Suisei no Gargantia

a cancelled second season and a cancelled movie, I guess

usual japanese shittaste

That they haven't made starting a thread with that sentence an automatic ban yet

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>>14917969
They didn't make the bad guy look like Marlon Brando.

"The aliens are actually humans!" plot point was lame and predictable, and the cult fleet thing was kinda dumb too. I found the first half of the series where Ledo is adjusting to life on the fleet a lot more interesting.

>>14917969
Not enough tits. The girls needed to be in their dancing uniform every episode.

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>>14917969
Suisei no Gargantia Design "show him what little girls are made of, gun powder and lead" |

>>14917969
He should have kept his mind of steel.

>>14917969
The last third.

>>14917976
>cancelled
I just found out and it hurts.

>>14918025
> "The aliens are actually humans!" plot point was lame and predictable

I want this meme to die. Anyone who was actually watching Gargantia live on /m/ would know that no one 'called it' until they saw the next episode preview for the episode where Ledo explored the sunken lab.

Saying that plot point was predictable is just hindsight being 20/20, because everyone knows that's the twist now. Its a non-complaint and revisionist history.

>>14918310
I didn't watch the show until recently, and I knew nothing about it except that Bellows and Ridget are hot, which was why I watched it.

It stopped being good after episode 1

It was somewhat lacking in substance for a lot of the show.

>>14918395
>after episode 1

oh, come on. Episode 2 and 3 were good too. The fall began immediately after.

>>14917969
They didn't make Chamber the main character.

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>>14919382

Not enough Ridget, that's what.

>>14918025
>aliens are actually humans

But they were not.
Only their distant ancestors were.
They were post-human aliens.

>>14918310

I thought people were aware it was pretty likely given that Urobutchi was one of the principal creators and "it was humans all along" is basically his signature? In the same way when you're watching a Shyamalan film you expect some kind of twist near the end that tries to reframe the body of the film.

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>>14919382

>>14917969
Nothing.

This show has God-tier doujins.

>>14917969
Bellows wasn't the main heroine.

>>14921409
She has a side manga for that though.

>>14917969
Ledo and Ami got married, and got themselves a ship at the end.
Chamber upgraded itself and hijacked Ignite's body for the final battle.

>>14918109
Gargantia, the show where the art styles of the males and females don't match in the slightest, and as a result the genders look like they should be in different shows apart from Ledo.

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>>14917969
not enough porn

>>14921529
That's what happens when you hire a porn artist to do character designs.

>>14918310
People expected some kind of twist because it's an Urobuchi show. The actual nature of the twist was impossible to predict unless you go meta, but that's arguably even worse - it feels like it comes from nowhere.

But the worst thing about the twist is that in the end it doesn't even matter. Hideuze being transhumans doesn't change anything and isn't even acknowledged because the final arc is about something completely different.

The final arc also runs twice as long as it should've had. The very final ep is pretty hype at least.

>>14918183
I really enjoyed the show but the cancellation doesn't bother me. It was a fish out of water story, and that plot is over. I honestly don't see where the show could have gone with a second series.

>>14921312
So, the story of the sequel is....?

>>14922520
Found out Reema is Russel's sister
Found out the origin of Augmented Bodies
Found out how far Lido has jumped in the worm hole after the first episode of the TV series, and GAH is no more
Involved in the messy war between the 2 countries
and >>14921458

>>14921458
>Chamber upgraded itself
>>14922606

Woh woh woh... Chamber is alive?

>>14917969

The only genuinely likeable character was the robot's on-board AI. MC was dull as dirt, the antagonists only slightly less so, and the sea hippies were outright fucking insufferable.

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>>14922606
>GAH is no more

Oh no, we lost.

>>14921312
Left is a semen demon of the highest class.

No second season? What a bummer

Also everyone into anime has a fucking comical backlash to twists. Everyone who sees the shows while the twists unfold enjoy them and then everyone who didn't see it complains afterwards about how "obvious" it was.

>>14925181
ova

>>14924827
>had the smallest breast size
>was the sluttiest of the five

>>14925181
That makes no sense

>>14917969
>We can't kill people just because they try to murder us and take all of our stuff. If we do that might provoke them into trying to murder us.

>>14925255
We will never be rid of complete retards like you, will we. There was nothing lethal about it until Ledo killed a bunch of people. He escalated the situation far past what it should have been. Fuck off, you colossal moron.

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>>14920206

>>14925226
>>14924827
The best~

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>>14921685
>But the worst thing about the twist is that in the end it doesn't even matter. Hideuze being transhumans doesn't change anything and isn't even acknowledged

Except it was acknowledged. But like you said, it didn't change anything, for the reason Chamber stated. What they were fighting was no longer human and thus their origin was irrelevant. They willingly gave up their humanity, they are the enemy.

>>14925730
One of my favorite moments in mecha

>>14925226
Gotta overcompensate for that.

>>14925708
I love that in the bonus manga, she drunk herself silly and wore that dancer outfit, all by complete accident.
http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2013/08/23/an-early-look-at-dancing-ridget-and-bellows-from-gargantia-bonus-manga

>>14925255

You have to keep in mind the context and how escalation works. He didn't just kill those pirates, he completely vaporized them and destroyed their ships in an instant, without even warning.

That is tipping the scales and throwing the balance of everything out of power. Especially since everyone else sees Gargantia as having the equivalent of a nuke.

>>14925730
>>14925741
You still don't get that the AI's pointing out that the AIs need the conflict because peace would mean that they could not live up to their directive, do you?

