Quess ruins CCA

>>14922670
She didn't ruin anything, the movie was just fine with her and everyone else in it, you're just another idiot.

>>14922696
You trollin?

>>14922670

Char never tries to fuck her, she, along with Gyunei and Hathaway serve to underline the tragedy of Amuro and Char's past and of war as a whole, and to show that even with good intentions they're breeding the same conditions that created them in the first place.

>>14922710
But they didn't have to make everything she does and says annoying and unimportant.

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>>14922670
>tfw too intelligent to appreciate Char's Counterattack

CCA is shit in general.

I can't honestly believe /m/ would prefer CCA over Unicorn, because I don't.

>>14922818
>preferring one flavor of shit over another

>>14922821
Unicorn is pretty great actually.

>>14922825
Sure, if you're a fag.

She was a tool for the story.

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CCA is kino

>>14922833
I despite gays and I love Unicorn.

>>14922818
SOREDEMO!

>>14922670
>CCA is shit in general.
>I can't honestly believe /m/ would prefer CCA over Unicorn, because I don't.
Don't act like your opinion is fact, it makes you no better then shitposters that mindlessly make threads calling a popular show shit just for (yous), and you aren't giving an explanation as to why you prefer Unicorn, which is common for said shitposters to do, so I have come to the conclusion you're a shitposter, also I'm not Mexican so spic posting won't work.

>>14923052
Meant to reply to this.
>>14922818

>>14922670
She was hot.

>>14922670
Way to totally miss the point
https://youtu.be/xhtT72kFV3w

>>14922670
>wahhhhhhh a teenage anime girl isnt passive and adorable like I am used to from all the KAWAIIIIIIIIII anime i watch

Congrats, you just realized Quess is actually like real life teenage girls, annoying and a brat

>>14922670
>Quess literally ruins this movie.

Fucking RETARD.

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>>14922670

>>14922670
The funny thing is, for a long time before I saw the movie, I'd had heard how terrible she is and how she ruins the movie, but I didn't find her to be that bad, annoying as shit though. Hathaway was far worse, he killed Chan.

>>14923076

That's a fairly superficial reading of her character for a guy who professes to love CCA and have watched it more than any other Gundam entry. It makes no mention of how her, Hathaway and Gyunei are clearly meant to be a retake on Lalah, Amuro and Char. And how the way they interact with each other shows how Char and Amuro have changed as they aged, as well as how they're perpetuating the same issues that created Char and Amuro in the first place.

>>14923120

I'm always amused by how people complain about how unrealistic this is despite the fact it's almost certainly researched and actually physically possible, even if not advisable.

>>14923135

I'm not saying you (>>14923120) are saying it's not possible by the way, just a general observation.

>>14923127
This, Hathaway is by far the worst character in CCA
>"You killed her, just because she was one of the most dangerous threats the enemy had and you did it while trying to save me"
>"But I loved her and even though she clearly had no romantic interest in me, I thought she did because I'm a delusional retard "
>"You should die"
>He kills Chan
Fucking retard, I hate him so much, I refuse to read Hathaway's Flash, because I don't think I could handle a series with him as a main character. I find comfort in the fact he gets executed though

>>14923148

> she clearly had no romantic interest in me

People should watch the movie again if they think this. They clearly flirt with each other a coup of times, and Quess literally calls his hotel, gets Bright and asks him to get Hathaway to call her while she's sitting in bed like teen romance movie. I'm pretty sure she dies saving Hathaway's life in the film too.

>>14923148
He really is a shit. Bright needed to slap him a lot more.

>>14923160
She pretty much ditched him for Amuro, and then once she realised he cared for Chan more, she jumped ship over to Char.
Hathaway went out in a Jegan to try and convince Quess, Chan showed up, Quess threw a bitch fit because Chan apparently stole Amuro from her, Quess tried to kill Chan, but Chan killed her and then Hathaway got mad because "fucking adults always ruin shit" then killed Chan. Hathaway a 250% shit.

>>14923250

She continued flirting with him even while trying to charm Amuro, because her connection to Amuro was a conscious thing she was deliberately doing since she had a puppy crush on him (and then Char) since she was looking for a father figure, while her flirtations with Hathaway were more unconscious and human, not reliant on newtype feelings or a missing part of her life. And yes, I just checked and when Chan fires on her she tells Hathaway to get away since he'll be hit if he doesn't, and then pushes him away. She knew she was going to get hit and saved him. Even when they're arguing before she does, she talks about how she hates children like Hathaway, but in a really distraught voice that makes it obvious she's feeling some cognitive dissonance and is just venting her frustration over having feelings for him as well as Amuro and Char.

