Would animation quality be better if cel animation was still

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>>14733897
No, it'd be about the same but with less filters and different kinds of digital effects designed to go over cel because computers don't make the frames get drawn any faster. They certainly speed up the inking and colouring and make things cheaper and easier for the studios, though.

What it would mean is that many shows wouldn't be able to execute the same visual direction as they would have using the advantages offered by digital animation, thus robbing us of several perfectly good shows due to their styles being cost-prohibitive on a TV budget.

>>14733929
>No, it'd be about the same but with less filters

That's already a plus when looking at Ufotable's garbage

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>>14733943
Ufotable's fetish for filters is an acceptable trade-off for getting to live in the timeline where The Tatami Galaxy gets made.

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>>14733897
Masami Goto animation hhhhhhhhhhhhhhnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg

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Is Dandy cel animated?

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>>14733897
Cel animation would never let you do something of this calibre.

>>14734054
You've got to use less shitty bait, anon. You can't just use that one part of that fight over and over in these threads.

>>14734054
You're right, I've seen better and more detailed animation from cels.

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>>14734056
>>14734062
>implying

>>14734062
Go ahead and post it friend

I think late 90s Sunrise was pretty much the peak of what you could do with cel animation on a TV budget. Bebop, Big O S1, and Turn A look about as good as a TV anime will ever look.

On a side question about digital animation, how the fuck does GitS: SAC look so good when every other show from the early digital era looks like ass? It could air today and hold its own against modern shows, and I definitely couldn't say the same about even other big budget shows like Gundam SEED.

>>14734062
We're waiting.

>>14734166

Because they blew all of their dated animation on the atrocious CGI opening credit sequence for some reason.

The actual show looks great, but that OP leaves something to be desired.

>>14734166
Sunrise got digital animation totally right with King Gainer though.

>>14734054
This isn't really good animation???

It's good directing, apart from all the super boring flashy effects of the 2010s.

>how do we make this scene cool
>uh move the camera really for back and really far in
>got it
>make sure to draw them on top of a CGI background so the camera can go RALLY FAST

It's not interesting in OPM, Dragon Ball Super, or the other fuckzillion anime this decade.

Just to be clear, I think there's advantages to both cel and digital. I have some preferences for real paint colors and good still frames and art quality, even if the animation is actually limited. I enjoy the "moving manga" look more so than the WOOOOOSH SO SMOOTH(?) in new anime.

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>>14734110
>>14734169
That was easy. Hey, it's even /m/ related.

Shinya Ohira's style is as hand-drawn and "human" as it gets and IIRC the guy said he gets to do far more scenes with digital animation than he ever did with cel animation
>>14734019
No. Neither is Redline.

You should be able to tell by just glancing at something.
>>14734166
Lol what? 2002 saw plenty of TV anime with decent-to-great colors. Princess Tutu, King Gainer, Abenobashi, Yucie etc

Digital coloring I'd say is like a filter. Many were never very good at coloring to begin with but traditional coloring saved their asses on account of those colors actually existing in the real world. It's much easier to fuck up when picking from a color wheel so only those that are truly great colorists will know how to pick great colors. It's why FLCL looked good as early as 2000.
>>14734054
OPM has lots of good animation but there's nothing about that scene's qualities, or really any of the best scenes, that makes it digital animation-specific. It would take more time and money but it would still be possible.

>>14733897
Hi Otaking.

>>14734201
>I enjoy the "moving manga" look more so than the WOOOOOSH SO SMOOTH(?) in new anime.
Smoothing animation isn't a "new anime" thing lmao.
>???
>>Tumblr
>CGI background
Looks hand drawn to me.

That guy's either dumb or trolling but your retort isn't much better.

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>>14734054
>>14734103
>terrible cartoon physics choreography
>abuse of digital effects and colors
>absolutely zero weight to the impacts

Why are newer animators so fucking bad?

>>14734225
The Bakemono gif is just poorly made

I agree the colors are not very good in either gif though and don't like the blom and shit in the OPM clip but the animation is pretty well done and hardly "absolutely lacking in any weight".

>cartoons having cartoon physics is bad
The worst part of this post

Do you think Looney Tunes is badly animated

>>14734169
>>14734110
Layzner fight scene between the three masked dudes

>>14734212
How is this better detailed? Look how flat the models are. Random scratches does not make for better detail.

>>14734212
This too and it doesn't rely on stupidly fast animation to hide flaws

>>14734221
>Smoothing animation isn't a "new anime" thing lmao.
It's not new but that's all they ever seem to do in new anime. It's boring to look at. I don't find the OPs webm very exciting either. It's not godlike just because it was harder then.

Some moments that ARE really well drawn like >>14734212 or, to have something similar, some scenes in Macross DYRL that are wooshy shots, are really cool because they highlight what's going on in the story. Yes we all love EZ-8 vs Gouf Custom and it's neat to look at, but in context is what makes it a really awesome scene.


>Looks hand drawn to me.
It's not, it's just shaded. They had the camera fly over it and drew Saitama man.

We could argue about what's good or bad animation from a technical quality. Because OPs webm and that OPM webm would probably pass some Disney quality test.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that better animation doesn't make a better anime. We can't just point to digital being the reason new anime sucks and cel being why we like some anime from those times.

I really like the real paint colors and filmed look of older anime but that's an aesthetic thing I enjoy. I also really enjoyed G-Reco's saturated pallete and TTGLs crazy rainbow spiral power effects.

There's a ton of bad looking anime made both ways, so I pretty much agree with >>14733929
I just PREFER the older look.

Better question:

Particle effects in anime, underexplored territory or cancer in the making?

>>14734214
I'm not talking about SAC's colors, but rather the animation quality as a whole. It is a bit of hyperbole to say every other show looked like ass (like another anon pointed out Gainer looks pretty damn good too, and Tutu and FMA hold up nicely as well) but in general the early 00's weren't exactly the greatest time for good animation on TV.

>>14734267
Detail found in still frames should not be the deciding factor of the ANIMATION quality of a scene. I dunno if the person who said "detailed" meant detail of motion but I kinda hope they did.

Neither of those looks "flat" but I'd say the robots in the Gundam clip are particularly very solidly drawn. Shitting on something for only having one later of shading is silly because freaking Akira only had one layer of shading and it's actually a great showcase of skill to be able to give something believable three-dimensional volume with only one shading layer. I think that clips does it wonderfully.

The OPM clip is good as a "bam whoosh" DBZ type fight, a very different thing. The feeling of soaring through the air is well executed.

>>14734287
IG probably paid assloads for it.

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>>14734225
>Why are newer animators so fucking bad?

They're better than the older ones.

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>>14734303
That's a well-choreographed and directed fight but the actual animation is nothing to write home about. Notice how much shaky cam it uses to give you the feeling of impact. Actual "impact" is rarely ever seen in modern animation.

>>14734234
Over the top may be intentional, but there has to be some depth to the animation that's felt. All I see here are flash and explosions, all obscuring the poor quality of everything else in those webms/gifs.

