Earth Federation vs Principality of Zeon Which, and why. Gogogo

File: 1380071451878.jpg (227KB, 1840x1000px) Image search: [Google]

227KB, 1840x1000px

Crossbone Vanguard any day of the week

File: Jim feelin' it.jpg (78KB, 333x500px) Image search: [Google]

78KB, 333x500px

>>14744049
Earth Federation. Not-retarded production plans, upholders of the status quo, and generally don't go out of their way to genocide people because lol ideals. Corrupt bureaucrats over batshit dictators any day of the week.

File: 1474090026216.png (698KB, 982x900px) Image search: [Google]

698KB, 982x900px

>>14744049
I like Earth.
I wouldn't want to live in some fucking colony.
Federation has better girls too.

File: 11139402_869856549749271_1624349414389247382_n.png (220KB, 439x385px) Image search: [Google]

220KB, 439x385px

>>14744056
Thats a very fair point, and an obvious choice

But muh Zeeks and muh Feds

File: Zeon-or-Bust.gif (28KB, 221x248px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 221x248px

>>14744066
>Titans

File: 12027691_959152810810382_7182825145529030221_n.jpg (82KB, 682x960px) Image search: [Google]

82KB, 682x960px

>>14744068
Most girls in Gundam are shit. Look in each series aside from MSG. Most of them fuck everything up royally.

>>14744074
>Jovian scum

>>14744082
Fair

File: 12360276_976324292435829_7182454286842879856_n.jpg (34KB, 618x311px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 618x311px

>>14744066
How do you mean 'Retarded Production Plans'?

The Federation dicked up their MS Production from the get go by arming GM's with Beam Spray Guns.

They could've been using BOWA, or some more powerful derivation.

I'm a spacenoid through and through but they fucked up by giving them basically the same gun that the DOM incorporates in it's chest.

>>14744049
Zeon is a force for change.
EF is a force for maintaining the status quo, for stagnancy.
Plus the Zeon are way cooler. Zakus are really powerful and GMs suck.

File: rgm-79-beamspraygun.jpg (62KB, 270x200px) Image search: [Google]

62KB, 270x200px

>>14744096
>Beam Spray Gun = Scattering Beam Gun

You're so wrong it hurts.
The Beam Spray Gun is equivalent to the Beam Rifle in nearly every way, with the main differences being range, spread, and cost. It was powerful enough to, like the Beam Rifle, down an enemy MS in one shot. Yet here you are complaining about it as if it were the literal chest flashlight Doms have.

But that's not even the best part. You say this as you address one ""issue"" of the GM's life where Zeon meanwhile had to dick around with a million and a half different specialized MS, variants, or wunderwaffen where the Federation won the war with a single general purpose MS and conventional arms.

>>14744159
>where the Federation won the war with a single general purpose MS
And BALLS.
Don't forget the BALLS.

File: tumblr_nv8w04Figm1uojkndo1_1280.jpg (659KB, 1280x1851px) Image search: [Google]

659KB, 1280x1851px

>>14744166
It takes balls to pilot them, but they pay off.

>>14744159
Holy fuck, relax. I was being facetious.

The BSG is still objectively shit, I'd rather pack a Shell based weapon any day then hope my beam-projectile-vomit can do the job an actual beam rifle can.

Plus there was nothing wrong with the 'million and a half' specialized Suits/Variants.

Things like the Gouf were superb for combating the Ground Gundams, and things like that.

While the Federation 'Variant Bonanza' isn't exactly apparent, it still exists as well, regardless of the original MSG's GM Rush being the true canon or not.

>>14744152
While Zeon is 2cool4school, the Zaku is outclassed by the GM up until the Zaku Kai/GM Kai... which are almost equal in statistics.

>>14744184
kek

>BSG is still objectively shit
Proofs.

>nothing wrong with a million and a half specializations and variants
Oh, but it is wrong. You know those aquatic MS zeon made? They worked great, and generally were better than anything the feddies had in the department. However, they were dedicated to a front unimportant to the big picture. If I had it now I'd show you, but it's straight-up been acknowledged that Zeon's focus on, for example, aquatic MS led to overall losses, specifically in this case of materials better dedicated to the space front. This is also besides how generally speaking, a singular mass-produced unit that needs the same supplies and spare parts as its compatriots is better than ten of the same thing, especially when they're all different. Needing lots of different supplies, spares, etc. for lots of different machines is inefficiency and loss, and by the time Zeon tried to fix this via the UMP, the war was as good as over.

>Things like the Gouf were superb for combating the Ground Gundams, and things like that.
You mean "spider gouf uses his physics-erasing magic to dupe some suddenly-dumb protags: the montage"? Yeah, fuckin' great. I should stop here since it seems like you've only watched 08th MS. Gouf Custom =/= Gouf

GM variants exist, yes, but here's the thing; they're still GMs. Meanwhile Zeeks have to fiddle around with not only Zakus, but also Doms, the aforementioned vanilla Goufs (supplanted by Doms but still used), Z'Goks, Acguys, Goggs, and other machines on top of that. That's a lot of different machines, most too separate in their needs to really share supplies and in too many variations to ease production. This is also all without mentioning fucking Zeek internal backstabbing and Zabi bickering.

File: GM Tornado.jpg (384KB, 800x600px) Image search: [Google]

384KB, 800x600px

>>14744184
A Beam Spray Gun has the same basic performance as a Beam Rifle at close range, which is where most fighting will be done. Ballistic weapons don't have the sheer penetrative power of a Beam weapon, even something like the Beam Spray Gun and its lower grade focusing coil.

Unless its Earth, beams are already fucked under atmospheric conditions.

>>14744216
What about the "MUH LUNAR TITANNIUMS CAN BLOK BOULETS"

Or the Guncannon's niggermagic 'Anti Bazooka field'? Oh wait, that doesn't exist for the Gud Gaiz right?

Aside from that Zaku were horrendously interchangeable. You could go slapping Gouf arms on Desert Zaku for all that it mattered. Your whole 'similar parts/supplies' spheal is utter BS.

"Only watched 08th MS"
Lol
Gouf Custom is shit. The pilot makes the most of nearly every MS. Look at what happened to the Mudcuck.

While the dude below you [whom I am going to thank for not blowing a fuse like you have] is correct in it's statistics, the BSG's effective range isn't as great as most weapons on the field.