>>14923135
>her, Hathaway and Gyunei are clearly meant to be a retake on Lalah, Amuro and Char
That is a rather superficial way of reading their characters. A parallel exists most certainly but it is not there so we can draw a conclusion about Char, Lalah and Amuro and their relationship based on their similarity with Gynei, Quess and Hathaway and their relationship since they are in fact quite different and if their interactions follow a similar mold it's a statement about the general patterns of human beings as a whole.
For example a person in another thread would say
>Hathaway wants to hang out with Quess because he wants to learn from her how to be a better Newtype which shows that Char hoped that Lalah would help him become a Newtype.
Not only is the statement wrong, completely missing the point and offensive to the characters involved by assuming very superficial motives for their actions but it also invokes a similarity between the characters that simply doesn't exist.
Wouldn't it be more correct to say
>At any time, in any place a healthy young man, regardless of his situation or natural disposition will take an interest in a beautiful young woman. This is simply how young men work.
Now, doesn't that ring more true? Doesn't it sound like something more worth saying? It's about understanding what makes people tick.
Saying something like "such and such behaviour is good","such and such behaviour is good","this is right","that is wrong",for example "War is bad.You shouldn't do war" - it's pointless and it's a basic miscomprehension of human nature - that there is right and wrong and that people can choose between them.
Is't it more important to understand why things are the way they are like "In such and such situations people tend to do such and such things. It is because they are following their natural instincts and they want to survive." There are no shoulds or shouldn'ts. It's a simple statement of the way things are and an appeal for understanding.

>>14923391

> Not only is the statement wrong

Well, it is - but only because you said Hathaway instead of Gyunei. Which, given the later comparison with Char, is, I'm assuming you actually meant Gyunei. Who flat out says he wants to learn to be a better newtype from Quess, while Char later thinks about how he wanted Lalah to teach him to be a real newtype.

> Now, doesn't that ring more true?

It rings true, but it's also only a singular layer of the relationships involved, and denying that any other layer could exist or acting like it's insulting to the characters somehow is, to me, kind of silly.

>>14923408
> I'm assuming you actually meant Gyunei
Indeed

>Char later thinks about how he wanted Lalah to teach him to be a real newtype
I don't remember such thing happening.

>denying that any other layer could exist
I am not denying this at all. Quite the opposite - what I find offensive is that some viewers would reduce the complex relationships between characters to these sort of simplistic superficial rationalizations.

>>14923452

Char thinks about it during the scene in >>14922840, after he flashes to her death. And I'm not and never have said that's the only (or even most important) component of their characters - only that it clearly exists and that I found his omission odlf that aspect puzzling given how he was talking about her reason for being on the story and saying how he'd seen it multiple times.

>>14922670
>Why was she even put in this movie?
To fix the lickable pussy deficit

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>>14922818
I prefer a lot of things over Unicorn, hell, I would dare say I prefer Greco over Unicorn.

>>14923485
That's fulfilled by Nanai and Chan, though.

>>14923532
Ohhh Nanai, she was great.

>>14923462
Nanai
>Amuro Ray is a man who believes that kindness is the weapon of a Newtype. A woman would have been able to forgive this way of thinking but not you.
Char
>Durng the OYW Lalah find the kindness she was looking for in Amuro, an enemy soldier. So this is the resonance between Newtypes?
>"Lalah, don't consort with the enemy."
>If only Artesia wasn't there.
>Lalah, I wanted you to guide me.
>...just because you could read people's souls.

Where do you see any suggestion of such a thing?

>>14923558

> Lalah I wanted you to guide me
> Where's there a suggestion Char wanted Lalah to help Jim become a real newtype

Can you not read your own words?

>>14923733
What part of the provided quote implies anything of the sort?

>>14923737

> I wanted you to guide me

What do you think that means out of interest? That he needed her to learn to play the ukulele?

>>14923746
It is the same thing he said when she died.
"Please, guide me."
Do you think he was thinking that?
"Lol, how am I going to become an awesome Newtype now?"
Don't you think he felt lost and confused?
Why do you think that a statement of clearly emotional import needs to have some sort of a trivial explanation. How insipid can you be?
Do you have no respect for other people's feelings? Is grief or the longing to be with someone hard for you to understand?