>>14734212
Why don't you post from a fucking tv series you dishonest cunt and not from a ova

The point of computerized animation is to make it easier, not better. The real problem is nobody is passionate about animating anything today I mean look at all the pointless garbage they make. That's why shows like Guren Lagann and G-Reco were so baller because there was so much put into them the animators could feel inspired enough to do a good job.

>>14734303
>newer
>older
>posting Yutaka Nakamura's work
>same guy who's been in the industry since the early 90s and /m/ constantly fellates his work for Sunrise

Further proof not a single one of you fuckers on this board knows anything about animation.

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I think there's validity to the claim that unique things are lost in the transition to digital but generally the "ahh classic cel animation" stuff people bring up doesn't really benefit from being cel animation, often it's stuff that doesn't really draw attention to being a drawing and aims to be immersive like say Honneamise.

Ashita no Joe is actually a great example of something having a dirty look that's hard or even impossible to achieve with digital animation but no one brings it up because when judged "objectively" it's not good art and animation. But as far as complementing story by being perfectly tonally fitting it's perfect.

>muh cell animation

these threads weren't any less shitty in 2008, why are we having them in 2016

>>14734340
Aside from doing a bunch of great stuff in Bebop he did a bunch of stuff for this very mecha 90s show https://sakuga.yshi.org/post?tags=the_vision_of_escaflowne+yutaka_nakamura

>>14734336
I know you're posting two controversial shows to stir shit but both GL and G-Reco have pretty great art direction

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>>14734331
>my animation is just shit because of muh deadlines

Way to backpedal you fucking cock.

>>14733897
I remember reading an article saying that there was going to be an anime shortage because animation cels were costing so much money to produce with petroleum prices high.

That being said, no, I think the days of drawing on a transparent sheet and overlaying it over a painted background are far behind us. Cel animation is as far removed from modern animation as using a typewriter is from document writing. Sure, you can do it, but it's archaic, time consuming, and it makes you look like a hipster for doing it.

>>14734321
>whining about some of the best work of Yutaka Nakamura a classic animator who's been in the industry for ages and is one of the best action animators as "modern animation with no impact"
Lmfao

I agree the shakey cam and blur in the Sword of the Stranger clip is not needed. I agree the bloom in the OPM clip is not needed. The problem is that you're mistaking the use of those redundant elements for poor animation; you think that if they're used then the animation HAS to be bad. I've seen people say the same thing about the Takeshi Koike Iron Man pilot in Youtube comments sections which is some insane shit.

Look at the action scenes in Rebuild 2.0 for example. It has a lot of bullshit pointless after effects but that does not mean the actual animation under it all is bad. It actually has a great animation staff that did a great job.

>>14734372
Not that guy but I guess a more interesting question would be, do you think there is such thing as over-the-top fast "soaring through the air doing cool anime shit" DBZ-esque fighting that you find well animated? Because you're kinda countering apples with oranges here, the stuff you're posting is going for slower more realistic motion.

>>14734372
I'm not even the same anon but I called you out on bitching about the webm he posted by using something that had way more budget and the animators could work without having to worry about weekly deadlines.

Good work on proving my point that you do not actually have a argument and can only resort to this.

Keep on shitposting, it will not bring you idealized version of the past that never actually existed

>>14734408
That kinda reminds me of the Korean-animated stuff in Legend of Korra in that the individual drawings are strikingly solid but the animation is pretty choppy.

>>14734422
It's a dumb request to begin with because detail was not the purpose of that OPM sequence at all.

>>14734420
The "super whooshing fast flash" animation schtick is super common these days, especially with all those hack webgen animators like Bahi JD, but slower and smoother animation with emphasis on things like character and mechanical animation are practically nonexistent nowadays, being replaced with either still shots or terrible CGI.

>>14734438
And I'm not asking about detail, I'm asking about animation, you're the one backpedaling again

Don't Japanese animators work in pretty bad conditions and really have low pay?

>>14734054
70% of that sequence is two balls flying around turning into lines across a blurry background. Then the only time you actually see the characters as more than a ball of light is still shots, then the motion turns back into light balls and lines.

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>>14734345
I miss the rough ass fuck looking lines from 60's and 70's anime.

>>14734439
You didn't answer my question and instead decided to whine about the weeaboo kid who got a job in anime. Do you think there's such thing as that kind of animation done well or are you just going to compare apples with oranges?

I never asked if it's common or not, I just asked if there's any of that type of animation you find good. I think it can be done badly and it can also be done well and as far as I'm concerned that webm does it well.

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Dirty Pair had some sick animation. I don't have any Webms though.

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>mfw there are faggots out there who will defend this travesty

https://sakuga.yshi.org/data/e7c11d1c3ad02872751e43a7dd6f24b5.webm

The Space Adventure Cobra TV series was really well animates for a TV anime. Prove me wrong.

>>14734499
Thats dany or whatever isn't it? Whats wrong with it?

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>>14734331
Okay.

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>>14734461
The Sabu & Ichi anime's art direction is very different from the manga since the manga is all about being round and natural and organic looking while the anime is angular as fuck, but it's still fucking amazing how well it aged in terms of art.

Some shots look like they came out of a 90s anime beyond being black and white.
>>14734456
I know this is awful to say but after reading an interview with Takafumi Hori on this subject actually decided that the horrible treatment of animators actually has a positive effect on the final product. Given it's such a horribly paying job, it basically means only those who truly love animation will get into animation

We'd still have an over abundance of stock footage

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>>14734367
>controversial CARTOONS

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>>14734511
Doesn't it kind of depend on the chapter? Either way the show has an effective use of still shots and pieces of live action (like the pond in the first image I posted)

>>14734510
I like that OPM clip but I actually agree this is more visually appealing and impacting. Like really it's fucking wonderful.
>>14734507
It's animated by Bahi JD who is a Twitter weeaboo that works in Japan and got noticed when he was still a teen by high caliber animators like Koji Morimoto. People shit on him a lot for a combination of reasons like

-jealousy

-him making some pandering anti-moe comments and other questionable statements that should have no impact on what he actually animates if you're an adult capable of separating creator from creation

-actual valid criticisms of his animation, but I really hugely doubt they would be as much of an issue without the first 2
>>14734506
I can't? It looks great. It's also not very representative of 80s TV anime though.

>>14734378
Typewriters are inherently better than computer word processors.

Typewriters are produced under much more sustainable and humane conditions than computers.

Typewriters can be shot, tossed from a building, flooded by a hurricane, and still work. And they'll last for hundreds of years.

A typewriter lets you actually focus on what you're doing. You won't be tempted to shitpost on 4chan when you're working on a typewriter.

You can't hack a typewriter.

A lot of typewriters don't need electricity to function.

And there's nothing like the sound of a typewriter on a computer, that doesn't sound fake as shit.

So no, Cels aren't over. Cels are simply being ignored by an ignorant populace.

