Who wins?

Turn A

>>14821185
no contest

Possibly.

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>>14821185
This guy

>>14821185
We can assume the Turn A has psychoframe within it because it was meant to be an end all development of previous mobile suits

>>14821185
moustache mecha has serious chances of being the dominant one. Moustaches are manly

>>14821185
>Who wins?

The guy on the left.

Obviously Turn A, it has Moonlight Butterfly and is literally powered by a black hole right

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>>14821185
The better question is whether the Qan T can beat the Turn A.

>>14821833
I fucking hate that suit

Turn A is an NT-use unit, meaning it has psycommu. That means Unicorn NTD-rapes.
>>14821749
Um...no.
First of all, the Turn A is a copy of the Turn X, not the "end all development of all previous mobile suits". The ForAll in the show's title refers to all previous shows, not all previous MS tech. Unless you'd care to point out where Turn A used an Incom, an Adzam Leader, Wings Of Light, Heat Rod, Trans-Am, or any number of other systems that it clearly doesn't have.

There's no evidence that psycoframe was ever duplicated again after Unicorn. It certainly wasn't present in 0123UC or 0153, why would you expect it to be present in 8000UC? All indications are that it's a lost technology.

>>14821892

Turn-A is only newtype use according to fluff, not the show itself, which never says anything about it's origins or uses beyond Gym claiming it's the X's older brother. The assumption it must have psycommu of some kind is also spurious, since even if it is a newtype suit there's no reason to assume it works via that technology and that the technology for newtype stuff hasn't moved on in the last few millenia.

All of which is kind of besides the point, given that Frontal used his psycoshard to destroy all psycoframe based weapons on the Unicorn and Banshee - but that's not to say that that's all it can do. He also used it to see the memories of the universe. It's basically a do anything field.

The Unicorn doesn't have a psycoshard though, it has psycoframe and that can only be used to do such extraordinary things under extraordinary circumstances. Amuro only pushed Axis away because of a resonance between his suit and Chars under the combined will power of a lot of people concentrating on one thing. Similarly Banagher couldn't become a God on his own or block a colony laser on his own. He and Riddhe had to combine their suit's shielding to block the colony laser and even then it only worked because Banagher had a peptalk from a newtype ghost in the form of Marida. Said peptalk also allowing him to become more than with the machine and push the psycoframe beyond it's normal limits.

So unless the pilot of the Unicorn has access to such extraordinary circumstances the Turn-A would win, since it doesn't need extraordinary circumstances to do insane stuff.

>>14821833
No one knows

>>14821995
Im pretty sure Turn A had conditions for its plot armour, Wasnt the beast mode awakened by the Turn X?

>>14822333
what beast mode?

Moonlight Butterfly gets stopped by Amuro and the psychoframe, so I'd assume Unicorn fares the same or better.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hDKSW1xFb2U

>>14822375
Crossover games aren't canon other wise we get some amazingly stupid bullshit.

>>14821995
>t doesn't need extraordinary circumstances to do insane stuff.
Such as....it's rifle falling apart?
Washing clothes?
Transporting cows?

With the sole exception of the Moonlight Butterfly, the Turn A does absolutely nothing to put it on par with the maneuverability or power of the Unicorn. All the really cool shit about it comes from that fluff you just dismissed. If you're going anime-only, it has a beam rifle, an I-Field, and a cow.

>>14821885
Quan[t]a is great you faggot

>>14822476
it had enough thrust to push back a battleship

>>14822476
>>14821995
im pretty sure turn x is more advanced then a. i mean its just a punch of funnels

why is turn x a "concept" and turn a is a "system".

>>14822476

I'm pretty sure you haven't seen Turn-A if you think that's true. For a start, it's gut has a pair of cannons that fire a beam in a funnel shape in front of it which grows to about a dozen times the size of the Turn-A itself. It can turn invisible, power battleships and shield against radiation. It also tanks upwards of 50 shots from the Turn-X's bloody siege at one point, just one shot of which can disable other suits like the SUMO. And displayed a high degree of speed and maneuverability in the last few episodes of the show when facing off against the Turn-X.

