Gundam’s Tomino Questions Kabaneri’s Storytelling

I mean I can see his angle

But one of my favorite anime episodes from anything ever was episode 5 of the original Fullmetal Alchemist anime, which had an amazing train fight.

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>>14723453
What about flying space trains on SPACE rails?

it's kind of odd that they've somehow developed a massive rail network for supertrains but the system doesn't need that much maintenance, even with most of the wilderness being no man's land due to zombies

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>trains can't fly

He found fault with the fact that it took place on a train, and not with how the show took a general nosedive when Biba started showing up?

>>14723498
The show was shit before Biba came in.

As I greatly dislike Kabaneri, he couldn't be more right about how from the start it was clearly not going to go well. However, he clearly hasn't seen Snowpiercer

>>14723515
Before Biba came in it was junk food trash. The thing you know is bad but is unoffensively bad and just action schlock.

Then Biba came in and it tried to "be something" and then went full shit

>>14723498

It doesn't sound like Tomino watched it to comment on specific details, but just faulted one of the general details of the setting. I don't think Tomino watches much of anything, anime or otherwise, so it shouldn't be surprising he hasn't seen it.

>>14723495

Hahaha so true, and even funnier is that that show is from the same era as Gundam. xD

>>14723555
Yeah, that. I thought it had a kind of interesting setting and pretty visuals, but the writing was really underwhelming, and Biba's crew only made it worse.

>>14723453
TOBE KABANERI

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way to miss the fucking point of the show, old man

>>14723453
>>Apparently Tomino was not a fan of the series’ main setting the Kotetsujo, a heavily-armored train, because trains are “on rails, can’t deviate from their path and can’t fly,” and that doesn’t work well for an action series. Tomino continued that he’d noticed this back when he thought about using the Trans-Siberian Railway in his series Overman King Gainer.

Ironically both were written by Okouchi who Tomino bad mouthed for not doing a good enough a job on Gainer.

>>14723657
does he have a train fetish?

>>14723549
Tomino's probably considering his own limits as a storyteller as some sort of insurmountable wall

>>14723670
No, that's Leiji Matsumoto

>>14723453
>because trains are “on rails, can’t deviate from their path and can’t fly,”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDm--epEogk

>>14723617
I liked most of the main cast, but yeah, the whole situation with Biba was a bummer.

The last episode was a funny goof, but not enough to salvage the series.

Anyways these seem like very strange complaints by Tomino.

>>14723557
He watched Madoka and Frozen.

Of all the things to get bothered by...

Well, Tomino was always a class S troll. Sounds more like he's ribbing the premise for the hell of it.

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>For one thing, trains are no good!”

What does he mean by this?

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>>14723453
>Tomino questioning other people's storytellings after the Greco fiasco
The madman. Sasuga Tomino.

>>14723725
Setting it on a train means that the plot is literally on rails. Unless you derail and ditch the train, you can really only go in one direction with minor departures.

As opposed to setting it on a ship that can go anywhere it wants.

>>14723453
frankly I'm not too impressed by Kabaneri, visuals are great but I just can't get into it
>"For one thing, trains are no good!"
opinion fucking discarded

>>14723688
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_AZikitKcs

>>14723731
what if the tracks conveniently take it wherever it needs to go?

>>14723745
Then you complain about the train never derailing into a trainwreck.

>>14723723
And Love Live.

>>14723495
Apparently Leiji watched Eva.

>>14723728
Found the retard

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Tomino and Araki collab when?

>>14723453
>tomino giving anyone shit for story telling
>because trains are “on rails, can’t deviate from their path and can’t fly,”

thanks op, this shit made my day better

>>14723813
Wow that's sad.

Why does anyone care what Tomino thinks?
Because he made 1 decent show 40 years ago?
He can barely direct a coherent story himself and his stories are about space mutant artists piloting big metal samurai jedi and he's giving people shit because he doesn't like Snowpiercer.

>>14723724

Stop calling it trolling. He just said a dumb thing.

>>14723847
>>14723853
>>14723813
Looks like ANN and MAL just came in. I can smell the stupid leaking in to the thread.

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>>14723876

>>14723876

If they're so stupid why don't you shut them down, smart guy, instead of crying "waaaah waaah anyone who disagrees with me is ANN?"

Oh right, because you're the one who actually belongs at ANN if this is the level of post you can contribute.

>>14723909
>>14723891
Sup ANN. Stay assmad that Tomino called Attack On Titan shit?

>>14723876
Oh look, it's the Trainwreckofag!

>>14723914
I guess snk was a decent adaptation of a mediocre at best source material but calling it shit while he did ZZ seems like hypocrisy

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>Tomino has an opinion on a shitty anime
>You can't criticize this shitty anime Tomino after you made something that triggered me

>>14723924
>a decent adaptation
>take a manga with elements of horror and mystery to it
>make it a big dumb action movie to appeal to retards

>>14723914

Attack on Titan is shit.
Kabaneri is shit.
But Tominoshit is shitty too so it's just one shitty creator talking down to younger shitty creators.

Tomino is the equivalent of some old fucking drunk dude living in a shit shack on welfare calling his son a loser because Tomino scored a touchdown once in high school. Seriously, all he does is appear in these crappy interviews shitting on other series over dumb things like "it's on a train, it must be garbage!"