>>14734510
>He goes and posts the director cut instead of the tv version
Good fucking job, you could have posted one from the first few episodes that actually had consistent animation instead of parts that were reanimated and corrected

>>14734524
I haven't read nearly enough to know. Actually I really gotta pick it up again.

>>14734533
You are a contrarian through and through aren't you?

>>14734538
>macrossplusopeningfighe
I don't remember this scene

>>14734439
>slower and smoother animation with emphasis on things like character and mechanical animation are practically nonexistent nowadays, being replaced with either still shots or terrible CGI.
This is not and has never been a thing in action sequences. It's not like moving from cels, where you're limited by having to physically move delicate film, wouldn't have had the same animation if directors could do it back then.

>>14734287
>Early 00s
Remember Glass Fleet and Dai-Guard? Shitty early digital animation.

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>>14734054
don't get me wrong this looks good but there's no substance, it's just flashy colors and flash frames for the most part.

Older animation on cels was a bit more restricting and lead to animators actually needing to think about how they were presenting a scene, composition, and how to utilize their resources for full effect. An example of this is how 0079 used pink for beams because it was the most abundant color iirc, nowadays a studio has so much to choose from that
Having digital become the main medium has erased this because now animators have an infinite resource pool to chose from when it comes to stuff like coloring and filters.

Older series had to find clever ways to get certain effects that helped enhance and give each their own personality, now everyone is using the same techniques and 95% of everything looks bland because of it.

funny enough I'm one of the few who believe CG could somehow fix this and bring innovation back to animation

>>14734466
>>14734439
Oh also if you want acting animation you can just search "character acting" on sakugabooru and get mostly modern anime clips because the site is run by seasonal anime watching fags

>>14734547
I'm only a contrarian when idiots dominate the market and tastes.

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>>14734534
You're pretty hard to please huh? Well here, it's exactly what you asked for.

>watching modern anime
>watching anime without mech
Hello millennials with Aspergers

Why can't you /a/ tourists stay in your Macross Delta and Fafner containment generals?

>>14734532
>It's animated by Bahi JD who is a Twitter weeaboo that works in Japan and got noticed when he was still a teen by high caliber animators like Koji Morimoto. People shit on him a lot for a combination of reasons like
>-jealousy
>-him making some pandering anti-moe comments and other questionable statements that should have no impact on what he actually animates if you're an adult capable of separating creator from creation
>-actual valid criticisms of his animation, but I really hugely doubt they would be as much of an issue without the first 2

Wrong. People don't like Bahi because he specializes in the type of webgen animation that is all flashy explosions and warping without any actual attention to detail or movement. He thinks like Michael Bay. He also can't do character animation worth a damn. Just look at this shit.

https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/22744

>>14734558
>An example of this is how 0079 used pink for beams because it was the most abundant color iirc, nowadays a studio has so much to choose from that
Wait is that why? I noticed pink explosions is something Anno picked up, even used it in the explosion he animated in FLCL. I've actually been watching Gundam 0079 and wondered why it constantly used pink explosions.
>>14734558
Dai Guard looks pretty bad but something tells me it would just be a pretty different type of badness if it came out today. Probably covered with bloom and after effects.

>>14734577
This is the perfect example, it has fast paced action but the main figures don't dissolve into blobs.
It has a lot of weight and just looking at it you feel a bit of the impact, especially with the "camera shake" effect used here.

If this was done today it would've been slowed down, 3 filters showing all the ash,dust and sparks being kicked up by the battle, a few highlights would be added Unit-01 and the scene where the camera pans up around it at the end would've been considerably sped up.

>>14734581
>Fafner
>/a/
if you're gonna shitpost get familiar with your material.

>>14734585
People focus on Bahi individually more than they do on "web gen" in general which screams butthurt & jealousy to me

I agree the middle shot with the bad perspective on the guy's arms & sword sucks but it seems like a deadline issue to me. The guy's drawn & animated enough to know he understands perspective.

>>14734609
>to know
*to show
>>14734600
Except not really. "Blobs" are done for DBZ-esque motion where the characters are moving too fast for the human eye to see. It's fine if you think that stuff is oversaturated but the idea that it's inherently bad and there's no bad or good way to do it and it's all awful is dumb.

I know people went "durrhurr blobs" over this scene for example https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/21724/animated-character_acting-effects-fighting-hair-hi when it's actually really well executed.

>>14734600
>If this was done today it would've been slowed down, 3 filters showing all the ash,dust and sparks being kicked up by the battle, a few highlights would be added Unit-01 and the scene where the camera pans up around it at the end would've been considerably sped up.
You don't need to lie, we have the Rebuild to compare to

>>14734586
>Wait is that why?
I'm pretty sure but my memory is fuzzy, back when physical tools were used for creating anime stuff like colors had to be taken into account for the budget,
so when coming up with art direction, character designs, etc. these things had to be taken into consideration.
I'm also pretty sure this was the reason Gunbuster's final episode was in black and white.

>>14734547
It's in the first OVA. It's not in the movie.

>>14734628
I think I might be forgeting then because I only watched the ova

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>people speaking positively of Evangelion in any way
In case it wasn't already obvious this was an /a/ thread

Do you know what fucking board your on?

>>14734624
I don't think the style is automatically bad, but it's so easy to do that it become a crutch that many animators rely on, the same goes for that blocky style of background destruciton like in>>14734054

Its become another cop out for animators who don't want to do actual work so they draw a bunch of squares and call it a day.
I won't say it can't be done well either, all techniques can, but when they become common trends so that animators can take shortcuts it gets annoying.

>>14734455
>backpedaling
Shut the fuck up faggot

here's your (you)

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https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/18737/animated-fighting-gurren_lagann_parallel_works-run I remember when this short came out and everyone in the /a/ thread liked it while everyone in the /m/ thread was saying it's some of the worst animation ever in anything TTGL related and some unironically compared it to episode 4

>>14734225
source?

I think less anime in general would get made due to budget restraints on animation.

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>>14734638
>Ideon
>intelligent

Alright, this thread has officially gone too far.

>>14734632
It's technically not the opening sequence. I think it opens with Isamu, Guld, and Myung. Where Isamu is flying in that homemade aircraft they built that is supposed to look like the Pterodactyl that Isamu showed them. Then I think it transitions to that scene. I could be wrong though.

>>14734626
>>14734586
The story is that when 0079 was being animated, it turned out that the studio had a stock of pink ink left over from a mispurchase and so they used it for all the beam shots.

>>14734642
I think it's unfitting to call it a cop-out in shows based on ONE works because if you read them it's hard to not imagine that type of whooshy DBZ motion when looking at a lot of its action scenes.

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>>14733897
>Would animation quality be better if cel animation was still in use today?
No. But the quality of colors would improve dramatically if they used paint instead of the paint bucket tool.

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>>14734672
>>14734642
I mean, you don't look at stuff like this and think "this should be adapted with subtle weighty fluid animation"

>>14734533
>Typewriters can be shot, tossed from a building, flooded by a hurricane, and still work

Bullshit, I threw my typewriter out a window and it broke on the pavement.