In the end, with more data taken from Ledo, other observatons, and Striker, Chambers came to a different conclusion either way.

But such as it stands, both the Alliance and the Hideazu are grossly maladjusted and the AIs back up the maladjustion on the Alliance's part the same way biomods do it for the Hideazu.

>>14925788
>You still don't get that the AI's pointing out that the AIs need the conflict because peace would mean that they could not live up to their directive, do you?

Except the Alliance is fighting a defensive war at this point, it isn't the same as when it was all on earth.

If anything Chamber is pointing out the problem with UNDERSTANDING, in that in doing so it can show how the two side have goals that make them unable to co-exist.

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>>14925788
>the AIs need the conflict because peace would mean that they could not live up to their directive
Chamber was doing just fine on earth with the absence of war. Their objective isn't specifically to do war, it's to do what it deems as best for their designated pilot. Being away from the battlefield never changed that for Chamber, it never deviated from its programming even to the very end. Striker was the one who went rogue and thus Chamber had to put it down because Striker's existence was a danger to Ledo.

>>14925805
GAH, as revealed in the novel, was fighting the war to covered their ass for stealing technologies from the Hideazu during the return of Ice Age on Earth. New "recruits" has been fed with false information about the Hideazu for hundreds of years.

>>14925788
No, Chamber was 100% correct. Humans and Hideauze can never coexist. In nature, when two species are similar in niche but biologically different from each other, they will compete and one will be wiped out eventually.

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shes so perfect

>>14925809
>Chamber was doing just fine on earth with the absence of war.
Chambers realized that killing the Hideazu wasn't required for him to fulfill his directive after he had additional data, yes. At the point he gave that little speech though, he was still missing that data plus Ledo was still trying to commit a long, drawn-out suicide fighting the Hideazu, which isn't much different from what he would've done were he still with the alliance.

>If anything Chamber is pointing out the problem with UNDERSTANDING, in that in doing so it can show how the two side have goals that make them unable to co-exist.

Yes, that's why Amuro shot Laha. Welcome to 40 years ago.

>In nature, when two species are similar in niche but biologically different from each other, they will compete and one will be wiped out eventually.

Look, how about you try taking a nice breath of outer space vacuum combined with a good dose of hard radiation? Or just try breathing in a lot of water? The Hideazu and humanity inhabit radically different ecosystems with minimal overlap. That they are in conflict at all is only due to the fact that they arrived in a state of war and never, ever stopped even for a breather for hundreds of years, which forced them into their parasitic relationships, in which they together rapidly consume everything in whichever sector of space they end up in.

>>14923092
Well according to the novel some of the smarter guys figured out they have been brainwashed by the old stories by the GAH, and fled after seeing they have no chance to win. Since the population isn't growing at all GAH eventually destroyed itself at the end.

>>14925921

Look, purely from a moral position, ignoring the practicality or the history, I don't see what's wrong in fighting the war with the Hideauze. To me, Chamber's argument makes perfect sense and that a person who gives their humanity is some of an aberration to nature.

>>14917969
Killing off chamber!

>>14925730
I meant it wasn't acknowledged as soon as the episode, and its arc, have ended. The moment Kugel's fleet appeared all of that stopped mattering because the story was suddenly Heart of Darkness Lite instead.

Also I don't know why people can agree with Chamber where it's proven by that point that humans and hideuze can live peacefully together. That's what they do on Earth. It's the space people that keep fighting and killing each other, on both sides.

Chamber a bro still.

>>14926475

The problem is that the Earth survival strategy of co-existence is VERY limited.

If the humans of Earth ever advance to a more technologically powerful civilization, they risk triggering the squids. Indeed, this might explain why their technology has been stagnant for so long. The fleets that advance beyond a certain point get wiped out.


If the humans of Earth ever try to reverse the water-world situation of the planet so they can live on land again? They will DEFINATELY trigger the squids.

If the GAH finds Earth first, the war comes to them and their way of life will be destroyed. Striker nearly did this single handedly.

If the space squids find Earth first, all of the humans die. End of story.

And even ignoring other sources of failure, the fact that the humans rely on ships to live, ships that they have a VERY limited ability to replace, means that they are holding on to survival by a thread.

The Earth civilization is successful to a point, and the moment anything pushes them out of their current comfort zone they are in big trouble.

>>14926475
>Also I don't know why people can agree with Chamber where it's proven by that point that humans and hideuze can live peacefully together. That's what they do on Earth

Except they don't. There's a reason humans don't go near their lairs, they'll be killed because the whale-squids are fiercely territorial.

To say nothing of the ones in space who are far more aggressive.

>>14926475
>Also I don't know why people can agree with Chamber where it's proven by that point that humans and hideuze can live peacefully together. That's what they do on Earth. It's the space people that keep fighting and killing each other, on both sides.
Not really, though. They're able to both exist on the same planet by not interacting with each other. The monsters can and do attack people who venture too near to them and, at least as far as the show demonstrates, the humans have no means of communicating or otherwise resolving conflicts with them.

The coexist in the sense that we coexist with bears. We're not wiping each other out, but bears are still dangerous.

>>14926487
Thankfully the ones on earth seem to be far less advanced than the space Hideauze, considering Chamber alone (who is a grunt) could wipe out an entire nest.

>>14926491

Sure, because they haven't been hardened by millenia of war and have gotten soft. But the humans on Earth can't rely on having a chamber unit to save them. Left to their own defense, they would get murdered by the squids in any conflict.