Any good pilot would notice your little beam scattergat and effectively shift into reverse to stay away from you.

While GM were shat out in copious numbers, they still weren't faster than DOM, HMT Zaku, Gelgoog and so forth. Even on the ground suits like the Desert Zaku and Gouf were easily out of range if they needed to be, let alone rarer suits like the Efreet.

All I'm saying is: The BSG is the EFSF/GF's way of jewing the Federation pilots out of a more survivable deployment. It's legitimately all about money.

A good reason for Jaburo not being lost to Zeon [Aside from Amuro/WB crew] was the fact that the GM in the base had access to the Gundam's weapons, because Jaburo obviously had alot of that shit.

>>14744220
While you're right, anything that decides to stay out of that minimum range is effectively safe.

>>14744247
Tbf the Jagdwerner was a fucking monster

>>14744247
Most of the damage done to the MS was panzerfausts and bazookas, besides they were all using ballistic weapons because beam weapons in a colony can cause catastrophic colony failure by punching through the side or making a MS reactor explode.

File: Gelgoog.jpg (80KB, 600x800px) Image search: [Google]

80KB, 600x800px

>>14744049
Let's be honest here zenon is out gunned in every way early years zenon has very few beam shooter ms's only managing to produce pic related and even then it's small production and very few made. On the feedie side shitting out beam shooter suits out the ass for desert,water, land and in space proposes.

>>14744247
Literally nobody said though it could be inferred from >>14744184

>>14744253
What does literally any of this have to do with what I wrote.

Luna Titanium being better than so many other variants of armor is a part of Gundam on the whole. Anti Bazooka field? What? Zaku parts on other Zakus invalidate an argument about wholly different MS?

And what's this about "notice" anything? This is Gundam- you can't exactly kill stuff from far away very easily. You're drawing up this entirely fictional situation to argue here.

I wasn't even angry! Man, I just thought you were wrong- so far you still seem to be so.

>>14744276
>MS-06R-2P

>>14744282
>Gundam: "The bullets bounce right off!"
>Guncannon: "I think Bazooka rounds are magnetized to explode before they even hit it!"

And in reference to what you said about the 'spider gouf using his physics-erasing magic'

Also my argument to your BSG comment was at the bottom, and your rebut on the variants not being practical for maintenance/resupply purposes was with the interchangable parts.

While I didn't post it in the same order you did, how do you not connect the dots.

>>14744257
That's pretty stupid thinking, especially since we don't know the maximum distance needed to be "safe" and while that makes you safe from specifically the Beam Spray Gun you're still vulnerable to other hazards like someone using a full sized Beam Rifle.

>>14744280
Mikhail used the shotgun almost exclusively for the colony defense forces that used something like a Junior MS, it does use it on a Guncannon MP Type and it has little visible effect. It discards the shotgun and takes the Guncannon and accompanying GM Command out with a panzerfaust.

>>14744303
To find the minimum safe distance, you proceed to get the fuck away until you're sure it doesn't ouch anymore.

How is that stupid.

And we're speaking situationally. In regard to the BSG and RGM-79 being the 99% that broke Zeon's back [even though it was WB Crew]

>>14744301
>"the bullets bounce right off"
I was saying that that's how it was supposed to be. That's literally how it is. I still don't know why this has anything to do with what was being discussed.

>I think Bazooka rounds are magnetized to explode before they even hit it!
This sounds like the bazooka rounds are the ones with fields here dude.

Your sentence on the spider gouf seems incomplete. Please finish typing next time.
I already mentioned your variant rebut was incorrect- Zakus with Zaku parts aren't going to fix your broken Doms, nor any other zeek MS. My argument still stands.

>>14744313
You're making a lot of assumptions here that don't make any sense. I'm not going to argue with you any longer.

>>14744319
It sure does, but the Guncannon MP is still operational and only 3-4 areas penetrated and the rest of the scene is the Kampfer using the panzerfaust to destroy it.

>>14744319
The Guncannon is still operating.

>>14744333
Isn't the United Maintenance Plan Zeon's attempt at streamlining production lines and field maintenance by having models share commonality in parts, so it was obviously a problem they tried to address.

>>14744369
That's exactly why I mentioned it earlier; it was too little too late for an already established problem. The damage was done, the war was won- by the Feds.

>>14744152
>Zeon is a force for change.
>change
>Just want to replace one group of corrupt fucks with another group of corrupt fucks who happen to be crazy and genocidal in addition to being corrupt

I wish this stupid 'Zeon=change' meme would just die.

>>14744384
Fuckin' this.

>>14744394
More efficient at what?

>>14744384
>Just want to replace one group of corrupt fucks with another group of corrupt fucks
AND move the remainder of humanity off of earth. The ideology was of humanity leaving the nest of our birth and venturing out into the cosmos, not just sitting on our asses eating banquet dinners in europe while Haman Karn drops a colony on Ireland.

Not that I expect a federast to understand anything other than "they're trying to oust our leaders!"

File: HT01B_Magella_Attack.jpg (66KB, 469x393px) Image search: [Google]

66KB, 469x393px

>>14744409
Wrong again on 2/3 counts.

>>14744409
>Politics
They have just as many factions in their government as the Federation, but they're dumb and violent where the Federation is just lazy.
>MS development and even fighting.
but they lost, and having 3 different frontline fighting MS and 4 one off MA and several one off MS or specialized MS is not efficient

>>14744416
Why do you disparage Fedfags so?

>>14744434
Lotta combat in there bud.
Sure proved me wrong.

>>14744437
FOR THE GLORY OF ZEON.

>>14744445
Not him, but anime ja nai

File: Zeon's_Noble_Goal.jpg (169KB, 720x1908px) Image search: [Google]

169KB, 720x1908px

>>14744416
>AND move the remainder of humanity off of earth.

The Zabis never cared about moving humanity off Earth, you retard. They even wanted it for themselves (why do you think they invaded it?).

>Inb4 Muh Gihren's Greed ending

That ending contradicts Gihren's stated plan in canon and was obviously written so fascist wankers like you wouldn't need to feel guilty at the thought of Space Hitler winning.

>>14744460
>a trailer featuring MS proves my point!
I don't understand what exactly you want to achieve here.

