARES

>>14984757
The EF is not the United States, it's the New World Order.

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>>14984760
>New World Order
Oh, then there's even less reason for them to want to leave, since all live in the galaxy wants to do some combination of raping, eating, murdering, neutering, or enslaving humans.

>>14984774
No, there's every reasons for them to leave, because the NWO is seriously bullshit.

A minority who sits and dines while controlling every single nations/countries on Earth, that shit has to go.

>>14984779
No, I think I'd rather have the Inquisition running around than be in a Slaaneshi rape dungeon or whatever. It really is the safest option.

>>14984784
OK, brah, but we are not talking about 40K.

We are talking about EF, which is the NWO, a "democratic" hell.

>>14984744

> So they can secede if they want to, that's self determination.

No, one person or group deciding this is how the Colony feels and then acting like whole feels that way is the opposite of self determination. If they really believed in it they'd hold a referendum to see if the majority really felt that way, rather than deciding it was true because they felt that way.

>So they didn't rule them.

No, but then that wasn't the point. The point was that if Side 3 did rget their way and rule them it'd be even more questionable than Earth doing so since they'd be even more distant to the Sides than Earth is. And that you seemingly being okay with Zeon ruling those Sides by force but hating Earth doing it is hypocritical.


> Because EF controls ALL the colonies, this is not right, the colonies/Sides should have full autonomy.

Where does that line end though? One Side ruling all others is no better. Shouldn't each Side have autonomy? Or each colony? Should every home have autonomy?


> Every spacenoid rebellion proves that the people have not accepted the EF.

No, it proves that some people haven't. Which isn't the same. It isn't even proof of a majority.

>>14984789
No, you said we were talking about the Imperium, remember?

>>14984801
Uhm, no, I don't remember so.

>>14984797
>No, one person or group deciding this is how the Colony feels and then acting like whole feels that way is the opposite of self determination.
No, the people who fought in the spacenoid rebellion believe that they can take of themselves, without needing the EF.
>If they really believed in it they'd hold a referendum to see if the majority really felt that way, rather than deciding it was true because they felt that way.
A minority does not have to abide to the majority's decision, they can decide by themselves.
>No, but then that wasn't the point. The point was that if Side 3 did rget their way and rule them it'd be even more questionable than Earth doing so since they'd be even more distant to the Sides than Earth is.
If that happens, we would rise up and depose the Zeon ruling in Side 3.
>Where does that line end though? One Side ruling all others is no better. Shouldn't each Side have autonomy? Or each colony? Should every home have autonomy?
Every sides should have autonomy, and if any side become too big, it should be broken up.
>No, it proves that some people haven't. Which isn't the same. It isn't even proof of a majority.
And the fact these rebellions keep happening and happening means the EF is gonna be destroyed one day, and I'm glad because of it.

>>14984813

> No, the people who fought in the spacenoid rebellion believe that they can take of themselves, without needing the EF.

Belief doesn't dictate reality.

> A minority does not have to abide to the majority's decision, they can decide by themselves.

Just because they can doesn't mean they will.

>If that happens, we would rise up and depose the Zeon ruling in Side 3.

You do realise you don't actually live in a cartoon I hope? Also, you're basically empowering endless war by advocating that violence is the answer to any disagreement. Rather than ever trying diplomacy or anything else.

> Every sides should have autonomy, and if any side become too big, it should be broken up.

If everyone thought that way wed still be a highly tribal society scratching in the dirt and there wouldn't even be dreams of space colonies since having more cows would be as high as most dared dream.

> And the fact these rebellions keep happening and happening means the EF is gonna be destroyed one day, and I'm glad because of it.

And whoever destroys the EF will themselves be destroyed by disaffected elements of the society they helped build because some people are never happy regardless of circumstance.

