Worst Macross yes/yes?

Plus exists

No. It's still easily better than Zero and 7.

>>14779334
If you seriously think that it's worse than 7 as fun as it is, Zero, or II, then you're retarded

>>14779345
If you think II is bad you need to return to /a/

>>14779345
Zero was the best entry in the franchise and I'll take 2 over the first series, Plus, Frontier, or even DYRL any day

>>14779384
>Zero
>the best

ayy fucking lmao, boss

Worst? No.

Most wasted potential? For sure.

>>14779334
Honestly I like it the most out of all of them. SDF and DYRL are both iconic and must-watch for mecha fans, but SDF has god-awful characters and DYRL is a fucking mess all around except for the end.
Plus is great but basically doesn't have a story.
7 is just 95% filler.
II is just bad.
Zero is meh.
Frontier is pretty damn good but the end was too much of a clusterfuck BIG BATTLE WOW ending for my liking. We already saw it in DYRL. Ok.

>>14779384
Please be joking.

>>14779337
Plus at least had good music and great dogfights, though.

Delta didn't have good...anything, really. It was the definition of mediocre

I love every Macross, deal with it. Yes, even II.

>>14779384
>Zero was the best entry in the franchise
Oh my god

>>14779334
SDF is good
DYRL is awesome
Plus is good (That fukin 2d dogfights)
7 is ok to good. Dynamite is ok.
Zero is ok.
Frontier TV is good
Frontier Movies are good if you've watched the TV series
Delta is terrible/bad.

>>14779334
>Worst Macross yes/yes?

Worst Macross Yes.
Had they advertised it as AKB 0048 Redux it would have been great.

>>14779709

It would still have been boring since Walkure didn't do much of anything past the first episode and the show just dragged it's heels for much of its episode order. Calling it something else wouldn't change that. If it wanted to be a good AK anise them Walkure would need to have continued battlefield concerts instead of just standing behind a shield while buffing Delta squad at the very least.

>>14779709
>Had they advertised it as AKB 0048 Redux
People would have rioted over the presence of male characters.

>Listening to the Walkure Trap album
>One of Reina's lines in Silent Hacker is "I'm gonna jack you hard"

I dropped it halfway through and never looked back

>>14779334
Freyja won.
Mirage BTFO.

still, it's pretty bad.

>>14780484
>Windy
>Best case she's dead in 10 years
>Winning

>>14779444
>Yes, even II.
you say it like II's the worst

>>14780484
Mirage being the better woman made delta ending truly bad

>>14780492
Considering she told Hayate that they're gonna fuck all the time, that seems like a win. Mirage will, at best, get some windy leftovers and deal with her husband's daughter.

>>14780939
>Considering she told Hayate that they're gonna fuck all the time

They dont even kiss

I mean come on

>>14781039

She gets embarrassed when he so much as looks at her rune despite the fact she publicly displays it at all times. She'd probably keel over from a heart attack if she even thought about sex.

>>14780939

The Jeniuses have history of adoption and huge families. That's a non issue

>>14781039
>>14781049
She told him "better be ready." Ready for what? Well considering that time, or lack of it, is important to Windies, she probably wants to do married stuff soon.

>>14781053
That's true. So maybe delayed, but good end for Mirage after all?

>>14780484
Can she really be btfo if even the show barely acknowledges the triangle, or that she was a character?

>>14779334
No. II and Zero is there. It's 3rd worst.

>>14779337
what'd you say 'bout my waifu?

and desu plus was great. it was pretty un-macross-like, but it was well done (apart from "I WAS THE MONSTER ALL ALONG", which i wish they would've somehow spun that differently). the dogfight were great, the music was great (some of it a bit overused/repetitive), the overall plot was reasonable and self-contained.

tldr great ova idk what your problem is with plus

>>14779407
i disagree with plus not having a story (or we are in violent agreement).

the thing with plus is that it's this small window into a particular incident in the macrossverse (actually, reminds me exactly like some of the gundam ova). unlike some of the main shows with galactic big bads and yuge extinction-level consequences it's just two test pilots having a hissy fit with each other over a grill and some ai that obsesses over one of them.

that's ok, it's still a real story. it's their story, it's nice and self-contained and perfect for an ova length.

Why do people dislike Zero? Do people not get it? It's a nature story about peace and harmony told through the lens of transforming fighter planes and it's genius. Easily the most visceral and striking of the Macross series.

On that topic, why do people dislike Frontier? It focuses hard on everything that makes Macross what it is and does it right. Great fights, great music, and one of the best written female characters in anime with Sheryl. Were people really that butthurt about Ranka or were they mad about the slice of life episodes in the beginning?

Delta is, at the point of conclusion, easily the worst Macross. 7 had stock animation and twenty five more episodes than it really needed but at least I was consistently entertained. Delta started out amazingly strong then went really downhill in the second half. The windys were shit, the fights turned to shit (when there actually was one), the plot turned to shit, a whole lot of threads never got resolved, and the finale spent like a quarter of it's airtime on people screaming each other's names while naked. It was bad.

>>14779334

Frontier was but this beat it with that terrible second half

>>14781446
I love Zero but I'm big hippy. Also why I love Kawamori.

>>14779396
it was though
>>14779408
>>14779446
no joking here

>>14781446

Frontier had a bad plot, Alto-hime and most of the cast were bland and uninteresting. It was a paint by numbers production it tried to check too many boxes to draw in viewers and sales. It had the worst VF designs of the whole franchise imo to boot.

>>14781446
>Why do people dislike Zero?
The same reason /m/ and normies hate the Aquarion franchise and Nobunaga The Fool: Unlike trash anime made by Ikuhara actual intelligence and thought with legit symbolism (not fan theory shit) was put into it.

>>14781476
>most of the cast were bland and uninteresting.
This I'll agree with, only good characters were Michael and Ai-kun

>>14781446

Because Zero pretty much sucks.
It's got the most pointless love triangle ever, that they might as well have not included, even worse than Delta's.

It's got one song, which is basically gibberish.

Every character is unlikable or generic. Roy could have been replaced by anybody else. Shin was a literally who in his own OVA. Sara is a total cunt.

Ending is basically Gainax-tier.

The plot was nothing brilliant or original. It was Dances With Wolves with robot planes and an alien.

Zero's one strength is sick dogfights. And it does deliver on the sick dogfights, but it's not enough to save it.

>>14781493
Those sick dogfights are nothing special if you were coming off from Yukikaze though.

>>14781510

yeah too bad a valkyrie didn't fly backwards and shoot a missile point blank

>>14781510
I expected much more from Yukikaze on dogfights. At least it delivers on the best love triangle ever.

>>14781529

Yukikaze was about sick maneuvers, not sick dogfights.

>>14779702
are we going to do this?
SDF is great
DYRL is great
II is good until the ending
Plus is good
7 killed all interest I had in the franchise
Zero is awful
Frontier TV never watched it
Frontier Movies never watched them
Delta take an educated guess based on 7 and frontier.

>>14779334
comparable to Robotech.. so yes

>>14779334

Just cross posting in case you guys want to see the art: >>147854706

Does anyone have a picture of that email that minmay sent out before she and Megaroad went into a black hole?

>>14779345
Zero and 2 are better than Delta because Zero+2 only wasted you 10 episodes time, while Delta wasted you 26 episodes.

>>14779334
I liked it more than Frontier

I don't even know what to say to those who thought the music wasn't at least in the top 3

>>14781075
>>14780939
If anything, Mirage will leave Ragna and find someone love her.
No point to waste 10-15 years for Hayate even she have long life span.

>>14780484
While i always prefer HayaFre(well, the plot clearly shows that, nothing else i can prefer), i also notice it seems Mirage always take care them.

So i start imagine, what if Mirage like >>14781696 said, leave Ragna and Xaos after Delta?
With how Hayate still being crappy in ending, sometimes i have feeling they won't end well without Mirage take care them, though i blame the writers for gave me this imagine.

SDF is great
DYRL is good
7 is ok
7D is awful
Plus is ok
Zero is good
F is awful
F movies are awful
Delta is good until the first half end, the final arc is awful.

>>14779338
>Zero and 7
Were both easily better than Delturd.

>>14782563

7 is better then F and D but its cool to hate on 7. Space aids and pika pika power are more acceptable then anima spiritia it seems.

>>14782742
7 is basically a sci-fi exorcism series where musicians sing to cast out space demons.

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I would say Zero but Delta isn't far behind. Too many of the fights being just fighter vs. fighter, music was meh at best with the sole exception of Ikenai Borderline, boring characters and the snails pace of the second half just made me lose all interest.
Only Macross I dropped. One day I might watch the final episode but not any time soon.
OVA focusing on Destroids when?

>>14779334
Not as bad as Zero. Just wasted potential.

>>14782788
The final episode feel kinda shitty to be honest, the moment they broke free from the Roid mindcontrol there was nothing to stop them

>>14782887

Yeah. There really needed to be some actual opposition. You have a protoculture station, release some defence drones or mind controlled NUNs pilots.

The one moment I honestly really enjoyed was Mirage deciding 'You know what? This is not the fucking time for beating about the bush. I love Hayate and if you don't admit you love him and save the day Freya I am going to shove my boot so far up your ass you taste leather'.

Now if only she'd shown that razor tongue and vitriol in the rest of the series, she'd be a lot more fun. Her teasing back and forward with Hayate came off more natural than the entire 25 episodes of previous stuff with her.

>>14783007

Addendum: Yeah, there was the mind-controlled Belkan mooks but they were a complete non-factor.

They needed something unusual, something with some ability to actually make the final battle feel tense. The belkan mooks were not a threat even before they got mind-whammied.

