What went wrong?

>>14886816
Absolutely Everything!

>>14886816
Asking yourself what didn't might be easier.

>>14886816
Idols, SoL, School Setting, Yuri, Moe, the list goes on...

>>14886816
Allowing /v/ on this board

>>14886816
"lack of creativity" in the shows after ''Plus''.

>>14886816
I'll bite. They tried way too hard without actually balancing out what Macross NOT Gundam. They ended up with a vaguely less head-up-its-own-ass version of Gundam Seed.
I'm somewhat ashamed it took me until I realized what a money sink it was for them to charge for five figurines of mostly redundant idols.
In essence, they got too used to the money that Sheryl and Ranka figs pulled in, and thought that if they multiplied that by 2.5, they'd make that much more money.

Delta will forever be known as the Macross worse than II.

You didn't want to listen to their song.

>>14886893
ikenai borderline was nice

>>14886816
Delta will forever be known as the Macross worse than 7 and frontier.

>>14886816
A different era. You're just getting old, OP.

>>14886909
that was the ONLY SINGLE good thing of delta
the show is the absolute worst one, yeah, even worse than Macross II

>>14886816
>What went wrong?
Otaku.

That's what went wrong.

Does anyone even unironically like Delta?

>>14887046
From what I have seen so far yeah its fine but I have like 6 more episodes to go.

>>14887046
It seemed more like a mediocre inoffensive show but I guess it gets replies if you label it the spawn of satan

>>14887046
I dropped it awhile back because I lost interest, but I didn't hate it. I was just kinda bored. It needed better pacing

>>14886816

Too many episodes.
13 episodes + film would have been just right.
Instead...

>>14886816
Lack of funding
>>14887046
Me
>>14886909
Hear the Universe is really good too, too bad we only got 20 seconds of it in the show.

>>14886816
Kawamori forgot what means to respect his own franchise and tried the sell the lowest of bullshits over bullshits.

Macross is dead in the water.

>>14886816
They forgot that Windemereans other than Roid were villains.

>>14886995
>That's what went wrong.
Then it was always wrong.

Will Delta's failure affect Kawamori's next project?

Instead of this mine control ,freedom and taking over the universe. They should just use their original story instead.

2 schools battling out for the next Macross Idol competition, yes students learn to fly valks too.

you get the girls, school life , romance, drama, comedy, competition, mecha, valks, ships, oh and yes, singing and dancing.
They can toss so much stuff in the setting.

but no , we get this half ass battle with mind control.

>>14887248
>t. 1982

First off, none of the idols felt fleshed out or like real characters at all. Basically all looked/acted like cardboard cut out archetypes.

Compare them to characters like Misa Hayase, or Minmei. Both characters have some depth to them. Minmei was a terrible person at times, but that was at least A character trait that made her seem realistic.

Delta was just Type B Otaku bait idols. The lowest form of Otaku next to train Otaku.

Also, I am a firm believer that the principle of Macross is about cultures learning from each other, and the idols being more of a vector for that understanding. A propaganda tool at times....not an "actual" fucking weapon. That's fucking retarded.

Delta was not made for Macross fans. It was made for cancer.

>>14887622
>Misa
>Depth
?

>>14886816
There's literally three other threads just like this. I'm certain now it's just one anon making these threads as a poor trolling attempt.

>>14887046
Only contrarians in /m/ like this abortion.

>>14887046
I do. It has some problems but there's some fun stuff in there too. It's not that bad.

>>14887645
We wait years for another Macross and it's shit. Try to understand our disappointment.

>>14886816
Where is Minmay in the first pic and Hayate, Mirage, their mechs and the series villains in the second pic?

>>14886968
delusion

>>14887761
Considering that Delta is somehow even worse than Macross 7 overall it's a fair comparison...

>>14886816
You'd think opening a thread with that sentence would be autoban material by now but nooooooo

>>14887616
newfag

>>14886816
Everything!

>>14887046
I do!

>>14887046
>Delta
a crap

sure is a bunch of butthurt delta fags in this thread

sure is a bunch of passionate delta/Kawamori and idol fags in this thread.

>>14886816
New ideas

>>14886816
sameness

>>14886816
Bland plot
Bland characters
Bland animation
Lazy battles
Extremely bland second half

If I was one of the sponsors, I would want Kawamori's head on a stick.

>>14891224
It's the sponsors fault anyway. It was original only 13 episodes but halfway through production it was extended for another 13 episodes. Blame them for fucking with the pacing.

>>14886928
okay anon but I'm an 18 year old babby, not OP. And I don't like it either and loved Macross.

>>14886816
unnecessary filling

>>14891224
I'd agree with most of this except the bit about battles. they wern't simply lazy they were outright jokes. nothing but non lethal wing clipping and drone shooting for 99% of the
show and then one huge mook kill so they can point at Roid and say "look how evil this dude is it totally negates all the bad things the rest of his people did right? right?" It wasn't lazy.

It was just plain insulting to peoples intelligence. Aside from the mook massacre the fights in this series looked more like schoolyard brawls all the while the series
tries to present the war as being serious.

>>14887622
>The lowest form of Otaku next to train Otaku
What's wrong with trains, buddy?

>>14886816
well, Everything!

20+ minutes of DYRL is Minmei singing.

>>14892891
Rail Wars

>>14886816
>disrespecting Mirage
they had one job

dropped

>>14886816
gratuitous kawaii poopoo

>>14886816
>What went wrong?
moe shit

>>14886816
Macross Delta is like K-ON's clone

>>14886816
OP last macross show are 2/10

>>14894074
>>14894311
>>14894922
>>14895273
Samefag

>>14891261

I'd rather blame the production staff for not being able to cover for that new episode order adequately. Sponsors and producers make new demands on productions of all kinds the whole time - a good show isn't one that faces no such challenge, it's one that manages to overcome it.

SDF faced the exact same thing, with the initial episode order and budget being cut to reduce sponsor spending and then lengthened again once the show began airing and was popular. It managed to cover for that loss in production and then made use of the new episodes even though they had to think up new material to do so since they'd already story boarded for the story they did have. Delta couldn't manage the same thing in an entertaining or interesting way in my opinion, so I put the blame on the staff and not the sponsors for doing what they basically always do.

Even discounting that though I'd blame the staff anyways since the first half was already showing problems, especially after episode 6 or 7. The second half makes those problems more stark, but people were already noticing the lack of focus of any kind on Mirage in the first half (hence the frequent complaints all she did was yell Delta 5), the action starting to get samey and the villains doing a Team Rocket thing, where they show up, do the exact same suit every episode and then leave with no real change made. It started about episode 5 or 6 once war were declared and stayed rather true till Messer died. Speaking of, his death in episode 11 (?) with Hayate shooting down his killer in the finale at episode 13 would be just as bad in a 13 episode show as a 26, since neither really builds up Hayate to do it at all.

Dear Kawamori, just don't touch megaroad-01 story line, please, they disappeared and that's all.

>>14895586
Don't worry, Kawamori would never properly resolve his love triangles because he doesn't know how to.

Macross Delta was a mistake, the only good thing is Freyja but even she is being wasted in 2nd cour, she deserve better story.