The rifle fell apart because it's an external weapon that hadn't been used, maintained or connected to the Turn-A and it's nanomachines for centuries.

The Moonlight Butterfly is by far it's mist powerful weapon as well as one of the most versatile systems in the franchise, but it isn't the only thing it has, even in the animation. It also doesn't need extraordinary circumstances to use, like the psycofield does. Anyone can use it, and several people do.

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>>14821833
>>14821185
The real question is which suit has the best AESTHETICS.
No, but seriously, which one? I love the smoothness of the ELS Qan[T].

>>14822591
the answer would be unicorn mode if it had some of its ver ka decals in the animation.

>>14821892

>an ancient NT-D system is superior to a reverse engineered alien mecha that never even taps its full potential in series

lol

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>>14822603
>Unicorn mode
I'm torn, but I cannot deny your good taste.

>>14822573
>For a start, it's gut has a pair of cannons that fire a beam in a funnel shape in front of it which grows to about a dozen times the size of the Turn-A itself.
It's just a beam scattering cannon. The drawback of expanding in size is that it was like a rain of beam pellets, each one being fairly weak.

>>14822573

Oh, and I suppose I should add that while the dismissal of fluff may make it weaker and even lose to other units, I'd still prefer to discuss it without invoking the fluff personally. Or at least discuss it while making a distinction between the unit in manuals and games, and the unit as shown in the animation.

>>14822485

It probably is. Aside from being assembled out of 8 independently operable sections that do not require a newtype to control it can syphon the energy from other suits and even other people, since Gym starts draining the Turn-A and it's pilot Joseph when he captures them in the second to last episode. Gym also says it can act as a control for the Keilas Guilie (weapon in Victory) at one point, if that's worth something to you.

It's implied to be weaker than the Turn-A in some respects though, since while it's cannons couldn't even damage the Turn -A despite repeated rapid fire, one shot from the Turn-A's stomach cannons destroyed the Turn-X's backpack, and presumably would have destroyed the rest, if Gym hadn't hidden underneath said backpack and sacrificed it.

Gym may just have not wanted to destroy the Turn-A when using the bloody siege though, so the shots may have been underpowered in some fashion.

>>14822630
well like this anon pointed out >>14822521
turn x could just be a unfinished product

>>14822603
>>14822611
Unicorn is garbage regardless of being in Gundam or Unicorn mode.

>>14821503
muh nigga

>>14822651

It very well could be. Even the fluff doesn't give any account of it's purpose or status - only that it was found drifting at the edge of the solar system. I think it confirms that the newtypes who left built it too, but definitely doesn't go in to what kind of unit they regarded it as.

>>14822630
>It's implied to be weaker than the Turn-A in some respects though, since while it's cannons couldn't even damage the Turn -A despite repeated rapid fire, one shot from the Turn-A's stomach cannons destroyed the Turn-X's backpack, and presumably would have destroyed the rest, if Gym hadn't hidden underneath said backpack and sacrificed it.
I don't remember when Gym fired beams directly at the Turn A, can you tell me?

It's worth noting that earlier when Joseph sniped at the Turn X's backpack, it did project a thick layer of moonlight butterfly nanomachines to block the beams. In the case of the backpack being destroyed by the Turn A's belly beam cannons, Gym intentionally let it blow up as a decoy. Joseph saw the smoke and assumed that he had defeated Gym, while Gym used that moment to taunt and then trap Joseph. The backpack was useless because Gym had already used up all of the weapons that the backpack was carrying.

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>high end mid uc suit being able to defeat ultimate cc suit
lol

>>14822873

It's about episode 45. I can't remember the exact episode,but it's when Loran abandons the Turn-A because he panics when under the bloody siege. The unit itself is fine, but he detaches the core fighter and scarpers.

Also, while the unit may be able to bolster it's defence with the use of Moonlight Butterfly the point is that one shot from the Turn-A destroyed part of the Turn-X, while dozens of shots from the Turn-X didn't damage the Turn-A at all and it didn't appear to be bolstering it's defence either. You can theorise that Gym underpowered the shots, but theory is all it is since there's nothing to indicate that happened. It's just a possible explanation for the difference in power if you're looking for one. The same guns completely vaporise one unit (Sweatson's Mahiroo) and completely disabled two SUMOs with one shot a piece though.