>>14923790

No, but then I'd ask you the exact same list of questions, or near enough, since you apparently think that guide means profession of loss and nothing more. Which, in a discussion of superficial readings seems pretty superficial and taking only the most direct surface meaning possible. Looking for other meanings in a work of fiction is in no way a failure of empathy or to understand mourning. Can you just skip the not to subtle disdain and just call me an autist for not seeing exactly what you see? You seem on the verge of it anyway, so we might as well just get it over with.

>>14923807
Autist.

>>14923807
OK.What list of questions. Go on and ask me. What is this deeper meaning that you see. Why would he want to become a Newtype?And we suppose he does how exactly do you think that this sort of thing defines their relationship that it would be of such importance?

>>14923845

Why do you he think he felt lost and confused without her, even a decade and a half later? Why do you think a statement of emotional import can't have a deeper meaning? How insipid can you be? Do you have no respect for other people's feelings that you think they can only have one possible source or meaning? Is grief or the longing to be with someone the only thing you can understand?

Also, yes, why would the son of the man who originated newtype theory want to become a newtype? Or want to be guided by one?

And yea actually, I do think the fact he chooses to mourn her by thinking about what she could have done for or offer him if she'd live is pretty indicative of his relationship with her. That he perhaps did love her more than anyone else, but he still mourned not her as a person, but her guidance because he loved her for what she could do for him, not for who she was.

>>14923883
1.Because he was lonely and he never really learned how to trust anyone.
2.I think emotional import is as deep as deep can go.
3. As much as the next person.
4. Some feeling are objectively more important than others.
5. As much as I can relate to the need for validation the loss of love and security seems slightly more basic. Relegation of the latter to the former just feels kind of diminishing.
6. Fair enough but .as I already implied. from my observations Char doesn't seem to have validation issues.
7. I think he would rather be guided by an accommodating and kind of sexy young woman.

> he chooses to mourn her by thinking about what she could have done for him
That is not how grief works.
>but he still mourned not her as a person, but her guidance because he loved her for what she could do for him, not for who she was
That is not how love works.

>>14923987

> that's not how grief works
> that's not how love works

For you. You're imposing your ideas (popular standards though they are) of what those things are on to a character who is fundamentally broken by his childhood and who may not experience them in the same way as other people. And who, when expressing those things chooses to do so in a pointedly different manner by mourning what someone could have been to him in particular and not who they were. And yes, I do believe the language he uses has meaning, because the words we choose define our thoughts.

>>14924000
No, I'm pretty sure I'm following the standard scientific definitions. You are free to form as many mental constructs as you like if you feel the need to explain to yourself your instinctual behavior but there is such a thing as an objective truth.
On neurological levels all people are the same and they exhibit the same behavior patterns that are only more strongly pronounced in people with pathological problems.
Love is in essence the need for physical security, the intrinsic trust that the object of your affection will be unconditionally physically available to you and in it most basic form it manifests in seeking physical proximity to this object of affection. The loss of such an object will lead to mourning, which is the desire to regain physical proximity to the object of your affection and to anxiety, which is a fear of the unknown, caused by the loss of the trusted object and to anger, which is a futile attempt to restore physical proximity to this object.
I like Tomino's work because he portrays such patterns of behaviour with a visceral realism. I don't know exactly how he does it, I don't know much about direction but he must be really good at it, because when Char says "I wanted you to guide me" I know it is because he wants to hold her. I don't have to care for the meaning of the words or for the context. It's enough to know that at the core people are guided by this sort of simple, basic emotions.
Of course, different people can come up with different explanations for these emotions based on their own personality, intelligence or past and present experiences. This sort of considerations are interesting enough on their own but they are not as essential and they can't make something what it isn't.

>>14922670
After finishing Space Runaway Ideon, I noticed a trend and decided to do some research. In many of Tomino's early series he has 2 primary love interests. One that fulfills the childhood best friend archetype, and one with whom he meets later, and yet feels an instant connection with. Lalah, Kitty Kitten of Ideon, Four from Zeta Gundam. These characters would die in their series, and then the Main character would be stuck with what's left, generally the childhood best friend but Amuro didn't even get that. There is some compelling, if circumstantial, evidence that this character type is based on Maria Kawamura, MAmoru Nagano's wife. I won't go into the specifics, the information is all easily attainable, other than to point out that she was in many of these series and knew Tomino going back to an interview she did with him about 0079 shortly after it finished airing. So, with all that boring preamble done, Quess is the rejection of that character type, and in real life represented Tomino coming to terms with the fact that Maria was married to Nagano and that was that.