And here are the 2016 mecha shows list that better than this shit:
Active Raid
Bubuki Buranki
Schwarzesmarken
Gundam RE: 0096
Kuromukuro
Gundam The Origin
Regalia: The Three Sacred Stars
Gundam Thunderbolt: December Sky
Majestic Prince episode 25
Gundam BFT TV special
Gundam IBO s2
Majestic Prince Movie
Zegapain ADP
Titanfall 2 story mode

That's right, every mecha shows in this year is better than Macross Delta.

Delta makes Frontier look like the original series

>>14895784

Nah, Try's OVA at least was even worse than i t. I'd probably add a few others from list there too, like Gundam RE: 0096 and Regalia. Delta was still pretty bad, but it's not the worst and at least had some good points as well as some outright good episodes even if the whole was pretty dull.

>>14895793
>Try's OVA at least was even worse
Maybe, but at least it only wasted you 30 minutes.

>>14891224
Actually the sponsors are at fault for most of it, extending the series passed its natural end, Mirage being pointless, forced love triangle, lack of funding for proper mecha battles, etc.

>>14895784
You forgot to mention Time Bokan 24.

>>14895433
Depending on the demands sponsors make it can fuck over a show, see Code Geass R2, and Digimon 02 or even Tamers.

>>14897552
>Depending on the demands sponsors make it can fuck over a show, see Code Geass R2, and Digimon 02 or even Tamers.

Delta feels like they had less story for the amount of episodes they got than Frontier did.

>>14897613
Of course, Delta was just a 1 cour show that ended up getting another cour when it really didn't need it. Delta wasn't ever meant to be an ambitious project to begin with. But the sponsors wanted to artificially turn it into one.

Frontier was always meant to be ambitious so it was.

>>14892891
Anno likes them. Seriously, I could abide the fish eyed form of godzilla but fuck that shitt CG train bomb scene. It was only there just because he NEEDS trains to be somewhere in everything he does

>>14897756
Then they shouldn't even bother making a Macross. Fuck Kawamori.

>>14887046
It was alright.

>>14887095
Too many became too few.

>>14887622
>Delta was just Type B Otaku bait idols. The lowest form of Otaku next to train Otaku.
/m/ love it!

>>14886816
Idol shit got out of control
before you got a good story and mecha porn and you also had idol shit

today you have idol and and idol shit with idol shit on the side. oh and retarded love triangle THAT GOES NOWHERE

>>14897522
See
>>14895433
Blaming sponsors doesn't change the fact that they're lack of ideas.
The fact is after 26 episodes Macross Delta almost solved nothing, even it stay same plan i don't see it could be any better, Kawamori and the writer basically want to use it as their excuse.

>>14897756
Macross Delta being expanded to 2 cour show when the writer writing episode 4, notice it's writing, not airing or making, it's in very early stage which means they have plenty of time that try to do more about the show.
But they didn't, they just make almost all episodes of 2nd cour nothing happened, so it's the writer's fault, plain and simple.

I'm actually kinda proud, I thought /m/ liked what happened to Macross.

>>14886909
To be honest Walkure had a lot of great songs. Junjou, Cosmic, Senjou, Rune Pika, Onyanoko, Walkure Attack, Absolute 5. It needed more VF combat. And not JUST fucking fighter mode. I wouldn't give two shits about the mediocre war story if we had just seen some nice combat with gerwalk and ESPECIALLY battroid mode.

>>14898558
Good job being proud of /m/'s trademark anti-popularity contrarianism

>>14898577
Well, sadly the show itself wasted many Walkure Trap!'s songs.

>>14887046
As a whole, Delta is ok at best. The first half was iffy when it came to pacing but solid fun. Second half kept disappointing as weeks went by, literally the only reason I kept watching was to see if Freyja would win the Hayatebowl and if the Immelmann dance would make a glorious return. Sadly only the former was fulfilled.

>>14898596
Niche board for niche shit is niche

>>14887046
>Does anyone even unironically like Delta?

Yes?

It's first half was good but it peaked there and the second half didn't manage to live up to it. Still enjoyed it.

>>14887046
bland

>>14886816

Japanese audiences?

>>14898553
By the time that the episodes are being written the outline for the show is already done. And episodes are being written, based on that outline. Not all stories can be expanded.

>>14898119
There's no rule that states that every Macross needs to be at least 24 episodes.

>>14887046
Yeah. I mean, it's fucking stupid, but I enjoyed it.

>>14899571

I disagree. Not only can any story be expanded, you have the option on simply expanding an epilogue like the original Macross did if for some reason you can't think of a way to reasonably expand your story. That the writer was ordered to double the episode order early in the process of writing the episodes isn't an excuse for the second half being mostly kind of boring. Especially not when the first half already had problems and even when it came time to wrap up the writer didn't do so in a satisfying way despite the longer run time. The rather inconclusive ending would probably have happened and spoiled the show for some regardless of the expanded episode order.

>>14898553
By the time that individual episodes are being written the story has already been planned. Also it's not uncommon for several episodes to be written at the same time.

>>14899605
That depends on the actual story being told. With the original Macross the characters were in a completely new situation they were now starting over on desolated planet Earth with their new allies, the Zentradi/Meltradi fleets, but they're more fleets out there, which in and of itself was a good basis for its own story. Frontier was in a similar situation, the story ends with the characters being displaced and in a new environment and with their problems not really being solved, Galaxy is still out there. 7 was in a similar boat.

Delta on the other hand was more like Plus and Zero where the ending doesn't really leave itself open to new stories with the same cast. The conflict was overly, and self-contained overly personal and doesn't really lend itself well to expanding the story with those specific characters and villains. This caused the writer to pad out the time the time to artificially because there wasn't ever much to it to begin with, the story became boring because not much was happening.

>>14899678

One of the bigger complaints I've seen about Delta's finale is how unsatisfying and open it is. Windermere declared war on the entire galaxy, yet just because Roid died the whole thing is over. The fact that they mind controlled entire planets and wanted to mind control the entire Cluster has no repercussions we're told about. Just Roid died, Heinz wants to make peace, the end. We don't even get any kind of conclusion to what happened to Freyja and Windermerean life spans despite the obvious signs of aging she was showing before the finale. Hayate picked her, the end. Move on. If you don't think that can be expanded then you have no imagination in my opinion. Even on a personal level you still have Bogue who has a lot of anger at NUNs and no real reason to accept a cease fire and could detail Mirage moving on from Hayate at the very least.

Putting that aside though I think it's honestly kind of insulting to say the writer had to pad out time, and to think about the whole lot of nothing that was used to pad that time out when Delta was supposed to be a sector wide war and we barely see most planets, if we see them at all so that it ends up feeling like a very small conflict despite the apparent stakes. We don't even see much of Windermere for all the time that's actually spent there. If the writer wanted to pad time he could have had episodes with conflict on planets like Alfheim. Or detail more about Chuck or Arad. Or about the bridge bunnies. He could have expanded more on NUNs or Chaos, like all the Chaos personnel and ships that showed up for all of two episodes at the mid point of the show.

There's a lot that could be done to expand the story that it wanted to tell or to expand the epilogue of that story in my opinion and I refuse to accept the idea that Delta was just the wrong kind of story to expand and the staff were just unlucky to be saddled with the burden of doing so, so it's all the dirty sponsor's fault.