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>>14822896
>It's about episode 45. I can't remember the exact episode,but it's when Loran abandons the Turn-A because he panics when under the bloody siege. The unit itself is fine, but he detaches the core fighter and scarpers.
Oh, I see. I saw it as Loran relying on the Turn A's I-field defenses to protect itself. You can see that the beams being shot at the Turn A seem to be somewhat deflected as they're being twisted and landing -around- the Turn A instead of on it, there's a bit of a curvature that suggests an I-field and that some of the shots aren't hitting the Turn A itself.

>the point is that one shot from the Turn-A destroyed part of the Turn-X, while dozens of shots from the Turn-X didn't damage the Turn-A at all
My point is that Gym intentionally let it be destroyed, so that shouldn't be taken as an example of "definitely weak". In the same episode, they showed that Gym can raise a protective barrier if he wants or not. The material that the suits are made of isn't that special, considering that the Turn A has been dented before by physical impacts and the Turn X has "battle scars that are too deep to repair". After all, both suits were able to deal critical damage to each other by stabbing each other at the end of their final duel.

>>14822941

I always took it as the shots showering harmlessly off the unit and being splashed around it because they're not penetrating and have to go somewhere. Some of those shots look like they directly impact the unit and are touching it. That's another good explanation though.

As to Gym, I know he CAN raise a barrier and increase defence to make it unlikely to be destroyed, but when he didn't the unit was just destroyed. Versus the damaging reverse where nothing appears to happen - though you've definitely raised a point that there may be a barrier there. I'm pretty sure there's an effect when Loran uses the Turn-A's i-field earlier in the show to indicate it's active though and will have to check it out now that you've raised the possibility.

>>14822881
G-Self > Turn
Phenx = G-Self with Perfect Pack

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>>14822956
Your arguments have merit too, I guess we just saw different effects when we were looking at the same scenes.

I-field effects appear and don't appear as needed. Sometimes the field itself is invisible, but only impacts will show that there is a field. Other times when I-fields are being projected, there's whitish or even yellowish "auras" to show that there's some sort of force or energy (otherwise the machine would look silly striking a pose while emitting what looks like nothing). Like when Harry Ord and the Sumo team try to capture the Turn X, those yellowish projections seem to match the yellowish aura around the Turn A being bombarded by beams in >>14822941, which to me suggested I-field shenanigans.

>nice, smooth looking futuristic robot
Vs
>Overcluttered clusterfuck

>>14823185
>smooth looking futuristic robot
Mead's style screams "1970's future". It's like the Jetsons or 50's sci-fi with glass bubble cockpits.

It also has the absolute dumbest cockpit placement in Gundam history. There's a reason armored vehicle drivers sit *inside* the armor.

>>14823237

There's also a reason military aircraft don't. And mobile suits are more like jets than tanks. The Turn-A is the only unit with that configuration as well as far as I recall.

>>14822446
Like SEED Destiny's characters and plot being written properly?

>>14821995
The Unicorn is still much better armed and armored,really. It will pound a Butterfly-less Turn A into the ground.

>>14823237
Uh i think you missed the part were he is sitting at the lowest possible point to the centre of mass and the middle of the suit, it honestly would cancel allot of the motion sickness and shaking getting stuck in the head or torso would do to you.

>>14824633

Unfortunately it does actually have it. And it is both an arm and an armor. So that it has a shield, an i-field and the Moonlight Butterfly as a shield to make three layers of protection before anything gets to the suit itself. And a rifle, beam sabers, missiles, cannons, and the all range attack Moonlight Butterfly as attack options. Saying "if it didn't have the thing that makes it powerful it would be powerful, it wouldn't be powerful" is a rather empty statement. I might as well say if the Unicorn didn't have a do anything button it'd be a rather average suit, even in it's full armor mode, and that no-one would care about it's strength except for that one thing.

