Dub vs. Sub

>>14740935
It's very simple:
anime characters say a lot of dumb shit.

But when you don't hear them say it in your own language, it doesn't sound as cringeworthy, because you can always tell yourself "well maybe that sounds less ridiculous in that language I don't understand".

Same for all the weird vocal flexions that go hand in hand with voicing a cartoon character. You don't notice them as much when it's in a language you don't understand, so it doesn't make you wince as much.

That's really the core of the issue. Cartoon characters sound retarded when you understand them directly. Subs don't make anime "more enjoyable", they make anime less unenjoyable.

>>>/a/

>>14740939
No, you're fucking retarded just like your post.

>Cartoon characters sound retarded when you understand them directly
Are you telling me Mel Blanc sounds retarded? Fuck no. It comes down to talent and talent comes down to money. Good voice actors aren't working on fucking Naruto or some low budget Jap cartoon. They're doing real work that pays.

Meanwhile, Japan has a more competitive VA industry for anime so decent VAs actually voice cartoons over there. Anime in America is a joke for VAs and there is no money in it. Simple as that. Eat shit!

>>14740935
I don't personally care how someone enjoys their Japanese cartoons in the comfort of their own home.
However I prefer subs for my mecha anime because it's closer to what the original director intended. Watching a dub is like watchin a movie with all of the actors replace by the localisation guy.

>>14740939
I think the Japanese are able to make them sound more bearable in general though. It sounds odd hearing a school girl say something dumb when she sounds like 30 year old. I find that for whatever reason jap VAs are able to play those cutesy sort of characters more convincingly.

People on the internet like to argue about pointless shit, news at 11.

Both is the only way to go

>>14740960
When he's given retarded lines to work with, he sounds retarded, yes. And pretty much all anime have retarded lines.

That's inescapable.

>>14740935
When the script calls for a character to sound over the top, it sounds less cringey and stilted when you don't follow the inflections. Just listen to the dub from the new Tenchi ova and tell me Ayeka and Washu don't make you want to rip your ears off. There are plenty of good dubs, like Dimension W, but that has only been the case in the past 15 years or so.

>>14740935
The difference is anime voice acting is a competitive industry that breeds talent. The Western dubbing industry is viewed as a hobby that is ruled by nepotism so the same talentless fucks always get hired.

>>14740969
also, nobody in the West wants to become a voice actor. Nobody who's talented anyway. So most voice actors are just actors who were not good enough to become real actors.

>>14740935
Why wouldn't you watch something in its native dub?
>Dubbed anime is a major gateway for people who aren't particularly fans of it
pretty sure Crunchyroll and Netflix have blown past whatever influence some shitty company like Sentai or ADV (rip) in getting new anime fans.

>>14740966
>When he's given retarded lines to work with, he sounds retarded, yes.
You don't even know who Mel Blanc is without a google search you insipid slime.

>>14740975
It's also why western shows or big releases if movies get known actors because voice actors are actors. The issue is majority of Western voice actors are just bad.

>>14740935
>Japanese VA's: anime
>American VA's: video games and movies
Anime dubbing isn't for good voice actors.

>>14740976
>Sentai
They've never really done dubs. And I'm pretty sure Sentai is the reborn ADV (after they split into multiple companies for taxes purposes and to wrest control of the company from some douches).

Sub. No America VA can yell as well as the Japanese, and all the syllables of each attack need to be said.

>Roh-keh-to Pawnch
>Geh-tah Doh-Ree-Ruu
>Goh-ruu-dee-on Ham-mah
>Hahh-to Buu-ray-kah
>Baahh-kuu-netss Gohh-do Fiin-gahh

UK dubs or US dubs /m/?

Dubs in general just sound really bad at times.

The Japanese takes their voice acting seriously and have really good people doing them. The western side, not so much.

Also, the Japanese love their puns, those work only because of how pun-friendly japanese is. Some pun-based jokes just don't work that well in english since you have to change the line entirely sometimes.

>>14740935
Firstly, people will argue about anything. Secondly, most folks in the 12 to man-child age bracket are unwilling to accept that people like things they don't.
Mostly, however, it usually comes down to the pro-subs guys pointing to all the terrible dubs out there and going "SEE, NEVER GIVE DUBS A CHANCE, SUBS FOR LIFE!" -when nodody really gives a shit.