>>14924125
It's a common element in his coming of age stories but CCA is not that.
Well, maybe it is for Hathaway. And from this point of view it is just another repetition of the same theme.
A rejection would be if the protagonist ended up with that girl for once. Still I don't think that the protagonist gets "stuck" with the other girl. More like he understands something he didn't understand before. I see the whole thing as a sort of symbol for transition from childhood to manhood. I don't think it's a negative thing. I still don't understand why the girl has to always die though.

>>14922670
Quess is the worst character in all Gundam except maybe Hathaway in the same movie. Or Katz. But I still love CCA. Great movie with a few shitty elements

>>14923746
Maybe you're forgetting hes the son of Zeon
I think Char felt he couldn't lead Spacenoids properly without a Super Newtype of some sort at his side. Rather than simoly using Quess as a tool although that was certainly part of it iy wasnt the whole deal going on there

People that hate Quess are fucking plebs
You aren't supposed to like all characters. Maybe, Quess being unlikable was Tominos point. Shes a Newtype whos personality doesnt accept Understanding or other peoples ideas, so for her, being a Newtype is a total Curse. She only wanted a father figure that gave a shit about her
Read a fucking book once in awhile jesus Christ

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>>14924125
>There is some compelling, if circumstantial, evidence that this character type is based on Maria Kawamura, MAmoru Nagano's wife. I won't go into the specifics, the information is all easily attainable, other than to point out that she was in many of these series and knew Tomino going back to an interview she did with him about 0079 shortly after it finished airing. So, with all that boring preamble done, Quess is the rejection of that character type, and in real life represented Tomino coming to terms with the fact that Maria was married to Nagano and that was tha

You massive fucking idiot, stop falling for these ancient bullshit Nagano rumors that were written by retards on MAL and TV tropes.

Tomino is the REASON Nagano and Maria Kawamura got married. He was even Nagano's best man at his wedding. Tomino himself had been married and had a daughter before he even met either of them.

>>14924554
>MAL

Mechatalk, I mean.

People like Sean O'Mara and VF5SS can go fuck themselves for spreading this shit.

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Is there a post-0079 female UC Gundam character who DOESN'T ruin (or at least lessen the quality of) her respective show or movie?

Nobody comes to mind besides some joke-ass women from ZZ.

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>>14924574
Emma Sheen

CCA was garbage.

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>>14924574
Our goddess Haman

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>>14922670
>she says or does something annoying and useless

This is an anime show. The words you are looking for are "cute and funny."

Western gaijin lack the Japanese sensibilities to understand this.

>>14924103

There is no standard definition for love or mourning. There never has been. And no, there is no such thing as an objective truth, especially in something as subjective as love. Saying that Tomino's characters are defined by their emotional physical attractions and there either is nothing else or it is of secondary importance is a really superficial way to describe his characters.

>>14922670
No Quess = No Hathaway doing stupid stuff = No death Chen = No glowing magic T = No Axis shock

>>14924720
Except Quess isn't funny. She's typical spoiled teen shit and not in a cute way.

That said I'd still smash.

>>14924574
Cecily wasn't that bad in F91, I thought.

>>14924574
Shrike team, Shakti, Uso's mom.

>>14924786

Lily, Mouar, Nanai, Marbet.

>>14924795
Renda.

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>>14924567
>VF5SS

Hey asshole, don't drag me into this. It's not my fault that Nagano acts like a weirdo and gets treated like one- he chose it. Maybe if he stopped spazzing out over everything happening to his precious designs and started working with others people would actually start respecting him. As it is now he's a joke and a meme.

And you damn well know it.

>>14924798
>I'm PROUD of spreading lies and shitposting

Aren't you a special boy.

>>14924840
Just because I don't suck Nagano's cock doesn't mean I'm "spreading lies". Open your eyes and stop being such a fanboy.

>>14924751
I'm sorry, dude. I'll go tell biology to go fuck itself.
Why try to actually understand how people work when we can arbitrarily judge them and say "It's subjective".

>>14924798
Hey, asshole, let me tell you something- it IS your fault, or at least partially for spreading this bullshit. I do have grievances with Nagano, as I do with any other named creator, but this story about him and his wife and Tomino has been bullshit and disproven from day one, and it's dumbasses like you that perpetuate these types of rumors, when they really should have just died in the 90s back when dial-up was still a thing.

You don't know fucking anything about Nagano other than what your buttbuddies at CDX or Macross World or Mecha Talk or whatever other forum that jaded old Otaku fucks from the 80s who thrive on inaccurate HK subtitles and even more inaccurate rumors have told you. Stop pretending that you have any actual bit of knowledge about mecha outside of Macross.