>>14926487
>If the humans of Earth ever advance to a more technologically powerful civilization, they risk triggering the squids. Indeed, this might explain why their technology has been stagnant for so long. The fleets that advance beyond a certain point get wiped out.
Plus they have the whole "don't go near their territory, the whale-squids are sacred"

Generally forbidden zones were made that way because they're dangerous.

>>14926487
>>14926488
>>14926490
Hideuze on Earth are descendants of those who didn't want to be involved in the space conflict. They reverted into an animal-like state, fiercely territorial but animal still.

Would it make sense to wipe out all bears or tigers IRL because they are territorial and kill humans? Or if RL had genocidal space bears, would it make sense to also kill all normal Earth bears because they're the same species?

>>14926554
By official material KujiraIka (Whale Squid) on earth are the remaining "Evolvers" who didn't make it out on time when "Continental Union" blew up the worm hole engines during their "escape" to space.
In fact Continental Union not only block the Evolver's way to space, but also the rest of the population on earth who wasn't evolved in their business. Those people and Evolver made it through the 5th Ice Age, and have their decedents repopulate the planet, while Continental Union became GAH and claim to be god in space.

>>14926584
*involved in their business

>>14926554
>Would it make sense to wipe out all bears or tigers IRL because they are territorial and kill humans?

It kind of does, actually, and it's what we used to do to species that posed problems for us. They don't really do anything for us, they often eat our food, they can interfere with work that we need to be doing, and, obviously, they can be dangerous.

We don't exterminate tigers and bears now because we feel bad about it, but we used to kill the fuck out of wolves and we had no qualms about eradicating smallpox. We gain nothing from letting them live other than other than feeling good about letting them live, and we can afford to let them live for that purpose because we're so insulated from the negative impacts that they had on our ancestors.

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>>14926554
>Would it make sense to wipe out all bears or tigers IRL because they are territorial and kill humans?

You realize that's literally what we used to do with wolves, right? They preyed upon our weak and our livestock, so at the first sign there was a wolf (which meant there was more out there) people would hunt down the pack's location and wipe them out.

Not doing the novels is for people's own good, for it comes back to people fucking up stuff again without learning from the past.

In the novel it goes in deeper on the land people at war with the sea people, and goes back to the monarchy system. People doesn't have a title, or lives on the sea are shit.
People lives in Augustonia excavates Yumbroid, and use them in duel to earn their titles in high places. Once they have a title they will receive an AI supported Yumbroid (prototype machine calibers) their partner unit.
There are other land countries uses their Yumbroid to hunt Hideuze on Earth.
The origin of AI-assisted Yumbroid is still a mystery, but you can actually guess who built them for what purpose in the first place from the information below.

Interesting points being mentioned in the books.
People on Earth excavates Yumbroids and the MC prototypes, but they don't have the technology to build one by themselves. They can only utilize them in their works.
GAH can mass produce machine calibers for their needs in battle, but is unable to modify nor making it any better. Hideuze in space starts to adapt to the weapons over the years, and leads to the failure of GAH.
Li-v, a young Earth Hideuze also friend of Russel (the MC of the novel), shows extraordinary control technique while piloting the AI-assisted Yumbroid to save Russel's girlfriend Skaya.
The AI on the robots is said to fully assist the "pilot" to do many things which they are unable to do.

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>>14926894
>the land people

Wait hold up, there's land?

>>14927024
Reema in the OVA, sister of Russel from the novel, is from land country Liberistan.

>>14927033
Is the location on a map tattooed on her back?

>>14926673
>>14926692
>used to
There are still bounties placed on wolves in most countries, including the US. Any time their population is seen as getting too large, the government says tells hunters to go nuts and pays them for every body.

The novel sounds retarded.

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>>14926894
>Li-v, a young Earth Hideuze also friend of Russel (the MC of the novel), shows extraordinary control technique while piloting the AI-assisted Yumbroid to save Russel's girlfriend Skaya.
>Li-v, a young Earth Hideuze, shows extraordinary control technique while piloting the AI-assisted Yumbroid.
> a Hideuze piloting the AI-assisted Yumbroid.
> Hideuze using technology
> a proto-MC tolerating a Hideuze pilot

I don't use heresy memes lightly, but god DAMN thats some heretical shit.

>>14927536
It's Japan. Gotta pomote tolerance and peace and all that shit. 平和ボケ

>>14927212
Given that, it not being season 2 instead is a mixed blessing.

>>14927560

I dunno. Maybe it all would have made more sense in context?

That, or they would have given the story a few more passes before turning it into a show. The novel approach was clearly 'plan B', I could see them having half-assed it.

>>14927641
While I dislike the Hideauze part, the other shit sounds awesome. Duels for the AI ones and Hideauze hunts.

>>14927536
mind you that these are not the GAH mc, and it gives new meaning for the AI as a tool of communication between hideuze with a "human mind" and normal people

To add salt to the situation
In the novel GAH didn't find any suitable planets to relocate the people, so they ended up building space colonies. After years of war many of them lost their hope and fed. The biggest one Avalon, somehow retains the record of a mysterious "The Planet of White" (originally "The Planet of Blue". It was purposely changed by people in high places many years ago to hide the secret of Earth and the war between Continental Union and the Evolvers. They think it may be their way out to the situation.
Avalon returns to earth (which they don't know it is Earth because of their fucked up records), sends its drop ships and tries to take over the planet.

>>14928481
delicious barefeet.

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>>14928584
yeah

Chamber, eternal bro.

>Waterworld: the Anime

Why do you THINK it failed?