The guy has no room to talk.

>>14723929
it's a shonen series
>>14723926
of cuorse tomino can critize anything he want, but say something like ''trains are “on rails, can’t deviate from their path and can’t fly,” and that doesn’t work well for an action series. '' it's just dumb.

other than that kabaneri had, a lot of problems with pacing, characters (expecially second part mumei and biba), and the overall retardation of Okuchi's script

>>14723929
>mystery
Please it was obvious from the getgo that eotens were people.

Eotens is the dumbest bullshit I've ever experienced in any form. Shit I can totally buy the idea that the author decided to rip off of Muv Luv with the way Eren progresses then regresses at the drop of a hat.

What the fuck, he says one thing about one aspect of the setting and suddenly he's hating on the whole show? Fuck off.

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>>14723944
>But Tominoshit is shitty too

>believing you can't use trains as a key plot point when Baccano already exists
nigga please

>>14723993

There's tons of stories featuring trains. Like Murder on the Orient Express. Tomino just said something really fucking stupid. That's all this is. Tomino opened his mouth and put his foot in it.

He makes a valid point.

Limiting a show's movement in the setting is not a good idea.

It can be done, and it can be done well, but it's a matter of the writer's preference. Different writers want to write different things, and Tomino has directed enough shows for us to know that he prefers to explore a setting than limit the viewers in a concentrated point within the setting.

Hell, that's what G-Reco was all about.

The only reason anyone would have any problem with this is if they're not willing to accept that other people want to tell different kinds of stories.

You know, the kind of person who'd exaggerate a famous person's opinion for the sake of a click bait article.

>>14724066
>The only reason anyone would have any problem with this is if they're not willing to accept that other people want to tell different kinds of stories.

But isn't that what he's doing?

"hey tomino, I'm working on this show set on a train, what do you think"
"eh could be bad since trains are pretty constrained in terms of freedom of movement"

wow what a big story

>>14724103

Does Tomino think any story where you don't wander around aimlessly in some huge place is bad? This explains a lot if you think about it.

>>14724066
TOO LONG, DIDN'T READ LOL

>>14723993
>Bacanno
>story that takes place in different time period and settings
>the setting in the train is the least relevant aspect of the story
>>14724005
>Murder on the Orient Express
Which just has trains as a setpiece for the mystery, you can have the exact same story on anywhere else. Also he's talking about action series which the example you posted ain't.

>>14724270

The train setting is important in Orient Express since it's a train so once it's moving no one can get on or off, narrowing the list of suspects.

>>14724291
Congrats you can do that with a plane.

>>14724301

What exactly is your point? You can have good stories on a plane or a train.

>>14724314
Or an automobile.

I mean, Speed is kinda dumb but it's a thrilling sort of dumb.

>>14724314
Planes can fly.
Trains can't.

>>14724314
If you think about it, the setting being on an enclosed vehicle with a fixed destination can add to the tension in a story. It seems that in Tomino's opinion, the most important is the freedom and the feeling of adventure, and while that's not necessarily a wrong way to think, not every story has to be built around those elements or even have them.

>>14724324

So?

>>14724328

But a train ride can be an adventure too, since the train can have to stop, and if it is traveling a long distance you can see all different places. Tomino needs some imagination.

>>14723453
When nips criticize a show it always feels like they're watching a different show entirely.

>>14723723
>>14723756
Tomino confirmed for fucking casual.

>>14723498
Maybe he dropped it.

EVASIVE MANEUVERS

> Okay, Tomino-san – still, some folks might argue Kabaneri was quite a bit more entertaining than your last directorial effort. Just saying.
Somebody's butt is burning.

>>14724072
No, do you have actual brain damage?

>>14724829
>people from an entirely different culture
>have different views on things

COLOUR ME SURPRISED!!!!!!!!!


God I fucking hope you 4chan whiteboy fucks one day decides to get outside of your rooms and small towns and actually experience other cultures and peoples for once in your life

>b-but /int/ and /pol/!!!
Yeah, generally white people posting on a western imageboard in English using outdated and inaccurate memes is a really good way to understand the differences between cultures.
You'd be surprised how little anyone on the anime boards on 4chan genuinely knows about Japan, despite it being the country of origin for their entertainment medium. I mean how many fucking posts do you get every year from people "Whaat??!? They eat KFC for Christmas WTF?!?!"

>>14725001
I agree desu

White shitlibs are the worst.

>>14725001
I'm not white though, you faggot.

And you don't need to get culturally enriched to understand fucking anime, Popular shows in japan tend to be popular everywhere, maybe not to the same degree, but it transcends culture because it has themes that are understandable by all.

This whole thread is people bending over backwards to make excuses because God forbid Tomino has a stupid opinion.

Araki must have the patience of a saint to not just tell Tomino to fuck off already.

Although nothing will really top Tomino dumping on Araki's episode of G-Reco, when it was the first episode of the series that didn't feel like it was storyboarded and directed by a fucking amateur

>>14725083

Which one was that?

>>14724324
Planes have only so much fuel and can only land in pretty specific places if it wants to ever take off again.