>>14899886
Kawamori said in a recent interview that once Roid was defeated both Heinz and Lady M worked towards achieving peace, but that doesn't mean the ending feels less lackluster. And nothing is said about what happens to NUNS, but at least I hope they are saving that for the next Macross, or Epsilon, for that matter.

As for expanding the story, I think a lot of the stuff from the Knights manga should have been in the series. I don't know why it isn't since it's pretty vital to understand why Windermere went to war or why characters like Roid, Keith and Bogue act like they do in the series. And then as for Xaos and Walkure, at times I think they should have been a part of NUNS, just to simplify things a bit and to make the conflict more interesting, because that would make everything more personal and the bomb reveal more shocking to them.

Also, I wish Wright had actually thrown the bomb on his own accord if only because it would have given Hayate an interesting character arc about coming to terms with the memory of his dad and what he did during war. I like Hayate, but as a protagonist he's the blandest that any Macross has had. There's nothing interesting or worth discussing about this guy.

>>14899957
>I like Hayate, but as a protagonist he's the blandest that any Macross has had. There's nothing interesting or worth discussing about this guy.
Nien, at least we can have a good laugh about his father complex on Freyja. I thought Shin was worse.

>>14899987
At least Macross Zero was only 5 eps long.

>>14899987
Shin was bland but at least he had that moment in ep 4 (I think) were he started singing on his own, proof that he had found a bit of hope after a life of war and PTSD. But all I can say about Hayate is that he had no direction in life, met Freyja, fell in love and found something he wanted to do. And that's really it. In the end Heinz and Keith fix the mess themselves, and the supposed 'link' to Windermere feels weak, as does his personal investment in the war because the only ones who thought his father had dropped the bomb were a few select Windermereans and NUNS personnel. There's no honor he has to defend and reclaim to the rest of the galaxy, unlike Windermere.

And to top it off, he's the protagonist of a series with secondary characters who have far more going for them like Messer, Keith, Bogue, Kaname, Mirage (I know a lot will disagree here) and Roid. I could talk about Messer and how sad and tragic his character arc is, or how war affected Keith, Bogue and Roid in such a way that one can only understand his actions if he remembers all they had to go through. Kaname and Mirage also have arcs and themes that mirror each other, since the first is someone who at first thought she had no choice but to be relegated to an extra and the second struggles to meet everyone else's expectations and perseveres despite feeling crushed by the pressure a lot of the times.

And I'm not even going to talk about comparing Alto with Hayate because as much as the first got on my nerves, at least he was a complex character.

>>14899886
>One of the bigger complaints I've seen about Delta's finale is how unsatisfying and open it is.

The ending isn't really open at all because Windermere has very few options since they've lost all of there negotiating power, what we have are unanswered questions most of which will be answered or were answered in extra materials since there's no place for it in the series itself, because it has nothing to do with our main cast.

For all we know the plan may have been for the conflict in Delta to effect a cluster of settlements, but it was expanded to the whole galaxy due to the series getting more episodes. Then they started throwing ideas at the board hoping that some would stick. Something similar happened with Digimon 02, during the planning the producer threw out the the planning for the second half because she didn't like it, leaving the writers scrambling to come up with a new one, long short this lead to a lot of unanswered questions, incomplete plot threads and lots of pointless filler.

>>14900188
>Shin was bland but at least he had that moment in ep 4 (I think) were he started singing on his own, proof that he had found a bit of hope after a life of war and PTSD. But all I can say about Hayate is that he had no direction in life, met Freyja, fell in love and found something he wanted to do.
To be honest, the way you said still makes it seem like Hayate was the better character. He started here and actually got somewhere.
>And I'm not even going to talk about comparing Alto with Hayate because as much as the first got on my nerves
What do you got against Alto-hime, bruh?

>>14886816
robotech

>>14900266
Not at all anon was saying that Shinn went through a bigger emotional struggle and also did more in his own story.

Where as Hayate's struggle wasn't much of anything.

>>14900266
>What do you got against Alto-hime, bruh?
Nothing much. Like I said, he could get on my nerves at times but he's an interesting and complex character and I think the staff did a good job with him.

>>14900285
Exactly what I meant.

>>14900285
>>14900305
But he's like this for a majority of the OVA, even after singing along with Sara, he goes back to being PTSD man and whatever development he made doesn't even matter because even though Sara tells him to watch over her people, he just fucks off anyways. Hayate didn't have any PTSD but he became more than the edgy "life sucks" kinda guy he used to be. The guy learned to take orders and became more disciplined. He also went from hating everyone to making friends with Freyja and Mirage.

>>14900347

Shinn never had PTSD. Where are people pulling the idea he had PTSD from? Does stoic soldier now automatically equate to PTSD? I'm pretty sure Sara never requested he watch over her people either. It'd make no sense for a start, since Mao and the elder dude are far better placed to do it. Nor did Hayate ever hate everyone for that matter. He was a bit of a a drifter and a bit of a defensive dick but he was never suggested to hate everyone. He helped Freyja straight away despite not knowing her and her meeting him as a stowaway - there's nothing misanthropic about that.

>>14900362
Not that anon but you're essentially saying that Hayate had no inner conflict, and you're right he didn't.

>>14900347
>but he became more than the edgy "life sucks" kinda guy he used to be.
Hayates was never edgy to begin with. He was just a didn't know what to do with his life and was acting the part of the lazy teenager. Hayate never really changed over the course of the series. Nor did he ever hate anyone.

>>14899957
>Kawamori said in a recent interview
Interview is just interview, they need to show that in the the show itself.

>>14900482
>He was just a didn't know what to do with his life and was acting the part of the lazy teenager. Hayate never really changed over the course of the series.
He went from lazy teenager to teenager fighting a war for galactic peace and the protection of his waifu. He stopped being lazy and constantly put himself in danger to help others.

>>14900225

Windermere have hardly lost all negotiating power since they still have Heinz for a start, and unless someone disables his voice he can still sing and mind control. Sure, NUNs have technology that can stop that, but it's big and bulky and is hardly going to come to a negotiation. Plus they can still play the "NUNs bombed us card". They'll get less sympathy because of their actions, but it's public now and NUNs will have to deal with it at any negotiation.

That aside, I wasn't talking about their power and the negotiations, I was speaking more to the anger the rest of the sector would rightfully feel toward Windermere and be out for blood or at least reparations during said negotiations, if not interrupting or forestalling said negotiations completely because of.

You're also ignoring that I didn't list the status of Windermere as the only open part of the finale and also noted the status of Freyja, who was even in the last few episodes pretty plainly shown to be using up her life force by singing - so not acknowledging that in the finale or showing the outcome of it, whether it's something that may be cured or if her life will be shorter for definite, Hayate's reaction etc. is weird.

Acting like said negotiations have nothing to do with out main cast is also weird to me, since even if you don't want to involve Freyja or Mikumo (both of whom have reason to care about those negotiations as well as the power to at least minorly influence them), even if you don't want to count the fate of the Aerial Knights as being important and entwined with those negotiations you could still have more personal stories run alongside those negotiations and their outcome, at least occasionally intersecting with them - which is exactly what SDF did with it's epilogue arc.

And yet we didn't see which option they choose in the show.
Please stop defending the writers, it's their own fault they're lack of ideas, how the hell it's hard to make it 2 cour for a mecha show with warfare going on and bunch of characters?