>>14929281

Waterworld failed because of how much it cost to make though, not because of its content.

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>female characters
awesome designs

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>>14927036

>>14917969
Too much SOL and "I don't know how to interact with people" bullshit and too few zenmetsu

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New humanity didn't fuck?

I mean, I understand there is natality control and such so only the strongest can breed but they didn't have sex with cute albino girls?

Then what the fuck were they fighting for?

>>14931184
delicious tummy.

>>14930574
Flat chest was superior. Banana tits are disgusting.

>>14931184
I think they did. It's just that MC didn't cause MCs of animes never have sex drives.

>>14931262
>>14931394
both disgusting desu

>>14931629
>spot the fag

>>14925255
But it's true. Even irl you should try to solve a situation like that without any bloodshed.

>>14930631
Again, is it tattooed on her back?

>>14931184

I always assumed that all birth was controlled to the point that they use genetic enhancement on them.

Because the show implies that Kugel looked just like Ledo when he was young, much like that kid from Ledo's past. It's not cloning, but it might as well be.

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>>14931184
I know this is far from perfect but I had to try

>>14932055
Status: MUH

>>14917969
Nothing happen : The animu

>>14931671
In real life the Navy shoots pirates.

>>14933735
That's real life
http://grapee.jp/en/54127

>>14933735

Pirates irl are generally really dangerous.

>>14933748
Impressive.

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>>14927996
>Avalon returns to earth (which they don't know it is Earth because of their fucked up records), sends its drop ships and tries to take over the planet.

But what about Hideazu?

>>14934681
Space Hideazu? They weapon has no effect on the squids anymore so there is no what about.

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>>14934699
>weapon has no effect on the squids anymore

They are doomed.

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>>14934748
Li-v the young earth Hideazu has a mission while staying with Russel and friends. It asked Ledo for help accomplishing it.
Won't say much about what it is about but you can probably guess from the situation.
Reminder that Earth Hideazu still has some human personality remaining, and Li-v is a special one.

>>14922005
Pretty much. It'd be getting into Psycho-Pass territory if they dragged it out any further.

>>14917969
Pretty much everything.

>>14935279
The very best

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Why do people want to live on planets?

>>14925770
You know what people don't do? Attack someone that has a nuke.

The gargantians were insane. Their complete lack of interest in legitimate fucking aliens with technology equivalent to magic that gave one pilot the capability to literally kill every single living thing on earth was impossible to understand.

That's ignoring their bizarre philosophy which made sure they would stay victims forever.

>>14937576
Curiosity can get you killed and they do not want to kill.

>>14937586
Curiosity also gains you tools that can help prevent death and create great advances.

>>14937576
>You know what people don't do? Attack someone that has a nuke.

9/11.

>>14937616
Oh hi Rudy. Tired of being attorney general already?

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>>14937576
>That's ignoring their bizarre philosophy which made sure they would stay victims forever.

You seemed to have forgotten that their polities were entirely based on free association and that the member flottiliias retained control over their own military resources. Trying to force them into putting those on the line to eradicate the pirates pre-emptively would just make them pack up and leave. They really were doing everything possible poltiically already.

Now Ledo's actions basically put the Gargantia-convoy at risk of falling appart right then and there. The one thing that held it together through the crisis was the old chief captain and the trust and goodwill he had amassed over his years of public service.

>>14937630
No, their bizarre philosophies come around when they scold ledo for destroying pirates actively harming their members. When they tell the alien superweapon NOT to get involved in a fight where it would effortlessly remove the pirate problem permanently at no cost to themselves.

Like I said, they're insane.

>>14937635
The Kugel Convoy was reformed around the robot removing the pirates while the Gargantia convoy actually fought to preserve its polity and way of life when they told Ledo to stay the fuck out of their business in that episode.

You're calling them insane, but they weren't the ones drowning their loved ones with their own hands.

>>14937630
This guy gets it.

>>14937635
This guy is an idiot.

>>14937598

They don't want to make great advances because bad things seem to happen to fleets that advance too much (aka the squids wake up and wipe them out)

>>14937635

Keep in mind that the fleet that went all in on using the robot, created a cult around it.

>>14937650
>actually fought to preserve its polity
Maybe offer the alien superweapon a fucking mercenary contract then?

>ROE for pirates is as follows: warn them, one warning shot, then zenmetsu if they don't back off
>Your wages are payed monthly, contract renewal happens at the same time and can be cancelled if either party no longer wants to continue the business relationship

Plus, they weren't keeping chamber out of that fight for any gargantia fuck yeah bullshit. They were keeping him out of the fight because they wanted to roll over and let the pirates have their way with the fleet.

>>14937650
>>14937663
Kugel went the way it did because the MC deliberately went out of its way to build a religious cult. It was by no means the inevitable conclusion to using a machine caliber against pirates.

>>14937652
Nice arguments, retard.

>you will never fuck bellows

>>14937635
>>14937576
>>14937671
>>14937666
You're judging an entirely different culture for not reacting by the same way yours does. Remember, the fleet is meant to be modern Japanese society, which is built upon (even more fitting for a boat) no making waves. To allow in something that radically changes the status quo endangers the way they see their existence.

>>14937666
>Maybe offer the alien superweapon a fucking mercenary contract then?

That was out of the question at that point already.
In the short run, it would also undermine their polity which is based on free association and freely given cooperation. Plus there's really no way for them to put a price on somebody being able to sink the convoy within minutes, they didn't have anything approaching those resources financially or militarly. Their only way to retain some semblance of their former polity would be to go fully Kugel and search for ancient weapons to upgrade all of their stock.