>>14783007
>>14783011
The Windermeme mooks were a joke anyway, Delta squad was already way over them in skill, and they got support of the Wing Knights making it onesided

>>14783017

Pretty much exactly my point. Once the mind control went away there wasn't really much to provide worry or any real drama.

Compare it to Frontier. The bugs were individually not a huge danger but they were established as something that could kill you if you fucked up and they were near endless. In addition there was a better, bigger macross-class enhanced with crazy cyborg tech.

Yeah, you knew the main characters would win but there was a tenseness about what could happen during that victory.

It also didn't really resolve Mirage's plot beyond 'Yeah, I'll show them I can fly without worry'. There was no climatic duels for anyone aside from the White Knight and even then, his duel was very very short.

>>14779334

Yes. For all the shit people give Frontier for having bland characters, at least Frontier's characters DID SHIT.

Delta's plot literally goes like this:

> Windemere gets salty about shit that happened during their war of independence, uses a mind control weapon to wage new war against numerically superior NUNS
> Takes over the globular cluster they are in without a huge amount of effort due to easy mind control
> uses ruins to expand their reach and power
> sets up to mind control the galaxy
> internal differences about how to use the mind control machinery among the windemeren cast
> Windemeren forces deal with this internal betrayal themselves and the windies go home, done for the day

You will notice how I was able to go through the entire overarching plot without having to mention the protagonists or their actions in any way. Thats because nothing any non-windemeren character did impacted the plot.

At the end of the day, Freya (a windemeren character) was what broke the mind control long enough for Keith (a windemeren character) to fly down and kill Roid (a windemeren character). The only thing any other race of character did to impact the plot was Hayate gave Freya enough feels to break the mind control. But Hayate himself never does shit. He kills no named characters, performs no important actions, stops nothing. He, like the rest of the cast, just spends the entire show flying around in circles waiting for the windies to do their thing and stall for time.

>>14783038
>>14783011
The show should have made Roid the elite windermere pilot superior to Keith, that way not only you could give Keith some sort of character outside "muh wind" but also give the final battle some tension (instead of grunts, now every windermere pilot is super elite and actually ties with the whole hivemind thing)

>>14783060
That's because the plot, no - the show itself - is about pushing the idol voice actress and music first and fore most, plot second.

This is why pretty much all main characters are as bidimensional as your typical idol anime and can be pretty much summed up by their transformation motto, or how the main conflict is solved by feels from the main heroine and music.

Original Macross had this one moment that punctuated a series all about their characters. Years later, it's all about that one moment with no substance or care for the characters. This alone makes this my least liked Macross.

>>14779406
Explain to me what potential did this show had because from episode 1 we got the tone, the theme and the characters that would go around and provide a pretty crappy show.

>>14780484
>Freyja
>A character
She was a named grunt.

>>14779334
If anything, Delta has redeemed the franchise by making up for the previous two installments

>Worst Macross Zero/Frontier

FTFY.

>>14782563
>Zero
>greater than anything

Seriously, it's tied with Frontier for worst installment.

>>14782742
>>14782782
I'm not entirely certain where Delta stands next to 7 just yet.

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>>14783180
>Delta has redeemed the franchise by making up for the previous two installments

>>14783182
its ok.

some people will always have shit taste. can't help it.

That's why there is always a difference between plebeians and kings.

>>14783228

Not him, but as someone disappointed in Delta I am genuinely curious what you find so remarkable about it. It has some good music, but as far as I can tell it dropped the ball almost everywhere else.

Can you tell me what you liked so much about it?

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Frontier still exists so Delta isn't the worst entry in the franchise. Though I'd still rank it about equal with Zero.

7 remains the best.

>>14779334
Its first half easily shat on all previous entries yet besides maybe Plus (which kind of lacked the time to screw something up) so I can't say Delta was THAT bad.
The cour extension shouldn't have happened and a movie wouldn't hurt, though.

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>>14783482
>Its first half easily shat on all previous entries

>>14780939
We need a picture of angry Mirage with a mini-Freyja going "don't speak to me or my husband's daughter ever again."

>>14783258
i was agreeing with him, and implying the other guy had shit taste.

but meh.

Delta has Mikumo. Thats about it. It could have had Mirage if she did anything, but its a bit unfortunate that she didn't.

>>14783680

Mikumo didn't really do a lot either. Episode one is her high point.

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>>14779334
Their tummies are cute. I want to watch this just to justify buying the figures.

>>14783688
She had the potential to be interesting, but it all just got pushed back to the back to promote idolshit and resolved in like literally one episode.

She was wasted in Delta, imo.

>>14779334
The only good thing Delta gave us was JUNNA period

>>14784466

The songs are all pretty great. It is a testament to Delta's quality songwork that there is not a single outright bad song in either album and at worst only a couple weak ones.

Also the Siegfried is totally sick and blows the Messiah out of the water.

>>14783073
Because out of the fuckhuge cast, only half of them (at best) got any development and even then it was miniscule for the most part unless their names were Hayate or Freyja

As cute as it was, there was too much HayaFre banter and not enough of anything else.

The dogfights were boring as fuck and were laden with stock footage. Songbuffs replaced any actual progression in terms of piloting skill. In terms of fighting, nothing ever really progressed after Messer died. It was just having a little fly around, shooting each other's missiles and then one side retreating for reason X/Y/Z.

Arguably, nothing happened before Messer's death either because it was just SHIROKISHI V SHINIGAMI ad nauseam.

>>14783071
The idols are the one redeeming factor about the show because everything else, apart from the design of the Siegfrieds and Drakens, was absolutely shit.

>>14783038
There was actually logical progression against the Vajra. They started off as a seemingly impossible to beat enemy and a struggle to kill. New tech was developed to overcome their natural armour and then they became a bit easier to kill. Then comes the threat of their hive ships and then Galaxy to top it off. Even NUNS mooks were capable of killing Vajra by the end of the series before getting deleted by drones.

The NUNS showed some nuance where you had most of Frontier's NUNS staff as being standard protagonist allies, Leon as the asshole evil/antihero and then Galaxy's NUNS branch on top of that. Delta just positions them as assholes and nothing but, save for the Voldor ace.

Even the campaign to retake the cluster didn't feel any different since it was still reliant on dancing in the sky with the Aerial Knights before fucking off. Nothing ever changed.

I wish Delta had another cour, because the large cast and lack of development could have done with it. But I'm glad it didn't, because nothing would have happened and I'd be even more disappointed.

>>14785021
>another cour
Or they could have used the second part of the show better, because it was full of episodes with nothing happening

>>14785038

The cast of Delta was so retard big with so many running plotlines that two cours was probably never going to be enough, and that was before the production changes.

>>14785038
Yeah, it's either/or, really. 2-cour would be fine if they could juggle the characters and episodes 12-23 or so actually had something happen. 3-cour would have been nice to actually give the time to really dedicate more time to the extended cast.

It's ridiculous that Mirage didn't even get a decent backstory episode. All she really got was a few Jenius references and two stills in the final episode where you see her childhood. Michael and Klan got more development in Frontier with that episode about Michael's sister in a blue-on-blue incident or whatever it was and it was actual character insight, rather than just doing a random task together.

Also, just to carry on from my last post, you actually felt a sense of progression with Frontier's campaign too. It starts off as a gleaming colony ship/fleet and over time, as the war progresses, things start to go to shit and they're forced into the final act. Delta was, again, the same shit on a different day, apart from the one episode where they launch the old colony ship and it's happy days after that.

>>14784986

You know what pisses me off?

Song buffs ruined the fights in delta by making shit really samey, and slowing down all the action into glowing slomo that killed the possibility of the fights being cool to watch. We also never really got a solid explanation for what the fuck was happening, WHY songbuffs worked or what it was about them that made you pilot better. It made the fights inexplicably more magical with no established rules for what was going on, and ruine the combat in the show in the process.

And then you know what they fucking do?

Song buffs don't impact the end of the show at all. None of this song buff shit was building up to ANYTHING. Song buffs never actually let Hayate do anything but wing enemy planes a couple times. They were a complete waste of everyone's time.

The show invested a LOT into the song buffs arc, and had to give up a lot of shit I thought was important to make room for it... and there was no fucking payoff for it at all.

>>14785166
>We also never really got a solid explanation for what the fuck was happening,
Sounds about right for Delta. It's like Hayate getting over his flipouts

>I promise I won't lose control again!
Summarily loses control and gets rescued by Mirage and Freyja
>I definitely won't lose control this time!

No explanation as to why, other than a wizard doing it.

Another thing I disliked about Delta's fights, again, was the lack of variation. It was always fighter mode criss-crossing and not much else. You compare that to Frontier's or Plus's dogfights and there's a good mix between each different mode throughout the fights and pilots are constantly changing. Any use of battroid or even GERWALK just feels like a token gesture in Delta.

Delta's not the worst. It's better than Zero and POSSIBLY 7 but that's not saying much. The mecha action sorely lacked battroid and gerwalk Immelmann dance, especially in the second half. I was hoping they would at least bring it back for the finale. I like full on fighter action as much as the next guy, but the only thing that kept me watching it weekly was Hayate/Freyja and the music.

>>14779406
>Most wasted potential? For sure.

Eh, I think Frontier still holds that honor seeing as how it was the first macross tv series in over a decade. Delta was still wasted potential though.

>>14779407
>but SDF has god-awful characters

I disagree, I think it has the strongest characters. Even unlikable kafun is intriguing in some way.

>People shit on Frontier when it ended saying it was the worst macross ever
>Delta finished
>Now people praise frontier and shit on Delta as the worst ever

NEVER CHANGE /m/!

>>14785321
/m/ hates everything.

>>14785321
The fact that a girl actually won in Delta's bittersweet ending made it so much better than Frontier's lol happy ending. Delta's final battle however could really use some work, it was rushed as fuck.