>>14886879
>>14886968
II isn't even bad. In fact it's better than at least two other Macross series.

>>14900817

II isn't bad. It's just boring, which is worse depending on your view. The only thing I remember about two is liking that the main character is a photojournalist, but being disappointed the show didn't really do anything with the idea - especially since his profession is another form of culture and I wanted to see some variety in cultural impact. I know a few other things from II due to osmosis of threads over the years, but I wouldn't recall them on my own. II is just a very forgettable experience to me.

>>14886816
Not enough concerts

>>14900668
Heinz is dying and Windermereans aren't immune to Var anymore, if Heinz continues to sing he won't even last a year. Not only that but they also lost the only person who really knows how to utilize the ruins. Without Roid they're shit out of luck as far as their usage of ruins go. Not to forget their actions have most likely put them on the shit list of other races so it's likely that people be less willing to listen to them, since Windermere's actions have also resulted in civilian casualties of innocent 3rd parties, it'll just sound like excuses to them. Not to mention that NUNS can easily say that they did what they did because they thought that Windermere would use the ruins to take over races, and because that's exactly what Windermere tried to do, while spouting xenophobic rhetoric no less, they unintentionally justified NUNS's actions.

>I was speaking more to the anger the rest of the sector would rightfully feel toward Windermere and be out for blood or at least reparations during said negotiations
And Windermere would be at their mercy, because they have no means of fighting back. I'd expect them to want nothing less than the complete dismantling of Windermere's military, it'll take years before they'd be even willing to listen to Windermere's side of the story. Again this isn't really hard to guess what will happen. It's a conflict that doesn't effect the main characters and probably won't see a resolution in their lifetime.

>noted the status of Freyja
An unanswered question not conflict, also I don't think that Frejya and Hayate care. She's also not going to be using her life to sing anymore, because there's no more Var to worry about. It's like getting mad at Frontier for not having Alto rejecting Ranka despite the fact that he's in a relationship with Sheryl doesn't need to be said.

Cont.
>>14900668
>Acting like said negotiations have nothing to do with out main cast is also weird to me,
It shouldn't none of the main cast are politicians nor do they work for NUNS. They're out of their depth here. It'd be like expecting Heero to give public speeches to about peace, he may believe in it but it's not an area that he has any knowledge of, since it's an area where he'd be out of his depth. None of the characters you've mentioned know anything about negotiation especially the Aerial knights who besides Keith have all just been dumb muscle.

>>14900662
He went from being a layabout to a waifufag such great characterization and development.

>>14901025
Nice headcanon, but Kawamori said Windermere will be alright.

>>14901054
I think it's just an excuse so Kawamori doesn't have to work with the train wreck that was Delta again.

>>14901047
A waifufag with a job he can stick with.

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Can't Kawamori just apologize for boring us and make a Delta movie? Is his ego that huge that he thinks what he has given us is actually good enough?

>>14901080
I think the real question is is there any demand for one?

>>14895784
Fuck, this was a bad year. Wasn't it ?

>>14901645
Nobody asked for Frontier movies and they were planned ahead. I think Delta deserves at least one movie to right its wrongs.

>>14901713
Well, really, the best case would be two and the Frontier scenario - one to roughly cover say 2/3rds of the series, a second to end it differently

Frontier TV and Frontier movies are companions but Delta just kind of needs a repair job for that second half

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>>14895784
>Titanfall 2 story mode

>>14901713
Frontier was ridiculously popular when it aired, and there was a demand to see more of the characters. I'm not so sure that one exists for Delta though.

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>>14895784
>the only good thing is Freyja
Jesus, a genki moe idol girl.
Freyja is without a doubt the most overrated mecha character since Sheryl.

>>14901965
People want to see more of Messer and Kaname. If I were part of the staff I'd be banging my head against a wall for not having used them as the protagonists instead.

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>>14902177
>Kaname
it's a terrible character, shes a NTR-ing slut like Mikono.

>>14901954
Well if EA give it to Sunrise or Bones and make it anime it could easily be mecha AOTY of 2016.

>>14901080
>make a shit show
>asking people pay ticket for watching "hey we fixed our mistake!" movie.

No.
"Ichido Dake no Koi Nara" huh? Macross Delta is "Ichido Dake no Delta Nara" then, no movie, no OVA, nothing after this shitty show.
What i hope is next Macross TV will be without Kawamori, sure Macross 2 failed, but that's long time ago, it's time for change.

>>14901025

They didn't lose the only people to know how to use the ruins though, since while Roid is dead, he hardly did the examinations of and made use of them alone. Even if he didn't use any other Windermereans to help him utilize them though, Berger Stone is still around and while he doesn't know as much about the ruins as Roid and would want recompense in a more material manner, he does still know how to use them. Nor has Heinz proven unwilling to use his voice despite the price if he thinks the goal is great enough.

As for Windermere being on people's shit list. Yea, they probably are. Which was why I brought it up as a possible point of contention. Just because they don't have the ruins anymore (assuming the story goes that way) doesn't mean they'll just fold though (no pun intended), and it's pretty likely there'd be at least some people like Bogue who feel anger towards NUNs and refuse to make peace or acquiesce. Being outnumbered and outgunned isn't an obstacle to some people, and frankly if the did fight they'd basically just be in a similar position to humanity during SDF so while winning isn't likely, fighting isn't an unreasonable expectation.

I'm also not getting mad at the fact that the question of Freyja's lifespan is left unanswered, only noting it has been, that it's a weird omission and that it's easy to see how an epilogue arc would explore that among other things. Also, while Freyja, Mikumo or the Aerial Knights are out of their depth and aren't politicians neither was Hikaru, Misa or Minmei. They don't need to personally sit down to negotiate to be in an arc that involves negotiations, no more than Hikaru, Misa or Minmei did.

>>14902542

No shit that Windermere trying to make peace and some rebels fighting on or Freyja exploring whether she has a shortened lifespan or not isn't part of the same conflict that the tv show involved. That's why they'd be in an epilogue, because they'd be exploring new conflicts that arise out of the existing, but wrapped up ones. It's as true of those possibilities as it was true in SDF or could be true in Frontier going by the examples you listed. Delta's story isn't different or it's epilogue unexpandable, because doing so would involve doing literally the exact same thing SDF already did, by exploring the fallout of resolved conflicts from the rest of the show's story.No shit that Windermere trying to make peace and some rebels fighting on or Freyja exploring whether she has a shortened lifespan or not isn't part of the same conflict that the tv show involved. That's why they'd be in an epilogue, because they'd be exploring new conflicts that arise out of the existing, but wrapped up ones. It's as true of those possibilities as it was true in SDF or could be true in Frontier going by the examples you listed. Delta's story isn't different or it's epilogue unexpandable, because doing so would involve doing literally the exact same thing SDF already did, by exploring the fallout of resolved conflicts from the rest of the show's story.

>>14902177
Their ship is overrated. Should have just used Hayate and Freyja more efficiently instead of using them specifically to make Mirage look bad.

>>14902548
>because doing so would involve doing literally the exact same thing SDF already did
And nothing wrong with that, they just lazy to think how to write about it.