I think there were just better animation direction back then.

Look at basically anything Dezaki directed. Objectively, the majority of it was terrible in terms of animation. He did that fade to a still frame thing to save money, but that didn't matter, because he did it so much that it became iconic. He knew how to make it work.

>>14734567
>That utter lack of momentum
>"Just zoom in and out and spin around these models that otherwise may as well be static.

Fucking Thunderbirds had a better sense of how to portray a plane moving.

>>14734547
I think the type writer thing was a joke anon

>>14734745
All the stuff people said about the OPM webm actually applies to that webm without at all feeling too harsh

it's all so even

>>14734225
What is this? I need to see it

I don't even like the designs, but its so rare to see any choreography more complex than two mecha punching each other in the face

>>14734786
google reverse image search str8up aint got time for hoot ass trout shit son https://sakuga.yshi.org/wiki/show?title=quo_vadis_2

(it's a vidyagame)

I don't know if this is a controversial opinion but TTGL doesn't have good action sequences.

It all feels weightless.

>>14734811
It's /m/ so contrarian animation opinions that are wrong are common ground

Gurren is basically a modernization of Yoshinori Kanada's work on 70s mecha like Zambot 3 and Daitarn 3, it's not really about being blatantly weighty but it does require knowledge of real-world physics to work well. Which is why (obvious example) Imaishi does it better than Jun Arai

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>>14734827
Also, the robots are not actually meant to move mechanically

The staff literally said in an interview it was not the purpose and they were meant to be animated the same as human characters

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>>14734837
There's a ton of snappy motion with a good sense of tension and release.

>>14734827
>>14734837
I watch Zambot 3 but Zambot 3 still doesn't have the zany ass animation TTGL has.

Literally watch a Zambot 3 battle and compare it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSvyS-pORrc

File: 62785026105bb1784f00cd45211198a9.webm (2MB, 854x480px) Image search: [Google]

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>>14734847
I love the way this is timed

>>14734272
Digital is great for cost-saving and labor saving measures. But it looks fucking cheap because the very things that make digital great also are why it can be terrible.

The color palettes tend to be really bad. That alone is a serious problem with most modern and early digital series. Either there isn't enough depth and range in the colors, or they're just too fucking bright. Likewise the cleanliness of digital (and the ability to easily clean up art) tends to make a lot of things feel sterile.Cels were also more demanding on the animators. This was a huge shitty labor sink, but it also meant they had to think things through a bit more.

I'm not against digital, I just wish there was more thought put into things. Same gripes go to this modern fetish for CGI in mecha and shonen series. they went with it to look modern, because it was cheaper and more flexible, but they aren't using the tools to the best degree. There's a lack of thought put into movement written off as "action-packed and stylistic". So we get mobile suits and planes zipping around saying "Fuck physics".

There's a lot about modern anime I don't quite understand. Between art trends, show trends, story trends, and music trends, I feel left behind.

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>>14734855
I said the episodes that Yoshinori Kanada worked on.

>>14734847
Yeah, a mech swinging around and zoom on its face.

So good, so tense.

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>>14734862
https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/19082/animated-beams-effects-explosions-invincible_super Look at 0:12

>>14734862
And? Kanada did not animate the whole of Zambot 3.

And Zambot 3 battles are good even without him.

I never understood the "weight" argument when it applies to mechs that by the nature of the show are less of machines than they are an extension of the pilot.

>>14734863
I'm talking about the quality of the movement wiseass

Compare it to the choppy slashing motion here, if anything it looks like the motion slows down upon the attack's release https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnaU0Q60MWE#t=4m4s

>>14734567
>>14734750

Why does Macross Plus look so much better in terms of movement and physics?

>>14734865
>>14734862
Looks like shit. I can finally cross this off my to watch list

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>>14734877
I guess you can say "human beings have weight" but I highly doubt that's what people mean when they say that

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>>14734890
https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/11791/animated-smears-tadashi_hiramatsu-tengen_toppa_gur really good sequence but too big to post

>>14734877
>I never understood the "weight" argument when it applies to mechs

They're giant (presumably heavy) robots, why shouldn't they have weight?

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>>14734899

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>>14734903
Because the show is not going for realism and specifically going for human-like motion despite that it wouldn't work that way irl.

Gurren Lagann is even given human expressions even though it doesn't make logical sense because it's not a character simply because it's fun. Once again Kanada did the same in Tomino's Daitarn.

So lets turn this discussion around. Are OVAs and OVA-style movies totally dead? How do we get back to the days of glorious Nippon OVA animation folded 1000 times, where producers would just hand a pint of black ink and a stack of bills to a couple of Obaris and say 'come back when you're done'?

>>14734919
https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/18636/animated-debris-effects-hitomi_hasegawa-mecha-smok This is well done exaggerated stuff, better than say Amemiya's regular work for this show

>>14734930
Don't think they're dead but I highly doubt the 80s will ever be repeated.

A lot of people are happy because "urgh style over substance schlock" but they're wrong https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/23472/animated-background_animation-baoh-beams-debris-ef

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>>14734881
Because you have a massive hardon for 90s animation and hate CGI.

>>14734930
>So lets turn this discussion around.
It is too late for that. You can't overcome the autism of busterbeam spamming his crossboarding shit no one cares about. He legitimately thinks this shitty meme-tier animation is good.

>>14734903

Besides what >>14734919 said and a show isn't necesarily going for realism, I feel like the "weight" argument is less an animation issue and more of a coreography thing, in fact it's the same argument found with B kung fu movies. Weight is just a word being used in place of what people actually mean: they want punches to look like they genuinely hurt. Hajime no Ippo has been digital animation for a long time, but you can't deny that there's "weight" because it looks like they're actually smashing each others' faces in instead of tapping.

>>14734940
I don't think the 2D one has great movement but at least it doesn't look artificially sped up.
>>14734941
>it's too late, you've incurred my asshurt wrath and I will once again try to shitpost a thread and derail it into into gay petty internet drama

>ovas vs tv series
>moving the goalposts
>"THAT DOESN'T COUNT AS GOOD ANIMATION"
Yep, it's an 80swank thread.

>>14734948
forgot link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g75Mof5AAd8

>>14734216
I miss the days when he would post random mecha gifs here

>>14734958
You can show a face getting messed up during individual drawings and still have the overall motion be poorly timed, choppy and unnatural though.

Can't say that applies to your clip though, the blows are executed well. 4:32 is also genuinely well done super-fluid motion.

>>14734965

Well, HnI is done by Madhouse and has a decent budget, so there is that. But it doesn't change that it's all digital animation, the important thing is the animators know what they're doing.

Christ, nostalgiafaggots really are the lowest rung of shitposter.
I would rather share a thread with /u/ and /pol/ at the same time.

>>14734973
The reason I specifically said "genuinely well done super-fluid motion" is because super-fluid motion can look awkward and unnatural as hell, so yeah it's a matter of animators knowing what they're doing.

My go-to example is the horrible traced-over-3d-models dancing scene from Symphogear episode 1 which was hyper fluid but hilariously bad.