>>14822982

The SUMOs only have the arm mounted I-field generator don't they? I finally got around to comparing a few scenes where either an I-field is used or where the Turn-X uses it's bloody siege cannons and when Gym takes down Harry and Poe's SUMOs the same splashing effect is visible, though without that slight yellow glow that could indicate a barrier in use. And while Harry does have the arm mounted generator, Poe doesn't. And Harry doesn't seem like he's using it, though it may not be explicit. Both units are taken out of commission though, even if neither is destroyed. And there's even a little bit of a bubble like shape to some of the splash when the cannons are hitting them. When Gym destroy's Sweatson's Mahiroo though, there's a bit of yellow glow and I really doubt he had an I-field. Never mind that his unit is taken out almost instantly.

On the other hand, when Loran uses the I-field to protect the field hospital in episode 22 it has a large radius and sends the WaDom's beam cannon shot splashing out in a much more scattered manner. It's a much more spectacular and obvious thing. If he uses it in episode 45 it almost seems to work in a much different manner since it doesn't diffuse the shots nearly as much, just splashing them out in a very close proximity.

It's a really weird thing, because while I hadn't ever considered it might be because of the I-field before due to the difference in animation I do agree that it simply makes more sense given the fact it was physically damaged from a much simpler hit before and both it and the Turn-X can damage each other evenly using beam sabers later in the show. The difference in animation between the I-field's definite use in episode 22 and possible use in 45 along with similar effects being observed on other units the Turn-X uses it's cannons on makes me kind of doubtful all the same though. I really don't know what to think now that you've mentioned it and I've taken a quick look at the episodes.

Oh well.

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>>14824904

Here's caps of the moments I'm referencing by the way, to save you checking the episodes. Apologies for the low quality, I've yet to upgrade my rips to blurays and must get on that at some point.

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>>14824941

You can see a kind of bubble shape that's pretty consistent through out the scene here as well. I should probably just learn how to make webms so that it's easier to demonstrate.

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>>14824946

And the slight yellow glow I mentioned during the Mahiroo's destruction. Which seems to be coming from the Turn-X's guns itself, rather than the units. Despite not being present during the take down of the SUMOs.

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>>14824948

Oh, and this seems vaguely pertinent too. It's a cap I found when going to post these. I'm not even sure what episode I took it from, since it's probably a year or more old. I think it's the one where the militia tries to disrupt Dianna (really Kihels) speech in front of the Soriel. I think that's about episode 20 off hand. Regardless, the SUMO appears to have an in built field of some that deflects attacks. Which is weird, since again, I'm pretty sure it's supposed to only have an arm mounted barrier and it's definitely not using it there.

>>14822573
>The Moonlight Butterfly is (...) one of the most versatile systems in the franchise
How? All it ever did was disintegrate everything around it. It's horribly unwieldy.

desu the Unicorn would probably kick the living shit out of the Turn-A unless the Turn-A used Moonlight Butterfly.

It is not that powerful a suit minus that feature. It was crippled by a heavy blow to it's head.

>>14824956

I just checked and I can't seem to find that moment from episode 17 or 18, both of which have battles in front of the Soliel - with 18 being that episode I mentioned where Kihel gives a speech as Dianna. I've no idea where it's from.

>>14824984

It functions as a shield, as a close range weapon by cutting (when it destroys Corin's custom Kapool for instance - which is even faster and cleaner than most beam weapons off memory), as a distance weapon by simply eating stuff, as a means of propulsion by forming wings that allow the units to fly at high speed and with good maneuverability. And it can also just disintegrate everything. The only other system in the franchise that offers offense, defence and utility off the top of my head is GN engines. It's very far from unwieldy and is used by several people (Joseph, Merrybell, Gym and Loran) for a variety of purposes, often quickly and localized.

>>14825017

Oh, the Wings of Light count too. So that's 3. The DG cells probably count too, making 4.

I think it's also worth noting that the I-field on the SUMO and Turns isn't just unusual in that it works on physical objects as well as energy and can be used as a stasis field because of it - it's also unusual because it's powered by the pilot's stamina. The Moonlight Butterfly may be as well.