>>14902748

I'd prefer Kaname be one of the main characters personally, because I find the idea of someone having to take a second chance at fame using a martial group like Walkure more interesting than what Freyja had going on. Messer was not really any better than Hayate in general, but the idea of a love interest specifically because the other person helps keep them sane through song is better than Hayate liking how Freyja's songs made him feel happy.

>>14902858

I wasn't actually implying there was anything wrong with it. It'd be a problem if it was copying situations identically to SDF, but there's no problem if they're just using the spirit of what it did.

>>14899886
Meaninful conclusions is big jolly fleet of doom arrives, glasses Windermere and then destoys Sigur Valens so no fucko can mind control whole galaxy again.

>>14902866
Oh well at least Kuromukuro have balls to do that, so my wish is fulfilled.

>>14902862
I'd prefer Messer and Mirage become one person and ship he/she with Kaname(hetro or yuri both okay for me).

>>14902874

Wasn't the Sigur Valens destroyed already when Roid was killed?

>>14902876

Kuromukoro did what?

>>14902878

Yea, that's a decent way of handling it. I like merging Freyja and Mikumo as well, along with ditching either Reina or Makina so Walkure is a three idol group consisting of Freyja/Mikumo, Kanade and say Reina. Delta then has Arad, Messer/Mirage and Hayate. Chuck joins up with Delta as a Chaos pilot once the war gets serious and Arad dies because Ragna suffered and he wants to help. Delta has too many characters and doesn't do anything with most of them, so limiting the cast is a good idea I think. The Aerial Knights could probably be limited too, by merging Hermann and that one guy who died for a start. The twins could be merged, but I like the idea of Hayate and Messer/Mirage killing one each in tandem to show their team work has flourished.

>>14902924
No, that was spess goatse designed to emulate vajra aka instrumentality. Valens is still there.

>>14902924
Kuromukuro's "boss fight" ended in episode 24, last 2 episode is a story after that.

Well Delta can do something close since i found out both show actually have similar settings for some characters.
Though i bet the shitstorm will be crazy, just image the war between Xaos and Windermere ended in episode 24, then Xaos locked Mikumo in research center and use her as test subject, then Hayate mad about this so he fucked up the research center and bring Mikumo with him then disappeared, and the show ends with Freyja start going to find them.

That said Kuromukuro execution it pretty well, but i doubt Delta's writer can do the same.

>>14902862
Agree. Freyja and Hayate felt very basic.

>>14902862
>>14902979
From what I've seen in previous threads, nips like KanaMessa simply because they're an older couple. So fan artists have more ideas to play around with compared to the younger clearly more innocent HayaFre. Personally, I felt HayaFre was well written for the most part, but that innocence and purity shit was a mistake, the two don't even kiss in the end. What the fuck is that shit? Ironically enough, HayaFre has more doujin.

>>14902878
No yurishit!

>>14903071
I'd have preferred Kaname and Messer as two of the protagonists and as the main pairing of the series not just because they are older, but also because I find them more interesting and befitting of such a role. If the third main one had been Keith (preferably without being a part of the love triangle) I think we would have had a very interesting main trio made of three older people who have in common having survived a war that clearly marked them. I know Messer would have been tricky to pull off as a protagonist, but having most of the focus on Kaname would have helped. As for Keith, have kill him Arad in ep 10 instead of Messer, that jellyfish guy is useless after all. The series as a whole would have been more popular with kanamessa as the protagonists, and Keith would have benefitted from such popularity too.

>>14903104
Same anon. And to elaborate more, the fans with the buying power are the kanamessa ones, who also happen to be women on her 20s for the most part. Many of them are a bit frustrated at what happened with Messer, from what I read on twitter, even if they don't openly say so. It's hilarious, because just before Messer's death Delta's popularity just kept growing and growing.

>>14903104
>I know Messer would have been tricky to pull off as a protagonist
Not at all. He'd start off cold and antisocial before meeting Kaname, which would start Messer's development into a kinder more compassionate kind of guy. It's a little bit like HayaFre. It's also like Area 88's Shin and Mickey, except they were strictly close friends. If Messer was the MC, I'd still want to keep my Hayate and Freyja around as a sort of equivelant to Michael and Klan. Still you can't deny HayaFre ship was clearly at a disadvantage thanks to the purity crap they pulled.

>>14903118
>Still you can't deny HayaFre ship was clearly at a disadvantage thanks to the purity crap they pulled.
I think it's the purity crap mixed with the fact that HayaFre don't have the kind of dynamics Japanese fans prefer for their ships. The whole "friends who get along really become something more" isn't very popular nor there nor elsewhere. Even now I'm pretty sure that if they had decided to make Bogue fall for Freyja and have conflicted feelings and change because of her that ship would have steamrolled HayaFre's popularity with ease. People like a bit of conflict or drama in their ships. Messakana had it because with Kaname being delegated from main to support by Mikumo, Messer being his biggest fan because she saved him from Var and Keith being after his blood you just wanted to cheer for them.

Ah, fuck, now I remember I wanted Keith and Messer to team up later in the series. They could have been best friends.

>>14903128
>The whole "friends who get along really become something more"
"friends who get along really well and become something more" is what I meant.

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It's sad that there was more and better fanart for Ranka's birthday this year than for Freyja's. Sheryl's is coming up, by the way.

>>14887046
Many anime fans are very easily pleased, especially the type just looking for girls they can pretend they can obsess over, a bit of background noise and then move on.

People will say they like delta, but give it a year and the best response you'll get is one guy going yeah it was okay desu

>>14903148
Sucks because at least here, we like Freyja better than Ranka. I guess the Japanese like their genki girls annoying and clingy.

>>14903169
I like Freyja but I prefer Ranka by a mile. She's more complex, interesting and feels way more real than Freyja. Besides, I think the reason Ranka is so popular in Japan is because she acted for the most part like a normal high school girl and that made her very relatable.

>>14903173
Nips feed on high school anything. I liked Delta's setting better imo because it lacked that high school setting from Frontier. I also think Freyja is the more likable genki, but Frontier is the better show. It actually knew what it wanted to do. Delta didn't sadly.

>>14903173

Ranka was incredibly passive and barely did anything without getting pushed by other people.

Times change. the open and naked militant-ism and violence of the late 70s to mid 90s has fallen away.

>>14902748
Yeah. What the hell was up with their treatment of Mirage's character? By the end of it, that was outright insulting.
>Had a decent role
>Gets it ripped away
>Gets five full seconds of development on her backstory
>Goes from decent combat partner and other mentor figure to triangle bait
>Does everything in their power to make her actions insignificant
>Has her confess and get rejected in front of the entire cast

What the fuck was that Kawamori?

From
>Music? So this is what protoculture really is, no longer are we a slave race used as soldiers!

to
>DUDE MUSIC = MAGIC LMAO HAHAHA

>>14886816
The mecha got retarded. Especially the legs.

>>14903267
from SDF to 7 then?

>>14903260
I can't help but feel Kawamori hates the Jenius bloodline. Hell, I think he hates zents in general. Makes sense because he's a hippy.

The fucked up when they didn't just USE Earth Wind and Fire and make them the Tuskegee Airmen of the Era.

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>>14886816
Could be worse. We could be Roboteh.

>>14903148
Delta rubbed off everyone the wrong way. Most real Macross fans want to forget it.