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Im kinda sad for Delta, because I saw many people having high hopes for it and then BAM it sucked.

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>>14779334
The songs were good, characters were better save one, the triangle was a lot worse, the fights were non-existent, and the overarching plot was dull compared to Frontier. They did nothing to make Space Belka likable except make all their pilots fuckbois while Roid's scheming amounted to little more than mind-controlling the galaxy. They made NUNS look indifferent and incompetent, but earlier conflict with the national governments of each planet would have been nice. They should have spent more time on the damage the Fold nuke did to the planet, food shortages, displaced refugees, infants with fucked up runes. They could have made a really strong point that along with their short lifespans, many born after the current Aerial Knights had serious birth defects thanks to fold radiation. It would also explain why they fight with a small elite squad.

Kawamori really doesn't have his priorities straight, but hey that's what sells these days. Seriously, not even a mid-season upgrade or any extended dogfights. Second half had a shit load of waiting around and sneaking-missions-that-prove-pointless-except-it-gives-a-chance-to-meet-the-enemy-face-to-face episodes but the finale still felt rushed. Nothing was resolved either.

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>>14783007
>>14782887
Good point, from the very beginning there was nothing in the galaxy that could fuck with the Macross Elysion. Kind of why the whole war with NUNS felt futile when we saw a fleet of fucking Macross Quarters descend on Windermere.

Seriously though, there were only two VFs the entire show. The Siegfried and Draken III. That is a tragedy.

>>14785785
Honestly it was Spess Erusea all along.

>>14785362
>it sucked
only for literal autists

Hayate could've totally battleroid-danced his way to Roid if GIRI GIRI AI was blasting through the galactic protoculture network

>>14785321
I still enjoyed Delta way more than Frontier, despite all the shit Delta could have done better.

>>14785334

A girl won in Frontiers end too though? Or did you take the "sky end" meme seriously?

Frontier series was a chore to watch. School setting, chasing panties, literal faggot MC. The movies were great because Alto was yaping about stupid shit and it removed the school setting. Delta isn't perfect but I don't know how anyone can put it below Frontier's series. Nostalgia runs strong I guess.

>>14785903
Meme or not, it was forced there as a cheap way of dragging on a hopelessly lost kove triangle. They basically said Sheryl was ahead of Ranka, but not past the finish line. At least here Freyja has clearly won. None of that ambiguity bullshit.

>>14780401

l... lewd

>>14785929
>School setting, chasing panties, literal faggot MC.
That was great for developing Sheryl. You just hate school settings without question, which I can empathise with.

Unlike others, I actually enjoyed Frontier at the time, liked it a bit less on hindsight, but compared to Delta on hindsight, it may as well have been a fucking masterpiece. Then again, I'm actually somewhat honest about things and as much as I enjoyed 7, don't see it as a 10/10 masterpiece because of the first ~20 episodes being somewhat stale and all the stock footage that was used; yet people here praise it as being absolutely flawleess and without problem.

Still, they used the spare episodes in Frontier far better than Delta. Stealth mission #2329048 which ends with another skirmish with Windemere and then one side making a hasty retreat was boring and played out.

>>14785929
>literal faggot MC.
Hayate isn't much better.

>YOU ARE MY WINGS
>LE BANTER MAN

He has about as much depth and character growth as Basara, but with no redeeming features at all, unlike Basara.

>>14786066
Wasn't the school only brought up in like 4 or 5 episodes, and only really featured in 1? The rest of the time it was just where Michel, Luca, Alto, and boob girl were before heading off to work at SMS. What do you expect from teenagers? Are they not supposed to go to school and have an education?

>>14785962

Alto and Sheryl are dating with several episodes and implied to have had sex by th ed finale anon. There's no ambiguity there. Ranka is still acting like she has a chance and doesn't want to give up, but Alto and Sheryl are the firmest couple in the franchise since they actually date during the show, where otherwise the couples just hook up in the finale.

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>>14786066
If it was great for developing Sheryl then why was it entirely cut in the movies? And what development? She's just a generic tsundere man.

Frontier series was pretty forgettable and like most Macross series it was filled to brim with stock footage. If you rewatch all the music sequences in the series, it was mostly the same valk animations with different backgrounds. Heck they reused that Vajra wall from the last episode in the movie with the same vajra animations and everything. Delta at least brought a lot of new information for the franchise as a whole by tying all the series together with the space muslim powerpoint. We even got to know about the Megaroad. It was a poor presentation but it was still something that will be remembered. Delta also broke the trend of the older girl winning.

Freyja > Sheryl


>>14786069
Hayate wasn't as wishy washy as Alto and had at least some development compared to Basara. Basara had no growth. It was people around him that changed due to him. That's what I liked about M7.

>>14779334
Has more plot holes compared to Frontier:
1) Who and why ordered/tricked Hayate's old man to drop the bomb - unresolved
2) Who lady M - unresolved
3) What Arab arms merchant angle - unresolved
4) No punishment on Windermere, racist supremacy pricks that turn people to zombies, they f*ckin deserved it.
5) Lack of proper aftermath/epilogue.

Seem likely Satelight is aiming to do a compile movies versions again, probably filing in some of the plot holes like previous Frontier and Aquarion series.
I find it hard to like Delta due to:
1) Hayate - he paled as MC compared to others. His character doesn't grow.
2) Windermerean - lousy as baddies.
3) Cool mecha but same attacks and recycled maneuvers over and over again. Until the last episode, only few new tricks pop-up, like swords and FAST/SUPER packs. They could pull this off in mid-season.

Few things redeemable:
1) Songs
2) Mere-cats
3) Messars, interesting character that is ill but still kick-ass.

>>14786122

Sheryl was probably the best female lead in the whole franchise. I think Frontier is overrated as fuck and Frontier TV was as much a chore to sit through as Delta, but Sheryl was the shining light of that series.

>>14786082
Pretty much, but it won't stop people from sperging out about it because there's a hint of life outside of love triangles and piloting valks.

Honestly the worst things about Frontier were Ranka, Alto, and that totally dropped Micheal's sister plotline.

I don't even remember the school.

>>14786140
>Pretty much, but it won't stop people from sperging out about it because there's a hint of life outside of love triangles and piloting valks.
Those people are those who are insecure and want to watch "mature anime", and feel that any anime featuring a school is beneath them. I wouldn't be surprised if those people are in fact underage and needed to act like emo adults.

>>14786125
>plot holes
It's called loose ends, you faggot. When will people learn the difference?
Imagine we have events A, B and C creating consequent plot ABC.
If for example B is missing (A_C) it's called plot hole. Because it's indeed a hole inside plot. It leaves viewer wondering how the fuck everything could go from A to C. Classic example: Kira's is caught by nuclear explosion (A), Kira is alive (C). Where the fuck is B explaining how he survived the blast?
But in your case the last part is missing. It's AB_. it's called unresolved plot line or loose end.

>>14786153
Sorta sounds like what happened to the Independent Playstation magazine, before and after it became official.

People really trying hard to outcontrarian each other in this thread uh.

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>>14786153
Yes because Macross has always been for the very mature audience. Not.

The school parts were unnecessary and took time away for anything more interesting. Yes lets see the same school SOL with the same transfer student trope for the millionth time. Thank god most of it was cut in the movie.

>>14786223
>The school parts were unnecessary and took time away for anything more interesting.
All the story Frontier need to tell was told. I have no idea what you are complaining about, was there missing story elements that needed more time?

On the other hand, there is no school in Delta, and yet it didn't benefit from its absence. Frontier did its job, Delta did not. Having a school in Frontier didn't make it a worse anime than Delta because the school didn't affect the plot in any negative way. The fact that you take the school elements personally didn't help your case to suggest that having school elements is a bad thing.

>>14786238
The fact that the movie took it out proves that it was unnecessary. Taking it out made it better hence why the movie was better and a more recommended watch. The typical HS angst was gone and the god awful pacing was improved. Simple.

>>14786276
>The fact that the movie took it out proves that it was unnecessary. Taking it out made it better hence why the movie was better and a more recommended watch.
No, if we just focus on what is "necessary" then majority of TV series anime are bad by that definition. The movie just condensed things, the fact that they cut the school scenes is not evidence that school scenes are bad. But if you actually believe this and not just trolling, I am not sure logic works on you. Just because I can't imagine what it is like watching every anime TV series in the world and complain that they should all be 2 hours long at maximum.

>>14786122
I agree with what you say about Hayate but c'mon now. Freyja is great but Sheryl is better. Sheryl is the ideal girlfriend. However, Hayate and Freyja are the ideal couple. Their relationship is incredibly fun and sweet.

>>14786105
>Alto and Sheryl are the firmest couple in the franchise since they actually date during the show, where otherwise the couples just hook up in the finale.
That just tells me how unecessary that ending was. Especially after Ranka says she won't lose at love, Sheryl actually takes that proposal seriously like she still hasn't won yet. SDF and Delta endings were better for the mere fact they don't shove down any ambiguity like we're stupid or something. Delta gets extra points because it was a really nice bittersweet end too.

>>14786859

> It's ambiguous and I'll find a way to maintain that it's ambiguous no matter what

The point of the ending isn't to be ambiguous, it's to push Ranka and Sheryl's friendly rivalry in all things. Sheryl accepted it because she accepted Ranka, not because the relationship was ambiguous in her mind.

>>14786276
Movie tend to build upon what you already know, both to save on time and because retreading is shit.

You wouldn't have the same appreciation of character without the bits that you think are unecessary.

It's like saying you should skip 99% of SDF because it doesn't feature in DYRL.