>>14984849
>Belief doesn't dictate reality.
Reality shows they can fully take care of themselves.
>Just because they can doesn't mean they will.
They are already willing.
>
You do realise you don't actually live in a cartoon I hope? Also, you're basically empowering endless war by advocating that violence is the answer to any disagreement. Rather than ever trying diplomacy or anything else.
We want to leave, if you do not accept that then war it is, it's pretty simple. The right of self-determination trumps all.
>
If everyone thought that way wed still be a highly tribal society scratching in the dirt and there wouldn't even be dreams of space colonies since having more cows would be as high as most dared dream.
There's no point to having space colonies or shit if we live under the New World Order, technology is supposed to spread people far and wide, not confined them to colonies to be taxed by the EF.
>And whoever destroys the EF will themselves be destroyed by disaffected elements of the society they helped build because some people are never happy regardless of circumstance.
And so be it, that's history, no regime lasts forever.

>>14984805
Of course you did.
>>14984751
>>14984760
>>14984779
>>14984789

>>14984876
I'm talking about the Earth Federation in Gundam, anon, not the Glorious Imperium of Men.

>>14984882
Yes, I know, you were comparing the two.
There's a lot in common, most notably that every alternative is much, much worse.

>>14984900
Where did I bring up the Imperium again?

The New World Order I'm talking about is far from the Imperium, because the NWO is supposed to be "democratic".

>>14984905
You mean like the Imperium, where the High Lords of Terra are elected and manage the Imperium in the Emperor's stead?

>>14984906
The High Lords of Terra are not elected by the populace, they are representatives of their own organization, which are not democratic.

>>14984910
The Imperium has more than a few democratic planetary governments, I wouldn't be surprised if one or two High Lords were elected at least partially democratically.

>>14984913
Determining who will hold the position of High Lord has resulted in millennia of political intrigue between the various bureaucracies seeking to increase their power. However, some organisations are so powerful, so fundamentally important to the Imperium, that their position on the Council is considered sacrosanct. For this reason the following nine offices are almost always represented as High Lords:[1]

The Master of the Administratum
The Inquisitorial Representative[1]
The Ecclesiarch of the Adeptus Ministorum
The Fabricator-General of the Adeptus Mechanicus
The Grand Provost Marshal of the Adeptus Arbites
The Paternoval Envoy of the Navigators
The Master of the Astronomican
The Grand Master of the Officio Assassinorum
The Master of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica

The remaining three positions are most likely to be filled from among the following powerful leaders:[1]

Lord Commander of Segmentum Solar
Lord Commander Militant of the Imperial Guard
Cardinal(s) of the Holy Synod of Terra
The Abbess of the Adepta Sororitas
Captain-General of the Adeptus Custodes
The Chancellor of the Estate Imperium
The Speaker for the Chartist Captains[10]
Lord High Admiral of the Imperial Navy[6]

I would say they are not democratically elected by the populace.

>>14984918
Of course not, the Imperium is millions of planets with millions of billions of citizens. They'd be elected by their own organization.
What's next, are you going to suggest they elect a new Emperor, maybe make some new Primarchs?

>>14984926
No, my point is the Imperium will not bother with the farce of the democracy, unlike the NWO, who will keep the populace compliance by pretending it's "democratic".

>>14984931
Yes it does, there are planets with democratic governments. The Imperium leaves most of planetary management to their governors and only cares that it gets its tithes and that there's no heresy going on. Most people barely even know that they're part of an Imperium, as far as they're aware, they've got the only planet in the galaxy.

>>14984870

> Reality shows they can fully take care of themselves.

Reality says they're fiscally capable of doing so, but martiallly, socially and politically incapable since they keep relying on warmongers to lead them and ending up in wars they lose.

>They are already willing.

A violent portion are willing. Which isn't the same as the majority.


> We want to leave, if you do not accept that then war it is, it's pretty simple. The right of self-determination trumps all.

Except you haven't asked if the majority agrees, you're just assuming they do and starting a war that you're making them support. Which is actually the opposite of self determination.


> There's no point to having space colonies or shit if we live under the New World Order, technology is supposed to spread people far and wide, not confined them to colonies to be taxed by the EF.

Some people in villages 3000 years ago would see the notion of a nation, of Hobbes' Leviathan as New World Order. Calling it an name doesn't make it bad.

> And so be it, that's history, no regime lasts forever.