>>14734977

No one INTENTIONALLY goes to /u/. You just misclick and end up there.

Right?

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>>14734977
I'd rather hang out with a dozen 'muh 80s shading and detail' fags in a row than spend a minute with an a/u/togynephile

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>>14734985
I go there to laugh at men who watched too much anime it broke their brains and made them think they're trannies

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>>14734499
That's nothing.

This here is the epitome of everything wrong with webgen animators.

>there will still be people who will defend this

>>14734708
Cheap plastic piece of shit then.

>>14734994
It's messy and rushed as fuck and a bunch of the drawings are legtitimately shitty but I'd still rather have that than, say, Hellsing Ultimate.

>>14734811
That's like saying
>Pacific Rim has terrible love scenes
>They don't have a broody love interest sinking his teeth into the neck of his young lover

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>>14734994
This as well. The entire fucking fight. Jesus.

>>14734999

No it was metal, but it was also the third story

>>14735009
The number of people who came out of Pacific Rim going "the romance sucked" because they couldn't understand that it didn't have romance was a dumb thing.

Cell animation wouldn't affect the quality of per say since at the end of the day it's stills made with paper and pencil (the japs haven't tried using tablets yet) and plus while it looks like it was made on cells this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN_CP4SuoTU was made using digital methods. (you really wanna compare them, only do it with pencil animation)

I think a better question for the thread isn't with animation but why where things like shading, color palette and general art design look so much better when painted cells than using digital coloring.

>>14735010
Shippuden 167 is way better than that Birdy webm overall.

You could've at least posted one of the actually bad parts like the punch where his face obviously stretches for too long.

>>14735012
Is this supposed to look good?
Awful designs and the movement is something you can find in literally any, say, Dogakobo show.

File: YozakuraQuartet_battlescene.webm (3MB, 1067x600px) Image search: [Google]

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Not all webgen is bad.

Even after all these yours no dogfight in Macross has topped this scene from DYRL. From 1984.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1MlXmNSL7s

>>14735022
This is very, very impressive. Especially for a one man job. But something about the way those soldiers run looks very off and I can't put my finger on it.

>>14735026
>Awful designs
what

what could you possibly find offensive about Dirty Pair's designs
>>14735029
a lot of people seriously think the first yozakura anime looked better lol

>>14734881
They slowed the framerate down in those sequences so that everything was more easily watched, as opposed to modern anime that aims for higher framerate so everything might be quick and actiony but isn't intelligible when you watch it.

>>14734899
I rewatch this shit yesterday and what's the good part?

It is just one fucking movement, then BIG EXPLOSION, and a slow dark cut away of the mechs.

And this follows by a generic ass special attack.

It really hampers down that Imaishi doesn't know good action at all.

File: Vision of Escaflowne - OP (BD 720p) (G_P) (NakamaSub).webm (917KB, 960x720px) Image search: [Google]

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Webm related is what I consider to be a good sense of "weight".

>>14734930
Look at modern ONAs, like Time of Eve or Little Witch Academia. Literally the same thing, just not the same edgy bullshit.

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>>14735025
The entire fucking fight was awful. It's impossible to choose which of its scenes is better than another when all of it was such shit.

>>14735039
>>what could you possibly find offensive about Dirty Pair's designs
The retarded clothes, terrible hair and the eyes.

>>14734878
What quality of movement? The dudes in TTGL don't move anything like humans do, they feel like fucking jelly.

Funny you post that Black Getter scene, that is better than ALL action scenes in TTGL. Better sense of scale, better direction, better animation, better effects, even better music.

>>14735034
I was mainly referring to the mechanical and the dog fights parts, Otaking's character animation has always been a bit off...

>>14735031
This is good but I'd say the What Planet Is This sequence beats it as far as dogfights go.
>>14735034
Otaking admitted he never even learned the fundamentals of character animation.

>>14734930
Thunderbolt is very well animated.

Shit moves fast but smooth and isn't zany.

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>>14734994
>mfw Hack Snyder took this scene as inspiration for Man of Steel

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>>14735039
>a lot of people seriously think the first yozakura anime looked better lol
I've literally never encountered one of these.
Its almost unanimously agreed the second YZQ series plus OVA's are the highlight of the franchise doujins never

>>14735046
Not that anon, but really? I don't see how it's any more "retarded" it is than most other animuu designs (especially those of the 80's). Try telling us an example of better character design then.

>>14735041
Nigger this thread is about animation, not direction. Are you seriously gonna say that scene (which is done by Yoshinari, not Imaishi) is badly >animated<?
>>14735047
>Funny you post that Black Getter scene, that is better than ALL action scenes in TTGL.
Don't go full retard dude.

>>14735058
>Don't go full retard dude.

Aren't you one to talk, Busterbeam.

>>14735058
Animation means nothing if the direction is bad.

We might as well K-On girls talking here because that's better animation.

>Don't go full retard dude.
It is true, TTGL actions are fucking boring. Just drill, punching and fucking explosions.

>>14735061
>"IT TAKES ONE TO KNOW ONE"
epic ownage brah

you could quite reasonably argue that the Stoner Sunshine scene beats anything in GL but that mediocre ass Black Getter scene is a really fucking retarded thing to defend to the death

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>>14735058
>Gainaxfag defending TTGL
>calling someone else a retard

Someone here should post Thunderbolt, because that should be a primal example of how good modern OVA can look.

Smooth, detailed and very well directed.

>>14735062
Akchually, the K-ON movie had excellent character animation and direction.
Fault Kyoani for doing nothing but SoL (even if that hasn't been true for the last 5 years), but they've got some good talent in terms of animation.

>>14735022

Also, how many here would agree if the only thing he changed was the level of shading with a completely flat color palette with almost zero shading, the animation quality would look worse overall with out even touching a single frame

>>14735067
Except anyone who watch Getter Armageddon will remember that scene.

It is iconic and memorable, people don't even remember what the fuck GL did aside from lol giga drill breaker.

>>14735074
Then we should post K-On here and proving everyone wrong then.

Because K-On has better animation and detail than fucking TTGL does.

>>14735062
>Animation means nothing if the direction is bad.
This thread is not about direction but keep moving the goalposts
We might as well K-On girls talking here because that's better animation.
Yeah man K-On has terrible animation, where's the ebin gore??

>>14735070
What scene do you want?

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>busterbeam
Don't you have some /v/ e-celebs you can be tweeting to you cringeworthy autist?

>>14735081
K-On has better animation than TTGL.

Ergo, we should be posting K-On sasuga, at least that eye-cancer is detailed and smoothy and not zany-explosion-zap shit like TTGL.

>>14735076
>Except anyone who watch Getter Armageddon will remember that scene.
Not for the fucking animation
>people don't even remember what the fuck GL did aside from lol giga drill breaker
Here you go making up reality headcanons again.
>>14735080
...yeah, you could far more reasonably argue that compared to the pure mediocrity you're idealizing.