>>14786920
>The point of the ending isn't to be ambiguous
No, that was exactly the point of that ending and that's literally what Yoshino wanted to do. Sheryl was winning the whole series and then writer decided to make an ambiguous ending.
https://karice.wordpress.com/2016/07/31/p516/

>>14785800
>Seriously though, there were only two VFs the entire show. The Siegfried and Draken III. That is a tragedy.
And the VF-171, VF-22, VF-1EX, and VF-9 cameo.

Sure a lot of edgy kids in here that can't stand that Frontier was a fun series, and not serious boring trash.

Delta was somewhat fun for the first half, but the series was complete shit after Freyja's birthday.

>>14785785
i really like that drawing because it gives me a vibe of Tony Taka style.

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>>14786125
>Who lady M

>>14787222
Frontier wasn't really that fun. It was more melodramatic than anything. But it was pretty consistent.

Delta was fun for the first half then complete boring shit in the second. If Frontier was a consistent 7/10, Delta started off as an 8.5 and dropped to a 2.

>>14779334
>MFW people say Frontier is worse than delta.

I admit Frontier has some boring parts (which were fixed in the movies) but unlike Delta it had

>Interesting characters
>Good music
>Exciting battles
>Dank memes

Delta had a few interesting ideas, but it failed to deliver anything of substance. It was like the boring parts of Frontier for the entire show, and topped off with a rushed ending and final battle that just half-assedly copies the final battle of Frontier, which itself was a (good) copy of DYRL's final battle.


How to write the ending of a macross show.

>Reveal that the bad guys were being manipulated the whole time. There are no legitimate reasons to go to war in Macross, only misunderstandings and manipulation.
>The good guys and bad guys team up to take on the real enemy, because don't kid yourself, we're still solving our problems with violence here.
>Because this would be a boring fight otherwise, some of the badguys are being directly controlled and are still fighting. This allows the heroes to still be hopelessly outnumbered even after making friends with half of their former enemies.
>The big bad also has a huge battleship which must be destroyed.
>PEW PEW PEW PEW!
>The Macross is surprisingly evasive and only takes superficial damage from the enemy's cannons.
>A dogfight happens somewhere.
>The Macross punches a hole in the enemy battleship, remember when this used to happen like, all the time in SDF? Well now it's only used in final battles.
>The hero flies in and takes out the villain before flying off into the sunset.
>Resolve love triangle in the most disappointing way possible.

>>14787281
>Interesting characters
Ya blew it

>>14787290
More interesting than Delta.

I admit, I liked Hayate better than Alto at the start, but as somebody said before, they never did anything with him. And the supporting cast was full of nobodies.

>>14787206
Really? I only remember the VF-1EX and VF-9 cameos. Oh yeah NUNs had VF-171s and VF-22s whenever they needed fodder for the Aerial Knights.

>>14787297

there was only 1 vf-22 that was special forces only and crashed by arad

>>14786125
>2) Who lady M - unresolved

it's pretty much all but explicitly stated that lady M is minmay

>>14787315
Which is TOTALLY FUCKING BULLSHIT by the way.

>>14787315
>all but explicitly stated
So you mean to say that it is UNRESOLVED? Gee, you sure showed him!

>>14786926
Well you should, because DYRL are the canon events since it introduces a ton of stuff with the Protoculture, makes Hayate x Misa logical, and has better animation. SDF is literally trash-tier.

>>14787281
>interesting characters
Only character I people ever cared about was Sheryl.
>good music
Frontier's Sheryl only had a few memorable songs while Ranka had none. At least 3 of Delta's idols had good solos and the group altogether had some pretty great songs. Rune pika beats them all.

>Resolve love triangle in the most disappointing way possible.
To be honest, this was the only Macross besides DYRL with a satisfying end to the romance. SDF was halfassed, Plus and 7 had no resolution or characters worth caring about anyways, Zero also lacked good MCs and they both died anyways, Frontier TV had a forced ambiguous end, and Frontier movie had Alto fuck off into another galaxy. If there's anything Delta got right, it was having Hayate confess to Freyja and reject Mirage in front of the entire galaxy.

>>14787344
>canon events
>Macross
'''''''''''''''''''''''canon'''''''''''''''''''''''''''' in Macross is extremely loose. Outside of a few choice and notable events, each version of a story is a retelling. Like the difference between your mother and father talking about their first meeting with each other.

The most important things are the same, but everything other than that gets hazy.

>>14787365
In this case the disappointment was Mirage's complete lack of characterization.

I don't mind that Freyja won, I'm upset that it was such a one sided love triangle.

>>14787448
>I'm upset that it was such a one sided love triangle.
Well maybe that's for the best. Besides Frontier was pretty one sided too. Delta still has one of the better romantic resolutions.

>>14787516

Frontier, at least, made the other part of the triangle important. Ranka's love for Alto was one sided, but Alto's relationship with and treatment of Ranka was still important even if he never really considered her a romantic target. He cared about Ranka, and he knew that she was emotionally very fragile and prone to mental breakdowns due to her traumatic childhood. So he treated her with kid gloves so as not to hurt her feelings and trigger a breakdown, and stringing her along blew up in his face after she caught him with Sheryl and freaked out so hard that Vajra started killing people.

Even if he chose Sheryl in the end, that's way more weight on their relationship than anything mirage and Hayate had, despite the fact that they inexplicably acted like an old married couple for half the show. There was plenty of potential for them to do something interesting with Mirage, they just refused to do so for mind boggling reasons.

In one of the previous threads, someone pointed out something that rings pretty true: Hayate was never allowed to interact with Mikumo, because Mikumo talking with Hayate more than once would inherently push Mirage out of even pretending to be part of the love triangle.

>>14787533
Fucking this.

>>14787533
Calm down, I never argued that Mirage was better characterized or more relevant than Ranka was. I'm only saying Delta had the better romantic end. It wasn't a happy sappy sky end like, Freyja is unsure of her new(possibly shortened) future with Hayate and he recites the letters his father wrote to calm her before saying they'll always be together. That's one of the sweetest things an MC has done in Macross, right next to DYRL Hikaru saying he wants to be with Misa when she's heartbroken after catching him in a misunderstanding.

>>14786293
Nigga the movies were 235 total which is around 12 eps if ya cut the ads and op/ed. The school parts were just padding and were removed. If it being removed improved the media then of course you can say it was bad and was dragging the series down. It wasn't even condensed. Parts of the plot got rewritten and characters entirely changed. I swear Frontier fags are so blind to the flaws of their show.

>>14787533
You know I thought in the back of my mind the whole "twist with the triangle" would be Mikumo was in it and not Mirage.
Not sure it would have made a difference really.

>>14787448
SDF, Frontier, 7, and Zero all had one sided love triangles.

>>14779334

God I fucking hate those costumes.

They killed Messer it was all downhill from that.

>>14788133
Stupid meme, because episodes 11, 12, and especially 13 were good. Some of the second cour episodes were also good.

>>14779334
yes

>>14780401

It's
>I'm ready to jack inside
>I'm gonna jack in hard, jack in deep

>>14788918

Why does she have lyrics like that when she's the least sexual one?

>>14789136

For the dissonance. She is also the most androgynous of the idols, so she gets the masculine lines.

I love SDF and DYRL, and for its time was pretty revolutionary.

I jumped directly to Delta this week, and it's boring, I can't stand watching the show during long times. Also the fights are boring (Why almost no destroid mode?) and hoped that Mirage had a better development. Delta sucks.

>>14789775
>and hoped that Mirage had a better development
I found your problem. Next time get better taste in girls. Obviously it wouldn't fix all of Delta's flaws, but it could make it enjoyable for you.

>>14789783

> Likes a Mary Sue like Freyja who the entire universe bends over backwards to help
> Lectures others on taste

Not that the end result of Mirage is much better, but Freyja is still a boring Sue regardless.

>>14789694
She also jacks Makina hard and deep every night.

>>14789869
>Mary Sue
Anon, please stop embarrassing yourself.

>>14789869
>Freyja
>Mary Sue
How did you even find this site, retard?

>tfw you actually liked the 2 seconds of interaction Mikumo and Hayate had because they had the same kind of autism

>>14789881

Everyone loved her, even people who felt she betrayed them, she got everything she wanted with no real struggle, she has no personality flaws, her singing can drive people crazy, except when she doesn't want it too, in which case, not a problem and she's always right. She's a Sue. If you want to like her then more power to you. Doesn't change what she is though.

>>14789893
>She's a Sue
No, you're just a fucking retard.

>>14789898

If you have to resort to name calling it's a good sign you have no actual defence.

>>14789901
No one is going to explain the most basic things to a newfag like you.
Lurk more, retard.

>>14789905

If you say so. I'd prefer to just discuss the point, but you obviously want to throw every possible distraction out instead of doing that. Try accusations of autism as a distraction next, I'm sure you'll need to hit that button eventually.

>>14789893
>no real struggle, she has no personality flaws
I know this show lacked spess planes but you can't honestly be this stupid. Man people these days will cry SUE over any character they don't like. She struggled through looking like an amatuer in front of Mikumo, being called a traitor by her own people, being labeled a spy in Ragna, helplessly being able to do nothing when Hayate and Mirage are being severely beaten by the windies, and in general always needing Hayate to defend her when she's in trouble or pulls off something crazy like jumping off a cliff. As for her personality, she's hopeful but insecure and easily startled, especially during assault concerts or when she tries to confess to Hayate. She's also unable to bring up serious topics like the lifespan issue so Hayate has to be the one to comfort her throughout the show. She's not a Sue, she's just a well written character which justifies her best girl status. But I guess you wouldn't care about that since you're a self admitted miragefag.

>Actually watching Macross Delta
I hope all of you faggots return to /a/ once this thread dies.

>>14789945
>not watching Macross Delta
Noncompletionists can kill themselves.