Which doesn't mean any regime inherently deserves replacing. If it did every regime would be replaced as soon as it was established and none would ever do anything.

>>14984948
The point remains that the Imperium itself does not pretend it's a democracy, unlike the NWO.

It just leaves the governors to do whatever they want with their planets.

The NWO on the other hand will be a "democratic" world government.

>my ZZ thread turned into 0083 then politics then Warhammer
Has nobody watched ZZ?? Its really fuckin good, dammit!

>>14984952
>Reality says they're fiscally capable of doing so, but martiallly, socially and politically incapable since they keep relying on warmongers to lead them and ending up in wars they lose.
Reality shows that they are fully capable of taking care of themselves, the Feddies just don't want them to.
>A violent portion are willing. Which isn't the same as the majority.
That violent portion can leave by themselves.
>Except you haven't asked if the majority agrees, you're just assuming they do and starting a war that you're making them support. Which is actually the opposite of self determination.
Who gives a crap what the majority think? We as a minority believe in it and will secede on our own.
>Some people in villages 3000 years ago would see the notion of a nation, of Hobbes' Leviathan as New World Order. Calling it an name doesn't make it bad.
Perhaps they would, but the NWO is still not formed yet because there are multi factions to the world, unlike the EF who control Earth and all the colonies, the only other faction is the Jupiter Fleet.
>Which doesn't mean any regime inherently deserves replacing. If it did every regime would be replaced as soon as it was established and none would ever do anything.
Every corrupt regimes deserve replacing, and the EF is corrupted to its very core.

>>14984970
>the NWO is still not formed yet
yeah it was. Bash At The Beach 1996 brotherdudejack

>>14984992
Nein, it's still not formed yet, NATO comes close after the defeat of USSR, but nowadays the world is split into 3.

This is why as an anti-NWO, I must support dissidents.

>>14985002
No, that's when it was formed. I think it fell apart a while back, though, but I never paid much attention to it.

>>14984970

> Reality shows that they are fully capable of taking care of themselves, the Feddies just don't want them to.

The Federation has given autonomy to both Side 3 and Side 5. They're completely okay with them leaving, just not with them trying to take over from the Federation and all its territory. Including Earth.

Also, taking care of yourself is about more than fiscal independence, which is all that the Colonies have ever shown themselves capable of.

> That violent portion can leave by themselves.

They could. They never do, but they could.

> Who gives a crap what the majority think? We as a minority believe in it and will secede on our own.

If you don't care what the majority want so long as the minority is powerful enough then you're literally no different than the EF.

> Perhaps they would, but the NWO is still not formed yet because there are multi factions to the world

No, only a nation, which would be their whole world a thousand times over in most cases.

> unlike the EF who control Earth and all the colonies, the only other faction is the Jupiter Fleet.

One faction in political control doesn't prevent other social factions from existing to help ensure diversity in thought etc.

> Every corrupt regimes deserve replacing, and the EF is corrupted to its very core.

So you want to replace a corrupt faction with a far more corrupt faction that has an even worse record of human rights?

>>14985004
The NWO was never fully formed, even with the creation of the UN.

>>14985005
>The Federation has given autonomy to both Side 3 and Side 5. They're completely okay with them leaving, just not with them trying to take over from the Federation and all its territory. Including Earth.
The Zeon war happens officially because of the sanctions, but partly because Gihren wants Earth too, but that it's his ambition. The cause of spacenoid independence is just.
>Also, taking care of yourself is about more than fiscal independence, which is all that the Colonies have ever shown themselves capable of.
As long as you can produce and use your own stuff, you can take care of yourself.
>They could. They never do, but they could.
They already show themselves as various spacenoid rebellions.
>If you don't care what the majority want so long as the minority is powerful enough then you're literally no different than the EF.
No, the EF wants to control everyone, we spacenoids just want a space for ourselves.
>No, only a nation, which would be their whole world a thousand times over in most cases.
But not their world as large, even the smallest nations know of other nations.
>One faction in political control doesn't prevent other social factions from existing to help ensure diversity in thought etc.
There's not even different political parties in the EF, and there's no diversity in their thoughts since the EF is only about two things: control and money.
>So you want to replace a corrupt faction with a far more corrupt faction that has an even worse record of human rights?
I don't give a shit about human rights, I detest corruption more.