>>14937689
>free association and freely given cooperation
Maybe on a personal level, but the fleets were all built up on contracts they agreed to. And while Chamber is radically more powerful than any of their fighting forces, it's still fundamentally the same thing. So you pay it the same rates you do for your other combatants.

Gargantia only retained its polity because Ledo was a fundamentally nice person. If he was even a little bit less forgiving, he could've taken over easily. Kugel wasn't a function of what the fleet did, it was a function of what the alien did.

>>14917969
not enough butcher

>>14937701
>Gargantia only retained its polity because Ledo was a fundamentally nice person.

You're forgetting the more important fact that the current generation of the fleet are practically pacifists.

>>14937712
I'm not. My argument is that their pacifism is horrifying. They are basically sacrificing everyone in their fleet every single time a pirate shows up, and are not only alright with the situation, they actively fight against anything that would make their lot in life better.

In a way they're even worse than the space nazi GAH.

>>14937676
>nor Ridget
It's a sad life

>>14937721

The pirates have never killed anyone before, which is why they're seen as a nuisance more than anything. They hire defensive ships but they don't fight themselves because it's not in their nature. Remember, they're Japan, and in that sense the defensive ships are the US military.

Paying Chamber to protect them creates a very dangerous precedent that fucking Pinion of all people points out: If Ledo and Chamber become essentially mercenaries in the world, what's to stop the pirates from just paying him more and having him wipe out the Gargantia fleet? Nothing could stop him in that scenario.

The fleet never wipes out the pirates because they're afraid of retaliation from Rackage, the show points that out. That has been their policy for years because the pirates raiding their salvage ships once in a while is preferable to an all-out attack on the fleet itself.

>>14937672
It was an observational statement, dolt.

The argument is stupid because it ignores the point. It's not about the value of every single human life because let's face it, no one was sad the pirates were dead, they were just horrified at the level of destruction. It's a writing tool to teach Ledo the idea of restraint.

Maybe the argument should’ve been, “Look, Ledo, we get it, they’re the enemy but one of the ships, although armed, could have had families on it…” There you go, now you have your moral dilemma with outright annihilation of enemy forces. No, it’s not pretty, it’s not sweet, it’s not safe, but neither is war, neither is combat, neither is aggression. The show struck me as attempting to be safe while trying to challenge the issue of how to deal with enemy aggressors while trying to be the more morally ethically sound military force.

>>14937727
Nothing stops ledo and chamber from taking over in any scenario, should he want to. The force disparity is just too big.

Gargantia's response to that reality is to try and shuffle them off into manual labor like moving around cargo containers and trying to ignore him from that point on. With anyone but Ledo, that sort of dismissal would lead to a lot of disintegrated captains.

>>14937757

Didn't know that ctrl+enter auto-submits your post.

What I was going to say is that the nuke thing is both the right and wrong allegory. It's right in that Chamber is like a nuke, but it's wrong in that the analogy isn't being used right. The problem isn't that Chamber is a nuke, it's that Chamber is a nuke that Ledo has no retraint in using. He using using his nuclear weapon as a deterrent against attack, he's using it as a first-response weapon. There's a difference between a powerful weapon's existence maintaining peace, and a mindset equivalent to McArthur's on China (where he wanted to drop 8 atomic bombs on major Chinese cities to demoralize them).

>>14937727
>The pirates have never killed anyone before
They weren't using airsoft rifles when they attacked the fleet. I find it hard to believe large explosions on small ships have never caused casualties.

>>14937770
Killing people who resist is not the same thing as killing for the fun of it.

>>14937767
Would the world have become a better world if it had happened?

>>14937775

No, the opposite because it would've solidified that using atomic weaponry was just a normal part of warfare. No one would have a reason not to do it against an enemy without nukes (China didn't get one for another decade) because we had made it routine.

>>14937767
Even that analogy isn't right. A nuke is indiscriminate. Chamber can kill only the targets he wants to, even if they're standing right next to hostages.

That sort of precision changes the moral equation you normally have against nukes. Would Mcarthur have been right to call on a machine caliber bombardment of, say, government officials to end the war in Korea? No civilian casualties at all makes that option sound a whole lot more appealing.

>>14937782
>A nuke is indiscriminate.
>Would Mcarthur have been right to call on a machine caliber bombardment of, say, government officials to end the war in Korea? No civilian casualties at all makes that option sound a whole lot more appealing.

Nukes being indiscriminant is irrelevant to the historical MacArthur example because civilian or military, they were all communists in his eyes, and he followed the Jacksonian policy of "the only good X is a dead X"

>>14937773
No, the fun is in raping Bellows.

>>14937792
Either way is good desu

>>14937782

The problem is that Ledo saw it again, as a first-reponse option.

Do you really think a nation could just go around obliterating anything that looked at them funny, even if it's precise, and not be seen as a warmonger? It worked in his old environement because it existed in total war, anything that wasn't your side was the enemy. But earth doesn't follow those rules.

>>14937806
If it used annihilation as a first response option against aggression? Yeah, I think it could not be seen as a warmonger. There's a yuge difference, both emotionally and morally, between defending yourself and trying to hurt someone unprovoked.

>>14937808

Remember what Ledo said when they asked why he went full annihilation, "Does eliminating the enemy necessitate a reason?". It's not even their aggression, he would've destroyed them regardless if they're the enemy.