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>>14903675
I know. I mean, despite Delta being recent and Freyja being popular Ranka still got more fanart for her birthday when Frontier aired 8 years ago. I know it was massively popular, but Ranka and Sheryl's tail is still long and it's still going on. I don't think it will be the same for Freyja.

>>14898558
We did until the second half went to shit

>>14903169

Not really, primarily because there is no "we", given that suggests a hive mind, common consensus or majority opinion which I don't believe has ever been reached on that (or really any) subject here on /m/

>>14903173

Yea, I'd say I prefer Ranka too. She's more passive as anon notes in a later post, but I prefer her story and how she acts (or reacts) within it, to Freyja's story, and that she's forced to try and be more assertive by Sheryl.

Ranka isn't my favorite character, and personally I prefer Sheryl and Klan both in Frontier even just sticking to girls, but she's still a fine character and I prefer her as a struggling singer to Freyja.

>>14903202

Once again, Frontier's setting includes a high school but is not a high school in itself.

>>14903408
Robotech would have de-weebed all the moe-shit. It would still be garbage but for totally different reasons.

>>14903832
>I know it was massively popular
>but Ranka and Sheryl's tail is still long and it's still going on
How do these two ideas contrast with each other?

Anyways, I don't really care if Delta or any future sequel doesn't reach Frontier's level of popularity, I just wanted to see something good. Delta had much promise but threw it all away for episodes of absolutely nothing for the sake of making the show longer.

>>14903905
>Once again, Frontier's setting includes a high school but is not a high school in itself.
Nips don't think as technically as you. They see a little moe shit like Ranka in a school uniform and they're sold.

>>14903922

Ranka barely wears the school uniform from what I recall, and is more commonly in her waitress outfit, stage outfits or her casual clothes. She's not even wearing it in the majority of official art that I recall, never mind pre-airing art to help let people know the show was coming.

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>>14886816
She did.

>>14905476

> Whiningfag

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>>14905476
The macross franchise currently has one of the worst anime fan bases.

>>14905517

actually it's very good

>>14903922
I don't think that even Nips consider it a high school setting considering how little we see of the setting in both fanworks and official works.

>Nips blah blah blah Nips tsk tsk tst Nips this or that Nips blah blah blah Nips tsk tsk tst Nips this or that
delusional slainefag shitposter is back.

>>14905476
>>deltafags
But there's no such thing as deltafags.

>>14903922
You mean how you see a colorful robot and you're sold? You're an idiot. Stop trying to act like you're SOOO above cute girls.

>>14905517
How do you figure? I haven't seen anything half as cringe-y as other fan bases. Have you seen One Punch Man, JoJo, Gurren Lagan, Code Geass, and Kill la Kill fanbases? Macross is incredibly niche and barely appears on radar as far as fanbases go. Here's your (you) in any case.

>>14901025
>because there's no more Var to worry about.
Oh Var is still around. With most races infected by Vajra bacteria there still will be Var incidents.

Epsilon Foundation got away with their research on Var mind control. Plus they aren't the only evil corporation doing it as 5 years before in the Macross E prequel Zelgar Heavy Industries were testing it on giant native fauna.

On thing is for sure Windermere apples would be banned. Windermere were smuggling their apples through Epsilon now that is dried up.

That means a lot of farmers on Windermere would go through poverty. Windermere is comparably poor to other worlds in the cluster as they didn't set up an industrial infrastructure in the 40 years the had contact with Earth. Other Sub-Protoculture worlds at least has some infrastructure like Voldor and Ragna. Zola already had 20th century level tech when Earth made contact with them preferring to use their retrotech alongside Overtechnology. Ragna is a tourist trap. Voldor has an export economy.

Macross was never good and only exists as fetish fuel for macrofags.

>>14908224

I guarantee Var will be a non-issue by the time the next show takes place. They'll have invented a definite vaccine that prevents it indefinitely or it'll just never occur naturally despite the possibility being there.

>>14886816
I think it's because the idol/popstar/lover triangle stuff was treated as essential to every goddamn Macross story for some reason.

Okay, cool culture shock was effective against the Zentradi and the MC didn't end up with the pop star in the end. Now we don't need to mix those elements into every goddamn sequel over and over again.

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>>14908224
>Zola already had 20th century level tech
>Ragna is a tourist trap.
>Voldor has an export economy.
And Windermere has hot Windermerian pussies. It can become the most attractive planet for sex tourism in cluster. Especially since lots of people might want to get "revenge" for the shit Windemerians did.

>>14908224
>On thing is for sure Windermere apples would be banned. Windermere were smuggling their apples through Epsilon now that is dried up.
>That means a lot of farmers on Windermere would go through poverty. Windermere is comparably poor to other worlds in the cluster as they didn't set up an industrial infrastructure in the 40 years the had contact with Earth. Other Sub-Protoculture worlds at least has some infrastructure like Voldor and Ragna. Zola already had 20th century level tech when Earth made contact with them preferring to use their retrotech alongside Overtechnology. Ragna is a tourist trap. Voldor has an export economy.
Ryunosuke Takahashi takes over the franchise

>>14908224
Kawamori said Windermere will be fine. Go away, edgelord.

>>14887046
Yes, I unironically like it. It's flawed to Hell and back, but it didn't really do anything that pissed me off.

Really, I wished they made Hayate's giant robot dancing from the first episode his method of fighting besides the usual gun and missile spamming. Would make him stand out a bit from the other pilots.

>>14887046
I liked the first half a lot.

When does sdf get good? The first few episodes were laughable. Is it really that fantastic?

>>14905376
She's actually the best part about Delta.

>>14908224
Var is still around but it's only a problem when activated and the only person that can do that are "wind singers" like Heinz, Mikumo and Frejya and since Heinz is in no condition to do it anymore and Mikumo and Frejya are unlikely to subject themselves or be allowed to be subjected to research for it, and the fact that there is a vaccine for it means that by the time that the next Macross rolls along Var will be as big a problem as V-type virus was. It's also likely that NUNS will go after those groups that are pursuing that research.

But yeah Windermere is screwed, and they only have themselves to blame.

>>14909399
Kawamori never said that it would be okay instantaneously. It's not like Frontier where we actually did get confirmation that things would be okay in the future and that people would work to help Windermere. But for now they're screwed.

>>14886816
insulting the fans

>>14911652
He said in a recent interview (the one in a mecha magazine) that they have the upperhand in negotiations and that they aren't particularly hated by the other planets of their cluster because they mostly targeted NUNS and left civilians alone. That is, until Roid came along, but he was defeated thanks to the current King and the past White Knight.

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>>14913063
>and left civilians alone
Yeah, I do remember that.

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>>14913084
They even supplied them with water and food!

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>>14913088
And who cares about NUNS?


To be honest it seems Kawamori just doesn't give a fuck about Delta.

Fuck Macross Frontier
Fuck Macross Delta
Fuck moeshit
Fuck idolshit
SDF Macross is the best anime of all time

Why was Delta so boring?

>>14886816
Tomino tried to much
Kawamori barely tried

>>14913099
He probably fucked off to work on his next shitshow

>>14886816
They killed best boy Messer.

Delta a shit

>>14886816
Everything

>>14909412
Hayate never even shoots missiles. Ever. I guess he does this to avoid killing for Freyja which is nice but Macross NEEDS some fucking missiles. They could have compensated the lack of missiles with dancing but they forgot all about that too.