Planes are pretty damn restricted too.

>>14725088
Episode 10.

Yeah...he's full of shit.

>>14725088

Episode 10

>>14725083
>>14725076
Sup ANN

>>14725090
There's a plethora of stories where planes take an entire different path or even crash on a different place from what was predetermined. Trains don't have that.

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>>14725083
>Although nothing will really top Tomino dumping on Araki's episode of G-Reco, when it was the first episode of the series that didn't feel like it was storyboarded and directed by a fucking amateur

>>14725091
>>14725092

How did Tomino shit on him? What'd he say?

>>14725103
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2014-11-27/gundam-yoshiyuki-tomino-shares-thoughts-on-working-with-attack-on-titan-tetsuro-araki/.81398

>Araki was shocked when he received Tomino's feedback on his storyboards. Over a hundred notes had been attached to the pages, some with brutal comments like "This is nauseating" and "I want them to understand the direction of this scene." But Araki expected this sort of treatment from Tomino, and even says that he treasured the notes. "I stuck them on my desk," he admitted.

Basically not kissing his ass is the same thing as shitting on him I suppose

>>14723453
He barely criticized it and thought trains were weird for an action setting.

They are, they're easy to fuck up and incredibly hard settings to escape from. You'd have to write more conveniences for why the train can stop and start with minimal ease, handling roadblocks etc than anything else.

So you either end up like Baccano or you get a show about helping a train along a path with a boss fight at the end.

Whatever, thread will get 300 shitposts anyway.

>>14725108

"This is nauseating" isn't "not kissing his ass," Tominofag. That's rude as fuck. And it's funny because Tomino is complaining he can't follow Araki's story when G-Reco under Tomino's hand was such a fuck up that even people who praise it think it was confusing on purpose as some sort of meta-statement.

>Japanese social critic and editor-in-chief of the PLANETS magazine, Uno Tsunehiro, gave it a highly positive critical response, stating that "[It is] in my humble opinion, this disorientation is somewhat intended... What we see here may be an intense message that goes against the times."

>>14725120
Storyboarding and actual script writing are different, dude. You can't go around calling everyone who disagrees with you Tominofags.

The storyboarding for G-Reco was fine aside from some animation errors here and there, it's presentation was fine. It's the writing around it that was confusing, you can have a scene present itself any number of ways but if what's being said doesn't make sense then it's worthless.

>>14725128

It was the same Tomino writing and direction as he's been doing forever. Stop trying to shift blame onto other guys. Tomino owns this failure. I still remember when faggots were posting Tomino's G-Rectum storyboards fawning over how detailed they were and saying he probably exhibited more control over his work than anyone except Miyazaki and it was all him. Now it's not all him, anything bad was surely due to writers.

So is Tomino a genius because he has so much control over his product? Or is he not a great director for anything he's ever done because it was a team effort, so constantly praising him is stupid? You can't have it both ways when it's convenient.

Everything I read about Tomino makes me like him less. All he does is shittalk others when his own catalogue of work is full of bombs and messes. And the only thing that's worse are the people who defend him with these piss poor arguments like the ones in this thread.

>"If you dislike Tomino you're from MAL"
>"It wasn't him, it was other guys, someone must have misunderstood him or something"
>"W-well the thing he's talking about is shit anyway so who cares if he was rude?"

>>14725120
>"This is nauseating" isn't "not kissing his ass," Tominofag. That's rude as fuck.

Especially in the context that he's saying that in comparison to the nine episodes before it. That Tomino did himself. That were shoddy as hell in general.

>>14725145
I never shifted blame on anyone, I called Tomino's scriptwriting bad, I expressly said that.

What is wrong with you?

>>14725152

I was talking about Tomino's storyboards, because I was replying to a discussion about Tomino's criticism of Araki's storyboards. You then started talking about how storyboarding and writing is different, as though you were shifting blame towards writers, even though Tomino storyboarded and wrote.

I don't give a fuck, I just think Tomino is the biggest naked emperor in anime and it's made worse by him constantly saying stupid bullshit talking down to others.

>>14725156
And I called it shit yet you're going off on this tangent on how much you hate Tomino, naked emperor this, hypocrite that.

Relax guy, not everyone is trying to fight you. Stop taking everything so personally.

>>14725162

I'm not "going off," you asked what was wrong and I explained. Why do you think everyone is so mad all the time? Do you really think I'm so mad at Tomino's opinion that I'm mashing the keyboard here?

I'm drinking coffee and checking my emails and I pop back in here to follow the discussion because I think Tomino is an overrated shit with an annoying defense force. Why don't YOU calm down?

>>14725149
There was nothing wrong with the episodes that came before it. Funny thing is that the same retards saying episode 10 had better storyboarding are the same dumbfucks who couldn't even follow the anime.

>>14725156
>>14725145
You just had a complete meltdown over Tomino criticizing Araki's storyboards and replied to someone who realized Tomino does good storyboards but his actual writing is shit.

>>14724332
The problem isn't that you can't have an adventure with it, its the fact that the feeling of adventure is more limited with a train than any other form of transport because the places that you have to go are all on the same track without any form of deviation. I.e there's an obvious starting point on the railway and an obvious ending point.