>>14985013
Yes it was, it was a pretty big event. It lasted all the way to last year, until the leader turned out to be a huge racist or whatever and got fired.

>>14985033
Care to point out that certain organization, because up to last year, there are still more than 3 factions to this world.

>>14985045
You what?
It's right there in the event that Dorkly brought up.
Can you not use google or something?

>>14985050
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bash_at_the_Beach_(1996)

Do you mean this?

I do not think this is the New World Order.

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>>14985045
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Order_(professional_wrestling)

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>>14985050
he's right though, there are still other factions, like Perros Del Mal

>>14985058
Oh sorry, I am not into wrestling.

>>14985030

> The Zeon war happens officially because of the sanctions

If they couldn't actually survive without contact and trade with other nations and groups they can't actually be independent. Not to mention that officially as soon as they were unhappy with the sanctions they started gearing up for war instead of even trying anything else. So officially it's just as much their fault as the EFs.

> but partly because Gihren wants Earth too, but that it's his ambition.

And the fact one man's ambition could twist the whole faction is a sign of it's corruption.

> The cause of spacenoid independence is just.

So is the cause of a unified Earthsphere.

> As long as you can produce and use your own stuff, you can take care of yourself.

Not really. No more than a rich cat who was bequeathed it's owners money can take care of itself. It has the material means, but not the mental prowess to use those goods.

> They already show themselves as various spacenoid rebellions.

Except the rebels have never just left - they've always tried to take over the EF's territory and role.

> No, the EF wants to control everyone, we spacenoids just want a space for ourselves.

The only group that's ever acted as such was Side 5. Who, surprise, were the only remotely peaceful ones.

> But not their world as large, even the smallest nations know of other nations.

The nations do, the civilians within them often didn't, except as distant stories of a handful of others in most cases. Which is really no different from them vaguely knowing the Jupiter Energy Fleet exists.

> There's not even different political parties in the EF, and there's no diversity in their thoughts since the EF is only about two things: control and money.

Control and money describes every government ever, Zeon included.

> I don't give a shit about human rights, I detest corruption more.

Why are you advocating for the far more corrupt Zeon then?

>>14985122
>If they couldn't actually survive without contact and trade with other nations and groups they can't actually be independent. Not to mention that officially as soon as they were unhappy with the sanctions they started gearing up for war instead of even trying anything else. So officially it's just as much their fault as the EFs.
Side 3 can take care of itself, it's mad about the sanctions because the EF refuses to play ball with it.
>And the fact one man's ambition could twist the whole faction is a sign of it's corruption.
Gihren's an ambitious man and I don't blame him for not, but Zeon as a whole fights for spacenoid independence.
>So is the cause of a unified Earthsphere.
No, it's not, unified Earthsphere is a bad cause because it means one group controlling everything.
>Not really. No more than a rich cat who was bequeathed it's owners money can take care of itself. It has the material means, but not the mental prowess to use those goods.
But the rich cat in this case can take care of itself, it has taken care of itself for years now.
>Except the rebels have never just left - they've always tried to take over the EF's territory and role.
Because it's their colonies, their territory.
>The only group that's ever acted as such was Side 5. Who, surprise, were the only remotely peaceful ones.
No Side 5 got back into the EF after the war, that's not the outcome dissidents want.
>The nations do, the civilians within them often didn't, except as distant stories of a handful of others in most cases. Which is really no different from them vaguely knowing the Jupiter Energy Fleet exists.
The civies know of them, even in ancient times they have known of foreigners.
>Control and money describes every government ever, Zeon included.
Zeon desires independence, unlike the EF.
>Why are you advocating for the far more corrupt Zeon then?
The EF is far more corrupt than Zeon.

>>14985141
>>14985030
>>14984970
You're that Vietnamese retard who thinks warlordism is a good thing, right? The rampant hate boner for the EF and ranting about the NWO give it away.

>>14985152
The very same.

Power is to broken up, not concentrated.