>>14915875

You know who else didn't shoot missiles? That's right.

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But they're cool.

>>14916668
Basara is basically Hayate and Freyja fused together.

No wonder why they're so boring.

>>14916992
slut

>>14887046
I did, sure the second half is weak but it was still moderately enjoyable and had some good moments. Plus I loved the songs

>>14916769
They were actually fun when they interacted together though.

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>>14915875
>Hayate never even shoots missiles. Ever.

So did Delta really become bad in like five episodes left or are people just being /m/ as usual and hate it because its new?

Or are they just all angry Miragefags who fought tooth and nail saying that she would win the Hayate bowl?

>>14918967
No one cares about shipping besides small bunch of /a/utists, Delta has shit writing, shit action scenes, and boring characters. And no spanish guitars.

>>14918975
Wait why were you expecting Spanish guitars?

>>14918967

I liked the show and the second half genuinely was a step down from the first half, which I really liked.

It's not shit, it's just when a show ends weaker than it began people always take that more badly than when a show starts out merely ok but finishes strong because final impressions matter.

>>14918982
Because he is shitposter.

I find it ironic that he mentions autists from /a/ when he was shitposting there almost 24/7 and also was a Miragefag.

>>14918982
Something something Ace Combat

>>14918967
I still like it, but second half really was worse off than the first half. I think the long road down started with Messer dying. Honestly, even as a Miragefag, I didn't really think she had a chance especially after episode, what, 16?

>>14918982
Ace Combat fans are a super autistic bunch.

>>14918992
What fag? Shipping is boring, shipping cardboards is even more boring.

>>14918967
I like Delta but the criticism is justified. No not the faggots that can't get over moe idol girls, the ones who complain about story and characters. Hayate was cool at first but his spotlight got stolen by Freyja, their lovely relationship was halted halfway through the second cour so Mirage can serve as triangle bait, Delta pilots are completely WASTED characters, NUNS and windies are unlikable idiots, most second cour episodes have absolutely nothing happening, the finale was rushed as fuck with little plot threads resolved, Immelmann Dance never makes a glorious return, they keep reusing Messer vs Keith animation for dogfights, etc. Delta isn't terrible but fuck it has some glaring issues.

>>14918997
Isn't it time to do your homework?
I was so annoyed by your 24/7 shitposting up until 1st of September when suddenly you started posting only few hours per day.

>>14919000
No, Delta is terrible because it has Macross name slapped on it while barely being such. Where are the fucking missiles?

>>14919004
Well, not being a NEET has its disadvantages. Now take your pills.

>>14919011
Nah. I just remember you talking about what Macross should be when you probably barely turned 20 and a complete newfag by this board's standards.

>>14919027
Who cares, I enjoy getting replied for no apparent reason because Macross has the most autistic fanbase period.

>>14919035
You don't even try to deny it.

>I enjoy getting replied
It's funny to hear it since you actually reply to every single post addressed to you. Your word is always last. It's just that painful burning feeling in your ass which never lets you leave the thread. You were always the biggest reply generator in Delta threads. And you will reply to this post too while I will just hide this conversation.

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>>14919006
Watch the show

>>14919059
Watch? /m/ watch? No /m/ shitpost, not watch.

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>>14919059

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>>14919062

>>14918890
All he does is take out a bunch of turrets with those big missiles. Where are the tiny ones that fly by the hundreds? Does he ever kill any canon fodders after episode 6? God, even in the finale, all he ever does is kill drones but never any of those mindcontrolled windniggers.

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>>14919067
He killed some in the final episode. I don't have a webm of it.

>>14919071
Oh wait nevermind he does in this webm.

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As promised on /a/ yesterday here are raws of Freyja's manga volume 1:
https://mega.nz/#!k00mHY5L!S-UUj08sN967Zq-fHeIUIPbwi25sapYmInZQWxjl4xw

It was a lot of effort for me and cost a fortune to order it from Japan via proxy services, pay for shipping, go through customs, then buy scanner, remove pins on manga to separate pages, scan every page, then crop, resize and clean images to get the best output ever. So maybe someone here will translate it. Or someone knows a person who likes Macross and would like to translate it. Or person who knows person and so on.
I will try to post this link on /a/ whenever Delta thread pops up there.

>>14920826
i remember you

thank you anon

>>14920826
Thank you Anon, you do God's work.

>>14920826
We appreciate you, based anon.

>>14886816
Absolutely Everything!

>>14919071
i like

>>14919064
Why do the nameless grunt's always have to live the hardest lives?

Haven't watched the series so if this is a named character getting unceremoniously killed, that's even worse than what they did in 7.

Getting a little tired of the art consisting of only Walkure members but not the Delta pilots. I mean fuck, they even have those two former members of Walkure.

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>>14927225
Shit forgot the pic.

>>14927226
sluts

>>14893838
Rail Wars has some good heroines though.

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>>14927226
>Santa will never give me a Fre-Fre for christmas, no matter how hard i wish

it hurts

>>14927226
Also, what's up with the fucked up proportions? Why are Freyja and Reina as big as the adult Walkure members?

>messer will never deliver your pizzas

>>14887046
It's better than Frontier desu

>>14928875
Proportions are fine. Freyja is 154 cm, Mikumo is 165. But Freyja is sitting on her knees and it adds her ~10 cm.

>>14913108
Amen.

Tell me I'm not crazy for thinking that a love triangle between Hayate, Freyja and Mikumo would have been far more interesting than the "triangle" we got with Hayate, Freyja and Mirage?

>>14920826
thanks

>>14887060
But it is the spawn of satin.

>>14929306
Mikumo was mediocre as a solo character. It might have been better if it was a story about Freyja choosing music over Hayate, imo.

>>14929459
>no HayaFre
Fuck off.

>>14886816
mexican gang happened.
build wall.

>>14886816
shit. not even worth replying

have a sage

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Minmay

Delta leaned too much into being a Macross series, then had executive meddling issues. The concepts within were all workable and could be used to great effect, but the second half gets stuck. Theres an alternate universe out there with a version of Delta that, with no change to base premise, components, or characters, is a legit 10/10 show. We just don't live in that universe.
In this one, Delta is just bland and forgettable.

>>14918994
>>14918967
While Mirage's development is pretty bad(though also most of Delta characters development are bad), let Mirage winning the triangle would just made it worse.
So while her development is part of the reason that made Macross Delta bad, but that's nothing to do with she lose or win the triangle.

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Bogue seeing his home burning down. This is how his mom and two of his sisters died.

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>>14934109

>>14934109
Ranka saw her parents being killed by space bugs. Yet she didn't become annoying idiot with hateboner for space bugs.

Bogue was a mistake.

>>14934116
Which is why she was also annoying and everyone hated her. She ditched her friends for her insect rape cave.

>>14934140
I wouldn't mind if Bogue left his friends for Walkure rape cave. People would call it cliche, but fuck them, I like that shit.

Instead Bogue was 'single joke' character till the very end.

>>14934148

It's more than Theo, Xao or Master Hermann had at least.

>>14934148
The Knights in general should have defected when Keith learned his brother was getting hurt, but he didn't do shit.

Ranka is still an insufferable cunt by the way.