>>14789940

> She struggled through looking like an amatuer in front of Mikumo, being called a traitor by her own people, being labeled a spy in Ragna, helplessly being able to do nothing when Hayate and Mirage are being severely beaten by the windies

She didn't struggle through any if that. She existed during those things, but they all resolved themselves, mostly immediately, with no effort on her part. He "struggle" with Mikumo was resolved by everyone in the audience cooing at how cute she was when she fell down during her first concerned for instance. And she didn't do anything about being a traitor/spy - it just stopped being anything anyone cared about before the end of the same episode.

> As for her personality, she's hopeful but insecure and easily startled

She kept singing through multiple battles without flinching so, no, not really. Her "insecurity" amounts to getting jealous once, which no-one ever cared about and never had any negative connotations of any kind.

> I guess you wouldn't care about that since you're a self admitted miragefag.

I don't think you can read. I said Mirage wasn't much better in reality, but was at least a tiny amount better. I don't like Mirage either, so yea, not a Miragefag, but it's no surprise that you'd try and brush this off using accusations of shipping.

>>14789928
If you want discussion with other newfags go to reddit, MAL, animesuki or gaia.

>>14790026

If you don't have a point stop trying to obfuscate the discussion.

>>14789970
>resolved by everyone in the audience cooing at how cute she was when she fell down during her first concerned for instance. And she didn't do anything about being a traitor/spy
Except her performances on stage improved after these missteps and flinches. She didn't just keep being the cute klutz, she struggled to get better. Also, isn't it obvious that joining the war effort and participating in more deadly concerts was her way of proving to them that she wasn't a spy? That's her struggle.
>She kept singing through multiple battles without flinching so, no, not really.
First battle she got scared at the sight of an enemy, fails at auditions(until the end), first concert she's nervous and has her first misstep, second concert she's frightened by the sight of multiple missiles and flinches when she's called a traitor. She also gets confronted by her own people upclose and is unable to change their minds as they beat her friends. Then there's the issues she couldn't bring up or resolve herself like the Immeldad bombing of her planet or the lifespan issue. Give up, she's not a Sue.
>not a Miragefag, but it's no surprise that you'd try and brush this off using accusations of shipping.
I never accused you of shipping anyone, I called you a miragefag, one who fags over her character, not her relationship with mc. From the talk we had so far, seems like you're more upset over Mirage not being best girl than Freyja just being a well done MC.

>>14790029
No, newfag, that's not how this community works.
Fuck off to whatever shithole you came from and never return.

>>14790029
It's barely even a discussion. Mary Sue fags completely lack credibility, especially in Macross.

>>14790042
Their entire argument is "she had it slightly easier than normal because we never had to sit through two whole episodes of vocal training! Sue! SUUUUUE!"

>>14779334
Given how I saw you faggots claim the exact same thing about Frontier and called it worse than Destiny back when it aired, and then forgot all about it till SRW and then started praising it: Probably not.

We'll see if your hate sticks around when SRW comes around, until then I'm just going to assume
>/m/ bashes on new/currently airing show, doubly so if it's part of a well known franchise, round #9000

>>14790059
Frontier is still shit. It is just /a/ crossboarders praising it.

>>14790030

> That's her struggle.

So her struggle is just doing what everyone else is doing and not being an amateur at it?

> as they beat her friends. Then there's the issues she couldn't bring up or resolve herself like the Immeldad bombing of her planet or the lifespan issue.

The Winderemereans beating Hayate and Mirage isn't her struggle, or because of her. They were beating them regardless of her because they were the Winderemereans enemy. She couldn't stop them, but in that same scene she shows up Bogue and gets Casshim on her side. Sheet basically immediately brushes off Immeldad bombing the planet and Kaname shows more concern over it than she does.

> From the talk we had so far, seems like you're more upset over Mirage not being best girl than Freyja just being a well done MC.

The only time I've mentioned Mirage so far is to say her character wasn't anything so I've no idea how you read that. Both Mirage and Freyja had potential at the start and are initially enjoyable, but end up uninteresting. I'm sure you'll find some way to keep accusing me of being a Miragefag or read upset about that instead though.

>>14790058

That's not actually close to what I've said and I didn't even mention anything to do with how she didn't need vocal training. Perhaps you're conflating this with another argument?

>>14790064
>Frontier is still shit. It is just /a/ crossboarders praising it.
More like people hate it to fit in /m/.

>>14790066
>So her struggle is just doing what everyone else is doing and not being an amateur at it?
Her struggle is trying not to be the klutzy amatuer silly.
>The Winderemereans beating Hayate and Mirage isn't her struggle, or because of her.
Never said it was her fault, I said she was helpless and powerless during that scene.
>She couldn't stop them, but in that same scene she shows up Bogue and gets Casshim on her side.
Cassim used her argument to further support the Windermere agenda. He wasn't on her side at that time.
>Sheet basically immediately brushes off Immeldad bombing the planet
No she doesn't because she acts depressed and disconnected from Hayate the episode after. Then when they go to Windermere she sees the crater for herself and cries.
>The only time I've mentioned Mirage so far is to say her character wasn't anything so I've no idea how you read that.
>>14789775
>>14789783
Don't make stupid arguments anymore moragefag. No one is falling for this Mary Sue shit.

>>14790098
>moragefag
Miragefag sorry.

>>14790098

> Her struggle is trying not to be the klutzy amatuer silly.

Its hard to continue being nervous when you do something repeatedly. She had nerves the first time she did it professionally and that's it.

> she was powerless

She didn't over power several trained soldiers on her own, but she wasnt helpless since she managed to one up one of them and get another laughing and chatting by argument.

You might as well say Lacus isn't a Sue because she was captured once and helpless to escape.

> He wasn't on her side at that time.

He immediately started laughing, pointing out that she'd gotten Bogue and chatting with her. That's the foundation of their later encounters. He asked her to sit down in the next encounter and chatted to her primarily because she'd mentioned apples.

> No she doesn't because she acts depressed and disconnected from Hayate the episode after.

There's maybe one scene like that in the episode, right at the start, and all she does is look quietly away from him. The bulk of the episode is her chatting with Casshim and the battle, during which she shows no such reservations. They're friends again almost immediately afterthought scene with Casshim.

> Then when they go to Windermere she sees the crater for herself and cries.

What's that supposed to prove, that she can feel sadness and can't reverse time? That same scene is turned in to her scene when she starts singing for the dead on Hayate's suggestion and the Aerial Knights get argumentative over it.

> Don't make stupid arguments anymore moragefag.

Why are you linking to two posts by someone else like it means anything? Why are you linking to posts that dont even praise Mirage, but only say she was under developed at all?

>>14790210
>She had nerves the first time she did it professionally and that's it.
She started acting ballsy after episode 13. You just flat out ignored what I previously said too.
> but she wasnt helpless since she managed to one up one of them
>He immediately started laughing, pointing out that she'd gotten Bogue
Except Cassim one uped her by using her own argument against her. She couldn't talk them out of it. She never does until the end.
>all she does is look quietly away from him.
Is she supposed to tell the audience she feels sad. It's incredibly obvious she feels bad about Hayate and his father and simply can't talk to him about it.
> she starts singing for the dead on Hayate's suggestion
That's another thing. She's heartbroken for the dead and doesn't know what to do until Hayate suggests for her to sing. She doesn't always have the answers to everything like your claiming.
>Why are you linking to posts that dont even praise Mirage, but only say she was under developed at all?
Because other anon says pretty much what I'm saying. You're just upset this girl you like didn't get screentime so you're taking it out on this other character that's better written and enjoyable.

Really though, this isn't getting anywhere with you just ignoring my points in a desperate Mary Sue rant, so I'll just be done with it. Good talk I guess.

>>14790253

> She started acting ballsy after episode 13.

What has that got to do with lack of amateurish after one concert.

> You just flat out ignored what I previously said too.

If you mean about her being easily startled the fact she wasn't startled after only battle means it's not a character trait, just nerves and an initial thing. If it she was easily startled it'd happen repeatedly and in multiple scenarios.

> Except Cassim one uped her by using her own argument against her. She couldn't talk them out of it. She never does until the end.

It can take more than one conversation. The point is that even in the midst of a bad situation she makes her enemies stop, laugh and like her. She wasn't helpless. If she was, she'd have been overwhelmed, not out argued.

> Is she supposed to tell the audience she feels sad.

No, but unless it has an actual effect it's not really a real obstacle. Beyond that one look nothing comes of it.

> That's another thing. She's heartbroken for the dead and doesn't know what to do until Hayate suggests for her to sing. She doesn't always have the answers to everything like your claiming.

Never claimed she had all the answers anon. I made several claims about her, but that wasn't one of them. Also, she wasn't lost on what to do, she just wasn't doing anything until Hayate suggested singing. There's a difference.

> You're just upset this girl you like didn't get screentime

The only mentioned I've made of Mirage has been to say she was barely better than Freyja in the end. That and responding to your constant claims I'm only upset about her and taking it out on Freyja despite never mentioning anything to do with the triangle.

> desperate Mary Sue rant

Im not the one making assumptions and calling names. all I've done is try to discuss it. If you want a good talk in future instead of a rant maybe you should change your own habits.

>someone still responding to the Mary Sue bait

>>14789945
Nigger /a/ fucking hates Delta.

Its been non stop bitching of how shit it is ever since it ended.

>>14790342
>Never claimed she had all the answers anon.
Not him but when you say X is a Mary Sue then you are certainly claiming X has all the answers. C'mon anon, you can bait better than that.

>>14790634

Saying someone is a Mary Sue is not synonymous with saying they have all the answers. Nor is it implicit in the idea of a Mary Sue.

>>14790652
Anon, I don't think you know what a sue is.