I can't believe you morons are still having this discussion after it has been explained by others so clearly already.
tl;dr
>Ledo turned skirmishes into all-out war without anyone's consent
>Ledo essentially painted a target on Gargantia's back and fucked up the balance of power in the region, making is so that every force in the region would make their top priority wiping out Gargantia which was now seen as the biggest regional threat to everyone
>The Gargantians had no way to know if Ledo would stay on their side after showing he was capable of casually killing everyone
>Gargantia had no real military force, and being thrust into the middle of a war made most of their forces abandon them for bluer waters
>it was economically cheaper and safer for them to deal with the bandits like they always had instead of risking everything in a war
Also, stop with the bad metaphors involving WW2 and nukes. God damn it I hate you people.

>>14937824
The only other enemy he's ever been in contact with were the hideaze, who are locked in genocidal war with his own nation. Even there, the propoganda being fed to him made it seem like the GAH was defending itself in the only way possible.

That he would obliterate any enemy isn't the issue. What he designates as an enemy is the important part of that moral question. If his designation follows what he is taught, then he only calls people that try to harm him or his allies as enemies.

That's not really a problem.

>>14937840
>>it was economically cheaper and safer for them to deal with the bandits like they always had
I.e. bend over and try to enjoy the rape.

>>14937858

As I've said in threads where people criticize Star Trek diplomacy, that's a very easy argument to make when you're sitting from a position of power. Anyone can be a moral arbiter on a situation when they're powerful enough to do whatever they want, which the fleet was not.

>>14937907
>have a superweapon asking if they want it to kill all the pirates
>say no
>THEY AREN'T IN A POSITION OF POWER

They chose rape for themselves as an alternative to zenmetsu for the pirates.

>>14937912
They didn't know that Chamber could do that.

In the end it always goes back to the fact that Japan is an extremely pacifistic nation these days and very few people in their society are going to express views that go against that.

>>14937907
Why are you responding to this barely functioning retard? He can't even dissociate his viewer-knowledge from the character's in-story knowledge. He's stupid!

>>14937912
Amy didn't say "go kill the pirates", she said "please save Bellows"

>>14937925
It has nothing to do with Japan, you're not even correct about the country's social views. Weebs, I swear.

>>14937925
They absolutely knew chamber could do that. They just watched him disintegrate every pirate in the raiding party instantly.

>>14937931
I was referring to the point later on where glasses bitch tells ledo not to get involved when the pirates come calling again.

>>14937912

I'm talking about YOU. It's easy for YOU to make the argument because you come from a country that has the ability to use force to get what it wants. The fleet has always existed in a state of powerlessness, as shown when they tried a bombardment of the pirate fleet attacking and we see a shell literally bounce off a pirate ship, failing to damage it.

The only person who thought of the situation from multiple angles was the old man. Even Pinion initially wanted Ledo gone because he didn't trust him and wanted Chamber for himself.

>>14937934

Not him but literally the whole fucking point of Gargantia's subtext is about teaching young japanese kids to break out of their shell and make their own way in society. It's why Chamber is written to be like Ledo's parent, and why he lets him go in the end.

>>14937949
There is a difference between being used to powerlessness and having a smug superiority about powerlessness. Gargantia was very much the latter, and it made their decisions come off as insane.

>>14937983

I never saw it as that, more of "oh god, he's fucked up everything. What if he just decides to leave one day and the pirates attack again?"

>>14937949
>Not him but
You're mixing up messages. Yes, Gargantia's message is about kids entering society. However, the attitude of Gargantia not wanting an all out war with pirates has nothing to do with Japan. Fuuuuuuuck youuuuuuu

>>14937999
It's been years, since i've watched this, but I remember their objection to Ledo killing the pirates in the second confrontation being about the fact that he'd actually kill the pirates and that would be wrong. Him possibly leaving afterwards wasn't even mentioned.

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>>14938024

They shot back too with everything they had, so frankly that's just hypocrisy from the writers more than anything. The defender ships of the fleet don't have guns for nothing.

Have the light novels been translated?
Would be interesting to see where they were taking the story.

GAH finding Earth and butt raping the Gargantians?

Space Hideauze genociding Earth?

>>14938029
It's not a question of lethality but of numbers. It's the difference between one or two people being shot over a coke deal and total war. Gargantia has no way of knowing that Leto can limit himself in battle, and given that his only way of thinking is an intractable forever way they might be right, at least initially.

It's not about pacifism, it's about keeping in mind that there's no such thing as a permanent enemy when considering what bridges to burn.

>>14938755
>implying she uses protection

>>14938024
>>14938029
The weapons both Gargantia and pirates have are relatively non-lethal - relatively being the key word, they're still guns but much less dangerous than Chamber wiping everyone out in a fraction of a second.

It's like how certain African cultures had war that was just small groups of warriors fighting each other, and a battle would end as soon as only a few of them die on one side (or even only one if he was the champion). That's how they did things to make sure neither side loses all able-bodied men in a single battle, basically dooming the whole tribe. But it wasn't a gentleman's agreement or anything like that, it's just that this way of waging war was so ingrained into their way of thinking that it was real for them.

This is how conflicts look like for Gargantia. And what Chamber was doing is the equivalent of going to this type of battlefield and dropping a nuke.

>>14938773
>But it wasn't a gentleman's agreement or anything like that, it's just that this way of waging war was so ingrained into their way of thinking that it was real for them.
This is a thoughtless statement. Total war is a rare thing in history. It's not because of a gentlemen's agreement, like said, but nor is because it's "just ingrained in them" (wtf). It's a matter of necessity for both sides. Rarely will an army fight to the last man and rarely will an enemy kill every foe because trying to annihilate an opposing force will bring a lot of risk to your own.