>>14985155

The literal definition of a warlord is all power being in the hands of one (militant) person. That's the very opposite of breaking up power.

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>zeek apologists shit up another thread.

Every fucking time.

Even worse, this was supposed to be a thread about likable Zeon characters with nobody even mentioning the Feds or spacenoid ideals until some zeekfag brought it up. I swear that they are like /m/'s version of /pol/tards.

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Can we all just relax and talk about Mashymre now?

We can also talk about Chara too, she was cool.

>>14982089
Ramba Ral showed me a true warrior's fate. Best Zeon and best soldier.

>>14985174
No, the power is broken up between different warlords, so that no one is in total control of the land.
>>14985334
Dude, I mention fucking Gato being a likeable character and these people will skin me alive for liking an idealistic warrior and how he's a bad space nazi.

Apparently, "likeable" Zeon character must only be done in jest (Mashmyre) or actually hates Zeon ideal (Ramba Ral).

>>14985859

The technical term for multiple warlords existing in a remotely contiguous area is a warzone. For the simple reason that none of them are ever satisfied with their lot and they always, always try to extend their control further. A fact that always makes life shittier for everyone in the vicinity. Because they live in a warzone. And because life under a warlord is so focused on martial prowess, science, social betterment and so on never take hold, because every warlord kills anyone trying those things, since doing so endangers their power.

Also, Ramba Rally didn't hate Zeon and people aren't skinning you for defending an idealist, they're skinning you for defending Gato, both because he's boring and because his idealism nearly restarted a war, killed a shit load of people and gave an authorial group power. No shit people don't agree with you thinking he's in any way a decent person.

>>14985896
Yes and that warzone means no power is absolutely not concentrated and broken up. That's a lesser evil than everyone being controlled by an unified government
>For the simple reason that none of them are ever satisfied with their lot and they always, always try to extend their control further.
And they cannot, because other warlords keep their power in check.
>they're skinning you for defending Gato, both because he's boring and because his idealism nearly restarted a war, killed a shit load of people and gave an authorial group power. No shit people don't agree with you thinking he's in any way a decent person.
He isn't boring, he has his own personality, style of fighting and ideals, and his fight is a just one against the corrupt rule of EF, the EF needs to be toppled.
>No shit people don't agree with you thinking he's in any way a decent person.
Well they are wrong because he's a fucking noble warrior AND a decent person.

>>14985859
Gato's a likeable guy. I can sympathise with his desire for blood and admire his skills and dedication.
That doesn't stop him from being the U.C equivalent of Osama though.

>>14985480
she's not cute at all

>>14985918
Osama actually was trained by the US at one time.

Gato is purely Zeonic thorough.

>>14985911
>fires a nuke
>creates the Titans
>Listens to Gihren fucking Zabi
>Decent person

>>14985941
He fires a nuke at a military target.
>creates the Titans
No, the EF is what creates the Titans.
>Listens to Gihren fucking Zabi
And his ideal of spacenoid independence.
>Decent person
He treats his friends well, and even has respect and care for his enemies, such as when he fucking advises Kou in his first sorting.

>>14985911

> everyone being killed by war is a lesser evil than a government actually controlling stuff
> warlords never die, flee or get taken over by rivals so the system is fine despite the continuous state of war, lack of infrastructure, complete lack of science or any kind of invention because warlords are totally known for their stability
> Gato was an idealist and not a blind zealot

I honestly don't even know which particular nugget of gold to disdain first. I'm not gonna disdain any of them any further though, because trying to argue on the internet is ultimately futile. Especially with someone who appears to genuinely believe they're living in a cartoon and won't stop talking about conspiracy theory nonsense like an NWO boogey man.