Usually pro-sub guys start it, and pro-dub guys call them idiots, and then it just goes in a circle.

In truth though:
Good Dubs > Subs > Bad Dubs

>>14741033
Don't try to be the neutral voice, dubfag.

It's kinda weird to see people say dubs have only gotten good recently, because I completely disagree. Recently almost every dub has been from either Sentai, who are utter trash, Funimation, who consistently produce passable but not particularly great results, or Bang Zoom, who are very hit-or-miss. Animaze (rip in piece) was the peak of quality, especially in the late 90s to early 2000s. I also have recently found myself enjoying a lot of Streamline's work like the Cobra and Golgo 13 movies despite their reputation.

>>14741002
Mid-90s Manga UK dubs like Patlabor 2 and Cyber City are fucking great, but pretty much every dub Brits have done in the past ten years has been trash. See: Millenium Actress and Wakfu.

I don't care how good or bad a dub sounds, I'll always go with the original audio if it's available to me. This goes for everything, not just anime. If I watch Asterix the Gaul, it's going to be in fucking French.

People who are too retarded to read vs people who universally see the spoken english language as shit

>>14741078
That's a pretty reasonable position to take, but what do you do when a creator goes out of his way to have a multilingual product from the start like Space Dandy?

>>14741097

Not him but that is so rare outside of videogames that it's a case by case basis.

Dubs suck in any language. I watched Back to the Future 3 in Japanese and it was awful.

Even if we to ignore that dialogue written for one language sound stupid when translated to another, or to ignore that voice directors often lack in the basic linguistic skills required to understand the original scripts delivery, dub voice actors are constantly required to lip sync to the wrong language. They have to talk awkwardly fast or awkwardly slow to match mouth movement, head movement, or just not get their line out before another character speaks. These last two problems apply even to masked characters. That can never sound good. It should be really clear why dubs do not work. When the original cast record lines, Japanese or Yank, they see a rough cut version that can be altered to match their delivery. Foriegn dubs can not possibly have that luxury and it's no surprise they sound rubbish.

>>14741147
>I watched Back to the Future 3 in Japanese and it was awful.
Live-action dubs in general just don't work because there'll always be a disconnect between seeing an actor on-screen but not hearing their voice. The lip synch thing has been a non-issue for ages since any scriptwriter worth a shit can write for lip flaps. Sentences that are unnaturally too short or too long as a result of writing for lip flaps are a far bigger problem that talking too fast or slow.

>>14740939
you are half correct

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>>14741147
>Dubs suck in any language.

>he's never watched Star Trek w/Japanese dubbing

shiggy diggy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JShPVYFajpM

>>14740939
That's the reason I prefer subs. I feel less embarassed for the characters when I'm reading their bizarre dialogue instead of directly hearing it.

>>14741067
>I also have recently found myself enjoying a lot of Streamline's work like the Cobra and Golgo 13 movies despite their reputation.

I feel like said rep is also part of where this feud's earliest roots came from.
Cause let's face it, older dubs tended to take a far looser hand in terms of adapting their source material, giving us things like randomly worked in profanity, weird jokes in otherwise serious scenes, or some lines that just don't make a lick of Goddamn sense.

>>14741067
>Cyber City

The greatest dub of all time. "It's way past your bedtime motherfucker."

>>14741097
That was a rare occasion, considering he actually made Space Dandy with English in mind and not to mention that dub was rather good (Ian Sinclair IS So Space Dandy) that's when I watch a dub. But I'm also of the opinion that the Space Dandy dub is better than the sub aside from a couple voices.

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>>14741730
>Cyber City
>greatest dub of all time
A CHALLENGER APPEARS

100% serious. Even part 3. In fact ESPECIALLY part 3.

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>>14741730

"You wouldn't recognize a goddamn vampire if one jumped up and bit you on the end of your fucking dick."

>>14740939
try watching something without bad writing then you retard.

>>14741784
Oh really? Like what?

>>14741796
G-Reco.