>>14938787
Yes, but various cultures in history had various stances on when and in what conditions it was considered acceptable to flee, give up or otherwise stop fighting, as well as what the consequences were for doing so.

The example I gave had a certain level of ritualization present in warfare to keep deaths at minimum - not because the people involved were pacifists or hated violence, but because that's what the environment they lived in demanded. Huge casualties would mean their societies lose too many people to sustain themselves (compare cultures of more clement places like ancient Greece, where you could almost live off the land by yourself and as a result everyone was at each others' throats all the time), so society itself created mechanisms to limit that. I assume something similar happens with Gargantia.

>(wtf)
Not familiar with the expression, ingrained into something? It could also be that I'm tired and it's late so my writing is rambly.

>>14938813
>Yes, but various cultures in history had various stances on when and in what conditions it was considered acceptable to flee, give up or otherwise stop fighting, as well as what the consequences were for doing so.
It comes down to the decisions of leaders, whoever can run away or when a coup occurs. You can look at history. Total war is a rare thing.

>Not familiar with the expression, ingrained into something?
No, I said wtf because your statement was astoundingly stupid.

>compare cultures of more clement places like ancient Greece, where you could almost live off the land by yourself and as a result everyone was at each others' throats all the time
What? No. Additionally, in Mesolithic cultures where subsistence agriculture was king, there was rarely any armed conflicts.

It comes down to some very simple reasons
1. An army will rarely fight to the death when defeat is certain
2. The victorious army will rarely push to kill everyone because it will mostly result in a fight against a cornered enemy which can lead to huge casualties.
3. It's better to take over the defeated population in order to use them for man power and assimilate their ranks or to extort resources in exchange for a cessation of conflict.

It has nothing to do with arbitrarily being ingrained in their behavior. That doesn't make any damn sense because why would they have that behavior in the first place if it's meaningless and only stems from habit? Fucking christ that's stupid.

(another guy here)
The way you say it would suggest they were mad with him because he clearly had godlike power, yet chose to exterminate rather than show his might and ask for their surrender.

Themselves don't because they don't have godlike power, if they didn't fight to kill they would die themselves.

>>14938893

Some guy you just met is hanging out on your stoop. You don't really know anything about him, he just keeps hanging out on your stoop.

While you are debating whether to call the cops on him, one of your friends gets jumped by a gang and is getting the shit beaten out of him in the street. Stoop guy seems like a big guy, so you plead him to help save your friend from this beating.

Stoop guy responds by pulling out a fucking P90 you didn't know he had and one by one blowing away each member of the gang, even those trying to flee. Mercilessly cutting them down in cold blood simply because you asked.

Then he goes back to sitting on your stoop. Your friend is okay, but now 6 people are dead at the hands of this psycho.

You expect people to be okay with that? Are you telling me you wouldn't feel horrified and unsafe?

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>>14939219
Your analogy is missing gangs SHOOTING TO KILL at each other and the Stoop being a Terminator capable of sniping everybody in an instant.
You can't exactly "set to stun" an automatic riffles.

I think the main difference is that they don't kill when they can avoid it. Their humans population being restricted to a few fleets certainly play a role in that.
And it was clear that our MC didn't need to kill. Had he disabled the pirate ship they would have been left without a way to flee. Yet Chamber sniped the human with insane precision killing every human target as if they were less important than the clothes they worn.

>>14939274

Your pirates fired at the defense ships that were there to shoot back at them, yes. But when they boarded Bellow's ship, the pirates didn't just murder indiscriminately. Their job was to loot the treasure and cargo, maybe do some recruiting. A show or force and a collection of goods.

The pirates were objectively less violent than Ledo was himself. If they were, Bellows would have been dead long before Chamber got there.

>>14939358
We seem to agree, so why do I feel like you are trying to counter my point ? 4chan must be killing my brain.

Anyway, clearly, even today, even without being part of a forces with moral rules we know that if you let your victims alive they'll keep producing so you can mug them another day.

... then come Ledo, who have been trained all his life for a war of extermination...

>>14938766
shes pure

>>14941697
Condoms are just for show

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best girl

>>14917969
WASTED. POTENTIAL.

>>14944417

Only in that it didn't get a sequel. The series is perfect as it is. The only improvement I would make is to explictly state, rather than just imply, that both Ledo and Kugel didn't just 'randomly' show up on Earth, they popped out there because the original hyperspace gate is still up there. Or enough of it, at any rate.

>>14944535
>The series is perfect
Perfectly shit maybe.

>>14917969
not enough pr0n

>HFY fags still complaining about even the possibility of peace with the squids.

Fuck you guys.

>>14945754
>doesn't want to make space great again
The reclamation tubes are too good for you.

>>14945857
>implying space isn't already great

Space is the place you gravity-bound fucknib.

Pinion best guy

>>14946732
Please tell me that's not official. Please. Palette Swap characters?

>>14946732
More of them?

>>14947238
Official

>>14947242
Jesus.

>>14947238
>>14947274
>everyone the GA is confirmed to be physically similar due to genetic engineering
>Ledo and Amy's son look like his parents
>Chamber is a mass produced robot
Wow big surprise so palette swap amirite

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>>14947351

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>>14947358

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>>14947363

>>14947351
I don't remember Melty being the tallest among the girl trio.

>>14947549
Look at her feet.