>>14789940
>being called a traitor by her own people, being labeled a spy
a mary sue can still be insulted, in fact people we are meant to dislike insulting the sue is a pretty normal

>>14790652
It's obvious you have no idea what Mary Sue is.

>>14790677
>>14790682
>>14790682

It's obvious you think there can be only strict definition of a Mary Sue and that all of them fit this exact same profile with no deviation of any kind from the archetype possible. Which hasn't been true since the second Mary Sue appeared in fan-fiction more than likely.

>>14790689
When one character is better than the one you like, he/she isn't a sue, he/she is just a better character than the one you like. Sorry but that's the truth, anon-kun.

>>14790788

Okay. Except I never said she was boring or a Sue because she was better than someone I liked, so that's a hollow argument.

>>14790811
I....are you this dense?

>>14790865

I must be. Why don't you explain what I'm missing anon? Or do you really think I'm arguing that she's a boring Sue character only because she was better than X or that the only problem anyone ever has with a Sue is that they're better than other characters in terms of capability?

The show may have left me feeling a little bitter, but listening to Ikenai Borderline on repeat for most of the week reminds me that not all of it was bad.

>>14785215
The Frontier final battles for both the Tv and movie where something else, its amazing how Delta fucked up so much that we ended up using fucking stock footage

>>14790897
That and the first ED was like, the only good songs in the show.

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2MB, 400x300px

>>14786122
>Hayate wasn't as wishy washy as Alto
Nigger what, faggot was angsting about killing a single fucking unnamed windie while Alto fucking hated it but killed galaxy pilots by the dozen and then there is the Vajra, he felt their physical pain when he killed them and he still killed them by the dozen, he fucking shot the final boss in the face while faggot Hayate had to let one of the bad guys do it for him

And its hilarious how you're comparing Sheryl to Freya when Freya started channeling Ranka as hard as she possibly could in the second half and nearly becoming a living ball of drama

You Deltafags are fucking subhumans

>>14790903
Don't be biased. Delta's final battle was rushed af but it it had loads of new combat footage. It just needed that final Immelmann dance for us to ignore the rushed feeling but sadly, it didn't deliver. Also, I actually don't remember Frontier movie's final battle all that well. From what I remember, it was just Vajra beating up the fleet and a 1 on 1 dogfight between Alto and Brera that didn't even get resolved, much like the TV version of their fight except at least in the movie Alto wasn't so hopelessly outmatched.

I find it incredibly sad that Delta tried to copy the Frontier plot 1:1 in the end, hell they even had the evil planes go white like the Vajra did when they connected the galactic hivemind

>>14790903
Well, the battle in Delta's final episode was actually good. Just not good enough for a final episode. And not good enough to make people forget about slow 2nd half. Also shitty main villain prevented me from enjoying it too.

>>14790936
>Alto fucking hated it but killed galaxy pilots
When did Alto kill galaxy pilots? When did he even mention enemy pilots in the TV show? We never even see Galaxy pilots. Throughout the entire show he was never conflicted about killing Vajra either. He wanted full on space bug genocide until the very end. It was dull as hell. Hayate expressed his doubts about killing men far better than that ruthless faggot Alto.

Comparing Freyja to Ranka won't get you anywhere, they're both incredibly different. Come back when you have a better argument besides "lol stupid genki girls are bad".

Frontierfags really are blind to the flaws of their halfbaked show.

>>14790980
So, you're telling me that a soldier doing what he should be doing, killing the muderous space bugs, is boring and we should get more characters like Hayate who keep bitching and moaning about being force to kill his enemies in the military and letting his companions die because of his faggotry or getting his VF exploded nearly every single fight because he is a incompetent retard? Thats your idea of a better protagonist? Also Alto fought Galaxy pilots in the final episode of Frontier.

I compared Freya to ranka because you somehow thought that comparing Sheryl to Freya and sayign that Freya had a better character development was something sane to post because Freya started her shit liking to sing and being in general pretty upbeat and then she decided to go full Ranka and and started to want to stop singing for bullshit reasons while her companions needed her, something Ranka did, at best Sheryl just gave up when Ranka got rescued because she was nearly dead.

And then there is the movie where she sang to much she went into a fucking coma

>>14791010
I never said I liked Hayate's stubborn pacifist views during war, but he feels far more believable than Alto when you compare their first kills. Alto just keeps bitching about wanting to kill more of them while Hayate is shaken up and frightened by his actions like Hikaru was in SDF. Hayate isn't as well developed as Hikaru, but he's far better than the nothing Alto has become.
>Also Alto fought Galaxy pilots in the final episode of Frontier
Okay so if he fought these imaginary pilots we never see in the final battle, then where are you getting this shit about him being conflicted about killing the show?

Ah shit I forgot to say I wasn't that same anon. I believe Sheryl was better developed than Freyja but then again, Sheryl is Sheryl. Freyja was a great character that started off thinking singing would be mindless fun but she begins to take it seriously as the show progresses. Even though Sheryl is amazing, Freyja is comparable with her because the two start of confident with no troubles until they begin showing signs of weakness and insecurity.

Movie is different anon. Besides, she recovers beautifully fron that coma and reunites with Alto. At least Freyja sings while burning out her lifespan and she is NOT getting those years back.

>>14791010
So fucking much exaggeration.

>letting his companions die because of his faggotry
Yes, Messer died because Hayate didn't kill Bogue.

>or getting his VF exploded nearly every single fight
You mean one time? When he was caught by a fucking nuke he didn't even expect.

Oh wait, you're that retard who complains about MUH GRITTY WAR DRAMA in every thread. Can you just fuck off and watch to your mature Gundam series.

>>14790929
AXIA was pretty good as well. It just makes me sad when I listen to it.

2nd OP grew on me a little as well. Still got nothing on Lion though.

>>14791091
Didn't Alto wreck his fighter in his fucking training session? He was also incredibly incompetent against all his battles against Brera and got his VF-171EX destroyed, then he wrecks his VF-25 again in the end. I'm not saying he sucks because of this either, I'm just saying.

>>14790958
I honestly enjoyed Roid a lot more than Grace. Hell I liked Leon more than Grace. Movie Leon is better than all of them too.

>>14791167
He did pretty well against Brera in the first instance he came across him, after Brera had shot down Klan. He blew off one of Brera's legs, even.

Alto was reckless, but still one of the better MC pilots.

>>14786122

> Alto
> wishy washy

Can you give some examples of what makes him weak, indecisive or angsty, presuming that's what you mean by wishy washy? Cause I'm just not seeing it. He made several decisions throughout the show and always owned them, not dwelled on whether they were right or wrong or failed to make them out of fear like that implies.

He left a budding career to pursue his dream, refused to see his father afterwards, joined SMS to help a friend, left SMS when he lost faith in them and so on.

The one thing I've seen people use as an example of him being indecisive is not making a choice between Sheryl or Ranka. Which fails to take in to account that he wasn't actually aware there was a choice to be made since he wasn't aware of Ranka's feelings. The closest he came to knowing was Michael telling him she wrote her songs about him, which he didn't act like he believed and after which they were immediately interrupted by several things, including a Vajra attack. And then Ranka left so it was moot.

The show presented it as a choice to the viewer, but Alto himself never seemed like he knew about the triangle. Calling him dense would seem appropriate, but that's every Macross TV series main character. Wishy washy seems off the mark though, so I'm curious as to your reasoning.

>>14790929
>Disregards Bokura no Senjou, Cosmic Movement, Walkure Attack, Giraffe Blues, Hametsu no Junjou, AXIA, Onyanoko Girl, God Bless You, and Absolute 5.

kys

>>14792189
>Good songs.

>>14792242
>Shit taste

>>14792398
>shittiest taste

>>14792988
>tasteless

Delta's largest failing was the lack of good bridge bunnies.

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Best Macross?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAUwdwGOh7E

The only thing I have for the new Macross series is a few songs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga_aTC1MCY0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qWnDqeXMhA

Somewhat okay, it's more like a September song anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3nfweteZck

:^)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFpYqocHpdA

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The important thing is that MiragexMikumo happened.

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>>14798757

>>14779334
Meh as much as frontier.

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One of my classmates got a Totoro cake for their wedding.

Made me wonder if I'll ever find a girl who would be okay with having a Macross wedding cheesecake at the reception. I akready know I'll die alone

So how did the 11s find Delta?

>>14802200
Double dubs witnessed.

And I'd be fucking down to have a macross cake even if I didn't know what it was cause that'd mean more cake for us.

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>>14802210
>mfw the bitter taste Delta leaves in their mouths causes the succeeding Walkure concerts to bomb hard

Minori Suzuki got a role in new Danganronpa visual novel. It seems she is following Nakajima's path. I. e. she won't get any big role ever.
Walkure Trap album sold 56k first week. For comparison Walkure Attack sold 77k.
Delta volume 3 sold 9,917 which is almost the same as volume 1 on week1. But that's mostly due to event ticket for 2nd LIVE concert. I wonder if it gets a big drop when volumes for the 2nd half will be released.
Walkure were supposed to sing during opening ceremony for some baseball match, but it was cancelled due to bad weather.

I wish I had time machine so I could return back in time and kill myself right after episode 13 when I was still happy.

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>>14803595
>but it was cancelled due to bad weather.
You can tell that even the weather doesnt like Delta.

>>14803595
movie in 2018-2019.

>>14802216
Walkure is more popular than the show itself. Some people are buying the BD just for the event ticket.

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>>14803595
>Caring about BD sales

>>14783060
It's introducing Kawamori's new pet species and future protagonists. Now they'll be all half Windies or some shit. Except the jobber Zentraedi.

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>>14783060
>>14805637

Have you considered that the Galaxy is presently under Windfag hegemony? That's why they published two manga starring heroine Freyja and tragic hero Keith. While NUNS are portrayed as evil fuckers who twirl their invisible mustaches.