>>14741796
i mean, would it even matter if i told you something that i think has good writing? You'd just sperg out over whatever i'd recommend.

>>14741815
So you're admitting that your idea of "well-written" isn't objective enough to convince me, huh?

>>14740935
Because back in the before times, dubs were often heavily altered, either to make the show kid-friendly or more "adult." Additionally, there often would be no way to watch the original without having to get into fansub tape trading. If there was a subbed version legally available, It usually cost more than the dubbed version, despite it being cheaper to release.

Naturally, sub fans didn't like this, and it turned into a really toxic sea of arguing between both sides because the internet ruins all that it touches.

>>14740976
Dubbing a show actually still increases its profit by a pretty large margin, though that doesn't apply to everything. You won't see Discotek dub Mazinger Z, for example.

In regards to streaming, most (if not all) anime on Netflix are dubbed, and then everything Funimation streams has a dub. Used to, their shows were all over Hulu, but ever since Hulu took most of their anime down, Funimation has now partnered with Crunchyroll. Funi's site is now dubs only and will start doing dubs of Crunchy shows, and Crunchy is going to host subbed version of Funi shows.

>>14741830
I think he's learning that arguing with arrogant dickheads such as yourself on the internet is a waste of time.

>>14741854
>and then everything Funimation streams has a dub.

Almost everything.
They didn't bother with one for Buddy Complex, for an example.

>>14741855
Well I hope he is, because engaging in a debate when you lack strong, irrefutable arguments is very stupid.

I find a lot of comments here to be cancer...

It does annoy me tremendously seeing people constantly spewing hate over dubs.

It's 2016, the average anime series that isn't dubbed by Sentai will have almost the same amount of quality as the Japanese version.

The whole dub v sub used to have valid points, but the dubbing quality (for most non-sentai anime) has gotten a lot higher in the late 2000's. And news flash, just cause something came out in Japanese first doesn't mean that makes it better. There are just as many bad voice overs in Japanese than there are English ones. Especially in the 90's and early 00's. Unless something had a big budget, they cheaped out on the voice acting.

I think one of the big reasons people also shit on dubs is due to the very bad localization they used to do up until the early 00's, them changing character names to American ones. That had to do more to the time period when anime wasn't as known of and accepted in the US, the companies wanting to try to make sure they succeeded over here, so went the extra step of localization. Now of days though, the only localization you have to deal with is if it's going to air on cartoon network for kids, them bastardizing things completely then

>>14741885
>It's 2016, the average anime series that isn't dubbed by Sentai will have almost the same amount of quality as the Japanese version.
....how true is this?

If it's the same cast as the JRPG dub team, that cannot be true.

>>14741885
>It does annoy me tremendously seeing people constantly spewing hate
Don't make me open my fedora folder again, dickhead. Watch your language.

>>14741890
Love seeing the joke "it's always the same actors" you do know in Japan it's very common for senior voice actors / more experience ones to be contacted first to voice a role? So right there alone you potentially have the same person for many series. Funimation has good voice actors, although they do use them a bit too much, they're still good VAs and match the character well enough. This is where you scream that I don't know what I'm talking about, and that's when I ask if you legit sat down and watched dubs in recent years (from non-sentai series), and I mean actually sit down and watch them, not just a few moments, looking for something to sound bad to justify your hate.

Aniplex may be the EA of the anime industry, but their dubs probably have the highest level of quality on average.

>>14741910
Japan simply got more voice actors, even the same voice actor can do the different voices. There's both a tradition and professional skill there. Heck, we have otaku who obsess over voice actors.

The dub cast has never become close, after all, they are less popular.

>>14741916
Why would you watch a native production dubbed in another language when you know the native language?

>>14741919
I don't.

Dubs, especially english dubs, are shit.

>>14741916
I've seen a pretty big majority of voice actors capable of doing multiple voices. For example Monica Rial whom I consider a great voice actress and has a wide range of voices she can do, to the point where if there was a series with all female cast she could probably do all the voices without you knowing. Problem is it almost always comes down to what voice the director wants you to do. Which is why someone like Troy Baker, who's also very skilled almost always uses the voice he uses for characters like Dewitt from Bioshock, Joel from last of us, etc.