>>14725120
>The critic is praising Tomino's own rubric for direction and didn't even say its confusing
>this is the same as saying he fucked up G-Reco
Also Tomino didn't even say Kabaneri was confusing, the setting being restricted to the train would lead itsrlf into problems which it fucking did.

>>14725168
I don't have to calm down, dude. I'm perfectly fine and capable of expressing my opinions without sounding like I was personally wounded by the man.

King Gainer was very similar to G-Reco but wasnt as much of a mess cause it was written by someone else.

>>14725171

But I didn't have a complete meltdown, I think it's funny that Tomino shits on some guy's storyboards when G-Reco was total garbage, because of him. You just projected some kind of anger onto my posts. You really have no idea how I feel because it's words on a screen.

>>14725170

I could follow it, it just wasn't good.

>>14725174

Apparently Tomino's complaint was that trains are a bad setting for an action series because they can't fly. Apparently flying capability is what is essential for an action series, to Tomino.

>>14725184

Are you retarded or something? I didn't say that guy said he fucked up G-Reco. I said that even the people who think G-Reco is good admit it's confusing and say it's confusing in some intentional meta way.

In that part I quoted it even says the guy is giving a positive response. And did you even read that quote? It's one fucking line.

> "[It is] in my humble opinion, this disorientation is somewhat intended... What we see here may be an intense message that goes against the times."

>disorientation
>may be an intense message
>may be

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>>14725145
>>14725120
>>14725145
>>14725149
>>14725156
>>14725168
>its a retard go on an ant-Tomino chimp out episode
What is ot about Tomino that triggers so many stupid people

>Tomino criticizes shows based around trains and rails and going on a predetermined route to a predetermined location
>what is King Gainer

>>14725187
>King Gainer was very similar to G-Reco but wasnt as much of a mess cause it was written by someone else.
You do realize ot was written by Okouchi right?

>>14725192
He used you can't fly as a way of stating that you need some sort of freedom to properly explore the setting. Which is correct because trains are very limited in terms of there's basically no sense of freedom compared to say a plane or just plain walking because where you're going is already predetermined.

>>14725195
>Tomino continued that he’d noticed this back when he thought about using the Trans-Siberian Railway in his series Overman King Gainer.

He obviously thinks that using that for a setting was a bad idea after King Gainer.

>>14723453
>For one thing, trains are no good!
What the fuck I hate Tomino now

>>14725187

It's pretty obvious that the less Tomino has to do with something, the better off it is. My problem is that despite how incredibly obvious this fact is, people insist Tomino is some sort of brilliant man, when every indication is that he is not.

And then Tomino goes around shitting on everyone else like he's God, despite being so incapable of telling a coherent story himself.

It's like the old story where people think random garbage on the floor or something similar is art.

>>14723723
>>14723756
Maybe he's a yurifag.

>>14725192
>I could follow it, it just wasn't good.
Sure you did

>>14725200
>He obviously thinks that using that for a setting was a bad idea after King Gainer.
I have no idea WHY, King Gainer was pretty fun outside of the Overdevil arc, and even that wasn't a total waste.

>>14725196
I'm aware of it, and Okouchi wrote Kabaneri. Kabaneri was lackluster but it wasnt confusing.

In fact King Gainer is why he mentioned the train thing, it's write there in the source.

>>14725206
>trains are “on rails, can’t deviate from their path and can’t fly,”

He's probably really fond of flying after working on so many mecha series but the first part is a legitimate problem for trains in certain genres compared to other modes of travel.

>>14725200
>He used you can't fly as a way of stating that you need some sort of freedom to properly explore the setting. Which is correct because trains are very limited in terms of there's basically no sense of freedom compared to say a plane or just plain walking because where you're going is already predetermined.

Planes need runways to land, and travel from place to place very quickly. They are basically air trains. And when someone boards a plane, they usually know where they're going/want to go. Planes also can't just land freely, they need a runway, or a smooth patch of land as long as a runway.

The only reason you can "explore the setting" in a plane is if the plane is somehow diverted, or crashes, or has to land and refuel. You can do basically the same thing in a train. There's an obstruction on the tracks. The train stalls. The train derails. It's not as limiting as one would think.

>>14725207
>this guy who helped me make King Gainer made another show people like way more?
>TIME TO SHIT ON BOTH OF THEM, HA HA
Not gonna lie, it totally sounds like something Tomino would do.

>>14725212

I don't think Tomino is trolling. I think this is what he actually believes, and it's just so dumb people think he's gotta be trolling.

>>14725192
>I said that even the people who think G-Reco is good admit it's confusing and say it's confusing in some intentional meta way.
But he's not saying its confusing he's saying that its disorientation was intentional. Wow you are a fucking retard.

>>14725202
>>14725192
I think the thing is that you guys put Tomino on this pedestal and then when he's shown as less than stellar you make all this fuss about knocking him down a peg. To the point where you so into this idea that anyone who isn't writing parables to shit on him must think he's a literal genius.

It's very weird when even Reddit, MAL and Mechatalk handle the old mans comments better than /m/.

>>14725208
To be honest, that doesn't sound super limiting if you have anything resembling a decent rail network. Trains go all over the damn place.