>>14985951
>everyone being killed by war is a lesser evil than a government actually controlling stuff
Yes, because freedom matters the most, when the unified government controls everything, there's no more freedom.
>> warlords never die, flee or get taken over by rivals so the system is fine despite the continuous state of war, lack of infrastructure, complete lack of science or any kind of invention because warlords are totally known for their stability
If warlords die, another one rise up to replace him, the point is to never let the government unified and become THE supreme warlord/bureaucrat.
>Gato was an idealist and not a blind zealot
He was a noble warrior AND a decent person who fought for spacenoid independence and did it well.
>Especially with someone who appears to genuinely believe they're living in a cartoon and won't stop talking about conspiracy theory nonsense like an NWO boogey man.
Nobody is living in a cartoon world, I know full well of the attempt to control the world via a singular order, and that shit is 100 times more vile than a multipolar world.

>>14985954
>Yes, because freedom matters the most, when the unified government controls everything, there's no more freedom.
I'm pretty sure that being free and being dead conflict a little bit.

>>14985962
A warlord will never exterminate his own populace, because he needs you to fight in his war. He will even force you to have guns so you can be scrambled into war as soon as you can.

This is why you can be more free in a warzone than a bundled up society, where you can be killed anytime they want because the unified government has a stable population to replace you at any times and every flows of information are controlled.

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>>14985947
>No, the EF is what creates the Titans.
>Literally everybody got played and took the bait

Buahahaha

>>14985966
Does not change the point.

The EF is what creates the Titans.

>>14985965

> A warlord will never exterminate his own populace

You don't actually believe this bullshit do you? I mean they're unlikely to kill all their own populace but they all routinely kill large numbers of their own people to exert control or worse, on a whim. Pol Pot for instance. Even then, the historical Dracula almost wiped out the population of Walachia.

>>14985972
I actually believe that because as said, they will never exterminate ALL of their populace, unlike the unified government.

>Even then, the historical Dracula almost wiped out the population of Walachia.
And the people still hail him as a hero, because the man stood up against the turks and enforced the laws.

>>14985965
>A warlord will never exterminate his own populace, because he needs you to fight in his war.
He also needs to maintain control. The best way for him to do that is kill off anyone who opposes him, for example by trying to not get thrown into a meatgrinder by some jackass with the military skills of the average Call of Duty player, and instead stay home and farm, or own their own gun, or just grow something they like to eat.
>you can be killed anytime they want
A perfect description of dictatorships.

Who's even arguing what anymore

>>14985979

That's even more delusional than I thought then, both because you think any unified government is going to wipe out all their populace despite a complete lack of any evidence beyond your own paranoid delusions and because you think a warlord wouldn't despite actual evidence that they routinely slaughter large numbers of their own people and that historical examples exist of them wiping out their own population.

>>14985986
>He also needs to maintain control.
And that control is relative to the populace, because if he kills all the populace, no one will fight in his war.
>A perfect description of dictatorships.
No, it's a perfect description for any government, and the bigger it is, the more it kills.

>>14985991
The greatest slaughter in humanity happens in an unified government, under Mao Zedong.

Meanwhile ethnic cleansing by warlords in Africa barely amount to shit, or even the ethnic cleansing in the Yugoslavian war too.

So you are in fact, wrong.

Holy fuck, can you take this inane back and forth to /pol/ or /int/, please?

>>14985994

Mao Zedong does actually qualify as a warlord you realise, since all power in China was through him and he headed a martial society. He dressed it up in fancier terms, but that's all he was in reality.

>>14986011
And? He does it under a unified government and it is only possible through that, this massacre would not have happened if Chiang Kai Shek still controls half of China.

>>14986016
I'd put money on the percentages of Chinese citizens dying being greater if he did have someone he was in open war with around.

>>14986024
Then you would be wrong because he needs those millions to fight the war for him.

This is why there's actually peace between Nork and Sork, each side needs their populace for war.

>>14986027
You mean the war where they'd be dying?

>>14986029
Yes, the war that does not happen because both sides are kept in check by their own paranoid of each other.

>>14986031
>by their own fear of each other*

>>14986016

A world where warlords were the norm and that also has access to weapons of mass destruction is a world where people like Mao would be the norm. Because each little one would do what any big authoritarian leader like Mao or Stalin has done and kill their way to the top, then kill a shit load of their own people to get even more power, resources and so on, but do it on a grand scale using those weapons that operate on a grand scale. Warlords in Africa are small time becuase they have only small resources. Any warlord that gets really successful uses different terms, but does the same thing on a larger scale, mass slaughter of their own citizens included.