>>14741932
go back to hugging your anime figurines and body pillows, edge lord

>>14741936
I think the best metric for evaluating the quality of English speaking acting talent is the number of classically trained actors that are on staff.

Even if they're typecast into a role, you'll love every second of them going full ham.

>>14741942
I'm doing it right now, problem?

Funny how saying dubs are shit is edgy now.

>>14741936
Never heard of her.

>>14741982
yeah cause you beat off to subs

>>14740935
I will always watch wing murrica dub because it's hilarious while I would never watch any UC story because I'm used to its voice actors.

Same thing with that stupid TTGL, Italian dubs are simply horrible so I stick with Japanese and subs

>>14741989
Considering I watch hentai and play eroge, I do beat off to subs haha.

>>14740969
Anime in Italy are always voiced by the same two teams, one is decent and the other is cringey.

>>14741764
gonna have to watch that then. Been putting it off for so long because of cybernetics guardian being such a letdown

Real English voice acting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnmJALXh_sI&feature=youtu.be

Anime English voice acting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TXrMxfNtFc&t=2m24s

Anime dubs are fucking terrible. Get over it.

>>14742132
Anime dub just feel fucking unnatural.

I don't care if you say you grow up watching dubbed anime, that shit doesn't sound or look natural.

>dub vs. sub
More like casuals vs. casuals who think they're hardcore.

>>14741885

>> Now of days though, the only localization you have to deal with is if it's going to air on cartoon network for kids, them bastardizing things completely then

Or certain video games. See Rockman/Mega Man, Gyakuten Saiban (Turnabout Round) vs. Ace Attorney, and Armed Blue/Azure Striker Gunvolt on name changes between Japanese and English versions.

>>14742148
the berserk dubs worked really well.

>>14741885
>using current year argument
Look I love modern dubs and wait for funimation broadcast dubs before watching funi shows, but fuck off

Dubs are rarely done well.

Domon from the G Gundam dub was pretty good most of the time, so it's not like you can't have good dubs.

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>>14740935
Will silent movies ever make a comeback? What if companies just didn't bother to hire voice actors, and redirected half of the saved money into animation and sound effects instead?

>>14746604
I actually like this idea. And it would solve the whole issue of "don't tell, show". And maybe force directors to be more creative.

>>14741881
>engaging in a debate when you lack strong, irrefutable arguments is very stupid

You should take your own advice.

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English VA's can't do hot blood.
At all.

The only times English dubs are good are when the VA's are allowed to go all out, which doesn't happen quite often, but is a common occurrence with comedy anime.

>>14741201
I can't tell if it's because of my bias, but I really like this dub.

>>14742132
Mel Blanc was a professional.

The anime dub industry doesn't have an equivalent.

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>>14746735
If you watch The Artist, it really is a very nice example of what can be done with silent movies in the modern age. It eschewed subtitles in favor of old-timey "dialogue intertitles" (pic related)--but, even with those, it was quite beautiful.

>>14746768
the american dub industry doesn't have an equivalent to Mel Blanc
he was one of a kind

>>14741890
Some JRPG dub teams have gotten to be decent over time. I've been playing through Devil Survivor 2 and that has an excellent dub cast. The fact that it's static portraits with no mouth flaps probably helps a lot.

One of the biggest issues in mecha dubs in particular is, as >>14740998 noted, yelling and odd pronunciation. Gurren-Lagann's a perfect example of a dub with awkward mispronunciation of the titular robot's name together with actors who just aren't as good at yelling as the Japanese cast. Even Gravion, which was otherwise a pretty solid dub, used a ton of voice filters on Touga whenever he was in the robot to help cover for his inability to yell attack names.

Godannar was pretty good about it, though. I think there's an embarrassment factor that has to be overcome.

>>14746875
You know that reminds me of something that has always bugged me. Why is it that most people seem to love it when Japs butcher the fuck out of English but hate it when English voice actors butcher the fuck out of Japanese. Don't get me wrong I love me some good old fashioned Engrish but its something I've noticed.

>>14747015
Double standards.

Also it's not really appreciated how much localization teams will go in and salvage flowery engrish into something still silly sounding but at least not profoundly stupid.