The Earth Federation held up on Earth for so long precisely because of their proficiency in conventional combat where Zeon lacked skill or even good conventional arms. Mobile Suits changed the war and turned it in Zeon's favor in space- on land, Zakus were not enough. This is the explicit reason for the Gouf and Dom's existence.

>>14744476
>goalpost_dancing_from_side_to_side.jpg

>>14744468
>screenshot mentions nothing about settling on earth
>show mentions nothing about settling on earth
>anon's soul is held down by gravity
>adults and your LIES!

This is why I insult feddies. You cannot grasp any concept other than "DEY GON TERK OUR JERBS!" and assume that the Zeon secretly didn't care about their own ideals and really just wanted to turn into Feddies. That's how self-centered you are.

>>14744473
>Not drawing out the stalemate and rebuilding their forces and then blitzing Luna II before dropping it on Earth.
>Not causing Kessler Syndrome to blockade the Earth and cut if off from space
>Nope, obviously the BEST way to beat the EF is to invade the largest celestial body in the Earth Sphere when we have deficiencies in manpower and resources, stretch out our logistics and supply lines and fight the Earthnoids in an environment where they have better numbers, experience in fighting and knowledge of the terrain.

Truly Zeon's genius and competence knows no bounds.

>>14744476
>Without Gundam's data, GM will remain shit and aces and MA from Zeon would massacre the lot of them.
Not really. Ground Gundams and Ground GMs didn't have that data, they were deployed before the gundam's learning computer handed data over at Jaburo and they worked just fine. Likewise goes for the GM E-type early types from Luna II.

The Gundam's data definitely helped but it wasn't the decisive factor, the federation already had MS figured out for the most part, the Gundam's data just helped make piloting a little easier, but as we see in MSG even the Gundam with no combat data could be easily piloted by a young teen with 0 piloting experience.

>>14744495
That was never the discussion being had in the first place. >>14744500 has also pointed out how this isn't really true.

>>14744497
Not him
Settling on earth is an additional tenet not included in MSG, but a decided goal of the Zabis.

>>14744506
>not included in MSG, but a decided goal
Decided by whom?
You?
Some video game writer?
fanfiction.net?

>>14744504
>Zeon is also dumb on this, space has more resources than Earth.
Which needed a lot of time to stage. On Earth they could take over feddie resources. Axis was a major Zeon mining base and most likely Pezun too as it was a site for MS development and manufacturing. I think there's a good chance Solomon, ABQ, etc. were also used to mine resources but I don't think it's ever talked about so safe to assume they weren't.

More importantly, Zeon was just a single side, which apparently wasn't even unilaterally aligned with the Zabis' government. You're talking about a single cluster of space colonies against a global government which was "allied" (more like controlled) the rest of the sides. Of course Zeon had less resources, their resources (tools, manpower, etc.) to start were a fraction of what the federation had. Space having more resources than Earth has nothing to do with it when you have 1/100 the men to extract resources.

>>14744504
>their goal is to end the Fed, not massacre earthnoids.

Yeah, that's why they keep dropping colonies on them.

>>14744049

WHY FEDDIES ALL ROOK SAME!????

File: snapshot_dvd_02.14.20_[2013.07.15_23.54.30].jpg (67KB, 720x480px) Image search: [Google]

67KB, 720x480px

>>14744497
>>screenshot mentions nothing about settling on earth

The fact that they invaded it is enough, you retard. And I didn't say anything about settling it, I said they wanted to control it and rule it, but apparently reading comprehension is no a Zeonfags strong suit.

>You cannot grasp any concept other than "DEY GON TERK OUR JERBS!"

I don't even know what the fuck you're going on about here.

>Zeon secretly didn't care about their own ideals

Gihren states Zeon's 'ideals' several times throughout the series. There's a lot abouyt how Zeon are the Superior Race who should rule mankind. There's nothing there about moving people into space. That was all Char and his crazy father.

>>14744529
it was supposed to just take out a military base IJaburo). The only reason it came down in three pieces on New Yark, Central Europe, and Australia was because they tried to destroy it. They deflected it away from their HQ but made the environmental impact worse.

File: Char_Genocidal_asshole.jpg (79KB, 1280x688px) Image search: [Google]

79KB, 1280x688px

>>14744529
Char disagrees with you.

>>14744540
>The fact that they invaded it is enough, you retard.
Is Iraq the 51st state?
Are Americans going to settle in Syria?
Yeah, didn't think so.

>>14744547
>And I didn't say anything about settling it, I said they wanted to control it and rule it, but apparently reading comprehension is not a Zeonfags strong suit.

>>14744540
>hat was all Char and his crazy father.
...and everyone else in Side 3 who decided to rename their colony after Char's "crazy father" (It was Munzo before that).

You DO realize that Degwin was a part of that cult, right? Tha's why most people believed Degwin when he claimed that ZZD appointed him as his successor as the leader *OF THAT CULT*.

>>14744553
>reading comprehension is not a Zeonfags strong suit.
My reading comprehension is better than your memory, federast.
>>14744506
>Settling on earth is an additional tenet not included in MSG, but a decided goal of the Zabis
Your next post will be:
>B-BUT THAT WASN'T ME

>>14744049
EF
I don't think the EF should govern the space colonies, but Zeon's way of handling things is just the worst.

>>14744572
I'm the guy who made the second post actually.
I'm not the first guy.

>>14744556
>shifting goalposts: The reply

This is why Zeonfags can never win debates. Logic, reason, facts and simple human decency are against them so they always resort in the end to name calling and shouting out meaningless slogans and propaganda. Just like the Space Nazis they idolize can't win a war even when they resort to indiscriminate mass murder and genocide.

>>14744572
>post literally starts wuth 'Not him'
>Lol, you're the same guy

Are you Black_Knight? Because he's the only one retarded enough to think everyone replying to him is the same person.

>>14744049
Would you consider Neo Zeon seperate from Zeon? because i'm just here for Char and Zakus in all honesty lmao

>>14744598
>retarded enough to think everyone replying to him is the same person.
You realize you're doing that right now, right?
Just saiyan.

>>14744610
He isn't though, he's using a comparison to insinuate you're -really- retarded, because he only knew one who was as retarded as Black_Knight.

If I were him I'd be saying "well, now I know two", and shit, now I do too.

>>14744619
Okay.
Nice to see you've dropped this stupid argument about Zeon wanting to settle earth because you were called out on the complete lack of evidence for it.