>>14986031
See, I think you're missing the part where it would be open war, it's that bit where people are sent to die for their country. They'd be busy trying to seize each other's territory, which would involve their troops shooting at each other and dying.

>>14986027
If dprk needed troops for war they'd feed them lol

>>14986043
No, the world where warlords were the norm will never amount to the amount slaughters that Stalin and Mao did, simply because they would have only small resources and small populace and live in constant fear against each other.

>Any warlord that gets really successful uses different terms, but does the same thing on a larger scale, mass slaughter of their own citizens included.
It does not matter if it's a warlord/democracy/group, any big government will amount to mass death due to their desire to control the populace.

>>14986046
But there is no open war because it's undesirable for both sides, thus it keeps the peace.

>>14986055
There is open war, because the end result is desirable for both sides.

>>14986058
No, there isn't.

The Sork government would fucking collapse due to the amount of norks they have to bring up to modern western living standards.

The Norks frankly cannot feed the sorks.

>>14986064
We're not talking about them, we're talking about China. Get it together, man.

>>14986067
What wrestling stables are out of China?

>>14986067
What? China open war happens due to the fact Chiang Kai Shek is weakened after the war with the japs.

And the open war itself is less devastating the slaughter that Mao later did after he unified the country.

>>14986050

If you went back and literally changed history to ensure the world wasn't interconnected and interdependent or had access to weapons of mass destruction like it now does, then yea, sure. It also wouldn't have a lot of other stuff, but if you did that then warlords would remain small and no-one would ever grow huge or that threatening because of the lack of resources or connection. If you instituted in the current or a future world though, no, because we do have those things.

>>14986055

No, there is no open war in that one case because one side is afraid to take on essentially the entire world if they declare war and the other side just doesn't want the hassle since there'd be no real reward. That isn't the normal, natural state for warlords though and acting like that's the norm is silly. The norm for warlords historically is for them to be at war with each other. Hence the term warlord in the first place. If you had lots of warlords, then you'd have lots of wars and very little stability. Some of them would refrain some of the time, but there isn't a hope in hell they'd all do so or that the system would offer any stability. One look at a history book would tell you that.

>>14986079
The unified governments have all the weapons of mass destructions to this world, but this is what keeps the world in peace because they point all the guns at each other instead of focusing on controlling their populace, which will happen under the NWO when everything is unified.

This must not allow to happen.

>No, there is no open war in that one case because one side is afraid to take on essentially the entire world if they declare war and the other side just doesn't want the hassle since there'd be no real reward.
If there is only Nork and Sork, there wouldn't be open war either.
>That isn't the normal, natural state for warlords though and acting like that's the norm is silly. The norm for warlords historically is for them to be at war with each other. Hence the term warlord in the first place.
And these wars are never as costly as wars between big government, and precisely why warlord is the ideal, since it cannot harm humanity as a whole.
>If you had lots of warlords, then you'd have lots of wars and very little stability.
The stability is the war and the peace they kept, under the NWO, there will be ultimate stability where everyone is a slave to one government.
>One look at a history book would tell you that.
The history book tells me one thing: Big government kills much more than small government.

>>14986091

> if a unified government had no opposition it would instead kill it's population

Remember those paranoid ramblings I mentioned?

> If there is only Nork and Sork there wouldn't be open war either.

History says otherwise. When two nations think they're the only groups around they try to kill each other until only one remains, not exist in peace. In this case, if Nork and Sork controlled the world or existed in a vacuum then Nork wouldn't have any reason to fear reprisals if they attacked since they'd either have half the world's resources or only a comparable single enemy instead of the whole world, and Sork would gain double their resources either way rather than just some land they don't even care about or think is worth the trouble.

> the warlord is the ideal since it cannot harm humanity

Unless you made every nation a collection of tiny warlords and took away every advanced bit of technology as well that isn't actually true, since as it stands any warlord could potentially get nukes or biological weapons or chemical weapons, kill a large amount of the competition, gain huge power and be a world threat.