>>14779338
THIS, 7 and Zero where crap

anything on the 3rd special from the third volume yet?

>>14783060
>stops nothing

To be fair, Hayate has stopped numerous attempts from the windies to kill Freyja. He's been rescuing her since the beginning and if not for that, she never would have joined Walkure. I'm not saying it's much but it's something.

I also don't see why it's now standard for the MC pilot to have to deliver the final blow against the final boss. The only ones who complain about this have not seen SDFM. Hikaru was not all that relevant in SDFM. He never kills any named characters either. Hell, in the final battle, he just fucks off to go save Misa on Earth.

>>14805791
Messer used to drliver pizzas

Mikumo dynamite when?

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>>14784477
I actually like the FSW Seiggy as much as the basic bitch delta Seiggy.

I've also grown on the Draken, I used to think it looked like a speedboat, but now its pretty sexy.

Zero >>>>>>>>> Delta.

>>14781075
she says better be ready cause thats what they shout before they sing that first ED you fucks

>>14781510
there he is

>>14779441
>plus
>good music
Even Zero had better music than that turd.

>>14805976
Drakens look kinda wierd in a lot of photos, but they'rea beautiful aircrafts in person.

>>14807733
>Shitting over Yoko Kanno
I've seen some really hilarious opinions on plus but yours is just the cherry. Thanks for the laugh.

>>14807767
>Yoko Kanno
fedora music

How bad a Macross entry ends up being is directly proportional to how many female singers are in it.

>>14784477
>The songs are all pretty great. It is a testament to Delta's quality songwork that there is not a single outright bad song in either album

Yeah, no. But keep telling yourself that. If it works for you to make generic bland jpop listenable.

>>14807803
Stick to LL if you want to hear definition of bland and generic jpop shit. Almost all of their group songs sound exactly the same.

Delta's songs are all unique and sound differently and it's on completely different level from your generic anime jpop. If you check song credits you will see that some of the composers are professionals working with real high profile jpop bands.

Noname director with his only major work being Shugo Chara (anime for little girls)
Noname writer with his only major work being Log Horizon (and it's fucking adaptation).
CG made by a studio with capital of 30,000$ and its office being just an apartment in some shitty house.
Probably zero budget because they couldn't animate not only missiles, but even idol dancing.
No one controlling Kawamori.

People shouldn't have had any expectation for Delta. I hope Kawamori will earn shitton of chinese money from his next show, hire better staff, get better CG studio, hire more animators and make the real Delta we all wanted to see.

>>14807875
It's still jpop. Jpop is boring and was already in SDF/Frontier.

>>14807875
Don't bother. I bet he thinks Plus and Zero's songs are good because they're "different".

>>14807774
>Hurr durr!! FEDORA WEARING NECKBEARDS!!!
Very mature... Now go back to playing in your sandpit kiddo.

>>14807875
>Sounding "different"
>Was all just generic jpop anyway
Good grief you people have completely awful taste...

I don't like Macross but fuck the fanbase is so much better than gundam's

you guys actually discuss the series

>>14792189
>God Bless You
>ever liking the token, vaguely-Christmas idol song
>ever
>ever
No matter what else you like, you will always have the shittest taste.

>>14808770
Yoko Kanno is a plagiarizing hack

>>14805963
She's 15, anon.

>>14808751
Sharon and Myung have great songs. What's wrong with Plus?

>>14804235
>>14805230
I'm going to argue that "disrespecting Mirage" did hurt the narrative. The biggest problem is that the show wants to say that it's a love triangle. It isn't. It inserts scenes that are supposed to make it seem like a love triange, but they are such a token gesture it's a complete waste of time. The development of Hayate and Freyja is like a symbiotic, spiritual relationship while Mirage can't even come off as the military senpai with more life experience. If anything she's more like a random co-worker who actually has to be supported by the new guy because she can barely do her own job. This creates a very weak, one-sided dynamic. That's not how you write a triangle.

So what's the greater problem, miragefage? You might ask. The issue is this, the lack of a proper love triangle means that there is no sense of conflict or competition to the main pairing. Mirage is not a threat to that relationship therefore conflict must come from somewhere else, and this is where the narrative falls apart.

Halfway through the series they are clearly madly in love without confessing it. Everyone knows. At this point as a writer you have options. In the traditional love triangle something happens to the main pairing and the third leg catches the other on the rebound. Conflict. Uh-oh, doing that with mirage now will look super forced. The other option is to let the relationship slowly grow but go focus on other things in the show like other characters or events. But uh-oh, our precious hayate and freyja will get less screen-time if we do that. Then your final option must be to make their relationship falter for reasons? Clearly the writers didn't think that through, so what we get is the weird angsting that hayate and freyja go through about singing and losing control and then fix, but then its not really fixed, oh ah it's fixed now, wait it's not fixed but everybody suddenly stopped giving a shit even though this was the hot topic for like 4 episodes.

>>14810049
Cont'd

So back to mirage. We waste a lot of time on scenes trying to keep the "dream" alive (cue Mirage looking off wistfully as tears roll down her cheeks). No those didn't work. They failed on a fundamental writing level so the show would have been better off with those left out (or god forbid they had actually committed to a love triangle and actually fleshed out the non-canon relationship). So what we have is a lot of wasted time. Time wasted on Mirage feeling like a loser and time wasted on the self-destructing hayate-freyja ship which then reconstructs itself form nothing. Time that could have been spent developing the rest of the cast. Since we don't have that time, what do we do? First we waste more time on a bizarre franchise recap episode consisting of talking head expository dialogue. Then we give some cast members some pity backstory in the form of poorly thought out flashbacks that still fail to address the most important character points.

If it wasn't going to play the cliche love triangle game, Delta really needed something clever to fill the void but their relationship conflict choice was full of holes and, compared to the generic love triangle, boring and poorly written.

The only thing worse in fiction than being poorly written is being boring and poorly written.

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Even outside shipping, Mirage's "by-the-book makes me suck at piloting but I got better because I said so in the last episode" character arc was crushing disappointment.

I thought they were going to give her a "There's more to life then piloting VFs" one where she tries to become a more balanced person instead of a lonely VF turboautist like Messer. Maybe even get into singing like they teased.

But if it's all about piloting then the least they could do is give her one of the Windies (probably Bogue) as a rival with emotional connection like Hayate and Keith had.

>>14810086
> but I got better because I said so in the last episode

They left that arc dead in the water from the middle of the first season and then bring it up again right before she's about to get executed. Why? I would have been fine with forgetting all about it rather than that handwave conclusion. Just like Hayate going berserk is fine just because Mirage said she'd take responsibility for it, which she then doesn't do when he does go berserk and the fact that he went berserk again seemed to have no consequence so it's unclear whether that was even resolved.

The characters in concept and in dialogue seem likeable enough, but the second half has a lot of bad character writing that makes motivations really strange and makes the characters seem really capricious and stupid.

>>14810086
Keith had an emotional connection to Hayate?

As far as I remember he just scoffed at the Grim Reaper emblem when it was Messer and bitched about Hayate being shit until he song-buffed.

>>14810044
Hating Plus is new hot meme or something.

>>14808833
>I don't like Macross but fuck the fanbase is so much better than gundam's
>you guys actually discuss the series
Macross has the advantage of having new things to discuss every new series, for better or worse. For worse in Delta's case. While Gundam is stuck trying to please oldfags while trying to have broad appeal. And there is just no consensus on what makes a good Gundam show. It doesn't help that Gundam is being made way too regularly and Sunrise really is running out of ideas. At least Macross only gets made once in a while.

>>14810207

People have been doing so for years. There's nothing hot or new about it.

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>>14810086
Mirage
>can't shoot windies
>can't sing
>can't win a boy's heart

Absolutely useless. What a wase of a Jenius.

>>14810044
French songs are shit.

河森インタより

・ミラージュは選ばれなかったのはでなく、空におけるハヤテのパートナーになったのです
・レディ・Mの正体は秘密です
・ライトを主人公にしてOVAを作りたい
・戦争の今後は、おそらくウィンダミア側ではハインツが矛を収めて、
ケイオス側ではレディ・Mが動いて戦いが終結すんじゃないかと思います。

>>14810229

I have been saying for a while that she should've been the one who stepped up to fill the void Messer left.

I'd also liked that they used both Mirage and songbuffed Hayate to take down the shirokishi back at the end of the first cour.

In the end, i'm glad she was the one who was the loser, having her win would've needed even more ex machinas that the ones that allowed Sherryl to win in F, and that would've made delta even more shit than it is.

>>14810622

Sheryl won Frontier well before the finale. Even if she'd died Ranka wouldn't have won.

>>14810631

Really?

I was under the impression that she won because she was alone with alto for a couple of episodes and in the time he realized how much like his own mother she was (You know, being a half dead yukata wearing hottie and all) and that's why he fell for her. Sometimes i believe his family arranged for that to see if he could make him be less of a fag, but i digess, lt's also remember that while this happened Ranka was millions of miles away, unable to do anything about it.

It was fair considering how badly they treated her during 3/4 of the series, that was only fair i guess, however i always hated that the way they made romance work in delta is making a girl win battles by shitting on the other one.

At least they fixed it in the movies, noone in their right mid could argue that movie Ranka was just a plot device for AltoxSheryl, still not a good way to handle a triangle, but was way better than F.

>>14810672
You're either blind or clueless, considering Frontier's triangle was settled a dozen episodes before that point, if it even had one to begin with. Which is itself debatable, considering that at no point does Alto express anything even remotely romantic toward Ranka.