>>14747015
I think there was a meme in Japan about something Japanese mispronounced in the Rurouni Kenshin dub from Media Blasters, once, so that's something.

>>14746875
>Some JRPG dub teams have gotten to be decent over time. I've been playing through Devil Survivor 2 and that has an excellent dub cast. The fact that it's static portraits with no mouth flaps probably helps a lot.
Reminds me of when Dragon Quest VIII got an exclusive English dub, way before the 3DS version got voice acting.
>Gurren Lagann
It gets me how Bandai folks thought that pronouncing Simon's name as "Simone" was a good idea. Might have been better if ADV got to do it without the Sojitz debacle.
>Godannar was pretty good about it, though. I think there's an embarrassment factor that has to be overcome.
It being a parody helped, as well. It's been said on here that comedies can fare better in the dubbing department.

>>14747015
>Why is it that most people seem to love it when Japs butcher the fuck out of English but hate it when English voice actors butcher the fuck out of Japanese.

One is done with a well trained voice
The other is done by someone with a grating voice

>>14747015
dub japanese can be funny

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWru5o07j_I

>ARE YOU YAMATO TAKERU NO MIKOTO

not really butchered but it still sounds funny

>>14747100
That's because JIGEN RYU KENDO TECHNIQUE the dub was a terrible mess of hodgepodge dialog SHOW ME THE ANCIENT JAPANESE MAN'S SPIRIT translated from a terrible mess HUMANS ARE JUST HUMAN of hodgepodge dialog.

12TH AND 13TH CENTURY FOREIGNERS SURROUND ME. EVEN DINOSAURS ARE THERE. MY SWORD IS UNBELIEVABLY DULL.

>>14741764
ITs an ANGEL.

Brarararrararrqrrararratqfaftsvsfartqts

>>14747137
>voice of Eddy from Ed, Edd, and Eddy
Every single missile hit the target! Ahhhhhhhh!

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>>14746757
>"English VAs can't do hot blood"
>posts G Gundam

You can't be serious

I just watch a show in the language of whatever audience it's intended for. I've never seen a westaboo anime or game have a bad English dub. It's to the point that The Big O sounds bizarre in Japanese for me

>>14747264
The English guy gave it a good try but it still sounds a bit unnatural.

>>14747327
It's the opposite for me, Seki just sounds weird as Domon because he comes off as much older and more experienced than Gatha with his deeper voice. Domon's whole character is that he's young, naive, selfish and bad with people, so Gatha generally sounds more fitting

When it comes to subs vs dubs, it really depends upon the anime's subject matter.

If it's sci-fi, you can watch it in either language, since the themes are going to be easy to convey regardless.

If it's anime about samurai or something more uniquely Japanese, I'd go with subs.

>>14746853

Pretty much. When he died they needed to replace him with like 10 people.

Also Mel Blanc did comedy, wacky cartoon voices, and sound effects. Which he did like a God yes, but get him to say terrible anime dialogue in his regular speaking voice and he'd sound just as silly.

>>14747354

This too. For all people bitch about western dubs sounding too old to be teenagers it's mostly the same in Japanese. Midorikawa, Seki and Sugita's characters all sound like mature men even though they're usually playing teens. So do most female VAs that don't have an unnatural cutsey voices for that matter.

>>14747377
>but get him to say terrible anime dialogue in his regular speaking voice and he'd sound just as silly.
Nah. Mel Blanc was a professional voice actor, he would never sound as amateurish as the hacks you see in the NA anime industry no matter what lines or voice you had him do. There is no excuse for being a bad actor, which is what these dub hacks are.

>>14747384
Well it's more about character than it is about age

Remember that Chirico is supposed to be 17 even though everything about him suggests he's somewhere between 25-35. I don't really mind the VA sounding older in a case like that

>>14740935
>Dub vs. Sub
Check' em

>>14748333
>TRIPS
Well, you tried.

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>>14748333
>>>/a/

>>14740935
Dubs is for people who can't read subtitles. And I don't mean that as an insult.

It is weird for me but this seems to be the majority of the world. I specifically taught myself English to read subs in English only to find out Americans hate subs! The irony.

>>14749754
It's just mostly americans.