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>>14735070

>>14735086
Anything, there's no bad action scene in Thunderbolt.

>>14735050
Someone should buy him the Animator's Survival Kit (along with a translated copy for every god damn animator in japan)

>>14735093
>Not for the fucking animation
Also the animation, you retard.
>Here you go making up reality headcanons again.
That's true for me at least.

>...yeah, you could far more reasonably argue that compared to the pure mediocrity you're idealizing.
Any normal human who watch the Black Getter entry vs any K-On scene are going to say they prefer the Black Getter entry.

You animator autist are blind.

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>>14735042
Here's another good one.

>>14734940
>aspect ratio
why

>>14735096
Sunrise really IS the master when it comes to modern animation.

They don't fall into the same Gainax/Trigger zany ass claptrap.

>>14735101
>Argumentum ad populum
Fifty Shades of Grey is one of the most popular books of all time

>>14735111
Because it's sex and BDSM-specifically.
People are horny.

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>>14735080
Its not ebin action sequences, but they can do some really good subtle animation sequences.
Ignore his gay voice, but he's got some good points.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OD18kj77kvM

>>14735110
Ugly ass modern anime colors and after effects

Kid at the beginning has a wonky ass poorly drawn face

>>14735104
I love this whole scene so much but FUCK the shaky cam.

>>14735119
That face is still on fucking on model, not imaishi animashun face.

And those colors and effects aren't ugly, get your eyes checked.

>>14735117
FUCKING FILTERS REEEEE

>>14735117
K-on isn't really comparable to mecha because it's trying to accomplish something else entirely. Mecha animation typically attempts to convey action scenes, wheras K-on is conveying human characters. Part of doing that is animating facial expressions and posture. That's not to say that mecha don't have a character of their own or something, but it's two seperate things and honestly I don't know why they're being compared to each other.

>>14735117
Subtle animation sequence, bleh.

KyoAni should focus on making visual novels/moege instead.

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>>14735125
It's full of terrible fucking drawings dude. Imaishi can at least wrap features around a face.

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>>14735096
Here's a scene I really love.
I must have posted this webm like 10 times.

>>14735128
Filters are only bad when they are overused to the point of visual clutter and confusion.

>>14735132
>posture
Posing is an important part of mecha animation though

>>14735132
Because K-On has better animation than TTGL, and arguably 80s action OVA as well.

If we talk ONLY about animation quality, then K-On should be discussed.

>>14735137
How is that a fucking terrible drawing compared to Imaishi's fucking jelly human?

File: phantom-world-fight.webm (2MB, 854x480px) Image search: [Google]

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>>14735117
Kyoani can do some great action when they put their effort to it.

>>14735138
Here's another scene that is smooth, fast and more detailed than anything TTGL.

>>14735140
Oh, I agree actually. Still though.

>>14735144
>0:23
>1.19 MB
Fucking Christ, why even repost this?

>>14735117
I tried to watch RCAnime's "WHAT IS SAKUGA" video and it was cringeworthy shit and he didn't even bother to google basic things while pretending to be a "historian", not watching another one of his videos about the extremely basic point that Kyoani do good animation.
>>14735143
Post a drawing actually made by Imaishi that's worse.

>>14735026
>and the movement
Not surprising since this style of movement is sort of derived from the "early Toei Doga animation" style, which is where Kobo in itself derived from after all.

>>14735144
That Webm turned out so badly.

https://sakuga.yshi.org/data/633e13bde8ca00d06ee6c03a0e8d6a73.mp4

>>14735144
God, the zany blob mid-animation, that is NOT good.

You cannot make out what that is.

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>>14735138
And one more Thunderbolt webm.

>>14735156
>zany blob
go jump in a well you useless faggot

>>14735156
That's the video quality, not the animation itself >>14735154

>>14735158
>0:08
that is straight up bad

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>>14733897
No, because bad animation has always existed.
Don't blame the tools as much as you should blame the person behind the tools.

>>14735161
Go turn into a blob.

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>>14735162
I'm pretty sure that is a blob.

>>14735166
Imagine if Kanada did this. Busterbeam would be calling it good.

>>14735154
I want to fuck the blue and pink girls pretty bad.

>>14735164
Consider these webms like a random sampling of thunderbolt

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>>14735181
Just gotta ignore him.

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>>14735166
And for a more modern day example of bad animation.
Shitshows like Soul Eater Not! are pretty rare though.

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>>14735151
>Post a drawing actually made by Imaishi that's worse.
Your welcome.

>>14735180
Like what the fuck is going there?

Their punches become little jelly blob?

inb4 but muh animashun style
Get gassed, faggot.

>>14734638
>shitpost
>image.jpg

Like pottery. (You).

>>14735197
>>14735202
Extremely high quality thread, great job /m/

>>14735207
How are they shitposts?

inb4 but they are not badly drawn because muh style

>>14735208
please refrain from talking about animation if you have no knowledge about it.
thank you.

>>14735180
>In-betweens
>Shit animation
It's not like you can even see it.

File: [HorribleSubs] Musaigen no Phantom World - 09 [720p].webm (3MB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

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Kyoani consistently animate at a standard far above most other studios. "Muh blob" in-between frames, in the background, for a TV anime is not an argument.

>>14735211
Except I do see it faggot.

If I cannot see it, how can I notice it?
>>14735209
Yeah, only animation *experts* can arbiter what good animation is.

Forgive me for being a pleb, but take that zany ass style sand show it up your ass.

>>14735211
"In-betweens" is a terrible way of defending frames like that. It's just not justified because it's drawn by an inbetweener (there's no way to know if it was, I don't think so), it's just the most basic animation techniques. I doubt the guy even believes this shit, he's just spamming obvious fakeposts for petty reasons.

>>14735215
How is not an argument?

If they animate really well, why don't they animate the individual punches?

What's the matter, too much details for you?

File: the giant.jpg (98KB, 1280x722px) Image search: [Google]

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I have a better question.

Would you mind CGi in mecha shows if every mech looked as good as The Iron Giant?

>>14735215
>in-between frames
urghghhhhhh >>14735217

>>14735215
Too bad they couldn't put that animation quality into a good show.

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>>14735222
Orange exists, so yes.

>>14735221
If it were a full feature length I might be inclined to agree, but what I'm saying is that for a TV anime that didn't even have a specific focus on action it's a cut above what most studios would do. Besides, the only autists that would pick apart a couple of second long cut like that are people like us who might be looking specifically for the things that we want to see. In relation to the rest of the show a detail like that is insignificant.

>>14735235
they drew it that way because it looked funnier

I find it funny a bunch of weebs are talking about quality in anime when half the time your average anime won't get above 8 frames a second

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>>14735242
Yeah and pictures in comic books don't move. Funny, right?

>>14735246
Well comic books are shit.

>>14735235
It does not take a fucking autist to notice blob-like animation, because that happens so regularly now.

Diebuster here is an OVA >>14735197 still badly drawn.

>>14735238
So they fail in an action sequence.

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>>14735259
>>14735264

>>14735242
Someone post some Steven Universe and humor us please.