Feel free to insult an anonymous post some more, or maybe come back with some actual facts to add to the debate.

>>14744445
Wrong. Gihren, Kycilia and Dozle all have their own factions. Gihren and Kycilia tend to see eye to eye (while secretly plotting against each other), while Kycilia and Dozle openly despise each other (which is why M'Quve denied Ramba Ral his Doms and why Dozle was stupid enough to delay requeting reinforcements from Kycilia when Solomon came under attack). Which is why I don't get where this 'Look how competent Zeon is!' Meme is coming from. Screwing over your war effort over petty personal politics is exactly the definition of INCOMPETENCE. Are Zeonfags really this deluded?

File: LAUGH LOOK AT HIM AND LAUGH.jpg (238KB, 632x483px) Image search: [Google]

238KB, 632x483px

>>14744152
>Zakus are really powerful and GMs suck.
Anon, quit sucking Zeonic's dick, GMs outperform most Zaku models in literally every way, and both job equally hard against major characters, Char is quite right to say "its the pilot that counts"
>>14744402
Mass Murder

>>14744644
Only if you take some non-canon side story manga that hasn't even been translated yet into account, which is also contradicted by other sources of questionable but arguably higher canonicity like Gaia Gear (written by Tomino) or G Saviour (filmed work).

>>14744686
>Muh Bad Writing

This is literally the depths of which Zeonfag arguments have sunk to. Also whining about bad writing from the actual creator because it doesn't fit your headcanon just shows how deluded you are.

>>14744637
not him, but If Zeon wasn't going to take over Earth, why the fuck were Earthnoid businessmen brownnosing Garma at the party? It was so they could get an edge for rebuilding and maybe major contracts from the Zeon government once the war ended.

>>14744732
>Gundam is a cartoon show made by a dude, it's not reality, it can be called for bad writing.

Except reality has that 'bad writing' in spades too. Zeon is based on Imperial Japan and Imperial Japan had well known factionalism and infighting between the IJA and IJN. The Zabi factionalism of Zeon is meant to reflect that, which you would know if you weren't an adolescent retard whining about 'bad writing' because it doesn't reflect your headcanon.

>>14744826
Y'know if WWII never happened people would never believe something like the Axis could exist cause it sounds like something out of a comic book, and a lot of what Germany did during that time period is pretty fucking similar to Zeon, so no, its really not that unrealistic cause it actually happened
>spends time making ridiculous super weapons that never work and never saw actual mass production, enacted the genocide of several groups in the human race as a scapegoat for their problems, and while they did make several scientific advancements that we use today, they're still recognized as horrible for what they did

>>14744826
Nobody tried to kill Tojo because he'd already been sidelined before the end of the war.

>>14745133
Don't forget about that plot to kill Hitler that only failed due to a really durable wooden desk. If it happened in fiction the retarded Tominorager would probably be whining about deus ex machina and bad writing.

File: 11426747.png (18KB, 294x278px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 294x278px

>>14744049
Zeon.

Mono-eye is the superior design and I've wanted to live in space since I was 4.

Also natural soft spot for the underdogs.

>>14745210
>the axis can never exist in real life
Ok I think I'm done responding after that

File: X2and1.jpg (160KB, 970x546px) Image search: [Google]

160KB, 970x546px

>>14744049
>>14744056

Its the Pirates Life for me

File: girl name.gif (959KB, 245x245px) Image search: [Google]

959KB, 245x245px

>>14744049
Titans

>>14745220
Human beings who had plenty of monsters among them, don't try to sugar coat things like SS troops executing an entire French village for the simple reason of "they're French so they must be supporting and hiding the resistance members who keep fucking with us" or god forbid things like Unit 731.

File: 11435494.gif (498KB, 250x191px) Image search: [Google]

498KB, 250x191px

>>14745224
>the sentence that killed everybody

>>14745220
Okay, you need to go back to /pol/ now and stop shitting up /m/ with your bullshit.

>>14745293
>if Jerid had just kept his mouth shut, the Neo Zeon Wars wouldn't have happened and the Federation wouldn't have collapsed

>>14745352
FIDF/FedInternetDefenseForce Detected

>>14745352
Get outta here, Renpoo scum.

>>14744709
>Anon, quit sucking Zeonic's dick
I was quoting Al from 0080, stupid.
>>14744725
>nevermind what everyone in Zeon says are their goals, let me just conjecture for a minute
Sure, they were trying to get in good with Garma and Zeon, but for all you know they were trying to get contracts for colony construction not earth reconstruction. You're just guessing, and in doing so you're ignoring one of the stated goals of every iteration of Zeon.
(sorry for the late reply, I went to sleep)

>>14744049
EF because fuck dictatorships and gassing/nuking billions of people. They're also inept so when I go for MY rebellion against their shitty one world order, it's going to succeed. I just have to be the good guy, not target civilians, etc and I'll be fine.

>>14744056
>Supporting absolute monarchy and not constitutional monarchy with a strong elected legislature.

It's like you want to be trash. It's not like the Ronahs are proper royalty anyway; they're businessmen with delusions of grandeur because they got cash.

>>14744049
Char's Neo Zeon. True revolutionary power of spacenoids. Unlike the rest of the Zeon groups, they want to remove the Earth from the politics and economics.
They have Sazabi - the perfect mobile suit.
They have Rewloola - the cutest ship.
The director of Newtype labs is pretty hot.

>>14745519
>You're just guessing, and in doing so you're ignoring one of the stated goals of every iteration of Zeon.

Please state where in the anime that the Principality's goal was to move people into space.

As for the Earth Invasion, Origin has Kycilia state (when sending M'Quve to negotiate at Antarctica) that Zeon's goal is to conquer Earth to control it's wealth and land.

>>14745538
No, we need direct democracy and newtypisation of humans

>>14745542
>Origin
>canon
Anon, plz.

>>14744205

> never show violent retaking
> what are the Titans
> implying that such violence is even necessary when Side 3 became staunchly anti-Zeon after the war
> implying that any such violence could stack up against killing half of humanity

>>14745546
>Newtypization of humans

I'd rather not have most humanity end as a bunch of over emotional autists, thank you.

>>14745548
It will be canon once it gets animated.