>>14810672

Pretty much what >>14810700, just in less confrontational tones. Sheryl could have never existed and Ranka never left Frontier and there's no indication Alto would ever have picked her because there's never any romantic tension or moments between them. As is though, Sheryl and Alto kiss half a dozen times during the show, go on dates, are implied to have had sex and are a couple by show's end. Sheryl won well before the finale.

>>14810622

Wait, I just realized you mentioned deus ex machinas. Plural. And while I can see why Ranka curing Sheryl's plotitis in the finale might qualify as a deus ex machina, even if I disagree, given that it's an extension of something always present in the show and made explicit with several episodes (her ability to communicate with Vajra via bacteria) I can't think of what else could qualify to make you list it as a plural.

>>14810672

> I always hated that the way they made romance work in Delta is making a girl win battles by shitting on the other one.

I take it you mean Frontier rather than Delta here considering the rest of your post.?

>>14810352
Translation?

>>14810966
I'm an expert on interpreting result of google translate.

Hayate didn't chose Mirage, but she became his partner "in the sky". Literally cuck meme.
Identity of Lady M is still a secret.
Kawamori wants to make an OVA, probably something as terrible as we gtot for EVOL. Which probably means that we won't get movies. Just fuck my life.
Something about how the war may end. Who cares, windies were mistake.

Maybe it's a good thing we won't get movies. Instead of trying to fix things it's better to move on and try to create something new and better. But I just don't want to wait another 8 years.

>>14811182

Evol got an OVA?

>>14811205
Yeap.
http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=anime&aid=11151

>>14809941
I'm guess you liked Zero's songs.

>>14811182
He says he wants to make an OVA with Raito as the main character. I cannot for the life of me remember who or what that is, and I marathoned this show like 2 days ago.

>Hayate didn't chose Mirage, but she became his partner "in the sky".
It actually says Hayate did not not choose Mirage (really kawamori?) because she's his sky partner. Probably meant to appease Mirage fans, but even if you like Mirage there's no reason to think there was any chemistry between the two so this is just an empty gesture.

heck, even if someone came out and wrote they got together after freyja kicks the bucket it would still be ridiculous. Also, second place finish.

>>14811337
I'll be honest, Zero and DYRL I've not watched. I'm basing my experience on various J-pop albums and coming to the conclusion that whoever wrote and whoever likes those vaguely christmas loves songs are not taste sensitive.

>>14811437
>I cannot for the life of me remember who or what that is, and I marathoned this show like 2 days ago.
ライト・インメルマン = Wright Immelmann, the father of Hayate.

>>14811337
>Zero's songs.
One of the best Macross songs. It's a French song.

>>14811467
I knew that raito could be wright, but I forgot that was his name. Which reminds me of how shitty a lot of the naming is in the series. Even if you blame it's future space, it's still only like 50 years in the future.

>>14811467
>Kawamori-sensei, shouldn't we explain why NUNS remotely dropped nuke on their own base? Or why were they so afraid of windies and protoculture ruins they decided to nuke their capital in the first place?
>Nah, lets leave it for an OVA
And then they will never make this OVA. And seriously is anyone interested in Hayate's dad story?

>>14811633

Wait, the show didn't even explain that after playing up the mystery for the 21 odd episodes I watched? Wow.

>>14811633

only for the vf-22

>>14811695
This. Maybe, just maybe there'll be some gorgeous VF porn.

>>14811633
>wow, Hayate, your dad is such a good guy
>insubordinately tries to drop the bomb off someplace to save lives
>crying over the sin NUNS is making him do
>thinking about his family

Jesus what an asspull scene.
>Let's make Hayate feel bad about his father being a bomber since we've been building this up for two seasons
>but we'll handwave it away with a random plot device the episode after since we already have too many plot threads

Jesus this fucking show. I'm content to believe that only the first cour happened.

>>14811633
There's absolutely nothing about him in the show that makes him seem the least bit interesting.
>ooh, spy!

>>14811633
>>14811736
The theories about him being affected by Val syndrome made more sense

>>14811695
I still think the VF-22 scenes are just an excuse for Bandai to release a DX toy, like they did with the 19.

>>14786946

What I'm seeing there is that Yoshino and the rest of the team didn't want to force the ending in ways they thought would be unnatural for the characters so they wrote an ending that fit the characters and left it up to the viewers to decide what that meant, according to what they'd seen in the show, knowing there'd be some viewers mad but thinking they'd be able to handle it. And then had to make a more clear cut one for the movies because Kawamori got upset at the reaction and people couldn't deal with not having the characters clearly enunciate their feelings and instead just acting upon them.

That's definitely ambiguity, but it's not a case of it that I'd be upset about personally. I'd even say it's the kind of ambiguity anime could do with more of, since it's really a case of the character's being allowed to show their feelings and not tell them to the audience.

>>14811900
>force the ending in ways they thought would be unnatural for the characters
Actual TV ending felt even more unnatural considering that Alto most likely had sex with Sheryl and later almost confessed to her. It wasn't just ambiguous ending, it felt like one step back from what was already developed.

And I would like to mention that Yoshino is the writer of Mai-Hime and Guilty Crown. That guy is a master of writing shittiest endings possible.

>>14811471
French songs suck, newfag. Being unique doesn't make it good.

>>14811743
How does it not make sense how it is now? He lead the bomb to a less populated area and didn't even drop it because it was remote controlled. I don't see any holes in these circumstances desu.

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>>14811973
See >>14811633. Arad made 2 theories about it, but they don't sound too convincing. That VF-22 is probably designed to carry and drop Dimensional Eaters so in general it shouldn't be affected by explosion too much. And Wright's plane indeed wasn't completely destroyed in the explosion. So NUNS nuked millions of people to kill Wright when he could easily survive it anyway.

>>14811932

I'm not sure what you mean by a step back since Alto didn't take any steps back in behavior or dialogue during the ending. Ranka didn't give up on winning, but Alto never knew about it and just did what he needed to save Ranka and help Sheryl. As to Yoshino, I've no idea what else he's written, I've never watched either of those two shows to comment on them and Frontier itself is far from perfect, but allowing ambiguity in the ending by simply having the characters act naturally seems like a good idea to me. It might be one of his rare ones, but it's still one regardless. It's not even entirely his idea going by that interview anyways.

>>14812032
>>14811973
Wait, if it was remoted controlled then why the fuck was detonated off target?

>>14812153
Well there was no way in hell they could retrieve it with enemies apparently present.

>>14787533
>In one of the previous threads, someone pointed out something that rings pretty true: Hayate was never allowed to interact with Mikumo, because Mikumo talking with Hayate more than once would inherently push Mirage out of even pretending to be part of the love triangle.
Mikumo desperately needed much more screentime and interactions with other characters than what she had. Even just more scenes of her doing wierd shit like humming the wind song would've been great.

The cast in general needed more interactions with eachother, it felt like almost nobody had enough screentime.

>>14787593
>>14812204
The Mikuno and Hayate talk almost feel like something you expect a main couple
>i fly, you sign
hell if it was early in the show it would be a pretty good setup for the love triangle too
>i can have people and protoculture ruins react to my singing but you only react to Freya's singing

>>14812393
>The Mikuno and Hayate talk almost feel like something you expect a main couple
Especially when it looked like Mikumo got completely over the clone business after they talked.

>>14812411
They both have that in common. They're both confronted by terrible revelations and they put it aside for the sake of their friends. If she was involved instead of Mirage, this would have been the first actually good love triangle in Macross.

>>14810352
KawaLucas says that Heinz will make the Windfags lay down their arms and Lady will move to end the war.
Sounds like no movie sequel to me.

>>14812463
You say that, but even if that works thematically (which it doesn't because of later revelations) they'd still have to actually write a romance, which the entire problem is that they don't know how to write a secondary romance. Even Mirage and Hayate had thematic parallels (Hayate's lack of vision of the future and what he wants to make of his life, Mirage's lack of vision outside of being a pilot and finding that missing thing that completes herself) but that didn't fucking work either.

I at first thought the idea would be to create a character out of both, but if you put the idol in the pilot seat they stop singing and if you make the pilot sing then it takes away from Freyja's setting and undermines Mikumo's concept as being born as a song weapon. But if you just erase Mirage then we have the frontier setup again.

>>14813465
They should have just ditched the love triangle to begin with. We didn't need it. Delta already breaks tradition by having younger girl win, so no point in keeping with this traditional element to begin with. Should have just made it an otp.

>>14813770
In that Forbes interview Kawamori did in May he said that he asked to drop one of the three aspects of songs, battles and a love triangle but the producers said he couldn't. Is it possible it was just written so poorly because he didn't want it there in the first place?

>>14813790

It's not like Frontier, Zero, 7 or even Plus' triangle was much better written. Kawamori did say he always wants to drop it during that interview so he might always be writing them badly out of a lack of interest. Almost all his works have a triangle though, so I doubt it. I'd say he's just not very good at them and doesn't really know how to do the triangle aspect of it.

>>14814000
He fucking lies. Even his non Macross works have love triangles. He is huge romancefag and dramawhore. He just doesn't know how to write triangles properly, but it never stopped him. His next show is sponsored by chinks, but I'm 100% sure it will have major romance drama too.

>>14813790
>Kawamori
He wanted to drop battles

>>14811946
>newfag
Hi, newfriends. French songs doesn't suck.

>>14810622

Messer could have been Gamlin 2.0 and he and Kaname could have had a good story line going forward to compliment the main triangle. Arad should have died (fuck he was useless outside I knew your dad and the King) and Messer taken over Delta, he then could have squared away Hayate and his pacifist BS then helped Mirage not suck. Maybe in the movie who knows.

>>14815554
>outside I knew your dad and the King
The captain also knew the King and you could easy make him knew Hayate's dad too (he probably knew him too but we aren't told)