>>14735270
I do not understand.

>>14735273
Obviously.

>>14735277
What do you want to say?

>>14735280
You don't know what you're talking about regarding animation.

>>14735286
Why?

>>14735228
If this is made in 2D, it would have been good.

But strange, all that grappling and no damage to either sides, shit sucks.

>>14735013
Why would it matter how many stories you wrote before throwing it out the window

>>14735391
Good joke!

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>>14735391

>>14735042
>>14735104
Can't you have weight without it feeling slow?

I don't think animation quality matters much when most shows don't have writing worth a damn.

Why should the animation matter if I can't bring myself to care about the characters or plot? I'm not a child who is amused by just nice looking imagery, I need substance.

>>14735456
Hit submit too soon. Was going to say look at LoGH. What is the one thing that never gets praised in it? The animation, and justifiably so because half the time it's terrible and the other half it's nonexistent. But the audience realizes it honestly doesn't matter much because what the show is about is far more important than what it looks like.

>>14733897
>Would animation quality be better if cel animation was still in use today?

Your question is ill-posed. You're identifying quality with the tools. It doesn't work that way, and you just have to look at 40 years of traditional japanese animation to realise how misguided you are.
Now had you asked, could animation quality be better if huge sums of money were invested in the medium the answer would be yes. And this is true wether the animators used traditional cell animation or CG animation.
In other terms, most japanese animation is low quality not because of the tools, but because not a lot of money is invested in the industry.

>>14735456
I kind of agree. I think a middle of the road or even slightly bad plot can be propped up with sufficiently good animation, but a show that's truly awful/boring can have real great animation and design but still be a chore to watch.

>>14735447
Not really.

Weight makes things slow down.

It doesn't fucking matter whether or not it's digital animation or cel animaton or webgen you fucks.

The only thing that matters is the animator.

Also, what the fuck is with these long german/danish words on my captchas. fuck.

>>14734959
he is internet famous, he doesnt need us anymore

does anyone in this thread actually know anything about animation or is everyone just shitposting?

>>14735046
Look at this fucking millenial.

>>14735765
Were you born in the 70s or earlier? Otherwise you're a millennial. Maybe you want to call him a fag from generation Z?

>>14735775
I was born in 1864, to get our giant robot anime we had to walk all the way to japan, and it was uphill both ways.

>>14733897
yes. just compare macross pre cg and after cg.
macross 7 doesn't count.

>>14735786
I was born in 1926 and back then, we had to fight the mob to get our Japanimation imports. If I didn't play a mean sax that day, I wouldn't eat much less be able to fap to Luky Star.

>>14735798
Damn youngsters. I was born in the year of our lord 1274. To get our oriental collossi woodcuttings we had to go to war with france.

>>14733897
Source?

>>14734674
Source?

>>14735749
The latter. Aside from Otaking, I don't think there's many people on /m/ who actually animate. And even he has crippling flaws as an animator.

>>14735749
Do you?

Have you animated shit?

Or are you just another guy who says this animation is good because I say so?

What about gundam thunderbolt?

its digital but it has tons of shading

I think its a good compromise between old and new

>>14735870
Thunderbolt is what modern OVA should have looked yes.

Fucking love it.

>>14735870
All of that exists mostly to replicate the art style of the manga.

The problem right now is that manga itself has begun to replicate cheaper webgen anime styles.

File: Kidou Senshi Gundam Thunderbolt Vol 06_008.png (682KB, 600x850px) Image search: [Google]

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>>14735891
Except that's not true.

>>14735897
I don't know what you're saying isn't true.

That the ONA tried to get as close to the manga as possible, or that the manga industry in general is leaning towards webgen styles.

You also posted a picture from the part of the manga that wasn't animated to boot.

File: Kidou Senshi Gundam Thunderbolt Vol 06_018.jpg (246KB, 847x1200px) Image search: [Google]

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>>14735903
It isn't true that manga itself has begun to replicate cheaper webgen anime styles.

So if the show keeps following the manga direction, it's gonna be awesome.

>>14734321
Source?

>>14735910
>Space Buddhist newtypes

It shouldve ended at Abaoa Qu

>>14735958
You should have ended at your birth.

Thunderbolt is giving a chance for Zeon to win.

If only the Psycho Zaku is mass-produced!

>>14734532
>-him making some pandering anti-moe comments and other questionable statements that should have no impact on what he actually animates if you're an adult capable of separating creator from creation
What did he say about moe?

>>14735963

This post is so stupid it has to be bait

>>14735975
Not really, what's your problem with an alternate scenario where Zeon wins, buddy?

>>14735008
Source?

File: shitty effects.png (467KB, 1150x649px) Image search: [Google]

467KB, 1150x649px

I don't understand the bizarre idealization of Thunderbolt when stuff like >>14734212 exists that has robots fluidly moving around in 3D space in such a solid, weighty and believable way

I keep clicking webms and it's mostly pretty choppy motion that's neither fluid nor stylishly limited and ugly washed out modern computer coloring (especially the awkward ass gradient use) and some outright amateurish shit like the aforementioned kid's face or the shitty lazy ass "effects animation" here

People keep complaining about modern anime using "pretty" computer shit to hide poor motion, awkward digital coloring and all that and this show is one of the best examples of that.

>>14736023
Because it looks good, the mechs look weighty and there are no detail losses.
>and some outright amateurish shit like the aforementioned kid's face
Compare to Imaishi's face? That's not amateur.

>>14735135
>KyoAni should focus on making visual novels/moege instead.
You mean adaptations, right?

>>14734212
That's an impressive scene, but even then I feel that well-done CG mecha animation will be able to convey weight and form much better. 2D animation really doesn't excel at mechanical stuff.

>>14736047
No, I mean if they like SoL as much as they do, they should make visual novels/moege, those feel more alive than any animated trites.

File: 50e31806be610274107ce4eac6b9ab1a.webm (2MB, 854x480px) Image search: [Google]

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>>14736023
There is just so much actually impressive stuff in Gundam I just can't help but wonder how people can go through it all then go "WOW HOLY CRAP" at Thunderbolt

>>14736070
I hope you are not saying that is superior to Thunderbolt.

File: e2cd2f45adc46a7936987882821818c1.gif (1015KB, 500x333px) Image search: [Google]

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>>14736036
Holy fuck dude why are you still here after the nap I took?
>>14736070
Crap I posted the wrong thing, I meant to post this

Though that G-Reco scene is not bad, the motion tweening thing at the end is cheap but the rest has good impact.

>>14736070
Sejoon Kim's work in Build Fighters and Age are some of my favourite recent cuts from Gundam.
Speaking of Gundam, what did you think of the approach to coloring and composite in G-Reco?

>>14736080
Because why the fuck would I not be here?

And that G-Reco tries, but some of the mechs are clearly still frames that don't even move.

>>14736080
Man, it's not fair to compare Iso's animation to anything from Thunderbolt. Dude's a real animation legend.

>>14734212
Source?