I mean yeah, it might be more limiting than having the super special flying battleship like Tomino shows often do, but I'm of the opinion that limits can be a very good thing for inspiring creativity, giving you both something to base a framework on and something to try to write around.

It can be way too easy to just wander aimlessly, bother literally and narratively, without something to write on/against.

>>14725209
>A runway or a suitably smooth patch of land
Which is still more options than a railway. Its also still easier to get back on track to your destination if something happens to the train compared to a plane crash.

>>14725215

He doesn't even know if the disorientation was intentional. He said "in my opinion" and "maybe." He's not even sure.

>>14725219
*both, not bother

>>14725206
>I have no idea WHY
King Gainer never really capitalize or used its setting to its full potential hence why it ends abruptly with nothing being resolved. In fact nobody even remembers that King Gainer has trains in it because its such a non-entity to the show itself.

>>14725216

It would probably not be the case if you did not have fags claiming Tomino is a master of subtlety and human interaction and that if you think otherwise you just "didn't get it."

>>14725220

The point is that just because a train is on rails doesn't mean it's unworkable as a setting for an action series. Tomino is dumb if he thinks just because it's on a train everything is fucked and you need flight or else you can't have adventure. He said a dumb thing.

>>14725225
>King Gainer never really capitalize or used its setting to its full potential hence why it ends abruptly with nothing being resolved.
That sounds more of a failure on the creators' end in fleshing things out, and less on the mode of transportation used to get there.

>In fact nobody even remembers that King Gainer has trains in it because its such a non-entity to the show itself.
They deal with them constantly. The rails are everywhere, and were a major factor in the Overdevil fucking everything over. Their most common opponent is the fucking Siberian RAILWAY.

I get the feeling people here only know Gainer through the SRWs.

>>14725229
Its not that you can't have adventure, it sounds like he was more going for, you're condensing the amount of available options before it even starts.

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>>14723453
>Tomino IRL shitposting

Literally, who cares? His opinion on the matter isn't any more important than any other randomer that's seen the show.

>>14725229
>The point is that just because a train is on rails doesn't mean it's unworkable as a setting for an action series.
The very fucking fact that no one has brought up a series counter to his claim proves his point so its not a dumb statement at all.

>>14725242

Snowpiercer?

>>14725236
King Gainer didn't use trains as it's primary use of transportation, they had giant bug vehicle ships that pulled parts of mega structures along the ice.

The railway was constructed to go across Siberia and they often ran into/came very close to it.

>>14725225
>No one remembers it has trains in it
You have that fag in the second half who's entirely upset over Gainer messing up his diamond shaped railway system. The antagonists of the first half partner with the Siberian railway police people aswell and the show features recurring characters from that faction.

Hell one of the side characters within MCs group comes from that place. The railway is more important than the trains themselves but trains were featured heavily in King Gainer.

>>14725242
Kishin Corps.

>>14725242
>You have to make a show that shows trains arent a restrictive setting just to disprove one man.
Fuck off.

>>14725242

Rail Wars?

>>14725236
The main focus of Gainer was basically, they want to go from Point A to Point B and they have no choice but to oppose the railway guys.

>>14725236
>That sounds more of a failure on the creators' end in fleshing things out, and less on the mode of transportation used to get there.
Well he couldn't really no anything with the trains itself other than "its a thing that exists" which begs the question why they were needed in the first place?
>They deal with them constantly
They don't. You never see anyone make a big deal over them since the show runs in a MotW format that the Syberia Railways are just a background setting than something that has a profound effect on the plot like the Overman.

For what's now pretty obscure King Gainer gets a lot of slack from here especially when the confounds if its story makes no sense.

>>14725252
The City Units themselves technically weren't on rails, but they were being pulled by big, heavy, trainlike engines and were on a planned route to a specific destination. It's a bit of a stretch, maybe, but thematically it fits to a T.

>>14725260

Why didn't they just go around the railroad since the railroad guys were on rails and thus, if Tomino is correct, they can't leave them?

>>14725261
>which begs the question why they were needed in the first place?
The Domes are in Siberia and trains are used to transport food, goods and people over incredibly long distances. It's literally a life line for the people living there.

>>14725247
The train just just a set piece and makes the least amount of sense to the actual narrative.
>>14725253
Has nothing to do with trains in fact they make less of a significant portion to the plot.
>>14725259
Hahahahahahaha

>>14725263
Only a few people of the Siberian Railway cared about stopping the Exodus. Another faction called London IMA was spearheadding the anti-Exodus operation and only borrowed their forces.

Other than that Adette attacked the railway to steal food after refugees and people who initially were on it for the exodus started butting heads over food and medicine.

>>14725263
But the railway people can leave them as they actively hunt after the team on a regular basis. They also wanted to restrict persons from going on an Exodus and force them to use the railway.

Honest question: is Tomino a retard?

>>14725267
They literally have teleporting mecha in the setting.

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Here's what you can do with railroads.

>>14725272
>But the railway people can leave them

But Tomino said...

>>14725263
There's more to rail networks than 'one set of easily-avoidable tracks', especially in a place like gainer's Siberia where there's lots of cities, supply bases, and switching stations, and the railway is the only reliable method across the tundra for most people.