Is there any chance the sequel LNs will be ever translated to english?
In the meanwhile, is there any detailed summary of the plot?

>>14947238
>>14947239
>>14947242
>>14947274
>>14947321
Yeah those two actually have no relation to Ledo or Amy whatsoever. Mech's also said to be a prototype of a Machine Calibur or something.

>>14917969

The great space war was infinitely more interesting than the thrust of the series, which was boring as fuck.

>>14949103
Dreams don’t work unless you do

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>>14947833
There's always a chance. But consider that there are literally thousands of LNs, VNs and manga that are untranslated/unscanned. Something has to become really cult before it's picked up by someone.

Pic related.

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Delicious character design

just saying

New season?

>>14953664
Old news already, but it was in the works, then was cancelled and ultimately published as a light novel, unde the title "Suisei no Gargantia: Haruka, Kaikou no Tenchi".
There's some info in this thread on some plot points, but not nearly enough to actually know the actual plot.

>>14947549
She had a growth spurt from getting so many spurts inside her.

Lewd girls

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>>14954990
>mid90s anime native american aesthetic will never make a come back

>>14958206
What other shows had it?

How did it become a thing anyway?

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>>14959494
I would name one but it's overrated and I don't like her, so I'll post this instead

>>14923092
They were losing by their own fucking faggotry though, they got so obssessed with war that they essentially became the human reflection to the squid people and were just as warmongering killing their own population to fuel the war

>>14925805
Except the whole war and everything bad resulting from it came from GAH and their original creators, they were the one to throw the first stone but somehow did not expect the faction they were attacking to respond with extreme deadly force, they are merely reaping what they sowed

>>14926154
>To me, Chamber's argument makes perfect sense and that a person who gives their humanity is some of an aberration to nature.
I guess Ledo is an aberration to nature along with all other soldiers since they are at best biological cpus for the robots, everyone in the GAH gave up their humanity since the day they are born, their whole society is a fucking abomination, if you cannot fight in the war you get sumarily executed as it happend to his own fucking younger brother, no wonder GAH ends up dying in the end, their only reason for existing is to kill the enemy at all cost, something that ends crippling their own "society"

Also its funny that the only way you can make your argument work is by ignoring everything and only taking what Chamber said at face value, completely disregarding all information you just discovered

>>14958206
>Grandia
Man, that was a fun game.

>>14959647
>tfw Grandia stopped being good as a series after 2
Shame, really. At least Mark Hamill got to ham out for Xtreme.

>>14960415
>Blond asshole gets a harem with her and Bellows

Life isn't fair.

Its "local flavor" stuff was boring and it felt unfocused on whether it wanted to be a mecha or a SOL in some cases. It had some really good ideas, then stopped caring and did stuff that wasn't nearly as good.
Urobochi mentioned in an interview that he was onlly there for basic ideas and writing the first and last episode; after that it was mainly the director's work. I definitely felt that a bit. I'm not the biggest Urobochi fan, but hes generally pretty good at coming up with ideas, and the stuff that has his trademark is interesting on paper, while the stuff that doesn't seems very filler-y.
Not surprised its second season got cancelled, honestly. It felt like they were having trouble stringing together ideas for the first, and I presume Urobochi wasn't interested, and there goes their main star.

>>14960731
Pinion is pretty hot with his hair down, eh.

I would hit that too, no homo.

In contrast with the lively tempo of the music, This show made all the movements slow, as in a slow-motion film.

>>14950486
I miss you

>>14964631
Why were they so slutty?
and why can't they dance

>>14964631
why are Gargantia girs so lewd?

>>14966378
Evolutionary pressure since their fleet is always being raped by pirates. Generations of everyone but the sluts being killed leads to bellows.

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>>14966378 >>14964641
Character design did hentai before
That's what I heard at least

>>14966663
lewd gils

>>14968469
The temperature was below freezing.

Too much midriff

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>>14972972
>Too much midriff
No such things

>>14917969
the waifus are awesome

>>14973400
As long as the weather holds

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>>14974839
I have a sudden urge to study Climate engineering right now

>>14917969
Saw the first two eps at a con and was interested enough to check out the rest on CR; really enjoyed it. Had some good old Urobuchi themes but really didn't particularly shine in any one area. Still had a great time, liked the show, and am looking forward to the OVA.

It was okay. A lot of the visual design seemed "off" tho with the exception of the scenic shots. Chamber's personality was godtier. They also handled the twist really well.

I stopped watching right before his commander came back but I found out that things ended up more or less fine. Not sure if it's worth finishing the last 5 episodes

>>14975255
You're thinking with your head down.

>>14978641
At the very least listen to Chamber's farewell speech.

>>14978641
The last arc is weak if you ask me, but the final episode is pretty good. Worth a watch even if you skip the rest.

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>>14917969
Butcher gave the job to the lowest-tier otaku writers after episode 1. They still stapled his name on the product. Sasuga Japan.

>>14921312
So are these books? Are they translated somewhere?

>>14979851
See >>14953794

OVA was fucking terrible, can't say I'm disappointed about no second season.

>>14959624
When your enemy is dead set on your extermination, and you are living in space colonies, you are limited in resources and you can't really afford to carry dead weight. You have to make sacrifices, and you have to fight or you die. That's the very essence of humanity. Just because you are sheltered and pampered in your first world degenerate lifestyle doesn't mean that those who are fight to survive are an abomination.

>>14980186
>OVA
it was much better than series

>>14979851
no

>>14947351
character designs are fantastic.