> The stability is the war

The double think necessary to type that phrase and honestly think it's good is astounding.

> History tells me one thing: Big government kills much more than small government

It also tells you that that's only if said big government is really only run through one guy. Like some kind of lord. Or say Degwin Zabi, then Gihren. Or Haman. Or Char. Basically every iteration of Zeon ever.

>>14986122
>Remember those paranoid ramblings I mentioned?
Not really, because those big government does indeed focus on killing their populace once their opposition is quelled.
>History says otherwise.
That's not what history says, the Cold War has never gone hot for that reason, because they realize foreign and domestic reasons will keep the populace loyal to their cause.
>Unless you made every nation a collection of tiny warlords and took away every advanced bit of technology as well that isn't actually true, since as it stands any warlord could potentially get nukes or biological weapons or chemical weapons, kill a large amount of the competition, gain huge power and be a world threat.
No, every warlords are supposed to have nukes and WMD and point at each other, so that they will never start shit at each other.
>The double think necessary to type that phrase and honestly think it's good is astounding.
There is no doublethink involved, a war is necessary to break the mold of peace. Peace at all times is stagnation and that is not stable.
>It also tells you that that's only if said big government is really only run through one guy. Like some kind of lord. Or say Degwin Zabi, then Gihren. Or Haman. Or Char. Basically every iteration of Zeon ever.
Explain the various atrocities done by democracies then.
Like it or not, big government kills, whether it's one guy or a group, it doesn't matter.

And no, Zeon is not big government. The EF is big government.

jokes on you fags they're just toy commercials

>>14982089
he became a cuck when committed a pointless suicide. he could had easily just surrender.

Holy shit, >>>/pol/ is that way you fucking spergs

>>14985911
>>14985941
>>14985947
>>14985966
>>14985967
Nope
you faggots are all wrong

The Jews created the Titans and later Jew Type with purple fabulous hair made the titans better

>thread gets tons of replies
>Oh cool
>Its some lolbertarian bitching about muh big government but somehow zeon isnt big government despite being a dictatorship (typical /pol/tard cognitive dissonance)
Get. The fuck. Out.

>>14981712
>decent human being
Decent human beings don't drop colonies and date Nina Purpleton.

>>14987487
Decent human beings fight against the corrupt EF and dump that bitch.

>>14986971
Zeon isn't a big government.

The EF is a literal faceless bureaucrat.

>>14981706
what

>>14981706

I realized when he was all about protecting the civilians and then unquestioningly participated in the Dublin Colony Drop.

>>14982089

Ral is the reason why people love Zeon, because despite all of the horrific bullshit the Zabi family, Haman, and Char inflicted on the world, Ramba Ral represents the countless good-hearted zeeks who just wanted independence.

>>14988451
The same for Anavel Gato & Shin Matsunaga.

Johnny Ridden fought just to defend fellow zeeks and he got too deep into it.

>>14984689

That's like saying Russia should pay taxes to the UN. The USA is a federal republic, that's why they have taxes, and they even fought a war over that.

Are there unironically people trying to say the Federation was less corrupt than Zeon?

>>14984774
>NWO
>The Emperor

The God-Emperor beat the NWO this election cycle, don't you watch the news?

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>>14984918
>the government is run by a lone bureaucrat, an inquisitor, a priest, a technopriest, Judge Dredd, a psychic who can kill you by looking at you, another presumed psychic, Cyborg Ezio, and a third psychic specializing in telepathy, guaranteed. Also a choice of three other elderly cyborgs in power armor who are probably priests, military, or priest-military.

I fucking love 40k.

Pick faggot
>A. Zeon- Spaceniggers, violent losers and ZJW or
>B. EF-corrupted and Jews or
>C. TITANS- literally /pol/
>D. Jupiter- literally JEWS

>>14988542
Nope, Emperor lost because electoral college and a bunch of rust belt idiots

>>14984629
>T. privileged child.

>>14989142
Wait, you trying to meme Hillary as the "Emperor"?

>>14987503
>zeon

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He was a dirty backstabber and ruthless commander but he was a pretty entertaining villain.
Le ding.