It's much more like a spider's web connecting everything nearby to everything else; there's no real way TO avoid the tracks for long.

They have to cross them (and deal with the Rail guards) repeatedly, which factors heavily into why the Exodus took years of planning, contracting out experts, and stealing a powerful enough Overman to help balance the scales.

And even then they still almost screwed the pooch more than once.

>>14725221
You really are stupid.
>>14725226
Why is it that people who hate Tomino never realized the irony in what they write?

>>14725275
Yapan had the best ninjas.

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>>14725277
Looks like we have ourselves a winner. Kabaneri suffered the exact same problem. Its almost like Tomino takes his own mistakes and uses them to criticize others not because he's a dick but because he's been there like a certain mangaka making a manga about giants to represent his repressed bullying trama.

>>14725275
All things considered the Yapan Ninja's did not fuck around.

>>14725290

He sure sounds like a dick though.

>>14725282
>Why is it that people who hate Tomino never realized the irony in what they write?
Too busy trying to dismantle a narrative crafted by shitposters who browse the same board as them to realize the irony in their statements.

Why are all G-Reco fans exactly like Maurice? Is G-Reco comfy?

>>14724270
Train to Busan is basically Kabaneri made by Gooks

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>>14725259

From the moment trains were invented every creator understood this. The ones that didn't ended up producing shit stories.

You can feature a train in the setting but you can't make a train the setting.

There is literally only one way to make a train a setting and it can only work in film or a novel. A suspense murder mystery. The train then becomes a claustrophobic setting increasing tension, there is an end point making it impossible for the train to go on forever, and it limits outside interference.

For an action story trains can only work as a scene or a plot device delivering/carrying something.

>>14725367

Snowpiercer.

>>14725372
Was bad.

>>14723657
It's a silly position if true since Tomino as director was the one who gave orders to Okouchi so that means he was failing at his own job.

>>14725242
>just because no one did it yet means it's impossible
It is a dumb statement because it shows that Tomino is not willing to push boundaries and thinks that his limitation as a creator is something that no one else can overcome.

>>14725367

Жeлтaя cтpeлa.

>>14725367
Unstoppable.

Unless you want to argue the setting isn't so much the out of control train as it is the local area and passers by watching a train barrel out of control with only two conductors and their locomotive engine throwing it in reverse in a last ditch effort to slow down the train before it flies off the rails into a city on a really bad turn.

Look I might be selling Unstoppable poorly but that film is fucking amazing. Very simple premise executed brilliantly and providing far more entertainment than you would expect from a movie glued to the tracks by design.

I like Tomino but dicksucking him in every position isn't going to do you good.

>>14727092
Hey, people dicksuck other famous anime guys like Miyazaki in every position even when he brought up his thoughts on the Charlie Hebdo attacks, so I can't see why we couldn't do the same with Tomino :)

>>14727113
Well, it's going to make you look like fucking retards, that's what happens.

>>14727014
well there hasnt been a series that proved him wrong. snowpiercer is medicore and everyother book is shit. and kabeneri sucks. those are just the train shows that jump to the mind.

>>14727137
What about Baccano? The longest plotline took place inside a train.

>>14727137
His whole point is that train can't deviate from their path and can't fly so it's no good, meaning any series that the protagonists have to go through a certain route and is entirely land based automatically proves him wrong.

>>14727141
>What about Baccano?
Already pointed out in the thread that the plot isn't centered on the train and encompasses over 70 years with different characters and stories, the train is about the least rought up aspect of it.
>The longest plotline took place inside a train.
Anime-only faggot please

>>14727092
>>14727120
>Director makes a point
>dicksucking

Yeah because shitting on him at every turn doesn't make you an obsessive retard

>>14727164
If you obsessively defend every points he makes, then yes, that's dicksucking.

>>14727154
Go to see you didn't even bother to read the article.

>>14727154
>meaning any series that the protagonists have to go through a certain route and is entirely land based automatically proves him wrong.
But is a train?

>>14723453
Kabaneri's problems don't have anything to do with the train though. The story was sloppy.

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>>14727178
>Kabaneri's problems don't have anything to do with the train

>>14727186

He's right though. Kabaneri would have been stupid as fuck no matter what mode of transportation they used.

>>14727161

I don't see how that's relevant though. Baccano had several changes from the source material and yet still was considered a good show in spite of increasing the focus on the train plotline compared to the source.

>>14727215
>>I don't see how that's relevant though
You don't see how the basis of the fucking plot in Baccano had shit to do with whether it was on a train or not? is relevant?

>>14727215
The actual plot in Baccano has nothing to do with the train, its only there for one arc which only the anime covers.

>>14725372
The interesting thing here is, Snowpiercer is an action story, but it's also one that technically fits what >>14725367
sees as the way to make a train story work - i.e. It has a set end point. The trick is it's not the train reaching its destination, it's the occupants determined to reach the front of the train and confront Wilford.

So, despite the assertion that action stories can't work with trains, there is one that actually works by bending the listed reason for how to make a train setting work.