>>14919006
>Where are the fucking missiles?
Jesus Christ, go back to TVT, you mouth breathing retard.

>>14934116
Ranka was even younger than Bogue here, and a few years like that make a difference. Also, she had amnesia and could communicate with Vajra. Pretty different situations.

>>14934211
>and could communicate with Vajra
I'm pretty sure Bogue could communicate with Walkure too.

>>14933929
As much as I like Freyja and her thing with Hayate, Mirage should have been our MC. She could have been a good mix of both Hikaru and Max, being the ace pilot who falls in love but tragically loses her desired one to another girl.

>>14934237
>a Macross series with a female protagonist
Can you imagine the asshurt from this board?

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>>14934242
I think they'd only be asshurt if it was yurishit. I would be as well if that were the case.

So now that the dust has settled, an we all agree that Delta was a failure?

>>14934387
It had good parts and it sold well, so no. Just incredibly disappointing.

>>14934267
>I think they'd only be asshurt if it was yurishit.
Nigger you know they'd bitch no matter what.
>I would be as well if that were the case.
>wah bloo hoo muh self insert
Cuck.

>>14934405
>wah bloo hoo muh self insert
>Cuck.
I don't get how she would be a self insert if most of us are men.

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Shinigami Draken. She's a babe.

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>>14935905
>Hnnnng

>>14886816
I was going to say that the only good thing from Delta were the new mecha designs and AXiA.

Also:
>VF-31A best gurl.

>>14934400

It's selling about 9k a volume and that average might drop if the last two volumes sales drop like the rest have. That's pretty average, and not really what I'd call good as such.

>>14935905

Would look so much better without the tramp stamp.

>>14936124
Just because it isn't a phenomenon like Frontier doesn't make it bad, anon. I say this because when it comes to sales, they'll always mention Frontier.

It doing well.

>>14936230

And just because it's selling around the same mark as a lot of other anime doesn't mean it's doing well. Meeting the same sales as a lot of other works, but not doing exceptionally good or exceptionally bad by their mark means you're doing average. The music sales are more important than the home media sales anyway, and I've no idea how those are doing.

>>14936230
That thanks to Macross brand.
With the brand it will sold 1500 average max.

>>14936607
Without*

>>14934237
Sometimes i wonder will it work if they decide make a Mirage spin-off.
It can take place in Windermere, shortly after the ending of Delta, story will be about Mirage back to NUNS and representative them to try make a peace agreement with Windermere and maybe deal with part of Windermere armies that refuse to end the warfare.

Oh well it won't be just spin-off of Mirage, it will be also spin-off of Windermeres, aka group of characters that being wasted.

>>14886816
The audience.

>>14886816

Modern anime writers either don't know or don't care to provide payoff for any of their buildup.

The most basic principal of good storytelling is 'make promises to the audience, and then keep them'. Chekov's gun is the way people are usually taught this: if I show you something, its because it will be important somehow. If there is a gun on the stage in the first act, expect someone to get shot by the end of the third.

Delta was good at giving us "stuff", but it didn't seem to understand that all that "stuff" came with price tags that they were going to have to pay off someday.

So we get to the end and all that stuff is just meaningless garbage. Delta and Walkure never meaningfully impact the plot. They are just as much an observer as we the audience are, as Windemere does Windemere things for Windemere reasons and with Windemere results, and any attempt to interact with Windemere's plot is met with failure or "that was my plan all along, you see".

Good worldbuilding, good character designs, good mechanical designs, wasted characters and absolutely horrifyingly bad plot writing in the second half.

This is the same curse that keeps fucking killing mecha. Gundam, Macross... even original works like AZ and Captain Earth. Anime writers in the past ten years simply don't know how the fuck a plot works anymore. That, or they are banking on otaku already being invested in the blue rays before the final episodes air so it doesn't matter if the story is shit by the end, they already got their otakubucks.

Either way its infuriating.

thanks to delta there will never be another macross

>>14886816
Banked too hard on idol culture. Drove out the mecha crowd.

>>14936806

People need to stop saying this. It just proves you never watched the show.

I don't even like idols, but the idols are not what made Delta bad. The writing was. With a shitty plot and largely boring fight scenes (a few standouts nonwithstanding) the music was the only good thing about the show for a long time. The fact that they stopped introducing new songs in the last third of the show brought the quality down even lower than it otherwise might have been.

>>14936698
That's a lot of text to say nothing and be wrong

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>>14936891

>>14936303
>Meeting the same sales as a lot of other works
>lot of other works
Do you know how many TV mecha anime after Frontier sold more than Delta?
1) 00 s2
2) Infinite Stratos (and that's hardly mecha)
Calling Delta's sales average is being delusional.d.

>>14936996

Putting aside that if it's average sales are about 9k then G-Reco at the very least will have outsold it, why would anyone only measure it against other TV mecha anime given that's not what the people paying for it will be measuring it against? There's probably a dozen or more TV anime that sold more than it this season alone.

>>14937012
>G-Reco at the very least will have outsold it
>There's probably a dozen or more TV anime that sold more than it this season alone
I see you're pretty ignorant about anime sales.
So far Delta is easily outselling G-Reco. And so far there are total of 4 anime (out of more than 100) this whole year that sold more that Delta.

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Delta and F are for faggots and weebshits

>>14937030

G-Reco sold an average of 9k. Marcross Delta has above that at the moment (11k), but (1) it's initial volumes included concert tickets or whatever they're called and the sales per volume are dropping because of it and (2) it's only part way through its release, at 4 volumes of 5 or 6, so that average will drop.

Also, while some of them sold more on DVD because it was the dominant format at the time, Gundam SEED, Destiny, Fumofuu, Tiger & Bunny and at least a few other mecha anime sold more than 11k on looking, while Love Live Sunshine, the latest Monogatari show and This Wonderful World or something are clearly outpacing it at the moment by thousands of sales while another half dozen or so are likely to have about the same sales.

>>14937086
No, you're not ignorant, you're retarded. Ignorant person would try to lurk more when being called out. Average will obviously drop but Delta will still be only slightly below 10k and will easily outsell G-Reco. Every Delta's volume so far is outselling corresponding volume of G-Reco. Take the latest volume 4 for example:
Delta: 9,784
G-Reco: 8,099 (and that's with extended rankings which are not available for Delta)

>Gundam SEED, Destiny, Fumofuu, Tiger & Bunny
>this season
>this year
>after Frontier
You wot m8? Only T&B was after Frontier, but while power suits are /m/ it's extremely old debate if they are mecha. So there were still only 2 mecha TV anime after Frontier that sold more than Delta.

>while another half dozen or so are likely to have about the same sales.
I'll repeat myself again.
So far there are total of 4 anime (out of more than 100) this whole year that sold more that Delta. And I'm not entirely sure if this season will change this.

>>14937079
So everybody on /m/ then. Good.

>>14886816
What went wrong? >Robotech

>>14927226
You know if you don't pay attention mikumo looks like a midget!

>>14887046
Better then edge of shit! A LOT BETTER!!!

>>14936648
I'm still pissed by how wasted she was. She was actually very fun in the first episodes but then she stopped being hot headed and instead became all sad and crying and depressed and bad at love.

>>14937086
>>14937171
I don't even know what's the point of talking about sales when it doesn't change the fact this show overall turns bad and the good parts are wasted.