>>14745552
On a territory of the colony (around a town or two) direct democracy wil work well.
>>14744205
>is suppressing nationalism on both Earth
Like it's a bad thing.
>>14745560
Char wasn't overemotional. Judau was pretty well in keeping his emotions under control. Lalah was fine.

>>14745581
>powers are to be dispersed, not to be centralized
Tell this to the Louis XIV.
>Nationalism disperses power through various nations.
More like "gives another justification for the war for land and resources for the sake of the local companies"

>>14745592
Companies growing into global monopolies is a natural course of history.

>>14745602
>Russia
>Isolated
Yeah, I see huge amounts of foreign goods while our national industry produces food, tanks, trains, planes and uniform.
>Only when free trade is allowed.
Business finds it's way.

>>14745568

> imagine

That's not actually what the Titans were. The Titans were a physical manifestation of all the worst excesses of power and it's ability to corrupt, but purging or defeating them didn't magically make the EF or the EFSF sparkling white. They were both still full of issues in ZZ, CCA, F91 and Victory. And while you can imagine every colony has to be violently retaken following Spacenoid movement during jour's defeat (a) the animation disagrees with you since some, like Side 3 are stated to willing turn on their former leaders and (b) violent retaking even when it does happen is difficult to imagine as being more violent than the death of half of humanity. Or do you think half of humanity lives on a couple of colonies and the Federation killed them all in an effort to retake them?

Never mind that most colonies were destroyed in the One Year War and couldn't be retaken following it, that few had to retaken following the Gryps conflict, both Neo Zeon Wars and the Formula War given their nature as smaller rebellions and that even the Zanscare conflict, which was the only major war since the One year War was smaller than it and that the Federation was severely weakened by the time it started (hence why it started), and that their martial strength and ability to violently retake anything by the end of it, when even their own forces had to disobey them and help a resistance group just to defeat Zanscare and the EF struggled to field a decent fleet despite them. Its unlikely any retaking would necessitate millions dying given that, never mind billions.

>>14745624

Speaking of missing the point, I literally never said that they didn't use violence, only that if they did it's unlikely to be nearly as bloody as the violence the former masters themselves perpetrate - because doing so is physically impossible in some cases, because doing so is unnecessary when the people actively welcome the Federation and because the math doesn't work out even if they kill every single person there to take it considering how many died in the major conflicts.

>>14745616
Our industry is pretty globalized since we produce foreign car models. Here's the list of 2015. http://www.euro-auto-history.ru/greate-russia.html
>Fine, look at North Korea.
North Korea is a pretty closed country to judge about it. Some people think that the country is doing fine, while some people belive in the grotesque myths about executions with an AA gun or something.
About economy and globalisation: according to this article (https://vc.ru/p/north-korea), foreign companies have right to create partnerships with state facilities.

>>14745642
>How about Cuba?
Cuba is about to open for foreign business and goods.
>Isolated countries always have strong national industries that can produce their own stuff instead of buying shit made by other countries.
The entire Warshaw Pact was relying on the trading inside the pact countries and with the Non-Aligned countries.

>>14745637

So you think the Feds killed billions to take one Side despite the fact that each colony only houses maybe a few million even if they're over capacity and crammed full of people? And that they killed more people in taking them than the entire war that had just ended? Even when the Federation is demonstrably weak and struggling not just to control it's army but to field force of any kind?

>>14745652

It doesn't matter if there are more people in space than on Earth (something that was also true in early UC regardless), that colonies are easy to destroy (never mind that you can't retake one if you destroy it) or that there are more colonies, because colonies are built house a fairly specialist number of people regardless so there'd need to be more colonies, not more people in each individual one to ge more people. And while there probably are more colonies, even if you put ten million people in each colony (and 1 million in max capacity if I recall) you still need to completely wipe out 100 colonies just to hit a billion. And there's nothing indicating there even are 100 colonies a Side, never mind that the Feds wiped out that many.

I'm well aware that occupying Germany and other states following war is a violent time, which is why I never said there was no violence - but such occupations never visit the kind of death the previous wars contained on the occupied state. So saying that the Feds must have been even more violent than Zeon or Zanscare to take the colonies back because of those historical examples is just bizarre.

>>14745671

History also shows us that that wasn't an occupation of a country that had lost the war and it's government. It was bloody precisely because there was an organised defence with a solid authority that could mount systmetatic resistance. Which a defeated enemy with no government and central authority can't do. And yes, my point all along has been that less died in recapture and occupation than in the preceeding war. We don't have death tolls for the Zanscare conflict, but we don't need them because unless they completely cleanse or destroyed multiple overstuffed colonies the death toll can't even hit millions. Which there assuredly were that many died in a multi-colony, multiple front war that took several years like the Zanscare one.

>>14745682

Oh, and it also wasn't "retaking", since Germany never had Russia to begin with. It was an invasion, which has much different implications. Including that there'll be much less sympathy on the part of the invaded countries populace and far fewer people within the country (or colony) helping them or sympathetic to what they're doing. Which is why Side 3 is such a good example, given that they helped the the Titans willingly despite orders. Zanscare were presumably less helpful on the whole, but they assuredly had people who wanted the Federation back in charge even with the fervour you mention.

>>14745695

A remnant isn't a central authority. No matter how good they are they won't have the capability or influence they had as an actual government. And no, we don't assume the Federation itself lost more - we assume more people died full stop. Federation soldiers, Zanscare soldiers and citizens of each side. You feel free to imagine the Federation had to kill more just to take those colonies back, why am I not free to make assumptions based on in story reasoning and logic? Like that a war that took several years, had multiple fronts and involved multiple colonies could kill more people than the retaking of one Side? Just like every historical example ever. Which the one example you mentioned doesn't fit since its neither a retaking or fighting against a militia but a full blown government.

>>14745715

A semblance of authority isn't the same thing as being an actual working government. Which is putting aside that Maria only had influence over anyone for maybe 10 years. And that's not just counting the totality of Zanscare's rein (only 4 years) or counting back to when she met Fonse Kagatie (8 years prior to the show), it's counting back to when she was a popular social icon for her healing and no more.

And there are certainly people older than 10 within Side 2 to have a different opinion of her or Zanscare. Which, given their propensity to use the guillotine and space walks as punishment, even on their own people, there will certainly be, considering a large section of the population will remember life before Zanscare and it's war.