When Midgard orders the Gendarme to fire on forces near the Winter Palace in episode 44 Harry uses his I-field to stop some of it, then asks Loran for help. At which point Loran uses what looks like a Moonlight Butterfly powered barrier, since it has a similar pattern to it - the characters in show describe it as a curtain of light. Afterwards Harry's SUMO seems rather sluggish in it's movements, but does fly up and dispense the Queen's justice on Midgard after pausing for a second. Harry explains to Kihel at the beginning of the next episode that the reason he was so tired and had to rest up is that the I-field works off the pilot's stamina and that he's sure the same is true of the Turn-A. And that he's sure it's a dangerous machine because the barrier it was able to produce was so big, and Loran a good or dangerous pilot because he made such a large barrier and didn't notice anything. He explains it as once the pilot sits in to the machine they effectively become one with the machine.

Which makes me wonder what would happen if you hit the I-field with enough ordinance and whether it's impenetrable so long as the pilot has enough stamina to keep going or what. And if the Moonlight Butterfly is powered off the same system and works off the pilot's stamina. Gym produces a similar curtain of light in the final episode that covers the whole visible sky for miles around. It doesn't seem to be innately destructive, so it may not be part of the Moonlight Butterfly, but it certainly has a similar effect, so it probably is - just a different use of it or something.

How the fuck were Turn A mecha so detailled?
The animation is derpy for the first few episodes and then it just stay consistently awesome throughout the show.

>>14821185
Bad matchup. Turn A vs 00 Qan[T] makes more sense.

>>14828002
When you don't apply any shading whatsoever to most of the show, you can afford to draw extra lines

>>14828051

Turn-A does have shading though? You can see it in most of the screencaps in the thread. The ones with little to no shading also have a lot of light in the form of beams.

>>14821185
Turn A can just throw it's moustache as a boomerang and the psycoframe won't be able to counter such a move because it comes from the wills of the people

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>>14824643
I fucking love how the Turn A walks in the show

>>14823368
>shotsfired.gif

if we are just going off animations maybe unicorn can win.

otherwise BH turn-a shits all over it

>>14822591

>No kit
>Figure but limited release that I didn't manage to grab

Such a fucking beautiful design

>>14822375
>Moonlight Butterfly gets stopped by Amuro

You mean by the power of friendship

>>14824643
>lowest possible point to the centre of mass and the middle of the suit
I think you missed the part where the problem isn't the height of the cockpit, but the fact that it's out in front of the armor instead of inside it. Being at the hip is fine, it makes sense. Being in front of all the armor is unbelievably retarded.

>>14822478
No, the protaganist suits in 00 were ugly in general and the designs for the other suits were far superior

>>14821833
How can the QanT beat the Turn A?

>>14821749
It doesn't. It has a psycommu but no psychoframe, and as it's established by Unicorn that psychoframes can now literally grant wishes, Turn A can't win this fight at all. Unicorn can literally just look at Turn A and make it explode.

>>14821995
>All of which is kind of besides the point, given that Frontal used his psycoshard to destroy all psycoframe based weapons on the Unicorn and Banshee
He used it to perform the abstract act of removing their ability to fight, because he wanted to persuade them to see his point of view. The psycoframe grants wishes. Read the interview translations.

>>14829648
Teleport to next galaxy, come back and wreck it's ass?

>>14829686
Every time I've just managed to forget that Unicorn featured something that absurdly stupid, some thread reminds me of it.

>>14829686

I did anon. I pointed out what the psychshard did, while you pointed out what command he gave it and which resulted in what I said. Neither is any different, so you can get off your high horse.

>>14829692

Teleporting to the next galaxy in no way allows it to wreck anything. It might give it breathing room, but not a direct advantage. Teleporting a few meters or a few miles might, but it's not guaranteed and the Turn-A can do the same thing in effect.

>>14829648
>>14829692
>>14829855

Well, it's actually fairly arguable. It all comes down to whether or not ELS can assimilate the nanomachines that Moonlight Butterfly is made of. If so then the Qan T could probably beat it.

The whole ELS thing is a big part of why I don't like 00, it's such a fucking stretch of the imagination to think that an Alien Metal Hivemind Thing can sympathize with humans, and it's just a ridiculously OP thing to be able to turn anything into the same metal you're made of just by touching it. Like, where does that mass even come from? How the hell does that even make sense that you can just magically change the elemental composition of anything just by touching it? And why the fuck is this metal able to think?