>Maybe if he stopped spazzing out over everything happening to his precious designs and started working with others people would actually start respecting him.

SRW lumped together his FSS and L-Gaim designs without his permission, and ironically you're posting a picture of him working with Ikuhara for Schell Bullet. And he's already one of the most respected mecha designers out there, whether you like it or not. But keep living with your fantasies if it makes you feel more important.

>>14925057
>Open your eyes and stop being such a fanboy.

Really funny coming from the #1 Kawamori apologist. You must have loved Delta.

>>14925075

Love is not a scientific subject and you will not find a single scientific consensus on what love is or what causes it. It's not even bound by biology in some cases, since people love not just animals but in some cases inanimate objects. Not desire and sexualize them, but genuinely love them. At least as far as they're prepared to say and act and wish others to believe, which is essentially the same thing.

You absolutely can try and understand people, but no, I don't think you can pin all people under one simple and all inclusive definition of love or mourning, and there certainly isn't any standard definition of either, scientific or otherwise right now.

So despite your sarcasm, you are in fact correct as far as I'm concerned, because you can tell biology to go fuck itself and look at how people act as subjective. In fact, that's almost the dictionary definition of the word. And just looking at a character's actions as primarily driven by attraction does seem superficial to me.

>>14924798
>>14925057

Wow, namefags really are the worst.

>>14925112
First of all, I really, really like Nagano's designs (or at least his older ones), so if you think I have some kind of vendetta against him you can kindly fuck off.

Second, I would take Kawamori as a person and creator any day over Nagano. Say what you will about how "bad" his work on Macross or as a director in general is, but at the end of the day he has strong connections with tons of people in the anime industry, makes a good amount of works on a consistent basis, gives young staff members a chance to shine and work on big gigs, even Gaijins like Thomas Romaine. He also understands the importance of merchandising, something Nagano doesn't because he wants us to buy expensive overpriced and out of print and impossible to build garage kit resin models. That's why I respect Kawamori. He's earned it. Nagano? Not so much.

>>14925137
I've always been anonymous here and am only doing this because some asshole decided to call me out.

>>14925166
>>14925112
Another thing, don't tell me what I know and don't know about mecha.

>>14922670
Quess was completely necessary as annoying as she was

>>14922670
To be a replacement for lah lah

>>14923148
>she was one of the most dangerous threats the enemy had

Doesn't Amuro deal with her by basically just going, "don't got time for this," and flying past?

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>>14923148
>I refuse to read Hathaway's Flash, because I don't think I could handle a series with him as a main character.

Well anon, then I have good news for you about how Hathaway's Flash ends.

>>14925166
>so if you think I have some kind of vendetta against him you can kindly fuck off.
>That's why I respect Kawamori. He's earned it. Nagano? Not so much.

Way to contradict yourself, faggot.

I also love how you moved goalposts so you can avoid taking responsibility for being one of the idiots who threw around that Nagano cuck meme. At the end of the day, you're a liar, a shitposter, and one of the reasons this board has gone to hell.

Also, Kawamori is a terrible director who hinders the very talent that work with him. Thomas Romaine got the middle finger from Kawamori during Basquash, and let's not even get into EVOL. And Delta being hot garbage was mostly his fault.

>>14925170
You -don't- know anything about mecha you stupid sack of shit. Stop pretending you do, just because the neckbeards at CDX go to you for information all the time because they care more about the toys than the show it comes from.

>>14923148
chan only killed quess cause she took out that damaged jegan and it misfired and it was head for Hathaway too, the guy she was trying to save but quess took the hit to save him meaning quess had at least platonic feelings for him. Chan also killed astoniage while launching that shit. as the evolve short show, no chan, nobody dies, both hathaway and quess are both happy together but no Chan had to be brash even though she is a grown ass woman.
EVERYTHING IS CHAN'S FAULT!!!

>>14922670
She's supposed to be waifubait for the younger audience. Meanwhile the older crowd is supposed to waifu Chan or Nanai (or even Mirai for the OG fans).

>>14924798
>>14925166
I'm tempted to just go and delete every single article on Wikipedia and TVTropes on Nagano and FSS, just so we can avoid having more cancerous namefags like this.

>>14922670
>Quess literally ruins this movie.

No cramming all the shit that goes on in that movie in the span of two hours is what ruined it.

>>14924580
Bro she was leading on a guy so hard he straight up blew sacrificed himself and his entire crew to impress her.

>>14924574
Marbeto-san!