Only you are pushing numbers by the way. I'm responding to you, but only because you keep talking about how millions or even billions must have died in every reoccupation. My point has been all along that the number killed in said reoccupations can never match the number killed in the preceding war,which history validates, since no reoccupation in history by one army over territory they held till recently has ever been even close to as bloody as the war that annexed it. No matter how fanatical it's followers were.

And that it's basically impossible in most cases, since Zeon killed half of humanity and destroyed most colonies outright, so how could the Federation top that? They'd have to exterminate everyone, themselves included just to match it.

The following wars, like Gryps and Formula were all small ones involving one or two colonies and maybe some asteroids or something, so there's not much to retake and no real fanaticism involved. Unless you think the people were fanatical for Crossbone after they launched the bugs or something?

>>14745746

Which leaves only Zanscare. And hence why were arguing them in particular I imagine. Zanscare were at war for several years on multiple fronts and even when it started the EF had lost control of much of Earth, didn't have much of a fleet and were really only prominent on the Moon. So how do you think they could match the death toll of even a conservative estimate of the Zanscare War?

>>14745671
>Fine, how many did Zanscare kill again?
Well their goal was pretty much everyone on earth, since it's understood that they'd all die after having their minds completely erased by the Angel Halo. Sure, they didn't achieve that goal, but that was still their endgame.

Though even if successful, it wouldn't have matched the death toll of the One Year War because there weren't 5.5 billion people on earth in Victory.

>>14745660
>1 million in max capacity if I recall
You do not recall correctly. The original Oneill Island 3 Cylinders were designed to have a capacity of 10 million per pair of cylinders. Gundam usually forgets that they need to be in pairs to be stable and still states that their colonies have a capacity of 6-10 but almost always show a single cylinder (Gundam Historica). Then there are the closed-type cylinders wihich have twice the habitable surface area.

It is true that the only instance in early UC of the population of a single cylinder is mentioned is when the narrator states (in the english dub) that one and a half million people had to be relocated from the cylinder that was being made into the Colony Laser, but I've been told that this is a mistranslation and I don't speak moon so idk. Even if it's true, that would be a very low population for even a regular sized open type Island 3 type colony. Also there has never been a complete list of how many cylinders are in each Side. We know that during the OYW there was only one recently built cylinder at Side 7, we know that there are at least 30 pairs in Side 1 during Zeta, 21 in Side 2 during Zeta, and 38 in Side 3 during the One Year War because there are references to "30 Bunch", "21 Block", and "Colony38".

So if you go by the irl capacity of 5 million per cylinder and assume that 30 Bunch was the highest numbered pair in Side 1 that would be 300 million in Side 1. Side 3's 38 pairs of closed-type colonies could theoretically hold about a billion and a half people.

>>14745796
>It is true that the only instance in early UC of the population of a single cylinder is mentioned is when the narrator states (in the english dub) that one and a half million people had to be relocated from the cylinder that was being made into the Colony Laser
In CCA, Amuro says Londenion is an "old city" of about 5 million.

>>14744049
The Earth Federation
Sure they are ruled by bunch of corrupt individuals as pointed out in Z, ZZ, and F91, but holy hell the fact EF simply wont copulate nor surrender to the incoming zanscare forces and rather fought to the last man or at least destroy the Angel Halo get me hard every time.

EF is like your dad. Sure you hate him and he kinda disappointed in you but when you are in deep shit, you can bet your ass your dad will come to the rescue and expect nothing in return but only to call him your dad

File: image.jpg (552KB, 1115x1090px) Image search: [Google]

552KB, 1115x1090px

Earth
Id rather not be some dirty space traitor
Also cooler suits

>>14746192
>I didn't watch Victory

Elements of the EFF assist the LM throughout the series, several times saving Uso and friends from getting killed (like the Javelins that help them escape from Zanscare or the Attack Boats that help Uso against Bike Guy). You'd know that if you weren't a drooling retard.

>>14746192
>Join the war after the tide has turn

M8 EF has been supporting LM ever since its creation. From derelict Battleship and its captain to its MS team. LM play a pivotal part like White Base was during OYW, Distraction.

While LM struggles fighting ZE on Earth, EF was mustering its strength in space and when the red tape finally lifted EFSF won every engagement against ZE and nearly won the war until ZE sue for a temporary truce.

>Corward
Nah, Victory potrayal of EF was nothing of a cowardice, they have a choice to surrender when they are losing their grasp on the colonies and nearly 0 fighting force left to protect earth but they still hanging on biding their time. When EF finally learn the effect of Angel Halo they committed every single ship to intercept it and destroy it before it can be use on Earth

>>14744081
Yeah but a lot of zeon women suck

>>14746310
Of course they suck, its how they get their positions and titles because they certainly don't get it on merit.

File: Not this shit again.jpg (113KB, 850x544px) Image search: [Google]

113KB, 850x544px

>>14745548
>Origin is not canon meme
>Pic related

File: Byaralant zeta.png (794KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

794KB, 1280x720px

>>14746184
>Also cooler suits
then its titans or crossbone vanguard

File: mg_funneleffect014.jpg (271KB, 1000x697px) Image search: [Google]

271KB, 1000x697px

neo zeon because it has my favoite suit?

>>14744049
Zeon, because monoeyes

File: 20140623220429-95579.jpg (37KB, 368x525px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 368x525px

>>14745541
I feel you

>>14748341
titans have mono-eyes.

File: A6g5IEDl.jpg (49KB, 640x360px) Image search: [Google]

49KB, 640x360px

>>14748359
Titans stealey-wheelie'd a Majority of Zeon's suits at the end of the OYW, especially from the Pezun Project.

Then Anaheim, but still it's technically a Zeonic trait. Then again, Anaheim ate Zeonic, Zimmand, etc.

Skirts, however.
DOM is thick.

File: 12823135_10204424607010372_817283187_o.jpg (91KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

91KB, 1920x1080px

To be fair the war should have ended in Zeon's favor.

If it wasn't for little ol' Gundam-Chan fucking eating every Ace it came across thanks to Amuro, it would've went fine.

Statistically the 78-2 should have lost to Ral when he hit the Gouf stage, or even harder so at the Tri-Stars.

While M'vase-quve isn't a super good pilot, the Gyan should've had a definate handle on the situation.

Then again with Char's Gelgoog.