>>14736056
This is one of the most stupid things i've ever read.

>>14736111
But it's true.

>>14733897
Nah. It all depends on

>Talent
>Does the studio actually give a shit about the show
>Budget

File: 1208762184221.jpg (144KB, 1024x768px) Image search: [Google]

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>>14736078
I posted the wrong thing but I do think G-Reco beats Thunderbolt sometimes

The way the mech slashes at the beginning looks better than the extremely choppy flying animation at 0:08 here >>14735158

For a more clear example look at the soaring in the G Gundam OPs:

https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/8074/animated-artist_unknown-effects-gundam-mecha-mobil

https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/4254/animated-artist_unknown-effects-gundam-mecha-mobil

I guess you could say "not fair cuz it's an OP" and while I think that applies to the level of shading, the timing of the animation is a pure skill thing. It's about knowing when to draw the moment-to-moment motion and when to just make it zoom past quickly to create a sense of tension and release. The Thunderbolt gif doesn't do that, it's just evenly choppy.

man why is my post not appearing

>>14736103
8th MS Team

>>14736124
Dude, the slashes in G-Reco are the same shit in TTGL.

They slash BAM explosion, free frame, no damage no effect, no anything, that shit is unnatural and feel nothing.

And as much as I love G Gundam, no, that's not a particular good shot of it flying, and I fail to see how the Psycho Zaku zig zagging is choppy.

>>14735660

But actual swords weren't heavy and could be swung fast. A 5 ft long scottish bastard sword was like...12 lbs at worst. The idea that big weapons are inherently heavy betrays reality.

>>14736098
I made a more fair comparison here >>14736124 with some G Gundam clips that don't even have an animator tag

I think the 1st person Zaku clip is the best Thunderbolt clip one posted here but I don't think it comes even close to >>14734212
>>14736091
https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/11439/animated-artist_unknown-background_animation-debri this is more lively but I don't think it's a good comparison with Thunderbolt because it's too cartoony so it's sort of apples and oranges
>>14736090
I think G-Reco goes a bit too far with the computer stuff but it's much more forgivable than Thunderbolt IMO

The colors in Thunderbolt bother me because there are so many better ways to make a dark and gritty color scheme

>>14736146
Go pick up a sword and swing it around, nerd.

You would get sweaty real fucking quick.

>>14736155

Exertion doesn't really matter much to a machine. It either can swing it or it can't.

File: shoot.gif (1007KB, 500x375px) Image search: [Google]

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>>14736138
>and I fail to see how the Psycho Zaku zig zagging is choppy
BECAUSE IT'S SO EVEN.

G-Reco and Gurren do "wacky" snappy motion that you hate so much well while something like >>14734212 does more realistic and fluid stuff well. That Zaku soaring about does neither well, I dunno what it's even going for.

>>14736158
Also I made a mistake. I meant claymore when I said bastard sword, and they actually weighed only about half of what I said they did.

File: stab.gif (835KB, 250x187px) Image search: [Google]

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>>14736166
Even animation is not effective because it lacks impact. Same with that Black Getter slashing motion you keep getting assblasted over me not liking.

>>14736149
How exactly is that more "lively" than Thunderbolt?

The fucking mechs barely even more, even the punch itself is coated into some sort of effect to make it seems strong, and instead of crushing the enemy, it punches it away like a fucking sandbag.

>The colors in Thunderbolt bother me because there are so many better ways to make a dark and gritty color scheme
Oh boy, not surprise from someone who also dislikes Getter Armageddon color schemes.

>>14736166
How is it so even?

That's actually how a mech would move in space with a thruster, it's going to constantly zig zagging.

>G-Reco and Gurren do "wacky" snappy motion that you hate so much well
Except if it's snappy, it's not even well animated.
>does more realistic and fluid stuff well.
An entire different scene, and if you ever see Thunderbolt city battle, I would say that even blows away the Gouf Custom fight.

>>14736173
Except the Black Getter slashing fucking impacts and rips apart the target. It's exactly what happens if you cut something.

I'm not assblasted for you not liking it, I'm just laughing at you when you say the TTGL shit is better.

They should all stick to manga. It's a better medium in terms of pacing, and design, and all the characters sound exactly the way the audience wants them to.

>>14736149
G-Reco seems to have tried aping some visual features of cel animation such as rough line art and paint droplets in effects animation, but I thought that was quite gimmicky.

>>14736158
Except even a machine can be tired if it's made to do the same thing over and over again.

The joint is going to get damaged.

>>14736183
Link it or post more webms or something

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-Z6vcNX4_E#t=3m22s I'm watching that fight and it's full of great stuff, nothing I've seen of Thunderbolt yet comes even close.
>>14736174
>also dislikes Getter Armageddon color schemes
I never said I dislike Getter Armageddon's colors, they're actually great lol

Reality headcanon strawman #99999999

>>14736169
Pick up any a machete and swings it really hard in quick succession, ya nigger is going to sweat for sure.

Do it and get back to me.

There's nothing "realistic" about fucking TTGL movement, even the mechs move like jelly.

>>14736194
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXBaaKMop1w

>I never said I dislike Getter Armageddon's colors, they're actually great lol
Oh yeah, you hate the "mature" feel of it, haha.

>>14736196
>Pick up any a machete and swings it really hard in quick succession, ya nigger is going to sweat for sure.

I do have a sword, and the weight isn't what makes me tired, it's that it's a tad unwieldy and I'm obvious not trained to use it because I haven't been forced to swing it thousands of times to build muscle. Little me swinging it is not the same as a trained warrior swinging it.

That being said, I can swing it fast. Because of its weight distribution, once you start swinging it, after it gets to a certain point in the arc of your swing the sword's own momentum carries it the rest of the way and as long as you don't let go of it, it's a rather fast and fluid motion.

Also, keep in mind that we actually don't know how western swordfighting worked, because no one wrote it down. It was all passed on orally and that was lost, so now the only approximation is from studying painting and tapestries from the time to try and figure out their techniques. It's not like the Japanese who wrote down and codified how to properly swing their swords.

>There's nothing "realistic" about fucking TTGL movement, even the mechs move like jelly.

I never said anything about GL, I'm just saying that Escaflowne's slow swings is based on a misconception of western weapons.

>>14736204
There are some nice scenes in the middle but I still don't feel anything beats the best stuff in the MS Team fight.

but-

0:36 LOOK AT HOW THAT ROBOT JUST SNAPS INTO PLACE. It looks amateurish as fuck.

That's the basic fundamental thing you are missing when you talk about the Black Getter slashing and whatnot. I'm not talking about "impact" in the sense of "this character gets hit and bleeds" or "this guy's face gets fucked up when being punched". Not about individual drawings but the way they FLOW. That's a simple aspect of animation you seem to completely ignore in all of your posts and then call me a cancerous faggot ruining the board for acknowledging the existence of. Shit as basic as the wind-up of a punch having more frames than the release because the release is supposed to be faster. You completely ignore this and act like "impact" in animation is just blood and gore or whatever.