>>14723498
>>14727186
>>14727189

The core problem with Kabaneri was that they abandoned the general premise of the series in two episodes. Zombie fiction has to be simple to be digestible. For example, High School of the Dead is made up of a simple combination:

>rampant zombies
>individual struggle
>constant violence
>tits and ass

You can't fuck up a simple formula like that. No, you fuck it up by making it complicated. They began exploring the setting, then the politics, then teenage character struggles, then the attack of a titan zombie, then the introduction of a "cool and mysterious" elite paramilitary Zombia Auxilia led by "cool and mysterious" bishouprince flanked by his "cool and mysterious" yankees and bitches. The list goes on and on shamelessly.

Kabaneri was supposed to stick to a simple formula:

>80s kill em all vibe
>everything you know and love is zombies
>armored train to Busan
>MC is a Space Marine who sciences the fuck out of everything and ragefucks through every other issue
>obligatory cute superpowerful girl

And that just wasn't good enough for the sponsors.

>>14727414
>simple
>when Ichiro Okouchi is on writing duty

The man makes a living spinning wheels within wheels in an avalanche of twists and revelations, what kind of fool are you to expect otherwise from anything he's involved with?

>>14727432

Jokes on you, I didn't expect anything when I was pressured to pick up the series. All my excitement evaporated in three episodes.

>>14727165
How do you know they're all the same people if everyones Anonymous

>>14727154
>His whole point is that train can't deviate from their path
Does Japan not have trains that switch tracks or go in more than one line or anything? I thought they were big on trains, you'd think someone who fucking lived with that sort of infrastructure would know better.

>>14727451

They obviously do, but the whole setup behind Kabaneri was that there was one armored train running a single track through all the surviving towns and villages as the last and only supply lifeline for humanity in Japan. No action show would survive 12 episodes being stuck on that train.

>>14727442
It's still fucking stupid to expect a simple show when ICHIRO FUCKING OKOUCHI is on series composition. He's like the biggest enemy of simplicity and straightforwardness.

>>14727414

What did they add in?

>>14727432
Most people don't care about the writing credit. Usually the director is the only name people care about unless the writer is Urobuchi or Okada.

>>14723453
>A lot of folks were impressed by Kabaneri of the Iron Fortress

Right up until the villain was introduced. Then the story went to shit and the popularity dropped off massively from what I remember.

>>14727451
King Gainer had trains and a complicated railway system. That was important to numerous enemies of the week. They understand trains and that trains switch tracks.
However, King Gainer was not set on a train but the railway was an important feature of the setting.

A train as a set piece can be restrictive as there are only so many things you can actually do on a train.

>>14727466
they and rocketnews seem to be slobbering all over araki's dick.

>>14727464
The Code Geass writer.

For fuck's sake he's the Code Geass writer how can you not know his name.

>>14727457
Okouchi is more like the king of trainwrecks.

>>14727486
I know who he is. Most people don't. Whenever I mention him in the Kabaneri threads, it just drew a blank even when I mention VVV.

>>14727496
On what website or even board because it sure as hell couldn't have been /m/ or /a/. Maybe /v/ in the right unrelated thread.

>>14727496
Fucking bullshit he was a household name and the principle factor for everyone wanting to watch VVV in an attempt to experience another round of Geass Sunday.

How can people just forget him like that, his mere involvement in any work of fiction inevitably attracts the trainwreck crowd.

>>14727496
I call bullshit because since Geass every retard on /a/ has been chasing after Geass Sundays in both Guilty Crown and VVV by completely overblowing both of those mediocre pieces of shit for meme status.

They were the prime reason people watched those shows on /a/ and /m/.

>>14726810
And thats new how? in G-Reco even he admited that he fucked up the pace of the anime

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>>14723453
>Apparently Tomino was not a fan of the series’ main setting the Kotetsujo, a heavily-armored train, because trains are “on rails, can’t deviate from their path and can’t fly,” and that doesn’t work well for an action series. Tomino continued that he’d noticed this back when he thought about using the Trans-Siberian Railway in his series Overman King Gainer.
What the fuck kind of idiotic complaint is this?

>>14727533

>G-Reco was a disaster even Tomino said it

when will this /m/eme end

>>14727540
You're the only one meming here but putting words in his mouth.

>>14727540
Niggger, are you actually fucking illiterate? Point in my post where I fucking said it was a disaster, I simply quote Tomino on the subject of pacing, something that he himself was a bit bad.

Learn to fucking read you subhuman chimp

>>14727541
>>14727542

>I only said it was bad, even Tomino said it was bad believe me

/m/emes

>>14727457
You know, I don't see what's not so simple about Kabaneri. If anything, I was kind of disappointed that Okouchi led it down a very typical path, but it wasn't something so outside of precedent or the realm of imagination that it confused me.

To put it another way, zombie stories where you end up seeing the heroes fight a "human" villain aren't exactly rare or unusual. That doesn't even up counting as non-straightforward in my book because it's happened dozens of times.

>>14727547
memes were a mistake.
-Richard Dawkins

>>14727547
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2015-04-24/yoshiyuki-tomino-admits-story-problems-in-gundam-reconguista/.87449

>>14727547
Eat shit nigger

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2015-04-24/yoshiyuki-tomino-admits-story-problems-in-gundam-reconguista/.87449

>>14727414

That's more because High School of the Dead has not reached any real stopping point and the manga might as well be cancelled after all these years without a continuation.