Newtypes are broken, but that's literally all of the UC. Look at Banagher with his fucking crystal newtype meth.

I'll give the EFSF credit: The GM was really revolutionary for just a 'here lets shit this out' suit. Their armaments were similar to the Zeon's loadouts, except they favored beams over explosive weapons.

Zeon should've beat out the ground engagements, especially with their Battleships and advanced MS [such as the Gouf, Land-Based DOM and so forth].

The Federation had plenty of 'aces' themselves, but Zeon as a whole has been doing the whole MS gig for a fair amount of time comparatively.

I still think that the war would've been different at the end if the WB Crew died atleast after the Tri-Stars.

If Amuro was RIP back fighting Ral, the Zeon's probably could've stopped the Federal Forces at Solomon.

>>14744424
>Wrong again

Wow it's almost like Zeon didn't do anything useful.

Gee, like how the Federation/Titans absorbed Hizacks and Galbaldy after the war, right?

Zeon's MS Development was incredibly steadfast. You can't complain about variations because that's simply how they did it.

MSV/MSX is still a thing, and the EFF still had tons of their own splintering variations of GM.

Don't be dense.

>>14748386
Even without Amuro, the GMs would still have steam rolled Zeon. The Federation won after recouping their strength through sheer numbers.
It doesn't matter if you have 5 zakus spread out over the place when the feddies are barreling down with 50 tanks.

Even if Zeon won at Solomon, the feddies would just come back again. At best taking out Amuro prolongs the war.

>>14748431
I'd like to see them complete the recapture of Odessa easily with the Tri-Stars, Ral and so forth stationed there.

I'd also like to see a group of jackoff GM's stop Lalah.

>>14748431
I can't really argue with the ground battles now that I think about it, at best the Federaton would have held Earth in the end... but Zeon should've dominated space.

>>14748437
You over estimate the effectiveness of a handful of aces. Odessa is inevitably going to face an unstoppable tidal wave of thousands of tanks backed by airpower and artillery. The best the aces can do is win a few tactical engagements but they can't be everywhere at once. So the Tri Stars blow up a few land battleships. That'll do jack all when Fed tanks punch through Zeon's lines in other areas of the front and overrun their Hq and resupply bases. Then they'll be screwed when they eventually run out of ammo. Same thing with Lalah. So she sinks a few ships and some scrub GMs. That won't stop the dozens of others who get past her from going on to overrun and finish off the Zeeks.

File: RGM-79 GM.jpg (564KB, 1280x1867px) Image search: [Google]

564KB, 1280x1867px

>>14748451
Not really.
Many have said it before, but the moment the war becomes one of attrition, the Federation is bound to win.

>>14748496
This guy gets it.

>>14748496
>Overestimate the Aces

>Amuro, any other Gundam pilot


Okay. Sure.

>>14748504
Amuro was backed by a ship which was intentionally used as a decoy, but besides things like Odessa with the nuke, he really wasn't winning the war for the federation.

Remember that scene where he realized exactly how little he'd done when he was running around blowing up M'Quve's mines? It's a little like that.

>>14748496
Take into account the fact that there was a spy disrupting the Federation forces in Odessa who was only uncovered by the White Base crew, and it was Amuro who stopped the nuke.

>>14748510
Being a distraction isn't exactly useless.

The majority of MSG was Zeon panic-shitting units, aces and all around resources that they should have utilized in other areas to chase down the Gundam and the White Base.

While I will still stand by my statement of Zeon not losing at Solomon, or atleast ABQ, The Gundam was a huge factor in a fair amount of Key conflicts for being just one Suit.

Earlier I did say that I redacted my statement about the ground battles, however.

>>14748518
This too.

>>14748510
While I'm not going to say that Jaburo was lost solely due to the WB crew being a factor, I'm sure that without meddling from Amuro and co. that Char and the sea creatures of Zeon would've fucked up alot more stuff in the base.

They wouldn't have easily recouped from the damages inside.

And referring back to Lalah, she would have done a fair amount more than just a 'few ships' and 'scrub GMs'.

Federation Battleships/Cruisers aren't exactly challenging to stop. Char became 'The Red Comet' for sinking Salamis on his own in, what, a Zaku I?

Sure, the EFF didn't have MS to stop them as easily at the time, but I'm sure a space wizard with wi-fi controlled mind lasers would have done a little more than you're saying.

>>14748437
>I'd also like to see a group of jackoff GM's stop Lalah.

>Put up a barrage of beams to wide that she can't possible dodge it
Ez GG

>>14744049
Fed takes place for actually having a brain.
Zeeks take grunt mech designs.

>inb4 muh Jim and other rank and file wankery.

>>14748543
>Newtypes

When did that ever stop any Newtype?
Especially in a Mobile Armor that can prevent the zoning required for BSG's to do dick by skewering them with Bits?

File: 11846615_918570388211220_5102859760690176553_n.jpg (111KB, 846x846px) Image search: [Google]

111KB, 846x846px

>>14748546
To be fair, Zeon had more than one brain.

...Which was the problem.

File: Zeon12.jpg (116KB, 500x600px) Image search: [Google]

116KB, 500x600px

Zeon because designs

>>14748518
And in the movie version of Odessa the Federation won it just fine without the White Base even showing up.

>>14748542
I refer to the Battle of A Bao A Qu. Char and his Zeong were blowing up warships and GMs left and right. That still didn't the bulk of the Feddies from breaking through Zeon's lines and landing at A Bao A Qu.

>>14748574
I don't think Char was suited for the Zeong in the end.

That and the Zeong didn't have __ Bits.

Semantics I know, but I still stand by my piece.

You can't tell me that [Assuming Ral, Tri-Stars/etc] survive their encounters and make it back after being scooped off of earth with a Gundam-brand spatula, they wouldn't make a difference in the fight.

I doubt the Aces would've been felled on Earth without the WB's interactions.

Maybe even Garma would have lived, but then again Char is a cunt.

Or maybe Garma's New Zeon.

But then again if I pull out Gihren's Ambition shit then really anything is possible.

>inb4 Tem Ray's faction

>>14748584
> That and the Zeong didn't have __ Bits.

If anything, the Zeong with its massive firepower is better suited to the kind of massed battle like A Bau A Qu. Elmeth's Bits seemed better suited to sniping and ambushes and probably wouldn't be quite as effective.

> You can't tell me that [Assuming Ral, Tri-Stars/etc] survive their encounters and make it back after being scooped off of earth with a Gundam-brand spatula, they wouldn't make a difference in the fight.

Please cease the tiresome Aces wanking. Zeon had an entire squad of elite ace pilots at A Bau A Qu (The Chimera Corps) and they still lost the battle. 3 or 4 more additional aces isn't going to change much.

>>14748584
Black tri stars aren't even that good

File: 13690857_1162200783860662_4025086927286093016_n.jpg (44KB, 480x477px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 480x477px

>>14748853
Compared to your average Pilot?

They were fantastic.

"Hey they're Ace Pilots but they're not that good."

>What

>>14748847
Provided that most of the defenders at A Baoa Qu were legitimately children stuffed in MS because most of the 'veteran' pilots were dead

Yeah, Yeah it would.

>>14748930
No seriously, they weren't that good. Could easily overwhelm them with numbers. They're not newtype massmurder machines with fancy tech like lala. Individual aces, even when taken together, are nothing in the face of a good war economy.

>>14748936
The way you're wording it is implying you'd be sending them alone.

An army of Lions lead by a Sheep will be beaten by an army of Sheep lead by Lions.

Even terms, every ace counts.

In a massive battle between two factions, the veteran units make all the difference. It's also been stated several times in most of the Gundam series that it's the pilot that counts, not the suit.

No shit that if the Tri-Stars fought like 40 dudes they'd lose.

That's true for anything. Your point is redundant.

>>14748940

Not him, but if the point is that even aces can be swarmed or simply ignored by the greater battle because there's a large field and they can only influence so much of it, then pointing out that numbers are important is absolutely relevant.

And the Federation had the numbers advantage at A Boa A Qu. Even after the colony laser. Even if they had all the aces Amuro faced, with beam weapons and whatever else they were still outnumbered and the majority of their fighting force was still composed of teens with little to no training. Mostly in Zaku IIs, because even if Zeon got the plans for better tech they didn't have the time or the resources to male use of them.

>>14749109

We have no idea, just that the Federation out numbered Zeon. And that they had older and better trained pilots, as well as better equipment on the whole.

>>14745542
Char wants all human life gone from earth

Earthnoids souls are weighed down by gravity

>>14749112

They also lose. All the time. Especially when it's a straight battle and the motivated side has lesser equipment, training, man power etc.

Which says nothing of the fact that the EF actually had motivation, given the colony drop, the color laser that just killed a load of their people and so on. Just because they were on the side of the status quo instead of rebellion doesn't mean they had no motivation and were just doing a job.

>>14749116

Daily reminder people didn't flock to them because of the Feds at all, but mostly flocked to Maria and her miracles.

>>14745568
This is a reoccuring theme in Gundam

in 00 the earth union is created to end all war but then the A laws take over

>>14749132

And your point depends both on ethereal factors and the fact that one side is more motivated than the other, with the second point being completely untrue.

As for Maria, yes, they do. That's one of the things Victory says. Which isn't hard when she's a head of state working apparent miracles with an entire political regime behind her to act as advertising.

>>14749143
Don't forget that the Jovians were apparently backing her as well. It isn't hard for a fringe religious movements to pick up steam when they're being backed by Helium-5 billions.

>>14749147

Having half your force wiped out by one shot can make you rather desperate too. Also, if someone is providing a miracle it doesn't matter how good your service is, some people will flock to it, because a miracle means you don't have to worry about messy things like lifestyle, recovery, money or whatever. Your problems are just fixed and that's that. Saying it could only happen because of sub standard service is just being naive.

>>14749102
And if you replaced the teens with veterans, whatever the number, that still increases your chance at victory.

Look at 300. While the Spartans lost, they fucked up the Persians something fierce.

It's a 'what if' scenario, not 'NOPE AUTO WIN'.

At least acknowledge that much.

>>14745233
never said the allies didn't do heinous things either, the big problem was it was much, much more prevalent with the Axis powers due to the mentality of superiority the Germans and Japanese fostered (and the revenge-happy Soviets but that's another thing).

>>14749116
>Incompetent
Yeah sure, most government will eventually become inept after years of constant warfare.

>Oppressive
You wot m8? The whole reason Zanscare came to power because EF was too lenient with the colony and let them rule themselves like petty nations within the Federation. Never once EF was potrayed as Oppressive, the whole reason they ship humanity to the colonies was so humanity can eventually govern themselves albeit under the supervision of the Federation so no "Muh Spacenoid" happen as everyone is equal within the Federation

>>14749147
The feds were only in control of earth and moon by that point retard. They finally let the colonies govern themselves and then the colonies went full bonkers. Honestly I wonder if the whole message of Gundam is that Humans need to be bound by Gravity.

File: aboaqu.jpg (426KB, 1714x780px) Image search: [Google]

426KB, 1714x780px

>>14749109
Have this .jpg. I have no fucking clue where it's from or if it's even canon.

File: canvas.png (37KB, 432x252px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 432x252px

>>14744049
I probably would've joined the Feds because Earth is the best part of the UC Earthsphere. If I survived the OYW, I'd probably would've thrown my hat in with the Titans. If I still managed to survive that and not get charged indecent behavior, I'd stick with the Feds if I'm not old enough to retire yet and try out for Londo Bell.

>>14751904
You're likely arguing with the same Vietnamese idiot from the Anaheim thread that thinks warlordism is a good thing.

First Black_Knight and now this retard. What is it about Zeon that attracts the worst sort of human trash?

>>14752006
>the same Vietnamese idiot from the Anaheim thread that thinks warlordism is a good thing.

He hasn't tried to rebuke my 30's china argument against warlordism yet, so either he's offline or the Vietnamese police arrested him as a dissident

>>14751930

Bandai commissioned a 1/7500 scale model of A Boa A Qu several years back, and that's a visual representation of what was included for each faction in the model. I've no idea if the included models wrw NGs, HGs or what. The image doesn't represent the actual battle or animation though, just what was in the scale model.

REMEMBER THE TITANS

>>14751930
Its missing the balls the Federal forces had, since I think each gm had 2 balls (giggity) assigned to it.

>>14758190

Because it's not and wasn't intended to be an accurate representation of the exact military strength of each faction.