I can bet you anything that if they ever pick up that story and need to conclude it they'll end up going places that aren't just "fighting zombies day in and day out, repeat" for the true finale.

>>14727432
Ironically, there's very few twists in Kabaneri and not enough to make up an avalanche when you consider Okouchi already had characters mentioning Mumei's brother from the very first arc as well as having the capital city as their intended destination.

>>14727538
He thinks trains are shitty settings for action shows and cites King Gainer as a show that would have been shitty if it was focused on trains and not just making the railway a major part of the setting.

What's so confusing? The fact that he made an awful show but is criticizing Kabaneri(it actually doesnt disqualify him from doing so) or the fact that King Gainer was written by the same guy who did Kabaneri while he storyboarded and directed it?

>>14727549
It's mostly that the idea of Okouchi doing anything remotely resembling a straight line of narrative progression is laughable. This is the guy who can be handed just about any show and morph it into Twin Peaks.

There's always some sort of twist to it. Even if it's cliché, there will always be something that throws the narrative off the assumed path.

>>14727560
Highschool of the Dead is gonna be highly politicalized if it ever continues, I'm sure of it, with nationalist Japan rising from the ashes.

>>14727570
It's unclear what is Tomino's actual opinion on King Gainer. He only says that he realized trains weren't good settings for an action series while working on that show, but it's unclear whether the man believes that problem was resolved or not. Just like how it doesn't seem clear if he ever actually watched Kabaneri or was just too turned off by the setting that he went away.

I dropped Kabaneri 3 episodes in because the show got massively stupider every subsequent episode.

Just how fucked up does it get?

>>14727574
That could happen, with their cynical view of western governments and all, perhaps even mixed in with their explanation for the origin of the zombies if that's ever addressed.

>>14727573
I could agree with you in abstract, but my point is Kabaneri wasn't even half as complex as the average Resident Evil game in practice, where you also have tons of conspiracies, new viruses, old and new characters, etc. constantly being thrown around.

>>14727578
It's a dumb zombie action movie all the way through, with a final arc where the final boss is a nihilistic dude who hates his father and the hero powers up to fight him. I enjoyed it as that and had no other expectations in mind, so I got my money's worth.

>>14727460
A very standard JRPG/shonen anime climax which is apparently classified as totally anathema now for some bizarre reason.

>>14727603
Well my initial harping about the relevance of Okouchi as a staff member was in response to >>14727414 acting like the stuff that peeved them off was totally out of left field or somehow the whims of sponsors.

>>14727578
It introduces a bishie supervillain whose power is that everyone around him immediately becomes a massive dumbass. He has a carton of magic blueberry syrup that turns people into laser-spewing kaiju when injected and his right-hand man really, really likes to hit people with a stick.

It's fucking dumb.

>>14723745

THEN IT'S DEN-O TIME

>>14727665
Most of the cast was made up of dumbasses even in eps 1-3. The ability to turn people into kaiju was foreshadowed with the black smoke in ep 5 or 6, weeks before the villain showed up. Which isn't all that weird when you consider that multiple other types of zombies were being shown too.

>>14727767
The thing that finally killed me on the show was how, in practically every episode, they keep hyping up the capital as this bastion of knowledge on how to deal with the Corpses, the best ways to kill them and maybe even the chance of a cure, and then we get there and every single one of its incredibly armed and ostensibly trained occupants collectively fucking shits themselves at the sight of a single zombie. Meanwhile, Biba's sitting over in the corner with a smug look on his face, and before anyone can stop panicking long enough to put a fucking bullet in him, O NO HIS NINJAS SNUCK IN AND ARE KILLING EVERYONE. Even though they literally just showed that these people are all twitchy and paranoid as fuck.

And yeah, I know it's supposed to push the whole theme of "people can't do anything when they're ruled by fear." It's still half-assed, inconsistent and nonsensical.

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>>14727553
>>14727556
>ANN

>>14723624
I kek'd out loud irl

>>14724125
>ESL
>reading English

>TOO LONG, COULDN'T READ LOL
ftfy

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>>14725193
I think it's like a reverse george lucas thing. These plebs grew up with all the bad Gundam series so when Tomino got his pants on they think he ruined their childhood or something. I honestly don't know.

>>14727869
It literally wasn't that often, but they did bring up the capital's knowledge a number of times. It would have been more interesting to focus on that and perhaps the show would have done this if they had more episodes. However, the concept of "humanity's last sanctuary, protector of knowledge and strongest fortress" being suddenly overrun due to petty overconfidence, complacency or infighting has also been done dozens of times, so I was prepared for that to happen here as a possibility. Could have been executed better, but the idea didn't cause me any annoyance. For me it was consistent enough, albeit certainly low-brow and not smart.

>>14727665
Funnily enough, the way you describe it makes it a lot more stupidly entertaining than it probably is in reality.

>>14727895
Found the ESL.

>>14727542
>>14727556
>>14727880

Really rude and racist dude.

>>14727578
Just turn your brain off and watch the action. It's what I did. It's popcorn trash.

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>>14732273
>Just turn your brain off

no